Julius "Dr. J" Erving on ABA & NBA glory days, evolution of the dunk & athletes' role in civil rights era

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32:17I've always been jealous of your error. It's not necessarily I want to be over. You're jealous. No, but you're right. Right. What I mean, like, is when I watch the movies from your era, they're doing chinchillas on the Frank Lucas movies and Nicky Bonds on the cover of Time. You know, they're rats. But I'm just saying they were the biggest. What was it like at the time when you the biggest guy? Dr. J was the biggest guy on the earth at that time. bags. When they talk about all this, because, you know, we from New York, I don't know about him, but I'm assuming him, we from New York, we think Harlem's the flyest, right?

33:05And we think of all that. But that's about your time. I thought this show wasn't going to have no flags. What did I say? I don't know. Go ahead. What I'm trying to say is... What's the flag? That's the cutoff? No, no. That means foul on the play. I said something. I didn't agree with. He didn't agree with it, so he threw the flag. We usually got 100 of them flying. We've been real gentle with you, Mr. Dr. J. Mr. Irving. I show respect. My thing is, what was it like in that era? The flyness. We see you fly. You fly it in all of them. You got Will Chamberlain bragging, but he wasn't more swagged out than you.

33:46Yeah. And you was outside. How about your boy, Clyde? Clyde Fletcher, you know, he still wear the cowboy suit. Right? He got the cow. He's made out of cow. Clyde's still rocking the same suits. Yeah. The same suits? He might have got them tailored up, but I think it's the same, right? You can't even find some of that. He got some of the finest cow skins and materials that you ever see. Yo, Clyde, man. You know, I be trying to dress, right? But he was cool. He played the cool card. His management company used to represent me. So, yeah, it was... Your era, Dr. J. I'm trying to get you in this era.

34:29Okay. It's Harlem. It's New York City. You from New York. You the biggest in the world. You Dr. J. You slam dunking over everything. You coming to the rocker, shutting it down. You got all these guys that we watched these movies of in the middle of your era. What was that like, Dr. J.? Could you just describe to us What was Dr. G's life at that time? Was there a club in Harlem that was out of this world that you walked in at 12 midnight and was like, Dr. J, like, what was that life? I'm going to tell you the truth. So at a certain hour, you know, I would be in the after hours club. and I look around, I'm thinking, these people don't want to go home or they ain't got nowhere to go.

35:22Let me get the hell out of here. Because I got a home and I was, you know, living in my parents' house in the early 20s. I stayed in New York until I was 26. So birth to 26. And I wasn't trying to be hard. You know, my mom, she raised three kids and pretty much by herself. She did marry. I had a stepfather, but she bared the load. And I said, I ain't trying to do nothing to make it harder with her than it already is. I'm not saying being harder. So that was you there, Dr. J. Everybody was coming up to you. Yo, Dr. J, this is such and such. Yeah. Yo, Dr. J, this is such and such. They had to be doing that, right?

36:18Yeah. Yeah, so me, Reggie Jackson, Arthur Ashe. Oh. Miles Davis. Miles Davis. And Bill Cosby. Whoa. So 1974, we would meet frequently at Cosmos. Right. And a lot of the discussion was about time and place and what we doing. You know, Arthur was the best tennis player in the world. Yes. You know, I had my basketball thing going 74. Multiple time MVP in the ABA. Miles was making music. and Miles would bring some music and he'd play it. There was a thing called Divided Soul. We listened to it. We couldn't understand nothing. Two weeks later, it was running up the charts. The biggest song in the world, huh?

37:18Running up the charts. We saw some of those. Yeah, yeah, because you don't know. I mean, it's raw. I had that with Grover Washington Jr., you know, in Philly. he'd write something I'd hear it oh that's alright next thing I know you know that's the Huff what was that Gamblin' Huff Gamblin' Huff yeah Philly was the yeah they made great music Cosby Cosby got all jammed up and it was very very unfortunate because you know he was he was a good mentor in my life because he was older than us and he hosted us in his house. And this is 74. So we in our 20s, Reggie's a little older. Me and Arthur about the same age.

38:08And Miles is a little older too. So we had our crew. You know, that's a good crew to have. Wow, yeah. You ain't got no... That's a Mount Rushmore of crews. You ain't got to go to no club. You can't beat no Arthur Ashe, no Reggie Jackson, Mr. October. Bill Cosby, Jell-O, Pudding Pops. This man was Fat Albert. He had Fat Albert. Yeah. So that helped me because I had friends like that. And now, you know, Reggie and I are still friends. He got an event going on in Vegas beginning of the next month. So he just sent me a note. All right, you gonna be here? Hell yeah, I will be here. You know, you know you're gonna tie me you you're you're a link to my past and it was a great time so you were a link to my past when when I was on the top of the world you know and being talked about in that conversation who's the best basketball player in the world that's when that conversation was going to be honest with you Dr.

39:17J you're still on top of the world you're still on top of the world When they see you, there ain't nobody. I know you might think it was a long, no. He lights up every roomy steps. Yeah, you walk in there, you swagged out to this day. That's why I asked you about your wife. You always look beautiful. You coming through, you floating. They know what time it is on another level. And basketball players, more than anything, they got to study the tape. They have to study the tape. basketball players you know I always tell a story I say Floyd Mayweather who's undefeated and everybody called the greatest boxer one of them of all time I seen a fight where he was getting beat up for six rounds and then he switched up the whole style and he beat the guy and at the end he was like Jack Dempsey Jack Dempsey I watched the videotape when he did this and that and the point is it's the same story Kiss but it's relative to what we're talking about.

40:23They got to watch the videotape. Yeah. You know, and... It was another... That's a wonderful gift. You know, having a video to watch. You know, now, I think some of the stuff that people watch maybe doesn't necessarily help them. You know, maybe it motivates them to just get out there, but, you know, every pissed video that's out there ain't good. No. Say it again. Most are bad. The majority probably is. That was more damaged than good. I'm addicted to social media. If I have a second, I watch my Instagram and this and this and that. But I'm kind of getting pissed off at all this negativity and everybody fighting each other.

41:14It's just like every day you wake up to see who's fighting who, who's this, who's that. And it's kind of like played out. What you think, Kiss? What the world means love. Love, sweet love. It's the only thing that there's just too little of. Good answer. Good answer. Good answer. Today's state of the game. How do you feel about it? without, you know, a lot of people can't take conversation. Then they misconstrue it or they get emotionally drained or things of that nature when you just ask something like that. That's why we like to stay away from the questions that turn into religious arguments or political debates.

42:09But just the state of the game, where is that today? from, you know, how you played it and saved it and, you know, how you feel about it. So I'm going to jump over into the racial aspect of it. You know, see, when I was coming up, black athletes got interviewed. You know, sometimes they'd get played. Somebody would ask stupid stuff. They'd give a stupid answer. And then suddenly, see, that's why we shouldn't interview the black guys. because they're representing or whatever. So I was always kind of guarded with my dialogue and delivery and, you know, try to say things the right way or whatever because I grew up, you know, seeing some bad interviews.

42:59I mean, for some terrible interviews, especially with boxers and shitball players, you know, guys, you know, I was like, nah, nah, come on, man. We could do better than that because we are better than that. And that became a reflection on the race. And unfortunately, or fortunately, you know, ABA was a breakthrough in terms of majority of players in the league were black. Wasn't that we're in the NFL? Wasn't that we're Major League Baseball? Baseball was probably second, you know, with maybe 40%. But the NBA was like in the 20s. you know 20s and and so that's where the most work needed to be done and then there were breakthroughs you know certain people coming up and and handling it you know black commentators so they weren't going to play the game you know they tried to help the athlete who they were who they were talking to and so so there's a there's a track record that you can follow and you could see basketball opened the stores 1947.

44:14So 47, 57, 67, 77, 87, 97. You know, Blacks became the dominant race in the league. So you got a lot of good interviews. And now comes the international player. You know, the international player has to work his way in because there's certain people you know, they didn't want to get on the microphone because they didn't really own the language. The female golfers that came from China, Japan, whatever. No. You got to learn English if you're going to play over here. You're going to make this money and take this money back? You got to learn the language. They do that to the Latino boxers too. They actually analyze that you make less money if you don't talk English.

45:06Yeah. You got to learn English. That's what he's saying. Yeah. So there were real times in which this got recognized. And then suddenly, you know, people made the adjustments that were necessary to max it out, you know, to max, make maximum money. Well, I need to, I need to get my stuff together. And part of it is what kind of upbringing you have and what the influences, influences are on you school-wise. You know, I just hated to hear somebody being called a dumb jock. Because that was my space. You know, they called us jocks. And a dumb jock, that was almost worse than being called the N-word.

45:53It was derogatory. Very. We had a bad, right? And so, you know, I'm going YouTube to watch Puerto Ricans in 1970. Man, I don't even know. This is like, you know, when they say your ancestors dreamed. I can't think of you talking like that. Like the way they was talking in 1970. The broken English. They didn't know nothing. They was like English. They didn't know nothing. Maybe if they were smart, they sounded dumb as hell. Yeah. Black people, too, in the South Bronx. I watched them in the 70s, and I'd be like, and now we got so many articulate, smart, intelligent, billionaires, all kind of business owners and all that, where I'm just like, damn, we came a long, long way, because when you watch that footage of the Bronx in the 70s, you're just like, damn, how did we even get here?

46:49Yeah. You know, so you were here. It was a miracle. Dr. J, you've been around a long time. You hear hip-hop. Where do you hear it for the first time? And did you know when you heard it around that time, did you know, oh, this thing is going to go? No, I had no idea that it was going to go to where it went. I mean, I was a rhythm of blues guy and a jazz guy. and when I heard hip-hop, I mean, I, you know, I had a cautious ear because it was all around, came from uptown, and, you know, the characters associated with hip-hop, you know, I got a kick out of, you know, I was like, okay, I ain't trying to be them, and then they're not trying to be me.

47:42so they got their own genre and how far will it go and it went to the moon it went to the moon man and there was no turning back because I think the overall acceptance of hip hop in the beginning was to be determined by the people who were the best at doing it. And they not only grabbed the stage, they didn't let it go. You know? And, you know, I mean, someone could look like Snoop, you know, for one thing. I mean, he's crossed over into a dozen different things. He's the host of the Olympics now. And now, yeah. But he's been doing it. He's been doing golf tournaments. He does so much variation of the theme, but he's still genuine.

48:48Because when he's talking, you know where he comes from, where he comes from. And he'll be quick to tell you. So, yeah. What did I feel about it? I mean, you know, my generation was, you know, the rhythm and blues piece. And even in my house, you know, music my mom would play or whatever. It was just, you know, straight up love songs. It'd be a little mix of rock and roll in there. You know, like the rock and roll. You want to know what's crazy. You know, it's ill that he say the music that he grew up and listened to. His son was my man. Yeah, Jay Irvin. Yeah. I know the brother. You know what's crazy is, I don't know if you've seen recently, homeboy Gene Simmons said that hip-hop shouldn't be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

49:48This is the new talk. This is real. You can't deny that. I mean, you can't deny hip-hop from coming in, you know, being in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is going to recognize the sales, you know and the impact. Yeah. Overall impact. Yeah my thing is didn't we create rock and roll? Like originally Chuck Berry black people created rock and roll. I don't got the facts. No I got the facts. It might have been like that slam dunk question. They didn't invent it but they perfected it. affected. Oh, thanks. You know, Little Richard said, took it to another level. I saw an interview one time, Little Richard named every superstar rock person.

50:42It was like, yo, he played in my band. I taught him how to do this. I taught her how to do this. I taught, like he dead ass was pointing out all the rock and roll legends talking about it. He taught him everything. Great balls are fine. Okay, buddy, where's my flag at?

51:04He got one. Great balls. Where can we see the new ABA? I know it's on Prime. I already see it. Yeah, Amazon Prime. I watched it last night. Okay. You know, I had the guy come in, jerry-rigged my TV, and then I got an Amazon Prime account because I had an Amazon account, my business name. And they were like, oh, no, this one's under another one. So I was under Amazon.com and then the Amazon Prime, whatever, it's the first month free. Then it's$14 a month. So I got roped into it because I said, I want to watch this last night before I come out today and this weekend. And they got us hooked up to me and my wife, Darice.

51:58and we watched it from 8 to midnight because it was four episodes and each episode is like an hour and I will see it again I probably will see it again with friends or family or whatever we're going to do a big birthday celebration next week so I'm going to get that on in the background as a backdrop you know that should be good so you guys need to check it out last night I thought I saw it But I'm realizing I watched the old documentary. Oh. So I watched the documentary on you. Oh, you watched the doctor. Yeah, yeah. That is called The Doctor. I thought I was watching it when he came. I told Lori he was there.

52:38She was like, yeah, you know what comes out tonight? I said, yeah, I watched it last night. She was like, no. That wasn't it. You must have watched the old joint. No, the ABA is more than just me in it. There's a lot of people, Spencer Haywood and Rick Barry. and the people who were a part of the nine-year history of the ABA. So it started in 1967. Then we go back to that time, and that craziness was going on in the country. You know what's nuts? I think it's in that documentary where it was segregated. Then they let black and white people play together. and they were showing the fans reaction they had white people and they was like yeah I love this guy and I love that and they showed how sports gelled everybody together at such a horrible time well see you know I'm from Long Island right so we had a team at the Salvation Army and me and a guy named Archie Rogers the two of us and we had 10 guys who were not black who were white.

53:53Those were our teammates. So we were a close-knit group in the suburb, right, over in Hempstead. And sometimes we would go to games that were arranged for our team and the other coach didn't want his players to play against us. So this is 61, 62. And they were like, well, we play y 'all, but they can't play. So our guy, Don Ryan, who's still there in Hempstead, in the community, and he's an angel sent from heaven. He said, let's go, guys. He took the whole team, left the building. He took the white boys too. Left the building. We had our team, we just leave the building. And that would have happened two or three times a year during our seasons when I was a member there.

54:49and I remember it and I embrace it, you know, because that was so important for what he did. You think Muhammad Ali, Jim Brown, you know, all these athletes, the forefront of the civil rights. To me, when I look at those times, I just think of the courage, like the courage you had to have. People are scared to talk right now, Kiss. people are literally afraid this is the only time the president of the United States will clap back on Instagram at you the president of the United States be like yo fat Joe let me holler at you and tell you this people are terrified to speak up now and at that time you know it pretty much was hard to be you know cause you risking your career you risking all that so when you were seeing guys like Muhammad Ali talking about I ain't going to the war nor like that.

55:48What you thought at that time? Okay. So I was a little young for the heart of the movement. But I was well aware of the different players. The Martin Luther Kings, Muhammad Ali, Jim Brown, Long Island guy, Bill Russell. He was already in basketball and, you know, he was the ultimate champion in basketball. So kind of watching from the sideline, but, you know, not being ignorant about what was going on because, you know, it was life or death. And, you know, like I said, I had friends who went to war. I had friends who followed Malcolm X. I happened to follow Dr. King. So I was trying to, you know, be spiritual, you know, let religion be different than what was being said by the Muslim movement.

56:55And so, so being in that and, you know, what you had to, you had to believe in something. You had to take a stand in some capacity. So I followed Dr. King. It's beautiful. I followed Dr. King too. You know, it's crazy because I think of a scene out of the movie Malcolm X, right? And they walking through Harlem and you see Reverend Al on a box preaching. Then you see the Muslims saying, you'll see the 5 % saying, you'll see the Jehovah Witness. Everybody was preaching in one corner. Take a side. Yeah, he said you've got to be about something. He chose. You don't stand for something? Fall for anything.

57:42Fall for anything. I always say Dr. Martin Luther King is the greatest American ever lived. And gave his life for it. His courage was incredible. He chose love over hate. He chose peace. You know, and bringing the people together. Yeah. And he was authentic, too. I mean, you know, he just dedicated his whole life to that, and people don't do that anymore. They dedicate it for a while, and then somebody blowing their ear. Next thing you know, they're over there doing something they ain't supposed to be doing. You got fake activists that get paid off to stop acting. They no more, and they're gone, huh?

58:24Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Switch their whole belief. Once they catch that little check and check it out, And so I'll be like, huh? And they'll be like, yeah. And then all of a sudden, you know, they took the check. You know? Yeah, we're constantly looking for a new hero. You know? A new difference maker. You know, somebody. We're constantly. And some people get pushed to that position. But, yeah, I think you have to be born into it. You know? It's not something you learn. It's not something you learn in school. something God puts in you. Yeah. That says, hey, man, you got me. Don't have no fear.

59:06Go represent your people. And so that's important. This ain't that. That ain't this. It's cracking kiss. Make sure y 'all check the documentary out on Amazon Prime. Make sure. Dr. J, the living legend of I. Thank you. Come knowledge yourself. Make some noise for the doctor. All right, y 'all. All right.

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