Will Pearson: Co-founder of Ocean Bottle

0:00Welcome to the Jazz Shapers podcast from Mishkondorea. What you're about to hear was originally broadcast on Jazz FM. However, the music has been cut due to rights issues. The world's greatest jazz, soul and blues. From the world's greatest artists. This is Jazz FM. Jazz Shapers with Elliot Moss. In partnership with Mishkondorea. It's business, but it's personal. Welcome to Jazz Shapers with me, Elliot Moss, bringing the shapers of the business world together with a musician shaping jazz, soul and blues. My guest today is Will Pearson, co-founder of Ocean Bottle, a company dedicated to enabling individuals around the world to make a global impact on ocean plastic.

0:43Having grown up partly in Norway, spending summers sailing in the fjords, how nice does that sound, with his grandparents and developing his love for the ocean. It was while working as a deckhand on a yacht that Will saw firsthand the side effects of plastic consumption. He returned a man on a mission, determined to find a solution. Meeting his future co-founder Nick on their first day at London Business School, the friends brought their new idea, Ocean Bottle, to market in 2019, with the promise that each reusable water bottle sold would fund the collection of 1 ,000 ocean-bound plastic bottles.

1:15Giving back 15 % of their revenue to plastic collection projects around the world and enabling people to exchange their plastic waste for money and access to social resources and aiming to create behaviour change around refilling reusable bottles, Ocean Bottle have recently hit a new milestone. They've collected 20 million kilos. That's right, you heard it correctly. 20 million kilos of plastic, and that's around 2 billion bottles. But their aim is far greater than that. It's great to have you. You're the co-founder of Ocean Bottle. Well, Elliot, thank you so much for having me on. It's great to be here.

1:46You're being polite now. We're locked in. We're locked in. we were talking just before we started the program about what young people say. Young people say a lot of things. They say that we're ruining our planet. They say that climate change is real. They say that what can I do? And there you were, a young man who just started business school, and you met this man, Nick, another man, and you said, well, we are going to do something. Tell me what problem you're trying to solve. Well, thank you. Thank you very much. I think there is a lot of fear out there, and I think the fear is growing. and I think we don't really need more apathy, we need action.

2:23And so with OceanBottle, we really saw a problem around ocean plastic pollution. It was around the time that Blue Planet 2 had come out with David Attenborough, the legend himself. And yeah, we really saw that individuals wanted to do something about this challenge and just didn't really know where to start. And so yeah, OceanBottle is really just all about enabling people to be part of global impact. And those collective decisions can kind of add up to something bigger. And yeah, we've made a good dent. But yeah, we've got a long way to go. Look, we're all connected with nature. I mean, I'm a Londoner.

3:01I've not lived in Norway. I'm not part Norwegian like you. I haven't sailed around the fields. But I feel obviously a connection when I relax and let go of daily life. I know that I'm in the right place and being a human, we're very lucky. For you, it was slightly exaggerated. was it from a very young age that you felt super connected and is that still something that you feel today yeah definitely I think um you know being half Norwegian having been lucky to spend time there growing up we are really spoiled in a way with with nature just you know lack of you know people so much space and just a lot of kind of undisturbed untouched nature what was that like as a kid was it just it was just it was it was like it's like when i think back to being a kid it was like a dream yeah it really was like we'd be on a boat and we'd look through a little sort of orange binocular that would look down under the water so you could kind of see all the sea life that was going on below and i remember just spending hours you know staring at that or like just looking out the kind of blue horizon so yeah definitely kind of stuck with me and and has continued to and you know the reality living in london you feel quite disconnected from it you know standing on the shoe probably the last thing you're thinking about is the ocean uh let alone nature so can you remember how you felt when you were that age and and just there in the water i think it was there was a sense of wonder obviously you've you've got that sense of wonder as a kid right that's kind of baked in to you and that that kind of goes a little bit with time.

4:35But it was really a sense of awe about the scale of it, the beauty of it. And that was even quite a young age, I think. It's hard to really remember those memories, but I think it definitely stuck with me. An indelible mark, most likely for you. Whereas I grew up at the end of the Jubilee line, not quite as salubrious. Well, we can swap back. I'd like to swap back. I wouldn't mind. We'd probably be in very different places if we both swapped lives as well. Will Pearson is my business shape. He's stayed with me for much more he's the co-founder of ocean bottle they are doing fantastic things well they're doing fantastic because you're that you're selling nice things that's the end at the end of the day right the product has to be good um people have told me that over the years and it's sort of common sense but you you've you're you're using one at the minute can you just lift up your here we go the ob there it is glued at the hip always in my hand tell me about so you you launch ocean bottle in 2019 what informs your design aesthetic how do you get to where you got to because that doesn't just happen.

5:29Yeah, I think we knew really early on that we couldn't just have a product that was kind of impact-led. It wouldn't be enough in the world we're in. And so we knew that we kind of had to really go hardcore on the product design and really create a product that was best in category. So we actually designed the product in Oslo in Norway, spent a year and a half designing and developing it, something like 3 ,000 hours designing a water bottle, which is sort of, you think it's kind of ridiculous to us. But it's not though, is it? So just give me an example of the kind of thinking that goes into a water bottle.

6:10Yeah, so for us, we learned into three things. So one was aesthetics. We wanted it to be minimalist, Scandinavian, something that people wouldn't get bored of and something that would actually appeal to a lot of people as well. So that was actually really important that like, you know, looking at it, it kind of looked great. two was functionality so it was actually the first insulated bottle that you could put in the dishwasher and it's got kind of a dual opening wide lid so you can fill it with any kind of drink a dual opening? yes you can pop open this part he's demonstrating right now demonstrating to you in the studio so yeah if you want cold water chuck some ice in but if you want to chuck a cocktail in there as well be my guest So it's, yeah, Function is a great product as well, and people seem to really love it.

6:58And then thirdly, obviously, Core is the sustainability of the product itself. And so, yeah, we've invested a lot in recycled materials, but it's a continuous journey because the materials that are available out there, you know, are still not perfect. So we're continuously sort of pushing forward on that. When you finish, it suddenly occurred to me, when you finish with your water bottle, whenever that is, what do you do with it? I mean, does it get recycled? because it's everything recyclable. Yeah, so it's got, every ocean bottle comes with a 10-year warranty and we've got a sort of spare parts programme so you can keep them going.

7:30You know, like if your kid rips off the loop and starts chewing it, we'll send you a spare. Well, if I get hungry, I mean, often I do offer them things. Silicon is quite tasty. Yeah, I mean, the kitchen is full of, it's like, it's a Pandora's box for children. Generally, you want to eat the food in the fridge, but you know, you may get hungry over there with those materials. But when you're making that stuff and you're 3 ,000 hours in and then all the other things that come with the startup and all the connective challenges, are you in those moments super mission-led? People talk about being mission-led and obviously, well, you are a mission-led business, you're a mission-led person.

8:06Or is the reality that it's just stuff to do? I think it's a bit of both. So I think you have those moments in the week where it's kind of mission-led and you might have a moment in the shower and you're dreaming of something on the impact front. But really, it's a lot of stuff to do. I think it's just a never-ending to-do list. So it's really like any business, but I suppose you try and bake in the impact elements and they become a core part of what you're doing. And the combination of the two of you from the beginning, how you obviously met, I think, on your first day at London Business School and your MBA, still going together.

8:45Your role is slightly different now, but you're essentially both there what what have been i read somewhere that you worked on your relationship you got some external help as it were which i think is very sensible because relationships are hard at the best of times when you're in business even harder just tell me a little bit about the dynamic yeah as honest as you like no no for sure you know it is being yeah having a co-founder relationship is like a marriage so it's really important but what i can say is that you know it really was a meeting of minds kind of from the beginning so i'd studied engineering I wanted to convert into kind of business and, you know, creating impact through that.

9:20And Nick had actually studied history. And he also, he really wanted to kind of reshape capitalism from the inside. So that was where, you know, we met. I wanted to do something about ocean plastic. He wanted to do a kind of business for good venture. So the fact that our values were kind of so aligned from the start really has helped massively along the way. Because, you know, even if you're in disagreement about one particular thing, ultimately you can find common ground and figure out a good way forward because you're aligned on your values. And yeah, it's been an absolute rollercoaster. We've had some cracking moments together.

9:57And some moments that were almost cracking. And the total absolute lows. But starting out, you've got no team, no resource. We didn't really know anyone back then. We didn't know any investors. So it was, yeah, I suppose you're doing every aspect of the business. But everyone that's on Jan Shapers has probably spoken about that. It's a journey. I'm going to come back to a specific thing and a question for how the partnership held up at that moment. It involves water bottles and Glastonbury. Don't get into sort of post-traumatic stress disorder. Much more coming up from my guest, Will Pearson. You'll find out about Glastonbury as well if you stay with me.

10:33He's going to be back in a couple of minutes. Right now, we're going to hear a taster from the Michigan Innovation Series, which you can find on all the major podcast platforms. Lydia Kellett invites business founders to share their practical advice and industry insights, if you're lucky, for those of you thinking about starting your very own thing. In this clip, we hear from Paul Biestel, CEO of Hooten Bio, a technology company aiming to decouple long-distance transportation from fossil fuels with HBX. I love it when people brand stuff. They're zero-carbon biofuel. The Mishcon Innovation Series.

11:01Inspiration from founders of cutting-edge businesses. In association with Jazz Shapers with Mishcon Derea. What advice would you give to those who wish to bring a new idea to the energy industry? I think parts of the energy industry are quite closed. They do what they've always done. They tend to be very safety critical. And actually, if you're worried about and you need to keep people alive, you have to be cautious about new. So you need some resilience. You need the ability to navigate obstacles. But I would say I think the tide is turning. I think the energy industry as a whole is seeing lots of new opportunities.

11:37is they're used to spending capital on large projects. They're used to going large. So if you can convince them what you're doing is good, there's a big opportunity. And I think the final thing is actually the energy sector needs people to not avoid it. I talked to lots of new graduates who are saying, I don't want to work for oil and gas. And I kind of get why they take that position. But the only way you can evolve an industry is by actively engaging and moving it along with them. The Mishcon Innovation Series. In association with Jazz Shapers, with Mishkondorea. This is Jazz Shapers with Elliot Moss in partnership with Mishkondorea.

12:15It's business, but it's personal. You can enjoy all our former business shapers on the Jazz Shapers podcast. Lucky you. And you can hear this very programme again if you pop Jazz Shapers into your favourite podcast platform. My guest today is Will Pearson. I hope you've been listening. Co-founder of Ocean Bottle, a company dedicated to enabling individuals around the world to make a global impact on ocean plastic. And it is that thing, isn't it? It's the dent because people do ask, I care, I care, but what can I do? And you're sort of trying to bridge the gap. It started off, and I mentioned earlier, the Glastonbury experience and when things don't go right.

12:48You talked to me about the 3 ,000 hours that went into product design. But in the beginning when you were trying stuff out, I understand that there were leaky bottles and things weren't so pretty. Talk to me a little bit about that and then more importantly, how you dealt with it and what you learned from it. yeah i mean uh i think every startup has had its rocky moments and we've had more than more than our our fair few um yeah there's there's uh definitely a couple anecdotes i could i could share uh now or after but yeah glastonbury was a really fun one uh so nick my co-founder he was really trying to like hunt down every i suppose both us we were sort of knocking down every door possible, right, that we could find how could we, you know, get some celebrities involved, how could we get, you know, the product into interesting spaces.

13:34So at one point he actually phoned the James Bond producer's manager to try and get us onto the film set, which almost went ahead. And then it was sort of actually who are you? And that kind of all fell apart. Glasses and Breen was really interesting. We had basically created the first batch of a thousand ocean bottles so it's the first thousand in the world and i've got a couple left what year i'm not sure they've gone up in value actually because they were all leaking um this was this was no this was 2019 2019 so it's 2019 ahead of covid and the world turning upside down um and yeah you know we we obviously invested a huge amount of the design we found this amazing production partner and ultimately they just they ended up you know not not really kind of fulfilling on on the promise of of the design that we developed and so probably a third of those bottles were leaking and we even had on the packaging you know anti-leak seal and all that very best but people people were quite kind about it you know we had emails coming in we had uh one musician's drummer had got a bottle and said you know could you send me another lid?

14:49It seems to be leaking everywhere. But people were, you know, they were into the mission. Do you think it was, I mean, did it matter? Did it matter that it didn't work? No, I think it was just all part of the journey, part of the learning. And I suppose it made us actually take that part of it, sort of, you know, the operations and production, because I was kind of doing that, trying to do that, down at the warehouse, sending out bottles to the wrong places and, you know, all that good stuff. and then, yeah, we end up hiring an amazing ops person who's now actually our director of ops, so she's stayed with us since the beginning.

15:26And are those sorts of things, the wake-up calls that you need in a startup, where you go, I'm trying, but I kind of know I'm winging it? You'd probably rather not have them, you know, if I'm honest, but, yeah, I suppose you learn from every mistake you make, and if you don't learn, you end up doing it again, and the second time around you're like, well, now we should probably definitely do something about this. Will Pearson is my business shaper today. He's the co-founder of Ocean Bottle, talking about when things go wrong. And you're laughing about it now, but the serious side of it, of course, and I've read about this and I think you've been quite open, you're a bit of a perfectionist.

16:05The world is on your shoulders in a way, literally, because you're not just... I help people grow their businesses. You're trying to stop the planet dying and the oceans disappearing. I mean, there's a slight dissonance between those two, but there's a serious moral obligation on you that you're going to feel personally. There's the business side of it. There's the startup pressure. It got too much for you, and you've talked about that. Tell me a little bit about your journey there and where you are now. And you look like you're on top of things, but what was happening for you? Yeah, yeah. Well, I think a lot of entrepreneurs probably experience burnout and their own challenges on the journey.

16:46because it is a tough one. And for me, yeah, for me personally, I think I had, you know, I just put a lot of expectation on myself that, you know, this was definitely going to succeed. It was going to, you know, we were going to save the ocean as a single startup, which was ridiculous. Within a couple of weeks of starting, obviously. And I, you know, quite quickly learned that actually there's other amazing organizations out there, initiatives that are doing great stuff. and it really is a collective effort. So I think that one actually went away more quickly. But that pressure stayed there for quite a long time.

17:25And I think there was, I really had kind of, you know, the company was really a part of me. So if the company failed, I've kind of failed in life was sort of my mentality. And I think that was a really unhealthy thing. And so what's been great since I had a sort of, I remember it was probably 2022. I really couldn't see the wood for the trees and just sort of hit the wall a little bit. And yeah, since then, I've really just tried to decouple myself, you know, my identity from the company. And how have you done that, Will? Because it's one thing conceptually where you go, I totally get it. When you're in it though, when you're in it and you're really in it and the black cloud is upon you, you can't see the wood for the trees.

18:09So how did you practically get out of that and how do you stay out of that? Yeah, so I think it's a few things and trying to do them quite deliberately. And so one of them was really making time for things like exercise, seriously as a sort of circuit breaker. Doing meditation, just doing that for a while, failed that recently. It's quite hard actually, isn't it? It's really hard. Sounds ridiculous. I'm someone with incessant thinking, loads of ideas, can't stop. I can relate to that. Exactly. Perfect. we'll leave the brainstorm for after but yeah I think those parts were definitely part of that decoupling and then it was also being a little bit less involved in the day to day of the business so intentionally removing yourself exactly just having a little bit of distance from stuff and then actually we've hired people that are way better at things than I am and so we've got this incredible team now and you know seeing them get on with the things that they're really good at is awesome and so that for me personally has been really great actually to get you know through those early days where you're doing absolutely everything to slightly more established not established but do you do you end up i mean may sound strange but do you talk to yourself i do i mean i say it's only because in high pressure moments i sort of i do have a word with myself I just wondered if you did or if I'm the only lunatic.

19:38Yeah, no, I probably do talk to myself, but it's probably more of the ideas and getting carried away with, oh, we could do this, we could do this, let's do this, why aren't we doing this, you know, that kind of thinking. But did you feel yourself coming out of it? Was there a moment when you go, okay, I'm starting to handle this? Yeah, definitely. You know, it was probably, it was definitely a few months, yeah. But, you know, now, yeah, it's exciting. I'm sort of, and that process as well, you do fall a bit out of love with what you've created because you've sort of created your own nightmare in some respects but definitely fallen back in love with the company, the mission and everything so it's incredibly exciting Final chat come up with Will Pearson and we've got some soul for you from Alice Clark that's all in just a moment you'll hear how his excitement is manifesting itself for the future of Ocean Bottle this is jazz shapers with elliot moss in partnership with mishkondorea it's business but it's personal will pierce is my business shaper and he was talking about how he's fallen back in love with ocean bottle that sense of not being alone is is critical you talked about other endeavors that are looking towards saving our oceans um i've read a lot about your you bringing together other businesses to talk to big businesses to say what can we do with regard to addressing plastic waste issues.

21:01Other member of your board said something to you, which I think is worth you sharing with me now, just very briefly about this love point. Just can you share that and then also talk a bit about your coach as well? Because I think that's something else that's relevant to how you've managed to be in a good place. Yeah, definitely. Well, we had an amazing board member who, you know, had been a sort of, what's it called, a multi-time founder? We'll call it a multi-time founder today. New word. A serial founder. Serial founder, thank you. I like multi-time more though I think that's better multi-time hey welcome to multi-time yeah and I've really been through the ringer and so I've experienced it and yeah he said to both of us both Nick and myself guys if you don't enjoy the journey no one else is going to enjoy it for you and when it's over you know if whatever happens to the company it will be over so you kind of you know you need to enjoy it and actually if you're enjoying it everything becomes better.

22:00I think the business just moves forward better, actually. And then on the coaching side, yeah, I did get a coach as I had a bit of a, you know, when I got into that sort of tricky period. And that was really great because it was ultimately sort of an accountability partner who knew, you know, what were the best things to be doing. You know, would kind of push me and say, have you been, you know, prioritizing personal life, meditation, exercise all the things that you kind of commit to with that person But someone on your side Totally And as you've developed your relationship with Nick and again the conscious conversations you've had with him the different roles now I believe that you've stepped back from being the co-CEO and you're involved with all sorts of other bits of the business and you've got more people in there you must be in the perfect position as it were to take things in the right direction Is that how it's feeling there?

22:56Yeah, definitely. And I think it was, you know, Nick and I kind of playing to our strengths. Being co-CEO is challenging as well. So it's great, you know, him taking on the baton. He's done an amazing job at that. And other incredible team members as well. And yeah, it's really allowed me to do more of this kind of stuff, which has been really fun. But also some spicy special projects, you know, big partnerships. Yeah, really just supporting the business where I can. So it's been really good. And just one last thing, this Ocean Co that was set up in 2023, the track and trace, which reminds me of COVID, but of course this is about the...

23:36Good kind of track and trace. Yeah, a nice kind of track and trace. Like where has it been, how much plastic has been saved, as it were, in this product. These things, are there more of them coming down the line? Have you got other ideas? Yeah, so we always had a dream about having that kind of traceability. all the cool sustainability initiatives and the most cutting edge ones have got that and so we really wanted to enable people to see where they've made an impact we partnered with a lot of companies as well who do co-branded products for their staff, events and so for them to be able to see the impact that they've made if they've got a thousand ocean bottles they've collected an equivalent of a million plastic bottles that's really great and so we built that really for ourselves and then we saw kind of an opportunity to allow other brands to do what we're doing and kind of add plastic collection to different things.

24:33Bigger the tent, right? Bigger the tent, the better. Exactly. So we've got a long way to go on that one, but it's still in motion. It's a big idea and that's the thing. If you can get people behind it, then that momentum builds and that's a kind of long-term play. Exactly. It's not going to get fixed next week. I know you want to... We're going to have to ask your song choice and why you chose it in a moment and we're going to be closing too fast. I've read that you are going to be sailing around the world within the next five years. I'm going to ask you, because I'm now your coach, are you going to do this?

25:02Can you commit to it right now here on Jazz Shakers? Are we going to lock in? Are we going to lock in? Will, are you actually going to do it? I am determined to do it. It's been a dream for a very long time. And so luckily my other half, Megan, and she is on board. Literally, or just from the side? Not quite on board yet, literally. But yeah, she's up for it. And yeah, really excited to do that. I can't think of a better adventure. Feels like a Netflix series of some sort. It's a sort of full circle thing as well, yeah. Getting back out at sea, you know. Sort of being dreamt of getting back on the boat, back on the water, yeah.

25:43And actually that is what a great way of bringing to life exactly what Ocean Bottle is all about. have the cameras going, have the podcast going, I can visualise it now. Yeah, we'll get you out there in an episode. I was angling, literally. It's been great to talk to you, Will, really. A brilliant project. It's more than a project. It's kind of core to human existence and how we interact with our planet. So really good luck with that and good luck with enjoying the journey. Good luck with enjoying the ride. Just before I let you disappear, what's your song choice and why have you chosen it? It's What a Wonderful World by Louis Armstrong.

26:14And it is actually my favourite song choice because it was my grandparents. favorite song. And, you know, it's, you know, I think what it speaks to is definitely close to my heart. It is a wonderful world. So let's protect it. Louis Armstrong, of course, with What a Wonderful World, the song choice of my business shaper today, Will Pearson. He talked about the importance of alignment in values between him and his co founder, Nick, really critical as you think about who is going to go on the journey with you. He talks about creating a product that was best in its category, not simply driven by impact which is critical but actually the product standing on its own two feet if you don't enjoy the journey he was told by one of his wise board members no one else will for you a really smart piece of advice that's it from me and jazz shapers have a lovely weekend jazz shapers on jazz fm in partnership with mishkondorea it's business but it's personal we hope you enjoy that edition of jazz shapers you'll find hundreds more guests available for you to listen to in our archive to To find out more, just search Jazz Shapers on iTunes or your favourite podcast platform, or head over to mishcon.com forward slash Jazz Shapers.