59. From rejection to £100m deals: The Netflix pitch that changed British TV | Andy Harries OBE

34:12It's sensible. He wanted to, you know, God damn it. Why don't I just do it? And people would say, go on, Andy, go do it. You know.

34:20And so we did. So it was 18 years ago. This was 18 years ago. Exactly. So we set it up. Left bank pictures. Why do you call it that? Yeah, it's a good question. I couldn't decide for many months about what to call it. And it was a sort of, it was a shower moment. It was a bit of another light bulb moment. I am prone to these. I mean, you'll laugh. It's left because I politically lean left rather than right. Right. If you get a whole university, it can possibly be. I shouldn't say right. Okay. Left it is. Yeah, yeah, go on. That was one thing. The second thing was bank suggests security, reliability, safety, and that's very important.

35:04So I was really thinking about the image of the company. What was the name and what you can project was really important. So I gave a lot of thought to that because I knew you're setting up a company and people, what's the name? So you've got Head and Heart in there. You've got Head and Heart with Left Bank. Yeah, exactly, exactly. So that was basically it. So it was the kind of Left Bank. And, of course, the Left Bank is the arty party part of Paris, which we all like to swing down galleries and stuff like that. So it felt it had a resonance of familiarity. and and um i was very struck by a friend of mine who had left whole university around the same time as me and he had set up a what he did he had a i don't know how why but he had a van a white van and so he used to move a lot of a few of us when we left university he'd do the removals i'll load up the van anyway this led to setting up a removals business in london and he called he decided to put two things together Cadogan Square and the Tate Gallery and he called it Cadogan Tate that's quite a famous removal company exactly but you see phone them they've been around for years it must be they called Cadogan do you know what I mean it was just a guy from Hull University it's a bit like the Bernstein's it's just another charter from Hull good for him as well so I think Left Bank was that I have always remembered that story.

36:25And I thought, that's what I need, that sort of familiarity. So people feel it's a company that absolutely. Because the thing about if people are going to, you know, broadcasters are going to give you some serious money, they need to be reassured that you are. And you thought the word bank would help with that. That's interesting. And it did. It did. I think it did. You can never tell. So the idea of the company was Left Bank Limited and Left Bank Pictures, and it would, we were set out to be, to make ambitious global drama, drama for an international marketplace, because that's where I thought it was going, because I could see, I couldn't see the streamers.

37:02I mean, I'm not that far-sighted, but I definitely could see the need to grow drama in a bigger way that would work in different countries around the world. That's what I got a taste for. Right. Doing the Prime Suspects and Granada. So what did you start off with? Well, one of the very early shows was Ken Branagh in Wallander, which was a bunch of books that had not been made. There were a bunch of detective books in Sweden. They were very good books, actually. And someone called me up and said, would I be interested? And my father-in-law is Michael Frayn, and he was a big fan of the writer. And it wasn't really Michael's thing, but I had remembered.

37:42This is where you take sort of... What is it? it's a network of different inferences and moments. So around this time, Michael was writing a play called Copenhagen, which is one of his best plays. And so he's spending a lot of time in Denmark. And he called in on the way back from the airport to our house and dropped one of Henning Menkel's, he's the novelist, books off and said, I don't really read crime novels normally, but this writer is really extraordinary. You should have a look. And at the same time, this producer called me from Denmark say, he'd got the rights, would I be interested? And I just thought, there's a confluence here.

38:22You know, and confluence is really interesting, I think. And it's confluence and instinct combines, I think, bang. I don't know why, you've got to get in there, bang. And so that was, so that had the raw material. I don't know quite what it was that made me reach for Ken Branagh. I didn't, I knew Ken's assistant quite well. I just suddenly thought I was just thinking about trying to think about who would do it who would make a difference and Ken was having one of those periods where he slipped away a little bit from visibility you know I don't mean that he was in the doldrums I don't think he was at all but he hadn't done anything desperately high profile for a while and I called up the assistant and I said is there by any chance do you think Ken would in any way be interested in doing this and she said well funny enough he does like these novels and I said, do you think you'd meet me for a drink?

39:18I promise you, we met in the pub for 20 minutes. We shook hands and that was it. Fantastic. I said, look, just be our partner. We'll just shake hands. There's no need for, I mean, obviously we paid him well. But it wasn't about trying to, I think when you have a chance to work with key or great talent, you've just got to put yourself on the line and say, right, let's do this as partners. We'll work together. It's your show as much as mine. We're going to make it with you and for you and all that kind of stuff. We'll give you full support and bang. But I'm really interested in listening to your view on it and how the character should be.

39:50I mean, you're dealing with someone like Ken. He's proper. He's really proper. You know, incredibly impressive experience to work with him. And we did four series of it. It was fantastic. So that really got your business. Really got business, yeah. And then I did another show, which really – the funny thing is that Wallander was good. It was for the BBC and it sold well around the world. So it was everything I wanted to make. Cinematic television. That was the key phrase that I would drop everywhere. Cinematic television, which is really just about having ambition, to be honest with you. It's just shooting it well, using the best technicians you can and the best directors you can find and having ambition.

40:23Don't start here when you can start here. Start here. Let's start higher. Let's just go even higher. Let's start. Let's blue screen what you think we could, if all the stars aligned, could we achieve? Well, that's when we're going to start. And then maybe finish even higher. Who knows? Aim high. Absolutely. that's your motto no i'm hearing it makes complete sense to me yeah no i've been a bit i'm a bit obsessive but i mean why not what's cinematic television cinematic television but so the other rather bizarre and i've told the story a few times but it was was involved a book that i picked up uh in an airport on the way to see peter morgan for some project or other when a plane is delayed or what have you i don't i usually just go and stand in the bookshop and just look and just let whatever is in front of me, circle in front of my eyes.

41:10Just see if something falls out, something catches. But you're kind of doing this because you're looking for an idea. Yeah, just looking for anything. Is there a story here that might make cinematic television? Absolutely. And you know there is. Yeah, there will be some way. Right in front of my eyes on this very particular occasion was this book all packed up, all piled up, which was an action thriller and it was called Strike Back. And I think the tagline was, you know, a Sky TV reporter is kidnapped by the Mujahideen, something like that. Picked it up, bought it, bunged it in my rucksack and went off.

41:49Never read it. So three or four weeks after the trip to Austria, I suddenly realized I had this meeting at Sky Television. The head of drama, I really liked her. She was smashing it. She was sort of a pal, but she'd never commissioned anything because I didn't have much money at that time. so I didn't really expect to be selling anything I just go in have a natter have a bit of a gossip have a coffee with her and go home but I did remember I had the sky book so I just threw it into the briefcase and um went to meet her anyway we chit-chatted away about 10 or 15 minutes and she suddenly said listen listen great news great news I've got money it's got to be a book and something entertaining and and or maybe even action I said I said stop there stop there pulled the book out this is it this is your new series she said that's great what is it I said what's the story I said you know it's just don't worry about the story and she went next door and came back with an order of 10 shows really yeah and then you had to read the book no I never read the book it's not my job to read the book it doesn't matter what happened next then how did you make the show you know what of course I rushed out of the meeting first call was to my lawyer right I said Charlie he's called Charlie that's a lovely Charlie he's been working for a long time I said Charlie I don't care what you're doing drop everything ring this writer's agent immediately and buy the rights don't take no for an answer and close today please anyway we got it so it was a bit hairy so I was selling a book I didn't even have never mind I haven't read yeah anyway I've told that story you have to take a leap here you have to take a leap but that series went on to eight series and we and we did it with HBO not the first series but HBO came in on the second and then it ran for eight series.

43:32That's what made Left Bank all the money. And when we sold initially to Sony after four years, it was Strike Back that had driven the old bottom line up to make us very viable. So from 2007 to 11, you were making Strike Back. Yeah, I was making loads of shows, but the Strike Back was the one that made the money. And then in 2011, Sony came in and bought a stake in your business. Well, that sort of rather odd thing happened, actually, because, you know, I'm going to be honest. We started Lifeback with three people, four people, three or four people. I mean, that was it. And, you know, we had an absolutely hard line rule.

44:11No lunches, no taxes, no expenses. And we all paid ourselves, I don't know, 100 ,000 or 125 ,000, whatever it was. That's what I was paid. You had, we had just, you know, no real development money. or if we were going to spend anything, it was almost spending our own money. Well, it was our own money. But I sold 25 % of the company to kick it off to the BBC for a million quid. So we were sort of worth four million quid from kickoff point. So that was the money you had to finance what you were doing. So we had a million quid to keep us going for as long as we could. And a million quid doesn't really go very far.

44:47Not even paying people. No, no. And your offices and everything. so we it took us about six eight months I think before we got a commission we got one at ITV we got Wallander, we got a couple of other things and then we got a strike back I think year two or three I forget now so the first couple of years were very testing but then it started to accelerate very quickly and then I suddenly got a call after four years I had not really thought about this at all actually, maybe it was Canal Blues It doesn't matter. Anyway, these French guys rang up. Could they come and have a meet? They were interested in our company.

45:25I said, yeah, sure. You know, pop in. They popped in and said, look, you know, we're interested in buying you. And I nearly fell off the chair. I said, why do you want to do that? He said, well, you're obviously making a lot of shows. You must be making a lot of money. We haven't seen your books, but we assume you are. I said, well, you know, I don't know, I guess. Anyway, this puzzled me a little bit. And then another couple of people rang me up. And I was so sort of consumed with the shows. It wasn't that I didn't know what was going on. I did know what was going on, but I hadn't really ever thought about selling the company, to be truthful.

45:56I just wanted a company that I could make the shows without, not without interference either. I just wanted to make the shows in an environment that would be creative and would be supportive as opposed to challenging. So I went along to see a very wonderful lawyer, Mark, and I said, I'm a bit puzzled. All these people keep ringing me up. He said, oh, well, let me look at your figures. Got the figures up. He said, well, your EBIT is going to be$4 million this year. I said, yeah, well, that's quite good, isn't it? He said, well, it means you're worth$40 million. I said, what? what did you say it's about 10 maybe you know 8 to 10 but let's assume 10 yeah it's about 40 minutes I just Jesus so you were surprised at this I just hadn't even thought about it and then so then we went into this so I thought when I went back and obviously talked to the troops I said what do you think I mean they all had it I mean I wasn't the sole I mean I wasn't the BBC at 25 % of the other 75 % pretty well everyone who had started with me He had a decent chunk, anyway.

47:07I said, what do you think? I mean, what's the advantage and what's the disadvantage? Well, the advantage was twofold. One, obviously, you would get a certain amount of money, which was obviously good. And it had been quite hard times. The other one, really, to be honest with you, was that the business was developing internationally quite fast. And an American partner was something that seemed to make a lot of sense. You can't work in America without partnering in America. They are not interested. I mean, the Americans are very, you know, I'd learned that long ago in going to America. You've got to partner up with Americans.

47:45They're not going to let you come in and take money out of their patch unless they're going to get a hefty chump. Fair dues, you know. And so it did seem to be not a bad idea that we should perhaps entertain this. And then, you know, one thing led to another. And obviously we appointed somebody to help to sell the company. and this was a fairly familiar route for production companies we weren't the first to sell and eventually after there was a lot of interest it was quite a process but an interesting process and then eventually Sony bought the company and that was good in every respect really.

48:21Did they buy out the BBC as well? They bought the BBC out they gave the BBC back. So they got a good return on their investment. 10 million in four years I thought it was damn decent of them. Yeah. Damn decent. They must love you. But the point was Sony were buying it over five years. So there wasn't any real immediate change. But Sony, I mean, I think of Sony as a Japanese film, but Sony have a huge, obviously, studios in America, Columbia Pictures. Yeah, no, it's intimate. So you think of it as the American part of Sony that bought you. Yeah, exactly. The big studios in the US. I mean, it's a big company.

48:55I mean, it's not one of the biggest studios. Well, it's one of the smaller studios, but it's still a pretty big company. Sure. And, of course, all the electronics and all that kind of stuff. They were good. And actually, I think there's no question that our partnership with Sony, which it was a partnership at that time, essentially, was vital in underwriting the Crown deal with Netflix. So tell me about that, because Netflix was sort of just emerging. From my perspective, your show The Crown was the first thing I watched on Netflix. So this sort of came in the UK, at least. they used the crowns as a hook didn't they to get us signed up to that that's exactly why we got such a hefty so how did that all come about what happened well basically what happened so in terms of the show it was an extension of my relationship with Peter Morgan so we had done the Queen which was Granada was the last thing I had done at Granada oh ITV then Peter did a few other things but we did some stuff together but not very much until after I had sold the company Peter had some reservations about working for me i never really quite understood that but anyway let's he he felt it was it was uneasy about working for working working for left bank for some reason or other but when i sold the company to sony he completely relaxed and said oh that's okay i'll work with you i said fine so one thing led to another first he he wanted to do a play uh called the audience which was a sort of spin-off essentially of the crown i saw it yeah explain what it was well it was essentially peter had become obsessed with the private sessions between the prime minister of the Queen because there's no recorded material.

50:31Prime Ministers have always sort of agreed never to write about what they discussed with the Queen and the Queen obviously has never published anything either. So in essentially, those meetings are entirely unknown what ever transpired. So that's sort of perfect for a writer who can make the whole thing up. And Peter likes to do that. But he has a very good instinct about what was properly said or what might have been said. I remember the Queen like Harold Wilson in the play. Well, I think that's true. I mean, it is true. I mean, so what Peter does is draw heavily on research. And he obviously got a very wide network of people who talked to him about life in the court and the politicians, as we all do, but Peter in particular.

51:07And he just thought it was a great idea and could we get Helen back to do it? And I got involved in the play and we got Helen back and et cetera. So the audience was successful, was on the stage in London and it went to New York, which was a great experience. I didn't get, I mean, I was involved as a producer, But, I mean, you know, it ran for a few months, very successfully. And then there was a short passage of time. And then Peter was noodling. He was working on film scripts. And I kept saying to him, you know, Peter, you should do your big series. You know, you are like, there's a great American writer called Aaron Sorkin, who's done some brilliant stuff.

51:43And it's very like Peter writes contemporary political historical pieces, like West Wing, stuff like that. It's very Peter. And I met Sorkin. It was so like meeting Peter Morgan, I couldn't believe it. But anyway, I kept saying, come and be the Aaron Sorkin of the UK. But he was in New York at the time. So he eventually came back. And then he sent me an idea initially of the young Elizabeth and the old Churchill. And he said that I think it was make a movie. He'd written a couple of pages. And I read it. I thought, you know, yeah, this is interesting. There's something in this. I don't think it's a movie, though.

52:16I don't think it's quite big enough to be a movie somehow. It wasn't quite the Queen. It wasn't quite, you know. So I had a long chapter on the phone. and he said, well, there's a lot of material around this. Maybe it's a miniseries or maybe it's longer. I don't know. And then within like a week, he sort of phoned me back and said, I think it's three series. I said, yeah, it's just The Queen. So I'm at The Queen. The Queen's at the centre of it. And then about two days later, he said, no, no, it's not three. It's six. It's six series. We change the cast every two years. The Queen's at the heart of the whole thing.

52:45And it's going to cost a fortune. And it's only worth doing it if we get the money. But it could be brilliant. I said, well, that sounds great. I mean, but I was... That's a good summary of what it turned into. Well, I mean, to be honest with you, absolutely what Peter wanted, he wrote and we delivered. I mean, it never changed. It never changed. But the challenge of the Crown, just to try and make that, was it Peter... I mean, so did I. I wanted to do it really well. That meant a big budget. We knew that ITV couldn't afford it. We knew that the BBC couldn't afford it. And we knew that the BBC probably couldn't do it.

53:20They probably could have done the early years okay, but they're going to get into a lot of old hot water. Because of the politics of it. Yeah, once you get into Diana and all that kind of stuff. Once you get nearer to the present times, as we did, we knew the BBC would become very, would be very challenging for them because they're inevitably close links with the palace. So we didn't quite know how we were going to make that work. So it was not good. And so we thought, well, we knew somehow we had to find an American partner. We thought HBO would probably maybe do it with one ITV or Channel 4.

53:53What sort of budget were you thinking of for this first season? It became 5 million an episode. 5 million an episode. And how many episodes in a season? So 50 million starting price. Yes, but it was a bigger ask than that because we were asking for two series at a go. So we were asking for 20 hours. So you're looking for$100 million. We were looking for$100 million commitment. Right, so there are many people who can write that sort of check. Breathtakingly bonkers. okay so how did you pull this off Andy it's pretty amazing a lot of people enjoyed the crown so what did you do I want to hear this story well we set up a week in the first week in January whatever it was 2013 or 14 no 2012 or 13 so we'd had the BBC and ITV interest pre-Christmas and then we went there's myself and Peter Morgan and Stephen Daugherty the director and we went and did a meeting every day for one week in LA and that was HBO and Fox and Showtime and whoever else it was.

54:50And then Netflix was on the last day. And each of the four US big broadcasters, all the bosses were there for us, which is impressive. But also, I mean, you know, Steven Dordren, Peter, I mean, even not me. I mean, they are big names, Oscar nominated and all that kind of stuff. So you'd expect that. They all liked the idea. They all, Peter had written the first script. They all loved the script. But, you know, I mean, they would lean forward saying, seriously 100 million for a pile of british history i mean really can't you do a mini series about diana like just four hours that's what they wanted that's what they wanted so there were the conversations were intelligent and smart and thoughtful but they were a pass and so we ticked you know towards that final meeting with this this you must have you must have got the message back at this point from the others had you were you feeling a bit disconsolate at this point.

55:41It's all passing. They were all passing. So you knew this was your last shot. So by the Thursday night, we basically thought we're going to be going home Saturday or Friday night, I think we were going home on Friday night, empty-handed. Good try. Nice idea. Ambitious project. Just one for the draw. Yeah, but Netflix were interesting. I mean, obviously, they'd been around for a little while, but they had only just started producing original programmes. Talked me through the meeting. What happened? Well, they were all there. So I had rung the head of Sony Studio to say, would you please make sure that Ted Sandros is in the room.

56:14I mean, we thought he probably would be, but I wanted to double-check that he would be because we hadn't met Ted Sandros at this point, but Cindy Holland and Ted Sandros were the two people we had to have in the room. You've got to always get the bosses in the room. They're the decision makers. They're the decision makers. There's no point in going punting to people who aren't making decisions. It's just a waste of time. So this is good advice for people who want to get things done. Get the boss in the room. You can't always secure it, but you've got to do your best. But you've got to try. Yeah, and it was my job to make sure they were in the room.

56:40That's what I'm there. so yeah so i'm not i'm sort of pitching i'm you know it's peter is really pitching you know peter's on the line here it's peter's script you know it's peter's ideas his script steven is a brilliant director but you know he's he's always going to get work as a director and i'm obviously the the the you know the person who's going to make sure it's all going to happen but i have to make it happen this is the key point the selling point this is the this is when i really have to this where you have to deliver yes absolutely vital that i that you know and this is actually i have to be honest with you.

57:11I love this moment. I do love selling, but it's hairy and it's, it's not terrifying, but it is terrifying if you fail. It's just, you know, it's, anyway, anyway, we didn't. So what happened? So why did it work? Why did it work on the last day? It was, they literally bought it in the room. I mean, Ted said, this is fantastic. You know, we sort of discussed it and they asked a couple of questions and Ted said, this is fantastic. We want this, you know, this is great. We were like, i mean a little bit surprised but not showing it and peter said any and he said to peter we got any any questions and peter said um um i don't want any notes and ted said that's fine peter no notes what they're picking up 100 millions worth and there's going to be no notes i mean it's like it's unreal right and someone actually i met someone recently when you say no notes what's that mean well because when writers hand in their scripts they normally get piles of executive notes saying, I don't like it.

58:08What about this bit? What about that? Oh, so you've got no notes. I didn't know that's what you meant. That's so interesting. So Peter was very excited. So you just got exactly what you wanted, really. Pretty much, yeah. And I met someone recently. That's probably why it was so good. Well, I think, well, Peter would argue that's absolutely it. There was a lot of support but no interference, which was a different thing. Yeah. But I met someone recently who said, I remember you, I was seeing you, Andy, on a plane coming back from your Netflix meeting where you sold the crown. He said, you were just literally so happy you were bouncing around the aeroplane.

58:42I bet you were. So that was the beginning of what turned out to be a pretty incredible journey. It's an incredible journey. And of course, what we realised in the fullness, in time, was that we were in the right place at the right time, that Netflix had already decided. At that time we were selling, Netflix were only in the UK, the US, and a bit of Scandinavia. That's all. Nothing else. But they had obviously planned their global rollout. and they were looking for really good content yes and content with ip as you know this mysterious the much used phrase ip uh intellectual property and you can't get a much better piece of british ip than the royal family to be honest with you i mean that's a bit crude but it's true it's true so it was perfect for all inguist speaking territories everyone was familiar with the queen so you know we it was great and and and they were very good to their word they The money was not a problem.

59:34The support system was fantastic. They took incredible time and care to launch the show properly. And we were at the vanguard of something amazing, which was global television. And suddenly, instead of making shows that just dropped in Wakefield and Warrington and Wilmslow, they're dropping in Angola and... Wyoming and Wichita. or somewhere else. You know, when suddenly you were being told that, you know, 30 million people have been watching it this week around the world. 30 million. That sort of thing. I mean, it was wonderful. Yeah, that's very satisfying, yeah. It was just a wholly different thing.

1:00:10And we had these global drop dates, you know. November the 27th, the crown drops around the world, wherever you are. You know, I mean, this is just extraordinary. So this is a new form of television. I mean, the whole television has totally changed. At the time, the 50 years I'd been working in television from those humble days of writing trailers for Granada television through to kind of having global television shows drop. Unbelievable. And of course, the show grew exponentially with Netflix growth. So the figures of the show just go up and up and up and up and up and up, as did the budget. But the budget needed to, in a sense.

1:00:47So the budget went up. So you wanted to do cinematic television. This was the sort of exemplar of that. It was. And so how much did you get to per episode? You started off at five. Yes. Well, it doubled, basically. It doubled. So you were spending$10 million an episode for the last... Pounds, I think, actually. Pounds. That's$14 million, almost. We weren't desperately out of line with a lot of... I mean, Game of Thrones and all that. I mean, it wasn't the most expensive television. Game of Thrones is huge production. Yeah, yeah. I mean, there are other television shows which are more expensive than the crowd, many of them, and mostly American, actually.

1:01:17But I think for the UK, we were extraordinary. I mean, it was the first UK television show that had been had that sort of global success and you know and we were able to use the best of british crews the best of british actors i mean there were so many pluses about it it was an amazingly uh beautiful journey for 10 years actually to do thought i mean no television shows without its problems and its challenges there were of course plenty of those along the road but it was an incredible experience well one interesting sort of i think it popped up as a challenge periodically was writing a drama about people who are living living people yeah and sort of how they might react or well you can't libel them though it's pretty straightforward if you're if you libel them you're going to be in trouble so all the crown scripts uh are very carefully uh legal uh we never libel people we never say things we can't support it's very carefully researched i mean of course it's all imagined of course it is but peter's very very clever and I think his understanding of family drama, because that's what it is essentially, and the creation of those characters are pretty close.

1:02:28I think an interesting consequence that I think many people didn't see is that the royal family, or particularly the Queen, ended up more popular after the crown than she was at the beginning of it. No doubt there's a huge impact. But a really positive one for the royal family. The Queen had the same thing actually, by the way, the movie. the same thing is that prior to you know post Diana and all that stuff the Queen was at quite a low ebb in terms of popularity as was the royal family generally but the Queen the movie really turned it around which was ironic because they were not they were they were very suspicious of the movie being made and when we when we were trying to film it we were essentially banned from everywhere in Scotland apart from anywhere anything that was owned by British people was a a bit of a no-go.

1:03:11We had to go to the old Scandies, who owned quite a bit of Scotland these days. I mean, it changed once the movie came out. But initially, I mean, I understand that. There were people who were... So the man from Left Bank sort of did good for the royal family. It turned out as an irony. Oh, that's... You're smiling. Quite, James. Exactly. I didn't say I was a Republican, James. No, no, no. That's good. Well, you're clearly not. No, I'm not. I'm not. so so then taking the story forwards now you're sort of you you mentioned you're thinking about changing your way moving from ceo to executive chairman that's well i think i've had a fantastic ride we've done a lot of great shows we're still doing a lot of great shows we got you know department queue and this city is ours our two big hits this last 12 months and that and that's great but i did for the last year or so i started to think i mean sony fully own the company now And that's a really good thing.

1:04:07You know, we've gone on a journey and our success has been underwritten and supported by Sony. And they continue to be incredibly helpful in tougher times with distributing the shows so that our ambition and their ambition remains aligned. So that's all good. But I did sort of feel increasingly, maybe the next five, 10 years, I could spend my time being on more creative projects rather than actually running the company. And I don't say that, I think running the company is fantastic, but I've done it and I've done it pretty well, I hope. I mean, we've made a lot of money for everybody for 18 years.

1:04:42And so I decided to talk to somebody about stepping away, not stepping off or not retiring and not stepping away from the company completely, but taking a different role. It's called executive chair. I mean, and it's part time. It's non-exclusive, but it allows me to stay across two or three of the shows that I've always been invested in and to support our new CEO. who's Charlotte Moore, who's come in from the BBC, and to play just, you know, perhaps a wiser old man sort of type role. I don't know what that means. So it's a transition in a way. You obviously like the creative work. I do, but I also think that knowing when to get off the train is as important as knowing when to get on the train, in a sense.

1:05:24And I have thought a lot about it, and I've read quite a lot about it and thought quite a lot about it. And I just didn't want to be that person where people go, oh, he's sort of lost it or he can't be bothered anymore or he's not in touch with the new trends or thoughts or writers or what have you. I mean, television is an endlessly, swiftly moving business. You've got YouTube, you've got AI, you've got all these things affecting it and changing it and challenging it. And I think that's great. And Left Bank needs to be absolutely there to meet those challenges and work out for the next five years.

1:05:57You know, Sony expect that, they want that, they need that. And a five-year plan is something that, you know that that's that's somebody younger and more energetic and maybe coming in from a different position maybe managing it in a different way it's got to be a good thing they might be younger but i suspect it'd be hard to be more energetic well i'm seeing you now i've seen the energy is going to be still got plenty of that yeah so that's definitely apparent to me but what just i feel our conversation is coming towards an end have you got anything in production at the moment you want to yes tell us a little bit about just that might be interesting to our listeners.

1:06:34Well, I've quite had a long relationship with James Graham, the writer, who I think is absolutely... So what's James Graham written for people who maybe don't know who he is? Well, his current... Quite a lot of good stuff. Yeah, it's quite a lot of good stuff, yeah. James Graham has written Dear England, which is the very successful play about Gareth Southgate. That is our current project because we're turning that play into a four-parter for the BBC. And we're right in the middle of that now. And it's going out next May on BBC. Could you change the end so England wins? Yes, we know we can't change the end.

1:07:02We can't change the end, but we can. We have got Thomas Tuchel in it. So we brought it up to speak. Oh, right. Well, we like Super Thomas Tuchel in this part of town. I also did Quiz with James, which was another highly successful play about the millionaire. Who wants to be a millionaire? Right. Oh, the one that coughed. The major. The coughing major. Yes. That was great fun. And we got some other projects with James. I mean, James, like Peter Morgan, is just an incredibly exciting writer who wants to make sense of the modern world, the British world and that's what really interests me you know I'm a British producer and I I like to make stuff about the UK I think I don't I mean that's it's what interests me and I think it's what interests other people actually beyond the UK if you're making shows that intrinsically British they get it they understand it and they really enjoy it so well that's so good to hear because we we get to consume a lot of stuff from America we do so we need to have British producers producing but the demand for British stuff is very good I mean I didn't make adolescence I wish I had have done but look at that that is in many senses quite a small piece but its impact has been huge why because it's about something which you you can relate to wherever you are in the world you know the anxieties over the internet and teenagers etc etc etc it's brilliantly written it's beautifully performed and it's uk at its absolute best and i think there is no doubt that in this uh in this country we have a fantastic television and film industry we're very very good We have fantastic technicians and great story makers.

1:08:27As with musicians, we've always had a long run of people who make great music. And similarly, we have great artists who make great television. And that's something we've got to look after and nurture and preserve. Cultivate and encourage. Cultivate and encourage. And a healthy BBC is certainly one of the most important ways to doing that. Well, that's very topical. I passionately believe in the BBC I think it's you know I fear a terrible I don't think this will happen but I fear a sort of you know that the BBC could befall like Brexit something that happens without people really fully realising the consequences and understanding the consequences and then living with the consequences afterwards I really hope that I don't think it will happen actually because I think too many people understand and love what the BBC can offer and I'm not trying to get away from all the controversy over the news division.

1:09:25But I think in every aspect of our life, the BBC is a huge import. And it's what makes us very unique in the world. Nobody else has a standalone publicly funded... Well, so much great content they produce. But that's why we develop new talent there. I mean, you know, the future of our industry is going to depend on having something which is intrinsically British and about British talent. Well, I should declare my hand here. I once worked at the BBC, Andy, and I agree with what you just said.

1:09:58I always ask two questions at the end, all of my guests that I'm going to fire at you, Andy. The first question is, what gets you up on a Monday morning? Ah, what gets me up on a Monday morning? Well, I... What day is Tuesday, isn't it, actually? Well, I have become fanatical about exercise, so the answer is really very simple. I mean, one of my three or four trainers. You've got a team of trainers. I've got a team of trainers. I have rather more than I need. One or two I just can't quite lose because I like them. And the other two, they're trying different things. But I'm being a bit silly. I mean, some of them are in videos.

1:10:39Some of them are, you know. What time do you get up to do that? Six. I get up at 6.30 every day. And then I train for an hour. So I do different things. I do Pilates. I did that today as well. Yeah, it's good, isn't it? I think it is. I think it's being fit so important. I did weightlifting today. It was great. I mean, I'm not trying to, you know, everybody knows the advantages of keeping fit. And I've always kept fit, but I'm much more fanatical about keeping fit now. It gives me the energy. It makes me sleep better. Yeah. So, and the other thing, I suppose, it's at the same time, my head is always full of ideas.

1:11:14It is, you know, whatever project I'm mulling, you know, is in my head. and I'm starting to reach for a podcast or a piece of paper or something, you know. I've got obsessed about making a film about Led Zeppelin at the moment, which will only mean something to people over 40. Stairway to heaven. It's a great story. It's a great band, but it's a great story. And it's never really been told. Anyway, it doesn't. Oh, please do it. I'd like to watch that. But, you know, there's always, it's not quite an idea of the week, but I mean, every, you know, there is an underserflit of stuff. And I find that the stuff, the idea that stays with me and i just i can't if i can't quite let it go then it's it's for real that i've really got to give it a crack uh music things are particularly hard actually to be truthful for many reasons rights and the personality of people involved in bands and stuff like that but i mean they are popular if you can get it right you know so yeah well good luck with that and my last question andy from my book why you 101 interview questions you'll never fear again is where do you see yourself in five years time well i hope that's five years that's interesting i hope that i've got a small coterie of uh much the same as i intend to be from january onwards actually a little bit of i teach a little bit in the national film school and i'm on the board of the national film school so a little bit of putting back which i really enjoy apart from anything else um a little bit of uh curating and producing projects or mini series that that really excite me and with writers that i really admire and you know a fair bit of enjoying myself in walking and and sailing and you know get a bit of time outdoors a bit of time out i like i do like traveling i must be honest you know i hope department q will carry on i want to think department q was definitely carry on it's a it's a fantastic show and i'm very proud of it of my of my involvement in it but I mean it was a you know Scott Frank who wrote and directed is is really properly talented and doing it in Edinburgh was really great I brought um you know I've helped to bring a couple of shows to Scotland and that's given me great pride to honestly I mean I'm all for encouragement we should say you were born in Inverness I was born in Inverness and so I I feel my Scottish roots quite in my mother's past but uh she you know I wore a kilt till I was 12 Good for you.

1:13:35I hope some of the time in the future will take you back to Scotland. Exactly. Thanks for coming in to talk to me, Andy. It's been a real pleasure. Thank you, James. I've really enjoyed it too. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Andy, for joining me on All About Business. I'm your host, James Reid, Chairman and CEO of Reid, a family-run recruitment and philanthropy company. If you'd like to find out more about Reid, Andy, or Left Bank Pictures, all links are in the show notes. See you next time.