42. Silent Disco Founder: "I didn’t want to build a company; I wanted to build a feeling" | Toby Burns

28:57Went through a few that really, again, he's very good, he's really, really good. That's really important is it operations yeah i mean we've got a small team really and i like to have a smaller team working 100 as a teams than a team where you've got a players and c players because what happens is you know some people aren't pulling their way the a players get annoyed because the c players are working 50 and then the a players want to leave because they like you know competition and working as a team so i think it's a really fine balance with a team creative for our senior team our marketing managers our warehouse managers you know bringing new ideas innovation you know not all the ideas come from me the best ideas come from the team i think with the sales team and the warehouse assistants you know it's a more simplified role but finding people that want to work and want to graft, I've found increasingly more difficult over the past three, four, five years.

30:08The recruitment of those people. The recruitment. So talk me through that. What do you find? I think, one, it's difficult to find good, loyal people. You know, people have a huge turnaround of staff now. And I think since COVID, the whole flexible working element, you know, I'm a firm believer of boots on the ground in the office. That's where creativity comes from. You get the camaraderie. You create the environment that you want to work in. And we are a fun young company. So there's always music playing. We're a musical company. We try and make it fun and exciting in the office for the staff.

30:46But I've interviewed people where, you know, I will come and work for you, but I want to do two days at home. Well, that's not in the job description. We're five days in the office. Yeah, yeah. Well, if you do want me to come and work for you, and I'm like, it sounds like you're doing me a favor than me offering you a job. So you don't offer people a job. But look, we could. I think that might be changing a bit now because. Yeah, yeah, definitely is. Because people can see that there are fewer and fewer opportunities offering that. But it's also. And employers and entrepreneurs want people in more.

31:18But I don't know how you've found in your personal businesses, but the cost of recruiting somebody now, and I don't want to go too political, but the cost to employ someone is huge now. You know, I often say you've got to add 10 % if you're offering 30 grand. You know, really it's costing us 36 grand with all the extra taxes and the AYE and the NI and everything like that. It's, you know, it might be a 30 grand roll, but actually the cost to the business is 36 with all the taxes that they add on to it. Well, yeah, the NI is now 15 % pretty much. So it's tough to employ good people at what the business can afford to do.

32:06And there is, as entrepreneurs, as business owners, a balancing act. And I track my turnover to labor ratio. That's something we're really, one of the KPIs that we track. And as we said, there's peaks and troughs of the business. So there's a real balancing. So you feel that's really under pressure then at the moment, the turnover to labour ratio. It's under pressure because it's our peak period. And what's caused that, in your view? Well, we need more. We're in an over-trading stage at this time of year. So you need more people. Need more people, but they have to be on a temporary basis because when it gets to November, that will naturally drop down because we're at peaks and troughs.

32:50We're still busy, but not to the extent that we are now. But that's a challenge for any business, And it's my job to dilute the year to fill those troughs with other businesses. And as I said, we have our photo booth rental, our karaoke. So we've managed to fill those peaks and troughs slightly throughout the year. So the team are still busy all year round. Do you see a sort of issue around this, though, in terms of costs going up and people maybe less keen to come in? There's a combination of things happening that make it harder to run the business. There's a combination. I mean, we won't go political, but it's making it very, very hard for business owners.

33:36And this is why I've got so many friends and entrepreneurs that have moved out the UK now, because I call them turnover taxes. 50 to 55 % of our turnover goes to Rachel Thieves, I call her. But we won't go political. You may want to cut that out. We'll see. You can say what you like. There's free speech in this podcast. But I hope that's a nugget that people swipe and deploy. No. You know, but 55 % of our turnover goes on different taxes. You know. 55%. Yeah. Business rates. You know, the VAT, the PAYE, we're a rental business. The VAT really hurts us. We're not buying and selling goods. We're buying the goods and renting them out.

34:21So cost of sales in terms of that is really affected and we have really high VAT returns. So what would you like to see happen? Not going political, but if that could be changed in some way, if you had a magic wand, Toby, what would you want to have? My view is that entrepreneurs or a business owner should be in government. Right. And I really do think that a business person, and we won't go across the pond, but I do think that having a business person running the country, an entrepreneur, will be much better for our growth. And I think for small businesses, I'm a big believer in this, tax on profit, not turnover.

35:03let a company who's put all their eggs into one basket they're starting a company they've probably put savings maybe their house on the line at least make them earn a profit before you take it right no because i think the growth of that and i don't mind paying more corporation tax but tax me on profit only 25 you'd pay you think that could go up and other corporation tax i'd pay 40 but tax me on profit and not turnover right you know and i think that's really really important because there's so many taxes you've got there we we said the ni the paye business rates um all of the business that the corporation taxes so many different taxes that it's actually in between for us 50 and 55 and when you actually break it down for a business i guarantee it's around the 50 % that you're actually paying out you know if you're in that top 3 % of earning over 250 grand or whatever and I think a lot of people won't employ people or they won't go above that VAT threshold you know because they're earning more money in their pocket earning 85 grand than earning 100 grand so they're better off staying as a sole trader rather than creating a business that gives jobs to people but if we tax people on profit and not turnover people would take take the risk, employ people and grow a business because they're not taking it all before you've earned any, you know, any decent profit.

36:30So I would pay more. So I'm also, I'm really passionate about the educational system. And we touched on this in the, in the pre-chat chat, I call it. But I think the educational system as it stands is set up to fail children. And as a child that's about to go into full-time education, I think it's set up for the industrial age still. And you're taught to, you know, go get a job. You'll be, go to university, you'll get a job. You'll be in that job 40 years and you'll retire. That doesn't happen anymore. You know, and I'm really a huge fan of AI and I'm sure you may deploy it in your business. I think we all deploy it in everyday life automatically now.

37:19But AI is going to take jobs. And I say, like, even on the doctor front, you could go to uni, train for seven years to be a doctor. But I do think they'll have AI in a ward, monitoring all the monitoring stations. And then you just have one doctor instead of four to check the monitoring to see if, you know, there's any problems with any of them. even doctors yeah and i really do think ai is going to affect it so i'm doing a lot of keynotes or i'm trying to do more it's the reason i'm doing a lot more podcasts for personal brands but also as a lead magnet you know different team you know if someone wanted to come and work for us there's a big picture of content marketing as you know but speaking in colleges i'm like go set up a business because i do think that um young kids that want to start a business and with ai ai is going to enable people to create a business super quickly earn money from it sell the business and then go again with the assistance of ai and i don't know if you follow daniel priestly at all have you heard daniel priestly the entrepreneur he talks about it all the time with education and that even I've used a great bit of AI where I've created apps and websites in the past.

38:41Same with you, where you may spend 20 grand, 30 grand on a website and it takes three months to build it. AI now, I can literally type in what I want, how I want it to look, what features. And I watch this AI program code me in front of my eyes in 15 minutes, a whole website. And these kids and stuff, I do think there has to be some reform in education that the schools teach them how to use AI. It's not going anywhere. We've got to embrace it. We've got to use it to our strengths. It's not all going to be built to destroy the world. There's a lot of good that can happen, and I think it will replace a lot of jobs.

39:20So I do think we should be teaching in business studies, in IT, in the technology classes, the use of ai and how you can create websites create businesses that you can build a business and i think there'll be a much higher turnover of businesses being created and sold and created and sold because this industrial revolution which is what the educational sector is based on um i've got so many friends that have been in jobs like 20 years or 25 years and then they're just made redundant like that there's no loyalty yeah you know if a business has to skim the fat so i think you've got to create your own economy and your own destiny and ai will allow you to do that and my even my three-year-old daughter she's three years old and i've got her maybe silly of me to do so but i think to have that skill like these kids can like navigate a phone What have you done?

40:19We've got a lot. Kids can navigate phones, iPads. A notification will come up on my phone. She's swiped it, cleared it. She's three years old. And we don't give her a phone or watch TV unless it's the weekend. We're quite strict with that. But at the weekend, I might get chat GPT. And I'll say, what do you want your bedtime story to be tonight? And we'll find your story. And it was like, I want, I use this example. I want Spider-Man on a jet ski on holiday. so I put it in to write me a bedtime story about Batman on a jet ski. This is a new use of it. I haven't heard. This is great. Literally, and in five seconds, it's given me a bedtime story about Batman on a jet ski.

41:01I've read it to my daughter, and she has used her creativity, her mind of not, and I think books are important. She's got loads of books. But for her to be able to use her creativity at three years old to create what she wants that's in her mind, and we've got the AI tools to do that. I think that's amazing. It's a bit like going back to what you're doing with the silent disco. You're choosing your own disco tracks. Choosing your own story. Choose your own story. I never read GPT. I'm a very visual learner. I'm not good at reading books like e-books. I'm good at audio books. I'm good at, I'm a visual learner.

41:35I can remember stuff. Actually taking it in, reading it off a paper book, I find really difficult. So I try and give her that skill because I wasn't good at it. but creativity and using AI when she is in school I want her to be taught how to use the different AI tools because you know I do think in 10-15 years look where we've come in the last 10 years and with the emergence of AI I just think you have to embrace it and you have to use it to your strengths so you're you said you're doing keynotes that you're obviously devoting some time to this but what what's is the key message of the keynote that school should be embracing ai or they should be embracing entrepreneurialism or both or both both both look we touch on many things you know i say be curious be different if you're different it's a good thing it's not but you know it's almost looked at if you're disrupting the classroom you're sent to detention but your mind's just working differently and i was one of these and most entrepreneurs are dyslexic or ADHD, a big majority of them.

42:45No, no, no, that's been a common theme on the podcast. You know, Elon Musk, he's very weird. You know, you look at Richard Branson, highly dyslexic. Some of these amazing entrepreneurs have had, you know, troubles in school. And they leave school and they go create a business. So when, you know, you are disrupted in school and then you're put into tension or excluded, I think you've actually got to embrace those kids a little bit more because they are different. and their minds obviously working differently, and put them to use. Don't punish them for it. Yeah, so flag them as future entrepreneurs and give them a different program, which would teach them some of these things.

43:21Exactly. But it doesn't seem that business people are likely to be running the country, does it? Because there don't seem to be many in Parliament. Because they're too busy running their businesses, maybe. I don't know. The one thing I always find hilarious is a government reshuffle. Right. I just find it hilarious, obviously. You've got the health minister, you know the finance minister I want to find out why you find it let's say you're in a position where you've got a cleaner a nanny a gardener a chauffeur that's like me saying right that's like me saying right the gardener you're now the chef the chef is now the nanny you know you're shuffling them all around but they've got no experience in that particular field They're not experts in their field.

44:11No, they're not experts. So when they do a government reshuffle, I find it hilarious that they're literally moving the gardener to the kitchen, the kitchen to the chauffeur, and they've got no experience in that field. And I really do think that the government should have the expert in their field at the head of that department. So someone who really knows about health running the health department, someone who knows about business running the trade department. An ex-lawyer or, you know, the transport minister is now a head of the NHS. That makes zero sense from a business point of view in terms of being an MP, of how they can then run that, you know, to the best of its ability when they've got no experience in their fields.

44:55So do you think it's a case of being over-promoted then? Or just a poor recruitment? The way it works, I just think, is failed. Yeah. So it's a failed system. It's a failed system. the jiv though so it's a failed system yeah but i look i say to my team we are our own economy we can't control what's going on on the outside we can only control what's going on within our business so we have to create our own economy create the own our own environment that we want to work in and be our own bank you know don't rely on the bank be our own bank and decide what we're going to do to grow our business because we can't rely on what happens outside um and although you know across the pond there are many things that are wild and people don't agree with you do have a businessman running a country who's ran multiple businesses very successfully uh and i think he is going to make a positive change for america in a business sense you know So you look at the facts and figures coming out, he's making a difference.

46:01So I do think that we should have entrepreneurs that have retired or chairs now coming into government to really help. And you've got loads in the Lords, but I think you need them at the head of the tree. They should be brought in more from the Lords. Or the Lords is underused, maybe. Yeah. And I think they've got to be brought in. We talk about reforming the Lords, but that might be one useful way of doing it. The departments use those people more. But I think there has to be a shift there because I think lots of people are moving abroad. We opened in Dubai in 2023. So we've got a very small operation there compared to the UK.

46:43But I think when I opened that, I was just, at that point, so frustrated. Really? With all the taxes. I was like, well, I knew quite a few people who had done it. That was the last government that frustrated you, and now this one as well. Yeah. I'm feeling frustrated. We all thought the grass was greener. Many of us may have shared that view. There's not much grass in Dubai. But it's certainly not greener. And obviously, there's talks about October with further taxes. Further tax rises. And I think that's really going to hurt the working people. And I class myself as a working person. and I graft every day.

47:24So does my team. So does my wife. So I think it really does, it will cause an effect. And I just think they've got the strategy wrong in that respect. If you want to have growth, so many people I know have left. So many. My brother-in-law left for Dubai. He's opened his business out there. Right. I know just so many people leaving because it's not attractive right now. No, and that makes the situation worse because there are fewer people to tax. Yeah. So it becomes a bit of a doom loop if we're not careful. Yeah, it's a real problem that I think may be addressed in a couple of years at the next general election and you give someone else a go.

48:06But I really do think it comes down to if you can put some business-like entrepreneurial people at the top that know how to run a business, how to skim the fat, really be profitable. I think that would make... When you look at the huge scale of public expenditure and you think, you know, if you're running a business and it's making a loss or heading in the wrong direction, you look at how you cut costs. And you might take 5 % off or 10%. But I mean, it might be hard, but you can do it. I mean, you put your mind to it and you do it. It seems like in this space, it's just, oh no, we can't do anything.

48:40No. And we'll just have table 10. Yeah, but it's like us going, we're not as profitable this year. So I'm going to raise our prices 30%. Yeah. And our customers, you know, going, hold on. I'm not going to, we're happy with 5%. Yeah. But you know, it's always on the customer and that's always on us as the, as the public to take the hit. Well, actually, no, you need to skim the fat, be more efficient, have someone business like that can be more efficient, a bit like the whole Elon Musk going in and trying to be there efficient. Yeah. That was never going to work. That was like a failed marriage, that.

49:18To Starlink, which is doing quite well, I think, from all accounts. I think that he dropped again. 30 billion or something. But it dropped again, didn't it? Because he's going to open his own political party. Oh, is he? The share price in Tesla dropped right down again. I'm a Starlink customer. I think that's a really good series. I should do that because I live very remote. If you live in a remote place like I do in Wilshire, it's really good. I have looked at that. So maybe I will. I'm a big Tesla fan anyway, being a customer. But Starlink is a great bit of kit. It's an amazing business. Yeah, amazing business.

49:50So I would agree. I would say if I was asked if you could do one thing to improve the situation, it would be make the UK the best place to start and build a business in the world. And you have a fighting chance of attracting people and creating the wealth that we then need to spend on all these other services. Yeah. But if you just keep squeezing the orange that's there, it will run out of juice and you'll just be left with a few bits. And that's no good at all. You need to plant orange groves by bringing in new entrepreneurs. I could move abroad. And a lot of people have said, would you go to Dubai?

50:26We have a business there. And it's not for me. One, that heat. I love the heat, but that's another level of heat. I'd say. But I could. I've been there in the summer. It's very hot. Well, China a few years. That was bloody hot as well. But I was, you know, I say I could move, but I'm a big fan of UK business. I think we have incredible stuff here. We've got an amazing financial hub. You know, I just drove past Canary Wolf. It's buzzing. We've got a great financial hub. We've got an amazing law system as well, believe it or not. You know, we've got a great law system and systems and processes in place.

51:05We've got the core right here of a great, great country for business. But if you just keep taxing people so they don't have money to spend, there will be nothing left. I think that needs to be the goal to make it a great country for business because that's what creates the wealth. And I've got other ideas around philanthropy companies where a certain part of the shareholding is held by foundations that can then be spent on social and community causes. I think a lot more can be done. I mean, Britain is a trading nation. It's always thrived as a business nation. If it's not going to do that, there's not much left for it to do.

51:43Well, we don't do much import-export, really. We're not a huge manufacturing company. I think there's so much potential, but I just wish we gave the incentives. And I use an example from China, because I'm a big fan of China. Okay, some of their ways are a bit strange and people think they're spying on you. But actually, in my opinion, they get a lot of things right. And one of the things that I just find fascinating for businesses is any company that does a trade show or an expo, any goods they export from that trade show, they get a 1 % rebate off their tax bill from the government. So they get a big pat on the back.

52:29Well done. You've done a trade show. You've exported goods. Whatever the value of those goods are that they've exported, it's 1 % off those goods off their tax bill. Just that tiny incentives. You're growing the economy. We'll give you 1%. That could be quite a lot of money when it comes to it. And I think, well done. What if we did that here on exports? We're not a huge exporting country, but those little incentives for businesses to actually want to do it, want to grow, want to export, want to make more money. If they were just to get something back rather than taken, it would make a lot more people do it.

53:09That word incentives, I think, is key to this. I mean, we as business people know that you need to make sure your team is motivated and energized around what we're trying to do, and that's a really important part of it, the incentives, right? We're always looking at how to improve and tweak them, and there's not enough thought around that, I don't think. I would agree with you. So I like your expression, we are our own economy. I once met a man, an amazing man called Geoffrey Langlands, who was a teacher. And he was a teacher in Pakistan, in northern Pakistan. And he had been a soldier in the Indian Army.

53:42And after independence, just stayed there because he didn't have a family in England, became a teacher. And I remember him saying to me, he said, well, Pakistan might be in a lot of trouble, but my bit of Pakistan, namely the school he ran, that's going to be really good. And listening to you talk about, you know, we are our own economy, your business reminded me of that. We have control over a certain amount of things that we can make really good, regardless of what's going on more widely. And I was thinking about that and what you're saying. I was thinking, you know, if you were to go back to the beginning when you started out, is there anything you'd have done differently?

54:17Is there anything, how you approach things you think that would have made your economy better or you're going to do now? What's on your mind, Toby? I think experience really, experience gives you knowledge and the knowledge is ultimately power. I think I didn't listen to a few people early on. And one of the bits of advice I was given, and I listened to one of them, was the first people you should hire is a bookkeeper and a PA. Right. And I got the bookkeeper. That was my first member of staff. Didn't have anybody. But I did have a bookkeeper because I didn't want to chase invoices. It was boring and a waste of my time when I can be bringing in sales.

54:58I hated all the admin-y side, so the bookkeeper did it. The PA I only got about three years ago, really, so seven years into the journey. And I wish, looking back, I did that earlier. And someone told me to do it earlier, another entrepreneur. So why is that? Because they give you time. Right. They give you time back, which now is precious time that I could have had at the beginning, which I now have. Can you deal with this? Can you deal with the electricity's up for renewal? Whatever it might be, she will do it for me. And it gives me all that time back. Insurances. We have so many different insurances.

55:43That's another tax, the insurance premium tax. another crazy tax on all of our insurance to adding it to our list but even insurances I could spend an hour you know doing comparisons and getting all our fleet of vehicles insured she does all of that so it gives me and that's just a very small part of what she does but giving me all that time back means I can focus or a business owner can focus their energy on growing the business or getting sales so I never use the word regret or anything these are all no these are learning these are learning and experience and knowledge but i do wish that i had a pa earlier on because i would have had more time to maybe grow uh quicker or in a different way or just had more time to do other things but i'm very content that you know some some business owners want an absolute monster of a business you know 50 million, 100 million pound exit.

56:45And they've got VCs involved. They're scaling huge with other people's money. And some people want to do that. Some people like a lifestyle business that gives them a really nice lifestyle. They can go on their four holidays a year. And I'm somewhere in between that I've never borrowed any money apart from for properties. Everything has been self-funded through the profits of the business. And I always had a rule from when I started that 50 % of the profits would go into property and 50 % would go back into the company, whether that's new products, R &D, team. You know, they're the biggest investment is your team.

57:28And that was always sort of the rule in my head. Why did you choose that rule? Why did you want to put money into property? So from a really young age, and I touched on it, 15, 16, I always surrounded myself with very successful people. And there's a book by Jim Rowe, which you may have read. And he always said, you will become the average of the five people you surround yourself with. So if you surround yourself with five pro golfers and you're rubbish at golf, after a period of time, you will become better at golf. because you've surrounded yourself. As long as you're playing golf with them rather than in the pub or something.

58:07I mean, I'm not a big golf fan. But you were getting a lot of... This is an interesting insight for a 15-year-old to have. So I surrounded myself with ultra-successful people. Where'd you get that idea from that book? That book I only read a few years back. So what made you think at that early age that... Because you were smirier to something. This is really good advice for people listening. You know, if you see someone with a nice car, you go, how did they get that? What do they do? maybe our entrepreneurial minds, I always think we are wired up a bit different to most people. You know, the minute we wake up, the minute we go to sleep, we're thinking about business.

58:45We are wired up differently. And not everyone can just be an entrepreneur. You're wired up different. So, you know, I would see aspirations, you know, I'd love to have a, you know, by the time I'm 40 to be that secure and not have to worry for my children. I'm 15. I'm not thinking about children yet, but I'm already thinking, planning for the future. And there's a common trend, in my opinion, with every entrepreneur that I've met, uber successful entrepreneur, they all have vast amount of property from my experience. So you saw these older entrepreneurs when you were 15 had accumulated property.

59:25They've all got property. The real wealth is in assets. And I say for a business owner now, if you don't own assets, I think you're screwed with how the government are taxing you. I think if you don't own assets for long-term wealth, you need it for stability and for wealth, essentially. So this is like your insurance in a way. Insurance, yeah. You know, I don't want to be working until I'm 70. Right. Really. I'm sure as an entrepreneur, I'll be dabbling in lots of things till I drop. I suspect you might. I think entrepreneurs are like artists. They never really stop. But, you know, the real hard graft, you want to be able to be in a position if you wanted to, to go on a 30-day cruise, whatever it might, you know, tickle your fancy.

1:00:19and a lot of these entrepreneurs had some had residential some had commercial and i listened to lots of advice i talked to these people i want to know i want to get all this knowledge knowledge is power so when you're 15 you just say will you ask questions will you have a chat with me about what you do or that so you went even now yeah even now if i meet someone really successful yeah i'm asking as many questions as i can you know that's what i'm doing on this podcast you know a week after week we are getting nuggets of information and you're sharing really interesting insights i always ask um two questions at the end of my podcast um the first there's a clue on the wall um the first is and and this is important to me is what is it that gets you up on a monday morning my what really gets me up and i think happiness you know the definition of happiness changes uh throughout a business career and i think at the start is it's money you know money's gonna make me happy and then you soon realize as time goes on money doesn't make you happy it gives you opportunities but it certainly doesn't um buy happiness but i think family and it sounds cliche but family does get you up in the morning you want to support them give them the best life possible but i also tell my wife i could work from home every day i don't like golf i could spend two days on a golf course and go in a couple of days a week but i am up i'm out the door at quarter to seven i walk the dog i'm in the office by half eight and i love being there with the team the team get me up in the morning as well as family or my daughter jumping on me um but i like to go into the office i like the creativity the ideas the problem solving that excites me i don't have to do it i have a team there but i genuinely love going in and i think as long as you love what you do you will get up in the morning and go to bed late because you're living and breathing what you love doing you'll love mondays if you love what you do yeah and i love a monday because it's a new week and i'm like what do i want to achieve this week i almost do a swot analysis on a monday of like what you know what were the threats last week what were the opportunities that we can work on this week a monday for me is is a reset button okay we've got five days not a lot of our you You know, we're in the office eight hours a day.

1:02:53We've got 40 hours. What can we achieve in 40 hours of work this week in the office? I mean, I do stupid long days still, as any entrepreneur does. But what can we achieve as a team? And I think Mondays are a reset button just to look at last week, look at this week, have a plan, make those 1 % improvements. And then the following Monday, you'll be 1 % up on last week. Exactly. I like that, the reset button. and then the last question is from my book Why You 101 Interview Questions You'll Never Fear Again which is an interview book we did 15 years ago now no no that's not correct an interview book we did 10 years ago it has several editions so this question is one of the fateful 15 as it's described and it's where do you see yourself in five years time such a have you had anyone say like on a beach somewhere Well, you can say that.

1:03:49Yeah. I would be very, very bored. I would love to be, you know, these baby steps I think are important. We'd love to be in our new unit, much bigger unit. We're working on some businesses' ideas at the moment, new ones. And I have an idea of turnover of where I want that to be in five years because I think business owners really underestimate what they can do in five years and overestimate what they can do in one. so we tend to do our business planning in five or ten year stints right because i think that's really important that the business owners you know really do overestimate what they can do in a year but underestimate in in that's something you've observed yeah so we go right if we've got something to work for in five years in terms of turnover then we can work that backwards what do we need to do year by year month on month to achieve that so we have some targets in terms of figures that we want to be at in five years um if you grow your turnover at 15 a year you'll double it in five years yeah which is doable isn't it it's doable we want to go a bit further than that we've got bigger ambitions i'm pleased to hear it and if if i use my sort of you know um my view of buying a property once a year by five years time we should have another commercial units there we go.

1:05:12Very good. Well, I wish you every success with that, Toby. Thanks so much for coming in to talk to me today. Thanks for having me. I really enjoyed the conversation. Thank you. Thank you.

1:05:23Thank you, Toby, for joining me on All About Business. I'm your host, James Reed, Chairman and CEO of Reed, a family-run recruitment and philanthropy company. If you'd like to find out more about Reed, Toby Burns, or the Silent Disco Company, all links are in the show notes. See you next time.