69. The career mistake smart people keep making (and what actually matters) | Sophie Clarke

0:00Sophie Clarke:Welcome to All About Business with me, James Reed, the podcast that covers everything about business, management and leadership. Every episode, I sit down with different guests who bootstrap companies, masterminded investment models or built a business empire. They're leaders in their field and they're here to give you top insights and actionable advice so that you can apply their ideas to your own career or business venture. Welcome to All About Business Shorts, where we share practical advice you will actually use. In this episode, we'll be looking at the bigger picture, how to think about your career strategically.

0:41Sophie Clarke:I'm joined by Sophie Clark, one of our top read consultants who works with professionals at every stage of their career, from early movers to senior leaders and sees firsthand why some careers accelerate while others stall. We'll talk about long-term direction, building leverage and how to make smarter decisions even when the path isn't obvious. So today on All About Business I'm delighted to welcome Sophie Clark to the studio. We're going to be talking about how to think about your career strategically? This is a really interesting question, Sophie. And Sophie is a senior consultant at Reed Specialist Recruitment based in Norwich.

1:28Sophie Clarke:Thank you for making the journey down to talk to me today, Sophie. And you take particular interest in some legal professionals, but we can go way beyond that in terms of how to think about your career strategically. um where should someone begin when thinking about this what does it actually mean to think about your career strategically and what's that mean rather than just chasing the next job i mean

1:53James Reed:what's the difference no absolutely well thank you for having me and i was really excited to have this question actually because it's something i talk about with candidates and clients i think often recruiters or conversations that we're having with candidates is when they're looking to escape a position um but actually it's thinking a little bit more about which direction that you might want to go into so not necessarily chasing the flashy new title or the increased salary um and thinking what what that next position might offer you and open doors up in a slightly

2:25Sophie Clarke:different avenue right i mean i've heard the expression we've used it in the past you know a job a better job a career so i think this is what you're talking about rather than just sort of falling into the next thing because we're trying to get out of somewhere else absolutely and i

2:42James Reed:think we all do it we it's a natural and kind of humanistic thing to think well you know that next title might actually be the thing that will satisfy me in short term it might do but if you're thinking potentially long term that new role might still encompass the same sort of responsibilities that you had in a previous role. It might not fit culturally for you. It might actually limit your growth within an organisation. I think sometimes taking a bit of a step back and thinking, well, what energises me or what direction do I want to go moving forward will then help heighten and grow you as an individual than thinking, oh, I just want to leave this role.

3:23Sophie Clarke:Right. So what's the most common short-term career decision that actually harms long-term progression?

3:30James Reed:So again, coming back down to title, that flashy title, it might be a more senior role, but actually when you look into the roles and responsibility, it actually is very similar to the role that you might be in before. Salary, so having another increase in your salary perspective, but actually you might have longer journey commutes that might be more difficult for you on a personal level potentially. There might not be management opportunities if that's something potentially that you're sort of looking for in the future. Again, it comes back to short term, it's exciting. So it alleviates some of that frustration that you might be having.

4:10James Reed:But maybe in six to 12 months time, you realise actually, it doesn't do anything further for you.

4:17Sophie Clarke:So don't necessarily be taken in by a flashier title or a little bit more money.

4:22James Reed:Absolutely. Might not long term pay you as well. No, absolutely not. And I think it's also asking the right sort of questions when you're going through that interview process. You know, what does that team structure look like within the business? Where does the business expect to grow maybe in six to 12 months? Because actually, again, it comes back to it might be limiting your growth opportunities. It might not have wider scope for you to go beyond that point. One thing that seems to come up quite a bit, actually, when I'm discussing with candidates and speaking with other consultants is individuals.

4:55James Reed:that then maybe move quite dramatically because they've been enticed into, like I said, a new job position, title, salary, suddenly have a realisation, maybe actually this doesn't align with what I want. It actually begins to knock their confidence and you slowly see that kind of deterioration in their own confidence and ability and maybe completing work.

5:19Sophie Clarke:Yeah, the difference between the right job and the wrong job can have a huge impact on people's confidence absolutely i mean i've seen that myself and and how people suddenly have a spring in their step when they feel that they're happily placed somewhere that's right for them so so evaluating beyond the job title and the the pay the sort of culture and the values i think of the team that you're working with is is very important isn't it i think it's taking a step back sometimes i mean

5:48James Reed:even myself I took a career change into the position I'm in now I truthfully didn't know what I wanted to do but what sort of helped me and again how I approach this with my candidates family friends other colleagues is maybe thinking about what energizes you what motivates you in your job so for some people it's the challenge for some people it is maybe the compensation package for example for other people it might be management and being an influencer within the organization but then also maybe having a bit of time to think about what takes me away from my day what maybe demotivates me um to then really assess which direction that maybe you want to go in as opposed to thinking there's only this option or there's only that option there's sort of infinite options in the end oh hugely I think it's being open to conversations so one of the other points that I again I discuss a lot with candidates and colleagues alike is asking questions I don't think we do enough of that it's very surface level we have so many people in our environment not just within work that have had their own journeys career-wise or maybe on a personal level ask them questions ask them what did they do that might be slightly different what feedback can they maybe provide to you what do they see that you've achieved over the years and where you've really shone in a certain environment and maybe getting it from a slightly different angle um will help kind of so this is this is really interesting you're talking about seeking input

7:27Sophie Clarke:from people you you know in your networks and friendships absolutely um and you've found that helpful yourself i have yeah and you also mentioned i think it's critical you know to have an understanding of what energizes yes yeah yeah what what makes you feel you want to get up and go yeah

7:45James Reed:as opposed to the lion bed not get out exactly and we're all different in that respect well exactly like for me as an individual i love being around people i love to learn from people their experiences um pick their brains challenge their thought processes you know be a bit of devil's advocate like that's the environment that i enjoy but not all people people like that i don't mind going to networking events some people might not enjoy that so i think it's a really good opportunity to kind of assess that and sometimes we are our biggest critique and that's why i was using that example of speaking with friends and family and colleagues because they see you from a slightly different angle um and they can probably appreciate a little bit more than what you give

8:29Sophie Clarke:yourself credit most of the time they'll certainly give you a different perspective yeah um because they do see you as you say from a different angle actually see you you can't see yourself in quite the same way so i think that that's very good advice good insight um how do you think you know we could identify skills or experiences that will really compound over time you know what

8:52James Reed:are the sort of things people should be looking for i suppose it's understanding what you mean by compounding so i think my in the way that i often view that is you have the skills that allow you or facilitate you to do your everyday job so to speak yes when we're talking about compounding skills from my perspective it's what will help open doors and opportunities in the future so um often in my sort of specialism or certainly more widely across you know employment it's communication styles learning to adapt um in legal for example it's talking the language it's being able to adapt that from a lawyer to maybe the director but then also the finance team so i think being versatile in communication um particularly with technology as well so it's not just about the verbal communication it's written communication um i think it's also being able to to maybe influence people over a period of time.

9:51James Reed:So showing that you're reliable, you're trustworthy, that you're credible in the work that you do or the direction that you want to go in. And I think those are the sort of things that will compound over time. Networking is, again, another example of that.

10:09Sophie Clarke:Is your organisation prepared for what's coming next? At Reed Talent Solutions, we don't just manage contingent worker programs and fill roles through our RPO solutions. We future-proof your workforce. From scaling operations to upskilling teams and navigating digital transformation, we are your strategic partner in building resilient, future-ready talent ecosystems. Visit reedtalentsolutions.com today to discover how we can help your business grow. Well, you're building, listening to you, I'm thinking you're building your own personal reputation.

10:50James Reed:You are, yes.

10:51Sophie Clarke:It's not just brands that have reputations, it's people who have reputations, very importantly, which leads into another interesting area, which is the one of the personal brand. A lot of people talk these days about how important it is to have a personal brand. But from what you've just said, it seems very important that that brand is first and foremost trusted. You're going to have a good career.

11:13James Reed:Absolutely.

11:13Sophie Clarke:um good personal brand but how is that how important is that this this personal brand concept you know internally and externally these days and what should people be thinking about

11:24James Reed:concentrating on i think it's a really good question and i think it's something i remember um my early career very early on a partner talking about too many always stuck with me about that internal and personal internal sorry and external branding and what that looks like and i think we immediately think external in that scenario so we think about networking we think about linkedin which is a really good kind of platform to showcase you as an individual and your interest um projects that you're working on and your achievements along the way but i also think the internal which is your colleagues um so you mean internally in the organization you're working in as well because i mean certainly what your colleagues think about you so how do you find out how do i find out i know so i'm certainly within i mean read is such a large organization it's what i love it's one of the reasons why i joined is there's so many people with meeting new people i love meeting new people and i and i get to work in different offices but i've made a really big point of building relationships with people from all sorts of parts of the business whether that's like talent whether that's our bd you know business development leaders um new people that have started within the business to be someone that they can turn to if they want to talk about recruitment or they want to soundboard something or you know they need a bit of a pick me up during the day and I think what that has allowed me to do and what I see other people doing is it shows again I'm trustworthy and reliable I'm someone that they can turn to and I think again that's another way that you can do that within within a business.

13:02Sophie Clarke:yeah i mean i think what you're saying as well is that you become a key person in the team you see key team member team member which in terms of think about a career strategically

13:13James Reed:is is a good place to to be it's it's also potentially opening doors for people to come to you to talk about future projects to get your opinion and it might create new opportunities exactly again exactly so it's it brings back to that piece of being strategical in where you're building those relationships with and then thinking even more long term I always talk about with my candidates and family and friends is you never know where your past might cross over so in 10 years time that person or you might be someone a little bit more senior and it's a family friend that might be reaching out so it's always important to leave a good impression and again it could open an opportunity that you would never have had the position to have if you weren't maybe as open and building that credibility.

14:04James Reed:It's always important to leave a good impression.

14:06Sophie Clarke:I like that thought. And I've often thought, you know, it's important to leave well. I mean, because no job is forever. And when we leave, it's important to leave well and on good terms so that when our paths cross again, that's not a destructive but a constructive interaction.

14:24James Reed:Absolutely. I mean, we're a large organization. we're in the UK how many people are in the population you'd be surprised the number of stories I've spoken to candidates where a number of years down the line they've reconnected with someone that's had a transition within a business that has grown in a slightly different direction and it's sparked up a conversation so yeah we are a tiny little number in a large you know on this planet but you just never know where things might cross over again and they do cross over they do

14:57Sophie Clarke:So keep that in mind, folks. Yeah, that's very true. One of the things I'm also observing is, if you're thinking about your career strategically, choosing the right place to work in terms of joining a company that has an upside that is growing, is showing potential for future success is also important, isn't it?

15:20James Reed:I think that is definitely a factor to consider if that's something that interests that is something that's important to you as well i think alongside that for some individuals it might be a smaller organization that has um as like with reed actually the environmental impact is obviously a really kind of a call within the reed organization um for some individuals that might be a smaller organization so one of the things i'm thinking

15:48Sophie Clarke:about is it's important to join an organization that's going to, in a sense, carry you along with it. So if the organization is growing or succeeding or showing real promise for the future, it's more likely, isn't it, that your career will flourish because you can grow with it. You're more likely to get pay rises and promotions in a company that's flourishing than in one that's not so is this something you advise people to look out for when they're thinking

16:19James Reed:about who to apply for it's part of that piece of there's two kind of two points here i think from when i have my discussions or certainly what i've seen is um we often expect clarity to happen when we're not doing anything to find out that information so in order to get that clarity you have to take steps forward to do that and in order to do some of that it's doing that research which obviously you can access online and you know from a recruiter they can offer insights as well from a different angle um but it's also again comes to that point of asking questions um you know if you're going through like an interview position you know you're doing an interview interaction it's a two-way um dialogue it's an opportunity for you as a candidate to ask the nitty-gritty questions structure of the team what the culture looks like what plans are there in the future what projects are ongoing going into that more high level interaction so you can come away with more information about not just where the business is now but what does that look like in the future so that you can see if that aligns with that growth piece that you're looking for yeah i

17:32Sophie Clarke:mean the future is uncertain but if it looks like it's got a good trajectory that's a good place to start. I mean, there's a lot of information available to people. And I was surprised years ago, one of my colleagues came and told me that he was leaving and joining another recruiter, the small firm. And I said, are you sure? And I remember looking this firm up on Companies House and they were making losses. And he said, oh, they're giving me shares. And I said, well, look at their accounts, the shares aren't worth anything. Are you sure? And anyway, he ended up coming back. But it was sort of interesting to me that he'd made these decisions without evaluating the financial health of the business.

18:08Sophie Clarke:And you can do that quite easily. You can look up, I mean, in the UK, at least, publicly available information on companies is easy to access through Companies House.

18:17James Reed:It's a lot easier to access than people realise, actually. And I think even...

18:21Sophie Clarke:It takes five minutes.

18:22James Reed:It really does. But again, it kind of comes back to that piece as well, asking people in the industry, this is where you can use a recruiter, which, again, pivots in a really nice way in the sense of a recruiter has those relationships they are an expert usually in their market you could really ask them about what do they know about potentially the client um in in in the appropriate manner of course um but if you really want to get insight in a slightly different angle that's where you can use recruiters to be and i suppose like an extension um of your career like a recruitment partner not just there for when again that point of oh i want to escape this position i'm not happy for xyz but actually maybe contacting a really good recruiter throughout maybe two three times a year at least touch base to get insights into how the market's been obviously we know how the employment market has been generally but there certainly has been shifts in certain sectors uh the interim market for example the you know temporary positions um but also to get insights into like salary benchmarking locational differences um i think that's another way that you can kind of increase your strategical approach or direction or realign it dependent on

19:38Sophie Clarke:what's going on in the market so one question in my mind is how do you make good career decisions when you don't know what your end goal is which is not unusual i mean who does who does yeah but is it reasonable to have an end goal um i think not i think