Inventor and author William Kamkwamba and serial entrepreneur Tom Rielly

0:00My name is Shannon Maldonado. I'm the founder of Yaoi, a gift shop from the lens of artists and handmade objects. I chose Shopify because when I was testing other platforms, it was definitely one of the most user-friendly. It was important to me to think about where we would be in the future. All of the tools for reading your sales, like planning inventory, are just right there on your dashboard. For anyone starting a small business, the biggest thing I can tell you is it doesn't have to be perfect. Shopify can help you build upon it. Start your free trial on Shopify.com. From Geico Subconscious News, I'm Tammy Racing Thoughts, broadcasting from your brain.

0:32You think you live in a pretty safe place, but you just heard about a break in four miles away, which isn't close, but it isn't far either, you know? Art Palpitations is on the scene. I sure am, Tammy, and I don't even know why I drove out here, because as you know, you got customized renter's insurance through Geico, so your stuff is covered. Oh, well, that's great. Any sign of crime there, Art? Just some light littering, Tammy, but like they say, a little litter can lead to a lot. Wise words. It feels good to worry less. It feels good to Geico. Welcome to the Jazz Shapers podcast from Mishkondorea.

1:01What you're about to hear was originally broadcast on Jazz FM. However, the music has been cut due to rights issues. The world's greatest jazz, soul and blues. From the world's greatest artists. This is Jazz FM. Jazz Shapers with Elliot Moss in partnership with Mishkondorea. It's business, but it's personal. Welcome to Jazz Shapers with me, Elliot Moss, bringing the shapers of the business world together with a musician shaping jazz, soul and blues. My guests today are inventor and author William Konkwamba and serial entrepreneur Tom Riley, co-founders of the Moving Windmills Project, an NGO empowering young changemakers in rural Malawi.

1:44Having been forced to drop out of school during a famine, 14-year-old William's fascination with a photo of a windmill in a library book and how it could pump water drove him to try and solve his family's problems by building his own windmill using cast-off materials from the junkyard. Despite everyone telling him he'd fail, the profound success of William's windmill brought him to the attention of Tom Riley, creator of the International TED Fellows Program, which supports young innovators to expand the reach and impact of their ideas. William went on to graduate from the African Leadership Academy, then Dartmouth College in the US, and with Tom's support, William's memoir, The Boy Who Harnessed the Wind, was followed by a 2019 film of the same name, directed by and starring Chiwetel Ejiofor as William's dad.

2:26And now the Royal Shakespeare Company, no less, have adapted William's story into a musical theatre show arriving in London this month. And meanwhile, William and Tom are developing their Moving Wimbleds Innovation Centre, a space dedicated to tools, mentorship, and international experimentation where young people can create scalable, self-reliant solutions for their communities. It's lovely to have you here. Welcome. Thank you. It's good to be here. Easy to just, as people do in the world of business and brands, just say, and here's the story. The story is William's life. It is your life and things happened.

2:59Can we just go back, for those people that don't know, and just tell me in 2001, I think it was 2001, on what was going on in Malawi? And you were like a 14-year-old, I believe. So in 2001 in Malawi, we experienced a drought. That drought, that led into a famine, the biggest famine in the country's history for many, many years. It was very devastating famine. It was very hard. A lot of people were starving. A lot of people died due to famine. So that time, even my family was badly affected by the situation. And what did you do about it? The young boy, I think of when I was 14 and I have got some children.

3:44They've all been 14. They are kids and they were enjoying school and they were playing and they weren't thinking about stuff that was going to happen that was tough because their childhoods were not tough. What was going on for you? So during that time when the famine was happening, It was also the same time that I was supposed to start secondary school. In Malawi, secondary school, you have to pay for school fees. Because of the situation, my parents couldn't afford to pay for my education. I was forced to drive out of school. When I had to drive out of school, I looked at my father and looking at those dry fields.

4:20That wasn't the future that I could have expected. I didn't want to become like my father. I didn't want to become a farmer. It's not that I didn't want to become a farmer because I hate farming. No, I love farming, but I didn't want to become a farmer because of the circumstances that I'm in, which is the case to majority of the people. They are not farmers by choice. They are farmers because of the circumstances. Their only hope is to grow enough food that they can feed their family. And if they are lucky, they can have surplus that they can send their kids to school. So during that time when I couldn't go to school, I started thinking, what can I do in order to continue with my studies?

5:00I decided to start going to the library to read books. I just want to keep up with my schoolwork. And during my visit to the library, that's when I came across several books. One of the books that attracted my attention, it was the book called Using Energy. It had pictures of the windmill on the cover. When I opened inside, they said windmill could pump water and generate electricity. The word pump water attracted my attention. I said, if I can build a windmill to pump water, I will start irrigation, growing food two to three times a year. I thought that would be a solution to the problem that we're facing.

5:40So that's how I decided to build the windmill. Makes it sound like that's what you would do if you were a 14-year-old kid wherever you're in the world. Of course, William did that. Nobody believed, Tom Riley, that it was actually going to work. Exactly. I mean, when William started tinkering with all this junk in the junkyard, the villagers, you heard, called him crazy and possessed, and there's no way you can succeed. And that culture was not and is not a standout, don't stick out. You just revert to the means. And he stuck out by a mile. And given the village's opposition, that could have been one reason he gave up, or the famine, or the drought, or the floods, or the political violence, or the environmental degradation.

6:25And he overcame all of those things despite what the village thought. And this song perfectly encapsulates their views in a not as serious as I just mentioned way. You met William in 2007, I think, is that right? That's correct. And did you know, so the thing you described, and William, I'm going to ask you, because I want to find out why you didn't give up, because I want to know what was going on in your head and your heart. What was your impression of William when you first met him? If you can remember that very first time, this emotionally, what did you feel? So William came to the conference at the behest of my colleague Emeka, who read about him on a blog, who I'm now good friends with every single person in the chain of William.

7:07And he came to our TED conference in Arusha, Tanzania. And TED allegedly stands for Technology, Interpretation and Design. and it brings people together to talk about ideas. So I saw this kid standing in the corner looking terrified, and I see myself as a host. So I went over and said, my name's Tom Riley, who are you? And he said, my name is William Kumquamba. And I said, I know who you are. And we had basically a very halting 15-minute conversation when I just had a eureka moment. I was like, this kid can make a huge impact in the world. The first 15 minutes. And I'm not joking, I'm not exaggerating, that's exactly what I thought.

7:42Why did you think that, Tom? Because he told me what he did. I had no idea. I mean, I read from my friend. I read a little bit. But he explained to me what he did and the context and the background. And I said, wow, that is a story. If he could share that story with a lot of people, that would be a really good thing. So then I convinced my boss at TED to put him on the stage. Initially, the boss said, no, he doesn't speak English. We didn't have time. This is too last minute, blah, blah, blah. And I was not to be deterred. and when he spoke on the stage, well, I'm not going to tell you what he said because you might want him to say what he said, but let's just say he made a sizable impression and then after the conference, rather than go home, I went to Malawi.

8:24What did you say on that stage, William? One thing that I said on that stage, it was I tried and I made it. So I was referring to the making of the windmill when I got some information about windmill, I decided to build it. I went to the junkyard, picking up pieces that I needed for my windmill, and I did try. I made it. This became the leitmotif of the entire complex. I tried, I made it. Everybody was saying that to each other. But the thing, all this stuff going on around you, the political stuff, the keep your head below the parapet, the fact you're 14 years old at the time, do you look back now and go, who was that boy?

9:09Do you know that boy? So sometimes I do look back, but I think I'm lucky to have some strong people in my life that inspired me and motivated me because what I was going through could have simply stopped me from achieving what I achieved at that moment. I think when I started thinking of building the windmill, one other thing, when people are saying, it won't work, it's not going to happen. This is just like you are going crazy. The one thing that I keep asking myself, what do people think when the late brothers were thinking of building an airplane, saying that we're going to build a machine that will be flying like a bird?

9:58that time I think people might think like they were insane. So in myself I said, if the windmill exists somewhere else in the world, it means that a human being like me built it. I can also be able to build the same thing regardless of what people are saying. Even if I will fail, I'm not going to be the first person to fail. But if I'm not going to do anything with the problem that we are facing right now, nobody else is going to come to solve my problem for me. I still have to go and do something about it. I think I read somewhere, and you'll tell me if I'm right or not, your grandma said, solve your own problems.

10:39Yeah. Is that right? That's right. My grandma is also one of very inspirational persons in my life because in Malawi there's this division of labor. There's some work, they say it's for men, some for women, quote-unquote, the work that is considered to be for men making bricks if you want to build a house. Of course, it's a tough job. They consider that can be done by men. But my grandma started doing it on her own. A lot of people were asking her, why are you doing this instead of your husband? Her response, a little inspired me. She said that when your growth caught on fire, you don't wait for somebody to put it off.

11:22You are the one, you first feel the heat. So if you are feeling the heat, You should try to put it off. And somebody far away, they can see that you are struggling. They can come along and help you. So just listening that if you have a problem, you know your problem better than anyone else. You should always try to come up with a solution and other people might come along and help you. But if you don't do anything, nobody is going to solve your problem for you. Stay with me for much more from my guests today. William Kwamba and Tom Riley. They're back in a couple of minutes, and I'm sure you've been inspired already because I have much more coming up from them very shortly.

12:00This is Jazz Shapers with Elliot Moss in partnership with Mishkondorea. It's business, but it's personal. You can enjoy all our former business shapers on the Jazz Shapers podcast, and you can catch this very program again if you pop the words jazz and shapers. I know it's complicated, isn't it? Into your favorite podcast platform. My guests today are inventor and author William Kankwamba and serial entrepreneur Tom Riley, co-founders of Moving Wimbles Project, an NGO empowering young problem solvers in rural Malawi. You were talking earlier, William, and again, I asked you to cast your mind back to being 14.

12:39I find listening to you I mean and anyone that's seen the movie anyone that's read the book and I'm sure people that go and watch the piece of theatre will be very moved are you moved or do you distance yourself from your own life and achievements? I'm moved I'm also like moved myself I think one thing that I'm very excited to have to get my story being told through the musical I'm excited because my goal was to share my story with the rest of the world. Maybe people might learn something. Completely people, they have a different background than my own background. But my hope is that my story might inspire them to do something in their own communities, regardless of what their circumstances might be.

13:34I do feel very proud and excited to receive email from a person that I've never met before. I don't even know. Say that because of your story, I was able to go back to school. I'm graduating right now, getting my engineering degree. Or I started a program in my community because you inspired me to do so. To me, it's very exciting. and seeing now like we can be able to share this story with other people in musical form, to me it's very, very exciting. Tom Williams mentioned the word communities a few times and when I was thinking about meeting the two of you, I remember something that one of the people I've worked with says, which is you help your own communities.

14:23That's where it starts. Whatever your technical skill is, you help your own communities. your community, the LGBTQIA plus community, make sure I get that right. You founded two businesses in there, multiple businesses actually, but two that I'm aware of, Digital Queers, Planet Out, for example. What's it like to do stuff for your community, for you? Is it important? Well, yeah. I mean, there's a responsibility. I came of age when the HIV crisis was starting, So it started kind of my senior year of high school, and then when I became a young person leaving school and leaving my parents' home for the first time, I could see what was happening, and I was also terrified.

15:12And so I wasn't doing a lot of AIDS service organizations, but I was taking care of my friends who were sick. But out of that came, we're not going to put up with this BS about people not liking us because we're gay, lesbian, etc. And my friend Michelangelo Signorelli, who's an author and radio host on Sirius Satellite Radio in America, he inspired me. He's like, go get him. And I was part of a movement called Queer Nation. And that was about reappropriating the word queer and going out in the world and doing stuff like having kiss-ins at the Embarcadero in San Francisco and actions. It's very much based on the ACT UP methodology, but about gay rights and stuff.

15:59So I was a helper. I was just part of it then. But what I realized is I had the tech background and I had the queer background. And I was like, why don't we put them together? because I had friends, a whole community of friends in the tech world, and I went to them and said, like, can you guys come together and help us redo the computer infrastructures of the national queer organizations in America? And they said yes, and it was like Stone Soup. Do you know the story of Stone Soup? Okay, well, you put a stone... Yes, of course, yes. Keep adding stuff. So I was the rock, and then I got everybody to put in software and hardware and computers, and we had a fabulous party when people looked around at the party and said, oh, I thought you were, or God, I've always had a crush on him, or wow, those two are married, I have no idea.

16:46But we did create a community, and my background, over and over I've tried to create communities of people, and it's the only way you can change anything. And just on the invention thing, because I'm talking to two of you, serial entrepreneur, inventor, the art, the act of creation for you, the hold on a minute I've got this idea I'm going to build a windmill I'm going to build a community did you find in talking to each other that you approach things very similarly or very differently it's similarly the way like the approaching of like doing things I think he afterwards when you come up with like an idea you want to build like something that the certification is that he that thing that you are working on, it solved a problem.

17:35To me, it's always when that happens, it's always very exciting because I put up my mind to do this. I'm not looking in terms of what might go wrong, but I'm always what to look like after that thing is being done, it's being achieved. Like a visualization basically. And for Tom? I would say that We both share this idea of you can think up an idea that's big enough to turn into something and then pursue it against all odds. In his case, way bigger odds than me. In my case, just had to work really hard. And everyone's like, your gay online service, plan it out. That could never work. You'll never get venture capital.

18:19You'll never do this. You'll never do that. And I was like, okay. The proof is in the doing it, right? But I think that that ability to come up with the idea and then decide you're going to pursue it no matter what is the mark of an entrepreneur. I think of William as very entrepreneurial. And I've been entrepreneurial since I was a kid. And so I have such respect for his amazing story and his amazing skills that he inspired me so much. And hopefully I did a little bit back. But there's so much that I've learned from William that I never would have known if I hadn't met him. when you met William you had a moment that said hold on a sec there's something special about this guy and you you just knew I did you did and now we're almost 20 years later and you're still talking to each other which is good that's a net like it's a long longer than that but it's much more than that you're working together you're doing things together talk to me a little bit about the early days and the relationship of officially the mentor of William and then I want to come to William and flip something?

19:21Well, one of the things that blew me away about William is how he's in control of his own destiny. He has a sense of what he wants to do. And because he knows, I knew I could help him do what he wanted to do, meaning to share his story with the entire world. And there's a lot of people in the world, young or old, who don't have any idea of what they want. So it's easier to help people that you know are important. And my philosophy in life is help the spark plugs. So if I mentor the spark plug, then William's, you know, his story from the book that Brian Mueller and William Campoba wrote and the other expressions, you know, they've reached at least 200 million people.

20:04So I feel like that's an incredibly great investment of my time, let alone the fact that he's part of my family now. How has it changed you, Tom? Well, people are like, oh my God, you've spent so much energy on William. I was like, do you just not have a brain? I've gotten far more back from William than I've ever given him. And I've learned about humility. I've always had, you know, at least middle class resources. I've never lacked for food or energy. And to me, William's story is an against all odds story of overcoming adversity. But in his case, like really severe adversity only to triumph in the end.

20:48And he somehow gave me the sense of that. And I just knew, like right away I knew. I became kind of obsessed with the notion of helping him. But I was like, we need to go and talk to your parents before we do anything. And so we did. And I was like, what do you want for William? And they said, we want the best education possible. It's like every other parent in the entire world. And I was able to help a little bit with that. But the thing I like is we became allies with his family before we whisked him off to do anything, because that would have been wrong. And from your perspective, William, once you've experienced famine and you see your family suffering and you're a young kid, everything else, surely, however hard it was at Dartmouth, however hard the challenges have been since, all the different things that I won't ever know about your life that you've have been challenging for you.

21:42Surely in the perspective of what is essentially life and death, everything else is easier. Is that true? Yeah, it's true. I think to me, going through the hunger, it was one of very difficult. I think I have learned a lot from it. Sometimes you just have to stay positive. All like the challenges that I'm facing nowadays, I'm telling myself that the challenges, sometimes they're just there to strengthen you, to make you grow in everything that you do. as much as you know if you want to get from point A to point B, as much as you know where that point B is, you're going to always going to get there.

22:25Sometimes you have to climb over a whistleblower or sometimes you have to go around it. But as much as you know, you're going to be able to get there. So that is obviously true. But when it's really you and you're having to do that every time, that must be hard. That's exhausting. It is very hard. And I think at some point you might think like maybe I should just give up. Maybe I should just keep my feet up. Yeah, like give up. But what stops you? What stops you giving up, William? What stops me giving up, it's like for the unknown. To me, I call it like unknown. Because when I'm trying to do something, if I give up now, Now I'm not going to know what the outcome that I would have get afterwards.

23:14But now if I give it up, I'm not going to be able to know what would have come out of it because I haven't tried yet. So I need to get to the end of it and see if it doesn't actually work. It's not like I'm going to be the first person to fail in the world like they have people that have failed before. but once you do like that fair, you learn something through it and next time if you're going to try like to do it again or do something else, you're going to know which route to take. You know like this route maybe because of A, B, C, Z, it's not like the light route for me. I should try now like this other route.

23:56So it's always motivated me and encouraged me to continue trying it out. He just loves to get to know. That's what it is. I've unearthed it. Finally, that's what he just wants to know. Sorry, Tom, go for it. No, I'm just kidding. Discovery is a huge part of William's story. He's learning things from pieces of junk, from trees, from everything. He is so curious and never stopped being curious. Stay with me for my final chat. My guest today is William Conquamba and Tom Riley. And we've got some Taj Mahal for you, too. That's in just a moment. Don't go anywhere. this is jazz shapers with elliot moss in partnership with mishkondorea it's business but it's personal i'm just for a few minutes very lucky because i have tom and william with me we've been talking about all sorts of things and obviously this is around the moving windmills world and in the moving windmills world there is of course the small matter william of the piece of musical theater it's just been on the first run at stratford uh you've seen a few you've had the premiere, what does it feel like to see your life in front of you?

25:04It's very exciting to see it now in a musical. For me, like personally, because it's a story about me. I'm living the past that was exciting, the past that was hard going through the hunger. But overall, I think I'm very happy with the work that the actors have put up, the producers. So to see it actually playing and seeing the response from audience, young people coming to watch it, I'm very happy. Not strange, is it not slightly surreal, William? Because, I mean, obviously the movie six years ago was a big hit. There's a small thing of the book. I mean, if someone was writing behind me, I'd find it like an out-of-body experience.

25:53But for you, have you kind of got used to it? It's not quite getting used to it, but I think at the same time, you see at some point it being like, is this little happening? You think like you are dreaming, but it's it. Most of them just happy because that was the goal to me was to share the story with the list of the world. And having this form, telling the story in this form, it's even more exciting because it's sort of like live people. acting like live there, the emotional, much emotional story, seeing what I went through or building like the windmill, seeing that brings up the memories of me like doing that work and seeing somebody being able to imitate that on the stage.

26:48It's not like a very easy thing, but seeing the work that they're doing, I'm happy. Do you still feel or do you feel more pressure now than you have over the years? Does it get bigger, the responsibility you have? Or are you more relaxed in your role as the inventor and the kind of the person in the story and the person having impact? I feel more relaxed. I think what is making me like to feel more relaxed because I know myself that I can't do everything else by myself. but how do we bring in other people to be able to continue doing like a good work to solve some of the challenges. That's why we are working with a lot of young people with the moving windmills right now, wanting to build the Innovation Center, a space where we can be able to invite young people to do some work.

27:43Because to me, what I really want to do with my life, it's like, how can I make impact solving the problem that people are facing in Malawi or in the world in general? But I think knowing that I can't do anything by myself, but how do we bring in other young people in order to be able to achieve such type of goals? And for you, Tom, here we are bringing you in because you've been involved with William for many, many years. The Moving Windmills Innovation Center, which William mentioned, movingwindmills.org, I believe is the right URL, I hope. Good. Tell me a little bit about the plans that are afoot for the Innovation Center.

28:27Well, first of all, I think it's amazing that over 20 years later, William is saying the same thing, that he wants to use his story to help others. Now, we call that positioning in the marketing business. And I mean, he is stuck to his guns. It's pretty remarkable. Let me say one other thing. The musical, there have been three instantiations in the media of William, right? There's the book that he co-wrote with Brian Mueller, who was at the time a journalist. And if Brian hadn't reported on all these events, I never would have known about them. He's insanely skilled at getting people to share their stories.

29:05And then there's the Chiwetel adapting the book into film, and that kind of shows a more exterior view. But the musical, the genre of musical lends itself to emotion. Music, dance, it lets you get into people's hearts and to really understand. And to me, you can understand a whole new level of the story. But when I look at the top level, I see a fable, a true fable that is so resilient that it can manifest in all these different media and make the very difference that William's hoping for. So Moving Windows Project, I would say that William had to do everything by himself at the time. He was totally isolated, no support from the village.