Joe Marler’s Most Unexpected Conversations

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1:59Joe Marler:Joe I want to put this to you I think something that has happened over the course of these episodes is that you have really been able to just get people to open up don't get me wrong we've had a lot of laughs I'm thinking about some of them now but we have had laughs But you really have managed to get people to talk about things that I've not seen them talk about before. And in a way that it just, I don't know, it just feels so natural. And I've also seen a very vulnerable side to you come out as well. I don't know if you've noticed that. Yeah, I didn't. When we started working together all that way back when, I had no idea.

2:41Well, I didn't really have any idea what I was getting into. but I had no idea that it would go as light and dark as it has done and how our patients, guests, clients, whatever we legally have to call them, would actually do when they come into our office. And it was originally, I thought it would be back and forth, a bit of crack, a bit of thing, getting to know them a bit better than other podcasts and other interviews that they've done. and then they get in the room and then you actually just sort of we react off of we don't really have too big an agenda on any of it all we just react off of it and some of the revelations I don't really like using that word but I don't know any other words as you know I've got quite a limited number like Josh Widdicombe where he just opens up so casually about the meds he takes for depression and how normalised that chat became and how comfortable people then end up feeling.

3:47Oh, yeah, come on here, I'll have a laugh, but I'll also tell you some of my most vulnerable moments of my life.

3:54Joe Marler:Jason Fox, hearing some of the things that he's been through. Oh, my God. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. But also, then his ability to sort of snap into finding the light in it and finding the funny in it. I love that, the fact that one minute we're able to open up and talk about the darkest thoughts in our heads, and then the next minute we're asking him to pluck my nose hairs out of me, and it's completely normal because it is normal. He bloody loved doing that, didn't he? He did love doing that. He bloody loved doing that. He was straight on the tweezers. Yeah, shake it in there. What we've done is we've gone through all the episodes.

4:29Joe Marler:There was a lot to choose from, but we've, I think, compiled some of the more vulnerable moments of the podcast, both with you and some of the guests, for everyone at home to sit back and watch. Great work. Yeah. Just a heads up, there's some big, heavy topics discussed in the upcoming compilation. And if you yourself are struggling, then we've got some great links on our Instagram bio for professional help. So look after yourself and enjoy.

5:03Foxy. Let's start at the beginning.

5:07Joe Marler:Thank you. I didn't know I had to do that, sorry. Start at the beginning. Beginning. Let's start with the riskiest thing that you're probably known for, and that was being in the Marines. In the Special Forces, I think, was a bit more riskier for me. So I did 10 years in the Marines, which was, there was no real action seen by myself. Not through choice, just that's the way the cookie crumbled. And because of that, I was getting frustrated, so I decided to put in for my opportunity to do selection, which is the entry exam to get into the Special Forces. Did you miss it? I did, I did. Oh, you did.

5:53Yeah, I did miss it. I left because of mental health. so it was cut short slightly which still is a bit of pill Was there no services available to you to help out with that or was it just not an environment for you to be able to struggle in that and then move forward with it? There was a psychological department within the medical centre on the base that I lived down I knew something was going wrong and I knew something wasn't quite right because I'd lost my mojo for the job I was like bored of it and then I was supposed to be getting ready to go on another tour of duty a thing that I loved absolutely loved and it felt like a dark cloud in the distance and I was like fuck so I thought I need to address this because I'm responsible for people you know I'm supposed to be a ball of fire and you know encourage people to do stuff debrief them we were going doing cool shit and it just wasn't it wasn't I was finding it frustrating and so I was like fuck you know I need to go and I need to go and see something so I went and presented under the cover of darkness, slivered into this fucking department, knocked on the door.

7:02So I'm like in there saying, look, I've lost, you don't know who I am, blah, blah, blah. I've lost, I feel like I've lost my mojo. Can you give me a few words of encouragement so I can get it back and go out the door? And obviously it's not like that. Even though I'd been the person that had gone and presented himself, I didn't buy into the fact that there was an issue to address. And so I didn't engage very well with the help that was there. It was more of a token attempt. I was like, just fucking tell me something that I can then go back out and do it again. And I was like, I ain't got a fucking problem.

7:39I just need to get rid of this feeling. But the ball had been set in motion for my career to end. And so I had to go with it to a certain degree. And then when I left, it really did spiral. And it wasn't fixing itself because I was bullshitting to myself about the fact that there was an issue.

8:00Joe Marler:Did you have a sort of epiphany moment of, if I'm going to sort this, I need to approach the therapy and all that stuff differently? Yeah, so it spiralled out quite a considerable way and I was basically stood on top of a cliff. That was the epiphany moment when I was like, I either launch myself off and that's it, or if I'm going to fucking stop this being an issue, what do I need to do? so the epiphany moment was we stood there like that fucking having an absolute meltdown and being like oh fuck yeah I've been bullshitting to myself thank you for being so open first and foremost like I know this is it is a semi piss take of me being a pseudo psychologist but it is also a really good way of opening up and having a conversation with all our guests and so I appreciate you sharing that even if there is a skeleton with a mohawk on it I'm wishing I know it's not ideal for when you're opening up about this sort of stuff I can't make but I sort of regret the set dressing now you can deal with these things with light and dark like you have to agreed otherwise that's half the issue that's half the battle because if you can't even talk about the darkness because of the feeling that it makes you have you're like you're never going to do it so then you just suffer in silence exactly and the other thing is the bit that gets me is I my mechanism of potential suicide wasn't great because I chose a cliff and I fucking hate heights so it was kind of maybe I wasn't so serious So you were never going to do it I don't know You were never going to do it Yeah, exactly But what made you stay?

9:38For me when I've had my demons and been at my darkest moment it was like I go I'm a worthless piece of shit I'm not going to have any influence or help for anyone else they're all better off without me and it was in that moment that I have actually my kids and my wife will be worse way worse off without me even though I feel like they'd be better off and I couldn't do it to them that was my epiphany I think it's not dissimilar but it was more than not giving up on those people that was the thing I was thinking kind of thinking hang on a minute this is a fucking this is a give up and I'm not I've not done that before you know I've found things difficult before and I've taken a while to get things done and you know whether it's been in the military or anything else you know things don't just happen but this is just me giving up wow right let's get into it where did this never enough originate from like what's it about mate um what serious answer let me just clarify the whole session.

10:49You can make it as serious or as funny as you like. If you want to sit here and me and you talk about masculinity and mental health or whatever, we can do that. If we can sit here and prat about, we can do that. If we do both, we can do that. It's whatever you want it to be, Peter.

11:05Joe Marler:Wow. Both is good though, isn't it?

11:12Joe Marler:Just go off the other eps. Alright, yeah. Yeah, listen, so where did it come from? My mum tried to take her own life when I was 11. Fucking hell. Yeah, I found her and I always had this thing that she would have left me, mum and dad divorced, and I always had this thing that she would have left me and I wasn't enough for her to want to be here. Fucking hell, mate. And I've only really realised that as I've kind of got older and wrote the book, that that's probably why I've always felt like I've never been enough. There's always this wanting to do more for other people because I've never been able to do enough.

11:46I'm always the one amongst all my kind of friends and everything. I'm probably a bit of control freak. Get shit done. If you need something done, I'll do it. You know, I'll do whatever you need me to do. Probably just because, I don't know, some sort of validation, but even if people give you that, I won't believe it. So it's now just in my head. So actually, I'm just not enough for myself. It's probably not even that I'm not enough for other people anymore. Thank you, mate. Yeah. no in all seriousness when we were talking about three minutes ago and you're like oh well I don't know we have to give you the serious answer I think but to then actually give an answer like that I'm like oh do you know it's weird because I don't really know you know it's similar to kind of most men not great at talking about them sort of things but only really in the last couple of years I lost you know the most important person to me a few years ago and and just went completely off the rails and she was kind of always been from a kid like my safety blanket and when you kind of lose that you have to start reflecting on yourself and why you do the things you do and and why you become the person you become but pre that i just i never would have spoken about anything like that and you explore that a lot in your podcast don't you man-made yeah does that come up with a lot of the guests that you have on yours yeah like not being enough that feeling of like imposter like why am i here what am i doing it's it's you know i've I've always said that I've never suffered with mental health.

13:11You know, my mum was bipolar and, you know, I never really understood that. I just thought she didn't want me. I didn't understand that that wasn't her at the time. That was, you know, she wasn't well and she still suffers now. And I think this is the thing with mental health is so many people now, yeah, it's talked about loads, but no one really listens. And I think that's the problem. We're all told to talk, but no one really listens. Because actually, the talking side of stuff, It's good for you to understand yourself, but there isn't a cure for mental health. There's no one-size-fits-all answer to anything.

13:43It's just trying to ensure that you have more good days than bad days. My view on it is that your mental health is the same as your physical health in the sense of you're never always perfect, you're never always bad. Do you know what I mean? It's about finding what things work for you to make you have more good days than bad days. And it's from various degrees. it's difficult because there's so many different things that you know therapy talk to your friends do this and there's so many different other or different avenues for people to go down if they are struggling but it's also can be quite disconcerting for people if they try these things and they still feel like and actually really fundamentally it all comes down to understanding yourself and i'm a complete work in progress with that do you know i mean you know man-made is certainly not about me giving this it's just about hearing someone's story and listening it's not about me giving an answer to anyone because fucking hell if you're going to come to the wedding for advice it ain't me it's about listening and just having that conversation where someone might listen to something and go fuck and understand themselves a little bit better

14:52do you still feel that you have imposter syndrome or experience that feeling now that you're sitting here now that like day to day yes in different ways though i i've i'm blessed that i found my people and i have amazing friendships and relationships in my life i know that i can rely on the fact that even if i feel insecure about how i do what i do whether i'm recording a podcast interview or writing a book i can fall back on the fact that i've done it for x amount of hours and x amount of years yeah and so i have an evidence base that i'm probably okay at it and that's helpful having that level of practical expertise i'd love to be able to tap into that because i haven't got a clue how to get rid of the feeling of never belonging even doing this i'm like how have i managed this this is great fucking wang this one like the 17 years at rugby I was never any good at it I should have never been there

15:54Joe Marler:it's the evidence based approach isn't it looking at the whole history of everything you've done all the things you've done successfully and just thinking well maybe I am good at this yeah but there's another thing in my head that also goes maybe that didn't even happen oh I totally get that I first of all I think it's really beautiful that you shared that oh thanks really thanks and I also think that it's sometimes an amazing thing still to have like clearly you are brilliant at what you do. Clearly you were a brilliant rubber bear. You are like great at this and you were great on the traitors and all of that.

16:29But maybe it's good that you don't fully believe it because it means that you care. And it also means that you are attuned to other people's responses to you. And that's a really beautiful thing to take in the world. And we actually need more of it. So maybe you never want to lose it entirely. It's actually very powerful feeling like you're not fully included sometimes. Thank you. That was really kind of you. I don't know how to deal with that. You didn't look that much, but it was nice. But I do also think there's a part of me that goes, it might be easier for me to continue down that route of not feeling like I belong as a great defence mechanism of like, well, I didn't want to be there anyway.

17:11Yeah. Do you know what I mean? When it does go tits up or it doesn't go well or you are, you know, actually, I'm not very good at that. It's a defence mechanism for me. Well, I wasn't meant to be there anyway. I didn't want to be there. Do you know what I mean? I know exactly what you mean. It's an avoidant attachment. Like you're avoiding being hurt by refusing to open up and be attached to something. Yeah. And I've got insecure attachment where I'm like, just love me, love me, love me. Let me try harder and harder and work harder and do everything. And eventually, that will make me feel safe.

17:49And neither one of them is bad. But I think it's really powerful to know that that's where it comes from. Part of your avoidance is making the joke before other people make it. And I want you to know that you are fundamentally lovable. You are loved. You don't actually have to do anything. You are loved exactly as you are. I know you don't believe that, but I want you to know it.

18:20Thank you. That was kind of you.

18:32Oh, Joe! I don't know how to deal with that. I'm not very good at that either. I know. Because I like to think that, oh, I can handle awkwardness. I can handle silence. You know, I've always based things on making other people feel uncomfortable. But you've just made me feel incredibly uncomfortable. I know, I'm sorry. So I don't know how to deal with that. So I will deal with it in the most mature way I know how to. And go, thank you, Elizabeth. That's really kind of you. Thank you, Jo.

19:09Joe Marler:Nothing brings me more joy than spending time with you, brother. Is that true? Because I was actually at Television Centre the other day, wasn't I? And I texted you to see if you were about. And it took you seven or eight hours to get back to me saying, yeah, I'm here, brother. Where you at? It's funny that you say that, isn't it? Because I remember actually asking you if you wanted to do something with me a while ago. And I texted you, are you free on this date in June? And you never got back. so what's worse seven hours before you get back to a friend or never getting back to a friend let's put it to our lovely team guys give me a cheer if you think it's worse to take seven hours to respond to a text give me a cheer if you think it's worse just to never respond to a text they're not fucking cheering for anything do you know what I'm going to get a new category give me a cheer if you work on the show but don't engage in any sort of vocalised referendums woo yeah I think that's the worst one what the bloody hell's going on over here yes yes I think they're more interested to know I do love you brother who have actually what did you say I said I do love you though brother in what way I just feel like I've really it's been a very special thing to do this but also make probably one of my closest friends in the world in you yeah no one was ready for that were they wow fucking hell you alright with that Can you handle that?

20:36No.

20:36Joe Marler:You can't? No. You can't handle that. No. All right, well, take it. Do what you can with it. I think it's okay to tell someone what you want from them and what I want from you is, I don't know, a little bit of affection, but that's okay. And on that note, I suppose, oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You don't come to this side of the office very often. Wow. Oh, wow. Wow. Do you know what? While I've got you here, on the subject of asking people what you want from them, we'd actually like you, the viewer and listener, to do something as well for us. And I think it's okay to ask for what you want.

21:13Joe Marler:We want you to help us grow this show by liking, by subscribing. Yeah, on YouTube. On YouTube, yeah. And commenting because we've built... At We'll See You Now show. We're doing something here, guys. We're building a community of friends. Oh, we're doing something. We really are doing something. I just wanted you to know that I took on board what you said it's kind of you I struggle with accepting that I struggle with any sort of does it look like I'm sat on his lap? does it? does it look like I'm a ventriloquist dummy? I've really enjoyed getting to know you yeah I've enjoyed getting to know you but that's it and I find it really hard to give myself to people in the fear of being betrayed.

22:05Joe Marler:I'll never betray you. And I want to believe that. Mm-hmm. But I do find it tough to actually do that. I can only prove that to you through what I do, not through what I say. And if that takes time, that takes time. Are you closing your eyes? Because I'm closing mine. Definitely. Okay. All right. Shall we do the guest bit? Let's do the guest bit. Okay, sure. All right.

22:34Joe Marler:Hello! Oi! Hello! Why are you impersonating me? Hello! I'm trying to get your attention. We've got some very serious stuff to say, okay? Sounds ominous. Well, we interrupt this broadcast, this episode, whatever it is, to tell you that we're going on tour. We are, and I'm so excited. We finally get to meet the people that watch and listen to us week in, week out. and, of course, I get to spend more time with you, Jake, outside the office. That's beautiful. Sometimes when you say something heartfelt and genuine, it just knocks me back a little bit into my plant. Don't ruin it, mate. But yes, we're coming to a city near you, which means you've got a decision to make.

23:14Joe Marler:You're going to stay at home and wonder what it would have been like, wonder what life would have been like if you came and saw it. Or do you come out and experience a one-of-a-kind night that will include celebrity guests, games, audience participation, and maybe the odd sing-song or two. Yeah, I think we're going to start getting warmed up now, aren't we?

23:36Island night.

23:38Joe Marler:It is an awesome, there's no Christmas content. I just don't want anyone getting confused about that. It's not a carol concert. Do you have any autumnal songs? All the leaves are brown, leaves are brown in the sky. It's the only autumn song, isn't there? If you say name an autumn song, what else are you going to name? And when you got down on my knees, I began to pray. And when I began to pray. Tickets are available in the episode description now.

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25:34Or a few. Head to Sierra or Sierra.com for the brands you want at the prices that let you do it all. From athletic to athletic-ish, Sierra's got it. When was the last time you cried? Do you know what? I think it was when I misjudged coming down off antidepressants and went too fast. You didn't do the tapering? Well, I'm now back up to 10 milligrams. Really? Yeah. But I was on 20. Yeah. And what is it? I'm on estetilopram. That's what I'm on. Oh, okay. Here we go. Here we go. There we go. What milligrams are you on? I'm on 20. Are you? Yeah. And I've experienced that before where... Yeah. Because it takes a while to build up for it to kick in, doesn't it?