Adele vs Shakespeare: Who Actually Changed the World More?

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0:46Joe Marler:Let's bring them out. Please welcome Adele and William Shakespeare. Whoa! For the audio listener, we've got some wigs doing some heavy lifting. How does that feel over there? What do you mean? How does it feel? Let me give you a little insight into how it's felt for me. Who's that over there? What does he do? Why is he here? Why is his ankles weird? Why is his nose weird? Why is his eyes weird? Why is his ears weird? Why is his arms weird? Why is his whole body weird? And that was just the Pete Wicks episode. Quite simply. You're in the Cuck chair, mate. How does it feel? Feels all right, actually.

1:22Joe Marler:Yeah. Do you know where Cuck comes from? Yeah, it's a town near Hayward's Heath. No, cuck comes from the word cuckold, which is a Shakespearean word. He came up with it to mean someone who... Corn, corn, corn. To mean someone who... Corn, you haven't got your laptop now, have you? It's weird. Not so easy over there, is it? So much easier than a laptop in the corner. In the 1940s. Check out the desk of the pens and paper. Check that one out. Ooh, let me just check that. Did you know it's a cuckold? There's a chainspill. It means to a man who sort of knows and is aware of his wife sleeping with someone else.

2:04Joe Marler:How does it feel to be sat over there? Are you getting an insight into how it is for me? It's quite cooling and freeing. And plus, I've got access to water. So I don't know what you moan about all the time. I have to say, sat over here, it's quite intense. You are sat just facing. All the lights are on. It's all happening. I mean, over there actually seems quite peaceful. Do you think this is how we should do the show moving forward? Sadly, mate, that face of yours is the moneymaker. So I think, sadly, no, we can't. You've got to be front and centre. We've addressed our positions in the room. Yeah.

2:34Are we going to address why we're starting our episode like this? And are we going to stay here or do you want me to come join you? I think you should come over. What, immediately? Yeah, shouldn't you? I quite like it.

2:47Joe Marler:Please come over. I feel a bit exposed and lonely.

2:55Joe Marler:Oh, this is better, isn't it? Yeah, well, you're used to this, aren't you? This is the doctor's office. Shall we explain what we're doing? Running out of guests. If you're honest with you, you can't get... Shall we lie about what we're doing? You can't get... I think we can be honest and say, look, we've had Prince Harry, we've had Joe Lycett, we've had Ross Kemp. If you can name another famous person, great, we'll have him on. But I think we're actually at a point where we can't. So we're going to hang out with you and me, occasionally, perhaps. Yeah, we're going to nominate a person each that we feel are the greatest mind or worthy of being called one of the greatest minds this world has ever seen.

3:37You know, I've done a... Okay, we've done a decent job of exploring patience in the chair, but the times where people are too famous...

3:47Joe Marler:Yeah, they're busy. Too busy or too dead. Lots of very clever people are dead. Loads of them. Like loads of people dead. And we can't get them into the office to analyse them because... Well, you can. It's not right though, is it? No, subjective that is. It's not advised, I wouldn't say. No, there's a lot of red tape to go through before you get that in. I think it's exciting. Speaking of great minds, no guest, no job for Janet today. Yeah, well, she did have a few days left of time in lieu. Oh, right. Time in lieu. What's she doing with her time in lieu? You strike me as a man who's just learnt the phrase time in lieu.

4:29Joe Marler:So today, I think we agreed that we wanted to focus on the greatest cultural mind in history. I'm going to bring to the table someone who I think has shaped the way we talk, shaped the way we consume storytelling. It is William Shakespeare. Quick intake question there for William Shakespeare. He can't be here because he's massively dead. Name William Shakespeare. Age, 52. No, he's not. 52, well no, he's now 462. Okay, so be accurate. Getting on with it. 52, young, till he died. Not back then, average age was 23. So it's interesting you say that. That is because of the infant mortality, which is obviously very sad, but if he made it, so that brought the average down, but if he made it through infancy, I think actually you would live to sort of like 60s, 70s.

5:23Joe Marler:So I think he did die sort of young even for his time. Oh, good knowledge that. That means I've got 20 years left. It's horrible. 39 plays written. It's a lot of plays and he's 52 when he's gone. Is it a lot of plays? For me to hit that I would need to be averaging like, I'd need to be going two a year. Why do you have to write the plays? I don't know, do you ever just sort of like read about these famous people and then start relating them to your own life? I guess maybe because you've been successful in the thing you wanted to be and so you've got nothing to compare yourself to. I don't know, maybe I compare myself to other people because I just think, wow you did all that in that specific field, but I suppose in the field, on the field, you did it all.

6:09Having known you for quite some time now, never in a million years did I think you would be comparing your life to Shakespeare at any point. Right, okay.

6:19Joe Marler:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I suppose so. Do you want to take a step back from that and just watch yourself compare yourself to Shakespeare now? Yeah, it's stupid, isn't it? I don't even want to be a playwright. Don't like the theatre. Star sign, Taurus. Sonnets written, 154. No. Favourite drink, ale or mead. Or mead. But probably drank a lot of the ale because the water wasn't safe enough. Did you know that? what but surely you need water to make ale that's what's always confused me oh but the the yeast i think the yeast or the alcohol kills the the enzymes the bacteria and with then because they boil it it kills all the bugs so there we go that's sorted right so those are his key stats good yeah strong strong start strong offering mine is of course I heard that you settled down That you found a girl And you're married now Stop, legally, can't do any more Name, Adele Adele Full name, Adele Laurie Blue Adkins I'm excited for this Do you know what one of my son's middle names is?

7:37Adele? No, it's blue.

7:42Joe Marler:Really? Yeah. Oh, because after Adele's middle name. Who have you ever come across that has given their child middle name after someone else's famous middle name? I'll be honest with you, I've not met anyone like you. So I would say if there's a first to everything, it's probably coming from that direction. Fair enough. Yeah, appreciate it. Age. Yes. How old is Adele now? I'm gonna put her at 35 years old. I'm 38. 38? Adele's older than you. She did 30? Yeah. What do you mean Adele's older than me? I just didn't expect it. We're here again, are we? I didn't expect it. Star sign. Taurus. Same as Shakespeare.

8:26Joe Marler:Oh, that's interesting. Okay. Maybe if you're a Taurus, you've got sort of a more of an aptitude for being a wordsmith. or they were both immediately inclined to take their work on tour to share with us. Wow, that actually is quite good I think. Are we clapping that or? Tentative clap, it's a tentative clap. For the audio listener, the producers clap but raise their shoulders to go, I don't know if we should but we have. I think that's very clever. That's very clever. Number of albums? Four. 19, 21, 25, 30. We're waiting for the big 4-0. Biggest fear? Adele's? You'd never get it. Honestly, you'll never get it in a million years.

9:17Joe Marler:Does she fear, I guess fear, not like having another breakup so she can't write another album? No, it's very good. No, she gets stage fright. She doesn't like performing. No way. Mental. In her line of work. Favourite swear word? Adele's? Fuck. Fuck. It's got to be, innit? Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Yeah. Allegedly, she once said the fuck word 56 times in one performance. Wow. Yeah. It was 2017 at Wembley. 56 times. I heard... Fuck! You settled down, now you're fucked. Do you know what I mean? I said fire to the fuck!

10:08So, mister, we're quite excited about this,

10:12Joe Marler:because we've gone away and we've both come up with a few arguments, a few reasons why we think our person is the greatest cultural mind ever. Is it Adele? Or is it Shakespeare? What you got? If you'd like to serve, I would like to receive. She is one of the most successful artists of all time. Okay, check this out. Her second album, 21, is the most sold female album ever. Over 55 million copies. Million. Million? Million. That's million? It's in the millions? So that's impressive. Like, she's made her mark, hasn't she? She's left her imprint on the world. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I guarantee there isn't a single person in the world...

11:00Joe Marler:That guarantee's sort of waning quite quickly. Yeah, waning. Tell me what the guarantee was going to be. Okay, I can almost guarantee to you that the majority of the world... Do you know what an almost guarantee is so worthless? It's almost under warranty. Yeah. What was your almost guarantee? You can almost guarantee that most of the world has heard a Nadelle song. What I'd have loved is just a few more definitives, which would have been, I can guarantee that every person in the world has heard a Nadelle song. But what we've got is... But I couldn't do that. I know you couldn't. I know you couldn't.

11:37Joe Marler:What we've been able to offer is you can almost guarantee that most people in the world have heard a Nadelle song. Yeah. Still very good. Yes, I would agree. The impact is pretty undeniable. Yeah. It's undeniable. What's your... What's your... En garde. To my... So I see your cultural impact. Oh, you're going with the cards reference. And I raise you the fact that Shakespeare has come up with loads of words. I just think it's quite mad that so much of our language is just stuff he came up with. Just stuff he came up with. Now. He didn't come up with that. He used it a lot though. He didn't come up with that?

12:21Joe Marler:No. That was already going. I've always got the impression he's taken credit for that then. Give me... I'll give you some gossip. What did it mean back then? It meant what it means now, but there wasn't a word for it. You'd have to say, talking about people behind their back or something like that. How mad's that? Gossip. Gossip. Lonely. Bedroom. The phrase breaking the ice. Barefaced. He came up with puking, the phrase heart of gold. Cuckold, which we get cuck from. Swagger. I mean, it's just incredible, isn't it? You sound way too... modern. That's what I mean. Like, a modern language is shaped by this bloody guy.

13:03Joe Marler:OK, what's your favourite word? Favourite word? It changes a lot, I guess. I recently... What's your favourite current word? Currently, I quite enjoy saying the word diaphragmatic. Meaning? to breathe from your diaphragm, to engage your diaphragm. Yeah. It's like the way it sounds. Go on. Diaphragmatic. I also quite like words that end in that sound sludge, trudge. I find that quite nice to sort of say trudge and sludge. Three, then fudge. Fudge. Budge. Budge, quite a lot. Nudge. Yeah, favourite word? Mine. Yeah, yours. Yeah, yeah. No, mine.

13:41Joe Marler:That's where you get a round of applause. That's very clever. That's clever. That's fucking great. Patronising so. No, fuck you, that's good. No, no, fuck you first. Fuck you first. What?

13:56Joe Marler:We've discussed why Adele is such a cultural icon because of the impact she's made in the sales. I've talked about Shakespeare's words. What else you got for Adele? She was a child star. Yeah, true. A prodigy, so to speak. When she was 16, she wrote her first song.

14:17Hometown Glory.

14:20Joe Marler:Hometown Glory. Does doing something early in life mean that you're necessarily better? I mean, I guess you've got more time to then look back at it. And really take it in. Yeah, I suppose so. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Not really. if you do it early you're like oh I've experienced that you can move on to the next thing rather than chasing something for a long time like take a mortgage for example if you could buy a house and pay it off by the time you're 11 you then you haven't got to worry about that for like 45 years of paying off do you know what I mean you're like oh I've got to take a big loan out if you could do it at 11 that's done in dustage you've got a gaff then you're like right You haven't got that to worry about.

15:08So yeah, in that example, you do want to do things early in your life. Yeah, imagine being an 11-year-old mortgage-free. That'd be incredible. Right, that was my idea. What have you got for Shakespeare, Jakey boy? I would say I think it's incredible

15:27Joe Marler:that 400 years later, we're still talking about the guy. And that, for me, is a big sign of being a great mind, I think, the longevity of it. the longevity of his work, his work existing and living forever. Much like yours will. People will look back at the documentaries of Joe Marler's greatest scrums. Scrums? Keep it to Shakespeare. And they'll look back at that. And we do the same with Shakespeare. We look back and we think, wow, he's done all that stuff. So he started when he was 25, kept going until he was 52. 1.6, I think that's 1.6, six plays a year consistently, and we're still talking about them today.

16:09Joe Marler:And the amount of stuff as well that you don't realise is inspired by Shakespeare. West Side Story, Romeo and Juliet. The Lion King, inspired by Hamlet. Okay, so Shakespeare went there. He was like, oh, right, I'm going to get a big daddy lion. Yeah, a king. And he's going to fall off a cliff. Killed. And then his son's going to take over. Prince of Denmark. The dastardly uncle who turned out in the prequel. they weren't actually blood brothers. Forget the prequel, I mean that was not, it was never the prequel. Then he banishes him by lying to him so he fucks off and meets a tiny little meerkat and a warthog.

16:50Do you think we look like Timon and Pumbaa? Definitely.

16:53Joe Marler:Who's who though? I think we know, don't we? Say it out loud. I think I would be Timon, you would be Pumbaa. When I was a young warthog When he was a young white hog! Can we apply? For what? The Lion King. Can't we go and audition together? Yeah, we... Oh my God! Yeah. Do you think they'd have us? Yeah, no. But the audition would be fun. Wouldn't it? Jeez Louise, that would be incredible, yeah. Alright, put that on the list of things to do. So you think that was inspired by... Yeah, it does sort of... What you've described there is the plot of Hamlet. Do you think that that's him leaving a legacy because it was so good, or is it a sign of our inability to develop something more creative and better?

17:46Why are we still... We don't use his words.

17:48Joe Marler:We use some of his words. Quite a lot of them. I mean, I listed quite a few words there that we were going to list. No, we can go through them again. No, we don't need this. We don't use gossip, lonely, bedroom, bare-faced, puking, heart of gold, swagger. No, we use some of them, but not the ones from his plays and that lot. Those are all from his plays. Yeah, but like the proper ones that he uses all the time, like, oh, wherefore art thou? Doesn't even make sense grammatically. Do you know what I mean? Where are you two? Where are you two? Yeah, do you know what? I actually have to slightly agree with you there.

18:23Joe Marler:Why has there not been another one? You've just got to write loads of plays. Someone should be doing that. In every other field, we've had someone who's superseded the last great titan of that field we had we had um isaac newton then we had stephen hawking in in music we had um we had we had shirley bassy then we had a doubt in name of name a field someone name a field cooking thank you cooking how sweetly you said it as well we had fanny craddock then we had nigella lawson do another one boxing we had we had Mike one of the early boxes and then we've got one of the later boxes right but there's always been someone who's superseded whereas Shakespeare it's like right Charles Dickens had a crack at it he had a good crack a decent crack decent crack probably like more great crack on Dickens but but still Shakespeare's like no it's all he's a bit and I do think why why haven't we had someone who's as good so yeah I agree with you on that

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20:12Joe Marler:Listen to the free audiobook now. Joe, final statement on Adele, please. Okay, I love that you've just talked about all the stories that Shakespeare has told. and have stood the test of time. And this is a little bit similar. Adele is also one of the greatest storytellers, albeit most of them have been based around heartbreak. Totally. But there's that clip of James Corden presenting the Brits. Oh, yeah. I think it was, and he goes, if you've ever felt a broken heart or ever been Judas by someone, you're about to relive it now. and it's the wonderful Adele and then it goes to Adele on the stage and she starts singing Someone Like You.

20:58And it was like, oh wow, this is incredible. And I just think she's able to connect to so many people that have experienced heartache and breakups in their life. But the irony is, although I'm championing her for doing that and connecting, I've never experienced a breakup or anything to actually relate to that. And yet I am madly obsessed with all of her songs.

21:30Joe Marler:So what is it that you're relating to then? Because you feel a deep connection to her songs. Completely. Because I think I was going through some of my lowest points in my life when she was at her highest of popularity with her songs around. and someone like you and hello, like all of it, I would put it on in the car and I'd just be crying my eyes out. But it wasn't connected. That was like background noise that I could hear, but it wasn't connected to what I was feeling. Do you know what I mean? What I'm trying to say, that it always brings up memories of those periods in my life that then got me through without actually experiencing the specific or heartache that she was bringing up.