Sue Perkins: Psychedelics and Punching Joe for Therapy

0:00For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tremphaya offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tremphaya is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject Tremphaya, proper training is required. Tremphaya is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them, and liver problems may occur.

0:40Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tremphaya today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Tremfiaradio.com. Every game day you show up for your team. Now it's your time. We go V! We go V! Ask your prescriber about Wegovi, semaglutide injection 2.4 milligrams, a GLP-1. Call 1-833-4WEGOV or visit wegovy.com to view the medication guide and to learn more about Wegovy. Why wait? We. Go. V. Queen Carvania stood haloed by the morning sun. An army hung on her every word.

1:38My champions, I have sold my chariot on Carvana. Twas a lovely SUV, an inexplicably queenly offer. They're even coming to the castle to collect it. Tonight, we feast. An offer you can feast on. Sell your car today on Carvana. Pick up fees, mail by. Rogue is what happens before you tip into criminality. I can think of three very high-profile comedians immediately. With more to come. Always more to come. Knowing me. Knowing Sue. Ah! Cool. This isn't coffee. If you were to improvise a scene now, could you walk him through how that would work? I don't mean to blame you, Bryony. You're amazing with the kids.

2:26Do you think it's our fault? The kids don't want to come with a tramp on the Pouncy Castle because we're the only ones on it. For the final exercise, I would like to give you the gift of my body. Finally. Ah!

2:46Hello, welcome to my office. This is Joe Marler. We'll see you now with me, Dr. Joe Marler. This is the show where I open the minds of celebrities like a soft boiled egg and have a taste of their yokey thoughts. With me, as always, is my trusty research assistant, Jake. Say hello, Jake. Hello, Joe. I know something about you. Sorry. You know something about me. Yeah, sorry. I have something to tell you, and I'm scared to tell you because I feel like I've invaded your privacy quite early on, but I thought I wanted to get it out of the way because I need to ask about it because it's mental. What is this?

3:25So, you know when you came in earlier? Yeah. And you put your headphones down? Your headphones were making a lot of noise, and I was like, oh, I better move them just so that they don't get caught on the mic. Where's this going? And I just was like, they're very loud. So I just sort of raised into my ear and got transformed as if I was like, I guess, in Beauty and the Beast. Yeah. Why is it Beauty and the Beast? Is that ever since we had the Beast on? And then you sort of like, you listen to that walking around, thinking of yourself as Beauty and him as Beast. Just thinking, oh, what a time we had.

4:02What a time we had. That's it. That's next year's pantomime. Beauty and the Beast. Beauty and the Beast. You're beauty and we get the beat. So you listen to classical music when you're coming in? Well, I'm trying to. Does it help you unwind? It can get quite stressful. You know, trying to decompress all the patience that we have in here. What else do you do to relax? I've started colouring. Very nice. Well played. Really great from you. Yeah, I've taken a lot. That's really kind. The amount of effort that you put into maintaining a neutral face after I told you I've just got into colouring. My left knee is going great, Guns.

4:41But it's kind. It's that ADHD knee on the left. It's just going... I recognise the kindness. Great. But I find it really calming. Have you managed to be able to stay within the lines yet? Definitely. I appreciate now that the kindness has shifted somewhat. It's gone now into you're taking the piss out of me territory. And I'm down with that as well. So please keep it coming. Sure. I'm very excited to introduce our guest today. Yeah. She is a superb booking. Right. Just wondering if anyone's got it from that. If you have, very well done. You're in Mensa now. You're in Mensa. I'm interested to see what the next clue is.

5:25It's Sue Perkins. I didn't have another clue. I didn't have another clue. It was basically, get that one clue, you're in Mensa. If you don't, don't worry, we'll crack on with it. Wow. Comedy stalwarts, okay? TV host, adventurer, nerd. Nerd? Oh, yeah, big nerd. Her words, these are not my words, these are her words. She says she likes chess, Lego, gaming, comics, bird watching. What an array of things, you know what I mean? All nerdy traits. She is a mega household name. Yes. What are we going to try and help her with? Well, she has all these hobbies, but I think that's just sort of indicative of just the way that she is in all aspects of her life.

6:03With her hobbies, she's got about a million things going on. With work, she's got a million things going on. I think in her mind she's probably got a million things going on. Yeah. I'm wondering if she has the ability to switch off, to unwind, to relax. To just sit. Yeah. How does she find... How does she switch from the chaos to finding inner peace? I'd be fascinated to know that. Yeah. Hi, Janet. Yes, well, thank you. Yes. No, no, I did, yeah. Cool. Could you send Sue Perkins in, please? Thank you.

6:34Sue Perkins, everybody. Yes! Come on! Hello! Absolutely. Welcome. Why, thank you. How was Janet? Do you know what? Janet's got the most extensive range of milks of anyone I've ever met. She offered me so many different milks, I became bamboozled by it. Were they all milks that are able to be purchased, or did she offer you any other type of milk? Yeah, there was some off-book milk. I wasn't too sure about... She's done this before, hasn't she? She's done it again, hasn't she? Okay, I'll have a word. But you can't milk some of those animals. Well, this is what worries me. This is what worries me.

7:08She's got form, has she? Yes. Who knew you could milk a puppy? For me, they were a little too young to go through what they went through. That's all I'll say. Right. Well, I'll have a word with Janet about that. That's not a problem. But what milk did you go for? Just cow's milk because I was intimidated by her. Okay, fine. And I'm actually dairy intolerant, so this will be an interesting hour. Right. Well, welcome to our office. It's lovely to be here. It's... it's... it's marvellous. Thank you. It's really, yeah. We're not here for the... For the props. For the props. We're here for the nitty gritty.

7:42Let's get into it. Let's do it. A little birdie, also known as Jake, who you've just met, tells me that you're a bit of a nerd. I can be. Is that true? I won't be shamed into it. Not a shame. Celebratory. I will state, he didn't say, oh, she's a nerd. He went, she's a bit of a nerd. I'm a bit of a nerd. I didn't threaten to wedgie you. It wasn't like, I wasn't going to... I wouldn't see that as a threat, Jake. I wouldn't say that. That's my happy space. Anytime you want. You can make a French plait out of that gutter anytime, my friend. Just up it goes. There's no problem. Yeah. I am a bit of a nerd.

8:20Jake is right. Hardcore nerd? What's hardcore? When I think of nerds, I think of computers this close to your face. Dungeons and Dragons. For sure. You know, stuff like that. For sure. It's all great. I think it's much better these days than it was. What, Dungeons and Dragons? Well, no, just nerdiness. Yeah, nerdiness is... I think nerdiness is much more welcome in the world. I think because other personality types have also now been seen and we've seen what happens with those. So the nerd, I would say, is one of the least troublesome personality types. Okay. It doesn't want to attack anyone. We're not going to cause any trouble.

8:57I did a bit of D &D when I was younger. I've done a little bit of it as an adult. D &D? DMD, DMD, Dungeons and Dragons. What the fuck is Dungeons and Dragons? I thought you'd pretend to go into a dungeon and there's dragons there as a punishment and it's just like role-playing in that way. Like, help me, I'm stuck in the dungeon. That's quite high stakes, D &D. You'd need a dungeon, you'd need costumes and you'd need to find a dragon. No nerd's got the money for that. You sit at a table, there's some rules. You could be the dungeon master, you decide and you tell stories, you'd like that. and then you make a world together.

9:34It's basically like just play. It's playing. Well, it's great because... I haven't done it for 20 years. No, no, it's good. So I'm judging Jake. He's gone judging. He's a rugby player. I haven't gone judging. I really enjoy it. I'm judging the fact that actually I left Jake to come up with this session's intake questionnaire, which is based around Dungeons & Dragons. Loosely. Loosely. All right. Sue hasn't played for 20 years. As a way to get to know Sue deeper, Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, okay. Right, let's get into the intake questionnaire then. Full name, please. Susan Elizabeth Perkins. Character class.

10:09Rogue. Rogue. Yeah. Rogue, meaning... Just... Like a live wire. Capricious. Capricious. Capricious. Doesn't necessarily do what it's supposed to do. Doesn't follow the normal form. Anarchist. You said it. I didn't say that. And that's you. It might be, sometimes. Lovable as well. Cheeky and lovable, hopefully. There's never been... It's always a lovable rogue. It's never a sort of unlovable rogue. Yes, rogue is what happens before you tip into criminality. It's that... You know what I mean? On the sliding scale. Oh, great. I can think of three very high-profile comedians immediately. Yeah, I know what you mean.

10:47Yes, yes. With more to come. Always more to come. How would you rate yourself in the following characteristics? Oh, OK. Now, the rating... One to 20. Too much. All right, one to five. One to seven. Perfect. Charisma. How can one judge one's own charisma? That's the most charismatic thing you could have said. That is... That really is, isn't it? That's the way to answer that question. You're a class act. That's a seven. That's a seven. That's a seven. That's a seven. That's a seven. But it's something that one can't... Oh, my God. You can't determine it yourself, otherwise it's a fool's game. Strength.

11:26One. I didn't mean physically. Not just physically. Oh. Okay, strength physically. One. Sure. Weak. Strength emotionally and mentally. Six. Oh, high. Really that high? I think quite high, but I've had to have that as a compensatory mechanism for my physical weakness. I mean, imagine if I was mentally and physically weak. It would be a terrible... Jake's just looking at me. It's not a fun place to be. No, it's not. It's a terrible... Maybe a five. I've overdone it. A five, I think. I think five. Dexterity. Oh, I mean a two. Not flexible. Not flexible at all. Constitution. Not as in America, just...

12:07Or what am I made of? Yeah. Water. Excellent. I would say... About a four. I'm quite reasonably robust. I can answer this one for intelligence. It's a one, isn't it? No, don't be fooled by the glasses, but that's nice of you. I'll take it. It has to be a seven. Okay. This early experience, you know, we've already met before but not in a working environment no we met in a casual fun environment exactly blankety blank it's a casual fun environment wisdom you strike me as someone quite wise i hope so maybe a five yeah you because you've been around that's the nicest way of saying that i'm old i've ever heard you are experienced i've seen things yes sometimes And you're wise.

12:52You're like an owl. I'm like an owl, but I don't shit pellets on the wing. Any more. Not since the court case. Shit pellets on a wing. On the wing, so they're in flight. And I think owls shit pellets through their mouth, but I'll let Jake look that up. Really? Okay. I think so. They shit out their mouths? I think they do. But either way, it's pellets and it's mid-flight. They won't stop and shit. It's always on the go. By the way, in other cultures, they don't think the owl is smart. Western cultures we see as a symbol of wisdom. Why? Why do we think an owl is wise? Because it can judge you at 270 degree angle.

13:31Not with your rugby career. Don't try it, Joey. No, no. It's not that wise. You've scrummed too much, mate, to do the owl. It's not that wise, is it, to turn your head? I mean, I can't do it, but... No, I don't think it's wisdom. I just think it's... That's a good... That was sort of Ibiza dance floor for a second. That was a little bit of that, wasn't it? Just sort of like an early Paul Oakenfell. Maybe we should really dispel this aura that owls have got when we start a campaign of like, fuck the owls. They're just the same. They're as thick as any other bird. Right. Which might be clever, might not be.

14:05But for me, they're quite lazy. They don't hunt in bad weather conditions. I've got a lot to say about owls. What skills are you proficient in? Talking. Oh, yeah, talker. You're a talker. Talking. I'm a talker. I'm an eater. You're also very good at talking about a subject for a minute without repeating yourself. Yeah, I can do that. You're so good at that. It's incredible. That's really nice of you to say. That's something I've been a big fan of for a long time. But you know what, Jake? It's not a transferable skill, mate. I mean, I'd much rather be able to fix things. Do you know about Just a Minute, Joe?

14:37Just a Minute. Yeah. It's a very, very, very famous Radio 4 show that's been going on since the dawn of time. Sure. and the game is you've got to talk about a subject for a minute without repeating yourself without hesitating or deviating from the subject without going off the subject impossible this is sort of my Radio 4 nerdiness I've been a big fan of it for my whole life and Sue is basically like one of the all time greats of the game the all time greats of the game the overlord the overlord of the game oh man that's high praise sorry this isn't part of the show but it is now just to show you how hard it is get a minute on the clock owls your time starts and you can't remember the three rules no repeating no repetition no hesitation no deviation off you go me?

15:23yeah three two one owls go owls okay so that's a big pause but no one would have buzzed in because they're like because immediately in that one word owls we've been taken to the steps to the Mongolian steps or whatever or as my mind was casting images because you just went, owls. I was like, I'm so there. But then nothing else came after that. So now, is it done? No, no, no. What, I've already failed? Well, yeah, you failed because you paused for ages. If you wanted to do it properly, your time would start now. Owls originate from Mongolia and they sit on steps there. Every other step, they see one and they climb it.

16:08And as they're climbing, they use their feet as well as their wings and they put pellets on the wings of aeroplanes, which is remarkably distracting for the pilots. And talking of pilots, there was this pilot idea. Sorry, I'm going to have to buzz in. You've repeated pilot steps, wings. It was quite a lot of repetitions, but you did very well. You did really well. Did you expect today's episode to be so owl-focused? No, I don't think anyone did. I don't think any of us did. All right. Well, thank you for that, Sue. Do you consent to being analysed by someone who's not a real doctor? I do. I will only be analysed by someone who's not a real doctor.

16:43Oh, that didn't take a lot of commitment. No, it's absolutely... You're good. Well, it's great. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for taking part in the intake questionnaire. Let's get into the session then, shall we? Right. Let's smash it.

16:59Sue Perkins. Yes. For quite some time, you've been one of the hardest working people in showbiz. Yeah. But are you doing enough to unwind? No. No. No. Why? Because unwinding is boring. Winding is fun. Okay, unwind. But you need some time to relax, don't you? In order to go again. I guess. You need to recharge. I should, yes. That battery really... It drains. And then you go, well, what do you do to unwind and recharge? I do craft. Like, I'll colour things in, which you like. I will make things. Yeah. I will cook a lot, not baking. I'll cook lots of things. But why do you find it so hard to just, like, sit?

17:45Because sitting is boring. Right. Is that why you're, like, always on the go? Always on the go. To quote here, a full disclosure, unguarded, unboundaried romp through the absolute chaos and madness of your working life. Yes. And that is to quote your... Tour poster. Tour that's coming up. Yeah. The eternal shame of Sue Perkins. There's a lot of shame. A lot of shame. There's a lot of stuff that I unpack to a mostly horrified crowd. Well, I think based off of your answers from the intake questionnaire and the admission that you've just given there, we need to help you learn some calmness and ways to unwind to offset this chaos that is Sue Perkins' working life.

18:31I like that idea. Well, that leads nicely onto our first section of today's session, which is knowing me knowing Sue aha cool this isn't coffee he's not a doctor no knowing me knowing Sue aha you know how do you manage to separate everyday Sue from stand up Sue I don't so you're the same person always always the same person it's exhausting who'd want to be somebody else I mean probably I speak a bit louder and I'm a bit more energetic on stage but I'm completely the same person are you you? you're you all the time no aren't you? because I'm too scared to be me all the time if I'm me all the time that means you're judging me all the time that means the people that go he's a helmet actually hurt me whereas if I give the version of me and then someone goes he's a helmet I have the ability to go oh that's just a version of me or have I made that up in my head and actually I am myself but I tell myself that I'm not myself and I get bad criticism.

19:43Do you know what I mean? I sort of feel if I projected to another sort of person and they said, well, you're a helmet, then I'd be sad because I think, well, why didn't I show you the real me because you'd like that better. But also, I don't know what personality I'd put on instead. But maybe you're just, it's harder for you to show sensitivity because culturally, you know, you've had to be a hard man. Whereas it may come as a surprise to you. I've not had to show brute strength in a situation. No, and you've alluded to that in the questionnaire where you gave yourself a one. A one. A one. Feeble.

20:16And I thought that was quite high, actually.

20:24I want to get into it a little bit more. Sure. Really understand how chaotic your career has been. Yes. Okay, so Jake, Head of Research. and is it true erstwhile lover of Janet? I don't want to I'm just saying that people It's a safe space, Jake Yeah, it's a safe space Jake, all I'm saying is the rumour mill it's established What goes on with me and Janet stays with me and Janet Of course and I just listen, we can cut all that out I just wanted to be honest and say I'd heard some stuff She's a deeply private person Of course and I don't want to to introduce that. Right, anyway, Jake is going to read out some statements.

21:10Oh, God. If either of us have done the thing he's said, I want us to stand up, Sue. If we haven't, I want us to sit down, Sue. Got you. Great. So, first up, I'd just like you to stand up if you've ever tripped on hallucinogenics. Well, this is interesting now. Right, Sue was first. Because Sue, hands up. I did sort of put this one in because I wanted to know a bit about this story. I already knew a bit about it, but I did not know that Joe had. So, Sue, when did you trip on hallucinogenics? I took a payload of mescaline in Bolivia. What's that? So mescaline is the cousin of ayahuasca, basically.

21:55and it was the most dreadful, purging, vomity, wee-wee, explosive, everything experience in my life. But I did come out of it feeling less anxious and very connected to my fellow human being. I left quite a lot of my DNA in the Valley of the Souls, which is where I took it. It's the Valley of the Souls? Valley of the Souls, yeah, in La Paz. Why did you take this in the first place? I'd never taken any Class A drug in my life because I'm too busy for it. Yeah. Not interested in it. And I quite like being in control of my own mind. Anyway, I did this thing for Netflix where I did things that were completely illegal in the UK but legal in South America.

22:38And the trip was supposed to last for eight hours. It lasted for 14 hours. Like, what were you seeing? Were you seeing stuff? Were you experiencing stuff? A bit. So mescaline, you don't see as much as ayahuasca. Ayahuasca is full visuals. was mescaline it's more like a discreet knowing the brief thing that i did see when i was lying down having a good cry i was on a big heart a big warm heart so i was just a little tiny speck on a big warm heart and then out of my hands came these little um sort of multi-colored little ants that connected to the trees and connected to everybody else so i we are all part of the mycelium that's what i learned we're all in it together and for about two months afterwards every time i went into a forest, I went, hello, to the plants, but didn't realise I'd said it.

23:22I said, well, no, alright, really. Alright, it's really weird. My partner was like, what are you doing? I was like, I don't know, just saying hello. Sort of turning to an East End market trader. Alright, how are you doing, Daffodil? Alright, fine. It was sort of, in retrospect, beautiful, but at the time, punishing. And never again. No. I couldn't do it again. I wasn't strong enough. I mean, it really nearly killed me. Have you done mushrooms? Is that your hallucinatory? Yeah. It was at a party. Recently, actually. Was it? Yeah, I've never, because of rugby. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I only dabbled in a bit of weed.

23:59Yeah, that was all I dabbled in. Back in 2013, when I thought my career was over. So I went to Glastonbury and just did a shit ton of weed. Yeah. And it turned out my career wasn't over, so then I spent the next six months paranoid to fuck. Not just because of the weed, but because of... Bebe found out about weed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, you know, I got away with it. And then I retired, and a mate of mine was like, oh, going to this party, I've got some mushrooms. Is that right? I've got some mushrooms. I was like, oh, okay, yeah, cool. I want to try this. Let's have some of that. And did, and it didn't really, it's that moment where it's like, oh, nothing's really happening.

24:32Yeah. Give us some more. That's the point. Let's go again. Nothing's really happening. Give us a bit more. And then all of a sudden, I'm in love with this tree. And I remember so vividly going to the toilet first, standing up and looking at the walls, and they were just all moving. And it felt like I was in a Jim Carrey movie. I don't know why it was a Jim Carrey movie, but the walls were just moving and I felt like Jim Carrey. And then I left there. Like Eternal Sunshine on the Spotless Mind. Have you seen that movie? No. So strange that you thought it was a Jim Carrey movie where the walls are moving, but haven't seen that film.

25:06What? Because the walls do move. Yeah, the walls move in that film. The walls move in it. They're constantly... Are you fucking shitting me? No. No, no, no. It's bizarre that you're so specific by saying you're in a Jim Carrey movie. No way. You've described that film. I swear to you, go and watch it tonight. I swear you've described that film. You've described that film. You're describing a film I've not seen yet. I've not seen it. There's bits where walls just fall away. Fucking hell. Our final sit down stand up. Stand up if you have ever been shot at. You've been shot at? I've been shot at point blank range.