Jimmy VS Producers | Easter Special

0:00We're the Hartford, with decades of experience insuring millions of unique small businesses. When it comes to your small business insurance, Thank you. one size absolutely does not fit all. Get a quote or find an agent today at thehartford.com slash smallbusiness. Think Verizon is expensive? Think again. Anyone can bring their AT &T or T-Mobile bill to a Verizon store today and we'll give you a better deal. So bring us your bill. Walk in, run in, pogo stick in, teleport if you can. ride on the back of a rollerblading yak or flying on the wings of a majestic falcon any way you can bring your at &t or t-mobile bill to a verizon store today and we'll give you a better deal on the best network based on root metrics best overall mobile network performance us second half 2025 all rights reserved must provide very recent postpaid consumer mobile bill in the name of the person redeeming the deal additional terms conditions and restrictions apply welcome to jimmy's jobs of the future today i'm joined by guest supremo sunny winter we're gonna have a bit of a reflect on q1 what cool stuff we've been doing we last did one of these at Christmas and I think we go do them every quarter, round up some of the things that we've been doing and what we're going into on the next one.

1:04So this is for the real super fans and for my mum. Let's get into it. Sonny, welcome to Jimmy's Jobs of the Future. Hello. Last time was Christmas Eve and we're just having a bit of a Q1 wrap up with everything that's been going on, right? New year, new me, new us. Big things have happened, right? the sunny diet the no carbs diet doing tremendously well yes and actually we've got some interesting guests coming on who are actually talking more about diet yes we just had Steve Rigby in haven't we yeah who was talking about his amazing kind of amateur sporting career which I've got no idea about but I'm very jealous kind of puts my running around the comment to shame I mean you said amateur and then suddenly you were talking about these awards and being sponsored yeah exactly he's done every sport at the top level so I don't know how he's even got time to grow his company but clearly it's all very successful it was amazing yeah really impressive so what have your highlights been from Q1 then?

2:08so it's got to be going past 100k yeah that silver plaque on YouTube yeah that arriving that was fun wasn't it from Neil Mahan from YouTube yeah who's got an open invitation by the way to sit right here in the seat that I'm in I remember growing up when those silver plaques first came out when it was, you know, the first few channels went past 100k and it really was like, wow, this seems impossible Yes So, I don't know, it sort of scratched a childhood itch Because the next one now is a million which feels like a lot to 10x from here Possible But it's funny how these things matter, isn't it? Like, you know, it's a lovely shiny silver plaque well you said 10x just then that reminded me of some sort of goal we set for ourselves i can't remember what it was oh it's always 10x isn't it it was 10x yeah okay well then 10x in 10 days yeah so when we do this podcast this time next year we'll be looking at our million plaque glinting in our studio which will be very large by then be one suite um but yes 100k that's that's huge highlight for me um those who were listening over the christmas break will remember that um We'd ask for your support in voting for us.

3:23Our Tony Blair episode had been up for interview of the year, which we actually won. So that was really awesome. And the team went, we were sat there at the YouTube table. And yeah, what an amazing feeling. I mean, it was. And I genuinely didn't expect to win that as well. I mean, for people who weren't aware, yeah, we were at Political Podcast of the Year Awards. We were up for interview of the year, which I was particularly proud of from a personal perspective. Yes. but we were up against the rest of politics in the interview with the Syrian president so I really did not think we were going to win that and it was only on the tube journey did we start thinking about what I might say if we did actually win on the way in if you remember yeah and to be fair credit to them that was a great interview as well so yes it made the win feel even nicer to be fair knowing we were up against some big heavy hitters it's nice we name checked them which is good which is more than they did with our interview with tony blair and supporting smaller podcasts which even though it's 15 months ago and we've won an award for i'm still not quite over yet oh you're still sore about that whole thing yeah so they when we did the tony blair one but i think there's something interesting on this right about like we've now grown to such a point where it's like i'm very conscious of like how we support younger podcasters and whatever and i've done like gone on and appeared on a couple in the last kind of quarter as well, like the conversation cabinet as well.

4:46And it's like, I consider it a real thing to try and support them. And yeah, it still really grinds my gears there. Someone WhatsApp me asking you to appear on a podcast. I'm like, now I've got you on the record. Now you've got me on the record. I know it's hard. I'm getting a lot more now. But no, that was really cool. So what about you? I suppose they're probably pretty similar. I think it's one of these weird things where like, we've obviously like one of my favorite episodes from the last few months that we've done is Will Storr and the episode on status, right? And I love Will Storr and I love the way he thinks about it all and so on.

5:25And these kind of like new status markers of winning an awards thing and going past 100 ,000 subscribers, like what does it all mean and so on. But it's amazing moments for like your own network, your own kind of for you guys are working here as well i remember you saying kind of a little while ago you wanted to be an award-winning producer and it's like i completely get that as well and it's just like i'm just a bit sort of longer and gnarlier now longer in the tooth gnarlier that i don't care about that stuff as much but then actually when it happens like it was really quite cool and actually we had a really interesting evening and the exciting stuff that's happened is we actually struck a partnership deal with one of the UK's biggest airports.

6:13Yep. At the political podcast awards that we're going to be doing. And we also got the Mootron as a guest, which was you going over to him and getting his number and so on. So it's like... I can't believe that worked. Yeah. Fingers crossed it all. I think it probably helped that we won the award because then we were on stage with him. He wouldn't get off stage until he gave you his number. I was like She just grabbed the mic How to How to do it Tui We are recording right yeah No Sorry Okay good Are we just going to leave that in Is that a wind up What do you mean recording Like has she hit the record button And you said no Tui Yeah she's winding She's winding us Oh right is it Yeah she's still winding it up This April falls She's in too deep It's hard to tell one thing that was that still is cool every time is having a secretary of state come to our office I mean I know for our listeners or the people who watch on YouTube you see this glorious almost palace like Jimmy's Jobs studio it just looks incredible but the that's a little bit sarcasm there but the reality is right like we're in this sort of quite sort of fairly large size room we've got this side here which is the studio but you know it's all a bit of movie magic what you can't see is that as a guest you're sort of looking at quite a lot lights and cameras and things like that so knowing that you know we bought this kit we built this and then having a secretary of state turn up it's it's still amazing i think i'm right in saying the very first episode we ever recorded here was tom togenhart where we basically had two chairs and a big old light lampshade in the middle and now we just have Pat McFadden and Peter Kyle and even Tom Tuganard was pretty cool to get down there at the time.

8:12Yeah, we were a brilliant Tory party leader at the time. The fact that we can still do that I think loads of people We've added the curtains. We haven't got any negative or positive feedback on that yet. Okay, from you. For me, you've had plenty, yes. yeah if any companies want to sponsor us and give us some nice curtains I found some nice ones that are sort of gradient effect from a dark blue to a light blue so any corduroy companies or something please get in touch but I think that was a highlight I mean it always is

8:49is yeah yeah yeah I guess it is but it's happened quite a lot right um it happened yeah yeah but you still got to have the charm of the whole thing, right? It's amazing how many people they kind of like rock up with. We should make notes of that. You know, the average person comes with this many. I'm sure there's graphs. Remember you got me to this graph the other day that was like pay rises versus GDP growth. Oh, yes. Views per posse size or group size that turns up. Or how many emails it takes to set up the thing. yeah yeah um there is supposed to be a calculator on the civil service about like you can now put in how much a meeting costs because you do have these meetings because meetings again like i've obviously got it in my brain at the moment but a bit of a status thing uh and like being at the meeting was a big status thing in government or could be um and so you'd end up with these meetings with you know dozens and dozens of people in um doesn't bode well for scaramucci right two whatsapp messages well it depends exactly I think you'll probably end up being one of our most yeah two whatsapp messages and bang it sort of flies the more friction there is the less it will kind of manage and so on yeah you know talking about Pat McFange brings up memories we had a pretty intense filming day recently you know stay tuned for that one it's a big project so it'll take a few weeks to get it all ready and things It's Jimmy really like you've never seen him before.

10:29I could prefer to say heart rate beating not just for you for everyone. And on the way back, what were you doing to relax and unwind? Listening to Pat McFadden on political thinking with Nick Robinson. Yeah, that's not even unwinding. I think that's just still, that's just as high octane, I think. I mean, it's difficult to network. It's funny, right? Because we've been up since 5am that morning. And we were driving out to Somerset. we can leave some breadcrumbs for this yeah we got all the way there and back in one charge which was um amazing and then on the way back it's like it is it's tough for these things right because you're basically on show for five hours you know and you've been up early and like it's just this whole new thing that i have to kind of get used to about being the center of it all as well and you're like there's a lot kind of relying on you and obviously kind of like quite used to high adrenaline work days and so on um but it did yeah it is always a challenge when you're doing some physical activity as well like there's just a lot of adrenaline pumping through you but then i just find it incredibly hard to switch off now and so at 4 p.m when we're all bundled in the car having you know been on site for you know nine ten hours or whatever and you know you're at this amazing company you're trying to soak up all this stuff and all the history of the museum and the origin story it is your brain is working on so many different levels i know the whole team is working hard on whatever but it is just the the new experience of it but then i do feel incredibly lucky to do days like that and it was only it was only in the final half an hour i was getting really excited about what we were actually going to go and do.

12:21But it was interesting to tag to another episode that we did with this quarter with Matteo Flamini, the former Arsenal footballer and now turned chemical entrepreneur. Not out yet. Not out yet, but it's out. Pretty soon, yeah. Pretty soon, right? Yeah, yeah. We sort of have, as you can tell, Sonia and I have this conversation off-camera beforehand about what we are allowed to trade and what we're not. but him talking about adrenaline was quite interesting in terms of how he gets his adrenaline and where he gets it from and that he still needs it to operate on was just quite interesting actually and that's one of the things I think about this job I mean you know it's one of the core cultural things that I say to the team here is that everyone should be proud of the jobs that they have and should do their utmost to talk about them and help other people inspire them into it as well because they're all quite new style jobs which is why i'm harassing you all to kind of post on linkedin more employee generated content um but yeah it was i i feel very lucky that a we get to go and do amazing shoots like that but also that our jobs have still quite a bit of adrenaline in them in terms of you know whether it's an episode taking off or some footage taking off landing a big guest like there's quite a lot of i think that's a very privileged kind of position.

13:44There aren't necessarily a lot of... I mean, when you said landing the big, I thought you were going to give something away then. For our poor listeners who've never seen any of our episodes induce a huge amount of adrenaline, I'm sure they're going to be so confused until they see it. So actually, for that, I'm talking about LinkedIn and posting more. If you can guess what's coming up, then make a post on LinkedIn or Twitter and tag us with hashtag big guest or something and um yeah maybe we can stick your name in the credits a little shout out or something or at the end that episode yeah yeah yeah um and the other thing actually i was just thinking about that in terms of like the the pressure that you're under when you're in that environment because you know i've done a couple we work with all sorts of companies and sometimes they want to come in and you know say oh jimmy's jobs approved this thing because we use it in the back end whatever um and then i have to do those interviews it it is harder than i give you credit for a lot of the time and i actually find that doing the prep just before you're going to do it that week before you're going to do something is actually where the preparation kicks in the hardest so it's almost not it doesn't matter if you're in a busy month as long as the days preceding that are free for you to get your headspace clear and also it doesn't matter if the whole month is clear if the two days before the filming or the shoot are very busy because then you, do you know what I mean?

15:07I do find it, like, how the background brain works as I talk about, like, I do find that I just need time to listen to stuff when it sort of forms. It's quite interesting on that side. We should probably get some sort of neuroscientist on to talk about that. But, yeah, how the background, you know, kind of runs. That was a problem as well that we had. I think we can talk about this because I posted about it, that we were going to get Ed Miliband on. We had the whole Iranian crisis, and it got shifted from earlier in the week to late in the week, which, looking back on it, is about one of the worst things that can happen because then it ended up taking all week, and then it didn't happen in the end as well, which, to be fair to Ed, he called me about and apologised, and it was obviously really exceptional circumstances in terms of running the energy department and you're about to face possibly the biggest energy crisis that we've had in half a century.

16:11So I totally understood it and thought it was decent of him to call as well. But it was like, it did end up taking a lot of my brain power that week. Yeah, you've done all the groundwork basically. We've basically done all the groundwork. I think we'll do a great episode when we get around to doing it still. But then you're doing it after all the Iran stuff with the energy. That whole episode might have changed at that point. Completely. Yeah, no, it is. It's not even like you can necessarily always reuse it. I mean, for context as well, when you're doing a podcast or you're choosing guests, you're going after guests, sometimes we'll have some moonshot guests that we go after.

16:54Sometimes it's like a mutual thing. Peter Carl's a great one. like I was at a team where he was at an event where he was talking his team were there we sort of looked at each other we said should we do this I mean it was just a mutual thing basically um but Ed Miliband their team basically pitched him to us so you know we're feeling very high and mighty and then like you say uh exceptional circumstances but mentally it can sometimes feel a bit like you do feel a little bit messed around I mean we'd still love to have Ed Miliband on but um i think it's psychologically it can be almost tougher when you feel like they've pitched you first and then you sort of feel the rug being pulled under you again exceptional circumstance all the rest of it but from a mentality point of view you know yeah you see this is where it's good job sonny's the producer and the negotiator rather than and i'm the host because i'm actually just a lot more sympathetic with everything that was going on having been there knowing what that would be involving and whatever.

17:52Now I've been thrown under the bus. Jimmy was not as calm. No, I was just saying it ended up taking a lot of the week. But it was... I also... Yeah, well look. Hey, I'm still bugged out by not being mentioned on the rest of politics, right? That's true. Maybe you're not the perfect empath that we all thought you were. All sweetness and light. I'd say an interesting episode that we did this quarter, reflections on, And I think it's quite interesting to kind of talk and explain it was Diego, pickpocket thief. The guy that catches pickpocket thieves, for those that haven't seen the episode. This is a guy who has built an enormous online following, sort of, I think has gone past a million actually since we did him, probably appearing on this podcast that did it.

18:41A million on his Instagram. million on his Instagram um where he basically goes and hunts down pickpockets in London and a learning about that as a job and also like credit to um Tui who like sourced it and pulled all that together and so on because I was a bit like what how good of an episode will this be and because he had not done that many podcasts before but like the job was super interesting and also learning about all of the street crime and the way that it operates. And actually you think of pickpockets as kind of like this sort of twee Victorian pick-a-pocket or two, but actually it's like proper organised illegal immigration crime that's happening.

19:28Like it was quite a, yeah, it was just an interesting insight into that whole. You know what I thought was really interesting? I think it was the very first time we did the Meet the Producers. we were talking about celebrity traitors and how that was a real cultural touchstone. A bit like, you know, the manosphere thing has been recently. But what Diego sort of taught me was I hadn't really come across him, but maybe more than any other guest recently. The people in my circles, when I tell them, oh, we've got Diego, maybe because they also don't imagine us having a guest like that. They imagine all the politics.

20:02Exactly. But it got such a huge reaction. I was like, that made me really feel like, not echo chambers, but like, we all have our own little social media bubbles. How did I not come across them? And every person I'm telling you to get it completely. I'll say, oh, we've got that pickpocket. And I'm like, it is one of those. It's definitely one of those things about where you go to say things. And when I worked at the Institute of Directors with Christian May, now editor of CIM, I mean, we had this sort of thing of popping up in unexpected places, saying unexpected things. I remember one of the things that we did was we hung an LGBT flag outside of the Institute of Directors, partly because it was where Pride goes down the mountain and so on.

20:50And we did like a bit of an, we got the Directors General to do an interview. Yeah, right? And it was just like stuff like that, which you just get cut through because it's in Pink News or whatever. And it's like, why is it an idea appearing in Pink News talking about, like, whereas you're right in terms of like saying that is, people know that we get politicians and business leaders on, right? Like, you know, hopefully I'll be where Flamini has a bit of cut through and so on. But you're right. Like we had proper like people wanting to come to the studio for that Diego episode. So it's like desperate to kind of like meet him.

21:27Yeah, yeah, I had that on. And it's just funny, one of those things that kind of like get comfortable. And he was fascinating. And I thought such a kind of softly spoken person. Like when you watch some of his videos. Yeah, but it was like pretty sort of scary stuff. Yeah, I mean, if you look on YouTube, our last few episodes, you'll know that we have a sort of live set so we will put people's books or some people bring things along with them so we've got a sort of F1 car from Williams and various bits and bobs and you will have seen that we have the little spray that he uses but just behind the guest up to the left of their shoulder so sometimes I think if there are super fans they could maybe suss out what we've got coming up if they really inspected the if they really inspect it yeah definitely definitely and you've had like a busy month on the box site stuff and producing various bits and pieces for other people right what can I say I'm now a triple award winning producer Bournemouth uni 30 under 30 I mean is it fair for me to take interview of the year as a credit can I take that well you help prep part of it yeah I've just won this Cannes Lions thing so now I've tripled three in six months so I need to find something else to apply for maybe I get my loyalty card stamped out or something yeah look I mean the big project we've just launched a new show it's called What We Don't Know Joint Venture I'd say it's a leadership show I wouldn't say it's more niche but I'd say it's really leadership focused it's very practical when I'm thinking of the sort of ideal target market for Jimmy's Jobs of the Future, I am thinking of the 20-something in their first or second job that has just got a job for the sake of getting it and is now thinking about what they want to do with their career next.

23:28And they are driven, ambitious, but maybe a little bit directionless, right? Like, that is who I think of that listens to our show as the kind of, like, primary audience. Now, obviously, there's loads of secondary audiences. Yeah, and they want to know how those people think. They want to know how those people think. We've got a lot of over-50s listening. that's the fastest growing demographic at the moment listening i am convinced that is people's parents trying to help their kids understand a bit more of the world of work and so on um but obviously there's loads of policymakers as well makes up a kind of key part of the audience etc lots of my old network from white hall and so on like it's quite interesting and there were a lot of we'll come on to anthropy later but something interesting happened at anthropy that i was going to kind of reflect on which was this amazing conference put on by john O 'Brien in Cornwall.

24:19But yeah, so this show with what we don't know is slightly targeted more at those preparing for the C-suite. And it's like one of the things that we talked to Matt and Hyatton about kind of extensively was like this would almost be like a sister show. Okay, so I think to case it properly, it's a show all about leadership hosted by leaders. So these are two people who have been at the top of their respective fields and have stepped down from two pretty major roles. So one of them is Dr. Hyatton Sillam CBE, who was formerly the CEO of the Royal Academy for Engineering. Now, I don't profess to be an engineer myself, but as soon as something's got a Royal Academy in front of it, you know, it really does mean something.

25:06And she's had an amazing career and sort of sat on Lewis Hamilton's charity and just, you know, really risen in the field. And I think she was there for 17 years. So a lot of loyalty there as well. And then co-hosting that with Matt Britton, CBE as well now, who stepped down from Google last year. And I believe when this goes out, has been announced in another pretty interesting job, which makes us very proud as well that he obviously chose us to produce it. So that's been awesome. And I also, by the way, to that point that you were saying before about audience segmentation, if that's our primary audience and our secondary audience are the people who want to learn and stay cutting edge and think a little bit like those 20, 30 something year olds, I'd say just in the same way.

25:50I'm listening to this leadership show, not a chief exec of a big footsie company. And I'm thinking, wow, there's some really interesting, good piece of leadership advice in there. So, yeah, it's always worth thinking about the second degree audience. And that's out now. I will put that in the show notes. Yeah, yeah, definitely. No, it's been an amazing kind of journey. Hyatton emailing me at the end of November, just being like, can we chat? Got an interesting idea and whatever. And I said to you earlier, I was like, yeah, and we're going to go do this one in person. You were like, why are we doing this in person?

26:24We normally start a video call. And I was just like, no, no, these two. There we were, a cold, rainy day in November. Stood outside. One day for the memoirs. and yeah so it's kind of been like it's been a lot of fun to sort of work on that get a show from concept to launch which has basically just taken us a quarter which is actually incredibly quick when you think about it and we've got like 8-10 episodes in the can as well like obviously Matt's gone off now to do his big job at the BBC and so on but yes congratulations to him of course yes do you think like do you think we apply best practices to everyone but ourselves?

27:08Now you're thinking about it, I'm like, oh yeah, we're actually pretty good when we work for other people. Well, I think it's... Inevitably, you almost care more and you put more care into other people's stuff than you do. If you're borrowing a camera off a mate and whatever, I dare say you care for it more than our kit. Yeah, that is true. it's also like we get we get to try stuff out like I think our audience are so amazing in the sense that we've grown with them we've evolved with them and we very rarely get sort of pushback oh we didn't like that like normally we try something out they say wow cool the live stream or whatever it is so that means we can try stuff with you guys and then if it works we can be a bit innovative then we can help others with that as well which is always nice yeah yeah that's the whole thing right it's like trying to build a company in a new way like we have jimmy's jobs and we do that and we do that on a weekly basis and that's a bit of a sandbox for us where we get to play with stuff and try stuff out and then you know we've got a whole kind of like suite of corporate clients now that we're working with and he's just trying to sort of yeah explain and package that what yeah what we've kind of learned in those so I mean the fact that we're not over planned it's a feature not a bug you could say which is my new favourite phrase I've been saying I know you have been saying that a lot which I sometimes want you to actually explain what you mean by that it's a bit like me using bites of the cherry yeah well it just means it's like a two edged sword right like yes you move very quickly but then it can feel a little bit chaotic if for listeners Jimmy's rolling his eyes profusely right now I think I've lost him um but you are quietly building an institution it's become my big thing that gpt just keeps saying it's like jimmy you are quietly quietly building an institution with jimmy's jobs of the future just has driven me crackers in the last quarter to the point where i've stopped using it um well you've said it so much now i think maybe all the transcripts have now gone into the source material it's like it goes down a rabbit hole with like what it thinks you're doing and then can't get itself oh actually i i did i used chat jbt to do some stuff on jimmy's jobs um and it gave a super comprehensive bio of you so i don't know if it updated recently and like took a load of scoured some stuff but i thought it was really impressive like it had like when you moved to fleischmann hillard that that that i was like my linkedin profile fine but it had like specific bits as well i was like it felt like it leveled up talking about what we don't know we did some at anthropy which is what you were just talking about there the conference in cornwall yeah so we had an amazing couple of days down there didn't we really like uh we thought we would be launching what we don't know uh with highton and matt down there but then matt obviously couldn't make it so we were down there um john o 'brien had invited us and we were i was doing lots of things with Jobs Foundation down there, Matthew Elliott, Georgiana as well.

30:18And it was just really interesting. There were lots of good people down there that we know. Christian May was down there, Bim Afalami. And the panels there, I thought, were some of the highest quality that I have been at ever. Really? They were really, really good. They were really interesting. The ones I was on, I was on with BIM and a lady called Emmanuel from BNP Paribas and Will Hutton as well, who I'd not actually met before, but was like, it was really interesting on kind of growth and how we get there. And actually, sometimes I feel like when you go to these things, particularly at party conference, you end up with a lot of sort of like basically policy cliches.

31:04Yeah. Maybe we should give that a name, like cliches, like why doesn't the UK have a Google or stuff like that and so on. And actually there were just some really detailed conversations about what to do. I think it was good because a lot of the panels were kept to three as well, which is basically, I think the perfect panel is basically two or three. I think any bigger than that. When you say panel, you mean those on the panel plus the moderator? Yeah, plus the moderator. So I was moderating and appearing on some as well. And I thought the one that we did actually on the last day about jobs and AI, was really interesting with Kamal Ahmed, Matthew Elliott, Christian, and the guy from Salesforce, and Claire Cookson.

31:44There were a lot on that panel. I've just broken that slight rule. But it was really interesting. And Claire had got an amazing background with some of the stuff that she'd done in schools. So I just thought it was... It was really good. And it was an amazing place to do it in. Oh my God, yeah. In the Citrus Room. stages and so on. It was the Mediterranean biome, so if you haven't been to the Eden Project, you need to imagine one of these sci-fi huge, huge orbs that have entire rainforests or Mediterranean biome or just different biomes where you can basically take... I mean, that felt kind of weird, actually, right?

32:22You're in, like, slightly chilly Cornwall in March time, and then you walk into what really felt like Easter holidays a couple of weeks early, to be honest, if you're going somewhere warm. I didn't get to go to as many talks I think as you did because I was there doing some recordings and stuff but it did seem good I mean I'd not come across Emmanuel before and I thought she was really awesome yeah I thought she was really impressive Matthew Elliott obviously I watched him on your panel on the Friday I think after you'd left I ended up chatting to him for five minutes or something I thought wow this guy's really cool obviously Jobs Foundation that yeah well it's loads of overlapping I had a good catcher with James Kangasorian as well so yeah overall I just thought it was it's really interesting obviously i reference having your kids on the show quite a bit but it does mean i'm like it is hard for me to find time to dedicate to go away for a couple of days um and so on but actually they were a lovely time as well so um it's yeah it it was good and hopefully we'll be it's funny now because you're now going into the quarter and we should we should talk a little bit about what we had also the first thing that happened to me at amphiby sort of touched on this earlier was that i got stopped by a couple of people who had no relation to me in any way and whatever to say how much they enjoyed the podcast which i thought was like an interesting thing because we've talked about celeb well not not celeb is too much because it's like it's obviously quite a business careers focused conference to some degree give me a profile of these people exactly they came over and they just said a couple of people just said oh you know i really enjoyed it and this does happen we've talked about this because i know you're always fascinated by it but like it happens when i'm in westminster or toy party conference or like stuff like that or it sometimes happens in derby quite a lot when i'm going to derby matches and so on um but then it was people that were just um who just came over and normally people will say oh i know so and so normally because as well my first question is often like what have you listened to which ones did you enjoy but people there were a couple of random people who just came over and said i really enjoyed the podcast i still obviously ended up um quizzing them on which episodes they particularly enjoyed where they listened how they discovered it etc it's just quite interesting it's like the organic well fans is a bit of a cringe word but it's the organic fans it's the organic listeners i've had a couple of like parties even house parties uh where they were like oh my like you know for me they don't want to recognize me aside from dedicated fans who like these Jimmy vs the producer but when I I work on this podcast called Jimmy's Jobs and they go oh my god I bloody love that show and then I've got no connection to them but they say oh I work at that PR firm or then you're like okay it's all the PR firms, it all traces back to the PR firm to all the PRs listening that's like 99 it's like all of our fans although you were saying earlier about how would you say the 50 plus is the biggest growing audience yeah yeah yeah definitely i've noticed one of the on youtube our biggest growing audience demographic are people watching on the tv yeah and on audio our biggest growing audience demographic are people driving and listening uh maybe it seems pretty obvious to drive and listen to a podcast but that has just grown a huge amount which is worrying because that's it trends also similar to when we started uploading video to youtube so it's also jess butcher has been doing about 15 hours of travel over the last month.

35:52Oh, right. Yeah. That's where the 15 hours came. Thank you for doubling our hours, Jess Butcher. But yeah, no, so make sure you're not watching and driving. Yes. Thank you for listening while driving. Definitely. So anyway, we always start these with like, I'll watch out for like 20, 25 minutes. How long have we been? We're now knocking up at 37.

36:15But what are you looking forward to over the next quarter? Can I tell you about a cool thing that we might be doing over the next quarter? I mean this is really hot Do I know about this? No Go on We might be coming A media partner For the Nation of Artisans And British Craft Prize I'm excited tentatively What is it? So it's basically This guy called Louis Who has got this campaign together Which for the win Like basically It's£60 ,000 prize part Not bad For people that are Re-invoking Traditional craft Via modern technology So there They're made what we like, 3D printers, and so on. And I had a call with Louis the other day, and I was like, this is such a cool thing.

36:57Give us some more examples, like what? What are they making? There's all sorts, right? Well, they don't know. I mean, they've literally just launched it, right? So, I mean, he's visiting a few companies, and so on. But, like, the whole thing is, like, just to try and drive awareness. Is it like iPhone cases made out of clay, or? Is it a bit more? Yeah. It was a bit of everything, really. It's a bit. It's a good job you're a good producer, not a toolmaker, I think. yeah maybe it'll be Keir Starmer's dad tool maker yeah I didn't really think about a clay iPhone case but that's how much it was going to be basically they're going to they're trying to get as many applications but I had this amazing conversation where I was talking to him about distribution and where you want to kind of like distribute it and it just made me think of the old days of Jimmy's Jobs of the Future and like how when we didn't have any form of social following like how I look back when it's a classic entrepreneur thing it's like so naive it's just like well it'd just be like an amazing podcast and people will listen as a result like without realising that podcasts platforms don't really have and didn't certainly didn't then have any form of discoverability to them at all but anyway going back to this there's like loads of like cool companies we'll put the thread in the in the show notes that he did because I just think it's I think he's brilliant I think he's got a really clear vision for like where this thing goes and i think there's so many cool jobs that are out there that are kind of more oldie world but also there's a brilliant book earlier this year i read on craft about craft land and like all these amazing things that we do and i do think in a kind of like ai world as well where you know the knowledge economy and the white collar thing may be drastically changed like going back and doing some of this stuff will be it's quite feel good as well isn't it imagining someone in like a hut making something i mean i bang on about that is this working book from charlie colner all the time but like one of the things in there that i don't reference as much i talk about the bureaucracy and shadow work of it a lot but one of the things there that he thinks that makes people happy is having a direct relation to their work and working with their hands and so on and i would actually put you guys and what you do with video editing in the same category as that.

39:15I think it's that and having a direct relationship. You can be like, I got that TikTok. Would you put drivers into that category? Because an F1 driver, you definitely would, but then like a chauffeur? Yeah, I think it's more, one of the things it sort of points out is people that work in finance and whatever and are such a small cog in a machine that it's very difficult to be like, I did that. Whereas the classic one he talks about in there is like the baker and the butcher and the candlestick maker. And whatever, right? Maybe it's not so much the kind of butcher in that one. But I just think it's, I think having a direct kind of relation to your work and so on is really...

39:58It's those things where the knowledge is passed down, where there's like an unbroken thread through history where that person learns it from that person that learns it from that person. Yeah. how that knowledge was passed down it's the whole 10 000 hours thing i i suppose yeah and it's yeah exactly so i think it's just really do you reckon i think it's really cool what he's doing and i just i'm i'm also one of those things of where it's like yeah you want to you we only have so many allotted hours and whatever don't we like in the day of where we can help with this stuff um i just thought yeah it's the type of thing that takes so many of our kind of it's obviously not it's very jobs related etc so I thought that would be good In terms of that artisan thing I'm going quite thought experimenty here the act of writing or even typing is a fairly new thing so you would have learnt that you will have some parts of how you write or how you even type an email that you will have learnt from your father or your mother handed down.

41:10But that, you know, people weren't necessarily writing every day for 300 years ago. So I wonder what are some of the skills of today writing written word that we are still going to be... I mean, I guess it's not a given that that's still going to be around in 300 years. No, I think it's an interesting point. I mean, obviously it has existed for a long time, but it was the preserve of the elites, basically. But I thought the point that Jamie Bartlett was making in another episode earlier this quarter as well about like English and the command of the English language or any language for that matter, being like the meta skill is going to be so important.

41:51And it's interesting the amount of people I'm seeing on my feed at the moment who have spoken with AI and done various vibe coding and how much that is improving at kind of a rapid rate. And obviously I'd like to think that I'm quite a good speaker and so on but actually have you done e-barb coding? I've done a bit in terms of like we built that Jimmy bot didn't we? we built the Jimmy bot and we're trying to sort out personal website as well and so on have a play with it it really I thought it was quite a lot it was after the Helen Tupper one where she was saying how easy it was and I tried it out I think with Gemini and I made a little podcast editing game I should show it to you afterwards but I tell you the other interesting thing that we did with AI this quarter as well is we built a guest kind of radar system for it, which was quite interesting.

42:42And again, it was like the actual process of me sitting down, being like, this is what I look for in a guest, and so on, and being able to communicate that and get it down. Because you guys, I won't say always struggle, but are always like, it can be quite difficult to predict what Jimmy wants and what's going to float his boat, and he's a natural contrarian as well so whenever we pitch anything there's like an element of kind of like skepticism to it that he provides um but it was so it was quite interesting to go through and then so essentially working with the ai we came up with nine to eleven categories of what we were doing and then it was interesting going back and marking the episodes from the past on how they'd scored on all those points.

43:33And sometimes you won't know until you do the interview about it. And obviously some of these things, we were ranking them all out of five, but sometimes there are elements of something becomes more important what we're scoring it on at a given time because we've done lots of one other thing. And that's where I still think... It's a bit of balance. I mean, also a little insight into how our team works. We all think we're top-tier comedians. in Anthropi, someone took a photo of me walking along and they sort of made it look like I was part of the Beatles on Abbey Road. And when Jimmy built the Jimmy bottle, the guest radar thing, instantly, obviously, we all tried to jailbreak it.