Anna Williamson: Panic Attacks, Gossip & Chodes

21:04To find out more about Ancient and Brave, visit ancientandbrave.earth forward slash planet and use the code Joe, J-O-E, for 20 % off your purchase.

21:21Anna, you are like the unofficial therapist of the nation. That's how I view you. People come to you with their problems all the time.

21:31Anna Williamson:They do, actually. But what I'm curious about is when you're the one struggling, who's your go-to like what what do you do like do you go and see a therapist or do you have techniques that you do or is it like barbers where you just cut your own hair you know great question in the world of therapy and in coaching i have uh supervision so everyone that is regulated or um insured as i am i have every month i have supervision uh psychotherapy supervision and I have a coaching supervision. Oh my lord. I did the same thing. I did the exact same thing and it's never happened before. I've heard that word a million times.

22:15I thought you had some sort of weird power and you had supervision. I have supervision. Yeah, honestly.

22:23Anna Williamson:Did anyone else hear that? You do think that as well. I was going to say, I just looked around because this is such a normal word in my world, right? Everyone in my world has supervision. We heard the word supervision. It's just the word supervision. Supervision. Did I just announce you? Super. You all? So what I've got is supervision. I was like, all right, show off. I was just saying, I was thinking, okay, it's not that crazy. Everyone behind cameras is like, what's that? So supervision. Is that better? Supervision. I know what you mean. You went hard on the super. Super. I was supervision. Supervision.

22:58Anna Williamson:So supervision. So I basically take everything that I have collected from my clients and my own life, and then I go and dump it onto someone else. And that's their job. Oh, wow. To catch me, basically, for me to be, yeah, completely honest and authentic. Who catches them? They have someone above them. Oh, my God. This cycle never stops. So it's all confidential, apart from the endless cycle of supervisors that get to hear about your problems as well. Yeah, exactly. me um so yeah so i so from a professional standpoint i have supervision which is really important because um sometimes you have tricky caseloads or um also you have real life and so some days weeks my real life might be impacting my um ability to practice um properly um so that's for me to then discuss with my supervisors and to share anything and also to soundboard them and if i have a particularly tricky client or something's happening and i might want to ask their advice on how they would tackle something or and some it's really important because sometimes as well it's important in my line of work to know when not to um work with someone um if that therapeutic alliance is just not there you're not gelling a lot of people in the therapy world as you will know obviously as indeed as uh as a professional i'm obviously asking these questions on behalf of jake and our audience of course so for my own knowledge Well, exactly.

24:26Anna Williamson:We are just peer to peer at this point. But not everybody will gel. And I think a lot of people find me from my work on the telly or broadcasting or whatever I do. They say, oh, I've never got on with therapy. I've tried it. It hasn't worked for me. And often it's just they haven't gelled with the therapist or the coach. And that's because there's so many different forms of therapy. Everyone's different. You've got to get on with the person that essentially you are being the most vulnerable and the most raw about what's going on in your life. and if that person just has a different communication style or different approach to life as you you might not get on with them i've not got on with some therapists um there are some brilliant ones out there there are some grand ones out there that is um i can really like relate to that because that's currently where i'm at in my life outside of being a pseudo-psychiatrist um go on where i'd been doing therapy and with a therapist who was nice enough and got on really well but not to the point of oh this isn't working it sort of put me off going back did it and then i just stopped right and it's been so long now yeah i've hit a point in my life where i do need to go back and explore some more therapy options i'm conscious of oh i need to find someone that actually i like and i was worried as like do you do you need to find someone you like as a therapist or is the point of it you're going to do therapy it doesn't matter whether you like them or not these are the questions I have in my head and then why you've just said it out loud of course you do you need to be able to well I think I think connect with them connect is probably a better word to use than like because a therapist is there for many different reasons they're there to be a mirror they're there that I say it's particularly with celebs go dating actually and and when I do those shows I say I'm not here to be your friend um At the end of the day, say you're my celebrity.

26:19Anna Williamson:I'm not here to be your mate at the end of this. Sure, we hopefully will get on. And that's my aim is that we have rapport. Rapport is so important as any therapist. And that's what you're talking about, Jo, is what we call therapeutic alliance. Rapport is the same thing. And I will always work the hardest. And I believe every therapist and coach should. If you haven't got rapport and you haven't got therapeutic alliance, it's going to be very difficult to fully engage with that client and for them to want to engage with you to fully open up. And that's where I get a lot of my best work. Did you hear Anna's comment when she said at the start about the celebs go dating bitch?

26:53I'm not here to be your friend. I'm here to do a job. And you can understand why I said that when we first started working together now. Yeah. So we're all clear on... And do you think we're doing either of those things, being friends or doing a job? Sometimes I don't know if either of those boxes are being ticked. Now, given you're the first actual therapist we've had in the office, I would like to know where that interest in other humans started. Have you always had that interest in humans, even from a kid?

27:26Anna Williamson:I have, actually, if I'm honest with you. I've always been very curious about people. I've always been very open-minded. And I do think a lot of it comes from my upbringing and the way I've been parented. My brothers are the same in the sense that my parents are very fair, very balanced people. They are parents that I never saw get involved in conflict, never heard them sort of bitch and moan or, you know, be in and out of problems with people. Just quite, not to say they were walkovers, absolutely not, but they were always, there's another side to something. You know, have your opinion and have your values.

28:11Anna Williamson:And I was raised with, you know, a pretty strict upbringing, if I'm honest with you, but also a very kind outlook. And I believe that really comes from my parents to always be humble, always have good manners, always be grateful. And that is really how I was brought up. And then I found myself in my early 20s in a really bad relationship, which was a psychologically abusive relationship, which I didn't know at the time, but went on to discover having had a really bad breakdown because of it. And it was as a result of that that I went and had therapy and I'd never had that. I didn't know what therapy was.

28:51Anna Williamson:No one did therapy, Joe. So that was in like 2006, 2007. ended up having therapy because I was very mentally unwell um and that is where I suddenly thought gosh wow this is amazing why don't people talk about mental health what was it that you went I want to go help other people was it because how hard it had been for yourself and then the help that your therapist had given you like well I'd quite like to do that for other people basically yeah actually so filling in a little bit more context around that because I had been a kids TV percentage for about 10 years. This was pre-social media. We still had the mailbags, you know, that used to come in for TV studios.

29:34Send in your questions to P.O. Box 95.

29:37Anna Williamson:This is it. Or call or whatever. And typically, you know, the kids that would write in to us were the kids that were watching the telly. They weren't the kids that were off doing all their extracurricular activities of a weekend. They were the kids that were at home, you know, and wanted to, share stuff and so we'd get massive sack loads of mail you know and in those letters you would get some really sad ones you know or just you know I'm lonely or you're my friend or and they would tell you things in their letters um and it was at that time um I was introduced the child line and I thought this is a wonderful charity and it really does do amazing work and I shadowed on in the call centre and all the live calls that were coming in and I think what really got me was just how many calls were coming in you know a whole I think a sales call centre you know and there's the phones are ringing off the hook with with with young people you know and online which then obviously went into and it's now majority of council interactions are done via that and I thought this is and this is all at the same time that I'd then been off having therapy had come back and thought, God, this is amazing.

30:51Anna Williamson:Just talking to a professional about how I feel and him labeling in a good way what was wrong with me, which was panic disorder and generalized anxiety disorder and educating me. Because again, nobody educates you about your mental health. Well, they definitely didn't when I was at school. And so something in me just made me go, this is really shit. And I'll be honest, when I'd had this breakdown, I genuinely did have fleeting thoughts of not being here was easier than being here and I didn't have a plan to do anything but I do definitely remember um and I'm so okay saying it because I think it really normalizes a lot of what people go through and I think this is why I so many years ago started talking openly about my mental health because I feel really passionately about it because actually I've actually never been happier um and more fulfilled and more content having gone through all of this um but I remember driving my car and thinking if I just did that with the wheel into the central reservation maybe it would just kind of I don't know break a leg or something and just give me a few weeks out just out just off you know the hamster wheel of life you know in a hospital and I remember even at that moment thinking this is this is really desperate to be feeling like that that's that's awful and also somebody that yes okay I'm not underplaying the fact I was in a terrible relationship and I was having debilitating panic attacks.

32:12Anna Williamson:I was absolutely wrought mentally. You know, I had a good family, have a good family, didn't have anything, you know, so much more than so many people have. And yet I was feeling so desperate. And then also coupled with, I was working at ITV at the time with this kid's show and I had decided to do a friend of mine working in the press office. And I don't know how it happened, but I ended up doing an article for one of the nationals around mental health, which again was a bit of a thing. It was like only Stephen Fry and Denise Welch would talk about it. There's this young little whippersnapper coming in admitting she's had a little breakdown.

32:46Anna Williamson:You know, they were definitely sniggers. Oh my God, who'd admit that? You know, career suicide, that is. Something in me just thought, fuck you, world. How dare you judge me for, like, I've just been with a piece of shit who's treated me dreadfully and I've got out of that relationship. I've just got myself back from the brink of whatever with the help of an amazing therapist. And now I'm finally learning to live my life again. And it just changed everything. So I did this article and then I was absolutely inundated with people saying, oh my God, that's me, that's me, that's me, that's me, that's me on the intranet, in ITV, the internal email system.

33:19Anna Williamson:I remember thinking there's something going on here, which is just not right. People aren't talking about this. So I just decided to do it. In terms of therapists and good therapists, do you think it's important? Thank you for, first of all, sharing all of that because it was... We've got all serious for a minute. yeah but I also like the bit that you go yeah I am okay talking about it now because it is important to normalise it all which is a big part of what we try and do here I know you do where it's like and that's why I love you well it is just a chat we can sit here and talk about dildos one minute and talk about struggling with our mental health the next and people it's not in a way I love that I just turned and Jake went fuck where's he going with this Jake looked terrified in the sense that it's a whole conversation It's a whole conversation.

34:08Anna Williamson:It's not a thing. No, it's not. And I think this is it. What I'm talking about is someone with lived mental illness, I can take the piss out of myself as much. And I think... It's not taking the piss out of the illness. It's not out of the illness. It's about normalising the chat. No, because actually the biggest antidote to feeling so crap is humour. Yeah. And as you say, to have that... I'm the same with Luanna. We can talk one minute about, yeah, being in an absolutely... Louise, it's the same. We both have postnatal depression. but then the next minute we can be having a corking rate my fart you guys are exactly the same we can cross pollinate but the therapist, in terms of making a good therapist do you think a good therapist has to have lived experiences of it all it's a bit like what you've just described that actually they can relate to it more do you know what I mean I'm trying to compare it to a PE teacher where in some way people go PE teachers are those who can't do anything teach do you know i mean it's a bit yeah yeah yeah or a football manager who's never played football yeah but there's some really good football managers out there that have never played football but that's what i'm sort of weirdly asking i totally and i think it's actually a really good comparison i think there's a lot of therapists that go into the work because of personal experience lived experience and i am one of those and i would say my clients typically come to me because of that dual aspect.

35:34Anna Williamson:I think personally for me it does make me a empathetic therapist. I can't ever completely understand them. You know you never as a therapist say I understand how you feel because we can never understand how someone else feels. But I can appreciate how difficult certain situations can feel for people because I myself have been in situations where I haven't understood why I feel as I do. And I say to all my clients no one asks you to feel as you do you just do so let's let's just accept that let's accept that for what that is right now and let's move on but then on the flip side i've got some wonderful peers of mine that haven't had lived experience and they are fantastic clinicians so i don't think there's a hard and fast rule about it but i do know that a lot of people go into this work in the way that i went into the work which was personal experience of it kind of saw the light and went yeah i fancy paying it forward.

36:26Do you think though that in a funny old way you might be trying to help you aged 20, whatever it was when you didn't have anyone to talk to and you didn't know about therapy and you were sort of sitting with these feelings and feeling really confused and then every person you help now is sort of helping that version of you.

36:44Anna Williamson:Very much so, Jake. Fucking hell, that was good, wasn't it? Can I just say? Fucking hell, that was good. Wow. Wow. Jake, take it to church, my friend. Incredible. How long was I out for? Whoa. Really good. But maybe, I don't know, maybe. That was poetic. And actually, absolutely. And one of my first books I wrote, I've written five books around self-help, mental health, and I do them deliberately in really kind of layman's terms. Quite colloquial is sort of my style and language. But actually, the first one I wrote, Breaking Mad, The Insider's Guide to Anxiety, was exactly that. It was the book I wrote for me when I was in the pits of it, describing those initial panic attacks, those, you know, and the really quick go-to techniques on how to pull yourself back in the game.

37:35Anna Williamson:You know, they're not clever. They're not fancy. They're not, you know, one of them is literally go and find a toilet cubicle, sit on the toilet cubicle and do this breathing exercise because that's what I had to do in those. And I think that's what people very kindly have said. And you did go to, I was the number one best seller, but it, thank you, thank you. Still available. Still available now from Argo Booksellers. But I think in that, for me, it was those tangible moments. And this is not knocking, you know, EMDR therapy or big therapy strategies. They're fantastic as well. But for me, it was those tiny little things that you could do in the moment.

38:08Anna Williamson:If you're on the train, you're on an aeroplane, you're having a panic attack, you're overwhelmed, you're this, you're late for that. You know, you're suddenly about to stand up and do a speech and you dry up. And so that's sort of why I wrote it exactly for that. Out of interest, what would be your sort of like top three practical bits of advice if you're in a panic attack? Really, I'd say it's one big thing, actually, and it's breathing. When we are in a state of anxiety, we are... Don't misconstruise. We call it a state of high arousal, not sexual arousal, obviously, but high arousal. I'm not sure why you would assume that we would...

38:43Just because you'd used that word.

38:44Anna Williamson:Just because I'd used that word. I've totally lost a train of thought now. Best advice for anxiety. Best advice for having a panic attack. Distraction. People listening being like, no advice, but I've got an erection. That's confusing. Actually, jokes aside, one of the best ways to reduce stress and fight or flight is to masturbate. Really? Honestly. But can I just clarify? I can reduce stress right quickly. It's important we do this. I should be the Dalai fucking Lama. I often, I can often have a panic attack in a lift. Can you be real for me for a minute? I'm being, I'm claustrophobic. I'm claustrophobic.

39:18So do I. I hate it. Me too. Save.

39:20Anna Williamson:Do you actually, are you being serious? Tight spaces have always been a horrible thing for most of my 20s. Even long train journeys if I feel like I can't get off. So can I ask a question then? So are you claustrophobic or are you cleathrophobic? What's that? Claustrophobic, yeah, is the fear of small spaces. Cleathrophobic, which I, is the fear of being trapped. Yes, exactly. Where's that then? I think mine started from that chainmail disaster when I couldn't get the chainmail off of me. Oh my gosh, yeah. Because I was trapped in this chainmail. Are you being deadly serious? I'm being deadly serious.

39:53Oh, yeah, you got trapped.

39:54Anna Williamson:Now, that would be where it is then. And then it just, from then, I fucking hate it. I can't go on MRI scanners. I couldn't do any of this. I'd always just be injured or drugged up to be put asleep. Wow. And how long ago was that? What, the... The chainmail? The core memory, yeah. I was pretending to be a knight at Leeds Castle when I was 17. And would you say that's the first time you'd had a panic attack? From memory, yeah. From memory, right. And that does sound... How long were you trapped? Oh, well, until I got down the bottom of the stairs where someone could actually take off the 30-kilo chainmail.

40:31So it took me ages. That does actually...

40:33Anna Williamson:No, that does actually sound... I was just constantly... It probably didn't help that I was out of breath and walking up a set of steps as well. Yeah, but you couldn't get out. That makes sense, though. And what about you, Jake? I... It started in my early 20s, and then I remember getting the train to and from university in Manchester and suddenly feeling like, oh, I can't get off here. There's no way of getting off. And then that would sort of make my heart race and then all the rest of it. And then that started, I mean, we got really bad for a while. It sort of extended to being in a seminar at uni because as soon as the door, it's like you're in here for an hour, you can't escape.

41:08Or even like going to a friend's house for dinner, like we're here now, you can't escape. I remember moving to London and not getting a tube for the first like two years of living here because I just didn't want I didn't want the doors to shut so I would I was working as a question writer on the chase uh in north north London up in L Street and I was living in Lewisham and I would get about three hours worth of buses to get to work three hours worth of buses to get home because the idea of getting on the tube and the doors closing was that was was just too much whereas a bus I was like I can always get off.

41:41That's right. So it's been a bit of a journey through my 20s at getting better in some respects but still now the idea of getting on a plane, I mean that's the ultimate cleathrophobic thing. Good. I'm looking it up, I've never seen it described as that but that is what it is because it's not just the physical thing.

41:58Anna Williamson:No, it's the feeling of being trapped. But sometimes it's like feeling trapped in a more emotional way, a social way. Right, right. And it's a very exposing, very vulnerable moment. and how have you got past that with tubes? A mix of talking therapy and then CBT and then one day actually, to be honest with you, which I mean, maybe the therapy was working, but it felt like there was just a fuck it moment where I was like, I can't live like this anymore. So I forced myself on the tube and it was horrific and then I did it again and again and again and now it's like a little bit less horrific. But even now when it stops in a tunnel and you don't know why, that feeling, it starts rushing in the stomach and as soon as it starts moving again, it dissipates.

42:42It's almost actually worth having the panic attack for it to go away. It's lovely, isn't it?

42:45Anna Williamson:I can totally relate to that. And what you've described there is flooding, which is where it's complete flooding and exposure therapy, which is a form of therapy. But one, I would recommend you did it with someone that could take you through that. But what you guys, honestly, what you've just described there is so common. I have it too. and I actually I didn't know it was common it's so common I would honestly say when I talked about it on my socials ages ago I was inundated by people that were like oh it's such a common phobia and it's typically cleathrophobia not the claustrophobia that people have to challenge with and what is quite interesting I actually found this quite recently doing some work around birth trauma that actually I think because I never used to have issues with trains or tubes or planes or anything I've travelled the world twice over and I was like why has this come about now and I linked it to having children.

43:35Anna Williamson:And I thought, oh, is this, you know, people talk about, you know, the mum anxiety, which is a thing as well. But actually, I was working, I was quite lucky working the fields I work in. But actually, I've nailed it down to when I had my first birth, and I was, had a spinal block, you know, giving birth to my child. And obviously, I couldn't move because I was anesthetized from the neck down. And that feeling of trapped, because I couldn't get off the delivery bed. and one of the therapists that I was working with on this birth trauma said majority of her clients, their birth trauma has manifested now as clithrophobia and it comes from being incapacitated in childbirth.

44:17Anna Williamson:So it's fascinating and I think this is the point. Everyone has something which happens, you know, which starts from somewhere and that's why we need to normalise it. Can you fix it then please? Yes, I'll try, I'll help you. Thank you. I actually will try and help you because I feel for you. Yeah, it's horrible. There is a little technique that my supervisor gave me with planes, which is called a ladder scale technique, which I'll give you. It's a little breathing technique. And it's just, it's, distraction is one of the best ways. I didn't even answer the question of how to get yourself out of a panic attack.

44:43Anna Williamson:So I'm going to do it now. But distraction is, so distraction and breathing is one of the quickest ways you can get yourself out of a panic attack. Okay, so box breathing, okay, is really good. So breathe in. So imagine if you're on a plane, anywhere you are, you can find a square or rectangle shape, okay, wherever you are. or imagine his head for example yeah perfect but let's say you're on a train a tube a plane or whatever it may be in a lift find a square or find a square and you breathe in for four counts as you go up one side you get to the top of that point and you hold for four you breathe out for four as you go along the top you hold for four you breathe in again as you go down third side you get to that next point and hold for four and then you breathe out again as you go back along okay now what you're doing in that moment is you're regulating your nervous system you're regulating you're bringing the anxiety down and you are distracting yourself all of those will just help to bring the anxiety down wow i feel did you just do it yeah it felt amazing i just did it i feel great already good thank you Thank you so much.

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48:05Would you say we're like the male equivalent of Luana? Seemingly so, from how today's gone, yeah.

48:12Anna Williamson:I think this is a very similar crossover. Gossip is basically an excuse to judge people, isn't it? I think it's good. It's like a good judgment because you're reading them, aren't you? That's you practising. You're reflecting. You're reflecting. You're reflecting on someone's behaviour. In order to help you with your work. To understand them more. It's not just to satisfy your need of slagging people off behind their back. Correct. Okay. That's right. what is it that you absolutely love about gossip? Look, we all do it. And I think we all just need to admit it. I don't like gossip. I'm not a gossip.

48:56Anna Williamson:I am a bloody gossip. But I would like to say I'm a kind gossiper. I'm not bitchy. I'm not bitchy. I've heard about you. What if you're good? I'm not bitchy. I like a bit of, oh, you'll never guess what. And I like that kind of gossip. Oh, my God, no way. They've just done that, have they? I like that real curtain twitchy gossip. It's good for us. It is good for us. It's like, oh, they didn't do that. I mean, the village I live in, when someone else said that there was gossip, that someone was having it off with someone over there and they shouldn't have been. I mean, I am here for that. I pull up that chair to that window and I'm there by the curtains.

49:35What if the gossip is about you, though?

49:37Anna Williamson:Oh, no. What have you got on me? What have you got? The panic. I have no gossip on you. but I'm just saying if it's about me because you're such a kind gossip and you enjoy it so much but actually then you hear it oh it's about me you're like oh what do I do now I honestly I think fair game look I've been doing this long enough to know that everyone's going to have an opinion of you and it's none of my business what anyone's opinion is of me because they're going to have it I'm going to have an opinion on everyone too well it's actually innate we have to exactly we have to Someone said to me the other day, don't be so judgmental.

50:17We're all judgmental. But I have to be. And they go, what do you mean? I went, because you have to judge someone or because of back in the day where you had to judge a situation, whether is that situation going to kill me or is it going to be beneficial to me? And we've just accelerated it. It's like, is that person someone that I want to spend time with? Exactly. I think as we all remember from Yuval Noah Harari's book Sapiens, he talks about how gossip was a way of survival because you could understand who's hoarding resources, who's particularly good at a certain skill and it would help you survive.

50:53Anna Williamson:Right, I mean there it is. There he is. There he is. Look at him, look at him basking over there.

51:14I'm the doctor.

51:19I appreciate your help and your contribution. But make that the last time you mug me off in front of my pals. Okay. Understood. Sorry about that.

51:41it's fucking brilliant from you jake honestly it was so fucking good that was i'm just doing my box breathing

51:50Anna Williamson:really really good love that um but yeah gossip i love a bit of idol gossip what about gossip about you jake you ever heard any gossip about you like yourself no no no no no no no no no Fair enough. So bloody lying. Yeah, he is a liar. Yeah, I can see. Someone did gossip once about how much I was worth. Was it a good gossip? It was good gossip. And you didn't correct them? No. Possibly, you know, talking about money's vulgar. Well, Google's got an answer. Exactly. Google's answer is very wrong, but I'll take it. Something similar happened to me when word got round the Cobham area. Oh. And I had a teammate.

52:31and his wife and family living there. And she had heard from all the other mums at the local school that someone was having an affair with a Harlequins rugby player. And I was driving through Cobham on one of the days, and I live miles away, so I'm never in Cobham. Oh, that's it. And this rugby player's wife spotted me in the car, and I was like, huh. And she went back to her husband and said, oh my god I've just seen Marla in Cobham it's him it's him he's having an affair and he was like what? fucking hell

53:06Anna Williamson:and how long did it take to get around? it's definitely not him look at the state of him it's definitely not that she was like it is him it is him and it took him a while to sort of muster up the courage to then ask me and he went mate have you been in Cobham recently? and I was like yeah and he went why are you being shady about it? because I was doing something that was meant to be kept a secret. So I had to be secretive about it. Right. So that fuelled it even more. Oh. And I said, why do you keep asking? He said, oh, because apparently the mums at local school, they know someone is having an affair with someone in Cobham.

53:43And I didn't correct him because there was part of me that was like...

53:47Anna Williamson:But did your wife hear about this? Yeah, then I told her. She went, fucking hell, no way you're able to have an affair. Just tell them the truth. But there was part of me that was like, oh, I'd quite like to fuel that gossip a little bit, even though it's not true. and I was just recording an audio book. Oh. In someone's back garden, actually. That's not a euphemism. It's not. But the gossip was quite good, though. It was good gossip. Yeah, see, that's the kind of, you know what I mean?

54:14We are just taking a quick break to deliver an important message from our friends at the Refund Club. Joe, I've got a theory that you can get a lot done in a minute. Oh. A lot done. Did you... Agree or disagree. Did you come up with that? Agree or disagree. Yeah, no, I agree. Agree, agree. I agree. Good, I'm glad you agree. I don't want to talk about it. Okay, well, I want to put it to the test then. I want to put it to the test. How many pints of water do you think you could down in a minute? Don't like water. What do you prefer? I prefer milk because water would hydrate me and I prefer to be chronically dehydrated.

54:49You tolerate lactose, big time. Yeah. Big time. Yeah, big time and I'm proud of it. Okay, fine. That's also not knocking anyone who can't tell you. No, no, no, not knocking anyone. Altering the question then, how many pints of milk could you get down you in a minute? Loads. Put a number on it. Between one and five. Four?

55:12Yes. Four pints of milk in one minute. A hundred... Bring out the milk, everybody! And just like that, the milk has appeared magically on your desk. My goodness me. You're going to drink those four pints of milk. Meanwhile, I'm going to talk about our wonderful friends at the Refund Club. Are you ready? No. Your 60 seconds starts now. Something else that takes only 60 seconds is a check to see if you could receive hundreds of pounds from the Refund Club. You see, the Financial Conduct Authority found that millions of people were mis-sold car finance between 2007 and 2021, and billions of pounds are expected to be paid back.

55:49Could it be 60 seconds is all it takes to fill out a form, no paperwork, no commitment, and you only pay a fee if the claim is successful. He's on his third pint of milk. You could even do one for a friend in case they were busy with more important things. The average claim, by the way, is£829. If you took out car finance in the UK between 2007 and 2021, you could be in luck. Joe, how are you getting on? He's on his final pint of milk, everybody. This is incredible. I feel like you're going to need a wee quite quickly. I'm worried about your bladder. You used to play for England. Look at this man's career.

56:22He's just finished the final pint of milk in one minute. Unbelievable. Joe, bring it home.

56:33Go to refundclub.co.uk forward slash Marla. That's refundclub.co.uk forward slash Marla to do your free check. For the audio listener, that was four pints of actual milk. I feel a bit sticky.

56:53Right, Anna, we have established you're a natural when it comes to helping people. It's in your dinner.

57:00Anna Williamson:Thank you. You know? All of the helixes are just full of that mitochondria that is bursting out to want to help other human beings. Okay? But for this final exercise, I want you to take a break from it. Oh, fine. And I want you to stop helping people. Okay. I want you to embrace the gossip side of you, the Luana-powered Anna. Go on. You okay? Yeah. And I want you to start judging. Oh. Isn't that right? Yeah, here's what's going to happen. Okay. Sorry, that was very bossy of me, wasn't it? No, you... Here's what's going to happen. From start to finish of today's session... It's Eve Excel. You've clearly showed to the guests, myself, and everyone else in the room, that you are this show's one true leader.

57:49Wow. And I am absolutely here for it. Take it away, Jake. What could happen, if you're up for it, but you don't have to, is I'm going to read out the names of some famous people. Yep. And you've just got to give us your honest judgment. Honest judgment. Oh. One word, two words, three words max. All right. Just the first thing that comes to your head. On the clock. Six seconds off the clock. Be brutal if you want to. Don't have to be. But try be. Time starts now. Harry Kane.

58:22Anna Williamson:Great. Oh, come on. Victoria Beckham. Absolute legend. Love her. Okay. Ant. Ant. What, as in any ant? Ant or Dec. Oh. Oh, Dec. I love Dec. He is such a sweet, kind guy. Ant? Ant's lovely too. Ooh! Voice went high! Voice went high! Now we're cooking! Paddington bear. Aw, best bear in the world. No, not bad. Um, what about him over there? Yarn. Confused. Yeah. It's the nastiest she's been so far. James Haskell. Says enough. No, I love James. Naughty. I don't like James. Thank you so much for coming, Anna Williamson, everybody. What do you mean you love James? The Hask. I didn't think... The Hask.

59:19Oh, The Hask. Quickly, say another name. Tom Reed Wilson.

59:24Anna Williamson:Oh. Best guy in the world. Joe Marler. Snuggly Bear. Oh. Chode. You've been quite nice about everyone, really. Sorry, you missed the end of that bit. Snuggly Bear what? Snuggly Bear Chode. Chode? Chode? Chode. What was that then? I've not heard chode in the ears. Chode. Chode. Who have you been talking to? Chode. We often talk about chodes on Luana. Yeah, but who have you been talking to about my chode? Who the fuck's told you? I have to say, chodes are very naughty. Has my wife been ringing in? Listen, we are not chode-shaming. No. At all. There's nothing wrong with chodes. No. Yours did work.

1:00:01At all. Mine worked loads. Chode in the hole.

1:00:03Anna Williamson:Honestly, it's...

1:00:09Someone give him a bath tub! That's what I'm taking back down! It was an attempt to try and work out whether what we'd heard so far in the session was genuine and maybe we'd have caught you off guard. Turned out you are actually a lovely human. And that was actually mean of us to try and trick her up. But thank you so much. Oh, okay. Healing crystals? What are we doing now?

1:00:35Anna Williamson:No, we're just, that's lovely. Thank you. I have my moments. Yeah, you are a lovely human. Well, you are a fabulous, fabulous man and so are you, Jo. I don't quite know what I'm doing right now, but it's feeling nice. It's beautiful. Mmm, very tiny, tiny hands. Mine and Sweaty, they're tiny, aren't they? I like a clammy hand. Put your hand up a minute. Oh my gosh. Doesn't matter that I've got a chode penis. and on that note you're welcome Anna that is the end of our session today I conclude that oh yes what do you say doc I conclude that you are actually a wonderful therapist I've learnt a huge amount from you I hope you've also learnt from a fellow peer of yours immeasurably and I think Jake's what it takes to become one of us one day.

1:01:31Anna Williamson:I feel like Jake, yeah. Yeah. Needs to pull up a chair and... But not too close. No, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no. Just a chair in the next room. How have you found it? I have found this enlightening. I've found it cathartic and very educational. Good. Okay, on that note, we're going to present you with a badge so you always remember this session. Every guest gets a badge bespoke to them, designed by Janet. and today we've got therapist by day gossiper by night good with lovely little lips on there actually they're very nice you're like the you're like the you're like Batman but in the woman version and gossip this is for you you're gossip woman thank you you're gossip pissed therapist by day gossiper and did Janet actually make this yeah she did yeah oh that is really really good I'm going to put that on oh I'm going to really wear this really lovely set of lips really wear it she's done really well Lovely lips.

1:02:27Anna Williamson:I get a lolly. You do get a lolly as well. Jake, you've gone with orange. No good. What's wrong with orange? It's been sat by a hot windowsill for a while. There we go. What's that?

1:02:46Anna Williamson:Can I just say, I'm an enormous fan of you both. And I have really enjoyed being in your office today. And you just keep doing what you're doing. and you're welcome over at Luana HQ anytime. Anna Williamson, everybody. Fantastic. Brilliant. Be gone, Janet. We'll take you. Thank you so much. Are we end? Are we end? Yes. Okay, sure. Lovely. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Anna Williamson. Anna Williamson, everybody. Wow. Wow, wow, wee, wah. If you want to join the Doctor's Waiting List, then please subscribe to our YouTube channel and follow us on Instagram at We'll See You Now Show. Remember, unless it's not clear enough already, I'm not a real doctor.

1:03:32If you need any professional help, you'll find a link to great support services on our Instagram. I've been Joe Marler and he has been Jake Bardwaj. Do you want to do your own name in future? No, I like you saying my name. You like me saying your name? Yeah. Say my name, say my name when no one is around you. Say, baby, I love you. Why a certain chain? Jake Bardwaj. Thank you very much. And this has been Joe Marlow. We'll see you now. And we will both see you next time. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Espolon Tequila. Balanced. Delicious. 100 % agave. 0 % ego. Just add ice, lime, and your mouth. For real margarita, ride the rooster.

1:04:10Anna Williamson:Espolon Tequila. 40 % alcohol by volume. 80 proof. Copyright 2026. Compel your America. New York, New York. Drink responsibly. This episode is brought to you by ChatGPT. Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons Podcast. Have you guys heard about ChatGPT work? It's the new way to use ChatGPT for bigger multi-step projects. And when you need more than just answers, give ChatGPT work access to your apps and files, and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports. Get started at ChatGPT.com by selecting work mode available on Plus and Pro plans. Can you hear that?

1:04:47It's the calm, sugar, white, sandy beaches of St. Pete Clearwater. And if you listen closely, you'll hear the mmms coming from the epic restaurants, the cheers from sun-soaked music festivals, and the beat of our legendary nightlife scene. Before you hit play on your next song, text the group chat. It's time to plan a trip to St. Pete Clearwater. Learn more at visitspc.com.