82. Start now. The sign your business idea is ready to build | Sahar Hashemi OBE

26:26You're going to do your job much better. You're going to succeed much better. Exactly. But people didn't think that before. Right. So we've learned. So you're now doing something very exciting, which I believe came out of what used to be called a tweet, but it's now post on X during the pandemic. Tell us about Buy Women, Bill. Well, no, thank you for coming to that because I always used to do these podcasts, James, and people would be like, so are you going to do anything else? I was like, no, I'm just going to write books. One of which is behind you. I really love it. Wonderful. And I'd be like, actually, yeah, I mean, you know, I don't think I can start.

27:08I haven't really got it in me to start another business. But I really missed it. You know what I really missed was I missed a struggle, you know. Right. I miss struggle I miss not knowing what to do I missed being so stuck that I had to just out of a clear blue sky just come up with a solution and do something do you know what I mean it just I think that's what's really addictive about entrepreneurship is the struggle and not knowing and that kind of yeah but anyway I never thought I could no but I you just you just rang a bell for me I think entrepreneurs are like artists you know they never retire yeah I mean once you're an entrepreneur you're an entrepreneur but what do you think you're addicted to like well that's a very good question you're addicted to something to the struggle i think the struggle would be your answer to that yeah i think you're addicted to the you know to the need to be scrappy for the hustle for the kind of having to use every part of your brain and everything you've got to kind of you know when you're used to it's almost like you know i suppose that's what the high of like I've got no and it's not the high of success I think it's the high of that's a sort of restless spirit I think yeah it's just like something you really want and how am I going to get there and it uses a part of you that when you're not using it you feel very very empty and I had that those moments so you felt empty yeah God yeah absolutely and I remember three books and that was you know and I would and your books were very successful yeah Financial Times Prize winning things like that thank you absolutely yeah and then And then I was like doing a lot of speaking about this entrepreneurial mindset because it was a real bugbear.

28:51What happened? What did we get wrong? And how could company, and it was wonderful once companies started thinking, okay, you're right actually, because how could we have bottled up all that passion you had as you grow so that growth and entrepreneurial spirit are not like, can come together. They're not opposite that you sort of, which is what I call my book, Startup Forever. You know, to have to be started. but anyway um then covid hit and then i was doing no speaking whatsoever and you know sometimes they say if there's nothing you know that empty space is when ideas come because you're sort of receptive to ideas um and then i saw the tweet literally i just remember where i was what did you say in your tweet there's someone's tweet that i i and i had time to actually look through twitter because normally you're sort of um scrolling not knowing what you read and and it was not all of us can invest in women not all of us can mentor women but we can all buy from them and it was just really that idea that um you know we talk a lot about like supporting women but the easiest way to support women is there are so many women built brands out there if you just buy from them you know everyone talks about investment but the best investment a business can get is customers right and we always forget that you know series a series b women can't raise money through investment well the business has got to be great.

30:11And, you know, that's kind of, it's through turnover that you're going to, you know, that's really where every business should be looking at. And I knew quite a few women-built businesses. And I thought, you know, the pity is people don't know that there are so many brands out there that are women-built. And I'm going to start something. And it was actually, it was the same time during the pandemic when we'd had the very, very tragic murder of Sarah Everard in Clapham Common, if you remember. I do remember. And all these girls, it was just literally that time when all these girls were going with their vigil.

30:44And I kind of thought, there's such a big, you know, these young girls, they want to support women. They want to say, there's something that we need to come together. We want to support each other. But what about coming together for something really positive is what I mean is Me Too was brilliant. But, you know, it's just something that actually has, you know, it's really positive we can do towards it. Rather than say what we haven't got and why, you know, I kind of banned that word, which I'm going to say the two P out of every pound goes to women built businesses. Do you know what I mean? I just, is that going to help anyone start a business?

31:12No. And it was really on the back of my sort of work, my title, my first book, Anyone Can Do It, because I believe anyone can do it. And women make amazing entrepreneurs. So anyway, there and then I decided to start a movement to kind of a consumer movement to shine a light on women built brands to tell consumers, did you have any idea all these brands around your women built? which is what became Buy Women Built. So Buy Women Built, spelled B-U-Y, Women Built. But it's a nice play on words. Where can people find this and how do they see which companies? Yeah, well, at the moment we've got a mark kind of on all the women built practice, thousands and thousands of them, to give you an idea.

31:58If you go on Ocado, there's a whole Buy Women Built aisle on Ocado, a Tesco. That's an aisle. Yeah, in a whole aisle, you could sort of go under like the different kinds of aisles. So you can look for BuyWomenBuilt. Yeah, exactly. And there's sort of 120 brands come up. We took over all the windows of Whole Foods, Tesco, Holland & Barrett, Planet Organic. And that's really, that's since I got the idea. This is really the sort of three, four-year journey of BuyWomenBuilt. Is there a website as well? There's a website. There's a director of WomenBuilt Brands. And then behind it, what I love is a community of 2 ,500 WomenBuilt Brands.

32:30And these are all brands that people would know from Little Moons, Moshies to Child's Farm to Biotiful Dairy to much smaller brands. So a lot of them are big, big consumer brands that everyone knows to much smaller brands. And this community, I love the community. We've got a community app and women are kind of collaborating. It's all founders of consumer brands. I'm going to tell my wife, Nicola. She should make sure Beeble is on Buy Women Built. Because basically, and Nielsen did some research for us last year, and when someone sees a Buy Women Built logo, it doubles purchase intent. Yeah, and for example, with Okada, with Whole Foods, with Tesco, we've seen a minimum 20 % uplift in sales when people know a brand is Women Built.

33:21Because in these days, in this sort of day and age, where everything is so sort of impersonal and disconnected, when you know the founder, when you know there's a woman, and 90 % of our founders started from a personal need. Right. So it was something they couldn't find for their family. You know, women are solution providers, right? So there's something like the daughter's got eczema. She starts Dr. Popo. You know, she's got an allergy to something. She starts this sort of allergy-free brand. So it's just everything is a solution because that's what women are. And it's incredible. And I have been doing this now, you know, for over four years.

33:56And I'm pretty good at due diligence for my lawyer days. But still brands come up. To this day, I'm like, you know, quite a small country, right? And I'm like, oh, my God, I had no idea this brand was woman built. You know, it's still to this day. Right. We have not covered everyone. Yeah. Well, I hope you manage to find many more. And I hope there'll be women listening who are encouraged to start businesses. Yeah, because they're proof that, you know, and they come in all shapes and sizes. and you know the only way um you know you can't be what you can't see right and for so long we're very good in this country of saying what we don't have and criticizing but actually i thought let's just change the script instead of saying what we don't have and what women specifically don't have um and i'm just going to do a proviso james that the reason i'm doing this is because of the rose review of entrepreneurship that came out that i was involved in and in the uk we have 30 percent less female entrepreneurs than other developed countries can you imagine and that cost the UK economy, 200 billion.

34:53So just tell us a little bit about the Rhodes Review. As you've mentioned it. Yes, it was the Alison Rhodes Review of Entrepreneurship that she did about female entrepreneurship. And that was really the catalyst for me. So that was looking at the whole landscape. And I had no idea that we have, in a country like ours. And why is that, do you think? You know, confidence. Women don't think they've got the right skills. That's all that is. It's literally, it's visibility. And that's why, kind of, in a way, buy one belt was my solution to um you know obviously funding is an issue but you know you've got to have a good business to be funded right like yeah sometimes i it's interesting to me in recruitment and also when people put themselves for for promotion women sometimes just don't apply or put yeah absolutely you kind of wish they did because they are qualified that's right there's a sense i think in some people's minds that you know unless i can tick every box of what this jobs description requires, then I shouldn't apply.

35:48Well, that's absolutely not the case. That's right, yeah. If you've got some of it and you think you can grow in the role, apply. Yeah, and women especially. Women almost, it's the opposite of arrogance. They feel they have a misaligned feeling that they haven't got the skills. There's something in our culture that seems to make that happen, which is unfortunate. So you're really addressing this. I'm pleased to hear that. And I kind of practically, and I'm really proud of the fact that you can see it everywhere. And, you know, some of my ideas are some young girls sitting at breakfast table. You know, maybe she doesn't get that much inspiration from her mom or the women in her family.

36:24And she will pick up the jam, Fern and Rosie. She'll pick up the milk, you know, the milk brand or the peanut butter brands, Pippernut. And she will see that it's built by women. And when she sees, wow, I love this peanut butter brand, Pippernut. and actually a woman started it. So therefore maybe I can start a business too. Well, I'm thinking of you going into that coffee shop all those years before. That is exactly right. So you've spoken quite a lot about the entrepreneurial mindset. You've made that a sort of focal point for yourself. What do you mean by a startup mindset? I'm very interested in mindset.

37:04I once wrote a book called Put Your Mindset to Work. Oh, really? And I think it's very important because it really sort of changes our perspective on all sorts of things. But what is a startup mindset? I mean, it's funny, actually, James, I've sort of almost decided that we call it mindset, but it's not really how you think. It's sort of day-to-day behavior is actually what defines a mindset, right? And startup mindset is exactly what we were talking about earlier, is having your eye on the customer because that's where the money comes from. And I think, you know, that's what people forget when they join a big company.

37:39You always forget, actually, that if the customer wasn't buying the product or buying the service, there will be no money in this company. It doesn't just grow on trees. Well, I tell colleagues, you know, the customer pays our wages. Yeah, people don't realize that. It's a really bizarre thing, but people actually don't realize. It's fundamentally obvious. No, no, but it's really that connection. Yes. People think your boss pays your wages. Do you know what I mean? Or the management team. But it's actually, and when you're in a startup, you see that. because if the customer's not buying, there ain't no money to pay your wage.

38:08And that also applies to the public sector. I think it's important to stress. Absolutely. We as taxpayers are customers. That's right. Absolutely. It's a recipient of whatever you're doing. The service. Yeah. So that mindset is actually by keeping yourself so focused on the person you're serving and then removing, you know, kind of, you know, that too much bureaucracy, too much distance between it, being too busy, you know, that sort of back-to-back diary, that kind of what I call comfort admin. It is difficult, though, that if you're growing a business, not to be sort of consumed by the requirements of running the business.

38:42Yeah. Like you, in a sense, where that takes you away from the customer. Yeah, and it shouldn't, right? So I think the job of a good leader is to always bring everyone back to the customers and be aware that a couple of stuff can come in. And I've kind of worked with companies, which the more they try to be entrepreneurial is just like cut the bureaucracy. Do we need to have these processes? Even Amazon has a system whereby people can write in and go, we've got to cull this process because processes develop like weeds. And it's getting the processes out to sort of simplify the road between the people that work in the company and the customer.

39:21Because the more shielded they are, I think the more disconnected they are. And the reason why people in a startup are so buzzy is because the only reason isn't because it's like sexy or exciting or there's money there. It's because they're so close to the customer. Right. And that gives it an obvious and immediate purpose. Yeah, exactly. It's the soul. You know who you're serving. You know what to do. It becomes really obvious. Yes. Because when you see a customer's got a problem and you're seeing it in real life, when you get back to the office, you don't have to kind of go on a brainstorming session.

39:52You just know that you have to provide a solution for it. You don't have to send in the mystery shoppers. I mean, exactly. You can't not provide the solution when you have seen what the problem is. Right. And it's things like, again, being scrappy, doing things, not waiting for perfection. That's what startups do the whole time. So this is a couple of stuff that you can kind of bring in to kind of company teams and big companies to become much more aware. You know, being clueless, asking stupid questions. I love asking stupid questions. You ask stupid questions? All the time. Yeah. That's part of being a podcast host.

40:26but yeah i like to say there's no such thing as a stupid question but actually there is but why not ask them anyway ask them anyway because i mean if you're going to be judging every question before you ask it it's sort of quite you know no more poker face because the world's changing so fast that you've just got to you know we all know as much as each other it's got to keep questioning it especially in this day and age right i mean the pace of change is just no it's incredible yeah incredible and what how do you tell when a company or a team's losing its entrepreneurial edge. One of the sort of warning signs, I mean, you mentioned a couple of things.

40:58Yeah, I mean... One of the canaries that are falling off their purchase. Yeah, look, I mean, I've got a very small team of five of buy, when build. And as we're progressing, someone said, are you going to have an org chart? Because you're all the sort of girls. It also starts, you know... Org chart. Org chart. Because they were like, oh, this is not professional enough. So this way that you run it is just all very chaotic and stuff. And I think their friends must have sort of said, you know, is there any structure here? So I kind of developed an org chart. and we move very fast and we've been growing very fast.

41:27And I sort of put this oak shot like you do this, you do that, this is your position. And literally within like 10 days, I was like, something feels different. No one's talking to each other. Everyone's just gone into their own silos. And then I was like, oh God, it's that goddamn oak shot. That's what it's done. Because no one's looking at who we're serving, which in our case is the community or the brands. You know, we've just all gone into like, that's all I do and disconnected from each other. And you just feel it, right? You just feel it. It's like something. It loses its effervescence. And you know a team that is effervescent because they're coming up with solutions.

42:02They're coming up with ideas. They're excited. So what did you do? All get in the car and go for a drive? No, literally. I took the org chart. A terribly org chart. I said, everyone, literally, like, I kind of crossed out the things. And I said, this is the org chart. But everyone's working towards the community and the purpose of what we do at Buy and Build. And I kind of try to get everyone involved in quite a few conversations. it's not that it's probably not that efficient old style but actually when everyone's involved everyone knows their bit of what we're trying to do and we're sort of joined together as to who we're serving do you all work together do you work in the same room or you sort of remote um no no i take remote are you remote you hate remote yeah yeah no i was just thinking because you're five people you sit around a table and if one of them is doing something the others might be doing something else but they sort of over here it's quite a good working in the same space exactly it's very helpful it's incredibly helpful but i kind of find even you know sometimes um friday is a work from home day and you know they kind of go when they're making a cup of coffee there with their roommates who don't work at by one but whereas i quite like all of them when they work their ideas come and you know yeah there's this of energy as well yeah i'm really i'm really really um yeah i think everyone should should should come in i just just want to be in the juices of the company together and just creating.

43:19And even if people sort of say, I get much more done when I'm at home alone, I'm like, actually, much more done what? Like, what bit are you getting done? Yeah, that's a good question. So I read somewhere recently, someone saying, you know, working from home was career suicide. I thought that was quite strong, but there is something in it. I don't think it's helpful in the long run. That's right. Yeah, no, definitely. I mean, you know, I'm sort of, the level I'm at. I quite like to sit at home every morning in my tracksuit bottoms. But, you know, I've kind of got a team. I've got to get out there.

43:51Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure they're pleased to see you as well. So what happens? How does entrepreneurship get overcomplicated? Because what you're describing is a pretty direct, simple, energetic approach, but it seems to get overcomplicated. That's right. Yeah. I mean, God, I mean, sort of like 67 ,000 books on Amazon on innovation, you know because i think we sort of got to feel how can everyone get motivated how whereas actually you know i believe it's just really simple once you're with a customer you can't not be motivated because you know what problems they have you'll know if what you're giving them is solving their problem and it just it just seems so basic but we just forget who we're serving and i think in a startup if you've been in a startup it's so obvious so hopefully that is a legacy that you carry through as the founder or as a startup team.

44:41Yeah. I mean, it also applies to jobs because in my book, Why You, I describe a job as a problem to be solved. You know, when someone's hiring someone, they're hiring them to help solve a problem, you know, like you're talking about here for customers directly. Yes, yes, absolutely. In the chain towards serving customers. And I think when someone who's applying for a job realizes that a job is a problem to be solved, they bring an entirely different disposition to the interview. there's not what's in it for me but how can i help solve this problem why am i the right person to solve this problem that's right i i love that analogy because it's almost like what i say is it's you're not selling you're solving you know people go in like this is my product and i'm trying to sell it but actually if you sit in the shoes of the customer which is actually you're the person interviewing you for the job they they need someone to solve that problem like they've got looking for a solution exactly so the more you put yourself in their shoes rather than you in the sell mode transmitting and that's what people do transmitting about their product not realizing you know things have changed especially now when things are changing so fast it's sort of we've really got to so don't get jammed on transmit and say yeah make sure you're part of the solution no i would agree with that um but think about your own career and and what you've learned and what we've just been discussing with buy women build have you got any advice for people on how to decide whether an idea is worth pursuing.

46:06I mean, you said earlier you were saved by an idea. I love that. Yeah. I mean, I think ideas are so important. But how do you weigh out whether this one's, what's involved here? I've got exactly the answer for you. You don't sit there weighing it up. You don't sit there kind of asking people or kind of plan A, plan B. You get an idea. It's like a gift from heaven, right? And you just go for it. And you just try to kind of implement it. And then fairly quickly, you'll know if this is going to work or if it's not going to work. But you've got to pursue the idea and give your brain that message that if an idea comes, we're going to try it out.

46:46I mean, that feels quite militant to me. I mean, you might be getting masses of ideas. You're not trying to try them all. No, but then again, that's why. How do you curate ideas? So my brain knows that when I get an idea, I'm quite serious about it. so for example I mean before I got this idea for dog having sort of places for my dog to go to in London because that whole issue and so in America they've got destinations for dogs you know what I mean that you can just put you know a dog nursery kind of thing oh right and I just thought brilliant idea going to a dog nursery because the idea came to me you know that started so you're doing this now no not at all but because so I'm telling you about an idea so dog nursery comes to me instead of going to people should I start a dog nursery so it's in my head the whole time.

47:28I kind of, I remember calling up, you know, I probably spent 10 days. I did a business plan. Then I started calling estate agents and they were like, actually, do you know what? Most of the properties we've got, like, you know, we want gyms and stuff. Dogs are messy. Neighbors don't want to have dogs around there. So very quickly, I was like, actually, do you know what? I've spoken to like 10 agents. No one seems to want it. That's a real issue. So maybe on a personal level, I was like, actually, I'm not going to pursue this. I think, you know, someone else has started that sort of that that is successful somehow they found a way but for me i sort of hit a brick wall but then next time my brain brings me ideas because it doesn't think i'm not going to send her ideas because she just like waste them right you sort of you're quite sure you get something you're like okay yeah that's interesting i'm going to pursue it so i think a lot of life is about um telling your brain you know i i can do this like send them to me let's give it a try and then And then you sort of become more receptive.

48:26Is that too woohoo? No, no. I'm thinking about how do you get more ideas to come. Yeah, you don't want too many ideas, right? Because the worst thing, I bet you know people who have thousands of ideas. That's so boring. An idea is worthless, right? They're worthless until you do something with them. Yeah, I mean, with Buy One Builds, there's sort of natural peer-to-peer mentoring. So I've got a full capacity. But before, when someone wanted advice, especially when I wrote my books, anyone can do it, especially, about entrepreneurship. and there weren't that many entrepreneurs. And so if I mentored anyone, I was like, I will never mentor an idea because I don't respect an idea.

49:03I will only mentor someone who's taken the leap, you know, gone for it, started, and then they could ask me, do you think I should get a new designer or is that logo okay? Do you think I should pursue this avenue? But they're actually underway. Yeah, on their way. Because I think an idea is like washing up liquid, literally as you're sort of, I mean, a bubble. and someone with an idea for me is absolutely worthless. Right. So it's someone who does things. Yeah, just actually, I had an idea. This is how far I've come. I've stuck my neck out. I've worked really hard. Yeah. Can you help me? Because I'm at a crossroads.

49:38You said you were at capacity, but do you do still mentor people? I mean, gosh, look, we have commuted 2 ,500. So I don't mentor them, but I think I can give enough. But you're giving good advice now for people. Well, just sharing. And yeah, just sharing what I know. sort of yeah yeah what i'm through the scars really james that's the great thing about a podcast you can share with a lot of people yeah exactly and so so you you must move forward with ideas without fully knowing what's going to happen next i mean exactly you have no idea so you got to just take the step yeah you're never gonna be surprised what surprised you the most in your sort of entrepreneurial journey here's an idea i think i'll try it either good or bad what was did anything catch you out?

50:21Wow, I wasn't expecting that. I mean, God, life is all, you know, it's just a journey, right? Like, I don't even think James that much. And I think now, actually, people keep asking me, as Biowin Built's growing, what's your plan? And I'm like, I haven't got a plan. That was my next question. Really? Yeah. So you haven't got a plan. I haven't got a plan. But that's quite refreshing. Yeah, I just know a plan. You have a purpose. It's so nice. I wait to see what's coming. and what's around us and you know what I mean, what opportunities we have. And then I'm sure to be kind of like a sort of warrior and you think just grab that opportunity.

50:57So you want to be really opportunistic. I want to be awake and aware and ready to grab the opportunity. And I find a lot of people I come across, they're so fixated about a certain route they've got to take that you're actually missing out on everything that's around you that you can grab at that given moment. and so I'm very much like and it takes like a tiny bit of it's a bit counterintuitive and I think people slightly like oh you have got like you don't know where you're going I'm actually I know now where I'm going much more than I ever have because my little teeny brain coming up with a little plan that I write in a business plan is so small compared to what opportunities we have in this world at any given day what email we get what phone call we get what idea pops into our head what someone says whereas i much prefer to be aware and i think if i can live my life i wouldn't be so dogmatic about this is what i want to do i'd be much more like okay this is who i am i sort of know but this is in front of me let me do this and then let me see where it takes me and then let me do this let me take you know what i mean it's just i don't know if you know what i mean no i do i'm thinking about it i mean we do strategic planning but it never turns out like the strategy and i think it's very important to be agile and and opportunistic and to be super aware of what's happening especially now more than ever now because of the pace of change with technology exactly and opportunities are everywhere and i kind of find sometimes in my sort of youth the mistakes i made is just sit dog back i want that you know i want my life to turn up this way and i've learned that actually sometimes life life turns out much better than you think but not in the way that your little brain and your little ego that looks at everyone else and compares and then sets you a little, you know what I mean?

52:40Like that whole idea of the sort of vision and the dream and stuff, it's so small compared to what opportunity we have. I like that. So a vision and a dream is small thinking. Yeah, it's small. It's kind of the idea of the big dream. The universe has much more to offer. The idea of the big dream is something your teeny mind has made up. Let's embrace the universe. I like that. I've gone really woohoo now. I'm not even woohoo, but I'm sounding a bit woohoo. No, no, I think that's great. So my last question in that spirit is, without asking for your plan, what does success look like by women built in five or ten years' time?

53:19Yeah, it just looks like every day I feel like I'm sort of doing my best. Do you know what I mean? And every day I'm alive and there's stuff coming through and we're using everything. You know, it's just kind of, I mean, my dad had this wonderful saying that stays with me and that was do your best and let God do the rest. And that kind of means that sometimes we try to control outcomes and, you know, worry about, you know, plan A, plan B, that sort of planning bit. Whereas actually, if we just do our best every day and we don't need to have a plan for it, we know what to do every day. If we're fully awake, fully aware, fully in love with what we do, fully focused on who we're serving, we know what to do.

54:03What we need to do becomes very obvious to us. So it's just doing that every day and it's the first time, you know, in my 50s and I'm living like that and I'm working like that and I can't wait to get to work. You know what I mean? The weekend comes like, oh, I have to wait till Monday again. I just love what I do and I'm lucky that I never thought I would be in that position again. Well, I'm very pleased that you are and what a fantastic organization you're running. So thank you, Saha, for coming to talk to me. I enjoy that tremendously. And for giving such inspiring advice and thoughts to share.

54:39I found that fascinating.

54:45I'm going to ask you two questions, which I always ask at the end. I mean, you partly answer the first one, because at Read We Love Mondays. Oh, great. There you are. So what is it, Sahar, that gets you up on a Monday morning? Yeah. Just not knowing. I'm like, bring it on. Let's see what Monday brings. And it's just the excitement of just utilizing every bit of what I've got. You know what I mean? Yeah. I feel. I believe you. And then the last question is from my book, Why You? 101 Interview Questions You'll Never Fear Again. Where do you see yourself in five years' time? Oh, God, I don't even see myself.

55:23Yeah. I prefer not even to think or look. No, it's too terrifying. So you really are true to your work. Yeah. You're living in the moment. Yeah. Well, good for you. And I hope there are many more moments to come. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you for talking to me. Thank you, Sahar, for joining me on All About Business. I'm your host, James Reid, Chairman and CEO of Reid, a family-run recruitment and philanthropy company. If you'd like to find out more about By Women Built or Read, you'll find all the links in the show notes. Thank you for listening and see you next time.