UFC Champion Tom Aspinall: Baddest Man on the Planet?

19:44Joe Marler:I've seen it happen. You've seen it happen? Yeah. Seen it happen. Have you ever considered there was a rugby league player? Yeah. Oh, fuck. I think it was Hoppawati. Yeah. John Hoppawati. John Hoppawati. There was a rugby league player. He got banned actually a couple of times. Yeah, for the finger up the arse. Yeah, I know that one. Because he would tackle his opponent and finger their arse quite aggressively. That's actually a wrestling move. And do you know what it's called? An oil check. It is. I'm not joking. I'm not joking. What do you mean that's a wrestling move? It is. No, no. Which wrestling?

20:19Joe Marler:Right, so if you was... Of the entertainment one or the legit wrestling? No, the legit, like Olympic wrestling. So if you was to go, like, take me down... Yeah, which I could. No, you couldn't. Fair enough. But you do what's called a sprawl. Which, yeah. Yeah. Oh, fuck it. Sprawl! But then... Sorry. You can do, like, the hand over the top. So, like, if I'm sprawling... Reach around. Yeah, so if I'm sprawling on someone, you can do, like, the hand over the top, and that would be called an oil check. But then obviously if you put the fingers up, that's even worse. And the referee will be like, that's just an oil check, that's legit, that's fine.

20:54Joe Marler:No, I mean, I think you'll get told off for that. Oh, right, I thought that was the legit thing, yeah. No, that bit's the oil check. The check bit is the bit that's... Because you think oil check, you'd maybe have a sniff afterwards or something, like just a check. Like what are you checking? Wow! Yeah, so you don't oil check? Not really. Not really! Not really. If I'm losing, anything for it. Yeah, well that's what I mean. Now that we've got a better understanding of MMA, how did you actually get into it? You said you started when you were 10? Yeah, through my dad. My dad was a fighter himself.

21:31What, like a proper, like as MMA? Yep.

21:35Joe Marler:Yep. And it went from there. It was a bit of a natural progression. I liked it when I figured out that people weren't doing a normal job and just fighting people for money. I thought, I want a bit of that. Did he see any signs in you? Like, were you quite an angry kid? No. Were you an aggressive kid? Nothing? No. So you've, like, developed that side of you? No, I'm not angry. Do you have to try and summon some sort of, like, anger when you're fighting? Or is it not about, it's more clinical than that? It's a sport. Yeah. I don't have to be angry. from an observational point of view yeah people think that I'm going to be dead angry but I'm not no no no but from an observational point of view you saying to me I'm not angry yeah I'm not angry and in the way you're saying it is incredibly menacing and it's almost like you don't need anger because you've got psychopathy yeah I think you're looking into it too much I think yeah overthinking it I would say yeah I think you're actually one of the most chilled people we've had on the show.

22:36Joe Marler:Yeah, I don't. More chilled than Eddie Hall. Oh, Eddie Hall, he's an angry man. Yeah. I think I know the answer to this. Do you enjoy hurting someone? No. At all? No. It is literally as clinical as, this is my job. Yes. It's not like a personal... Not at all. Not one bit. Do you enjoy getting hurt? No. Oh. Do you reckon there are fighters out there who do get a bit of a kick out of it. Yes. Really? Yeah, I'm not one of them. But there are, definitely. And do you see that as an advantage to you because it doesn't cloud... I think the thing about MMA is that anybody can do it. It's not restricted.

23:19Joe Marler:I can't do it, mate. Maybe not him. I can't. Maybe not you either. But I mean, people from all backgrounds and all walks of life can do it if they want to. And the interesting thing is different people from different mindsets and backgrounds are able to do it. Sometimes it favours the angry person. Some fighters are extremely nerdy. Where would you sit on the scale? In the middle, I think. Maybe more towards the nerdy side, to be honest. Yeah. I think it's such a technical sport that you have to be tuned into that as well. You can't just be going in just to have a fight with somebody because it's not going to end very well.

23:59Joe Marler:you've got to you've got to be somewhere you know towards the middle I once read that you likened fighting to human chess yes but with dire consequences I said that yeah that's a good quote that's quite a quote well that's fucking why are you so surprised by your own quote because I don't remember saying it but if you say that I said it I'm going to take credit for it well it says that you said it right if that says that I've said it and you say that human chess with dire consequences yep I love that I've fucking done well there, haven't I? I've done great. What does that mean? There's a lot going on in MMA.

24:35Joe Marler:To the untrained eye, it looks like two fellas punching and kicking each other, which is, is. But there's a lot of strategy involved. There's a lot of different stuff, especially with the grappling aspect. It's very human chess-like. Sometimes you've got to set up a move, three moves before you're doing that one particular move. And the consequences are, if you're not onto the three moves before that, you're going to get something broken or punched or elbowed or kicked off, which is not great. So they're the consequences. You are the current heavyweight UFC champion of the world. Yep. What does that actually feel like?

25:15Like you're the best in the world in your weight class. Yeah, pretty good. It's not easy to be the best in the world or something.

25:23Joe Marler:There's a lot of good sports people, a lot of really famous good sports people. There's not many absolute best in the world, so that's pretty good. But I've still got more to do in the sport, I feel. Still got to do a bit more. Still got to solidify myself as the best in the world, you know, do all that stuff. What does that look like? What does solidify in that? What is... Just me like... Retaining it once? Yeah, retaining it. Retaining it twice? I don't know. I don't know. You don't know? I never know. You'll know when you know. I take it one fight at a time. Do you actually feel like you're the best in the world?

25:55Joe Marler:Skill for skill, yes, I do feel like I'm the best in the world, but I'm also aware it's MMA and anything can happen. Fuck it. Imagine feeling like you're the best in the world at something, in the entire world. I don't sit there and think about it all day. Do you know what I mean? I would. I wouldn't do anything else. Just thinking about that.

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26:28Joe Marler:Their AI tools and templates get you your perfect website up and running in no time, which means all the stress of building a website is just taken away. Okay, anyone can do it. Joe could code. I mean, Joe can't code. That's why we use Shopify. Plus, if you come unstuck at any point, Shopify's built-in AI assistant, Sidekick, is there to help you build, troubleshoot and keep you moving. Joe, if you needed to build a website for your own online shop, what's it going to be? Can I let you in on a little secret? I'd love that. I had Shopify set up two years ago, set up my own Shopify shop. So what did you sell?

27:10All my old rugby gear, shirts, signed shirts.

27:15Joe Marler:So people now can go and find your memorabilia, buy it, and it'll be signed. Yeah, all of my own Shopify shop. And it was so easy to do. So I can talk about this situation quite naturally because I already do it. It's just there, ready to go, easy as pie. People look at it, there's your price. So easy to set up. At the start, I was like, how am I going to do this? Maybe I'll just do a car boot. Whereas this, people can be accessing anytime, all the time, and it's easy to set up. And by the way, thanks to Shopify checkout, more customers actually buy, and returning ones can do it in a single click.

27:51Joe Marler:All you need is the idea. Shopify handles the rest. Start your free trial at shopify.to.uk.

28:07To me, Tom, my love of MMA, but my love of you, you're my goat.

28:16Joe Marler:We thought we'd sort of ask you your thoughts on your goats outside of fighting. Okay. I just want to know your both, actually we'll get yours opinions as well, Joe. For example, the goat, the best regional accent, British regional accent. Oh. I like that. Yeah, you hate me? How you doing? Sure. Yeah, fancy I don't like you like that? That can't be the goat accent. That can't be the goat. It can't be the best we have to offer. All right. Here. Here, Tom, where are you two? I quite like that one as well. West country. Here, Tom, you fancy our what mind? See, them ones, you don't hear them too much where I'm from.

28:55Joe Marler:I quite like them. They're good ones. I like them. You fancy it or what? I'll give you a point in the droid cider if you want, or you want a bit of wet one? I like that one. Yeah, fizzy as fuck. Goat meal deal. I don't have meal deals. No, you're a professional athlete. It's just a sandwich, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not big on sandwiches. What? No, I don't really eat them. No, you're just lean protein. I just don't eat sandwiches. I'm not a big fan of bread. What do you... What? It's just not really my... Yeah. Goat swear word. Fuck. Probably. Yeah, it's a classic. Good one. Goat submission hold.

29:27Joe Marler:Oh, crypto crossface. That's a good one. It's a good one. It works actually. It does work. Although it's quite hard to keep their hand in your legs. How'd you do that one, Joe? Well, come on. Well, I don't know if I want to do this. Go on. I don't know, maybe Tom can... Let's have a look. They are tight, them shorts, aren't they? They're fucking really tight. Don't worry about my shorts. Lie down. Oh God. No, come back a bit. Oh fucking hell. Come back a bit. I need a bit of space. You've been quite rough with me. Okay, give me your arm. Put it there. Don't chuck that. Oh, hang on. Move the bin.

30:02Oh. Is this right? It's quite odd. I don't know. Hang on.

30:06Joe Marler:Oh, yeah, that's on. Right, tap out, you piece of shit. Okay. Hang on. Oh, my God. Just have an oil check whilst we're there. Hang on.

30:20Every elite mindset has trade-offs. Like, in order to be the best of the best, there's like a trade-off isn't there like what's the biggest sacrifice that you have to make

30:33Joe Marler:in order to be the best i don't know give me an example well i my sacrifice was spending eight weeks sometimes three months away from the family at a time yeah and also sacrificing my body being fucked later on down the line. Yeah. All in the name of earning coin to play a silly fucking sport. Well, I'd say pretty much all athletes are in the same boat in that respect, aren't they? I think if you're a top-level athlete, your whole drive is you sport, really. Everything else comes secondary, even your old kids and missus come secondary most of the time, which is sad. but it's the reality of it like you say you're putting your especially contact sports you're putting your health on the line aren't you over and over and over and over and over for the sake of some money glory and whatever whatever else you're trying to get but as long as my well my wife was always brilliant and sort of kids sort of just came along with it she was always in support of it all and that always worked and I'd often try and convince myself that I was doing it for them yeah I do that in reality I do that all the time in reality we're not or I wasn't I was doing it for myself I wanted to pursue trying to be the best that I could be and then to make myself feel better and help with the guilt of abandoning them every time I think I'm doing it for you I think you're looking at it on the negative side of things because if you didn't try and fulfil that for yourself then you wouldn't be a good dad a good husband and all that stuff because you'd feel unfulfilled because you wasn't giving it 100%.

32:21Joe Marler:Do you not think? Well, yeah, when you put it like that. So, you're not... If you're going to be there, you give it your all. You're not directly doing it for them to have a good life and a good house and all that, but you're doing it for yourself, which will make you fulfilled to be a better dad and husband. Is that not right? Why does this happen, Jake? We get guests in and then they just fucking flip-reverse it. Here you go, let's play Uno. There's a reverse card. Yeah. Shout it in my face. I like Uno. Uno No Mercy, have you played that? What? Uno No Mercy. It's a step up from Uno. See, I knew there was violence in you.

32:56Joe Marler:No, no, it's not. It doesn't involve violence. I usually play it with kids that are under 10, which are my own. Let me add. I'm not playing it with people's kids.

33:06You mentioned in your intake questionnaire, roughly, you want it to go until about 37.

33:11Joe Marler:Yeah. And you've mentioned it yourself a couple of times. you're like it's not going to go on forever. Yeah. Does the prospect of it not going on forever and the amount that you've put into your sport in terms of your identity, does it scare you at all? Yes. That you go, right I'm 37, 38, I've achieved all that, I've retained the belt a couple of times. That probably scares me more than anything else. When you reach that point. Yeah because I just think it's just like who I am, what am I going to do without it? That's what scares me more. It's like when I wake up and I've not got that, what the fuck do I do all day?

33:49So that's essentially the trade-off as well, isn't it? That's the trade-off. You go, I'm committing 100 % to being the best that I can be in this, and you commit all your time and energy to it, and then when it's over at whatever point it comes over, you're like, ah. What the fuck do I do now? Hang on, maybe I should have worked on trying to work out who I was as well.

34:11Joe Marler:Yeah, well, I'm trying to do that along the way as well. What I do. It's, uh, MMA takes up a lot of my time, so... Yeah, scary. Scary stuff. How did you deal with that change, Joe? Oh, fuck no. Well, no, don't ask me. Really? No, I can't offer any advice on that. But you did Traitors. Would you recommend Traitors doing that? Would I recommend doing that? You did Traitors when you were retired though, didn't you? Yeah. So you started doing more like TV shit when you were retired? I sort of had... that was like a decision I had to make. It was like, I was still in contract. Oh, you were still in contract?

34:43Got offered to go and do the traitors and I sort of had to decide, shall I see out my contract and say no to that or shall I finish halfway through the season and go and do that?

34:53Joe Marler:So when you say I'm retired, your contract's done straight away, is it? Yeah. Right, got it. Yeah, that's done and dusted. Right. So you're a free man. Yeah. But I'm still struggling with that as well. I'm 18 months post-retirement and what you've just said, of the whole identity thing is okay i thought i was all right for the first few months because it was like a long off season or long outside your training camp whatever you're just chilling and then you go what am i doing what am i chasing what what is my purpose what is my goal that i'm for the last 17 years i've been going week to week month to month that's what i'm chasing yeah and then you go, oh, now what?

35:40Joe Marler:Must be tough. I don't know. I'm scared. I think you'll be fine. I think the way you're going about it now and trying to broaden your experiences and putting yourself in really uncomfortable situations and rooms with pseudo-psychologists and his trusted assistants as well as getting yourself out there more and showing people more about you. like your YouTube channel and doing your podcast. Tell us even more about the inner game that you mentioned at the top. The inner game, flying. Sure. Absolutely flying. And you get like big successful people on there and you rummage around in their brains about what made them successful.

36:23Yes. And what traits they have. Sorry, have you just copied this show? And you've made it sound better and you've put it in a better format? Who's your Indian assistant?

36:36Joe Marler:No, it's what... I'll find him honestly the format does not work without did you say an Indian assistant that is mental sure no but it is similar similar to the show just slightly better not significantly better sure significant no this is it's good we had a lot of good guests on which has been good I actually learned a lot from talking to people because predominantly I speak to other cage fighters and it's the You're all of the same sort of... It's the same shit. It's the same shit. We talk about the same stuff. And it was nice to speak to people outside of that and learn about their story and stuff like that.

37:17What is the biggest thing you've learned from all the people you've spoken to on your podcast?

37:25Joe Marler:So, as I said, the podcast is away from MMA. Not a lot of cage fighting talk, surprisingly. No. All these successful people have a similar mindset in all different fields. And I think that, I feel like I suffered a lot, or still do, from like imposter syndrome. And actually talking to other people, that's a very common thing I learned. And just like people pushing through their anxiety and not feeling like they can do it and then winging it and being able to do it, I think that's something that, that was like across the board, to be honest, in all the episodes. And it was good to hear that for everybody.

38:06What do you think you'll miss about being a fighter?

38:13What's the thing you love the most doing it now?

38:18Joe Marler:I like a lot of stuff. I like having a goal and something to work towards. And when you're fighting, the fear of what might happen to you in the fight gives you an unbelievable amount of drive every day. Because if I'm not showing up every day 100 % in the gym and outside the gym, the probability of me getting beat up in front of millions of people is way higher. So when I get up in the morning, it doesn't matter how tired I am, what I feel like, whatever's going on, I know that I have to go to the gym twice a day and fucking give it some, like send it fully in that day. And because I know that in eight weeks or whatever, I'm going to fight somebody in front of millions of people.

39:02And if I don't fully go for it every day,

39:05Joe Marler:I'm going to end up getting beat up really badly. So that gives me a massive drive every day. So without that, I think I'd be struggling. You touched on, you just briefly said about OCD when you moved my thing earlier. Yeah. Do you think that's a big driver in you that you go, you have to tick all those boxes. Why are you picking on my OCD? I thought I didn't pick on it. You're supposed to make light of it. I didn't pick on it. I just observed it. But do you think that helps you? Yes, 100%. tick all those boxes and then you go into a fight having gone there's been no stone unturned here and if I get beat it's because it's not because I haven't done enough to prepare it's because either a technicality either a mistake you make on the day or there's a better fighter out there I do on one hand but the opposite was proved to me massively do you want to hear a story?

40:01Joe Marler:definitely when I won in Madison Square Garden against a Russian fella, big scary gentleman called Sergei Pavlovich. He was 16 and 1, that's his record, with 16 knockouts. Right? Decent. Half decent fighter. Yeah, very good. Very big scary man. And at the time, when he called me for the fight, I was fresh off a stag do. And I was fat. I was out of shape. I'd been, I had a fight like six weeks before then. So I'd been in shape. But then for that six weeks, I was coming down from a fight. So I was partying. I was not living like an athlete. And they called me up for a heavyweight title fight because his opponent pulled out.

40:49Joe Marler:And I'd done none of what I usually do. And then I thought, fuck it, it's my only opportunity. I'm going to have to do it. I'm going to have to do it. And I turned up and I had the best performance that I think I've ever done in my whole career. and no point have you gone why don't you just do it like that again usually my wife says why don't you do it like that yeah and then I think that's a good point but yeah my OCD can't let it just kicks in yeah just kicks in sure just takes over also I don't think your liver if you every time you had a fight organised you go right whose stag do is it this time yeah come on someone put on a stag usually I need to go fight I have to tick every single box and there were no boxes ticked and I probably did my because I was super relaxed.

41:37Joe Marler:I felt like it was a win-win because if I would have lost everyone was expecting me to lose anyway. I can relate to that. Sometimes when I'd arrive to a game really late because the M25 had been fucking murder I'd miss a warm-up and the adrenaline I'd be like there five minutes before kick-off run out plod out and play some of my best rugby. Yeah, it's weird. I don't know. Or half cut I've been out the night before I've got a hangover I'm still pretty fucking steaming. I just don't know. Because you're just so relaxed. That's what I was like. I was just like, oh, fuck it. Everyone thinks I'm going to lose anyway.

42:07Joe Marler:Let's just go and see what happens. Sure. So it's as much in the... I think so. In the brain... I think so. ...as it is in the body. It's got to be.

42:18With this view to adapting after your fighting career, I want to put your ability to adapt into practice with this one final exercise. We've talked a lot about what fighting means to you, and you described it as human chess earlier, didn't you? Apparently. With that in mind, the final exercise, it will not be a game of chess, but instead we'll be playing something with far higher stakes. It is, of course, Twister! Jake will be in control of the board, and I'll be trying to do the impossible. go one-on-one against the UFC champion on the mat and win. You see what we've done there? It'll be like a mat.

43:05You know how we were going to roll on the mat? Yeah, yeah, I know. But it's a different mat. I got it. And I'll fucking do you on it. Yeah, you won't. Maybe a twister, but not... Yeah. Well, we'll see.

43:17Joe Marler:Yeah, all right. What do you mean? All right? All right. All right? Just show me.

43:27Joe Marler:So, the gloves are off, the tweed's certainly off. Well, yeah, mate, I couldn't move in that. Yeah, that's fair enough. Is this all right? Is this all right? Yeah, you both look great. Do I still look like a psych? Huh? Do I still look... Not really, no. You sort of look like... So the illusion's gone, is it? You look like a sort of member of the village people, sort of off-duty. These are tight, aren't they? I have been told that the winner, this is very exciting, will be taking this home. What the heck? I can't even lift it up. That is ridiculous. That belt in your hands is wild. I can't, that, I just, I'm going to need a photo of that.

44:10Joe Marler:But yes. Okay, so nice clean game. I'll spin, you place your limb. That's as easy as that. Joe Marlott, are you ready? It's not about whether I'm ready or not. Tom Aspinall, are you ready? Yep. Now, from what I've learned, the higher ranked player will go second. So, Joe, I'm going to let you, obviously because he's the champion of the world and stuff, that's sort of the highest rank, isn't it? Oh, that counts, does it? Yeah, it counts for something. So, Joe, you're going to have your first move and right foot yellow. Yeah. Tom, you're in. That's your left foot. That's your left foot. Boom. Tom, you're in.

44:48Joe Marler:We've also got a right foot yellow. Yeah. Joe, this is where things get interesting. left hand blue.

44:59Joe Marler:Tom, I've been given a left foot yellow. Okay. Joe. Yeah? Your next move is right foot yellow. You're there, you're there already. Yeah, I'm already there. Tom, you're now right hand green. What? Joe, your next move is right hand green. Why is he not breathing heavy? Oh no, he's up, he's lost. Look, I'm not on. I haven't lost. You thought... Oh, no, no, no. My left foot was never meant to be on the game. Tom, you go right foot red. Who? Joe, you now go left foot red. Eat shit. Come on, Joe. Come on. Shut up, Tom. Breathe into it. Breathe. Please don't lose any of the other footings. Oh, whoa! Oh, whoa!

45:45Joe Marler:He's taken a tumble! The reigning champion, Tom Aspinall. This is for you, sir. That's for you. Thanks, mate. You take that. I'll take it. Look at that. Look at that. Unbelievable stuff. I forgot to put my hands out. Yeah, I saw them. Remember the badge? Sort of... It's a badge. As if he hasn't taken enough from me.

46:13Dignity. Badge for me. Pride. Thanks, Joe. Come on. Tom, champion of the world. Yes. Thank you for coming in today. No problem. With every client, we give them a badge, so they can remember the arc that they've been on in today's session. We've gone with Undisputed Twister Champion.

46:33Joe Marler:Thank you. Thank you. I'll take it. Thank you. We also usually offer a lollipop, but you are a lean, mean fighting machine, so you're not fucking getting one. Are you alright with that? I think I'm going to have to get checked out. Okay. Have you got a doctor with you? Yeah, he's in there. Tom Aspeno everybody!

46:57Thanks. Solid. Solid. Janet will see you out. Right. Thanks Janet. Tom Aspeno everybody! If you would like to join the Doctor's Waiting List, then please subscribe to our YouTube channel or follow us on Instagram, at We'll See You Now Show. Remember, unless it's not clear enough already, I'm not a real doctor. If you need any professional help, there's a link to great support services on our Instagram. I've been Joe Marler and this has been Joe Marler. We'll see you now and I'll see you next time. Bye-bye.