Abigail Tan: CEO of St Giles Hotel Group

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2:02What you're about to hear was originally broadcast on Jazz FM. However, the music has been cut due to rights issues. The world's greatest jazz, soul and blues from the world's greatest artists. This is Jazz FM. Jazz Shapers with Elliot Moss in partnership with Mishkondorea. It's business, but it's personal. Welcome to Jazz Shapers with me, Elliot Moss, bringing the shapers of the business world together with a musician shaping jazz, soul and blues. My guest today is Abigail Tan, CEO of St. Giles Hotel Group and founder of the Hotels with Heart Foundation, a charity giving back to local communities.

2:43Born in Penang, Malaysia, with hospitality in her family for three generations, her grandfather and his brother ran one of Malaysia's real estate dynasties, Abigail's childhood obsession with hotels and how they work led her to walk the corridors, spying on housekeepers and their trolleys and asking constant questions of the back office staff. Joining the family business during summer breaks from school as an apprentice, Abigail became in 2014 St. Giles Hotel's head of UK, Europe and North America and later CEO. Housing rough sleepers in St. Giles London Hotel during the COVID pandemic was the spark for Abigail to launch Hotels with Heart in 2023.

3:19Among other work supporting the local community, the charity has since launched the St. Giles Hospitality Academy, aiming to empower and uplift marginalized people through training across every department in the hotel and support critically with finding employment. It's fabulous to have you here. Thank you. Thank you so much, Elliot. It's really a real pleasure and honor to be here. Thanks for having me in the studio. So hotels, we grew up as kids and we love different things. What was it about the hotels that grabbed you and that you said, this is going to be where I live, literally? You know, one of my earliest memories have been going to, growing up in Penang, there is a resort called the Shangri-La Rasasang by the beach.

3:59and we used to go there maybe one weekend a month for a weekend stay. And I just remember walking into the hotel, taking a deep breath in and just exclaiming, hotel. How old were you? I think it started from probably about six years old. Yeah. And I just loved the smell of the hotel. What does it smell like? What did it smell like? Because I think smell is one of the strongest senses known to humans. It was like a little bit woody, fresh. trash and I think it was just a mixture of one being on holiday and and being in this whole different world and my parents used to say the hardest part about getting me into the hotel was getting me out of the hotel so in order for me to leave they'd have to say we were going to another hotel and then I'd be okay and then I'd see the gates to our house when we got home and I'm like you lied to me and then this sense of you I can just visualize you wandering around the hotels and looking at everything going on behind the scenes, behind the curtains.

4:58When did that begin? I think it began quite soon after that when I started learning about the games that they had back there. So, you know, it'd be a beautiful day outside. Instead of playing outside, I'd be at the front desk pestering them like, what are you doing and why? A lot of why's, you know, at that age. Trying to see like, what games do you have back there? Can I go back there in the back office and see what you have? And just spending a lot of time, I think, being really curious about what happens in that back office world that makes all the magic happen in front the front end for us and the family always involved in property is that right yes and then hotels as well at that at that point were there when did that begin for the family began about 30 years ago so it started as a as a as a smaller investment i think or project with the owners of the shangri-la at the time and then just branched out into our own separate brands.

5:48And again, did you remember when the family made the decision to go into hotels? I don't. I think I was too young. But I remember part of the passion starting when I would go to construction sites with my father and just seeing how the one I remember vividly was the city to Penang when that was being built. It was on a very, very thin site. And so the pilings, just seeing the pilings go in, I was like, wow, because it's so it was so amazing to me how something could go from nothing to some steel and some a lot of dust to a hotel to a living breathing machine and do you think just very briefly do you think watching something being built from scratch was that a thing to you did you think i want to build things as well or was it not quite as literal as that i think some some of it because then i even now i love seeing how things get put together.

6:46Like, you know, if we're looking at this can of water, like, how does this aluminium bend like this? I used to love, there was a book, the magazines one called them, How It Works. How Things Work. How Things Work. Yeah, I remember. Used to read all the time. Me too. Like, even just paintbrushes, like, how they work. I remember dialysis machines and osmosis and things, crazy things. I'm like, ah, that's how it works. So you're one of those. You like to know how things work. I do. Like, I don't think I'm quite as obsessive about it anymore, otherwise my brain would just... It would explode. don't let it explode please don't explode for a while because you're going to be with me for a little bit longer Abigail Tan is my business shaper she's the CEO of the St.

7:20Giles Hotel Group you recently sold your hotel in London we did how does that feel it was a little soul crushing when it happened or during the entire process but now I think I think with everything in life you know we adapt we move on we grieve and I'm very proud of the way we left my tenure with the team. I miss them tremendously. Is it grief? Is there a bit of grief? Of course there is because they were like family to me. On the day I left I said you all are still family and anytime they need anything they're welcome to reach out. I've been there 16 years reshaping the culture building an entire management team from scratch and trying to change the organizational behavior and I was so proud of what we built there.

8:14And I think everyone could feel it. Other consultants or professionals who've come into our environment, they say, you know, they've been to so many other hotel groups and they've never seen a culture like this. And so I was so proud of what we had there. Let me ask you a couple of things that quickly spring to mind. The adapting part, the Abigail who's the adapter, do you think that's the immigrant thing? Do you think that's the being not at home where you were for 18 years in Malaysia? Is that just the sense of, I'm in a new place, but I quite like being in a new place and I'm just going to work this out.

8:45Is that what it is? It's an interesting question because I've never thought of myself as, I've never had my identity as an immigrant. I've just been. You're just Malaysian in your hair. Exactly. I'm just a person somewhere just, you know, trying to be who I am. I think the adapting has just come out of years of trying to figure out who I am as a leader, as a person, just a lot of life experience. Like I said, going through various loss and change and especially being in hospitality where you are forced to adapt quickly. Otherwise, otherwise you get left behind. So I think I wouldn't say I'm a pro at it.

9:23We never are. But I've definitely learned how to deal with having to adapt to changes quickly. So talking about adaptation, what's the main thing that you've had to change about yourself in terms of the way you're now a leader, the way you now behave as a leader? These are very deep questions for a morning show, Elliot. Luckily, I have some tissues in front of me. Definitely adapting as a leader and as a young leader. When I started out with my position, I was 24 years old and trying to navigate a world of various office politics, trying to find my place as where I fit in with this team, but also how I can be true to myself.

10:10and so a lot of my journey has been influenced by amazing coaches who've taught me how to listen to my intuition listen to my boundaries and set my boundaries and how to use them better it's taken a lot of years for me to get there but i think just knowing who i am and who i want to be as a leader and what my values are have helped to shape how i adapt to various scenarios so your own personal roadmap in a way and in terms of all the values because everyone we all think you know i think a lot about what are my values what's your number one most important value when you think about how you want to lead your life uh i think with integrity and with with honesty and and and the you know the most important thing to me is family so i say even at work and at home we function as a family at work i say we you know we we spend more time with each other than we do our own families most of it especially in hospitality so we we can fight we can play we can laugh we can love each other as family but at the end of the day you all have the same goal to to be harmonious well we try to be harmonious and i want to talk about family in a bit much more from my guest abigail tan coming up in a couple of minutes don't go anywhere this is just shapers with elliot moss in partnership with mishkondorea it's business but it's personal You can enjoy all our former business shapers on the Jazz Shapers podcast.

11:35And you can hear this very program again if you pop Jazz Shapers into your podcast platform of choice. My guest today is Abigail Tan, CEO of St. Giles Hotel Group and founder of the Hotels with Heart Foundation, a charity giving back to local communities. You talked about integrity and you talked about family. And when I was doing my usual research into the wonderful people that I get the privilege of meeting and spending some time with, family was absolutely zinging everywhere. It was popping in terms of you and where you sit, popping out massively. I was actually thinking lots of versions of family, your own children coming at some point soon, your parents, grandparents, there's the heritage of that, of the family over there.

12:18And then the family that you talk about creating in the work environment. I also thought about responsibility because what comes often in the cliched Asian family is this sense of responsibility to the bigger thing called the family and humility. just tell me a little bit about how responsibility and humility were for you as growing up in that family what did it mean how was that inculcated we continue with all these i can't help it abigail i'm drawn i know i'm just like this pseudo existential guy i know the therapy's free it's okay don't have to pay for this i'm not asking for cash it's fine we'll do that afterwards so say but but but tell me what where did it sit was it was it right there from the very beginning you are part of this family it means something it definitely has been since i've since a very young age um is what i've spent a lot of time in therapy trying to deconstruct um being the being the middle child of five the third of five i think growing up um i felt a lot of responsibility for my younger siblings uh to to to help to help take care of them and as as well as a and i remember there's quite clearly a responsibility for my two older sisters to try and help them get along better this was when we were younger and so from a young age it was just I think I found my position in the family as the one as the clown to make everyone laugh but also the one to try and hold it together between the siblings you're the harmonizer yeah yeah and it's it's funny because my siblings and I, we did this kind of workshop on who we are within the family and what our roles are.

13:59And all of them chose my role as the head of HR. I was like, thanks. We don't have to tell, you don't have to tell what they were, but how did that happen? Why did it, why did you think that became the truth? I think it's because I've been the more, sensitive one out of all of them. So I feel their emotions or their states more than what they feel. So you're outwardly, you're like the barometer in the room and you can see what the weather is and you're measuring it the whole time. And it affects me because part of my being and maybe why hospitality suits me is that I want everyone to be happy.

14:41Which is a fabulous driver by the way as much as it's exhausting and I think you wrote somewhere that you were the kind of the the the the private introvert or the kind of the person that you know you look like an extra but actually oh lord this is exhausting just leave me alone i now need to recover from all this harmony i'm bringing to the world i've it's taking it out of me right but that rang that rings true for a lot of people i think yeah yeah and someone said to me the other day there's actually a term for it now it's called an ambivert which describes exactly that okay yeah and in terms of then taking that into the work environment I mean, that's Nirvana, the CEO who's really in tune with all these emotions.

15:17Massive part of bringing out capability is, in fact, understanding people's emotional state. Yes, and I think that has helped me build a strong leadership team that I'm really proud of. Because to me, hospitality isn't just about, and leadership isn't just about someone giving orders from top. It's about understanding what drives people. What are their motivations? what is their state in the day because we can't all be expected to show up at work in perfectly happy and so it's it's about understanding each other's like how are you doing so sometimes we would start meetings going okay uh one word just talk to me about your mental emotional physical state right now and so around the around the room we understand okay you're a bit tired today you're a little bit anxious you're a bit upset so it just builds a lot of empathy between us and that's that's what I think helps to create understanding within the team.

16:11You talk about family. We've talked a bit about that. I wanted to talk about Uncle Steve. And you say there have been people that are important in my life. And Uncle Steve is the person in your life that seems to be a very important mentor. Was he actually an uncle? Was he just part of the team? He was part of the team. So he was, I guess, our hired COO at the time. Yes. But he was essentially someone that was your mentor in the business that basically showed you the ropes, but as you said, gave you lots of freedom as well. What do you remember about his approach that you now have passed on or kept and passed on to all the people that you oversee or have overseen?

16:50I think one of the qualities of him that really stood out was that he would let everyone have a voice and be able to share an opinion, whether he would listen to them or not. but he would make people feel important. And that I realized when I was his apprentice that what a quality that was. Also just, I think, his love for my family and his love for his family and how I saw him interacting with various people in the hotel shaped how I thought organizations should run and the hotel should run. And how did he manifest that? because we all know when we see someone being loving in a work environment, kind and generous.

17:41We all know it when we see it. But give me an example of what you saw, what he did. I think one of the things that stood out was that he knew everybody by name. So even if you are the dishwasher or a housekeeper, he would know everyone by name. And every day he would go and walk around the hotel and just to see what was going on, speak of the housekeepers, find out what were their issues and listen to them. And that impact, just thinking about impact more broadly, that impact it had on you and other people, you then obviously become one of the key drivers of the Hotels with Heart Foundation. And then within COVID as well, there was this whole moment where you said to Camden and to Westminster Council, I have rooms, there are homeless people, this is dangerous how can i help what can we do and homeless people become you know they get they get a home tell me can you trace back that kind of philanthropic kindness to some of the things uncle steve taught you yeah is that too much of a stretch no no no no it's not um i'm just trying to find the the i think the connection um or to the family i'm wondering where that giving back came from was that part again the family system that you grew up in as much as uncle steve uh The family have always been generous, but I think the idea for Hotels of Heart really started more from not just an idea of giving back, but how we could drive purpose and meaning into the culture of our team.

19:13And it was actually, it officially started during COVID. But then the idea I had really started more in like 2013, 2014, when that name Hotels of Heart, because I said, look, we're this big hotel occupying an island site. We impact so many people around us and we can have more positive impact. And why was that important to you? Because I felt that one, internally, it's good for the hotel as an organization to have a purpose. is good to give staff a purpose. And it's also important that we are not just a business here. We're serving the community. We are serving a wider goal of helping people. Because what I say also is that through the work we do is about building the hotelers of the future.

19:58How can we help someone who is maybe struggling to find work or struggling with direction and show them the wonderful world of hospitality and they say, I love this, and see them going from a dishwasher to being a manager to being a general manager one day. There's something about that that's just really inspiring. I'm going to pick up on this. I want to know more. Stay with me for my final chat with my guest there. It's Abigail Tan. And we've got some candy stat for you too. That's in just a moment. This is Jazz Shapers with Elliot Moss. In partnership with Mishkondorea. It's business, but it's personal.

20:36Abigail Tan is my business shaper. Not for very much longer though. No, you're going to be whistled off somewhere. But just before you do, I want to talk about inspiration and that ability to change lives. So yes, you've got this idea in your head, the Hotels with Heart Foundation. The hospitality academy that you've created is, as I understand it, helping a marginalized person, someone who's not got all the benefits that many people do have, to have the chance to train and to see the light and to be able to go from nothing to washer to head of whatever it might be. why does that give you joy and energy because obviously listen it gives all of us joy and energy to see someone not having an opportunity to have one but why you abigail and how have you managed to pull this thing off it brings me uh gives me joy and energy because the idea or the fact that through work that i've done and my team have done that we are able to impact the life positively impact the life and help somebody who otherwise may fall through the cracks.

21:37And there's something so powerful about seeing somebody flourish and building a life for themselves. And I really believe it's what we are here on this earth for. I feel it's what my purpose is also. It's just to help people. And I don't think it's speaking about it from a really egotistical place. It just fills me with a lot of joy, even if we don't talk about it, but seeing someone flourish, seeing someone who couldn't get a job because they didn't have enough experience or they'd previously been homeless or they'd been in jail, they didn't have education. And I say, you know, one thing that I always say in interviews is that personality you cannot teach, values you cannot teach, everything else in hotels you can teach.

22:25It's easy. so if you have the right mentality and if you have the right support i think it's so important and i think about me if i hadn't received the support that that i had from uncle steve from my family from my team um i wouldn't be able to to be the leader i am and i'm and the leader i'm trying to be i wouldn't have the freedom to think about how to be that leader and is the next chapter creating other leaders that can go off and then spread that joy and that focus on the dignity that you can give somebody who finds themselves in a role the the joy that you you know the self-belief and all that is that is that where this goes next it definitely is because i always say the saint giles shouldn't be abigail it should live far far far generations past me because how do we create the next leaders who can bring the values and the culture that we shake now into the future continue to do to do good or to yeah to be an organization that we're proud of and generations and years from now when i'm looking down i'll be really proud and how do you ensure that happens because we people talk about a thousand year view yeah of life and it's again it's a kind of an east an eastern view of the world or an asian view of the world which i love how does that happen in real in just really shortly but in in practical terms uh for me it's about I think stewardship and ownership over the over the business finding those people who who really embody the culture and the values that we're trying to build and build them up and support them through it and show them how they are important why the work that they do is important and just continuing to to find these little I guess nuggets of joy in people finding out what makes you happy about your job, about doing your job, what are you good at, what makes you wake up in the morning to come to work, and using that as a way to lift them up into the positions that people need to be in.

24:23Because I say sometimes we go into a job for the sake of having a job, which a lot of people have to, but it doesn't mean that you cannot thrive within that organization. And I say there's nowhere more beautiful than hotels to do that, because you can do anything in a hotel. You can go from housekeeping, you can learn finance, you can learn human resources. And that's really beautiful. So I think continuing to find who are the talent who can drive forward and continue to teach them. Because, you know, in 20 years, 30 years, I might retire, who knows? And it's who can you trust to be the steward or the guardian of the business moving forward?

25:04And young people are so important. And I love that. Are you still the small girl, age six, walking around that hotel, smelling the wood and feeling the freshness of the air? Is that still the thing that excites you? I definitely am. Just an example, I was at an intuition leadership retreat two weeks ago, and I walked into this hotel, beautiful 13-bedroom, small boutique hotel, and I was like, oh, I like this. I bought the diffusers. Of course, they had the diffusers. I had to buy them. They were too expensive. but it's now in my home because I walk in and the minute I smell it, well, right now I don't smell much because of the sinusitis, but the minute I walk into my home, it reminds me of the time that I had at that retreat.

25:52And I walk into a hotel and I immediately feel, I do feel like a little girl again because I just get excited, especially if it's a nice hotel. The first three seconds, it's like when you meet someone, the first seven seconds are the crucial ones. For me, a hotel, the first seven seconds are also crucial. So it doesn't smell good. Keep away. Yes. It's been brilliant talking to you, Abigail. Thank you so much. And thank you for spending some time with us. Enjoy being a mum. I know you do. But also what I've loved is the small girl, Abigail, who's still there, which I hope is all, you know, that for me is a massive point about being joyful about the thing that you do.

26:29And that's a good place to be. Just before I let you go, what's your song choice and why have you chosen it? my song choice is crossroad by robert johnson i chose it because when i was doing my ib in penang international baccalaureate international baccalaureate and and doing my the music course we were asked to choose to choose a piece and back then i was also playing a lot of like guitar and a lot of blues and so i chose that song which is actually we had to deconstruct the entire thing as part of our music course it was one of the hardest things that i've ever had to do but I just remember buying so many books trying to trying to study it and so it just brings back a lot of memories of school maybe going back to being young again.

27:12Robert Johnson with Crossroads the song choice of my business shape today Abigail Tan she talked about a leadership style that puts the drive behind how people behave primary in her mind when she's thinking about how she leads a team she talked about making people feel important and listened to. And she loved watching people flourish. I absolutely love that. And finally, a brilliant mindset, which is about long-term sustainable stewardship of a business. It's not about tomorrow. It's about the next 10 years, the next 50 years, and indeed the next 500 years. That's it from Jazz Shapers. Have a lovely weekend.

27:48Jazz Shapers on Jazz FM. In partnership with Mishkondorea. It's business, but it's personal. We hope you enjoyed that edition of Jazz Shapers. You'll find hundreds more guests available for you to listen to in our archive. To find out more, just search Jazz Shapers on iTunes or your favorite podcast platform, or head over to mishcon.com forward slash Jazz Shapers. Chicago talks a lot. Hold on, let me step over here. People are talking too much. We debate about food, deep dish, tavern style, who's got the best beef. We yell across rooms, across blocks, across generations. Yes, nice earrings, Grammy.

28:26And now we're doing it on our phones too. Video calls from the L train, group chats that never shut up. Neighbors texting you the score before your TV catches up. Come on! Get a load of this guy. Catch up on a dog. Yeah, we've got thoughts. Too loud? In Chicago, you're gonna hear it. Because nothing here gets built without conversation. Nothing moves without connection. So if you think you know AT &T, it might be time to rethink that. Because their network has improved, like, a lot. So Chicago can keep speaking its mind with AT &T Wireless and AT &T Fiber. Chicago won't stop talking. Our improved network backs it up.

29:04AT &T. Connecting changes everything. AT &T Fiber. Limited availability in select areas.