Why Joe Marler Owes EVERYTHING to Richard Osman

11:36Richard Osman:The second time is now. Wow. Yeah.

11:41Joe Marler:Now, I'm assuming the way you've teed that up is that that is...

11:45Richard Osman:She's a huge Jake fan. No, she is a... As am I. She is an enormous Joe Marler fan. Harlequin season ticket holder.

11:54Joe Marler:Really? Yeah. Wow, now we're getting into... Yeah, now, okay, now we're getting into it. Fine. Great. Thank you so much for coming. She's on my side. She's on, yeah. I must have someone in the room on my side. Was Jo your favourite player? Fucking don't turn it into this. Am I allowed to speak? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What she reads. And just so anyone watching this knows, when people come, everyone's allowed to speak. We don't, there's no, there's no sort of totalitarian like sort of thing going on here.

12:21Richard Osman:But the thing is, Jake, in seven years of working with me, she hasn't been allowed to. So I think she was asking me.

12:27Joe Marler:You are genuinely surprised. I'm allowed to speak in front of Sir. Richard, can I speak? He was one of them, absolutely. Oh no, enough. What era are we talking about? I was all for this, but you're here and you couldn't even just lie and say he was. He was one of them. That's lovely. It is anyway. It's not my... lovely. Thank you though. We'll have that after. Occupation. Novelist. Interesting. Just an out and out novelist. All the other stuff, you know, the unbelievable popular podcast you do, all the TV bits.

13:00Richard Osman:You can't be a podcaster as a job. That's insane. You've had a real job. Joe, you need to speak to HMRC immediately.

13:11The definition of a job is you're paid for services you provide.

13:15Joe Marler:I suppose so.

13:16Richard Osman:I just think you have to do a day's work for a day's pay. And you appear not to be doing a day's work. That's what I'm saying. By your own admission. I'm a huge fan, as you know. I love the podcast. No, you're fine.

13:26Joe Marler:Okay, novelist. Okay.

13:28Richard Osman:Yes.

13:29Joe Marler:Sorry, is that news to you? No, it certainly isn't. But I'm intrigued as to why that is the definitive answer. Well, because it's the thing I'm best at.

13:39Richard Osman:And it's the thing I love the most. And yeah. Is it the thing you do the most? Oh my God, yeah. That's why I've had to give up all the Teddy. Because it takes up. Because I try and do a book a year. And if you do that, that's just all your time. I love it. I love it. Honestly, I just adore it.

13:53Joe Marler:What's that then, page a day?

13:57Richard Osman:That's how I should do it. I just typeset it myself. Just a page a day and then glue them in at the end of the day. What did you want to be when you were 15? A policeman, probably. I think is what I wanted to be, or a sports writer. Those were the two things I really wanted to be. A generic sport writer, or was there a sport in particular that you were like, I love this? I love football. I love golf. I love things like darts and snooker and things like that. So yeah, I just love sports, still love sport. And so yeah, that's the thing I would have loved to do.

14:28Joe Marler:And a policeman? Did you have a policeman in your family?

14:30Richard Osman:My granddad was a policeman, yeah. Okay. In Brighton and along that coast. So yeah, I fancied that, solving crimes and stuff.

14:38Joe Marler:I think you would have made a really good CDO.

14:42Richard Osman:A CDO? A custody detention officer. Those are my favorites, when you watch 24 hours on police custody. Oh my God. Because they absolutely don't, they take nothing from anyone. There's nothing.

14:51Joe Marler:You're just here with me for the night. Yeah.

14:53Richard Osman:How are you feeling? You feeling okay? Yeah, I imagine you are stressed. Yeah, you've just been, yeah, you've been arrested for murder. I get it. So you're feeling a little bit stressed. Okay, I just need to tell you, you know, you've been arrested before. You have, yeah, I do recognise you. Yeah, yeah. And like, but this person can be like, like screaming at everyone, like flinging as soon as they talk to the CDO. They're like, yeah, it's John, John Edwards. Yeah. Thank you, John. That's really kind of you. And so you've been arrested for murdering four people. Is that right? Yeah, yeah, that was me, yeah.

15:21Richard Osman:Allegedly. And then off they go again and then they're swinging their arms at people again. I'd love to be a CDO. I think you'd be good. I think you'd struggle now. What do you think?

15:29Joe Marler:Yeah, I don't think you'd be able to go back and...

15:31Richard Osman:I think people would get used to it very quickly. I think there'd be like two seconds of, aren't you the guy from House of Games? I think the crime rates would go up.

15:37Joe Marler:I think they'd be like, I want to get arrested just so I can speak to Richard.

15:41Richard Osman:Can I get my book signed?

15:43Joe Marler:Let's do that. I don't think that, yeah, I can't see many of them saying, House of Games. I just don't think the Venn diagram's there you don't think

15:51Richard Osman:that there's a that offenders are watching House of Games

15:55Joe Marler:I don't think they are I don't think they are is that mad that is such a mental insult that is the worst thing you've ever said to a guest I just don't think people are you said to show it was your baby you came up with it House of Games I love House of Games Richard doesn't sound like it mate you guys I love House of Games I don't want this to be the thing oh my word I love House of Games I'm just saying that the majority of people who are going into custody, I don't think... Why are you looking at Georgia and Tom for help here, mate? I don't think they're watching us again. You're in a conversation with us.

16:25Joe Marler:I don't think they're watching us again.

16:26Richard Osman:You've dug this hole yourself, mate.

16:28Joe Marler:I think if you're out doing crime... You're not sitting there being like, all right, let me get high score and answer smash.

16:35Richard Osman:You don't think? I don't know. I don't think so. Jake, that's absolutely mental. Okay, I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

16:42Joe Marler:I am sorry.

16:44Richard Osman:You just think if you're a murderer, you would never watch a quiz show? You would, but million pound drop.

16:48Joe Marler:You'd be watching that sort of thing.

16:49Richard Osman:Million pound drop. Do you know what I mean?

16:51Joe Marler:Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're talking about people who are hardwired to seek thrills, okay? Not to sort of sit and ponder. And so someone who's... Oh, he's going. Wow. No, no. Let him go. Oh my God. Let him go. No, carry on, Jake. The answer games is very thrilling. I did it with Michael Sheen. It's very good. Oh! Ian, what are you doing? It doesn't sound like you do think it's thrilling. because it sounds like you said that people were seeking a thrill. I just don't think hardened criminals are watching House of Games, okay? Hands up. That's what I'll say.

17:20Richard Osman:What do you want to be when you're 75? Oh, well, still a novelist. I'd love that. I think, yeah, I think a novelist and just doing live shows around the country and just hanging out with people. I like it. I think AI has made it very special to go out and just be amongst people. I like to hear people laughing. That's the thing I really love.

17:41Joe Marler:Go-to quiz name?

17:44Richard Osman:Oh, that's the worst thing in the whole world is the quiz name. It's... I always feel... In the same way, I always feel like I should be good at poker. It feels like it's my skill set and I'm really bad at poker. I feel like I should be good at coming up with quiz names, quiz team names, and I'm not. OK. So it'll be something in the news that week, always.

18:03Joe Marler:Jake, you're good at quizzes. Do you have a go-to quiz day, mate? You host loads. I do host a lot of pub quizzes.

18:10Richard Osman:Is it Criminals Don't Watch House of Games?

18:13Joe Marler:See, genuinely, that would be more interesting to have than what is basically, it's just an epidemic of replacing jizz with quiz and then various body parts. It's quiz on my face, quiz on my back, quiz on my tits, quiz on my toes, quiz wherever you like. I'm sick of it. I've got the quiz team.

18:31Richard Osman:All that stuff, if you can't.

18:33Joe Marler:Cristina Aguilera, Quiz Acabusi, Quizy Rascal, it's enough is enough. Quizlamic State, enough is enough. Wow. Enough is enough.

18:41Richard Osman:Just call yourself Team Seven. The name I always give, just because it annoys Chris Masters, is, and in seventh place with nine points. Oh, that's brilliant. That's lovely. Good. Because then you have to go, and in ninth place with 14 points, it's in seventh place with nine points, or whatever I said. They don't like it.

19:02Joe Marler:Last time you impressed someone with a fact.

19:04Richard Osman:Ah, last time I impressed somebody with a fact. My brother sent me a really great question yesterday, but it's visual. So what are we going to do about that? Nothing we can do. It was like a visual, you have to look at it.

19:20Joe Marler:We're happy to fuck off the audio listeners on this. It's a visual question.

19:24Richard Osman:It's a visual question. You know questions.

19:27Joe Marler:Yeah.

19:29Richard Osman:And you know visual. So you read them with your eyes? Yeah. Jake, come over. Oh, thank you. Are you allowed over?

19:35Joe Marler:Yeah, I am. and so obedient, this moment you said come over, I jumped up like a spaniel. Yes, sir.

19:44So that, what is that?

19:47Joe Marler:What is the above? What is the above? And we've got A-H-R-B-Q-D-W-E-F-L-M-N-S-X-G-I-J-K-O-P-C-T-V-Y-U-Z. Okay. So it's all the letters of the alphabet, but in an unusual order. In an unusual order. what is the above it's going to be spelling out an event or it's going to be spelling out

20:12Richard Osman:ask him quote ask ask ask him interesting you want something there him right is this good

20:20Joe Marler:podcasting we will put this on the screen yeah on the screen oh and and and all the things and i'll tell you at the end what it is um that stumped me richard yeah it's good it stumped me for a

20:30Richard Osman:a little while. I got it in the end.

20:33Joe Marler:Okay, very cryptic. No, don't tell it at the end.

20:35Richard Osman:I'll tell you at the end. Because that's, again, because then people keep listening. Then they'll keep listening. That's brilliant.

20:40Joe Marler:Do you consent to be analysed by someone who's not a real doctor? For sure. Speed at which he said that. That's great. Of course.

20:50Joe Marler:What I've surmised is that you've spent your career reinventing yourself. From TV producer to on-screen talent. So interesting. And to now being the biggest selling adult author of the decade. That's an accolade, isn't it? Yes.

21:06Richard Osman:Yeah. We have to say adult because Julia Donaldson of the Gruffalo sells more. And rightly so. As far as I know, Julia Donaldson is an adult. Oh, no, she is. I see what you mean. Books for adults. Not grown-ups who write books. Not adults who write books. She is an adult. So you're the best-selling grown-up writer.

21:26Joe Marler:And yours aren't like adult books?

21:28Richard Osman:Not adult books, not like Janet's.

21:30Joe Marler:Fine. Erotic novels.

21:32Richard Osman:Yeah. Just essentially the two of you going at it hammer and tongs. Hammer and tong, what a double act. Oh. Which one's hammer, which one's tongs? That's what everyone's asking. Find out next week. Wah wah wah. I think that's what it's called, the novel. I think it's called hammer and tongs.

21:52Joe Marler:You are... You're the master of metamorphosis. What I want to understand... Yes, of course. ...is the secret of these transformations, where you've gone from TV producer to then best-selling adult author not of erotic novels or adult book, you're an adult. Give it time. But I now want to work out maybe what's next.

22:16Richard Osman:Yeah. Okay. So what's the question?

22:18Joe Marler:There's no question.

22:19Richard Osman:Okay, great.

22:20Joe Marler:This is a surmise. Oh, okay. He's doing his surmising. Yes. It's doing really well. Let's start at the beginning with the first of your reinventions. Is it true you became a TV personality by accident?

22:35Richard Osman:Yes, completely by accident.

22:36Joe Marler:And that's not a made-up story?

22:37Richard Osman:That's not a made-up story, no. I was a TV producer for many years. You will get occasionally TV producers who rise above the station and become on-screen talent. I don't know if you know anyone like that. Sickening. we were pitching pointless to the BBC like we'd pitched a million shows before and I always make sure the producers play the presenters in that situation because they know the format they know what can go wrong with it so I played the guy behind the keyboards when we played it through for the BBC they loved the show and they thought they need someone a bit like me to play the role that I played and then someone said well Richard is a bit like himself perhaps Richard could do it And so I remember I sat at my desk and someone came and said, the BBC said, would you do it?

23:25Richard Osman:I thought, well, I guess why not? I had zero interest in doing it. I mean that. There's no ego there at all. So you never wanted to be famous? You never wanted to be on the screen? I had no interest. I loved working in TV. I loved writing. So I loved doing all of those things. But I thought, because, you know, most shows go for one series. And I thought, well, listen, I'll do it. Story for the grandkids. That's interesting. And then it just got bigger and bigger and bigger. and suddenly, yeah, I was like a TV guy.

23:54Joe Marler:Did you notice once you'd made that jump and that decision, then people started treating you differently?

23:59Richard Osman:Yeah. The thing about it is not in my personal life, not in my business life or anything like that, in the way that people suddenly start asking your opinions on things and think they have some importance. And like, you know, we asked about the state of the world and you just think, I'm just doing a TV show. Like I'd run this big company, Enderball, for years and years and years. And, you know, you'd have these conferences and I've never been asked to talk at one of them. The second I was like a co-host on a quiz show, they go, oh my God, you should come do the keynote speech. Like the biggest speech in the whole of television.

24:33Richard Osman:I'd be like, huh, because I'm a guy from a, as you know, fame is a very, very unusual thing. And if you approach it from the right angle, it can bring you lots and lots of lovely things. But it tells you something about the world. It tells you something very interesting about the world and how certain people are, the opportunism of some people. And yeah, I got well-known much, much, much later in life, mid-40s, where I had a good idea about who I was. So I was able to deal with it in interesting ways. And I'd seen loads of people get famous before, so I knew that. But so I found it very, very interesting.

25:10Richard Osman:Do you think that helped? How have you found your newfound fame?

25:13Joe Marler:It has been very strange in the last 12 months. but equally and loads of people go oh you must be so bored of it or you must be so annoyed with it and I go well it's better than someone coming up and calling me a twat or kicking me in the dick

25:26Richard Osman:do you know what I mean it's like it is better than that

25:28Joe Marler:so it's like it's nice it's not like they're coming up and abusing me or anything like that so it's like yeah I mean

25:33Richard Osman:and 95 % of people are lovely yeah

25:35Joe Marler:the binaries that you present as the only options of reality I just always find fascinating it's either love what you do can I have a photo or you're a twat There's no way you can visualise a middle ground, is there? I mean, that sort of sums it up, really. The dick kickers. What, um, did you witness any... Did I witness? These are great. I'm not interested in names or anything like that. It's more examples or behaviour traits. Yes. Any on-screen talent in your days as a producer that made you a little bit more... When you did become on-screen and more famous and recognisable to everyone... For sure.

26:15Joe Marler:that you were like, I don't want to behave like that person, or actually I'd love to behave like that person because they just held themselves with such grace.

26:23Richard Osman:Most people, most people I think are nicer, good experiences than most people. There's one particular person who I won't mention who was a bully, and that I find very, very difficult. Honestly, there was an agent once who was so incredibly rude to someone who worked for me and called him an idiot. something, and he was a big agent. And I rang him the next day. I said, look, you don't ever speak to somebody who works with me like that. Don't ever do it. Here's the guy's email address. I want you to send him an apology. And he never did. Never did. Can you imagine? Like he's rich, this guy. He's successful, had big, big clients.

27:05And he's a researcher, and the researcher didn't

27:08Richard Osman:know which way his client had gone. He said, oh, I think he might have gone that way. And he went that way and came back and goes, he hasn't gone that way, you idiot. And you're like, whoa, okay. I didn't witness it happening, but I heard about it. So it's not, I mean, that sort of stuff. Come on, man, it's TV. Has there been a shift in TV?

27:27Joe Marler:Because you hear of all these horror stories from the past in the 80s, 90s, all that lot. But has there been a big shift now where it's like, you don't have to be a helmet to people in order to make something successful. You don't have to be an arsehole to make a hit. It's like you're better off having a group of people that feel happy, comfortable, excited to be there to get the most out of them.

27:51Richard Osman:I think so. I think it's the generation of comedians who came along, who'd probably now be in their 40s, I guess, who were just incredibly collegiate and nice to each other and nice to people they work with. And the generation above them were less nice to people and less nice to people they work with. I think maybe because there was more, I don't know, there was something about the world they were in. And so yeah, I think there's definitely been a change and also far more women on screen now in panel shows and things like that. And that makes a big difference. But yeah, I think there's been a big change.

28:18Richard Osman:I think I just got in on the tail end of that weird kind of 90s because the 80s I think was insane because everyone who's on TV was so famous and so well paid. And I caught the tail end of that which is interesting. But then you get into the stage where people tend to be much nicer.

28:36Joe Marler:Right, it's time for a special part of the podcast called Could You Survive? Brought to you by the upcoming film release Heart of the Beast in cinemas September 23rd. Jake, let's talk survival. Love to. Joe, I'm very interested to know how you would survive in, say, like a desert situation. Stranded in the desert, how do you think you'd do? Are there any, like, animals around me? Oh, if you can survive long enough to keep walking for two or three days, in this situation, I will allow a camel to appear. Okay, right. So then after the two or three days, I will find this camel, and I will say, hello, camel.

29:20I go, nice to meet you. And he goes, they spit, don't they?

29:25Joe Marler:Yeah, they do. But that's a term of endearment. Like, that's like, oh, nice to meet you and all that. So I go, spit back at him. And then we sort of bond. He gives me like a little ride, but then I go, oh, I'm a little hungry. And then unfortunately, the inevitable has to happen. And you cut to me climbing out of its rib cage, having slept the night in it because the sandstorm had come over. So that's how I'd go about surviving in the desert. What about you? What would be your go-to action to be like, right, how am I going to get out of this? I would survive via the cacti. Most important thing you can do, the cacti are holding a lot of water in them.

30:08Joe Marler:How are you getting the water out of the cacti? I assume, I mean, we've got to have some sort of pen knife in this situation, haven't we? No, I've just said, you're not... There's nothing. You have no knife. I wouldn't survive. I wouldn't survive. I wouldn't survive. In the desert, no, I wouldn't survive at all. Next scenario for you, Joe. Quite simple. you versus 100 geese I've got no knife you've got no knife just the bare hands bare hands but I have clothing you have clothing and I have shoes do I have shoes you've got shoes are they laced or laceless they are laced are you going with this okay I have laces so I would get the laces out of my shoes yes I would tie them together and form a wow around them and I would I would engage in becoming a geese boy.

31:03Joe Marler:Oh. Which is like a cowboy, but with geese. What I thought you were saying was you would have got the shoes as nunchucks. Like you've made like nunchucks. And you're sort of like using one end of the shoe to hold. And the other end of the shoe is just smacking these geese.

31:21Joe Marler:Like that. Now that you've done that. Yeah. Obviously, that's what I should have done. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then finally, imagine I'm raining down the pain. Like it's not just a normal me versus you, I'm raining the pain. How am I surviving that? Probably just giggling. Fine. Do you know what I think would help me with all of those scenarios? Go on. It would be nice to have a little bit of company. And do you know what I'd love to have by my side? And it would help, both from a physical point of view, I think Rufio would have helped me, but also from like an emotional company point of view if I had Rufio if I had Rufio a dog a big black lab that I fell in love with by my side whilst you're on top of me raining down the pain you can get through anything he would just be like A looking at you probably giggling in a dog way as he could same way that I'm giggling but I'm sure if it ever turned nasty and menacing he'd pounce on you Yeah.

32:24Joe Marler:He'd get you off me. So, I'm going to hazard a guess, you're probably excited to see Heart of the Beast. I'm very excited to see Heart of the Beast. New film starring Brad Pitt, and one of the central themes is that compassion and that bond between a man and his dog. Also, it's Brad Pitt, mate. Yeah. Who doesn't want to see Brad Pitt on screen? Exactly. Heart of the Beast starring Brad Pitt and J.K. Simmons is a story of survival that depends on one man and his dog's unbreakable bond. It takes you on an emotional and action-packed journey as we follow James, played by Brad Pitt, and his dog Odin, a loyal and devoted companion, in their fight to overcome unimaginable challenges.

33:05Joe Marler:An epic story of trust, loyalty, brotherhood, sacrifice and unconditional love. Heart of the Beast is in cinemas September 23rd. Book your tickets now.

33:22Jake, you're sort of, you're like a mini version of Richard.

33:26Joe Marler:Sure.

33:27Richard Osman:I mean, isn't everyone?

33:32Joe Marler:You know, everything I've done in the last 12 months that's involved TV or bits and bobs like that, and the people I've met on it have gone round, oh my God, you work with Jake, don't you? I was like, everyone knows you from all your days as a TV producer and all the different bits of it. And I'm like, my God, mate, you've been going for years. and I hadn't heard of you, I hadn't think of it until we were introduced to do this podcast and fell in love with you straight away. Wow. And I was like, this is going to be great fun. And then to see the way you've sort of transitioned to comedian and on-screen talent, but you're sort of following in Richard's footsteps, aren't you?

34:10Joe Marler:Massive footsteps, you've got to follow them. You can't miss them, really. What size are you, Richard? 14. 14. I mean, you're going to follow. Yeah, genuinely, I did mean it when I said earlier, just massive, massive fan. What it is, and I do appreciate what Richard was saying earlier, is that when you get to make and come up with formats and quiz shows and game shows and panel shows, it's just the most fun in the world. And yeah, the reason I got the chance to do some of this stuff was basically, sadly, because they're just not making them as much anymore. So the stuff I was doing on my live nights or whatever was an extension of being able to make a panel show but on stage because they're just not making them anymore.

34:54Joe Marler:It's more fun. It's so fun. It's so fun. Secret behind a TV hit? Huh. I mean, I don't know. What do you mean you don't know?

35:03Richard Osman:Well, because otherwise I would just churn them out. But you did. You churned out pointless. Yeah, but I mean, you know, I've had more flops than hits, for sure. So it's like saying the secret of winning a rugby game. I mean, you know. Well, you score more points than the opposition. Exactly. And that's the secret of a TV format. It is, you have to, it has to have a big hook. It has to make people feel slightly better about themselves. It has to ask a question in the first minute that it answers in the last minute, which is why that code we're going to do right at the end. So it has to have all those things.

35:36Richard Osman:But people have to feel comfortable on that journey. But then on that journey, you have to entertain them. On that journey, they have to be with people in people's company who they want to be with. So that really, you have to take them on a journey. they know there's a safety to it but they know there's a jeopardy to it they know they know something is going to happen they don't know what it is but along the way they have to enjoy being in your company i think that's that's the closest i can get to to defining it what are some of the shows that you were involved in coming up with uh eight out of ten cats if we're going to talk about panel shows a deal or no deal was the that's the only one that i thought oh this is going to be a hit.

36:12Richard Osman:Just from playing it, you're like, oh, this is great. Just so you know, you know, the direction of travel, but it was that, that was a really, really fun one. Yeah. Pointless Million Pound Drop, I was involved in, which I believe, very, very popular in Borstools and in the criminal justice system. Unlike certain shows I could talk about, right? Unlike old in House of Vanilla.

36:37Joe Marler:Oh, no. So, aside from House of Games, what's the worst idea you've ever pitched or been pitched?

36:48Richard Osman:The worst idea I've ever pitched or been pitched? Well, we did a show that was on which was called The 24-Hour Quiz, which is a cross between Big Brother and Who Wants to Be a Millionaire, except much less good than either of those. We had a show called While You Were Sleeping, which is you make people's dreams come true, but while they're asleep. We didn't make this show. Like, you're a huge F1 fan and we wait for you to fall asleep and then David Coulthard comes around to your house and does a selfie with you, but you're asleep so you didn't know it and the next morning we show it to you. That didn't come off for lots and lots of reasons.

37:21Richard Osman:Suck it out.

37:23Joe Marler:Well, there was a time... That's like Michael McIntyre's Midnight Game Show without the consent.

37:27Richard Osman:I did that the other day. Not me. Consent. Not me being, but I helped out on someone else's. It's mental, right? Brilliant. You've done it, right? Yeah. But you were the person whose house they went to. Yes. And you really didn't know. I had no idea whatsoever. But your wife is a poor maker.

37:44Joe Marler:And I'll shit you not, you've probably heard this before. I know that you guys have and the listeners. I, it was a mental time. Everything was going on. I was saying yes to everything. It was great fun but also burnout. And I remember I was struggling with my neck so I took a couple of diazepams before bed a couple more and then said to my Daisy I was like look I'm done with this I need to go and get a real job as you alluded to earlier I need to get a real job I'm sick of this TV stuff it's mental and she'd usually sit up and engage and we'd chat and go through it all and she'd help me she just went okay cool we'll talk about it in the morning and then rolled over I pretty much passed out and she said she was just sat there giggling knowing that McIntyre was coming in in an hour

38:27Richard Osman:well we were

38:28Joe Marler:she was like that

38:31Richard Osman:because we're with the other side of that we're in the production office and you're sitting around there with various other people and you are literally someone getting a text from this person's wife saying he's still awake he's still and you can't get in the car until he's fallen asleep it's like because it's mental it's really good fun you've become like the voice oh yeah of

38:51Joe Marler:entertainment okay in the uk like what i i listen to your podcast and you're like you and marina are just.

38:59Richard Osman:Yeah. Well, I think that, again, I alluded earlier to sometimes if you're in the public eye, they ask your opinion on things, right? You ask your opinion on political things or stuff that's happening. And I always think I'm not qualified to talk about any of those things. Whereas I do think if I'm qualified to talk about anything, it's TV, radio, script stuff. That's the stuff I've done for 30 years. So I'm happy talking about it. And Marina, the same, she's done it. So it's, yeah, we just get together, you know, every Monday morning and talk about the big entertainment stories, talk about big celeb stories.

39:31Richard Osman:But do you feel any pressure with that?

39:33Joe Marler:Because the amount of people that do listen to you and go, well, your word's gospel then. Whatever it is, if Richard and Marina, we've experienced it recently when we said the release date of the trailers.

39:42Richard Osman:We got in such trouble.

39:44Joe Marler:And we got in trouble and we were like, what?

39:45Richard Osman:Neither of us actually know it. We don't know the date, but we were just taking the piss. Oh my God. We did a live The Rest is Entertainment at the Royal Festival Hall and Joe came on as our guest. And by the way, was magnificent. You were so good. And we're talking about the traitors and you threw a date out and we're going, oh my God, that's the date of Celebrity Traitors. It was clearly a joke. The next morning, all the papers full of, oh, by the way, not Joe Marder is given away when Celebrity Traitors is on. Richard Osmond gives away when Celebrity Traitors is on. So I go on just the only things I have on Instagram and on the podcast just said, oh, it was a joke.

40:21Richard Osman:I don't know when it is. And then the next week, all the stories were, Richard Osborne gets the date wrong. It isn't even that date. You think, yeah, I know it's not that date because me and Joe were having a joke. And you think, oh my God, that's an industry, isn't it? The press picking up on those things.

40:35Joe Marler:Does that actually, are you conscious, more conscious of your, what you say now, because you know everything's getting picked up because of how big you've become off the back of it?

40:45Richard Osman:Yeah. It's like I talked about my view that Jack Loudon might be James Bond. And that got picked up over it. He's now like the favourite with the bookies. And I don't know, but I know that he's in the mix. I certainly don't know who's going to be James Bond. No, I like it. Like with the books, like with TV shows, you're in it for the entertainment. You're in it to entertain people. And so the more people who are listening, as long as you're proud of it, as long as you're being yourself, and so long as there's no artifice to it, the more people who listen or read, the better. that's how I've always thought of it the more pressure is when people are not really listening that's when you really get pressure in TV and stuff is when the audience starts tailing off but for the moment I feel like it's stuff I'm allowed to talk about I'm with someone Marina who I really respect and I really like and does something different to me and I feel like it's providing I think people feel entertained by it and they feel better at the end of it than they do at the beginning so I'll take that

41:42Joe Marler:So Richard, having listened to the podcast all the time and having sort of worked a bit in TV as well, we're all very aware of the different pockets of entertainment and media that are struggling for different reasons. We thought we might quick fire you on some thoughts, ideas, plans on how different sections of media could maybe be revitalized.

42:07Richard Osman:I gotcha.

42:08Joe Marler:Does that feel like too much pressure or can we have a go? No, let's do it. The cinema. How do we get people coming back? How do we get people excited about going to the cinema?

42:17Richard Osman:Young people are going to the cinema a lot, especially in the States. They are watching a different generation of film stars. They are not watching the people we think of as film stars. They're just not. So they're coming back. My view is television in the cinema. You've got these big buildings, you've got these great buildings with great seats. Everyone loves TV. Start showing TV in the cinema. If you had a cinema in the middle of various cities that just showed Friends and things like that back to back, and you knew on Monday night it was Friends night, and Tuesday night is Star Trek night, On Wednesday night, it's Succession.

42:47Richard Osman:On Thursday night, it's The Sopranos. It would be packed every single night. You've got a huge screen, you've got the seats, stick a bar at the front, we all go and watch TV together. That's cinemas for you.

42:56Joe Marler:Have you said that out loud already? Yeah. Fuck's sake.

42:59Richard Osman:It's a good idea, right? Someone else is going to do that.

43:01Joe Marler:I thought that was ours.

43:03Richard Osman:Did you do that? Sorry, you thought that this would belong to you because I just said it on your... It doesn't belong to us, Joe. What do you think I signed? What is it you think I signed before I came on?

43:10Joe Marler:Oh, no, no. TV. Yes. Is there sort of like magic fix of the sort of thing people should be commissioning? Or is it a case of just re-evaluating expectations of what TV is in our landscape?

43:21Richard Osman:Yeah, if you're my age, or even your guys' age, we grew up with terrestrial television, a certain amount of channels and things on at a certain time, that has gone. There's still enough people who are 55 and above that it's going to keep going for a little while, but it is not a growth industry in any way whatsoever. We're not going to have just, oh, commission this, commission this, commission that. There'll be a few big shows on the terrestrial broadcasters, but the future is not that. The future is iPlayer having content from BBC, ITV, Channel 4, this big player that can somehow compete with Netflix.

43:51Richard Osman:We have to get all of the UK production stuff together, put it in one place. That's the way that TV is going to last longer than it currently does. But it's not, oh my God, I've had the real glory days of TV and I was very lucky, but it is not. This is, I'm sitting in the studio here with a lovely Tom, who I've worked with as a TV producer for many, many years. This is where it's all happening now. And I think it's good because the barrier to entry is smaller. There's no obstacles. There's less money needed to make content now. And so I love that. So I think terrestrial TV is one thing and we need to look after that industry.

44:27Richard Osman:But I do think the content that's coming up on screens, on podcasts and all this kind of stuff, I just think to me, it's a real net positive.

44:35Joe Marler:Books, is the whole thing of, we need to get people reading more similar to what you're saying about the cinema and actually people are going to the cinema people are reading or is there something that needs to be done or

44:44Richard Osman:could be done to get people reading more you know i've just done a tour for the new book i've been up and down independent bookshops all up and down the country and they're they're booming which is great news uh you know book sales are going up and up and up bookshops are getting bigger and bigger and bigger so the death of reading i absolutely get it and in the world of ai but again you know books are the antidote to ai and this generation growing up seems to really really really hate AI. There's lots of useful things we can do it with, but using it as a creative force, right? It's not something that's useful to anyone.

45:13Richard Osman:Books are the antidote to it. Books are getting bigger and bigger and bigger all around the world. Absolutely, there's lots of schemes where you can get books to kids and use your local library, use your local bookshop and stuff like that. But no, I think books are very, very healthy and I think will continue to be so because they are, if you grow up not having something with the whole of your culture being super quick, super quick, super quick. The human brain hasn't really changed over thousands of years. We still want a bit of meat. We still want something. And books, if you discover books for the first time, you're like, this is insane.

45:47Richard Osman:Wow, the stuff that's in this, after what I've grown up watching and consuming, this is incredible. These emotions, the lives of completely different human beings in a different century and a different part of the world. This is like witchcraft. And I think there's a generation who are understanding that and it's really appealing to them.

46:05Joe Marler:And finally, any thoughts on improving this podcast?

46:10Richard Osman:God, it's such a good question. Aside from the obvious. I think it's great. I think it's really good. I do think it's great. Whoa, whoa, whoa. I don't want... Well, I don't know if I'm ready for this. Yeah, why are you so defensive? What do you think is going to happen?

46:24Joe Marler:You don't think you're ready for Richard's jelly? I'm sorry I don't know what that was firstly there's always going to be shows that do better

46:32Richard Osman:than your show and you as once you accept that that's quite freeing that's incredibly freeing and also if you are ever are number one you will always be number one that's incredibly freeing the only thing you'll always do is do a show you're proud of work with people you like and you know do exactly what you're doing I wouldn't change anything I would put Jake a tiny bit further away. And also just less of the prison stuff. Oh, no.

47:02Joe Marler:I keep thinking you might forget about it. It's never going to happen. It was so... Here's what I think.

47:07Richard Osman:I would not change it. I think this is... When you said you're going to do this podcast, and I knew that Tom was involved as well, I thought, oh, fucking hell, here we go. But it's so great. It's really great. And the two of you are great. And it's so beautifully put together. And that's the beauty of this thing, because it would not have happened on television people would not have allowed it to happen and if it had happened they would have told you exactly what it had to be and you would not been able to muck about and you would not be able to have all these running jokes and you would not be able to do it in the way that you want to do it so uh i think it's great i think carry on keep doing keep doing

47:38Joe Marler:what you're doing that's really kind of you i appreciate that and i haven't actually said this i don't think i've told you this you lot this after traitors happened i asked to meet up with Richard for some advice because it was all kicking off and I was like, I don't know what to, I don't know how to deal with all this. It's your world. Any chance you can, you're the one that got me into it. So you can help me out of it. Thank you. And we met up for lunch. I can't remember the place. It was very posh and lovely though.

48:08Richard Osman:Yeah, you chose.

48:14Joe Marler:And you said to me, I said, oh, what advice? You said, well, ultimately what I took away from it we had a lot of back and forth but you went find something you enjoy doing and with people that you can trust and that understand you or get you or at least give you some leeway to make mistakes and be yourself and then from that that's all you've sort of got to do that's that's what it is and then look at you this lot turned up and i was like I have so much fun I have so much fun doing this comes across and prating about and the how lucky I feel with getting guests like yourself and everyone else on it that we can sit in a room make this with everyone prat about I can call it work and then still have Richard Osman come on and say this isn't work and I go yeah you're right it isn't it isn't work it pays the bills yes but it isn't work because it's so much fun.

49:14Joe Marler:So I'll always be grateful for that. Thank you,

49:22everybody.

49:23Richard Osman:Fall never arrives all at once. First the air, then the light. And slowly the things you love begin to find each other. A jacket meets a dress.

49:33Joe Marler:A hoodie slips beneath a blazer. An old cap finds a new scarf. Because you don't simply step into the season. You create it layer by layer. until it finally feels like fall. Find fall your way at Ross.

49:52Joe Marler:We interrupt this episode to remind you that we are going on tour. Yes, Janet has been hard at work and organized. Not one, not two, not three. I don't have time for this. It's seven shows across the UK. Can't believe it. Seven? Seven. But where are we going? You can't even count to seven. I can. Look, I've got seven fingers. I know. Well, I don't know you saying I've got seven fingers sort of proves that you're mathematically gifted. Okay, right. We've worked the numbers out, but what about the destinations? Where are we going? Let me try and do it in one breath. We're going to Birmingham, New York, Manchester, Bristol, Northampton, Brighton, and London all this autumn.

50:25Joe Marler:Look, Janet's put a lot of work into this tour, and it would genuinely upset her if you didn't buy a ticket. That is, of course, me guilt-tripping you in buying the tickets, which is actually unkind. We want you to want to buy the tickets. We want you to want to buy the tickets, but also we don't want you letting her down. She's been hard at work all year putting this tour together. I just don't want her in a bad mood because no one's come to the shows, OK? I mean, I already have to work with him. He gets quite in a bad mood a lot anyway. Tickets are on sale right now. Just find the link in the episode description.

50:55Joe Marler:And who knows? You might even get to see a little more of Janet in the flesh than you bargained for. I don't think she's up. Is she up for that? Have we got clearance that she's all right with that? You've written that in. So don't now backtrack from it. Unbelievable. I can't work like this.

51:21Joe Marler:Richard, you're the king of daytime TV. You've come up with all that. You're on-screen talent. Shoulder Peak. The what?

51:28Richard Osman:Shoulder Peak, Access Prime. It's not daytime, that kind of six o 'clock thing. You call it shoulder peak. Okay. So you've gone from the chief of the shoulder primes. Okay, you've mixed the two of them up there. Okay, fine. So either shoulder peak or axis prime.

51:41Joe Marler:Shoulder prime is something you find in a butcher. That's very different. You've got the prime shoulder going on. Yeah. Okay. You've become this successful on-screen talent, having been successful off-screen talent. Yeah. Were you a novelist before all of that? Were you writing novels or did you then go, oh, I'm going to jack that all in and become a novelist?

52:00Richard Osman:No, I've always been a writer, is the truth. Everything else was slightly weird. So in my teens, I was writing journalism. In my 20s, I was writing sitcoms. And I've always done joke writing and gag writing and stuff like that. And so I started many novels over the years. I think my novels in my 20s and 30s wouldn't have been particularly good. So I was always waiting, really, just because if you are someone who writes, then writing a novel is kind of the marathon of that. And I got to my kind of late 40s. And I had the idea, this Thursday Metal Club idea. and I thought, okay, maybe this is the one, maybe this is the time I finally finish a novel.

52:33Richard Osman:I had a little bit more time on my hands because the kids had grown up and I was doing a bit less TV. And yeah, so I was just waiting and I'm glad I did wait because I think what's in the books is much better than it would have been, say, 20 years before. But no, I've always blanked a piece of paper and a pen. That's how I've always been. I've always written.

52:51Joe Marler:Is it true that you wrote Thursday Murder Club secretly?

52:54Richard Osman:Yes. And didn't show anyone? I didn't show anyone. No, because... Or where Ingrid? no no you showed no one i showed no one because no one wants to read someone else's novel right if a friend of yours is writing a book you're like oh my god please don't show it to me uh and i didn't want to show it to any publishers or anything like that i just wanted to write it and finish it just so i'd done it just so i could prove to myself i'd done it and i put it in a drawer so many times and gave up on it so many times because i just thought what is this uh but when i finished it i showed it to um juliet who's now my agent and i just said what do we think uh and She loved it.

53:27Richard Osman:And I just, I was still worried about that thing of, oh, but people think of me as a guy from TV, even though I'm not, I never, you know, I never have been. But then she sold it in Germany before she sold it in the UK. And I thought, oh, good, because they don't know who I am. They just read the book. So we sold it in six territories before we sold it in the UK. And I thought, okay, that's okay. That gave me the confidence to think, no, it's a real book. And we sold the film rights in the States before we signed the deal as well. So I thought, oh, okay, that three years was worth it. and it's a proper book.

53:58Richard Osman:I know I'm a writer, but you have to, other people don't necessarily know I am. So that was a nice thing for just my confidence.

54:09Joe Marler:So that was the Thursday Murder Club. Yeah. Nice cover. This is We Chase Shadows. Yeah. Can I offer you some feedback?

54:16Richard Osman:Yes. Do you know what? I would absolutely fucking love that. Honestly, that's the thing I've been lacking. So, just on the title, We Chase Shadows.

54:29Joe Marler:Yes. We Chase Shadows means, like, that doesn't mean that. Okay. You can't ever chase shadows. Like, the whole point of chasing shadows is not achieving it. Like, you'd never get to it. Sorry, I didn't mean to shout. That's why it's a phrase. Yes. What do you mean? It's a phrase because that's what he's trying to say. We're chasing shadows because it's something that we can't do. But we do it anyway. No one says I'm catching shadows because you don't catch shadows.

54:53Richard Osman:You would like the first book in this series. Help me. It was called We Solve Murders. Makes sense. Do you know what I mean? I know what that book's going to be about. Yeah, it's about solving murders. Whereas this, because other people have read the first book, it's the second book so it has a similar vibe to it, but this is We Chase Shadows, which is because there's a chase all around the world in this book. The shadows, because we have shadowy figures as well, and so they do chase shadows. That's the point. You chase rumours and hints, And when you're trying to work out who's murdered someone, all you're doing is chasing shadows.

55:23Richard Osman:And that's what they do across the world. So the first book is We Solved Murder. So we've absolutely set that in stone. You've got that. That's safe. That's in the bank. You can take that home. And now we kind of go, huh, maybe we can be a little bit less literal. How's that for you? It's no hammer and tongs. I get that because I know what I'm getting there. Two guys absolutely just going to town on each other. I get it. I know what that is from the start.

55:50Joe Marler:It's the emphasis on going to town that you do. Going to town on each other.

55:55Richard Osman:It's not me doing it, mate. Yeah. I honestly did not think... Yeah.

56:02Joe Marler:A podcast with Richard Osman would end up like this.

56:06Richard Osman:Yeah, I know.

56:08Joe Marler:Whoa, whoa, whoa. I did not slag off your title. No, I know you didn't. I offered feedback.

56:12Richard Osman:You did, yeah. No, but you know what I mean? So it is a chase and it is about shadowy people.

56:16Joe Marler:It's out now.

56:17Richard Osman:It's out now. It's got a lovely front cover. I'm very, very proud of it. It's my other series away from Thursday Murder Club. This is like an ex cop who lives in the New Forest, doesn't ever want to leave the New Forest. Does he ride a horse? He doesn't actually. He's got a cat, he's got a pub quiz team, he's got his mates who he has lunch with every other pub every day, never wants to go anywhere. He's got his daughter-in-law, Amy, who's a bodyguard for billionaires, who always going around the world. And in the first book, she's in trouble. He has to go, oh, God, now I've got to get on a private jet and fly over to St Lucia to help my daughter-in-law.

56:48Richard Osman:And her client is a woman called Rosie D 'Antonio, who's the world's best-selling novelist. And the three of them, at the end of the first book, set up this detective agency, and this is their first case.

56:57Joe Marler:You've got me.

56:58Richard Osman:Yeah. It's fun, right?

56:59Joe Marler:I'm in. Yeah. It's fun. I'm in. Yeah.

57:02Richard Osman:What are the chances of me being able to read that to my 10-year-old daughter? Do you know what? With Thursday Murder Club, a lot of... 12, 13, I would say, is a starting point. Yeah. Like, you know, I think lots of people started reading Agatha Christie at that sort of age. And there's no, I never swear I'm not interested in that particularly. Yeah, I think it's kind of funny. And, you know, there's sad bits in it. And there's, you know, the stuff like that, but you can, a couple of years, maybe. Okay.

57:27Joe Marler:How come you are so interested in murders?

57:31Richard Osman:I think that, you know, my grandfather was a police officer. So I've always been interested in criminality. And what I mean, I'm interested in Britain and the world and people, I'm interested people is a thing I'm really interested in. What a murder mystery gives you, like a TV format, funnily enough, and I've always read them, is look, at the beginning of this, I'm going to kill someone. At the end, we'll find out who did it. Okay, so that's our contract. And in between those two places, I can take you anywhere. I can talk about whatever I want to talk about. I have whatever characters I want.

57:59Richard Osman:I can talk about what I think about the world without it ever being a lecture because my characters are doing it. I can make you laugh. Hopefully, I'll make you cry. and at the end there's a satisfying puzzle is solved and that that I love writing crime fiction is so incredibly diverse because so long as you do that that you know you start here we end there you tell whatever story you want to whatever story you want about whatever era you want about whatever part of the country you want but anywhere in the world about whatever people you want and you know that's why you know it's it's the biggest genre in the world I don't know if you know if

58:31Joe Marler:I don't even think you know you've done this but that's exactly how you describe the secret to a hit tv you did know you did that yeah fine okay interesting didn't know but that's exactly what how that yeah yeah it's exactly that we've already said to you you're the biggest selling adult author of the decade yes sorry to bring that back up again um but do you look at that and go i'm really proud of that yes you are really proud of yeah i am really proud of it um and it's

59:00Richard Osman:look you you take these things you know with a slightly with a pinch of salt but I love the books I'm proud of the books the books represent who I am they're sort of the culmination of a lifetime of the way I've thought about the world and about people and what I think is right and what I think is wrong and humor and all of that stuff and it's all in there and it's the thing I'm proudest of so for me the more people that read it the happier I am because it's not something I've compromised for a single second on it's not something I've there's not an ounce of cynicism in any of it. It is absolute limit of what it is that I want to do and what I want to show of myself.

59:36Richard Osman:It's all in there. And so, yeah, the more people who read it, the better. So I'm proud of the books. The sales are lovely because I want more and more people to read it. But the thing I'm proud of is having sat down and written the books and year after year, just keep writing these books and these characters and telling stories.

59:56Joe Marler:Richard. Yeah. We've spent this session exploring the extent of your metamorphosis. Yes. And we've spent a lot of time exploring that. But there's one last thing I want to help you with. Did we? It's subjective, isn't it? It's always subjective.

1:00:09Richard Osman:You want to help me with something?

1:00:11Joe Marler:Yeah, I want to help you with what's next. Yes. Jake, how are we going to do this? So this office doubles up as many things. Part psychiatry, part psychology, part whatever Janet's up to, but also in part, a careers advisor... A careers advice office. Okay. Do you know those flowcharts that they do at school to try and work out exactly what career you might end up with? We've sort of designed one for you to find out exactly where you could end up. Okay. Joe's got some questions. If you could answer them, it should lead us to... Well, generally, we've got a few here we could end up at. We'll find out what it is.

1:00:46Joe Marler:Would you be prepared to chase something down the street as part of your job? No. Okay. No. Okay. Would you be happy if your work clothes routinely got covered in somebody else's body fluids? I would not be happy. Okay. Would you be happy if your job involved occasionally being bitten?

1:01:03Richard Osman:I would not be happy. Would you rather be respected or liked? Oh, that's a good question, isn't it? Would I rather be respected or liked? Liked. Interesting. I'd like both. Ideally. No, no, I'm not asking for both. You can't be hammer and tongs.

1:01:24Joe Marler:Could you make a living from being charming?

1:01:27Richard Osman:I think he already is. Could I make a living from being charming?

1:01:30Joe Marler:Yeah, like, would you be happy making a living from being charming? Oh, would I be happy?

1:01:32Richard Osman:Yeah, for sure. For sure.

1:01:37Joe Marler:Do you think you'd be good at keeping a secret? I could answer for you.

1:01:43Richard Osman:I'd be a bit no.

1:01:44Joe Marler:It's a no. Could you make small talk with a stranger for an extended period of time?

1:01:49Richard Osman:Oh, yeah. That's one of my favourite things. loves that

1:01:53Joe Marler:could you spend a day working with someone you absolutely hated no

1:01:58Richard Osman:why do you think I quit pointless that's a joke that is a joke I love Xander I genuinely love Xander no I couldn't I'm really bad with people I don't like it takes a while I can't I cannot do it do you tell them that you don't like them no but I disengage very very quickly I can't do it and then finally

1:02:19Joe Marler:do you feel comfortable holding a whistle at work?

1:02:24Richard Osman:I mean, I don't feel uncomfortable. I guess I don't feel uncomfortable.

1:02:28Joe Marler:Okay, right. Shall we put that into the... Yeah, it was all sort of pointing one way, but then that whistle chat really pointed to PE teacher, so I'm not really sure what that... We've got... He's sociable, he's resilient, he's comfortable dealing with a wide range of characters. We think you, Richard, are best suited to be the nation's pub landlord. Your local friendly pub landlord. Everyone's welcome. You make everyone feel at home. You're charming. Yeah, we're going to go with pub landlord. That is your new career job we're giving you there.

1:02:59Richard Osman:My granddad, the only piece of life advice he ever gave me, as I say, he was a police officer. He said, if you ever call to a fight in a pub, make sure you're second through the door. Good. It's good advice.

1:03:10Joe Marler:What if the fight's outside?

1:03:13Richard Osman:If you're ever called to a fight in a pub. It was all there. All the information was there.

1:03:17Joe Marler:It's got you there in the small print.

1:03:21Joe Marler:That is the end of our session.

1:03:23Richard Osman:Excellent. Should I tell you the answer to the code? Yes. Obviously, yes, Joe. Yeah, let's put it back on the screen. When you say them out loud, that is the letters of the alphabet in alphabetical order.

1:03:36Joe Marler:What?

1:03:40Richard Osman:It may change. If you say H, then it's not. But if we say H, So A, H, R, B, and so on. So when you say them out loud, it's the alphabet in alphabetical order, ending with Z, which begins with Z, of course. Lots of them beginning with E there, as you can see. L, M, N in that order. Do you see? C right at the bottom because it starts with an S.

1:04:03Joe Marler:It's like you're talking us through the board on pointless again. That's fantastic.

1:04:08Richard Osman:Absolutely fantastic. Yeah, it's good, isn't it? I mean, it's annoying. It's really good. to get it. It took me a long time to get it. That's really, really good. A, B, E, C, D, yeah.

1:04:17Joe Marler:That, thank you so much. That is the end of your session.

1:04:20Richard Osman:You know what? It was terrific fun. Thank you. Have you learned anything about yourself in this process? Oh my God, yes. Yes. Mainly about the, you know, people who've been convicted and how much they like certain shows I do. It's been quite a running theme. That's useful knowledge.

1:04:34Joe Marler:Can I retract that bit?

1:04:35Richard Osman:Sure, go on.

1:04:36Joe Marler:Yeah. I retract the idea that prisoners don't watch House of Games. So you think they do watch it now i think you're fucking brilliant you've helped me so much i've told you this before uh you literally did change my life by going and making that call to to the booker for me and uh you're great fun you're genuine you're not what loads of people say about you Honestly, you've been brilliant. I love your work. I promise you, I can promise you this. I will endeavour... Yeah, start it. ...to try and start reading again. Because I think it is going to help me. Yeah, it's important. You've been brilliant.

1:05:22Richard Osman:Thank you so much. Thank you. Thanks, everybody.

1:05:24Joe Marler:Before you leave...

1:05:25Richard Osman:Yeah.

1:05:26Joe Marler:You don't go away empty-handed. No way. You get a lollipop. No way, that's great. You help yourself to a lollipop. And you get a badge. Yes. And what are we going with the badge options? As our master of metamorphosis, we have given you this badge. I'm a beautiful butterfly, which you are, Richard. Aw. Huge. That is yours to take home if you so wish.

1:05:44Richard Osman:That badge is going to look really, really tiny on him. Thank you so much. MC Tongs, thank you. MC Hammer, thank you.

1:05:51Joe Marler:You've been absolutely brilliant. Thank you so much. Richard Osmond, everybody! Thank you.

1:06:01Joe Marler:If you want to join the Doctor's Waitlist, then please subscribe to our YouTube channel and follow us on Instagram at we'll see you now show. Remember, unless it's not clear enough already, I'm not a real doctor. If you need any professional help, you'll find a link to great support services on our Instagram. He's been Jake Bardoj, I've been Joe Marla, and this has been Joe Marla. We'll see you now. See you next time. Bye-bye.

1:06:27Richard Osman:Fall never arrives all at once. First the air, then the light, and slowly the things you love begin to find each other.

1:06:36Joe Marler:A jacket meets a dress. A hoodie slips beneath a blazer. An old cap finds a new scarf. Because you don't simply step into the season. You create it layer by layer until it finally feels like fall.

1:06:50Richard Osman:Find fall your way at Ross.