STOP Doing Courses: The New Way to Learn at Work | Helen Tupper

25:41Helen Tupper:same place probably would have done it quicker so just thinking like if i think about what we know like in their stand-up for example you're experimenting yeah because and you're you're experimenting you're being a beginner you are probably failing quite a lot i don't know i don't i didn't see it i don't see it jimmy but i'm sure some jokes didn't laugh exactly you haven't

25:59Jimmy:seen it since so you know it hasn't it's not on netflix i'm just making an assumption um and then

26:05Helen Tupper:also uh connecting so there's four elements i would imagine in what you did as part of that experience that actually lock in learning and so yes you could have i don't know read a book on how to do stand-up comedy and you might have learned by reading the book but actually what you would have taken from experimenting failing connecting um those those elements are like

26:31Jimmy:really really important for making learning last yeah that no that that's true but I just think I sometimes think I run towards the sort of shorthand of doing a course and I think it will navigate me through it quicker so it was when you were like learning does not have to look like a course like I was just like oh feel seen there um you may have noticed we've been doing something different recently from our budget live stream to the episode where I sat down with the producers we've been experimenting with new formats that you've been asking for. We want to do much more of that in 2026, but truthfully, those episodes don't quite perform like some of our blockbuster ones with Prime Ministers or Business Titans, even though amongst our core fans, they're often your favourite.

27:19Jimmy:So in early 2026, we're giving you the opportunity to be even more involved with the show, and we are launching Jimmy's Jobs backstage. The waitlist is now open, and if you pledge your annual support we'll etch your name into our brand new studio. We'll be able to bring you more into the show by listening to your guest suggestions and your questions that you have for them and there'll also be more live shows next year which you'll get early access to. If you or someone you know are a fan of this new way of doing media check out the show notes to see how to join us backstage or give it as a Christmas gift and hey you might even be able to put it through your learning and development budget.

28:01Jimmy:See you backstage. Now back to the episode. But what does learning look like then, right? And what's it going to look like, do you think, in the next five to ten years as well, right, as the world changes?

28:13Helen Tupper:I guess the thing that I am, there's two things I'm really excited about that I don't see today, but I would love to see. When you're like, what does learning look like? What I would like it to look like I would really like to see more teams learning together so we've talked at the moment very much about me learning or you learning and I think there is a really big opportunity to find more moments for teams to learn together because that's where we're spending most of our time and in the meetings and moments we're already in if we can be doing team experiments if we with this really great thing we call them like helpful how-to so there's a you know a proven way that we can learn more is by sharing so the kind of insight here is if I'm going to share something with you that I know first of all I have to recall like what do I know about whatever this thing is then I have to think how can I articulate that in a way that is useful so it's kind of like another like mental loop that I need to go through and then I have to share it with you in a format that's going to be relevant those processes clarify that knowledge in my mind so it's much clearer now I'm like oh yeah you start to think I've got a gap there maybe I don't know that very much so sharing is a really powerful way that we improve our learning as well as moving it to someone else that we're passing that on to and we have these things called helpful how-tos it's a really fun team experiment to do and we didn't constrain it to work you could you could say everyone in the team you're in a meeting that you're already in and you go everyone in the team has got five minutes here's a post-it note everyone in the team has got five minutes to write down a helpful how-to about something they know that they think would be useful for other people in this room to know now you could constrain it to work and people will talk about i don't know co-pilot prompts and how to i don't know manage their meetings or create useful agendas that people can actually feel good about at the end so you could constrain it to work we didn't and we had everything from how to make a cold press coffee or something someone someone of my team knows a lot of languages how to learn a language I did how to create a custom GPT because I'm that geeky but it was the it's a really fun way of learning in teams and so that's just like one element I think there is we do these sprints so we have yesterday so I messaged me over a 120 people in Kerry, a company that we work with, Kerry Dairy, are sprinting this week.

30:49Helen Tupper:And these are team moments for learning. And it's 10 minutes a day that teams are doing. I think it is a lot easier to create learning cultures in companies if it's not just about every individual needs to do it for themselves or every leader needs to espouse it. If we make it easier for teams to learn together, I get really excited about the potential there. and then the second one is I'd love to see learners celebrated you know how you know we celebrate people getting promoted well done you reach the next level I would love to see like well done look at what you learned I'd love us to put learners on a bit of a pedestal because at the moment I'm having to put a lobster on the pedestal so I've got a role model I know what I want to do you know I don't really want to replace lobsters but I would like lobster learners I'd like the real people to be there to be role models in companies i think that's true the the individual

31:43Jimmy:side is interesting because i often think of the school system is generally quite weighted towards individualistic uh endeavors and actually most of life isn't um even though we've put somebody on that pedestal sometimes i think it's it's one of the things that actually where the school system is is most misplaced in terms of preparing people for the outside world it's also the fact that schools massively over index on academic ability for the first 18 years very few jobs actually require that kind of like academic ability um but i i also think the school system gets a lot of stick i don't think many people have come up with better ways for like how to change it and i see my own kids at the moment like for the first sort of few years of school really actually what they're being taught is you know how to write how to count how to do maps and they are the basic building blocks of what you're gonna need across the board as well

32:41Helen Tupper:what's the most interesting thing you've learned lately that's a really good question um probably

32:53Helen Tupper:we're doing a lot of work around saying the hard thing um again it's come it's come from the book and the point is that it's connected to feedback and actually that a lot of people struggle to say the hard thing and so an awful lot gets unsaid at work. Margaret Hevenon has talked about this with the amount of things that people do not raise that they want to at work is getting in the way of growth and so we believe that giving people a tool and a framework to say the hard thing is a way to make this easier but to your point on what I've learned so we've been experimenting this in that company we're experimenting this with other companies and what i have come at the sort of surprising thing that i've learned is that the two skills there is definitely the ability to say the hard thing that is a skill there's a skill and a framework and you know that's a skill but hearing the hard thing is equally important and until i started doing this stuff like putting into practice I didn't realize that that is also a really really important part of the learning process because if I don't if I don't have a skill of hearing the hard thing then what happens is you you say it to me and you're you're you know you've nailed your framework you're really good you said the hard thing exactly right but the learning doesn't land because I don't know how to hear the hard thing so I respond in a very defensive way oh well well well Jimmy or I get emotional or whatever but hearing the hard thing like holding or ignore it do nothing with it and being able to kind of hear the hard thing and hold it so that you can actually learn from it my one of my favorite things in hearing the hard thing is then we have this sort of approach it's called the multiplier effect and this is like new is new to me we've kind of worked on it we've experimented with it and it's really working for me so let's say you say the hard thing to me something about today's conversation or some work that you've seen us do and you're like Helen needs to hear this and you know instead of me defending my work or being you know really upset by it I would kind of acknowledge like I appreciate you sharing that with me but I don't have to answer you then and there okay I need to acknowledge it appreciate you sharing that with me but the multiplier effect is where I go and take your feedback and I then go and talk about it with a couple of other people now very quickly very quickly could be same day within the sort of 48 hours I might talk to my business partner I might say oh Jimmy's giving me this feedback on dot dot that's happened I'd really appreciate your perspective like what would you do in this situation and then I take that bit of insight and I go and talk to someone else maybe I'm a mentor and I said I've had this thing that's happened I've had this feedback I've had this advice I'm really interested if you've been in this situation you know what would you recommend to do and these what happens is each one of those conversations does two things it puts me back in control because you saying the hard thing to me my i might not have been expecting it but these conversations i'm in control of control makes people more feel more comfortable it reduces the fear so that we can actually learn from it and the second is i multiply the learning because i've got your insights but instead of just responding to it and that being the end i've then extended it by sharing it with a couple other people and the thing that is really important is that you then close the loop so I then come back to you and I say Jimmy just wanted to like come back on the conversation that we had on Monday um I've taken it away these are my reflections these are some insights I've had and this is what I'm going to do and you know I would probably say just want to say thank you because I wouldn't have got to that learning without you starting that conversation that is a much much more powerful way to hear the hard thing and learn from it rather than what most people do is they they you give it I respond in the moment and it's it's it's the end of the conversation the end of the conversation and I don't feel in control because you took me by surprise and I've just I've really been learning about the impact of it personally I've been practicing that we've been working with companies this idea of saying and hearing the hard thing is really landing in companies because people just aren't doing it enough and I'm quite I'm quite excited about what we can what more we can do with it can you give

37:09Jimmy:a personal example of when that's happened in terms of the hard feedback and how you've done that multiplied thing yeah what do you think what are you not good at as well I suppose

37:22Helen Tupper:well I guess a more recent one there was a situation Sarah and I had recently we were she won't mind me saying this she won't mind me saying it we were away actually at the National Lobster Hatchery in Padstow where we are now patrons because we've gone pretty deep in the world of lobsters, pun entirely intended. We were there and we were having dinner and I decided this would be a great time to give Sarah some feedback. I mean, spoiler, it wasn't. So we'll get to this in a minute. And the feedback that I was giving Sarah was that I thought she was trying to take control of too many things in the business and she was taking the lead away from other people in doing that like in a quest for control she was limiting other people's autonomy effectively and it's quite it was quite it's quite direct feedback to which sarah quite rightly was quite defensive about because i hadn't used i i hadn't delivered the feedback in a way that we have designed it to be done which is like start with an open question acknowledge where someone is say the statement quite quickly and then very quickly involve like that's what I should have done I just said it and stopped like because I felt really awkward about it which is what you know which is what a lot of people do when they have a difficult message to deliver and um Sarah and I you know we've been friends for a really long time so we kind of had a moment of discomfort and friction and then quickly flipped to curiosity because we're so we were kind of wired to do this together now but I took that moment because I mean I got sort of two things came from it like one I'd upset someone I really care about because of my inability to deliver feedback um and two I hadn't kind of landed the message that I wanted for our business it just I was like this is wrong and kind of Sarah sort of played that back to me and then I talked about that with other people I talked about with some people in the team in terms of you know how are you finding how I give feedback am i too direct to my like what's the best for you um it's various different people that i talked to who would who would have experienced feedback with me yeah um and i took their insights i talked to other people as well who are more direct than me and said would you have done it like this how would you have done it differently not doing it over dinner was a common was a common thread like give someone the heads up helen don't yeah like how's your dinner by the way yeah like so it but it allowed me to take a moment that I felt like I had failed in and rather than the feeling of failure sitting with me of like oh gosh how badly did I do that and my you know my best friend didn't think it was great I was then able to say well actually you know what because I've taken that and I've talked about it with other people I've learned more from their approach I've learned more about my approach and then I and then I closed the loop with Sarah which actually resulted in us improving the model improving the model improving the framework and you know it's a bit meta in my world because we give feedback we write about feedback it's a little bit meta but it is the reality I do you know I do have to say the hard thing I am doing this in my own work as well as trying to help other people with theirs yeah yeah no I can I can see that and that yeah feedback feedback feedback loops lots of them constant loops um i am very unfairly going

40:48Jimmy:to ask you at some point to use three words to describe me actually but i'm not i'm not gonna do i'll let i'll let you i'll let work on background ram for a bit maybe we can finish with um keep keep listeners engaged um talk us through the business model of amazing if squiggly careers because i think it's very interesting because when i was starting out with Jimmy's Jobs in the Future, as I've talked about, I was looking for kind of like career podcasts and whatever. Came across this amazing one called Squiggly Careers and was like, huh, that's basically my entire ethos and so on. And genuinely for a while thought, oh, well, yeah, maybe there isn't something there.

41:26Jimmy:Now, obviously, we actually have quite different sort of approaches, formats, and so on. So there's definitely an interesting lesson there as well. But you have, over the kind of five years that we've known each other, you have really sort of built like you know quite a sustainable business now that's not just podcasting i don't think it's ever just been podcasting to be fair but yeah there's there's more there so just i guess talk us through the kind of like squiggly universe yeah yeah the

41:55Helen Tupper:squiggly universe um i think the probably the easiest way to talk about it is to to share our our flywheel so we use Jim Collins the kind of concept of a flywheel to think about how we scale squiggly how we how we keep growing squiggly so I guess at the heart of it is an ambition to make squiggly careers better for everybody so that's kind of like what and you start to kind of go what does that mean and how do we do that and but that that's at the heart of it um but on the flywheel there are four elements of our flywheel so the first is create useful career content like that's the very first bit and i i resource my team against these four elements by the way so i have people whose job it is to help get out what's in mine and sarah's head to create useful career content so whether that's the books whether that's the podcast whether that's writing for harvard business review like we try to create as much of that as possible so that's kind of the first part that then leads into to create sponsors and supporters of squiggly careers and they are distinct things and we manage this really carefully so supporters are there are squiggly career community yeah the people that sprint with us and the people that post pictures of themselves of lobsters they're like there are these there is a community they identify with squiggly careers they want squiggly to do well they put the squiggly emoji in their linkedin bio you know they see themselves as squiggly and we want loads of those people because it it it helps us get feedback it helps us to grow it makes it makes squiggly bigger it makes it a movement not just a company so that's our supporters and then we have our sponsors and our sponsors are people that take us into organizations or they they're people that say do you know what we our company needs to be more squiggly i've seen what you do i believe in what you do i want you to come and do it here and we do very very little if any direct outreach to companies all of it comes in because of the sponsors and we make it easy for them to sponsor so we've created the squiggly careers company toolkit because people were showing us the decks they've created with very funny squiggles and things that they've written and all going to be like oh that's probably not how we describe it but great and so we try to make it easy now we've got a toolkit so they can take it into their company and put it in whatever whatever decks that they want but we that that that leads to sponsors and supporters is something that we think very strategically about the next part of the flywheel is that by products and services so we look at well you know what what are we selling what are we selling to people what are our workshops what are our sessions what is our pricing like and there's definitely work for us to to do there um i think there's lots more stuff that we could put into that that area of our of our world and then the final bit is that leads to data insight and income and that then that feeds our ability to create more useful career content so obviously we we are a company that is revenue generating we do make profit that's an that's an important part of us we're called purpose and profit as a business um and we have targets around that but also all of that insight and data that we get so we you know the feedback from our sessions the insights from our sprint like we're pretty obsessed with feedback as you've probably got you've probably got another feedback loop in our business but all of that goes back into creating useful content and that might be oh so that's going to mean we're going to do that podcast or that's going to mean our next sprint is going to be on that or that's going to mean our next book is on learning because everything that we're talking to about companies keeps giving this problem and so we need to solve it with more useful content and i have people in my business aligned to every element of that flywheel and the harder i work on the content so the more content i put out the more advocacy we get it it just spins so we we just that's how we manage the business i think that and sort of

46:04Jimmy:taking the end point of the sprints and so on and then what to kind of create content around it's like your own sort of like google trends data yeah 100 100 and it all sounds

46:17Helen Tupper:i'm going to make it sound very boring and dull it's not like we're all sat there going like wherever we're at the flywheel like it's fun i love it i love the community i love the insights it's it's you know there is also there is also a bit of randomness in it where we'll just randomly i was talking to someone this week about someone in our here you go someone uh And we have lots of WhatsApp groups with these different communities. And Katie, who's in our community, sent me a picture because she's hacked her diary. She's turned her diary into a squiggly diary. And she's taken lots of our tools and prompts, printed them out and put them in her diary so she can fill them out each week.

46:56Helen Tupper:And I was talking to our team and I was like, we need to create a squiggly career development diary. So all these tools and models, people have got it, make it really easy because we have a saying like if it goes in the diary it's more likely to get done so if we create a squiggly career development diary it's it's all it's already in it's embedded in the diary um and you know that that's not on the flywheel at no point have i strategically gone we should do this but we might have a bit of fun we might create one for one year do a short print run put some digital ones out and we'll just see because we're small and we can do that and if it doesn't work we learn and if it does work we do it again so it is yes we think about the flywheel and we think about strategically but also like experimenting and having fun because it's fun yeah because it's fun because it might it feels right give it a go it's what actually one of the

47:46Jimmy:big things that we're discussing tomorrow a bit is how to have more fun like we had a very serious like 2025 like it was great in lots of ways but yeah some of the more sort of irrelevant fun stuff and so on is important right because it's it's partly why people come to work yeah right like it's a big sort of driver of it i think um i mean i often talk about it enough

48:11Helen Tupper:what go i was gonna say in the book there's a chapter on play so play is part of learning some really interesting things about the nhs and people's performance increasing when they introduce moments of play in the work day so i was just thinking of a quick one that you could steal um like the the i quite like the spotify playlists are fun as literally a fun way of playing so everyone in the team has to pick a track that um is either meaningful to them or they think represents them and they play the track you don't have to play all of it but you know you play like the first 30 seconds of the track um so you need like an owner of the playlist someone's going to play it and then they explain like why what the tracks has about there and why it's meaningful to them but it's fun and it's a good way of learning about each other um and so yeah i you could have a go at that as a fun you could add that in tomorrow very easy tomorrow i'd say what we've

49:02Jimmy:done a few times which is good and actually one of the things you'll quite like this probably as an idea is that we always bring in a couple of like external people as well yeah sort of tangentially and we've got somebody coming in tomorrow who's basically on some extended paternity leave and is just doing some kind of like job experimentation and so on which i'm really looking forward to sort of coming in and whatever because i think you're the same as well right it's like a cool company right and he just wants to kind of come in and just see what we're doing what we're about and i was like we'll come to one of these sort of strategy days it's always useful to get a bit of outside perspective as well and it stops us sort of talking too kind of like internally as it were but one of the things that we've used and we've done a couple of times now is bring in an item that means a lot yeah to you like what you would save in a fire and that's always really good but

49:48Helen Tupper:yeah i think we'll everyone loves music gives it gives a bit of energy like you're back to the fun it's like everyone's oh my gosh tina turner jimmy that's a strange choice like it's just fun

49:59Jimmy:yeah definitely how do you know um okay so that's um that's good and do you do you have sort of ambitions like you've done so well in kind of 10 years like what are your kind of ambitions for the next step like where would you really like to

50:22Helen Tupper:take all of it we want squiggly to be synonymous with careers globally so i want it just to be common language i'd quite like to go into dictionary squiggly careers but i want i want it to be common language i want people i just want it to be normalized um and i really want it to be credible, so I don't want it to just be a word I want it to be this practical, like people know what they need to do to create a squiggly career culture people know what they need to do to own their squiggly career and we Sarah and I start our PhD this year so part of us being, look at your face

51:01Jimmy:both of you?

51:04Helen Tupper:we're going back to where we met it's all very romantic really so we're going back to where we met at university and we're doing it we're doing it there because they've got an executive phd that we can do alongside growing our business but we're doing it on squiggly we're doing it on squiggly we're doing it on how do we solve this problem with progression that we see in companies what are the initiatives that make the biggest difference to how we manage progression in organizations whether it's the leadership the language the the talent matching to projects we are that's what we're going to do on so we're going to work with the companies that we already work with but we're going to do research programs and we will prove we will prove that squiggly progression is better for people and companies than just presenting promotions which is what

51:49Jimmy:we've relied on for a long time definitely i also think like job titles and promotions are sort of a bit of a dying thing anyway actually yeah like that i mean that's a whole another topic there's another bit in the book which is all about job crafting yeah and that really um struck a chord with me because for 10 years I've sort of crafted my job since basically being at the Institute of Directors before number 10 had very kind of like supportive bosses there who let me take on lots of extra things and it was just great and I just wondered if you could just talk a bit about job crafting and how to go about it yeah it's

52:28Helen Tupper:again we could do a whole episode on this but I'll sum it up so the idea of job crafting is evolving the role that you do so that you can both create the most value for you're doing it for and be at your best because very often when we apply for a job we've we're getting some like outline of like the perfect job and what you should do every day and the reality of that actually ends up being quite far away so our jobs our jobs kind of get crafted anyway by the company but job crafting is something we want the individual to be in control of but it's not how do i get to do more of what i want because that's quite hard for people to say yes to it's this how do i create more value while at the same time being at my best it's this kind of two things we've got to get right so that's that's what job crafting is loads of ways you can do it but i think one of the easiest ways to do it again i think it's quite a fun way i'm clearly biased about all things careers but go and look at some job descriptions of jobs that you are intrigued by.

53:33Helen Tupper:Now go on LinkedIn, go find five jobs, we'll call it job scanning, go find five jobs that you're like if I wasn't doing this then I might do that and this isn't because you're going to apply for those jobs this is because you are going to go through the job descriptions of those jobs and you are going to highlight specifically what it is in those jobs that you find appealing. Maybe it's partnering with people across the business maybe it's leading initiatives maybe it's having i don't know budget responsibility whatever it is you're going to highlight it you're going to do it for five jobs and then you're going to spot the similarities actually in you know four of those jobs i highlighted leading a team and four of those jobs are highlighted collaboration like whatever it is and those are the things that you want to think how do i get to do more of that in the job that i'm in right now because clearly that's things that i want to spend time doing so how can i design that into the job that I'm doing in a way that is valuable for who I'm doing it for and then the last point I would say on that that how valuable for the people I'm doing it for the best thing to do is think about how what you want to do can solve a problem or an opportunity that that person cares about that is that's how you kind of pull it otherwise it's push it's like well Jimmy I want to do some more collaboration you're like great Helen but actually we've got this problem with profit and so that's not that helpful whereas if I said I've really noticed that team over there their performance is really good I bet if we collaborate with them I can take some insights bring it into our team so we can work on that profit problem and then you're like yeah makes it makes sense Helen like give it a go so those kind of areas I think are really important you might job the job scanning activity is quite good because sometimes people don't know where to start and it's just quite a practical it's quite a practical place to start definitely and yeah

55:18Jimmy:working out what your boss doesn't want to do as well what your boss's problem is is no i like

55:23Helen Tupper:your framing what your boss doesn't want to do yeah that's a really good thing yeah it's like

55:27Jimmy:take that off like it's it's it's gonna help you um help you develop and be seen for everybody um

55:37how how has your hiring changed over the years

55:45Helen Tupper:so we i don't think anybody we've hired has done the job before that they're doing for us and so we hire people in and when we when they come into our business amazing if they come in as a contractor which is interesting because not everyone wants to start as a contractor you know that's more you know i don't i'm not sure i would have done when i was in corporate life it feels like a bit more of a risk so it potentially limits the pool of people but part of the reason that we do that is because it it helps us to understand whether the person's the right fit and i think in a small business that that just really matters like finding i mean it matters in any business but um it just it just feels really important that we find the right fit someone who is exemplifies our the behaviors you have these behaviors of kind of responsiveness care initiative and simplicity and i kind of want to know like does do you like these behaviors is this how you is this how you work at work so it helps us to find the right fit um and work out whether it's the best use of that person's strengths but also it helps us to work out the role so very often when we're when we're hiring people i've had this conversation today with someone who's coming to our team where i was basically like are you okay with the ambiguity of the next nine months because i'm not sure what the job is going to be like the aim is go from contractor to a permanent employee on the payroll full-time or part-time whatever that person wants but at the moment i cannot tell you what that job is going to be in nine months time because what we do with people is we have a number of projects we we work out what that individual is really good at we think about what the business needs and then we have this period that is very malleable so for example the individual i was talking about today is both working on research for our phd a really big purpose project that we've partnered with an organization on to create squiggly starters and she's also working on our in our client team on improving our proposal process that it's it's broad but the idea is that together we co-create a role that is both valuable for the business and the best use of that person's strengths and sometimes it doesn't work sometimes we go either the fit isn't right or the roles like we haven't there isn't a role right now and that's that has to be the end of it and we then help that person with wherever they want to go next with our network and knowledge will help that person or what has happened several times is we end up with a brilliant role our head of delivery did came in working as maternity cover for our team manager and then we saw her talents we saw our gaps evolve the role and now she is now she's our full-time head of delivery for amazing if but that role didn't exist because we kind of didn't know what it we didn't know what it was but we co-create roles well it's a

58:36Jimmy:bit like job crafting yes yeah very actively job crafting um so yeah that's um that is say it again and i can see sonny's getting annoyed because i said we wouldn't record for this log and we we are doing so i'm gonna i'm gonna throw that final one to you okay um well actually before i the final one about three words yeah how do you create a custom gpt and

59:06Helen Tupper:what have you used it for oh i used them all time i've created one this week i love it i love it so what's the one you've created this week the one i've created this week is about um how to introduce yourself it's based on a ted talk that i saw where the person had um five formulas for how you create a powerful introduction in fewer than 20 words um and there's like the breakthrough introduction there's the strengths introduction so i created a gpt for our squiggly careers community where it will ask you five questions and then it will use your answers to create your five your five like powerful ways to introduce yourself um and obviously you know anyone could do it it's an open open one um how do i do it i do it on chat gpt because that's my preferred platform of the present time I click the create button, do you know what I actually did this time is I used ChatGPT, I said I want to create one, write all the documents I need because you need to load them in for it to learn, I said write all the documents I need, this is the TED talk this is my podcast script that I've done on the TED talk this is what I want, write it so I can create it and then I literally clicked create, uploaded the documents had a bit of a practice, sent it to some other people got some feedback, improved it and that's it.

1:00:22Helen Tupper:I could create a better how-to but that's basically, it took me about 10 minutes

1:00:24Jimmy:You know that clip will do well on LinkedIn right? And finally three words to describe

1:00:30Helen Tupper:And remember you have to decide whether these are three words you want which you can decide later but here's my three words, three words describe Jimmy at Jimmy's best curious, you're super curious, you've always got a question and you've always got that look, you've got a curious look as well if we're not asking the question I can see the question forming um uh connected it's so connected like before we started we were just talking about people and you're like oh yeah you're so you're so good at building and connecting with people which i think is brilliant that's obviously now part of what enables a podcast and i would also say challenging a challenger that you don't you don't take something at face value you'll if you've got a different opinion you're not afraid to to have i think you do it in a i see it in a very agreeable way but i do hear the challenge i hear that you're like comfortable with challenge yeah no i think that's fair i think there's the three um things i mean the interesting you say

1:01:32Jimmy:curious at the beginning because i've always thought the mantra of stay humble stay hungry is very kind of important and then but i always had a third one to that which is stay curious as well so yeah i think i would i would take those and they're all literated as well shows you're such a uh such a wordsmith as well um oh brilliant oh well look i'm so amazed at everything you do it's brilliant i'm so glad we've got to do a few podcasts and we did a live show together as well i think what you're doing is brilliant and yeah it's so great to get you on and support and people really should get the book learn like a lobster because it's he's thank you

1:02:11Helen Tupper:so much

1:02:16You