In short
Comedian Jamali Maddix discusses being “unbothered” as a persona, his past boredom and misbehavior at school, and how he handles emotional strain while making documentaries about extremists and other hateful ideologies. He also plays a “bothered vs not bothered” quick-fire game and ends with a responsibility/commitment exercise involving a bonsai plant.
Guest backgrounds
Jamali Maddix is a comedian and documentarian who has made multiple films interviewing groups labeled extremists, racists, and pedo-hunters. He’s known for being laid-back on camera and for documentary work that focuses on “why and who” rather than sensational “what.”
Key claims
He says he learned at school that effort wouldn’t change outcomes (getting Bs), so he coasted and played games. In documentary work, he aims to be “the conductor of their hate” so subjects feel comfortable and reveal their real beliefs. He claims he’s only bothered about issues he cares about, and that responsibility is what truly makes someone bothered.
Notable examples
His proudest documentary is about American Nazis; a fun one involved the Black Israelites in New York (belief that Black people are original Jews; Jesus returning to enslave white people). He describes interviewing a small cult-like group in Edinburgh.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOMorning Routines and Humor
3:10 to 6:00
Hosts discuss their morning routines and share humorous anecdotes.
“That is a sign of someone who does not have a morning routine.”
Introducing Jamali Maddix
6:00 to 7:00
The hosts introduce Jamali Maddix, a comedian with a unique perspective.
“I'm going to take the same approach that I do with the water park in Dubai.”
Jamali's Calm Approach
7:00 to 10:00
Jamali shares his philosophy of staying calm in adversity and his unique metaphor.
“Because it's meant to be like a one-on-one?”
Intake Questionnaire with Jamali
10:00 to 12:00
Jamali answers the intake questionnaire, revealing personal insights.
“Bub, do you want to hear the madness here?”
Perceptions and Attitudes
12:00 to 14:01
Discussion on Jamali's demeanor and approach towards life and reactions.
“You don't sweat the small stuff or the big stuff?”
Jamali's School Experience and Attitude
14:01 to 18:19
Jamali reflects on his school experience, his lack of motivation, and how it shaped his behavior.
“You know, I don't know what reaction people want.”
Navigating Comedy and Career Aspirations
18:20 to 22:35
Jamali discusses his journey in comedy, career goals, and the balance between ambition and contentment.
“Oh, the Turkey Twizzlers and I've got to stop the Turkey Twizzlers.”
Navigating Comedy and Career Aspirations
22:36 to 25:06
Jamali discusses his journey in comedy, career goals, and the balance between ambition and contentment.
“like I just got a house and I'm like, yeah, but I want a bigger house.”
Bothered or Not Bothered Game
25:12 to 28:00
The hosts engage in a fun game discussing various scenarios of being bothered or not.
“Joe, I think if you look in your drawers, you should have some paddles that say bothered or not bothered.”
Bothered or Not Bothered?
28:00 to 28:30
The hosts discuss the extent to which they are bothered by various issues, including high-speed rail and Epstein's connections.
“Right, bothered, not bothered, HS2, high-speed rail 2.”
Show all 20 chapters
Documentary Journey
28:30 to 29:54
Jamali reflects on his versatility as a documentary maker, discussing the range of topics he's covered, including extremists and racists.
“You know, the research here, we've got great range.”
Proud Documentary Moments
29:54 to 31:18
Jamali shares his proudest moments in documentary filmmaking, including insights into the beliefs of the Black Israelites.
“And it was just like, it was so bonkers and they would dress up in these like big outfits and they had these big door knockers.”
Curiosity Behind the Camera
31:18 to 33:04
Jamali discusses his curiosity in exploring the motivations and backgrounds of people with controversial beliefs.
“Like, I couldn't join the Nazis and whatever.”
Confronting Extremism
33:04 to 34:10
Jamali explains how he approaches interviewing extremists, balancing the need for honest dialogue with his own emotional responses.
Layers of Personality
34:10 to 36:18
The conversation explores Jamali's multifaceted personality, balancing humor with seriousness in various contexts.
“Because if I sort of go in there and I'm too, you're wrong, number one, they won't open up and I have to let them be comfortable for what they really are, which are racist, which are horrible, which are ignorant.”
The Burden of Investment
36:18 to 37:36
Jamali reflects on the importance of not investing too much in temporary issues, drawing parallels to past experiences.
“that I and I can remember the feeling of having say like a breakup you know you remember your first big breakup you're in that moment and you think that's your whole world and that's all it's ever going to be.”
Responsibility and Relationship with Anger
37:36 to 39:08
The hosts discuss the concept of responsibility and how it relates to anger and annoyance in personal interactions.
“Hey, we're in a good section, I promise.”
Jamali's Reflection and Plant Care
42:00 to 44:05
Jamali and the hosts reflect on his progress and plant care responsibilities.
“And tell them how you're going to look after them.”
Jamali's Reflection and Plant Care
44:36 to 45:08
Jamali and the hosts reflect on his progress and plant care responsibilities.
“It arrives in a cloud of feathers with a cry to wake the dead.”
Jamali's Reflection and Plant Care
45:36 to 46:08
Jamali and the hosts reflect on his progress and plant care responsibilities.
“Discover Pandora Talisman, a new collection designed to help you express every side of who you are.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Propel Fitness Water. With Gatorade electrolytes, zero sugar, and vitamins, Propel hydrates better than water to help you get the most out of your workout and get back to your best self. What propels you? Propel with Gatorade electrolytes. Sierra has all the best active and outdoor brands for the super athletic stuff, like running gear for cruising up the trail. Woo! And the super athletic-ish stuff, like fishing gear for chilling by the creek. Nice cast. fitness apparel to push for higher reps you got this and golf balls priced so you can afford to lose one or a few head to sierra or sierra.com for the brands you want at the prices that let you do it all from athletic to athletic sierra's got it chronic migraine is 15 or more headache days a month each lasting four hours or more botox on a botulinum toxin a prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine before they start it's not for those with 14 or fewer headache days a month.
0:58It prevents on average eight to nine headache days a month versus six to seven for placebo. Prescription Botox is injected by your doctor. Effects of Botox may spread hours to weeks after injection causing serious symptoms. Allerge your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness can be signs of a life-threatening condition. Patients with these conditions before injection are at highest risk. Side effects may include allergic reactions, neck and injection site pain, fatigue, and headache. Allergic reactions can include rash, welts, asthma symptoms, and dizziness.
1:26Don't receive Botox if there's a skin infection. Tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, including ALS Lou Gehrig's disease, myasthenia gravis or Lambert-Eaton syndrome, and medications, including botulinum toxins, as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. Why wait? Ask your doctor, visit BotoxChronicMigraine.com, or call 1-800-44-BOTOX to learn more. Do you know when it all changed? When Jamie Oliver started fucking around with the school dealers. He ruined everything, man. You could have a cheeseburger at 11 o 'clock in the morning. That's when England was England.
1:55That's when England was England. Extremists, pedo-hunters, racists. Snogmaria void. What? Sorry, I said snogmaria void. Inappropriate. Yeah, see, that, now I'm pissed. Jamala, you f***ing piece of s***. You want to f***ing go some or what? I might stall me out of this podcast.
2:20Hello, welcome to my office. This is Jamala. We'll see you now with me, Dr. Jamala. This is the show where I wander through the corridors of celebrities' minds and see what treasures or traps I can find. With me, as always, is my trusty research assistant, Jake. Hello, Jake. I think that is a beautiful voice. Isn't it? That is, you should be getting a lot of audiobook work with that. Audiobook work? Yes. What do you mean? You could be reading a very enchanting story. I could imagine you might read Bleak House by Charles Dickens. just like that. Cool.
3:00Joe, you're in a great mood today. Am I? Yeah, you are. Yeah, I am. I am. How are you, mate? I'm all right. Yeah, yeah. I'm here, aren't I? At work. Oh. Again. Oh, right. Okay. You a morning person? What does that even mean? You're a morning person. You like the morning. Do you have a morning routine? What's your morning routine? I get up. That is a sign of someone who does not have a morning routine. Do you do that when you're trying to make your day feel busier, including in what you've done in the list of the day. So, got up. That's one. As soon as you conclude that on the list, you've sort of proven you've not really done that much today.
3:33Or he's got his phone out. Because this is my routine of the day. You've got it written down? I wake up to this.
3:48Right. That's my alarm. Is that the MGM line? It is the MGM line. Is it really? Yeah. You wake up to that every day? I wake up to my phone on my radiator, which is away from my bed, and it's a lion roaring, the MGM lion roaring. So it encourages me to get up out of bed so I don't just press snooze and then fall asleep in bed. Then you feel like a powerful lion. So I have to get up and I feel like the lion, ready to seize the day. Carpe diem. Carpe diem. Seize the day. You can do it in English. Seize it. It's what I wake up to.
4:25Well, I wake up to that. For the audio list now, that is... I wake up to that every morning because I'm so bad at getting up. I set an alarm every five minutes for about half an hour. What do you think that does to your cortisol levels, mate? Mate, it makes me wake up with incredible amount of stress. Yeah. And then what do you think that does to your parasympathetic nervous system for the rest of the day? That's the most syllables you've ever used in a word. It won't be all you want, mate, but you're the one with cortisol running through your veins. It's true. Let me say that. It doesn't do...
4:58It can't be doing good things for my cortisol levels. You need something calming, like Greensleeves. Wake up to Greensleeves and then...
5:07Or the Harry Potter theme.
5:11Either one. Either one. Joe, I'm really excited to introduce our next guest. He's a comedian, a documentarian, one of the calmest men to ever sit opposite an extremist. That's not you. That's something he did. you want an extremist Jamali Maddox huge huge sorry the way I phrased it did make it seem he was going to be calm sat up opposite you that's not what I meant at all Jamali Jamali Maddox big fan big fan you guys have had the pleasure of we've encountered each other's bodies before yeah you've encountered each other's bodies each other's minds or just each other's bodies it was mainly physical sure sure sure sure and it would be good to tango with him again nice although it always tends to be quite a horizontal tango okay As in he's just, he's as laid back as they come, isn't he?
5:57Do you have a sort of an approach, a sort of general idea? I'm going to take the same approach that I do with the water park in Dubai. Go on. I'm just going to sit on the donut, jump on that river, and see where this lazily takes me. Wow. that is beautiful so I I use that as a metaphor for trying to stay calm in the adversity of life so you get on the donut you get in the water slide more like a lazy river lazy river and you see where it takes you and usually it just takes me around the same circuit every time Janet could you let Jamali in please thank you goodbye
6:54Jamali Maddox, everybody.
6:59Welcome. Thank you. Welcome. How are you? I'm all right. How are you doing? Yeah, good. Yeah? This is Jake. Hi, Jamali. Good to see you. Hey, Jake. How are you doing, bud? I'm very good, thank you. How come you have an extra guy then? Because it's meant to be like a one-on-one? Or have I messed up the fantasy of this? this has been a fantasy of yours no no the idea of like why would that be if it's like a practice no I'm not practicing it I think oh okay this is the real thing this is the real deal holy food there's no practice going on here alright you'll definitely learn yeah yeah yeah that I've not practiced a single fucking thing okay but welcome thank you let's start with the intake questionnaire full name Jamali Maddox no middle name Yeah, Jamali Mark Maddox.
7:49Oh. Yeah. Don't like it. Don't like it. No, no. Do you not like it? Don't bother me. I never bring it up because I don't... No one's ever calling me Mark. Star sign. I'm an Aries. Occupation. Comedian. You've gone straight in with comedian. Yeah. A lot of people dance around that. Why? We've sort of established they get a little bit scared. All the comedians that come on, they say, I want to know, am I a presenter? Am I a guest comedian? But then I don't want to tell people that. I'm a comedian. Yeah. I think everything else, other things I do, are kind of add-on things. Like their jobs. I feel like I'm a comedian.
8:29That's the core job. Favourite late-night snack? That's a hard question. Now we're getting to the real stuff. Do you know what I've been eating recently? Because I'm trying to eat a bit healthier. I don't know how healthy this is, but I'll have scrambled eggs and I'll have the, you know, the parathas. I'll season scrambled eggs with onions and peppers and seasonings. And I'll have, you know, the frozen parathas. Paratha? Paratha? Am I saying it right, brother? The fish. Oh, you're saying it right. No, no, it's like a bread. It's like a thin bed. It's like a, you get it from Indian restaurants.
9:02It's like a thin, I don't know why this is symbolising city. I'll take this one, Joe. It's a, I was wondering why I was here. You're doing the hard thing. And I just said, is that right? I'm sorry, I don't know your background, but I'm going to assume more than Joe that you would know. I wasn't even looking at you. I was like, hey, hey, hey. I'm talking about seasonings and stuff, but you know I'm talking about that. Honestly, Jamali, it's been 15 weeks. I'm like, I've got a reason to be here. The layers of flaky pastry, it's not a naan, Brett. It's not a naan. Yeah, it's not a naan. It's another sort of like Indian bread.
9:37Yeah. It's very flaky, Joe. You'd really like it. And you get these beautiful frozen ones. you put them in a dry pan and they just appear exactly like they've been made fresh like my mama didn't used to make them yeah that's quite nice man not the sort of snack late night snack that takes some effort actually but I'm trying to I'm up late so night time for me isn't like oh it's nearly bedtime it's like I'm just coming back from work so that's my telly time that's my food time you know because I wake up late innit yeah so most of the day I'm probably I mean I wake up mad late So most of the day is doing whatever and then night time is on naturally starting to work and shit.
10:15What's on your touring rider? Bub, do you want to hear the madness here? Parada and scrambled eggs? No, I've been on tour. I must have been touring now for like four, about five, six years. I didn't even know I could have a rider. In America, it's more big to give you a rider and I'll ask for like a Pacific beer and water. What's your party trick? You got one? Yeah, I can spin a pillow. What do you mean you can spin a pillow? Let me see if this is right. Yeah, I can do it with this one. For the audio listener, I've passed in a pillow. Wow. That's the party trip. Thank you, Dan. I remember my mum.
10:56My mum said, I used to do this with my mum's pillows. And she goes, when are you ever going to fucking need to be able to do that? Well, mum, look at me now. You see this? Wow. That is so cool. It's harder than it looks as well, yeah. Go on, do you have a go? I will not cave to your peer pressure, Jake. I'll have a go because I want to have a go. Because you want to have a go, yeah, yeah, yeah. He bent something, he did it. Put that massive finger up like that, pass it. You see when I punched it, how different it was? That nearly broke the fibres. You sucked your fucking fist at it, bro. That was actually way more impressive than I thought it was going to be.
11:39Yeah. Now, a lot of people say that's my party trick. So when you go to parties, you go, hey, check out my pillows. Oh, yeah, I break that out regularly. What's yours? No, no, let's stay on that. Go on, what's yours? No, no, let's stay on that. You must have one. I think party tricks are given that name. You're allowed to do them. You're able to do them at parties. Yes. Yeah, what is yours then?
12:08You know, like monks. Yes. you know the ones I think they were Buddhist monks okay the fighting ones yeah yeah yeah yeah the best ones yeah I think they're the only ones I think no they've got them they've got them men who brew wine and that they make the buck fast in Scotland they're monks oh yeah yeah yeah but then they'll do kung fu fuck it's pointless nah imagine you join them thinking they're the kung fu monks and then you get there it's just a brewery you go what the fuck is this so like the Buddhist monks yeah they can inhale their testes yes the iron balls yeah yeah yeah yeah so I can do that you can inhale your testicles up wow for protection where'd they go just in the in the sockets in the sockets yeah yeah yeah you know you can do it yeah yeah with you if you but it's again not one I'd break out at a party really yeah
13:09I'm sensing you're not really fussed. In what sense? About anything.
13:20You don't sweat the small stuff or the big stuff? Not really. No, nothing? Not really. Nothing phases you in the slightest? No. You're like, unbothered. Do you know what? I've been called that a lot and I've never really gone into it so I guess we can talk about it I don't know why have you come to that assessment? Body language this is open answer answer the audio listener is answer crossed
13:52answers given in the detailed intake questionnaire yeah general attitude and energy that I'm getting from you yeah it's not a negative thing yeah i'm not saying it's more of an observational thing yeah yeah and i'd like to try and help you yeah to see if we can get you more bothered about something why but what's the benefit of me being more bothered i can sense this is going to be a tricky one today i don't do you know what is a lot of time my reaction is more due to they want me to be more Like, I'm here. Yeah. Like, I am here. Yeah. You know, I don't know what reaction people want. I don't know what that means to be more bothered.
14:36Right, let's dig into this a little bit. Yeah, let's dig into it. School, Jamali. Yeah. The beginning of Jamali. Uh-huh. Were you like this back then? Yeah, probably, yeah. Just horizontal? Well, I sort of learned... So, I was proper shit at school, wasn't it? Yeah. And I didn't do well at school. And I kind of, when I got to like year, late year eight, early year nine, I kind of realized, okay, no amount of effort I put in is going to change the scale. Like, I feel like if you're getting Bs, what's the point of striving for an A? You're getting Bs. Bs are fine. So why I could, so if I gave 100 % effort, I could get, so say I was like an EF student.
15:26Yeah. I could work my fucking ass off and I might have hit the range of D at best E I might as well stay at an F and then I stay at the F I give minimal effort yeah and the rest of that effort I'm not giving it's just for good let's just have a good time but what if your 100 % yeah effort actually got you to an A well I'm fucking lardy fucking dust what the fuck I give a shit Because I'd rather play miniclip. You know what I'm saying? Miniclip games. Yeah, I was a miniclip guy, brother. That was so good. The thing that I would have got if I was going to get straight A's, like I didn't want to be a finance bro.
16:11So why was I working towards that? Do you know what I mean? All the things that I would have got by getting all of these good grades weren't things I wanted. So by not having that drive or want to be successful at academic work, did it then lead to boredom or misbehaviour? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So were you naughty at school then? Yeah, I was. Because you weren't bothered about everything and you weren't on task with that lot. Did you just then fuck around everything? Yeah, I fucked. I was heavy in the fucking around crew. We were deep. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was back of the class guy. Not bothered? No, I remember the teacher put us in the back of the class.
16:52She moved us up front because she had hope. It was sort of like Dangerous Mind. She was like, put her hat backwards and goes, I'm going to relate to you. And by the end of the year, I was done. By the end of the year, I was done. She gave up. But if you weren't that bothered about school or doing it, why did you turn up? Because when I started going to school, they started introducing that thing where if you didn't go to school, they'll put your mum in jail. And I was like, I hate school, but not enough to let my mum have to do a two-month bird. Do you know what I mean? Like, poor mumsy. Like, you know what I mean?
17:31She's got to go to jail now. She's going to stick her in Holloway because I want to fuck around and play PlayStation. That's mad, isn't it? Because I remember when I was in primary school, you could go holiday during school term. You used to go on a teletext holiday. Your mum could take your turkey for five days. Fucking teletext. And they would just like, they would tap their nose. and then when I went to secondary school do you know when it all changed? When Jamie Oliver started fucking around with the school dinners. He ruined everything man. That's when they all started getting a bit mad. You know when you hear these older guys go it's gone woke it went the other way.
17:59Right. It wasn't wokeness it was other shit. So you're putting Jamie Oliver up at Jamie Oliver's door for truancy prisoners. I'm just saying. Even though he was just trying to change turkey twizzlers. Yeah. Do you know do you know where it started? Stick in your beacon. That's where it started. Stick in your noses. Be a nosy. Oh, what them kids eating at school? Why what they eating, Jamie? Why about what you're fucking eating? Why about what you're cooking? What? Turkey Twizzlers. Ain't your business. Oh, the Turkey Twizzlers and I've got to stop the Turkey Twizzlers. Fuck off, man. I love them Turkey Twizzlers.
18:33I was just trying to say, so good. That's where it is. That's the cool thing. That's the cool thing. That's the cool. You could have a cheeseburger at 11 o 'clock in the morning. That's when England was England. That's when England was England. You said in the intake questionnaire. Yes. Comedian. Yes. Straight up, straight to the point. Comedy is quite a competitive world. Uh-huh. And for someone who's so laid back and not like, you've got to be quite motivated to be good at that. Yeah. Yeah. I think... Doing tours night after night. I enjoy that. That doesn't feel like work. It's like there's...
19:15I never came up with this saying another comedian did. when you're doing comedy a lot of times you're not paying me for the gig because I'll do that for free you're paying me for the travel you're paying me to have to leave my house and go to Oswalt Twistle or Blackpool or whatever the fuck it is you know that's what you're paying me for you're not paying me to stand on stage and tell jokes so it never feels like work like I enjoy like all of that I enjoy you know what I mean so it's not really like work wise I think the competitive nature probably comes through in navigating the business and show business.
19:51And it's probably, you know, where I've made most of my mistakes. And it's probably because I'm, I've got a sort of laid back mentality and I'm kind of like, ah. What's the dream? Like, have you got, what keeps you going? Is there a point at which you go, I sold out fucking arenas 10 times over and then you go, that's my goal. Or you're not, but you just enjoy the ride of it. This is the thing, yeah. I remember when I first met my agent and he said to me, what do you want to do in this business? This is before I signed with him. It's like the meeting before you signed with him, yeah? He goes, what do you want to do in this business?
20:32And I think I was like, fuck me, I must have been about 23 at the time. And I said, I want to play, I want to do this club in Amsterdam called Tumla. And he's like, yeah, yeah, but like directing. and I said, I want to play this club in Amsterdam. And they laughed because that's a very achievable thing. And you do it. Like I did it. I sold out two shows there a few years back. And there was like a big, there's always, you want more. And I don't know if that ever ends. I don't think, like, even if you achieve that thing that you think you want in your head, something else comes along. So I try not to be too like, what's the big thing?
21:14I've got things I want to achieve in that, but I try to be content with what I have because that's what is. That's actually reality and I should enjoy that moment. I sold out this show in LA, in New York, and if you would have told 17-year-old me that that was going to be my life, I would have not believed it and I would have been like, man, that's the peak of everything. And I remember vividly being there and not enjoying any of it because I wanted more. and I feel quite embarrassed and ashamed of that because I should have enjoyed that moment so much and I never did and I kind of wasted the moment you know and that moment's gone now and so I try now to live with content of what I have you know so even though I have goals and dreams and stuff I try not to constantly chase it or constantly look down on what I have now you have to have a word with yourself like constantly to tell yourself I'm saying this like I'm on a mountain top.
22:16This is like me trying to be the best version of my thoughts. I don't live that every day. Like there's times where, you know, we all, I think, you know, I still feel the beast of wanting inside of me, you know, and I still have that thing of like, I'll look and I'll, you know, like I just got a house and I'm like, yeah, but I want a bigger house. It's like, I've got a fucking house. or I look at shoes sometimes I want them trainers I'm fucking wearing trainers you know what I'm saying like let me enjoy what I have now so even though like I can verbalise it it's still a struggle and it's still something it's a lot harder to live it isn't it yeah I still fight with those feelings every day it's like a constant fight yeah you know that you should have the gratitude yes attitude yeah yeah yeah done there yeah yeah yeah right dude fucking sits and runs see that way it's very nice I don't think there's actually I don't think there's any other word that rhymes with attitude?
23:13Platitude. Latitude. Sorry, I felt I was taking that moment from you there. Sorry, I didn't mean that, man. I didn't mean that.
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24:08From athletic to athletic-ish, Sierra's got it. Chronic migraine is 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting four hours or more. Botox, onabotulinum toxin A, prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine before they start. It's not for those with 14 or fewer headache days a month. It prevents on average 8 to 9 headache days a month versus 6 to 7 for placebo. Prescription Botox is injected by your doctor. Effects of Botox may spread hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms. Allerge your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness can be signs of a life-threatening condition.
24:42Patients with these conditions before injection are at highest risk. Side effects may include allergic reactions, neck and injection site pain, fatigue, and headache. Allergic reactions can include rash, welts, asthma symptoms, and dizziness. Don't receive Botox if there's a skin infection. Tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, including ALS Lou Gehrig's disease, myasthenia gravis or Lambert-Eaton syndrome, and medications, including botulinum toxins, as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. Why wait? Ask your doctor, visit BotoxChronicMigraine.com, or call 1-800-44-BOTOX to learn more.
25:11On the subject of being bothered, guys, we've got a quick-fire exercise for you. Joe, I think if you look in your drawers, you should have some paddles that say bothered or not bothered. When did you go in my drawers? Earlier, mate. Well, don't. Janet put them in there for me, actually. Oh, Janet. Yeah, how did you find Janet? It was all right. She's pleasant, but, you know, first two seconds, she's just banging on about Brexit. So I fucking... Fucking relax. I'm just trying to work here. You're fucking... Get it done now. For the audio listener, you're going to hear Joe and Jamali shout bothered or not bothered.
25:46For the visual listener, you'll also see them hold out a custom-made paddle. So I'll read out a scenario. You'll hit me with bothered or not bothered and give me a little reason why you're bothered or not bothered. So, you're meeting some mates. They're both running 20 minutes late and you're just left there waiting for them. Bothered or not bothered? Have they texted ahead? They have. No one's texted ahead. Are we in London? We are... No, we're not in London. Bothered. London is... I get it. London, you get it. I get it because it's just busy. You're in the tube. You ain't got signal and I can get that.
26:22but if we're in York, I'd be there on time. Joe? Well, it would never happen. What do you mean? Well, my mate... I haven't... I'm always late. Right. So if they're late, then I'm not bothered. Sure, because you can relate to it because you're always late. Yeah. You're on a train, there's someone watching Instagram reels on full blast. Loud. No headphones. Bothered, not bothered. They can eat shit. Fucking hell, you're quick. No headphones. Can I do half and half? You can do half and half. I'll see you out. Because it's the thing, yeah. It is jarring. It is jarring and I do get it. But at the same time, I grew up in London where it feels like, do you know what's happened?
27:07You know the big loudspeakers that are Bluetooth? They're too cheap. Too many people have them that shouldn't have them. You know what I mean? So I just kind of grew up with just sounds, loud sounds. and it's like, I kind of, it kind of doesn't bother me that much. You can hear someone chewing, again, public transport. You can hear them chewing so loudly, you can hear the food bolus, the food ball being formed in their mouth. It's that loud. Bothered, not bothered. Loud chewers. Not bothered. Not bothered about that. Yeah, we live in a free country. I think you're allowed to eat on the train. What if it is a pack of sliced chicken?
27:43They're fine. No, no. And it's a packed tube. Yeah. And the person stood up and you all stood next to them and they open the packet this close to your nose, you know what packed chicken smells like. But the tube smells like piss anyway. So that's the smell I'm worried about is packed chicken, not the piss. Right, bothered, not bothered, HS2, high-speed rail 2. I don't care. What for? No one gives a shit, do they? No, I don't care. What's it for? Was it people trying to come from Birmingham and that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And finally, bothered, not bothered, finding out the full redacted information linking some of the world's most wealthy and powerful people to Jeffrey Epstein.
28:21Bothered or not bothered? Yeah, it's pretty bothering there. Yeah. Yeah, you can't be doing that. Do you know what? I think we're getting the sense that Jumaane probably is more bothered about stuff than we're giving him credit for. Yeah. Yeah. He does care, but only about things that he cares. Yeah, and Epstein files.
28:37Jumaane, you're quite a versatile man. Okay. You know, you're not just about Mr. Fun. Yeah. And comedy, are you? Mm-hmm. You're quite the documentary man. I've done quite a few. Quite a lot. Yeah. You know, the research here, we've got great range. We've done some mad interviews here. Yeah. Extremists. Yeah. Pedo hunters. Yeah. Racists. Snog marry a void. What? Sorry, I said snog marry a void. Inappropriate.
29:07Just came out. I'm so sorry. Well, I'll marry the extremists. Because you know why? They stay dedicated to something. You know what I mean? they don't give up on their thing I don't want me to say that they don't fucking give up do they they're like this is it and I'm fucking going for it mate right well okay you started so you got that finish yeah yeah yeah so you married the extremists married the extremists who are you snogging and who are you avoiding pedo hunters snogged the pedo hunter and I'd avoid the racist sure I think that's a strong line up what's been like the best or the one that you've gone I'm really I'm most proud of that one I think the Nazi one the American Nazi one I'm pretty proud of.
29:47I'm pretty proud of that film. I think that was like the best one we made.
29:54The funnest one, the one where I had a lot of fun making it was the black Israelites because it's like these guys and they were in New York and they believe that the black people are like the original Jews and they think Jesus is coming back to put white people in slavery. And it was just like, it was so bonkers and they would dress up in these like big outfits and they had these big door knockers. And they kind of, but there was a self-awareness to how ridiculous it looked to me. And they had a sense of humor about it all. And it was just fun to make. It was fun to go and to really investigate that and be around them.
30:32And it was interesting. And they were like, even at times it was kind of like they said funny things and, you know. Did they genuinely believe it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They genuinely believe it. yeah they generally it's like a genuine belief in this in this ideology and and yeah yeah and um yeah it was just it was just funny it was as they were just yeah and they said they you know that because even though they have this belief they still like you know they still like to drink and chat shit and you know and because they consider and it was out of all of the groups we did so i did like sort of anti-abortion groups and i did all these different uh ideologies that was the one where I'm, I was, they consider me an Israelite.
31:17Like, I could join them. Like, I couldn't join the Nazis and whatever. So it was kind of like a different dynamic. Do you get a buzz out of making all of these? Is that the right word to use with it? Like, not a buzz, but, there must be a why that you go, I know you said earlier, it's a job, it's your job. Yeah, yeah. No, there's always a choice, isn't there? You can say, no, why do you like doing all these different documentaries? I think I've always been curious and I've always been like, I always kind of want to know more and i and i can't the actual subject doesn't isn't isn't interesting as much to me it's more why and who they are that's more interesting i think the what it is is sensationalism that sells the show but the real film is why they are the way they are and who they are and that that interests me and that gives me a buzz and excitement especially if you sort of you sort of break away a layer of this person who might be closely guarded and um that's interesting to me but like I kind of fell out of love with it for years and I kind of stopped doing it and then I was in Edinburgh I was doing the comedy festival and uh and I was having a really shit festival like I fucking hated that festival I hated that that's like my worst run and I heard about these guys that were in Jedinburgh which is outside of Scotland and if that's a real place yeah yeah yeah and there's three of them and they basically they lived in the forest and they were like a small cult and there were three of them and people in the town fucking hated them right and he thought he was like the new king of scotland and i remember i hired a camera guy and we drove down there we had no like we couldn't message them we had no we had to go and try and find them and and and i had so much fun doing it and i enjoyed it so much it made me realize oh i do did like doing this the reason i didn't like it was from other things which i didn't like you know sort of a lack of creative input which i didn't get with other projects but this one was just solely me and i enjoyed it a lot and i go oh yeah i kind of like talking to people that are that society deems as weird or eccentric or you know crazy like i find that interesting this is the complete opposite of the unbothered yeah unmotivated not really asked about anything yeah yeah yeah yeah this is you're truly bothered you love going out there love meeting all these different people and their stories yeah even though surely you've come across something you've gone fuck this piece of shit yeah yeah of course yeah yeah there's there's people there's people who i've disliked a lot or there's people who i vehemently disagree with and i've met some people who are actually nasty you know because you get some people who are misguided and you get some people and then there's some people out there that are evil you know and they are they're not just you know oh they had a bad childhood so like this now they actually had pieces of shit and even just talking to them and sort of having an open honest dialogue is interesting you know who's evil or close to being sort of evil
34:14I'll say some of the Nazi guys were some of them were proper bad most of them how do you detach yourself from that though in order to concentrate on making this documentary and yet and not have the emotional attachment of fuck you you piece of shit do you know what I mean? Well there's only there's been a few times I remember when I first did the show and most of that season was dealing with a lot of extremists like second season we tried to change it up a bit but the first season was dealing with extremists and a lot of the extremists I was the thing they didn't like and I remember I had a mentality and I thought about it and I said what I want to do or what I have to do is kind of be the conductor of their hate so the viewer can see what they really are.
35:05Because if I sort of go in there and I'm too, you're wrong, number one, they won't open up and I have to let them be comfortable for what they really are, which are racist, which are horrible, which are ignorant. And I kind of have to be the conductor and you kind of have to let it roll off your back a bit. You know, it's not the racist people and all that stuff and the extremists that bother me. It's more of like, some of the sadder stuff I saw, which is the stuff that really sticks with you and is hard to beat there? I think you're a massive onion. Okay. And I mean that in the complimentary way.
35:41Yeah, I think I feel like I fucking stink. No. I burn your eyes. You burn my eyes in a good way. Okay, all right. I don't think we've had a guest on here that's as layered as you are. Yeah, yeah. That has the ability to be funny, take the piss not bothered chilled to then so passionate about serious topics but as passionate about not serious topics either yeah yeah yeah and I could just sit and listen to you for hours I think you know what is yeah in a broader sense yeah there's been times where I remember vividly that I and I can remember the feeling of having say like a breakup you know you remember your first big breakup you're in that moment and you think that's your whole world and that's all it's ever going to be.
36:31And you realize it was just a feeling then. And I remember so many thoughts I had, people I was pissed off with, you know, people that hurt, whatever. And I invested so much time into it and I invested so much of myself into it. And now it doesn't matter. So I think I try, so what looks like I'm just there is I realized that a lot of these things that we invest so much in, there's going to be a time where it's actually going to mean nothing. So I try not to invest all of it in there, you know, and I think it's a wasted time sometimes. But maybe I shouldn't be as laid back about some things. No, I think...
37:11It's definitely affected me. It's definitely affected me work-wise. I think you're great. Yeah, there's a lot of things where I probably should have said, yes, I will do it actually with some vigor and I've gone, now you're doing that shit. And now look at me, I'm fucked. exploring your documentary work shows us that actually you are bothered you're bothered about the big stuff that actually we could probably all take a lesson of like I think we can all agree it was a very good section of the interview
37:38it was definitely it was very good it was I mean that genuinely it's very very good why do you put your hands up like that I mean that that's not it's like I feel like you're at a hold up for your compliments It's like a fucking girlfriend. Hey, we're in a good section, I promise. I promise you, it's really good. It's a big bit. It's very good. It's very good.
38:07We've explored your documentary, and I think it's fair to say that you are bothered about the big stuff. Yeah. But does life have to be that extreme for you to be arsed?
38:20No, I... I think the laid-backness is part of a persona. Right. You know, and I think... It's quite a deep persona. Like, your agent said, yes, he'd love to record the podcast, but it has to be as late in the day as possible. You know, preferably when it's dark. Okay, so you're not a morning person at all. No, you wouldn't have got the best out of me. Right. And, like, I'm honest about that. Like, there's no point in me coming here at nine acting like I'm going to be bushy-tailed do you know what I'm saying but I am now intrigued to see what you are like at nine no it's not good man even though you're probably asleep actually so you'd just be like this but with your eyes shut kind of a bit lower I'd be a bit like yeah I'd mumble a lot what would someone have to do to make you really lose your rag um what really grinds your gears to make me Jamali you fucking swat yeah Fucking piece of shit.
39:20You want to fucking go some or what? Yeah. Hey, shit hat. Yeah, that's my level when you say shit hat. This hat's fucking rocks. Undertaker, bud. You mad? Nothing. Just nothing. Yeah, no. I, yeah, I think my annoyance is from constant. You know? Like if someone's constant, if someone's trying to annoy me, that gets me annoyed. It's not that what they're saying doesn't bother me. It's the fact that they're trying to annoy me. Does that make sense? They're consciously making the effort. Yes, that's what I find annoying. So like, if someone's called you Jamili. Yeah, and you know my name's Jamali.
40:03Do I? Yeah, see, now I'm pissed. I might stool my ass, fuck us.
40:13Jamali, you've been wonderful. I really appreciate your commitment to today's session. But one final exercise I have for you. I think the one thing that makes someone truly bothered is responsibility. You know, having to take care of something that isn't yourself. Is that fair? Yes. You have to really... Oh. I would say no. I don't know. What answer do you want me to say? Because I'll be honest with you, I kind of zoned out. I didn't hear what you were saying.
40:41I'm going to be honest. I kind of zoned out. I was like, shit. I don't know why I was saying yes to. I want you to take some responsibility for something other than yourself. Okay. I want you to worry about something else that's not just scrambled eggs on a pathata. Yeah. Have you got me a cat? A what? A cat. I don't think legally... Oh, you can bring out a kitten in a cupboard. Yeah, that if the kitten had been stuck in my drawer for the last hour or so, I think legally I'm getting in trouble with Peter. No, that's true. I want to give you the gift of a bonsai tree oh shit no way that's so nice of you okay this is going to be dead in a week what?
41:23this will be dead in a week no no no that's sort of the opposite of this whole bit oh no this is going to die no no we've made some real progress here this is proper going to be no we've made some real progress this will never taste water no no Jamali this is proper Jamali it's never going to know the feeling of hydration is it yeah yeah Jamali. You like sunlight, not my gas. It's been nice. This is cool, though. I think someone's excited to commit to some care. Yeah. I need you to look into that plant. Yeah. Look the plant in the leaf. Yep. I want you to repeat after me. Yep. I, Jamali Maddox.
41:59I, Jamali Maddox. Promise to. Commit to look after this plant. Yeah. And how? Just take her away. Talk to the plant. Yeah. And tell them how you're going to look after them. I guess I'll water it a bit. Yeah. Water you a bit and, I don't know, just, you know, treat you like a plant. I don't know. What about a name? What are you going to name the plant? Joe. Joe. Joe. How are you spelling that? J-O-E. Right. Yeah. Are you offended I had to look at the thing first?
42:46Jamali, you've been wonderful. Thank you very much. Thank you for having me. As well as the bonsai plant that I hope you're going to take care of because you've promised to. Yeah. We also give you a badge. Okay. To remember the growth that you've quite clearly shown this whole session. Yep. Jake, what are we going for with the badge? For the first time in the history of the show, we've actually made two badges. Okay. Two badges? Well, it's for you two to choose which one we go with. We've got, am I bothered, no, or am I bothered, yes. So based on the progress you think Jamali's made, what should we go for?
43:20Well, I want to put it to you. Yeah. Have we made any progress? No, probably not. So we're probably going with, am I bothered, no. Yeah. Am I bothered, no. Or I could do both, because I guess I don't mind. Do you know what? You're getting both badges. These are for you. Thank you so much. Wow. I'm with the yes one now. And then when I get out of here, I put the no one on. There you go. Oh, fuck. This is the... Now this, you should have... Now he's bothered. Now someone's bothered. This is something you should have... I want this shit. Jamali Maddox, everybody.
44:00Janet, please come and collect Jamali and his plant that is almost certainly going to die within a week. Thank you. Jamali, you forgot your... plant. Thank you, mate.
44:15If you want to join the doctor's wait list, then please subscribe to our YouTube channel and follow us on Instagram at We'll See You Now Show. Remember, unless it's not clear enough already, I'm not a real doctor. And if you need any professional help, you'll find a link to great support services on our Instagram. I've been Joe Marla, and this has been Joe Marla. We'll see you now. See you next time. Bye-bye. It arrives in a cloud of feathers with a cry to wake the dead. Espolon Tequila. Balanced, delicious, perfect for nights out, nights in, and people who like to drink tequila. Just add ice, lime, and your mouth.
44:54Then hold on time. 100 % agave, 0 % ego. Espolon Tequila. For a real margarita, ride the rooster. Espolon Tequila. 40 % alcohol by volume. 80 proof. Copyright 2026. Compel America, New York, New York. Drink responsibly. This episode is brought to you by ChatGPT. Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons Podcast. Have you guys heard about ChatGPT work? It's the new way to use ChatGPT for bigger multi-step projects. And when you need more than just answers, give ChatGPT work access to your apps and files, and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports.
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From the publisher
Jamali Maddix enters Dr Marler's office for a session designed to test how bothered he really is - but he quickly proves he might be Joe's most challenging patient yet.
The famously unbothered comedian reflects on a childhood spent causing trouble, before diving into his daring documentary work confronting extremists and racists to name a few - moments that reveal a side of Jamali that may in fact be bothered...
The session builds to an exercise where Joe tasks Jamali with taking responsibility for something serious, and, as expected, it doesn't quite go to plan.
Featuring @joemarler17 and @jakebhardwajtv
Follow the show on Instagram: @willseeyounowshow
Joe Marler Will See You Now is a Folding Pocket Production
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