S07.EP02 - PR Isn’t Promotion. It’s How Brand Strategy Becomes Real with Nikkia Adolphe

0:00The reason why PR is often the first thing to go when you think about budget cuts is because they can't map it to true ROI. I think in the future, I would imagine that AI is really going to help really append that and really make PR more sticky. Hello and welcome to Just Branding, the only podcast dedicated to helping designers and entrepreneurs grow brands. Here are your hosts, Jacob Cass and Matt Davies.

0:37All right, before we jump in, if you're serious about mastering branding and building a thriving creative business, the Brand Builders Alliance is for you. Inside, you'll get live masterclasses, mentorship from our eight resident coaches, a stacked resource vault, and a global network of brand builders who actually get it. If you're done winging it alone and are ready to scale with structure, support, and serious momentum, head over to joinbba.com and get on the wait list. That's joinbba.com. Hello and welcome to Just Branding. Today we're joined by Nikia Adolfo, Chief Innovation Officer at Brand Savior.

1:20Nikia sits at the pointy end of brand strategy, where positioning meets reality and where ideas earn attention or disappear quietly. With over 15 years leading communications and PR strategy for global brands like Amazon and Meta, you may have heard them, she's helped companies turn internal brand thinking into external proof. Not just what brands say about themselves, but what gets seen, shared and trusted in public. And in this episode, we're going to dig into that part of branding that doesn't always get the airtime it deserves. The role of PR in making brand strategy actually stick. We'll learn why great strategy without visibility falls flat and why reputation is built in public and not in decks.

2:08So if you've ever wondered why some brands feel real while others sound just good on paper, this conversation is for you. So, Nakia, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. That was one hell of an intro. I feel so special. Thank you. I'm so excited to be here with you guys. You are special. And this is our first episode on PR. So we are going for a treat. But we do like to start off with definitions, just because everyone comes from a different background, different experience. So we'd love to get aligned on language. And when you say brand, what does that actually mean to you in practice?

2:45And then we can hop into PR. Yeah, I mean, well, brand really sits at the intersection of identity and narrative, right? Like knowing exactly what your brand is, your DNA, what you stand for, that's what brand is, right? And then when you think about sort of the comms, the communications piece, that touches a lot of different functions, including PR. So there's a big misconception that sort of PR kind of lives on its own or communication is here. But comms actually serves as that full function. And you have PR, you have thought leadership, you have reputation, you have crisis comms. And so there's a lot of different facets of that.

3:27And when you break down sort of communications, it's really thinking about sort of that storytelling element. So while you have that brand as your DNA and identity, it's really the communication really serves as how you really communicate that storytelling value to your audience. And so that's sort of the most simplistic way in describing it. But, you know, I'm such a big believer in nothing operates in silos. And so often you'll notice that a lot of marketing and communications functions operate in silo. And so we're always sort of a big advocate in making sure that, you know, marketing is talking to comms.

4:05Comms is talking to sales. You know, the storytelling piece and that narrative piece is pulling through consistently across those different business functions. And so, you know, it's important that you're always sounding, you know, one band, one sound. And all of those different, you know, arenas really operate in that sense where, again, that brand is sort of that identity, that DNA, who you are, what you stand for. But the comms function is really about sort of like how that storytelling and what you really want your audience to know. Thank you. And when you talk about PR, how do you define it beyond like press releases or media hits?

4:43Yes. Well, I mean, in let's say in sort of the marketing funnel, right? Like you you have sort of the the top where there is that brand awareness and that's where comms and PR really sits. Right. There's a means to converting, you know, your customer down that funnel. Right. So, of course, you're going further down that funnel. You have sort of the digital marketing aspects you have, you know, those where you're trying to really convert that customer and meet them along that journey. And so by definition, I would say sort of that PR and comms piece always sits at sort of that top of the funnel where brand awareness is so important.

5:19And oftentimes than not, you know, PR isn't really shown as sort of bringing in true ROI, which is unfortunate, but it's sort of, you know, something that has lived on across organizations. I've been in sort of the space for 20 years. I'm aging myself now. But that's one of the things that I have always seen since being a part in entering in the industry, sort of that PR and comms function, you know, does operate as sort of that brand awareness. But it's so important to make sure that it's a continuum in a conversation of storytelling to meet that, to bring that customer down the funnel. So, again, going back to like having that holistic, like all of these sort of departments talking to one another is so essential and to really keep that engine going.

6:07it's like a bit of an investment in the future of the of the brand's reputation right so because as you say absolutely from what you've said it's it's not something that you would convert someone straight into a sale off the back of reading a an article or something out there it's more top of the funnel awareness story telling that side of things exactly and and and that's again that top of the funnel is where you know you're really getting that sort of initial interest from that potential customer to then think about other areas where you can meet them further down the funnel. So it's all, there's all an art and science to it, I like to think, and really building that sort of reputation again at that top of the funnel.

6:49So where do you see them most overlap, like brand and PR? And where do you see them kind of like drift apart? Well, I mean, I think, you know, when I think about sort of like just the places that I've been, I mean, I've been in rooms with large organizations, like you mentioned, where the strategy is incredibly sharp. I've worked closely with both founders and nonprofit leaders. And I think no matter what it is, I think I noticed the same thing, like a lot of brands actually know who they are, but the outside world doesn't. And so I think that's where sort of the brand strategy has to connect with the comms piece.

7:27And I think one of the things that we think about when you talk about brand strategy is I think it's important to name that it's not just about defining who you are today, you know, what that messaging and positioning is, but where do you want to be as a brand five years from now? And that's where sort of the PR and comms functions comes in, right? At Brand Saver, which I manage, I'm a founding partner there. Our brand messaging workshops are very intentional because we really liked for our clients and the teams that we serve to kind of slow down and really get aligned on like what that looks like.

8:02And you're probably familiar with sort of a SWOT analysis, but we like to call, we do what we call a SOAR analysis. It's very much more forward looking. And again, going back to, okay, what you are today as a brand is great, but where do you want to be? That's sort of the storytelling piece. And so that SOAR stands for what your current strengths are. Where are some of the future opportunities? Where do you aspire to be? Where are those results? And those conversations really help leaders articulate what they're becoming, not just who they've been. Right. And I think it's so important, especially in a world of like just misinformation, but also a lot of noise, really being able to kind of pin down and understand where you are aspiring to be.

8:43You may have a team that's really strong operationally, right? But the opportunity is for them to show up as a thought leader in their space. So are there white spaces for us to position that client on global stages or even stages that have more of a trade focus? And so that's where sort of the aspiration to kind of really influence, you know, maybe global conversations. That's where sort of that PR and comms really acts as a conduit to that brand strategy and moving it forward. I definitely see that a lot of brands, a lot of business leaders, they tend to focus on the short term, right? On very easy ROI, you know, in terms of like leads, sales, et cetera.

9:27and that's sadly I think often what they are judged on right which is which is fair enough right you know businesses have got to make money they've got to sell things but what you're talking about there is having a view beyond this quarter beyond this financial year five years time at high level narrative relevance of the brand is placed in the marketplace defense against competition all that good stuff that is big strategic thinking and then you can do your job brilliantly um i was going to ask a bit of a curveball question if i may because this is this is my role just caused absolute havoc the question i had was was you know like what what sort of metrics would you advise like an average kind of company thinking about pr like what should they be thinking about in terms of measurability because it won't be leads it won't be sales revenue for this quarter but what might it look like yeah that's a great question matt because i think you know, for quite some time, the PR and comms industry kind of relied on vanity metrics, right?

10:28You think about clicks or even impressions of, let's say, a media outlet that they were featured in. But, you know, as technology has advanced, as things have really sort of accelerated, I think there is a lot of sort of nuances when you think about how you integrate across those other marketing functions, right? And so a good example of that is when you actually get like a media coverage for, let's say a trade outlet, is there a way for you to include backlinks within that particular coverage? So that way you're able to track again, right? Like that then really shows and serves like, okay, if you have sort of a particular audience that you're looking at, that you're serving, that clicks on that, then you can automatically see from your website analytics where that came from, right?

11:19And so that's a clear indication of ROI, right? Another sort of great metric to look at is sort of share a voice, right? Like, again, going back to the holistic, bigger picture, this is long term, not short term. Who are you sort of looking at in terms of your competitor set in the industry? And how are they showing up on different topics and themes that they care about as well as you. So there's different metrics and tools that you utilize to see how you're mapping with your share of voice. But I think it really makes a big difference in understanding how the market is responding and how you're really showing up in sort of those different conversations, especially the ones that you care about most in reaching your customer.

12:04And so I would say those are two key ones, sort of that backlink. I think, I mean, it's been around for quite some time. But then you also think about generative AI now, right? Like that's becoming a big thing where it also is correlated with the metrics of PR and comms and how you're showing up as well from a storytelling standpoint, because AI is pulling directly from those searches and those searches are those news aggregates, right? So these are all different components that I think really help to kind of build more of that that that sort of ROI as it relates to the importance of PR and comms or you think about it as a as a business function in your organization I think that's so interesting I think what you've just pointed out there around the the AI is is an interesting kind of thought just to pin for folks because like what I'm observing I was always a little bit and I've had quite a bit of history with like SEO and working with SEO agencies i never really did it myself i ran a business for many years and i don't really do it in my consultancy but we sure hire like and partner with digital marketeers and they're always very much on the seo and you know and i always kind of felt and jacob i know you're a big fan of it or you were anyway until google pulled the plug on one of its algorithms but i always kind of felt it was kind of like we were all trying to game the system like do you know what i mean like oh says if I write 15 keywords in this meta tag then suddenly I'm relevant right and so we all went away and we're all like doing this like mad but at the end of the day what AI I think is potentially doing is looking for it seems to me like really it's trying to make things more genuine right and you know PR as you say is a great way of doing it trust signals from different sources right stuff you can't fake right you can't fake if your brand's been mentioned in the last 12 months 82 times in the media right you can't fake that so absolutely and you said you've seen i mean generative ai or g what they're calling it gao generative optimization engine optimization is taking over like seo i mean think about it what's the first thing that you go to when you're searching or you are looking for some research i know i chat gpt i call her veronica i had a client Yeah.

14:26And she's, she's a great source for me. Like, right. So knowing that, you know, folks are doing that, you know, you're the, the folks that you're targeting, like that's where that generative, you know, optimization really plays a part because no long gone are the days where people are just, you know, going straight to, to a Google search. Right. And so again, it goes back to my initial point earlier, how all of these different functions have to operate together and not in silo. And we do that really great with one of our clients that's in the deep tech space in that, you know, having that ability to really be really closely with the SEO expert and understanding like where links are coming from, where, you know, direct leads are coming from has been correlated to, you know, article that we may have placed.

15:13And so it's really, again, it's always key to kind of make sure that all of those systems are talking to each other. can i ask something really silly and i know we've got halfway through but pr does it stand for public relations that's all it does it does you know what some folks think that it stands for press release and i'm like oh my god pr right i just wanted to kind of clarify press release yeah so public relations then i guess it you know i guess historically and maybe you can correct me here i guess it started with you know having people within the organization who were focused focused on how do the public view us?

15:51Yes. And then now it's obviously become, got all these strands that you mentioned at the start around like crisis management and so on. Is there an area of public relations that you specialize in, your company specializes in? Is it very general or is it very focused? Like what, give us a sense of - Yeah. So yeah, Brand Saver, we really, I would say that we are very much sort of just industry agnostic, but we do service tech innovation and mission aligned. companies. And so a lot of the work that we do with them, I mentioned earlier, I talked about sort of the difference between brand and PR and comms, but it really falls into that sort of offering of sort of thought leadership.

16:32So we've worked really well with a company and positioning their managing director for being on main stages across government, across tech and across innovation. And so thought leadership is one of our sort of specialties. We do really well. The brand messaging and strategy is something that we do really well, right? And so, you know, we've worked with tons of startups who come to us and say, you know, we have this idea, but we don't know really how to articulate that. And that's where sort of that brand messaging is really helpful because you can't go out into the masses with a story if you don't know what problem you're solving and how to really articulate that to your audience.

17:10And so that brand messaging is super important as we think about how you want to show up in the world. So I would say that's one of our specialties as well. And of course, content marketing, again, think about sort of op-eds, bylines, those type of articles are still very much resonant across the industry and being able to get our clients placed with those opportunities. So earned media also becomes within that realm as well. So we're actually working with Nielsen on a pretty incredible report that they're doing right now that they just launched and really articulating the importance of black audiences in sort of the economy and consumption and so being able to position you know that report out to to media and really up leveling that storytelling is also one of our our specialties too wow amazing so quite broad quite a broad broad area

18:12I've got a friend in PR, right? And I've talked to her from time to time. And the sense I get is she's very much like landing articles within like, at least here in the UK, like within major newspaper and news outlets. Is that also part of it? So it's not, it's creating the content and making sure it lands, gets out to the right journalists and press releases, I guess might be part of that. Absolutely. I mean, that's the execution piece, but I will say, you know, anytime that a potential client comes to us about, we just want to, you know, release this press release. was like, wait, wait, wait.

18:41You know, we're big believers on, okay, what is the thinking behind this strategy? Like, you know, press releases, I feel like gone are the days where you just sort of like send it out and that's it. There has to be intention behind it. What's the story? What's the strategy? Is there an opportunity for us to run an exclusive with a national outlet? These are all things that sort of you have to think about. That's why the strategy piece is so important. So while the execution is great, where you're, you know, you're going out pitching these story ideas, the strategy is the most important part to make sure that you're approaching it the right way.

19:17And so it's met really about I talked about that earned media piece, that's really where sort of the placements and, you know, once sort of we have the angles outlined, and we feel good about it, and it really makes sense, it's going to resonate, then that's where sort of the earned media and placement piece comes. But I always say, you know, media has changed a lot, especially, you know, in this day and age. And it's not even just about sort of the relationships you have, the content and those sort of things that your launches that you're doing or in the press release, that's what matters. What is the storytelling?

19:51How is it really going to resonate with your audience? Is it sort of data that's really going to support, you know, the problem or the challenge that you're seeing in your industry. And so, again, going back to sort of the narrative piece, right? Like brand strategy is great, but like, how are you telling that story? How is it going to resonate with folks? And that's an important piece of PR because reporters get inundated with pitches day in and day out. So you have to stand out and content is king in that. So how do you make them stand out? Your messaging and story, but like to make this a little bit tactile for someone that may want to get more exposure, for example?

20:30Like what would the process be to uncover that story, that messaging and, you know, make it from external or internal to external? That's a great question. And I'll go back to kind of the process that I talked about earlier, because we do with the messaging workshop, we do a couple of different exercises. I'm like giving all the sauce like away, but story analysis is definitely important. That's why you're here, come on. We like sauce. We're very saucy. Let's go. Actually, that's one of our taglines. Let's get saucy. That is our tagline. That's our Jacob's tagline. Soar analysis, Jacob, is an important piece to that.

21:09Again, it's not, you know, you kind of flip it on its head because traditionally people, you know, brands do SWOT analysis. And I feel like it's a little contradictory to where you're going. And so the SOAR analysis really helps to pull through like, okay, what you want to be known for as a brand. But also, too, you know, you also have to think of just what's happening in the world. Trends, right? Like what are macro trends that are impacting us like long term five plus years? And then what are some micro trends that we're seeing? So macro trends, obviously, AI. AI is the talk of the talents and, you know, impacting jobs is impacting the way that we business, how we operate.

21:49So being able to kind of understand, OK, how do you fit in that sort of AI conversation? Are there any, what sort of unique viewpoint do you have, does your brand have as it relates to AI in this impact? And so that's sort of kind of doing a little bit of reverse engineering, but it's super helpful because we're able to kind of glean those insights and then come back with some meaningful storylines based on what we see that the media is talking about. And so, you know, media is covering trends. They're constantly covering what's happening in our world. And so you have to do a bit of sort of reverse engineering to then say, like, how do you feed into these trends?

22:28What's some white space that we, you know, that, for example, with AI, everybody's talking about, but is there something contrarian that you can really add to the conversation? And so that's sort of where you think about that messaging. That's really where a lot of these different sort of exercises that we do come into play because it just helps so much to really make sure that one, we're being strategic about, you know, how we are building that messaging for the brand story. and two that you are showing up in a way that's that's making you different right you don't want to be kind of saying the same old thing and it's you know especially you're looking at competitors like how can you really stand out and own that white space that maybe someone else isn't owning I find it fascinating when you talk about what we're talking about PR but you're actually going so like straight into the guts of an organization and talking about like positioning and what their difference and my thought is that some of these big companies like you've had experience at amazon and meta and stuff they they have some pretty strong brands already so what how do you handle that situation when they have internally at least have a strong brand like how what's your process then i mean i think it's really what's really important too especially when they there's a there's a strong brand ethos i think it's also about understanding why that ethos exists Right.

23:51And of course, behind the brand are the people, because at the end of the day, we're all humans operating, you know, these big brands. And so I think, you know, uncovering those layers, you kind of go back to sort of the thought leadership piece. These are sort of, you know, companies are being led by these by people and people have opinions and thoughts. And so that since we love to kind of take an approach where we call story mining, right? Like really uncovering and understanding an executive, for example, did this really well and had some really great success with the executive over at Meta.

24:27And they were just really amazing. But being able to have a series of like story mining sessions really helps to uncover sort of their care about what they're what they're thinking, what how how they see sort of the vision in the next five years and really being able to uncover that. Because I like to say with thought leadership, you have to have a unique perspective. You just can't, you know, everyone has an opinion, but like, how is your opinion really standing out? And it's changing culture, right? And so I think, you know, when you think about those bigger brands, like it's really about going behind that ethos into the minds of the leaders, right?

25:03And really getting to know what makes them tick, what sort of their vision, because that really is a telltale in terms of really how to elevate and evolve that brand story. All right. So story mining, you kept mentioning, I'd love to get the source on story mining. The source? The source. He wants more source. The source. I told you. I told you he likes source. I mean, I think it depends on each leader. It's really just a matter of interviewing, right? It's a matter of getting to know that person. Because at the end of the day, in telling stories, we're all humans, right? It's, you know, we've done work with a lot of B2B brands, B2C.

25:46We always just like to say at the end of the day, it's human to human. Like you're having a conversation. And so at the very simplified level of story mining, it's really just about getting to know that person. Right. And those questions can vary. Right. Like just based, of course, you know, a great PR professionals, comm professionals are going to go in and do their research and understand sort of their background. But I think being able to have sort of a unique perspective and coming in prepared to understand the things that you want to get out of the conversation is super helpful. So it's just in simplification.

26:19It's just getting to know that person. I have another question. So occasionally privileged enough to get asked by the press here in the UK to comment on the news story of the day or something. And I'm always absolutely terrified. Right. Because I always ask and I always I never want to say, well, to be honest with you. right i don't know you know and no one else is gonna know but that executive for example is gonna know what's going on inside their business like i was asked to comment on marks and spencer like back end of last year and at the end of the day it was like well look i can i can assume but i don't know for sure right and yeah it's it's really tricky like do you ever sort of coach or help leaders before they have to go into a scenario like that one of one of my friends he's uh he he works for a um a lobby uh group that represents uh the pharmaceutical companies don't ask me why he's like one of those guys and he always said to me matt i don't know how you go on national radio and and just go for it because like we have like a week of meetings and comm strategists and and i just thought i don't do any of that i just jump on and do the best i can that is so dangerous i know right i could probably do a little bit better with that so i'm almost hoping for some free coaching here like what what are your thoughts like say someone say say you in an industry you have been selected as a thought leader to comment what sort of things should we be thinking about yes well you know PR comes with the art of preparation right I mean media training is definitely an offering that's important especially when you're thinking about being in front of media for you know specific interviews but I think preparation is key and we we love to do media trainings.

27:58I think what's incredibly important when you say that, you know, there may be some topics that you may know, there's a technique called bridging. So while you acknowledge it, you then bridge the conversation to go into a direction based on what you want to talk about or what sort of your positioning is. So that, in that sense, Matt, that could be sort of a tactic that you would use. I always like to tell people like soundbites work, right? Like your story, story should always have three things, a beginning, a middle and an end. Keep it very short, keep it very succinct and make sure that you are getting to your point and that there's a call to action, that you want to influence folks to respond to the message that you're trying to get across.

28:43And so that sort of simplifying it, but media training is so much, there's so much more of a, it's a psychological thing too, that we don't realize. And a lot of the techniques that we talk about even in our media training sessions really lend to that. And so always having a beginning, a middle and end and keeping it super simple. You know, I've worked with founders who kind of veer off or they go in different directions and it's like, okay. And it's also because, you know, sometimes you might get nervous. You might just, you know, forget your lines. But again, if you always sort of center it around having that first middle in and that call to action of what you want folks that sort of feeling or emotion that you want to evoke i would say that's the win when you're thinking about how to prepare for media love that i'm definitely gonna listen to this next time i'm asked but yeah no and i'll probably give you a call um but yeah no that makes a lot of sense and that that bridging kind of concept yeah i have i've spotted you see it when politicians do it don't you like oh yeah so now in the u.s they just they just say whatever they want but like in the uk right like the politicians they never answer the flipping question it drives me mad but anyway they do that in the states too man run over i mean but it is a it is a very much widespread technique like you know any any sort of true comms professional that you know specializes in media training knows that bridging technique is often very much a lot of politicians use that technique in a way.

30:15Barack Obama was exceptional at it when he was in his presidency, but yeah, it is a thing. If you're serious about mastering branding and building a thriving creative business, the Brand Builders Alliance is for you. Inside, you'll get live masterclasses, mentorship from our eight resident coaches, a stacked resource vault, and a global network of brand builders who actually get it. If you're done winging it alone and are ready to scale with structure, support, and serious momentum, head over to joinbba.com and get on the wait list. That's joinbba.com. So where do we go from here, Nakia? What do our listeners need to know about PR?

30:58Well, I mean, I think at the end of the day, you, again, you want to make sure that PR is not, and we've kind of talked about it early on, like a lot of brands kind of look at it in a short-term sense. And PR is so much more than that. It's a sort of strategic leverage long-term. Oftentimes, you see it across organizations where PR is more so reactive versus proactive. And so oftentimes, they're brought to the table when something happens, a crisis occurs. And I think at the end of the day, if you want to be smart about your brand strategy, really think about those considerations up front, especially what PR can do for you in driving sort of that brand awareness, right?