Sara Davies: Why Now Is the Toughest Time to Run a Business

29:13What I've found has really made a difference is always having a vision of where I want to get to. Okay, and I don't know, you know, people talk about manifestation. I don't know if I believe in manifestation from the woo-woo side of it, right? What I do believe is if you have a clear idea of where you want to get and you write it down and put all of your energy and focus into it, you measure against how are we working towards that, you are more likely to get there and achieve it. So from that point of view, I think manifestation is absolutely critical. And I always talk about having a bee hug, a big, hairy, audacious gaw.

29:51A lot of people, you know, I talk about that quite often and people go, what's a BHAG? A big, hairy, audacious goal. You have a view of exactly what you want to get. And then from there, you just break down. Well, if that's the BHAG, what are the steps I need to have in play? What are the milestones along the road that would all ladder up towards that? And then, I mean, that feels overwhelming, but it's that age old story of, well, how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time, right? But if you don't know what elephant you're trying to eat, You don't know where you're heading towards it. So I've always been a fan of set a BHAG, have some milestones along the way.

30:27And my dad always instilled in me, if you reach for the stars, you might just get to the moon, right? Whereas if we only ever set out to reach the moon, we might not make it through the ozone layer, right? So have the big, hairy, audacious goal, have the passion, the vision, the drive to get there and know that what you are doing ladders up towards that goal and you'll be unstoppable. Yeah. um i think another word for manifesting is daydreaming yeah i think it is a problem actually with phones and that we have essentially like eliminated boredom in some ways oh my god yes and people just don't actually just sort of like i i know you've got quite into running as well i sometimes enjoy running without headphones because actually it's just a way to sort of like let your brain kind of wander and so on?

31:14So don't laugh at me, but I never, ever, ever run with headphones on. It's always just me and my thoughts. Also, if I'm on a long car journey, I won't have the radio on because I won't have the radio or any music because I relish that time to be with my thoughts and to think. The only time... So, for example, if I was down in Birmingham earlier this week, I spent the whole of the three-and-a-half-hour journey on the way there, preparing in my head, ready for the big day ahead. And then coming home, I give myself an hour of thinking and decompressing off the meetings. Then I'll put the radio on.

31:48Then I'll have some tunes because I want to switch off. But if, to me, if I'm using that as work time, I can't have it. I need to be focused. Yeah, I think that's so interesting. People think I'm weird when I admit it. Everyone's like, well, yeah, or I can't have music on in the background. You know, if I'm, if I'm working, if I'm doing a work from home, I can't have music on and so what's that what is the vision now what's what's the next sort of chapter what's i think um so you know 10 years ago i had this real focus on wanting to be to crafting what marybury was to cooking and actually i feel like i've achieved that in a big way you know that people think about crafting in our country now and people turn to me to to learn how to do this but what i have found since i've started doing the den especially is i now have i have this this voice and this ability to reach an audience of people who are either running small businesses and find me relatable.

32:48You know, I don't talk about how do we build a billion pound business. You know, I'm talking to the people who are working from the kitchen table and actually are just wanting to build something that can sustain their family, employ a couple of people in their village. These businesses are the backbone of our economy. And these people want want somebody to look up to, to learn from. And I'm realizing that that's a unique space that I can fulfill. And I'm all about stories. I've got a minute, hence the book, the six minute underbred with 52 stories. I've got a story. So many things have happened in my life and I just, I'm a sharer.

33:24And I think if I can share my stories with people so that if I've done something wrong, you can avoid doing it wrong. Or if I've done something right, I can tell you how I did it right so you can short track yeah short track shock i've made two words made a word up there two words fast track or shortcut to getting there faster than i than i've done it then i've done my job and and you know someone once taught me a rise and tide lifts all boats and i remember one of our the kids teachers at school they said um by making somebody else's light shine brighter you don't dim your own yeah so the more that the more that we can pass this around share it the more we create prosperity, the better everybody's going to be.

34:03So I'm very now, I think my BHAG now is very much fixated on how can I use the 20 years of business experience and knowledge I've got to help other people fast track to the same success that I've got. And also how can I make people feel good about that? So I remember when I was in my twenties and I mean, Dragon's Den was my, literally my favorite show. And I'd read every autobiography, every dragon that had been in the den. And I can't remember what they all said or what advice they all gave me but the one that always stuck with me was Duncan Bannertines because I read his book and I remember reading it thinking well there's no special about him he's not brains of Britain he hasn't had any opportunity in his life that anybody else wouldn't have he didn't grow up with a silver spoon in his mouth yet he has made a huge success and he's just driven really determined got all this ambition and if he can do it, there's absolutely no reason I can't do it as well because there's nothing he's got that I haven't.

35:03And I remember thinking my life ambition, one of the big ambitions was I wanted to write an autobiography like Duncan's so that other people would read mine and go, oh, she's not special. Is she not? There's literally nothing special about her. She's just had a really laser focus on what she can do and she's been so driven to get there. So if she can do it, hopefully it'll inspire other people to be able to do it because i think how you feel and your mindset is 99 % everything i agree with that how do you go about setting new b hags though right like what's you know you've achieved a couple of them in your career already how do you go about sort of thinking when you scale one mountain how do you pick the next okay so rome wasn't built in a day and also wasn't just built by one person okay and i'm a firm believer that you are a product of the people you surround yourself with, right?

35:56And it's not just about energy drains and energy vampires, it's people who will really build you up to be a better version of yourself. So I am really, really good with surrounding myself with people who challenge me on my thinking, push me to be better, you know, every day, won't tolerate inadequacy or, you know, laziness. And whether that's my husband, my family that are around us, the friends I surround myself with, They are always pushing and driving and inspiring me to be a better version. And these people, these are the people I'll talk to, to help me work through what's in my head. What I find is I am an extrovert.

36:35You know, I'm an ENFP and I'm very, very E in the ENFP, right? And so I have to talk things through. And even just, you know, talking this through with you on this podcast, I will come out of here with as much self-realisation as what other people will hearing about me, but I've got to talk it through. I've got to say it out loud. And every one of these conversations I have where somebody like you delves a little bit deeper into my psyche, I learn a bit more about myself. That's how I developed the BHAG. And then I'll chuck me running shoes on and I'll go and pound the roads and think it through till I come home and I need to talk it through with my husband and he'll help us, you know, just shape my thinking around it all.

37:12And with this kind of like voice that you have kind of created, built, what do you want to do with it in terms of changing the country, inspiring people?

37:28So, look, it's the elephant in the room, isn't it? Well, it's the elephant in every room. The landscape and technology is changing at such a fast pace. You know, the AI, everything that's moving on, the future of jobs is changing. The jobs, even now, you know, my kids are in year four and year seven at school. I don't even know by the time they get to university if there'll be any point in going to university. I don't know the jobs that they might aspire to want to do now might not even exist in five years time when they're getting there. Everything's going to change, right? They still need to be employed.

38:04They still need to earn a living. It's just not going to be in maybe the traditional way they know. What I do know is we're in control of our own destiny. You know, you hear so often now about all of the young people in unemployment. Well, are we teaching these people how to start their own business. Because if they apply for 100 jobs and get 100 rejections, right, yes, they can go and apply for the next 100, or they can take matters into their own hands and try and start their own business. And I think that's what I see I might be able to get involved with. So I think it's a really interesting point that it's harder than it's ever been to kind of get work experience, Saturday jobs, graduate jobs, like it's really tough out there.

38:45But But it is easier than ever before to start something, as we were saying just before. I'll give the example of two of the guys that are interning with us this summer. They started their own podcast. They came and interviewed me. And at the end of it, I was like, what are you guys doing this summer, right? You know, you can edit, you can click, like, you know, just come. And they've got that because of the initiative. And they did. And, you know, great. And they're making money as well. I just think it's so, and they just got out and just got started. I just worry sometimes that, particularly in social media age, that they're so worried about making mistakes and so on that people just don't venture out there, right?

39:26How do you sort of trigger that and it ignites the catalyst in people? So I think within entrepreneurs, one of the things that we are good at is we don't await perfection. You just kind of get going. What is it they say? You know, you jump out the plane and you build the parachute on the way down. I've probably got that saying completely wrong, but you'll have got the sentiment. Oh, yeah. And I think we just, the whole problem with social media is we get shown the Instagram, not the reality. Yeah. And so people keep thinking they've got to wait for this perfection before anything can happen. And then waiting becomes it never happening.

40:07Yeah. And that's the real downside. I think social media can be so powerful, can be such a way to transfer knowledge, but it can also mean that comparison is the thief of joy. You know, and you constantly compare and you always think, well, I'm never going to be like that. I'm never going to be good enough, so I'm not going to start. I really enjoyed your Insta versus reality post of the day where you were presenting at HSBC Awards in this very red, glamorous dress. I'm always, I'm not going to say what happened because I think people should check it out. When it split at the back, it was... That was 10 minutes.

40:42So I was in my room just coming down, ready to start presenting. And the makeup artist who'd done my makeup, she said, oh, don't wear the jacket, Sarah. That jumpsuit's incredible. Zips the jumpsuit up. As she got the zip to the top, the whole zip split. So just unzip it and zip it back up. She's like, it's not moving. So the only way we could get around it is to safety pin the back of the jumpsuit again and wear the jacket so nobody would ever know. But the problem is it's not reality. You know, all them people see a lovely, shiny, perfect version of me. And what I wanted to see is, yeah, anybody else might have had a complete meltdown 10 minutes before they went on stage and either refused to go on stage or have to go and get another outfit or whatever.

41:20And I was like, oh, it'll be all right. You know, nobody's ever going to know. And I thought, no, let's tell everybody. Because everybody needs to, you know, the show must go on. Life happens. How important do you think it is for businesses to kind of create content for all these channels, right? Because obviously you built a business via it, right? But it is a real skill set, as I've learned. But it's quite hard if you're running a business to know how to do that and so on. How important is it, do you think? I think it's monumentally important. We are a generation of content consumers. Whether we like it or not, that is the way we are.

42:02And if your brand is not visible in that sphere and that space, what you are missing out on is enormous. But what a lot of people, and I try and teach a lot of my investments this, what they are not seeing is they are creating content that suits the message they want to get out. They're not creating content that that audience wants to consume. so you know yes don't get me wrong i would love to make every other advert every other post on my instagram something promoting craft products that i am selling right and what i realize is people don't want to watch the instagram videos of the craft product i'm selling what they will do is watch me making toilet the insides of toilet rolls into something or reusing kitchen paper to make them into flowers, things that are free using stuff that you have around the house.

42:58That's what people are interested in. What I've taken is a long-term view on it. And I've thought, you know what? If I can get people interested in craft and using stuff that they have around the house and not spending any money and doing crafts, I could get millions of people interested in craft. In turn, a high proportion of those will get really into it and will go on to become my future customers. But that's a five to 10 year strategy. But you've got to have time and patience to do that. To do it. And what about sort of LinkedIn specifically? Because obviously you're a business leader and you've got an enormous amount of followers there.

43:33How do you think about using that platform differently? So do you know what's really fascinating for me about LinkedIn is I'm sick of just getting more and more drovel that AI is spat out. Right? And it is. And I'm not seeing what, you know, I would start and follow somebody because I think they have an interesting perspective on something, but I'm not seeing their perspective on it now. I'm seeing they've thought, oh, great, I can shortcut creating content. I'll just go and ask ChatGPT to write me five posts. And so they're not telling me what that person thinks. They're telling me what ChatGPT thinks based on what everybody's saying.

44:09So I'm just not interested in that anymore. And what I found really, I'm not saying that AI can't be great because I think it can absolutely be brilliant. But what I'm really interested in and the post of mine that did the best is when something's really had a profound impact on my thinking. And I've articulated that in a LinkedIn post. Now, what I've learned is I'm not the best at writing. I'm not quite dyslexic, but I'm not strong at being able to verbalize. problem with me is if I can say it in 10 words or I can say it in 100 I'm saying it in 100 right so for example that six minute entrepreneur book that you've been reading right I had to work with a ghost writer who she's not a ghost I tell everybody Alex Emmonsley wrote all of my books I explain the story to her she puts it into a concise because I wanted every lesson to be six minutes so I would give her 20 minutes of chat she'd have to get into six minutes of reading right and that's a skill that's what AI can help you with now so what I quite often do is if I want to communicate something to my audience, I will either speak it or write it and I'll just go hell for leather typing it, then I'll get AI to help me condense it.

45:17It's still my thinking, but it's helped me communicate in a way that's accessible to people. That to me is way more powerful than somebody who's just said, yeah, just spit me out the next bit of content. It's so funny because I think that's the big danger with it is that people are just writing more and more and there was a post this week from a founder who'd been into downing street and whatever and it was the first half of it was great and then the second half of it i was just like it's clearly just been written by ai and it's so infuriating to read and you also feel cheated i find when you've read it like i feel quite outraged almost because i'm like you think that I'm, it's not even like full for it, but it's like you can't be bothered.

46:05You think your time is more important than my time consuming the content. I don't know. Yeah. It's a kind of funny thing. I think you've hit the nail on the head really well there. What have you used AI for? What I like, what I do like to use it to do, which I find really helps me is to pull my thoughts into a really concise and condensed way. So I'm a huge lover of voice notes, right? And so I now spend a lot of time voice noting chat GPT. So I, you know, I was on a flight the other day, an eight hour flight, and I had several documents I had to pull together with my thoughts on something. So what I do is I open up a new chat and I'll say, and I'll tell it, right, I'm going to tell you all about this and I'm going to keep telling you little bits and pieces and I don't want you to do anything until I tell you I'm done, right?

47:00And then I'll go. So the other day I was doing a handover document on the last 10 years of development of our strategy in a certain area in the business. And it was about an hour of my thinking. And so all I did is I kept explaining it to Chattoob and I would just go, and then I'd go, oh, and then I forgot to tell you that this happened. And when I got to the end of telling everything, I went, right, now you know everything, please put that down in a concise document. And it output me the six page document that I could then send around as the board paper. That to me is the real value. It's all of my thinking.

47:33Someone once said to me with AI, you should do, let it do 80 % of the work. So you should do 10 % of the ideation journey. It does the 80 % admin in the middle, and then you do the 10 % humanizing. And in this case, you know, I did all of the downloading of the thoughts, but it helped me structure them thoughts in a way that I could effectively communicate them to other people. Yeah, makes a massive difference. Speaking about you using your voice and wanting to inspire people, etc., have you thought about politics at all? I don't think politics is ready for me. Shall I? Which is exactly why you should do it, probably.

48:13I don't think politics could cope with me. Do you know, I'm really good friends with the local mayor of the North East. Yes. And I think what, so I'm used to being the boss. So I'm used to being in control. And yes, I can lead and bring people on the journey with me. But at the end of the day, if they don't, they still have to come on the journey with me anyway, because I'm paying their wages. Yeah. It's how I've always operated. and what I don't like is the political maneuvering and all of the behind the scenes. That does not float my boat. I think you'd be a very good man though. And what are you, how are you sort of preparing your kids for the world of work?

48:58We touched on it earlier, but I bet it's something you get asked about a lot at the kind of school gates, et cetera. I think the thing that terrifies me is what I think makes me special and what's given me an edge is that, you know, I've had to work really hard for everything that I've got. You know, I didn't grow up from a position of privilege and that's made me really appreciate the value of money and how hard you have to work to get where you want to be and to have that dreamer manifestation mentality or whatever, but the work ethic to go and achieve it. And my kids won't struggle like I did, but that was what made me who I am and I'm worried that my kids aren't grown up in that environment how do I give them everything I want them to have but I don't want them to have it at the same time because I want them to have to work to earn it themselves and how are you going to do that?

49:56I don't know, I was hoping you might give me some insight I'll tell you what, I can share a story about it so my dad was a coal miner and his dad died when he was seven so he basically had to work all the way through his kind of childhood years and you know sort of paper rounds etc and he now he ends up becoming a conservative politician which is a bit of a twist in that story but he had always said to me when I was sort of young growing up he was like you know no son of mine is going to have to work etc and he's just going to focus on his studies etc anyway he did 180 degree term when I was about 15 he was like actually I think it'd be quite good for you to get a job much to his frustration i called my best friend and basically got a job pretty much straight away helping out the local golf club but i mean i look back at it now and i learned so much from it and yeah i think you know yeah getting to work i mean i worry less of those jobs that exist now actually um but i think yeah trying to try and instill in them the value of money etc is and hard work and it being theirs right and i mean i look at them so then nine and twelve at their age i've been working in our family business for several years you know i i grew up knowing that's just what we had to do we had to help out in the shop on a saturday morning and yes we got 50p or a couple of quid as i got a bit older but it was just it was what i was expected of you because it wasn't just to get the money it was it was what our family needed you know we couldn't afford all of the stuff that we needed.

51:32So we would have to muck in like that. My kids haven't got that opportunity. And I always thought if in starting my own business, well, I would be in control of that. Problem is the business was so big. I can't send my kids to help out in our warehouse. Our health and safety guy would have an absolute fealty. You know, I wouldn't. So it's, it's really hard to, how do I do that? And actually my sister's taken over our family business. And she said to me, I'll put them to work, send them in. And I think that's, that's absolutely what we need completely so what's the the family business versus the crafting business then what's okay so um my mom and her mom so my mom and my nana started a business 40 years ago now so they started the um a shop in our village a decorating store wallpaper and paint serving the trade and and the end consumers and they built that up over you know 20 odd years and it wasn't they hoped I might take over the family business and I was going to so I went off to university to study to learn about management so that I would know the kind of modern way of thinking and the modern techniques about whereas they were a little bit outdated with it then I started crafters companion as a bit of a side hustle from my university bedroom and then nine months later when I graduated crafters companion was bigger than we valley decorating center that had been gone for 25 years.

52:52So I was like, okay, so maybe I'm not doing that. So then I came back home, moved back after uni and continued to build Crafters Companion. And luckily for them, they had a spare, right? And I always joke and call my sister the spare or whatever. But interestingly, she had no interest. Whereas I wanted to go to university to learn business, to potentially take over the family business, she didn't. She wanted to move away, live away from home, have a corporate job, work in corporate life. And it wasn't until she decided she wanted to start a family that she realized actually it was going to be so difficult juggling family life and a career.

53:31So here was the family business. Maybe she would just come and learn and take over the family business. And that was 10 years ago. So whereas I hadn't done it then, and I always said to my mom and dad, you know, if you need to retire and you need me to take over the business, I will. And I'll just put a manager in. They didn't really want that. They wanted it to matter to someone. So Helen moved back 10 years ago, took over the family business. So she's been able to flex that around having a family. She's got two daughters as well now, and her husband has now come to work in the business too. So they run the business together.

54:01And so it's third generation family owned of my sister. It was 10 years ago and they've grown the business 15 fold. The 10 years that they've been, they've taken it online, really expanded multiple sites so she's got a different whereas i've got experience of building a business from scratch and investing in other businesses she's got the experience of buying out the family business and building you know continuing to build on something that's got a 30-year foundation but take it on to another another level and another generation and you two have just started a podcast together as well we have what have you learned from doing that um i've learned that we We are very different people and we don't always see the world through the same lens.

54:45It's funny because, so the podcast was, it's really for either small business owners or people who are interested in small business. A little bit like the people who watch and enjoy Dragon's Den aren't just the people who are running businesses. They're the people who are interested in business and want to learn more. That's our podcast. People who want to understand a little bit more about business. And so that's what we do and that's who we target at. and we've built a lovely community of small business owners who really support each other through that but every episode we record every week and every episode we sit down we start off by saying well what's happened in your week now obviously I have a lovely celebrity lifestyle and lots of fun things that I get to do and she's living more at the coalface and and the and the slightly less glamorous side let's just save business and um and she's I'm not going to say she's a negative Nelly because she's not, but I'm, I'm such a positive person.

55:41It's not a case that my cup is half full. Mine's overflown. Right. And then sometimes compared to me, our poor Helen is like, um, is now dinner cup, you know? So we joke about that every week. So, so every week, I mean, the economy is pretty tough right now. Running a small business, it is, I mean, I've been in business 20 years. I've never known anything like the situation we find ourselves in now. So every week she opens up with, you know, how's your week been? And it's either been pricing, increases from suppliers or their landlords doubling their rent or whatever it is. And so I'm like, oh, come on, get the violins out, pet.

56:15But she's trying to share how she's tackled this and what she's doing about it to give practical advice to people. And then I come sailing in with, well, I was at a conference speaking to a thousand entrepreneurs this week and I was talking about this, that and the other. And my suit bust, you know, so it's always a tale of two halves with us why do you think it is the toughest it's been in 20 years right what's going on i think it is a compounding number of things you know i think we had brexit and we started to feel the ramifications of that but we were still feeling the ramifications of that when the pandemic happened and then we all had to deal with the pandemic and the uncertainty and the you know But the world never went back to how it was before the pandemic.

57:03It just forced an evolution really fast and businesses had to adapt and change for that. And then after the pandemic, we had to kind of write what had been done in the pandemic in terms of, you know, if you look at what they're playing about with the BAT and the businesses that had the support for furlough, so many businesses that took out small business loans that they probably didn't need, but they were getting thrown at them and then were in loads of debt and having to cope with that. So you had the aftermath of all of that compounding again. And then, you know, the whole, the world economy post the pandemic has just been a shit show for want of a better word.

57:43And it's how we cope with that. And then the whole in our economy here and how the government is having to deal with us. You know, at the end of the day, we couldn't keep going into more and more you know, the government has had to lean into, there's an economic problem and we need to work hard to fix that. I would say this, but we are the backbone of the UK economy. And I heard a great saying from the head of the FSB last week, and he said, you know, we're seen as very much a niche within the economy. We're not the blummin' niche, we're the economic engine. We really are. But because these are small businesses and quite often lifestyle businesses, they're overlooked.

58:24And we just expect it. You know, if I look at our Helen's business, she employs what? 20 odd staff. And just the changes in national minimum wage last year, that was, she had to let go of two members of staff just to manage to keep the same level of cost of her staffing. And so how on earth do you lose 10 % of your workforce yet still have to maintain the same level of output, the same level of cost? And it's terrifying what businesses are having to go through. And what I find is on social media, you see the glamorized version of it quite often because nobody wants to read doom and gloom or, you know, everything's terrible at the moment.

59:05Yeah. So, but it's Instagram versus reality, you know, and we have to give that. And that's what we try and do a lot on the podcast is we paint the picture of reality and then tell everybody how the hell we're coping with it and hopefully give them little hints and tips on how they might be able to cope as well. Yeah. Yeah. No, it is. It is really tough. I don't feel we should finish. I feel we should finish. We're not having that level of negativity for the end. You've got to leave everybody come bouncing out of this podcast thinking I enjoyed listening to Sarah Daly's. Not that she was miserable at the end.

59:36Exactly. It's the worst it's ever been in 20 years. Oh, geez. Who do you think? Who would be a good kind of dragon? What should the next dragon? Because we're speaking after Tuca has kind of said he's stepping back as well. yeah but what do you think what could the den do i mean it's been quite interesting the rotating cast list they've had with gary neville and joe wicks and suzy mara i think has been particularly brilliant uh and emma greed as well um what do you what do you think should be next i just think business nowadays very different to the old school business that you had all them years ago and even you know it really it made me feel great what you said to me at the beginning of this podcast about you know I made people think differently about business I can remember even just getting ready for my first episode on the den you know I had to go and see a stylist and so we looked back at what the female dragons wore every year and I looked at them and I was like, well, I can't wear that.

1:00:39That's just so not who I am. And so I ended up with a high street, purple, spotty dress. And I was amazed the producers let me wear it. But I just think even that was changing the face of how we do business. Look at how Stephen Bartlett dresses in the den every year. You know what that is? But more people are turning up and doing business looking like me and Stephen that are turning up suited and booted like in the olden days. And I think you've got to see it to be it. So we need that panel of dragons to be representative of what business looks like in the UK in 2026. You know, it's got to stay not even up to date with the times, but ahead of the time because we film and you don't see it until sometimes 12, 18 months later.

1:01:31So it's got to be right at the cutting edge of what actually business looks like for people to relate to it. Yeah, yeah, definitely. It does feel like it is a long lag time sometimes between the recordings and so invested in a couple of super books was one of the ones that I kind of backed as an angel. Super books. Which was like, I mean, that was, again, Charlene and Simon, great couple. They were like, afterwards, they were like, yeah it's gone it's gone well like we'll need and i was like oh blimey and then i watched it and was like flipping heck that is that must be one of the most memorable ones i imagine it must be you know it's um i think they were brave to come in the den and do something very different to what anybody else had they made us an offer that it's almost impossible to refuse yeah you know from a commercial standpoint giving you one percent of my business for a quid how do you how How do you say no to that?

1:02:23And then what have they got now? They've got a panel of five dragons who are all on the hook for doing what they can to help that business develop. Yeah. Clever, really, when you think about it. What are some of your other favourite ones? Looking back. Oh, you see. I know. You ask me this. And then it's like, would you tell me who your favourite of the three kids are? You wouldn't dare do it. Like, you might have a favourite in your head, but you wouldn't dare say it out loud. I always joke. It depends which day. It's very much that. But I think the ones that have really stayed with me are the ones that are where I'm having an impact.

1:02:57So, for example, Maison Business, it was my second year in the den, they called Wilsow. And it was a third generation family business of printers and the printing industry was on decline. And so that third generation had come up with an idea to kind of reinvent the face of the business. And he puts seeds into paper. so pulps the paper and puts the seeds into it and then he paired up with an illustrator and a writer and wrote some children's books so the book would be about the carrot who got too big for his bed and then after you've read the book you cut off the back cover and you plant it and it will grow the main character from the book because that paper is infused with carrot seeds or it would be the you know the there was a one about lettuce or the herb heroes so it's you know it's a fantastic concept and it changed the face of that business.

1:03:48He pivoted as the third generation. And from me coming on board, you know, he's now doing business over in the States. I've taught him to sell on TV. He's quite a little QVC master he is. David Beckham buys their books and reads them to the kids. You know, he's taken the business recently over to Japan on a trade mission with UKDA. I mean, it's incredible to see. And their business celebrated their 80th year in business just last year. And, you know, the amazing party that was had was just incredible. But I just see and I think I have helped him as he's the one who's changed the face of the business, not me.

1:04:26I've just helped mentor him through that change. And I feel so proud to be a part of that business and to be a part of their journey. And I've had an impact on his family. And now he's got a little baby as well. And, you know, it's getting the fourth generation ready for taking this over. and I just, it feels really good to have done some good. And there were several businesses I've invested in where it's a very similar story to that, where that business is having a real impact. So the ones I would tell you about aren't the ones that have necessarily made me millions and made the most amount of money.

1:04:57It's the ones who've had the bigger impact. And what about the anti-portfolio? Are there any that you missed out on that you sort of look back and think, ah. You know, people always ask this. And I think in a series, you know, we see up to 100 businesses and there'll be maybe 12 that I make an offer on that I have to then go through due diligence and I do so much work on. So you forget about the 88 that you didn't invest in. And then it's not till sometimes the show comes out and I see them and I was like, oh, I forgot about that one. Oh yeah, they were awesome. And quite often it's not the ones that I didn't invest in.

1:05:33It's the ones that I made an offer on and they didn't pick me. Those are the times when I get really annoyed, like really annoyed. Like there's a, there's a company local to us. When they came in the den, they were called Super U. But on some feedback from Peter Jones, they rebranded to Real, R-H-E-A-L, Real and it's Green's Superfoods, right? And they're a local company to us in the, in the Northeast. And I mean, their business is probably knocking on worth over a hundred million now. And, you know, when they came in the den, they were worth about a million. And what they didn't, I made an offer.

1:06:07They didn't choose me because they were in the health space. they chose Tej Levani, which I could totally understand. But it's not that I'm kicking myself because I made an offer and I offered at the Ascombe price and I was the first one in to offer, but I wasn't the best dragon for them. So do you know what? I've just enjoyed watching their story from the sidelines. Well, that's good. That's a more positive end. There we are. Brilliant. So, ladies, thanks very much for coming on Jury's Jobs in the Future. We've got a few quick fires for you just to get you used to politics, which I definitely think you should do.

1:06:40I'm just going to ignore that trumpet and crawl back under my little rucky I'll keep saying it the world of politics is not ready for Sarah Davies what's your favourite takeaway? I do like a bit of Chinese Chinese yeah my husband's a fish and chip boy but greasy what was your favourite dance on Strictly? I don't talk about Strictly at all okay controversial probably my Argentine tango And the reason I say controversial is it's the one I got knocked out on. Oh. So the ones that I was the top of the leaderboard for were my foxtrot and my tango. I love a ballroom dance. Argentine tango is not ballroom, but I just love the chemistry.

1:07:24I love it. It was so technical. I love that Aliash was having to learn it at the same time as me because he wasn't an Argentine. You know, he's a ballroom expert. And the couple that taught us Argentine tango, they were amazing. Honestly, it was one of the best weeks of my life learning that dance. but then it was also one of the worst weeks because I got knocked out on that one. Yeah, bittersweet. Yeah. What car do you drive? I drive an electric Audi. An electric Audi. Very proud. I went fully electric two years ago. Oh, did you? Yes. How have you found it? I've gone electric as well. So I get huge range anxiety when I have to go long distances and I'm all right.

1:08:02So for example, I can go to Birmingham in my electric car comfortably now because I've worked out on a full charge. If I change the setting so that I'm not at 80%, I'm at 100%, full charge can get me to the NEC. They've got a fast charger. I can pull in for 20 minutes, get it boomed right back up, and then I'm all right around Birmingham. Then I'll call at the NEC, knock back up again and go back. But if I'm going somewhere new, I'm really nervous to take my electric car because I think, what if I don't manage to find a fast charger? And what if I don't have enough time to stop and charge before we meet and then I run late?

1:08:29And all the anxiety, it's just another thing to have to worry about. Oh, OK. You don't sound that convinced. No, but you know, 99 % of the time when I'm driving around, it's brilliant. Brilliant for dotting around the doors, brilliant for journeys I know. Just the only time it throws me is when I go on a new journey with it. I can learn a new route. When did you last feel scared? So I'm a bit embarrassed to admit this. I'm 42 years old and I'm still frightened of the dark. So actually, quite regularly. So like, I'm away from home tonight, so I'll be staying in the hotel room. so I will leave the bathroom light on so I've got a bit of light in there or I'll leave the telly on on mute all night.

1:09:09Right, okay. Didn't expect that. You still answered it. But what was the first thing you did for money? So obviously I worked in the shop, my mum and dad's shop, but they didn't really pay me much. When I was 15, I remember, I used to chalk on, which is scoring. I used to, really in cricket, they say chalk on. So I used to be the scorer for our local first team and I used to do it. It would be seven hours on a Saturday afternoon and all the players would have to give us 50p. So that was£5.50 I would get. Seven hours of score on a Saturday afternoon. I did get a husband out of it though, so it went all right.

1:09:48What do people get wrong about Dragons, Dan? What do people get wrong about Dragons? Or about the Dragons? I do think that when you watch the show, So like Tuca gets a bit of a bad rep. You know, you go on Twitter or whatever it's called these days and people are really negative about him. And I think you're only seeing the edited version of what he's saying. The problem with Tuca is, I mean, Craig, if I can say it in 10 words, I can say it in 100, he'll say it in 500, right? He goes round the houses to explain something. So it all gets cut out in the edit. So what you are seeing is not the wonderful, kind, loving, caring Tuca that I've seen, that I've seen, offering all of this advice to this entrepreneur, you're just seeing them cut to the reason why he said he's out and then he's off.

1:10:33And so I think that you haven't seen the full experience of what I get to see sitting in one of those chairs. And then you form opinions based on the dragons or even the pictures based on the little bit that you get to see, which is the bit that was TV worthy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would definitely put you at opposite ends of the dragon scale, actually. um what would be your favorite craft thing to do on a wet sunday afternoon haven't got wi-fi so um the business crafter's companion is paper craft primarily card making so for me it's a bit of a busman's holiday whenever i do that so if i'm wanting to do a craft to wind down it's got to be not that yeah not anything at all connected to work so like i took up crochet again a few years ago and I remember macrame if I do a little bit of macrame it's got to be something that's got you've got to be focused enough that I've got to be in the moment doing it yeah but it's also got to be enough of a switch off so it can't just be mind-numbing because then actually I'm just doing it like knitting for me the same stitch over and over and over again which means I stop concentrating on it and I start focusing on other stuff whereas if I'm crocheting a little thing I'm following a pattern so I can only ever let my mind wander for 20-30 seconds because then I've got to be counting following the next bit of the pattern.

1:11:53Well thank you very much for coming on Jimmy's Jobs of the Future. I should say that my daughter has just started watching Dragons then. She's six and it is it really is a it's inspiring she has lots of sort of business ideas largely revolving around selling sweets it must be said. That's a good idea that's where I made money at first I I used to go and buy this on the way to the bus stand on a morning. I used to go up the shop. I used to spend a quid on some sweets, break them down into smaller little sweet bags or whatever, sell them in the girls' toilets in the first break and make that pound into three pound.

1:12:25So I think she's onto something. She's onto something. But I think it's great that she gets to see you as a younger woman business leader and doing it. It's so inspiring. So thanks very much for coming on Jimmy's Jobs in the Future. Well, I thoroughly enjoyed it. What a cracking conversation it's been. Fall is the perfect time to refresh and reorganize your space. At the Home Depot, find power tools and tool sets starting at$50 to help tackle DIY projects, home updates, and more. Whether you're drilling brackets to support new shelving or sharpening your hedge trimmer blade with an angle grinder, the Home Depot has the tools you need to check projects off your list.

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