Serial entrepreneur Heather Frankham

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0:30Saturday, September 26th, two of combat sports' most dangerous strikers collide. Bare Knuckle. Liverpool's own Darren the Gorilla Till goes to war with Cuban powerhouse Yoel Soldier of God Romero. Plus, the Bare Knuckle Middleweight Championship of the World is on the line when the reigning champ Dave the Redneck Mundell defends against undefeated British challenger Jack the Meat Cleaver Cullen. BKFC 94. Till vs. Romero. Watch it live only on DAZN. Sign up now at DAZN.com. Welcome to the Jazz Shapers podcast from Mishkondorea. What you're about to hear was originally broadcast on Jazz FM. However, the music has been cut due to rights issues.

1:13This is Jazz Shapers with Elliot Moss on Jazz FM. In partnership with Mishkondorea. It's business, but it's personal.

1:26Listen in colour. Welcome to Jazz Shapers with me, Elliot Moss, bringing the shapers of the business world together with the musicians shaping jazz, soul, and blues. My guest today, I'm extremely pleased to say, is serial entrepreneur Heather Francom, founder of Lifetime Training, an apprenticeship provider, and Origin Workspace, a co-working space, and she's the founder of Bud, an apprenticeship management company. Beginning her career as a PE teacher, it was through teaching adults aerobics in the evenings that Heather was offered a contract covering the gym and fitness programs for the Whitbread Hospitality Group.

1:55Having asked her to consult on Whitbread's apprenticeship training program and seeing a growth opportunity in the market, Heather founded Bristol-based Lifetime Training in 1995, a training specialist. Starting as a sole trader, she grew the business into one of the largest apprenticeships and skills training businesses in the UK with a team of more than 1 ,000 people delivering training to the fitness, leisure, hospitality, and care sectors. After exiting in 2016, Heather set up Origin Workspace, a Bristol co-working hub aiming to foster collaboration, innovation, and well-being, with profits reinvested into the Origin Foundation, supporting local charities focused on giving young people the best possible start.

2:32What a life, Heather Francom. I felt like saying this is your life, but it isn't. That is a reference if you're of a certain age, there's a red book and it's Eamon Andrews. But seriously, wow, so many things. I meet lots of people and obviously we're going to get into this, but let's start somewhere. You became a teacher. Why? Oh, I did. First of all, I wanted to be a doctor, actually. That was my initial passion and I was sort of following sciences at school with that goal in mind. During my time at school, I got invited to sort of help teach in the PE department. And I really loved it. And for me, that being able to make a difference to people, seeing that connection, you know, often people that came in not happy and not buzzy, but actually you could do something with them and send them out with that energy and enthusiasm for other things.

3:27And I think that's part of what took me into teaching. I wanted to make that difference and make that difference to young people. I think I was lucky enough to have some amazing experiences at school, but also some not so amazing experiences at school and to feel that difference. So I went in very idealistically, I guess, as a teacher, believing that things could be done better. A lot of kids from where you came from did not go to secondary school and then a lot of kids, you know, they did other things. How come you ended up in that place that you did? Was that a family thing? Yeah, I think...

4:08Because working class background. Yeah, absolutely. You know, both of my parents were bright and had to strive through life to achieve things. My dad had polio when he was younger. I was in hospital for two years and so was always catching up. But his determination, he couldn't use his left arm. But I never saw my dad as different when I was growing up because he always sought to do everything that everybody else was doing, whether that was riding a bike, playing golf one-handed. and so that I think set a pathway for me. It was always about what you could do, not what you couldn't do. So I can't, was not allowed in our family.

4:56You know, there was always a way to be able to do something and to achieve something. You mentioned something in school before I go on to the moment when I think I read somewhere that you said, I kind of wanted a sports car, I realised that and I couldn't do that teaching. What were those not so good experiences at school? You mentioned them. I'd be really interested to know what it was that wasn't so good. And how has that informed your worldview? I think as children go through a certain age, it's all about establishing identity. And for me, being in a school, there was an awful lot that was about trying to get people to conform.

5:39and I think children can actually be quite mean to each other at times so and you know what you're wearing and whether that's the right thing or not the right thing and that influences hugely what you're able to do within that school so the school I was in um it was not cool to actually be bright and do well in things and so there was always that sort of tension between do you get on do you do you really focus on what you're doing and achieve or do you conform and actually fit into the the group and the norms that were actually expected and which one were you do you know what the so i bounced between the two so you know i would try to do both of those things to to achieve but also to fit into a group and that's quite a challenge um but you spotted you needed to the in a way you were kind of ambidextrous like hold on a minute there's a moment when I do need to be conventional and there's another moment where I say if I do that I'm suppressing who I really am yeah and actually that is one of the things I think for entrepreneurs that you've always got two different drivers so for me that there was a belief that you could make a difference and that you could succeed but I guess on the flip side of that there was always that fear of failure and I think that those bits of juggling different agendas different things in life if you embrace it and step into that actually it can help you to achieve the best fit in the middle well this is and it's funny you say that so then I go back to my point about the teacher who becomes a business person and obviously in the world of learning yeah so there is a link but at what moment did you go I'm gonna you know obviously the whip bread thing happened and you were offered this this opportunity firstly what did they see in you and secondly what did you see in yourself as those years went by when you must have started to believe that actually you were going to be a successful entrepreneur and what did they see in me I'm not quite sure what they saw in me they probably saw somebody that was very determined to achieve something so that sort of quiet confidence about actually we can do something here and not willing to sort of step back when challenges were put in place.

8:07So with Whitbread, for example, how did I get to apprenticeships? I got to apprenticeships because we'd started a journey which was all about training and developing their staff. They loved what was happening, but then all of a sudden budgets got cut. So, you know, I was forced, you know, I just started this business, really exciting in the fitness industry. It was a fantastic environment to be in. And then all of a sudden, the person paying the bills was saying, we would love to do more of this, but we don't have a budget for it. And so it was then that I went out and found that budget through education and skills.

8:46And the apprenticeships had just started at the time. So learn a whole new sort of vocabulary around funded training and qualifications in the further education space and brought those two together to be able to deliver what Whitbread wanted. So that commercial drive from there, but also marry that with, I guess, government agendas and funding agendas. And how do you bring those together to achieve what you want to achieve? the jigsaw was was put together by heather franken which is what entrepreneurs do really well spot patterns and then go and actually make it real we're going to be finding out much more from heather about this unusual combination of skills that she has this ability to juggle much more coming up from her shortly right now we're going to irritate her from the mishcon innovation series which can be found on all the major podcast platforms lydia kellett invites business founders to share their industry insights and practical advice for those of you thinking directly about getting into an industry and starting your very own thing and this clip focused on the edtech industry.

9:45We hear from Chris Carla, co-founder and CEO of Kinu, a gamified learning app designed to increase the rate of knowledge acquisition. The Mishcon Innovation Series. Inspiration from founders of cutting-edge businesses. In association with Jazz Shapers with Mishcon Derea. I think one thing that's interesting in edtech, but in startups in general, is that even if it's not a good time to raise capital, that shouldn't impact the ambition that you have in the long term. The weird thing is that if you want to do something that's truly bold or will have a lot of impact and education, like really, I think impactful education startups feel like that because there's so much opinion and so much like momentum about how things should be done, then I think you should always just ignore the state of the market and just do the thing that really inspires you.

10:38And don't be scared to do something bold. Sometimes doing something bolder when the market is bad is easier because you'll just you'll stand out from the crowd of people trying to do something safe and so i think now is a great time to start something in learning or education because of that the mishcon innovation series in association with jazz shapers with mishcon d 'orea jazz shapers on jazz fm in partnership with mishcon d 'orea It's business, but it's personal.

11:36and probably a million other things as well. So it's not enough. Maybe we'll do a day-long session with you, Heather. I want to go back to the sale of Lifetime Training. I think you sold the business in 2016, so it's a while ago now. Anyone I've ever spoken to, and I've spoken to the privilege of speaking to many people, talks about the emotional rollercoaster that is the sale of a business. You're here nine years later. Usually the benefit of time softens the emotions. If you can cast your mind back, though, what were the two or three things that were going around at that moment and what's lasted i i think the lucky bit for me was that i had a period of time from partially selling the business where i moved from ceo to exec chair to non-exec chair and and then to non-exec director and i had five years really to prepare for exiting the business so i always knew that i was going to exit alongside private equity.

12:36And it was how I got there. And I went through lots of different emotions, I guess, during that time as you step back from what has been your baby, which has been such a key part of your life. And actually that shaped who you were to go, well, actually, who am I now? So if I'm not, if that business is not me, if you're not in charge of 1000 people and 40 million pounds a turnover whatever it might be who is Heather and who was Heather or who is Heather and it took me a while to actually to work through and find that out and I you know I thought that I would be able to you know I went away with that dream of saying I would love to put some money into charity and to support new entrepreneurs because that was my skill set I was a teacher and I believed I had lots of patience.

13:28And actually, that was the most challenging thing in the world to do. So as an entrepreneur that built this business, it was actually really difficult to find the right businesses to invest in and to understand that I always wanted a charitable donation to do more than just a finite amount of things. It was always about how you could actually scale that and make that sustainable. And I think probably if I look back, what's inside of me is that I'm always interested in how you scale and how you sustain things so that you can keep those going. And they don't just stop when an initial project or something is actually finished.

14:17I read somewhere that you lost your mum very young. I think you were 31. which is you know I lost my dad a couple of years ago and you know obviously in my 50s and still you know you don't there's not a day that goes by where it doesn't really hit you and you know you're able at this age to cope with that much better but at 30 31 you don't have that life experience and I read also that you thought about just sort of stopping whatever you were doing how did you decide not to or why did you decide not to and what did that experience give you? As you go through, you know, as you will know from your own experience, losing a parent is hugely challenging, especially when you're still shaping yourself and learning who you are.

15:08But what I will always remember is, you know, I had huge gifts from my mum and she was always so intuitive actually about seeing things and you know she always had those insights at the right times so I remember talking to her as she was going through chemotherapy at the time and I'd had a really really challenging day and was worried about what competitors were doing and we just didn't have the financial resources to do the same level of advertising and everything else and and she just sort of very quietly said it's um all you can do is to do your best um to put that energy into something you can't control what they do but do your best and it might go wrong but actually if you know that you've put your all into something then um You know, that's all you can do.

16:11And actually, after she died, I was very close to actually, could I, did I have the energy to keep the business going? We were in a challenging position from a cash perspective. but I took myself away on holiday to make that decision and I either had to put the small amount of money she'd left me 10 ,000 pounds into the business to pay the salaries at the end of the month or I needed to fold the business and I went away on holiday I took six books away on my own with a view that I needed to make that decision while I was away and I didn't read any of the books I think I might have read six pages because the people that I met on that holiday were just that connection with others and then just remembering on the way back on the plane what my mum had said of all you can do is to do your best and that fired me to say I am going to put that money into the business and I will do my best to pull this business through and make a success of it.

17:25So it's her words, really, that took me through that challenging time and a great team that were actually around me and being able to say to them, I can't promise I'm going to be at my best at the moment, but we are going to do this by pulling together. And you really see the power of a team then to support each other and to support me as a leader as well. We're going to find out what you did with that money. And you've been doing great things. That's all in my final chat with my guest, A Heather Francom. And we've got some Jacob Collier for you too. That's in just a moment. Jazz Shapers on Jazz FM.

18:04In partnership with Mishkondorea. It's business, but it's personal. Heather Francom is my business shaper just for a few more minutes. I talked about the money up front, this realisation that the teacher sort of wanted to drive a sports car I'm being slightly simplistic about it. You made a fair amount of money, I imagine, selling your business. What did that make you feel? Was there anything visceral that happened to you when you suddenly realized you didn't have the same level of wealth as you did beforehand? Part one, a short answer. And then I want to ask you a second question. Was it tangible to you?

18:42Was it tangible? I think the most important thing for me is I was a single mom and it gave me that security for my daughter. So that enabled me to stop worrying. And one of the reasons I initially partially sold the business was having that young daughter and having sort of built the asset within the business, but not necessarily having the cash side. it was about I was becoming more risk averse and actually by being able to take some money off the table to set that aside so that I knew that I had that sort of rainy day pot and that her future was secure enabled me to be a better business person and so that was my drive for doing that so there was a security kind of feeling around over there and then almost liberating you again to go take risks yeah and I know I've simplified that but then in terms of wanting to do good things with the money you've done a whole bunch of stuff lots of philanthropic things even the latest the Bud Systems Business Origin Workspace you take the profits as I understand them and you recycle them just from origin from origin into then giving essentially money that will have an impact on local communities young people and the like is that the teacher backing you again is philanthropy for you a way of teaching when um beyond the money obviously everyone every charity and there's a trustee of a charity i know we we need money to do things but i think what does it mean for you what what's the impact what's the meaning for for heather specifically don't get me wrong the the money enables you to do things that you wouldn't otherwise be able to do.

20:38So it has given me that opportunity to explore different places and all those lovely, lovely things. But in the end, I guess I was always brought up to never be showy. So, you know, if you ever got too big for your boots, that was very quickly brought back down. And I guess genuinely money will not bring you happiness. It enables you to do things. and I am hugely privileged to be able to do those things. But it's actually connection with people and being able to do something with other people, with a common vision, with a common mission. And to see that look on people's faces when you can make that difference.

21:26So for me in Lifetime, the Learner Achievement Awards that we held was always my favorite day of the year. it reminded you that why why do we do this you know when you hear some of the stories about the impact that you've been able to make on people's lives and and change what they're doing uh how wonderful is that it is it truly is such a privilege and that that for me it sounds like that's the biggest thing for you the biggest driver is the impact you can have and the privilege that you feel being able to make the impact yes and and to have fun along the way and that connection um so so i said at the beginning i have loved my entrepreneurial journey it really has been a privilege and it's been a privilege because of the people that i'm working alongside so having um connection with people that you've got shared values with and then being able to make a difference.

22:27How wonderful is it to be doing a job that's so much more than a job, actually. It brings so much reward. It's been brilliant talking to you, Heather. Thank you. I'm really pleased. We smoked you out of the cave. She came. We've been wanting to speak to Heather for a long time, but like a lot of great people, the mantra of never be showy was probably the one ringing in your ear saying, well, do I really need to come and talk about this? I'm really pleased you have. I think a lot of people think what a great thing to do to be an entrepreneur and to be able to have positive impact. This is what it's about to me at least.

22:58Just before I let you disappear back into the distance, do amazing things. What's your song choice and why have you chosen it? So I've chosen a song that I remember listening to lots when I was young. And I guess when I was sort of going into that teaching career. And it's Harold, Melvin and the Blue Notes, Wake Up Everybody. and I chose it today because I guess as you read the news today, there's so many wars, challenges and as I was sort of listening through several songs to choose one today, the words in this one I think resonated. Yeah, wake up everybody. Harold Melvin and the Blue Notes featuring Teddy Pendergrass with Wake Up Everybody, the song choice of my business shaper today, Heather Francom.

23:46She was taught as a child it was all about what you can do and not what you can't do. She worked out that she needed to both conform at school and not conform and the importance of juggling those agendas and how that served her well as an entrepreneur. She talked about how important scale and sustaining things were to her as a person in the world and in the world of business specifically. And finally, that lovely thought about never be showy and how that's really informed how she behaves and how she holds herself in the world. Great stuff. That's it from Jazz Shapers. Have a lovely weekend. Jazz Shapers on Jazz FM.

24:23In partnership with Mishkondorea. It's business, but it's personal. We hope you enjoy that edition of Jazz Shapers. You'll find hundreds more guests available for you to listen to in our archive. To find out more, just search Jazz Shapers on iTunes or your favourite podcast platform or head over to mishkon.com forward slash Jazz Shapers. At QVC, fall shopping is more than just checking out. It's discovering the brands you love across beauty, fashion, home, and culinary, all in one place. Whether you're getting ready for crisp mornings, cozy nights, or everyday moments, QVC has what you need for the season ahead.

25:03With brands like Laura Geller, Philosophy, Ninja, and so many more. Shop now at QVC.com. Saturday, September 26th Two of combat sports' most dangerous strikers collide Bare Knuckle Liverpool's own Darren the Gorilla Till Goes to war with Cuban powerhouse Yoel Soldier of God Romero Plus the Bare Knuckle Middleweight Championship Of the World is on the line When the reigning champ Dave the Redneck Mundell Defends against undefeated British challenger Jack the Meat Cleaver Cullen BKFC 94 Till vs. Romero Watch it live only on DAZN Sign up now at DAZN.com.