In short
Kind of Funny Games Daily (Dec 16, 2025) covers Team Cherry’s Hollow Knight: Silksong expansion news, plus a deep interview with Bruce Straley about his new studio game Covenant of the Chicken Foot, and additional news on Divinity’s combat style.
Guests
Greg Miller (host). Bruce Straley, industry veteran formerly at Naughty Dog (notably The Last of Us and Uncharted), now founder of Wildflower Interactive.
Guest backgrounds
Straley left Naughty Dog after years there, did creative work outside traditional game directing (including a VR theater experience), then co-founded Wildflower with a long-time collaborator who prototyped his interactive-story concept.
Key claims
Silksong’s first big expansion is “well underway” and is coming next year with new areas, bosses, tools; Hollow Knight is getting a Nintendo Switch 2 updated version in 2026 with higher frame rate/resolution; Wildflower is self-publishing and using Steam wishlists for leverage.
Notable examples
Straley describes building character relationships dynamically (interactive “buddy/creature” concept) in Covenant of the Chicken Foot; he cites Circe and The Buried Giant as references. Divinity is confirmed as a turn-based single-player RPG with cooperative multiplayer.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOReunion of Industry Legends
2:32 to 3:42
Greg and Bruce discuss their past experiences and reunion.
“Welcome to Kind of Funny Games Daily for Tuesday, December 16th, 2025.”
Coven of the Chicken Foot Overview
3:42 to 5:48
Bruce shares details about his new game and its story.
“The dungeons have been plundered and the monsters long slain.”
Building a Game from Scratch
5:48 to 7:56
Insights into the challenges of starting a new game studio.
“When you announced sabbatical from Naughty Dog.”
Transitioning from AAA to Indie
7:56 to 12:29
Bruce discusses the differences between AAA development and indie work.
“It's like we did it, and we also have a build that's internally, we have a build that we're really proud of.”
Navigating the Game Industry Landscape
12:29 to 14:00
Exploration of the complexities of publishing and funding games.
“It helps them if they want to get publishers.”
Game Development Insights
14:00 to 15:20
Learn about the evolution and motivations behind game development decisions.
“And so for me, this is just a natural evolution of what I was already doing there, just with a smaller team.”
Book Recommendations
15:20 to 17:10
Discover book suggestions from Bruce and explore their themes.
“You can super chat to be part of the show.”
Show Structure and Support
17:10 to 18:30
Understand the show's format and how listeners can support it.
“We give you 80 episodes of ad-free content a month.”
Upcoming Events and Programming
18:30 to 19:00
Find out about future live events and programming for fans.
“Somebody can eat lunch and then we'll be out here hanging out for the last time this year.”
Hollow Knight: Silksong Expansion News
19:00 to 21:00
Get the latest updates on the Hollow Knight Silksong expansion and features.
Show all 34 chapters
Indie Game Development Challenges
21:00 to 24:10
Discuss the realities of indie game development and community engagement.
“Can't wait to see all of that plastic on Andy's desk.”
Lessons from the Industry
24:10 to 28:00
Explore valuable lessons learned from the gaming industry and studio management.
“And I mean, to double down on their success, right?”
The Importance of Team Dynamics in Game Development
28:00 to 30:20
Learn about the critical nature of team dynamics in the success of game development.
“wishlist on steam right now, everybody coming to the chicken foot wishlist.”
Hollow Knight: Silksong Release Speculation
30:20 to 31:19
Hear the discussion on the anticipated release of Hollow Knight: Silksong.
“I don't know why you would have bet because you would have lost.”
Community Engagement and Super Chats
31:20 to 33:03
Explore how community engagement through super chats enhances the podcast experience.
“Because you're at that point too in your career where everybody's coming up to you.”
Advice for Aspiring Game Developers
37:43 to 41:16
Gain insights on how to start a journey in game development and the importance of hands-on experience.
“This Father's Day, do more with Dad and spend less with low prices guaranteed at The Home Depot.”
Updates on Divinity Game Announcements
41:16 to 42:01
Get the latest news and updates about upcoming Divinity game announcements.
“Of course, another Game Awards announcement still making news.”
Introduction to Divinity: Key Details
42:01 to 43:09
Learn about the upcoming RPG Divinity and its development status.
“The key points he made during the IGN interview include, Divinity is a single player game with cooperative multiplayer as with Baldur's Gate 3.”
Reflections on Baldur's Gate 3
43:10 to 44:20
A discussion about the challenges and experiences with Baldur's Gate 3.
“I've never, I'm just an action platformy, kind of old school, SNES-y, whatever you want to call it.”
The Disconnect with Gaming Preferences
44:21 to 45:53
Exploring personal gaming preferences and disconnect with certain games.
“Gotta schedule it It's not even the time, well it is the time but it's the gameplay I just gotta get over it.”
Expectations vs. Reality in Game Trailers
45:54 to 47:21
Discussion on the impact of game trailers and their representation of gameplay.
“I feel like the train is so far out of the station.”
Generative AI's Role in Game Development
47:22 to 48:39
Insights into the use of generative AI in the gaming industry and its implications.
“And again, them being another one of these.”
Concerns About AI in Gaming
48:40 to 50:26
Addressing the potential negative impact of AI on the gaming industry.
“I'm sure you're using AI left and right in your game, right?”
Human Creativity vs. AI Tools
50:27 to 53:18
Debating the importance of human creativity in game design versus AI usage.
“And I think we're there and that's where I 100 % agree with you.”
The Future of Gaming and AI
53:19 to 56:01
Exploring the future landscape of gaming amidst the rise of AI technologies.
The Impact of AI on Work and Productivity
56:01 to 57:12
Explore the conversation around AI's influence on labor and productivity.
“I can have, like, a spiritual experience.”
Dead Island 3 Development Update
57:13 to 59:20
Discussion about Dead Island 3's development and insights from a financial report.
“But I'm sure Larry is going to use it in a great way.”
Nacon's Terminator Game Announcement
59:21 to 1:01:04
Details on Nacon's upcoming Terminator game and the changes to its release plans.
“Number four on the Roper Report with 15 days left.”
Game Design Ideas for Terminator Survivors
1:01:05 to 1:02:18
Creative brainstorming about game mechanics and the design of Terminator Survivors.
Video Game News Roundup
1:02:19 to 1:05:48
Coverage of several smaller video game news items, including release dates.
“Terminator, do you think that you have a Terminator companion?”
Coven of the Chicken Foot Character Design Insights
1:05:49 to 1:10:02
Discussion on character design and storytelling in the game Coven of the Chicken Foot.
“super chats before we get into any of the your wrongs here okay carl moore says i do phd part time in machine learning ai is overused and sold there are applications that are great i.e.”
Creative Development of the Creature
1:10:02 to 1:11:24
Explore the artistic process behind character design in video games.
“And he works with Ola, Silly Oaks, to do everything you see on the screen.”
Community Engagement and Feedback
1:11:24 to 1:12:46
Learn how community interactions influence game development.
“Similar vein, Mute That Guy says, thank you for your incredible content.”
Upcoming Projects and Excitement
1:12:46 to 1:13:40
Get insights into future games and the team's enthusiasm.
“They're like hitting a stride right now.”
Transcript
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1:05A second chance at first love. Every year after. Now streaming only on Prime. So good, so good, so good. New markdowns up to 70 % off are at Nordstrom Rack stores now. Stock up and stay big on shoes, tops, dresses, accessories, and more must-haves for summer. Join the Nordic Club to unlock exclusive discounts, shop new arrivals first, and more. Plus, buy online and pick up at your favorite rack store for free. Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack. This episode is sponsored by Once Upon a Galaxy. It's a new card game that I'm having a delightful time with. You can download it right now for free on Steam or mobile at kindoffunny.com slash galaxy.
1:50This episode is sponsored by Ark Raiders, where you and your squad can explore future Earth and brave killer robots to secure the best loot on the planet. Ark Raiders is available now for PlayStation 5, Xbox Series X slash S, and PC. Today, in the nerdy news you need to know about, Team Cherry announces a Silksong expansion. We got more info on Divinity and Coven of the Chicken Foots. Bruce Straley is here to co-host with me. We'll have all this and more because this is Kind of Funny Games Daily.
2:31What's up, everybody? Welcome to Kind of Funny Games Daily for Tuesday, December 16th, 2025. I'm one of your hosts, Greg Miller. alongside industry legend Bruce Straley. Hello, Bruce. What's up, Greg? Good to see you again. How are you? It's good to see you again. In a long time. It's been a very, very, very, very... We look very different. No, no one needs to go look it up and do the side-by-side. No one needs to go see what was... Last of a spoiler cast? I'm trying to think of the last time we were on camera together. We might have been at a PSX or something. I think I had a controller problem during Uncharted 4, something like that.
3:07And then I told stories. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good one. Good to see you. It's good to see you. Thanks for having us. Thank you for coming up. Of course, you flew in from LA this morning. That must have been an early flight. Really early. Yeah. If I fall asleep halfway through the show, somebody prod me. The adrenaline will hear. The adrenaline's here. Of course, in the chat, Lakers Head says, who's the co-host? Where have you been living? This is industry legend Bruce Straley. Of course. What? How far back do we want to go? Gex. Gex. You know what I mean? He was working on Gex back in the day.
3:35Enter the Gecko. Yeah, yeah. Last of Us, of course. Uncharted. of the chicken foot coven of the chicken foot best name in video games i don't know what happened to me we're watching the trailer right now if you haven't seen this this is from game awards of course where you made your big debut debut of course wildflower being the studio uh you guys announced that what was it a year ago more than that i remember years 22 jeez louise when you announced it i remember it now we have our first trailer of course we thought the game was going to be a little bit faster than what it turned out to be it turns out building a team from scratch is kind of hard i can imagine i want to get into it while the trailer runs though keep it up kev I'll read you the synopsis I have from the press release.
4:09The dungeons have been plundered and the monsters long slain. As the heroes move on, an elderly witch quietly gets to work. Covenant of the Chicken Foot is a single-player adventure about the building of a bond between an elderly witch named Gertie and a peculiar creature who must learn to work together to fulfill an oath. As their trust deepens, a dark revelation of what they're up against will make them question their commitment to oath and to each other. That's a Greg game right there. Dark revelation. That's a Greg-ass game right there. Dark Revelation. This is what I was talking about. When we watched it, I think during Game Awards, I was immediately like, oh, this is Bruce's game.
4:43Obviously, I mean, I can't wait. And then when we got to the end, people were like, I didn't really get it. Reading the thing about it, like such a great premise. I'm always such a sucker for, this is the aftermath. The game already happened, like Moonlighter, right? Where it's like, you're running in a shop, but you go fight stuff. But it's like, this is like, what's going on? Yeah, yeah. It's kind of the post-apocalyptic of an adventure world. So she's coming in. The dungeons are all been plundered. the adventurers came in, the monsters have been slain, and she took an oath, and she's coming in basically to do her job to fulfill that oath.
5:12You don't know what that is, but through exploring the world, we wanted to make sure that we set a world that had all the clues in there for you to reveal both in environmental storytelling as well as your interactions with the creature character. We call him the buddy internally, so if I say buddy, that's just a slip-up. That's not a real name. We just call him creature for now, and then you get to reveal by playing with that creature in the world, like what its purpose is. And, you know, I think we're doing like something new with characters in games. I think that the only way I can make a game is like trying to push to do something new.
5:46So coming to the chicken foot. I think more than anything, I'm so stoked you are making a game. That was my concern. You know what I mean? When you announced sabbatical from Naughty Dog. I don't know if I feel the same, by the way. Every day you sit in the game, you're like, why did I come back? What have I done? What, it was 2017? 2017 is that right when you left naughty dog yeah yeah and i was very much like oh i don't know if we're gonna see you again i felt like you would fade off into the you know the west sunset i wanted to just go surfing and hang out and read books and you know doodle you know that was what i wanted to do did you do that for a while for a while it was cool i also worked on some sort of weird like vr actor like in like a theater experience i needed to do something different just to go like okay like cleanse the palette get out of here but still be creative yeah it was awesome also to be in a different role than like the director role and come in and support another director it turns out that i have a lot of experience i can help other people with which was really cool and that that kind of that little spark was like oh maybe i could do something with a company that helps other people and give opportunities and turns out you can't do everything like make a new team build a team from scratch new ip biz dev everything you know you know of course running a small team is hard a lot hard hard yeah yeah so some of the things we had to compromise on and we focus on the game and the creature and everything that we're doing about this adventure world that we're setting up.
7:04How big is Wildflower now? We have 12 people in development on the development team and 16 people in the company. Dang, that's awesome. Yeah. So we're close. You're 11, I think. Yeah, we're 11. Contractors around the world, I say. We do some contracting. Yeah. It just has to happen these days. You can't do it all. Yeah. So in the game, we've scoped. We had to learn a lot about what the teams, kind of what the rhythm was for the team. You know, I've never worked with these people before. There's a lot of people. There's some people that came from Naughty Dog and then they had other opportunities.
7:35They moved on, which God bless them. Thank you for your help. And, you know, now it's about like, how do I get the rhythm of these new people? Never worked with them before. How do we build a cadence? And how the hell do we like direct people remotely? That's also been a crazy thing. So yeah, there's, it's the fact that we're here is kind of a miracle. I'll be honest. It's like we did it, and we also have a build that's internally, we have a build that we're really proud of. So over the break, we're all going to be able to go home and be like, okay, we did it, coming in the new year, just ready to rock.
8:10For you, dialing back, at what point did you know, I still have the itch, I got to go back to make a game. I can't just surf all the time. It was funny. There was one guy who was a friend of mine from Naughty Dog. he left and he was working in some sort of like tech, whatever tech bro, Silicon beach kind of vibe. And, and he hated it. He's like, I want to do games, but I don't know like how to do it. And I wanted to learn like, like unreal and design. And I was like, cool. I don't want to do any of that, but I have an idea that's been lingering for many years. It's actually an idea from like way back when we started Jack and Daxter.
8:45Okay. And, and, and, and it's just kind of been lingering. and it's even in the Naughty Dog art book, like it drew some pictures and stuff. Yeah, there's like spoilers. No, no, it's so modified. Like there's no lawsuits here. But the idea was there and it was just like, okay, there's some things I still want to prove out. Like, is there a way to tell stories that are more interactive with characters in a world rather than a story being told to me more about cut scenes, more about exposition? Nothing wrong with that. Of course. I did a lot of that. Yeah, you were good at it. But for me, I wanted to go like, okay could i like it's like a spiritual successor of ellie everything we learned about ellie and like making this character feel dynamic and responsive in combat wasn't the same ellie that you saw inside of when she got pouty or when she got excited etc those are scripted moments and i wanted to know could i create those kinds of moments dynamically like in game letting the player drive okay like kind of the story and the relationship with the character i was like okay what if and this one guy who was like just started prototyping he was amazing like he stood something up pretty quickly and by the end of a year we had three or four people on board soul propping it you know and um and then we had some demos that we were like okay let's go pitch like the the game said to me like okay i want to get made and i was like okay this is a game i would play this is a game that uh i would be proud to make and i think that i could like dig into so i mean that was it that was the cliff that i dropped off i love that inspiration that's awesome it's exciting and at the same time it's like i didn't know what i was getting into of course i really didn't know what it was going to take talk to me a little bit about that because again to go from naughty dog part of playstation yeah making the biggest games and then you start your own thing how quickly did you realize oh this is a completely different ball of black i mean big daddy sony you have those big deep pockets and also at the time that we were making games there that i was there that first of all stellar teams amazing people great track record an engine that get built and iterated on over years and years and years so like the expertise there was like like in the deep in the roots and uh and then to come out of that and go like you know like here's a new team uh I don't even know what your love language is I don't know like what kind of program like in in finding the different dynamics between like me and how I direct like I don't have that shorthand anymore with the old team I have to like um it's almost like you're writing a language from scratch and everybody's like okay how do you read this yeah and um i didn't know that everything everything was going to be a huge decision in a small team uh state compliance for remote work uh biz debbie how to negotiate a contract like what are the closet how do you even read a contract yeah how to pitch a game i never had to pitch a game we pitched the last of us sitting in the theater with like shuei yoshida scott roadie yeah that yeah name drops uh neil druckman and myself and we just went through a powerpoint we just talked through what we thought would be a cool game and they were just like great you know that was kind of it we're excited and you know good luck three and a half years later yeah we made a game and so like going out and actually trying to figure out like okay what are the publishers what are the funding different ways to get funding uh what does it mean as far as like who's got me you know by the if if you know depending on the contract like so it's just been a wild ride trying to figure out like how to build something from scratch and then on top of it build a new ip that's also trying to build on something i did at another company sure sure sure sure it's wild so i'm pretty stupid just here's what we're saying like i'm pretty dumb uh are you guys self-publishing right now i know on steam it's listed you both are publisher and developer right now we're self-publishing okay okay you're open offers we're open because like actually we wanted to get this trailer out there to kind of like feel out we love this game and we're very proud of it yeah uh and and we think we're on to something but we've been silent for so long we had no clue like like was this going to resonate or not were people gonna sure and we knew i'm not going to compete with naughty dog i'm not going to compete in the triple a market i mean we're a different thing now and intentionally so yeah but it was at the reception that we've got is like thank you everybody who like has like cared at all about what we're doing because this is what we We talk about it all the time.
13:07It's on Steam right now. Go wishlist. Help them out. This helps them find an audience. It helps them if they want to get publishers. Exactly. It's all about leverage. I mean, those wishlists mean something to the people. It's risk. It's all about risk. So the more we can prove that people are interested in it, and that's from YouTube likes to Steam wishlists, et cetera, the more leverage that the developer has. So, yeah, it's really important. Lewis says, what game is this? Of course, we're talking about Coven of the Chicken. Coven of the Chicken. You can go get it right now. This is Bruce Streeley, formerly of Naughty Dog, now of Wildflower Interactive.
13:35You can wishlist it now. You can't get it. No, that's what I meant. Sorry. I screwed it up. Yeah, yeah. It's okay. I still love you. I appreciate that. My one question before we get into today's news, because there is so much to talk about. How are you then dealing coming back? But now you come back as industry legend, Bruce Strayley. Last of Us is Bruce Strayley. Can I roll my eyes any longer? You feel like it harder? Like, it's, yeah, that's ridiculous. I'm not that dude. You know I'm not that dude. I know you're not that dude. I know that. I know that. but I mean like I kind of feel like you know you hung it up and you left and The Last of Us was already such a thing yeah now it's such a you know what I mean now it's even further gone into the world of pop culture mainstream yada yada yada yeah not but you're just trying to make your little game yeah yeah I'm I'm stoked by everything that they've done and I'm stoked by the work that we I mean everything that we did from Uncharted 2 like I really felt like we were pushing the balance of like could we put more action set pieces in game and how to cut scenes and then with The Last of Us is like, could we make it more intimate with these characters?
14:33And so for me, this is just a natural evolution of what I was already doing there, just with a smaller team. So it doesn't, and I've always been driven by, like, just make a game that you're excited to make that you would play if it came out. That's the only way I can develop. And I can't do the same thing over and over again. I just, my brain won't let me. So the fact that, you know, I have an opportunity to jump ship and my buddy, you know, serendipity or whatever it was, was willing to prototype with me. If he wasn't willing to do that, I wouldn't be here. You know, like I would have been like, oh, he'll surf.
15:09Keep surfing and do it. Yeah. All right. Well, I like that, Bruce. I like you coming up here to hang out with us. Thank you so much. Before we get out of here, BrandCakes94, and I'm out of this into the news. We're still going to keep going. You can super chat to be part of the show. YouTube.com slash kind of funny games. Of course, BrandCakes94 says, huge fan of Bruce. Any chance of a console release or is it only planned for PC right now? The game looks amazing. If you wish list on Steam, maybe something will happen. Yeah, that's part of the publisher. Part of the question. Exactly, exactly.
15:40So again, help them out. And then Zeke Speak pops in and says, Bruce, any good book recommendations? What you're reading now? Oh, yes, actually. If you're interested in Coven of the Chicken Foot, two books that I reference a lot. there's one called Circe by Madeline Miller. Great book. Really amazing. Basically, it's the story of Odysseus, the Odyssey. And there's this one section where he goes to this island and there's a witch and she turns all of the crewmates into pigs. And Madeline Miller, as the writer, was just like, why would she do that? So the whole book is like building up to what makes that kind of person to make that decision.
16:18That's amazing. And the other one is, what's his name? Kazuo Ishiguro a buried giant the buried giant, a buried giant I think it's the buried giant and some people say buried I don't know which way, are you a buried or a buried are you an aunt or an aunt type of guy? I'm an aunt and I'm a buried so it's the buried giant but a buried is like a thing on a plant that you eat but I'm from Chicago so I say roof some people are always like, what are you, the dog? I'm like, no, it's on the roof the buried giant Yeah. And so that's a story about this. It's a post Arthurian world. And there's a couple that have this idea that they're going to go across Britain and there's still troll.
17:02It's kind of like the fantasy is kind of like fading away and they've got to trek over land. And so really interesting. Yeah. You'll find some similarities in there. and that's required reading then for required reading, Covenant of the Chicken Foot wishlist now, Covenant of the Chicken Foot I'm going to say 9 ,000 other times because Bruce was nice to come out and hang out with us and I appreciate that but for now remember that this is Kind of Funny Games Daily each and every week down a variety of platforms we run you through the nerdy video game news you need to know about live on twitch.tv slash kindoffunnygames youtube.com slash kindoffunnygames podcast services around the globe, if you love that we'd love you to pick up a Kind of Funny membership, patreon.com slash kindoffunny, youtube.com slash kindoffunnygames, Apple or Spotify.
17:45You toss us$10. We give you 80 episodes of ad-free content a month. Your daily dose of me, Greg Miller, and a one-man show called Gregway. And, of course, good karma for supporting a small 11-person independent business in a tumultuous media landscape. Housekeeping for you. Remember the end of My Hero Academia with Mike and Barrett as they watch the entire final season live for the first time is this Saturday at 5 p.m. Pacific. It's live only on twitch.tv slash kindoffunnygames. So after kind of funny games daily today, you're getting our monthly show of games cast. Every game launching in January, 2026.
18:18It's a doozy. I had to put it together yesterday. And then after games cast, it's going to be a sponsored once upon a galaxy stream. However, if you're a kind of funny member, the day doesn't end there. We are doing December happy hour. It's happening 3 15 PM Pacific today. So the stream will end. Somebody can eat lunch and then we'll be out here hanging out for the last time this year. Today's Gregway is coming. It's going to be great. I was late because of a plumber, so I had to focus on driving. So I didn't record in the car as usual. Thank you to our Patreon producers, Carl Jacobs and Omega Buster, alongside Delaney the Somme twining.
18:48For now, let's begin with what is and forever will be the Roper Report. Time for some news. Five items on the Roper Report. Baker's does it. Number one. Team Cherry announces a Silksong expansion Hollow Knight refreshed and more We go to Team Cherry's blog Hey everyone, with Hollow Knight Silksongs Launched a year coming to a close, we wanted To take a moment and share a sneak peek of what we've Been working on, what's available now And what's coming in 2026 But firstly, and most importantly, we wanted To say a huge thank you to all the players who have Braved Silksong's distant and dangerous lands That's over 7 million Of you who have purchased the game alongside Millions more playing on Xbox game pass you're shaking your head that's a lot of numbers that's like yeah that's a you know people actually started moving like their their their ship days because of silkson like that's wild yeah but you coming to the chicken foot you're gonna put these numbers to shame your continued enthusiasm remains a massive motivator as we work towards expanding the game even further uh the first big expansion is already well underway new areas bosses tools and more hornets adventures continue in a nautically themed expansion coming free for all players next year we'll keep further details a secret for now but expect additional info shortly before hollow night silksong sieve sorrow releases alongside silksong's continued development we haven't forgotten about its sibling and today we're excited to announce that we're hard at work on an updated version of hollow night for the nintendo switch 2 hollow night nintendo switch 2 edition incorporates all the updates and enhancements that silksong received on the platform high frame rate modes higher resolutions and many additional graphical effects as with silksong players who own a copy of hollow knight on nintendo switch will be able to download the new nintendo switch 2 edition for free when it comes out in 2026 in preparation for that release we'll be updating all versions of the original game for current platforms adding features and fixing bugs and for a final surprise to celebrate silksong's release our talented mate alex and our friends at Fangamer have prepared an all new series of mini figurines depicting Hornet, her friends, and her rivals.
21:00Awesome. Can't wait to see all of that plastic on Andy's desk. Yeah. God knows he'll get it all. Bruce? Who knew? A game about bugs. Who knew? Who knew? Who would have thought about it? Who would have thought? Like, I got an idea. Bugs. She fights with a needle? Yeah, yeah. We're going to fight some needle and use some silk. We're going to do a bunch of stuff like that. It's wild. Yeah, good for them, man. I'm really, I mean, they're the outlier, right? It's funny, like, in the dev community, there's like, you know, every indie team dreams, you know, of this kind of, and it's stoked when it happens, but like that ain't reality.
21:31Yeah. Yeah. That's not normal, but good for them. Good that happens. It's nice to, you know, I go to Vegas for a reason, you know, it's nice. Yeah. So talk to me about that. As you look now from your indie tower, you're out there in the landscape with everybody else. Right. And you look at something like this and you say, of course, they really are the exception to the rule. Yeah. how do you make an indie studio and then keep the faith that this is all going to work out in some way? Jesus. That's a question. I mean, like, you know, I have an engaged audience and that's why you're here. Cause people want to talk to you and hear from you and all this stuff.
22:11And they love games and they love the news, but every day, a layoff, a closure, a game being delisted. Yeah. No, it's a bloodbath out there. And then I go to dice and you talk to the people who are the kids who bring out the awards are part of that mentorship program. And they all want to come work here. this whole conversation of like, what do we do when there aren't jobs or how do you motivate them in the light of how dark it can be? Yeah, we had an intern at one point because we wanted to, you know, put somebody in a position where they could like be around us and maybe just shadow us and like learn.
22:36And at some point we're like, we can't even afford that. It's crazy. Yeah, no, it's a wild ride out there. But I don't know, like for me, it's interesting to look at that game and it's kind of like Hades as well. There's something about the fan base. Yeah. the people gravitated to uh i mean the game's great let's just say like it feels good the controls are good everything about the world building the way the stories unfolds etc but specifically i what i saw and this is just observational and i can't make a game based on any of these facts but it's just interesting to think about uh the it it's like the the story is so buried and this the game is so hard that you it takes like a bloodborne style like hardcore gamer to dig in and then that rabid fan base of just like i have the secret yeah kind of drives this like weird fomo or something in the industry of just like and i and i think it's great that like people are so into it and they become the advocates and then with hades i felt like they greg and amir and that whole crew over there did such a brilliant thing and they didn't even know they stumbled onto it which is like early access and including people's comments into the process of development there's something about the connection between the fans and feeling like They're a part of it.
23:49And that's the revealing of the story, the hardcore players that can actually accomplish. And then suddenly you have a fan base that's... You couldn't plan what happened with Silksong. You can't plan that market. They were just making the game that they wanted to make and it took the time it took. If it was six years, it's six years. It wasn't like they're just hanging a carrot and go, I got a way to manipulate. No, they just like, it took that long to make that game. But it was a genius marketing move. Sure. And I mean, to double down on their success, right? when you have a game as successful as Hollow Knight, you can take that much longer to do that.
24:21Yeah, 100%. And I think it's something you talked about when you were talking about Wildflower, right? Your voice just got suddenly much more... Well, no, I'm doing serious. I'm not doing okay. This is where people are like, oh, man, Greg can do both things. He can be the funniest guy in the world or the smartest guy in the world. And I know it's crazy. You're talking about Wildflower, though, and you're talking about bringing this team together, learning the love language. And I think that's something that I bring up every so often about how sad it is to see these studios close yeah we see all these people leave the triple a starting a studio and then they'll do that we're gonna make we're we're 20 people but we're still gonna make a triple a game that never works out that studio closes yeah because you don't get to come out and do those small games that build up we talk about super giant you talk about hades like i've been in love with them since bastion yeah there's that's the kind of thing you find those smaller games from those small studios that people flock to that build a fan of the brand yeah it's almost i would think to a degree of how naughty dog was with jack where it was like you'd find these games that would bring you to it and then suddenly that brand starts to mean more and more yeah and and it's it's interesting uh first of all i got to tell a little anecdote about so when i was thinking about making wild what became wildflower and i was i was going around talking to different devs i've never run a studio myself i didn't know what are you studio head is that the title yeah yeah founder whatever CEO whatever that word is and and um uh and so I went out and kind of poked around and said like how do you do this you know if you had any red flags to tell me some red flag whatever and I and I ran the pitch by Amir and Greg over at Supergiant and they were gracious and very they look and the first words out of their mouth are just like that looks awesome man that's really cool we want to do it like and the reality that they knew what the capacity of their team was they knew what they were capable of doing and the the the pragmatism and the ability to design within that constraint and know how to be creative and know what how your team thrives you only get that by doing a bastion and and a pyre and you know and moving through it um and we've had our own rollers like i i had to go through a lot of learning lessons i i went there's a roller coaster of i thought it was going to go one way and it went another i thought finding a partnership like the type of partnership i was going to have with uh uh with funding was going to go different than it did because i know sony and they've given us like carte blanche to make anything we want like that's not the case out there yeah and so i mean you to pull back the curtain and i've talked about it shows where you jumped in like one of the worst times to jump in try to forget funding right because it was all of a sudden where it was like yo i remember the dice conversations you know survive till 25 25 people are like nobody's giving out money yeah this playstation program is going away xbox game pass is not going you're giving the deals they were giving two years ago yeah and and and you make mistakes and the question is whether or not you weather those mistakes and i think that and it really depends on your partners it depends on for us we had funding and the funding got removed for various bloodbath reasons in the industry etc i was lucky enough to to know that i'm not smart enough to negotiate a contract properly yeah that i had i was like the good creative cop you know just like yeah we're gonna do some really cool stuff and make you a lot of money.
27:26We don't wear our shoes in the office. And I had a bad cop with me who was more the biz dev guy who knew to write in a kill clause into the contract, which anybody, I don't know if this, because I have a name and a reputation behind me that I had that leverage. But nonetheless, if anybody could like say like, Hey, we need some sort of commitment to this game. And if you're not committed to this game, it means like, uh, we want to get paid out. And I didn't even know that beforehand. So the fact that we had our funding removed, but we're able to still float the company and get a trailer out and get wishlist on steam right now, everybody coming to the chicken foot wishlist.
28:04That like, I didn't know that that was a thing. So the fact that we're actually still alive is only because of somebody else that helped me negotiate like in that way. So it's hard. And like things like the Concord team is wild. Also like that was a really good, like they've proven themselves. Evan Wells, I learned something from Evan Wells really early on. we were doing interviews and i you know we were like this we we were hot shit we were drinking our own kool-aid we thought you know we're naughty dog and um and we were interviewing somebody and this guy like worked on some horrible game it was it didn't sell anything the code was bad it ran at like 10 frames a second i'm like why are you interviewing that guy and he says you never know you never know it's not about the person it's about the company is the ones who came up with the game this guy might be quality yeah so that feeling of like you never know was something that I really carry with me.
28:54It was just like, you never know. You give everybody a chance. You have partners a chance. So I don't know where I was going with that point. You're killing it. No, I think this is why you're here again. We come out and we talk. We're chuckling. Concord. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because that team had already proven themselves and shipped a game. It doesn't matter about the game. It really doesn't matter if the game succeeded or not. The fact that building a team is impossible. Building a new game is literally, it's mythological and the things that you have to do to actually get a game out. so the fact that they proved it and that some and i'm not blaming anybody it's just the nature of like you know dollars and cents on an excel sheet or something and somebody just says like we can't afford that anymore uh but that team was capable of doing something they shipped a game that looked really good so i'm sure that they had the talent to do something else yeah that's wild to me and i don't run those big bureaucratic companies i'm not in charge of that the world would be a lot better if i were in charge though i mean i think it would be for all of us you know no it's but it is this is what i always talk about is that mind share right that brain power that's lost when you let a studio make a game and get it out and then kill the studio where it's like okay well they learned a lot from it's about the people right that's all it is it's about the people and to try to get people to even work together is is a magical feat and so the fact that like those so if anything i plead to any publisher is just like if you have a studio that's made a thing like try to figure out how to keep them like that's the thing yes yes yes uh but yeah obviously cool more hollow night's coming did you play silksong at all i didn't play silksong but hollow knight a lot okay yeah okay well you'll be back from nintendo switch to a version then yes i will actually all right yeah yeah i was stoked for them of course and the success they found this year no kidding uh you know crazy to actually have it i will be shocked if it comes out next year this dlc we've all been burned by hollow knight and release dates before and i refuse to believe uh over on the super chat uh gadnuck writes in and says greg i just wanted to throw it out there that you said there was no way we'd get silksong dlc slash update news during the game awards show given how long the development took.
30:51I should have bet a slice on it. We do pizza bets here. I don't know why you would have bet because you would have lost. I would have won. I said there wouldn't be a GameWarns. It wasn't a GameWarns. Post GameWarns doesn't count. And if you're playing this and here's, you know what? Genuk, B-O-W, with your Canada money, I'll bet a pizza right now that this DLC does not come out next year. Kevin, hit the pizza bet thing. I'll take the pizza bet because I don't think that they would come out with this if they didn't feel like they had something. Because they don't have to come out with something these team cherry people and their ivory tower they know it doesn't matter you're playing this in 23 you'll play the casey hudson star wars rpg before you play this not true i'm not taking that bet but that's where i'm going thank you thank you kevin uh we got a rock block of divinity headlines i want to jump into before then let me give you a super chat then let's do some ads ty wilkins vo says uh so great to see bruce fun fact the last of us is why i discovered my want to voice act and now I'm living that dream.
31:52Can't wait to play the new game. Nice. Thanks. How's that feel? Because you're at that point too in your career where everybody's coming up to you. I'm sure I'd be like, your game, I was in middle school and your game inspired me and now I'm putting out my game. Middle school's about right. Yeah, yeah. That's, yeah. You know, I'll be on my walker. He's just like, I know you. I mean, nobody knows who I am. It's cool. What are you talking about? Everybody were freaking out on the chat that you were here. They're excited about the new game. Let's move on, Greg. Well, I'll move on then to my favorite place, patreon.com slash kindoffunny, youtube.com slash kindoffunnygames, Apple and Spotify.
32:25That's where you can pick up a kindoffunny membership. Of course, that keeps the lights and mics on for this independent media company in a tumultuous media landscape. What do you get in return? You get every one of our shows ad-free. That's more than 80 a month, not this month because we're taking two weeks off. Work-life balance, calm down. And then, of course, you get Greg Waste each and every day and you get good karma for supporting an 11-person business. And did you know that I'm sure on some of these platforms you can gift the membership? I'm assuming. That'd be good. The holidays are up.
32:54It's a great stocking stuffer. There's nothing Nana would like more than a membership to kind of funny. Am I right? Put it in the stocking. You're not using your benefits right now, though. So here's a word from our sponsors. Guys, we had an indie company reach out to us hoping we could help promote their card game. I checked it out, and I'm having a delightful time. It's called Once Upon a Galaxy. I downloaded it and it's really easy to get started. I instantly started finding crazy combos, developing my strategy, and admiring the beautiful character arts. Something super unique and cool is it's PvP, but there are no timers.
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34:42Swarms of drones, massive robots, and rival raiders make every trip unique. Choose solo, duo, or squad of three, but rival players are never far away. Team up or take their loot. What kind of raider will you be in the Rust Belt? Arc Raiders is available now for PlayStation 5, Xbox Series X slash S, and PC. This episode's brought to you by HelloFresh. You may have heard of HelloFresh. They're the number one meal kit in America, making home cooking easier with chef-crafted recipes and fresh ingredients delivered straight to your door. But this fall, they're serving up even more to love. This isn't the HelloFresh you remember.
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35:57That's HelloFresh.com slash KindaFunny10FM to get 10 free meals plus free breakfast for life. This episode is brought to you by Aura Frames. Here's my holiday pattern. Tell myself I'll be thoughtful, panic at the last minute, buy a gift card. This year, you can skip the panic and give an Aura Frame. No lie, Aura Frames are undeniably the best gift I have ever given. And I'm going to be sad when I run out of people to give it to because I'll never give a gift this great again. families, friends, partners, everyone loves being able to have beautiful frames showing off their loved ones and favorite memories.
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38:43The thing that makes anything a thing.
39:14now available on disney plus rated pg of course founder of wildflower interactive of course the people behind the upcoming game coven of the chicken foot coming to the chicken foot bruce wishlist now uh bruce of course people can talk to you by writing into youtube.com slash kind of funny games to be a super chatter brand cakes 94 says question for bruce been wanting to start my game dev journey but i don't know where to begin any tips for someone who wants to start making games there's a lot of free software that just may just make games that's it make games uh get your friends somebody does voice acting just go through all the different disciplines the more you know about what it takes to make a game the and the more you can just speak to experience of like yeah i did that oh this is how i did my voice recording oh this is how i i scripted that character oh this is what like the more you can speak to what you've done and have that experience the more you're right that somebody's going to listen to you like on on from my perspective for sure you know a lot of people come out of school and they come there's like a theory of like the philosophy of games and they have these heady ideas and that doesn't help me make a game i'm not looking to create some sort of like you know dialectic sort of interpretations of white paper theory but like i don't we just are trying to figure out how to get this up and running and that's how we make a game and so getting people that have that mindset of just like no no i've been in there i know what it's like i know what it's like those people are the ones that you want to you want to get in the in the studio i found that so fascinating do you in your estimation would you tell people they have to is the right word but would you encourage school or can you be self-taught on what you need to get to i think you can be self-taught i really do i think that uh there's there's there's so much software out there there's so many communities out there of people builders uh like-minded people you can read all you can watch a thousand youtube videos on on the theory of game development or the design theory, etc.
41:07So just like you don't need you don't need schooling for that. You don't need to pay. You don't need to go into debt for that. Fair enough. Thank you. Good advice. We move on to story number two. A couple of Divinity headlines. Of course, another Game Awards announcement still making news. We'll start with 2A. Divinity, like Baldur's Gate 3, is a turn based RPG. Larian confirms this is the one, the only. WIP at IGN.com. Larian has confirmed that its upcoming role-playing game divinity is indeed turn-based following speculation from the developers fans following the announcement of divinity at the game awards fans had wondered if it would follow 2023's baldergate 3 and prior games in the divinity series by offering turn-based combat or mark a significant shift for larian and move to a more action game oriented combat confirmation that it is sticking with turn-based comes from a bloomberg interview with larian boss Sven Vicky Vicky Vicky I always Winky once I introduce Sven's name I just start calling him Sven so that's it but you know him he would chain mail from the game awards very nice man next time I meet him I'm gonna say yell your name say it say it quote this is going to be us unleashed I think he said it's a turn based RPG featuring everything you've seen from us in the past but it's brought to the next level end quote he took part in a round of interviews with the media following the announcement and spoke to IGN in an interview of our own on what to expect from Divinity.
42:29The key points he made during the IGN interview include, Divinity is a single player game with cooperative multiplayer as with Baldur's Gate 3. Larian has been working on Divinity for two years already and it is now in full production. Larian owns Divinity so it is free from the Dungeons and Dragons shackles it built Baldur's Gate 3 with. Divinity is bigger than Baldur's Gate 3. I think that's a weird bullet point but okay fine. Divinity will most likely use early access prior to full launch as Baldur's Gate 3 did but Larian is undecided. We're going to take a turn here into a bigger topic in video games.
43:04So right now, while we're just talking about Larian, Baldur's Gate, divinity, and all that jazz, did you play Baldur's Gate three? I did not. That's fine. I'm fine with that. No, no, they're fine with it too. Don't worry. Don't worry about it. I wanted to. What turned you off time? Yeah. Just time too big of a game. Yeah. It's a lot. I've never, I'm just an action platformy, kind of old school, SNES-y, whatever you want to call it. Like that, that's the type of game that I grew up with. That's the type of game I play and the type of game I make. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so it's not to say I wouldn't, I want to, but I, it's always this barrier.
43:39Like I don't have the language, you know? Yeah, that's a big thing for me. And I, Baldur's Gate 3 on paper should be so my shit. I love games and I love choice and I love permutations. Right. But every time I've started, it's just so CRPG and I'm just like, oh, this isn't how, like, it takes a special turn-based RPG for me to be into it. And I'm thinking like a JRPG turn-based rather than a CRPG turn-based. Whereas, like, I'm going to give it another shot. If you've been listening to me on Gregway, I've had a smoldering of, like, I think I might be able to have, I want to do Baldur's Gate 3, so I'm hoping after I finish the next few Game of the Year contestants I have to get through to kick it on again and maybe have some time over Christmas break with it.
44:20but it's I it is the most you know I did you play expedition 33 this year I did not you're fine don't worry this isn't about you it's about me I take the arrows I'm turning my I'm doing the thing I'm the I have a lot of my play guys I know you're busy expedition 33 is a game that I also just didn't connect with like I I loved everybody loved it we did the review and I'm not at all saying it's not that yeah we did the review yesterday and watching those cut scenes uh from where I played 11 hours of it so I got through some of the big things but we watched more and talked more like i want to experience that so i'm pressed up against the glass being like i wish i could enjoy that baldur's gate is the one where i'm like pressed up the glass crying where i'm like i gotta get over this everything i i keep sitting i'm like do i you know fallouts here everybody season two of fallouts here we're reviewing episode one tomorrow but we watched episode one last but the embargo is weird so we're not reviewing it today but it doesn't matter uh but like i was like i finished that i'm like man i could really go for a fallout so you turn on 76 and I'm like this ain't it and it's like do I want to go back to New Vegas again I'm like I know Baldur's Gate is what I want Baldur's Gate is what I want to make crazy decisions and roll the dice and do the thing I gotta get over the gameplay.
45:27Gotta schedule it It's not even the time, well it is the time but it's the gameplay I just gotta get over it. Is it wild to you or is it normal to you? Like that trailer that was shown at the Game Awards. Yeah And then I read this and it's like oh does it in your brain is that okay with you? Does it match? The violence of it? No, I don't mind. I'm all about violence. I don't care. It's more about... It's so CG. It's so not the game. I feel like the train is so far out of the station. It doesn't matter anymore. I mean, remember Blur and Diablo. We thought it was important. There's gameplay in our trailer.
46:08We specifically said, we need to show what you're doing. Again, though, that's the double standard. That if you came out as a brand new studio in a brand new game, no gameplay ever. I don't even know what this is. We thought it was really important that you saw the game running. Yeah. Especially like we've been in the shadows for so long. It was important. So ours is like a bookend, secret spoilers, whatever. But the beginning and the end are kind of the bookends about the golden path, what you're doing on the golden path, secrets. But the middle is like how you're doing it. That's kind of the vibe that we had on the trailer.
46:39So at least you get to see like, okay, I don't know what I'm going to, he threw me something, but do I have a control for that? But that'll all get revealed but um when this game comes out it was wild to watch a cg thing that long in we don't have it when this game wishlist on steam um no it was wild to watch and by the way we wanted nothing more than to go right after that we thought that would be the greatest thing ever just like guy burning alive and said they do the muppets the muppets were before after his drip his drippings are turning into like demon like everything about it was just like yeah we need to go right after It would have been the best location.
47:13Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Very different, though. It is very different. The game from the CG. I don't know. I'm looking forward to see what Divinity is, obviously, based on the pedigree and what Larian's working with. And again, them being another one of these. Larian and Baldur's Gate 3 was so The Witcher 3 and CD Projekt, where it was like, oh, this is the coming out party. They've been doing stuff, and people have loved it, but now suddenly they're the biggest thing in the world. They're huge. And everybody pays attention to what they say, and sometimes they might not say the right thing. 2B.
47:40Divinity Maker is using Gen AI But promises no slop in the final game This is Ethan Gotch over Kotaku Larian Studios is apparently bullish On generative AI Despite backlash against the technology from fans And even some of its own developers The studio hood Sven says The Baldur's Gate 3 Maker has embraced it For exploring ideas And for the early prototyping of new content Bloomberg reports that Larian has been Quote, pushing hard on generative AI End quote, using it for things like PowerPoint presentations, placeholder text, and even concept art. The RPG powerhouse has reportedly moved ahead with the tools, even against the wishes of some staff at the company, though Sven believes most of the team is on board with how it's currently being implemented.
48:22Quote, I think at this point everyone in the company is more or less okay with the way we're using it, he said. The Larian director also promised that no generative AI would make it into any finished games, like the studio's upcoming turn-based RPG Divinity. Quote, everything is human actors, we're writing everything ourselves, he told Bloomberg. Okay. All right, Mr. Doodling on the sands while you surf. I'm sure you're using AI left and right in your game, right? There's no AI. It's weird. I can't use the term AI to define the creature companion anymore. It used to be like you had at Naughty Dog, we had like five or six AI programmers.
48:58But now you can't say AI without everybody going like, how dare you? You're going to hell. That's the end of the world. and so now we have to come up with like, oh, companion character, like a novel NPC, like something you haven't seen before and like... The way the computer thinks. An ally companion. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Computer thinking logic, it's hard. I remember complaining about the AI in Madden, you know, in Genesis or something like that. Yeah, it's been around forever and we've used it in a specific way, but now mainstream and these generative AI tools have come in and twisted that into something.
49:31Well, now it's so much larger than... Like when you have like Xbox studios having to downsize because of the mothership, you know, Microsoft saying, no, we're investing in AI. And then that affects our industry. That affects us. And so you can't help but to go like, fuck AI, you know, on some level. Excuse me. But it's like you got to be like. Fuck AI. We're all there. You know, but it could be useful. It could be a tool. My buddy has a concept studio and he hasn't had a, and they do amazing stuff. they've been working on AAA games and smaller games and they do stuff for DreamWorks and they haven't had a gig in like seven weeks because of, you know, everybody can just go, Hey Sora, make this thing look like that thing.
50:13Yeah. And so it's wild just to know, like it is affecting people in this industry and it does affect like, and you know, is it, is it compelling? And it's that Jurassic park thing. It was like, you are so interested in, you could, you didn't think you should. And I think we're there and that's where I 100 % agree with you. And I think, I forget who it was. I apologize, but over on BS, that's a blue sky, Bruce. They were talking and having, this was going around and somebody quote tweeted, it was like, this is going to be a great fallback plan when inevitably something they did use for generative AI makes it to the final game and they're always a mistake.
50:45We didn't need to do it. And maybe it is an actual mistake. But again, it's like anytime you insert something in the code or whatever, an inside joke that then makes it or we do something stupid in the dock and then that somehow gets like, this is how you, this is a, you can see the rake. we're inside the house but I can see the rake in the front yard and I know you're going to step on it like don't do it like don't bother doing it and like powerpoints let's stop making powerpoints nobody needs powerpoints anyway nobody needs a deck only Snowbike Mike stop making decks alright he makes fun decks that's other than other yeah I don't know no we don't need AI I think I think like it really I mean I don't want to be on my high horse and the soapbox and the whole thing but I really do think it's the demise of a human species our brain we need a frontal lobe we need something that can actually like go through the i'm learning piano right now and i can feel like when i go to i'm just like huh and i don't know what i'm doing and the the next morning i wake up after a good night's sleep i come up and i get back to the piano i'm just like oh i kind of and i can feel my brain and it's just like that's what we're making we have hundreds of thousands of years of like this supercomputer that's built and they're making you know football fields and draining water supplies etc to try to replicate something that a human can already do it doesn't make sense to me it just doesn't make sense to me okay i'm getting off my soapbox no no this is a great conversation it's a while to have you again we have the chuckleheads who don't make the games we have this conversation on kind of funny all the time so it's great to have someone here who's in the same vein of just i love that somebody doesn't know what it was the it was the greatest pleasure at naughty dog honestly to see somebody who was challenged at something they weren't great at something and they persevered and persevered that ability to stick to something and go like okay can I do it despite what my head says like I'm a failure I'm not good at it whatever the thing is that we all tell ourselves like I don't know how that evolved into humans I don't know how we got through that but somehow we say that to ourselves and then you see them accomplish something or make something and they feel proud of themselves and I can go like dude you did that or you know you whoever you did that and that's such to me that was the greatest pride that I had with the team is like seeing people get challenged and overcome those challenges that's to me what it is to be on a team and be in a community and do stuff is we get to be inspired by each other and ai doesn't inspire me yeah i don't want to watch a movie that i know somebody prompted like there's nothing that says like a human is behind that trying to struggle with how do they how do they find a voice how do they actually like uh try to communicate like what their i don't know their fantasies are their childhood trauma is like whatever the things they're sorting out their art you know and and i don't think that you know prompting an ai gets to the heart of what a human experience is that's that's a lot i'm no it's great away from the mic no no no no i'm gonna put you right back on it because it's like the question i would have for you then of like so here you are out there wildflower interactive coven of the chicken foot you're doing your own thing you're independent the industry at large dealing with many problems as always or whatever but it really is this ai business what you see over at xbox right and you see playstation occasionally trying to tackle it in some other way but everywhere it's happening to some degree or whatever and so then do you go oof thank god i got out of having a giant corporate overlord or do you go oof they're burning down the entire house and it's going to get everybody no matter what it's kind of the whole house but i i think that there's always going to be room for creators i think there's always room for somebody to say something i think that um you know um i i think we as humans i i always had this thing at naughty dog people might not understand the the details or sort of the subtext of everything we put the decisions and the choices that we as developers have put into every single pixel and every single line of dial everything but they feel it and that's the difference between like you don't have to know you know you know i work in the sausage factory it's my job to know how the sausage is made everybody else just needs to like enjoy the sausage i don't want to use the sausage metaphor anymore but yeah um and so i think that's the thing for me is just like uh um sticking to my guns what i maybe i'm an older generation you know and i don't know what's going to happen with the next generation i don't know it has maybe it's more accessible maybe it's more available for people and it's just like what they do but i also feel like there's going to be a bar that's set that there's going to be like you're going to define slop and then you're going to have something that feels like it's created by a human that's my guess that's the hope right that if people continue to lean into all this ai bullshit and get fed just the lowest common denominator this thing that the things that aren't using that stand out even more where you do look at something like claire obscure you do look at something like wildflower entertainer interactive sorry wild flyer we're putting our hearts in it i mean that's the reality is like every single thing every choice in that game is is driven by somebody on the team who's putting all they're all in it we don't have any ai anywhere even in the docs that we have to write and i've had to write many a doc and many of things to try to figure out like how to even like all the press release stuff like could have just spit that out you know in some AI but I felt like it doesn't then sound like me and I know that some people are even saying like oh this is the first time that they're starting to prompt in a way that like they it's replicating my voice etc I don't know I just okay here's maybe an argument that I don't hear said a lot when we first had computers they said everybody's gonna have a computer a laptop or a computer on their desktop and it's gonna free up so much time it didn't free up any time i think we always fill the time with whatever like whatever work has to get done so whatever this tool is if people keep calling it a tool i really need to get off this soapbox i hear myself and like but the point is i think we're just going to fill more and more time using ai it's not going to somehow be this spiritual revolution where we're like i can now meditate Oh, man, it's so great.
56:28AI's here. I can have, like, a spiritual experience. Like, I'm going to go off and, you know, have a trip around the world because AI is doing it for me. I mean, the economy is already in 40 fall. When it takes away, when AI takes away the work you're doing at your job, what are you doing? You're not working a job anymore. Like, that's, let's cut to the, you know, the Microsoft example. The reason they're shoving AI into everything is to try to streamline and pay fewer people to do the jobs they're already doing. So it's like we don't see the end of this. Which is even worse because then it's the thievery of it, too.
56:57That's just like it has to. It devours the work of another human being that put their energy, love, passion into something. And it goes like, you know, back out. Oh, man. You know, snake eating its own tail. That's the vibe I get. But I don't know. Good luck. But I'm sure Larry is going to use it in a great way. Story number three on the Roper Report. Dead Island 3 is aiming for a 2028 release with the sequel. and now the primary focus of the studio. This is Connor McCarr over at Eurogamer. Financial documents have revealed that not only is Dead Island 3 in development at Dan Buster Studios, but it's aiming for a 2028 release.
57:35This was spotted by the user. I love it when the news is spotted by some user on, this is an ex-user, was spotted by ex-user Bogo Rad 222 who posted the Dan Buster annual financial report online, including a brief overview of the company and what's currently working on. The overview reveals the primary focus of the studio is now Dead Island 3. Quote, after the release of Dead Island 2 Ultimate Edition in October 2024, the primary focus for Dan Buster Studio is now Dead Island 3 the report states. All developers are assigned to the project and once the Luna and Mac versions of Dead Island 2 are complete, all of Dan Buster's QA team will be assigned to Dead Island 3.
58:10End quote. The report continues, parts of the game are now in early production with feature, character, world, and story designs moving at pace. The current predicted release window for the project is Q1 or 2 of 2028. As for Dambuster's main risks, the report states that these stem from, quote, having the right version and mission to know which games are trending in three to five years, staying on top of engineering standards of AAA games, as well as having the right talented team available for working on projects. End quote. Awesome news. Everybody knows, probably don't actually because we never talk about it, but I like Dead Island 2.
58:44I didn't think, I forget what I gave it on whatever scale we were even using at the time. I'm kind of funny to review it, but it was an enjoyable open world zombie romp. yeah so it's like this is what we're talking about from before yes take all the lessons and all the reviews and all the criticisms from that game and make a dead island 3 keep that team together don't lay everybody off yeah go ahead and iterate on that and make something hopefully better and even more fun can i just say this is wild that there's the news that specifically they're saying all the developers are assigned to the project then we're going to move on to the like that that's a level of detail i've never seen in a report before that's cool like somebody's being that transparent well damn busters put out like nobody's going to catch this but they weren't ready for Bogo Rad 222 on Twitter to be digging through the financials.
59:23That's wild. Yeah. Good for them. Good for them. Number four on the Roper Report with 15 days left. Nacon confirms its Terminator game is releasing in 2025. This is Andy Robinson at VGC. Thank God we got confirmation. With 15 days of the year left, Nacon has confirmed that it's open world Terminator game. Terminator survivors won't be released in 2025 as planned. I'm sorry. In its first update since the game's last delay to 2025, the publisher confirms that survivors is no longer will no longer release in early access and that the plans for cooperative multiplayer in the game are also axed in a letter to fans creative director marco point claimed that the decisions came after months of internal testing discussions with the players i'm having trouble reading it because i've never i don't i did not know about this game and i like terminator a lot and so i'm seeing a trailer over here for terminators and i that gets my attention because i like terminator it kind of looks like our graders it wouldn't this is what i would expect from you know terminator oh there it is shit that's terminator right this guy's dead you know oh damn there it is t800 stomping in damn how did i miss this well i guess because it got it got announced in 2024 oh that's all it was that's how i missed it okay uh quote though we've been quiet we haven't been idle this year has been productive and we've made important progress across all fronts from world design and combat to narrative depth and atmosphere after months of internal testing discussions with players and fans of the license we came to the conclusion that to give you an authentic terminator experience with the best possible shooting and exploration gameplay we would have to put aside cooperative multiplayer we know this may come as a disappointment but we believe it is the right creative direction for the uncompromised division of the world after judgment day he continued uh we've also had to overhaul the release our release plans instead of launching an early access we want our your first steps in the wasteland to be complete and polished experience you might have guest already but that means terminator survivors won't be launching in 2025 we don't have a new date locked in but we'll let you know when we're ready to share a new release date well it's still going still live yeah i was gonna say again for something i don't know they're saying the right things like yeah don't rush it out i don't want to i don't need a crappy early access version of what's going on here it's more interesting judgment day this is this is the terminator survivor steam page judgment day has come as the rare survivor of this catastrophic catastrophic event uh fight and help the resistance rise from the ashes of civilization but beware skynet's machines patrol relentlessly the surface and the legendary t800 is on your tail fascinating me a single player game because i mean like the even the gameplay why the trailer is outdated since it's not co-op anymore but it looks so much like arc raiders it's arc raiders totally yeah yeah and also uh what there was that uh zombie game it had a multiplayer mode uh oh they weren't zombie they were infected um it's not sit my time last of us yeah and then they made a big deal they're gonna do a multiplayer one good multiplayer original yeah it's almost like a pillar of the company left they couldn't do the multiplayer version that's not that's not that's not accurate i'm just joking everybody calm down we're joking around with bruce everybody calm down bruce when terminator survivors comes out and has released it oh shit we didn't prep you Wait, wait, wait.
1:02:38Terminator, do you think that you have a Terminator companion? Do you think that you can have a robot friend that has intel? Do you think you need to hack one so that you can get the information about... Look at this game design right now. Let's figure out what the core loop is here. We're going to hear all the ideas we come up with. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That sounds cool. I... Who is making... Oh, I had it open. Let me... Control-Shift-T. Nope. Control-Shift-T. There it is. This is... Oh, it's so it's Nacon Studio Milan. So I don't know anything. What did they make? What did they make? TTI of man, a bunch of racing games.
1:03:16I think that sounds too cool for what I expect out of this game. I have been wrong about Nacon games before. I think they've turned a corner, right? Because of course they had the row RoboCop rogue city game. We all like that was like a RoboCop RPG. Wait, this is fucking rad. And then they also did Hell's Us, right? They published it. So it's like they're doing good stuff. Yeah. But I think of them as that double A space. And so like. Think this is a bit bigger? I think this. No, I think this is. I think it's going to be scary. I think this will be focused on purely surviving. There's a story over what we're trying to get the MacGuffin to do the thing to whatever.
1:03:49But it's like we're running from the Terminators. I don't think we'll get to hack them and take their information and flip them to our team and stuff. That'd be cool. Like cut close to the bone. Here it is. This is the core experience. You're the rebel group against the. Sure. Part of the resistance. Fair. Fair. I'll keep my eyes peeled. You know what I'm going to do? I'm going to add this to my wish list. The motorcycle scene, though. You've got to have one motorcycle. You've got to have the motorcycle on there or whatever. All right, now, we didn't brief you for this. Oh, okay. I'm going to do a bad transition, then you've got to read that highlighted part, okay?
1:04:15Okay, I'm reading. No, not yet. Okay, here we go. You ready? No. No, no. Now, Bruce, Terminator Survivors coming out any year would be big news. But if I wanted the tiniest news, say the tiniest news in the world about video games, where would I go? You'd go to our last story, the Wii News Channel, where we cover all the small news items you need to know about. Are you Gertie's voice in the game? I don't know. Is that from your game? She is Scottish. Number five on the Wii News. Mega Man Star Force Legacy Collection is going to launch on March 27th, if you can believe that. Another Game Awards announcement.
1:04:54Where Wins Meet has surpassed 15 million players. Escape from Tarkov has sold 1 million copies since its 1.0 launch on November 15th. No rest for the Wicked Showcase. wicked inside set for december oh wait hold on i'm thinking about game here no rest for the wicked oh fuck yeah hell yeah okay everybody now we got some now we're cooking no rest for the wicked has a showcase the wicked inside set for december 18th at 9 a.m oh doctor that's a great one i'm excited for that one if you aren't playing it's in early access right now we're big fans of no rest for the wicked from moon studios the award-winning developers of ori in the blind forest and ori will of the wisps comes no rest for the wicked a visceral precision action rpg set to set to reinvent the genre huh big words big words big words we'll see what they got up their sleeve on jessember 18th i'm excited for that two days from now me too maybe uh games daily if it's worth it and that's it for we news we news thank you bruce now we jump back to your super chats before we get into any of the your wrongs here okay carl moore says i do phd part time in machine learning ai is overused and sold there are applications that are great i.e.
1:06:08catching medical conditions but we are being sold what we already do f capitalism indeed that's my thing is like there's got it i know there are good capitalism use there's good uses for ai generative ai for sure just not doing the fun stuff do the boring shit i don't want to do yeah Yeah, I agree with that. Samson XP says, we need a different word for using Gen AI to write an email versus Gen AI for concept and creativity. Now, as a writer, by trade, that's nails on a chalkboard to me. No, write your own fucking email. Don't worry about where you put in your commas. Just let it be in your voice.
1:06:43Let it be a personal experience. I like typos in my emails. I intentionally text as well. Whatever. That's me. That's fine. They'll get it. I start every email. Oh, hey, that's just how it is. Gary III says, author Brandon Sanderson recently did a speech on AI art. His thesis is the end product isn't the art. The artist is. The human. AI rips that away. I would agree with that. When we play something, we enjoy anything. You want to know what inspired that. Are you watching Plurbis? Yeah. My favorite thing with Plurbis is then going onto TikTok and seeing all the creators who are tearing it apart and looking at this reference.
1:07:18And I'm like, man, what is Vince Gilligan trying to say here? I like that. I love it. Yeah. I also am wondering what he's trying to say. So that's good. Are you enjoying it? I'm in it. Yeah. Yeah. The way I describe it when Jen and I talk about it with other people is like, I'm interested. Yeah. But I'm not enthralled. It could use some editing. I want it to be severance where it's like, oh man, a new episode, shop everything. Let's go watch. Most of the time I'm like, oh, it's Saturday. Oh, there was a new pluribus last night. Do you want to watch it tonight? And then we get into it. It's like.
1:07:43Same vibe. Same vibe in our household. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
1:07:51all right, let's go. This is going to be fun. It's like, I don't like it when people have to tell me when they're playing a game. It's just like, well, about 40 hours in, it really takes off. You can't do that. I don't have time for that anymore. Over here, we got Krabby Patty who says, Bruce, what inspired the design of the main characters in Coven of the Chicken Foot? Oh. Can we get the trailer back up while we talk about it, Kevi? Thank you. Well, it started off with just simply saying, like, how do you create an asymmetrical relationship that these two characters are going to need to rely on each other?
1:08:18And so if I'm creating a world of adventure based on like the hero's journey and saying like, okay, well, what if it's not your typical hero, like, you know, jacked to the gills and, you know, with a sword and a shield and, you know, what if it's a little old lady? What if it's somebody on the sidelines of adventure usually and then cast out into a world not meant for her? And so it started off with a boy and then it went to a girl and then it went to like an old lady. So it was this evolution of just like, it's testing against the world of adventure and like, how can I say something about heroes, about heroism, what heroism really is, isn't about like fighting your way through the problems but instead about like you know loyalty commitment sacrifice that kind of stuff and really it's not about like one person hasn't kind of did the ai thing a little bit it's not about the individual it's not about the capitalistic like the gains you know which is usually games is like xping up your sword but i thought it was more interesting to go like what if what if she wasn't like built for with a double jump and a sword what if you find a sword in the world and she picks it up and drags it because it's too heavy for her.
1:09:19Bruce, you're saying all the right things. That suddenly got really exciting for me. If you're going to have a world that has threats in it, then how is she going to get over the threats? That became the relationship. You need to figure out how to build a bond with this character, this creature, in order to actually overcome the obstacles in the adventure. How much money do you need for publishing? Kevin, get out the checkbook. We'll put on the Patreon thermometer. Wow, Kevin's improving. We got it, everybody. also just for your heads up when you get off of here i need a text from you later today to let me know how fast herman has reached out for a meeting with you from playstation because game informer is already approaching bruce straley on coven of the chicken foot quote it's actually an idea from way back when we started jack and dexter end quote so that headlines out there so you're in for a world of pain right now so i'm sorry for that the creature was actually started i did some watercolors i thought it was going to be a lot muckier and darker and then our art director valter gort Wouter.
1:10:15He's amazing. And he works with Ola, Silly Oaks, to do everything you see on the screen. This is like out of his sketchbook. This is like him saying, like, we want to do something that lasts the test of time. And so his renderings of the creature were a lot more lighthearted. And I thought that was interesting that then it started inspiring the idea of like, everybody wants it to be about the helpless and the brute. Like, the brute's going to protect the helpless. And we thought, well, the player's the one on the stick. The player's the one that's going to be pushing forward. So Gertie is the one who shows persistence because you, the player, are just going to push forward.
1:10:47It's just your nature as a player. You can't design apprehension in a protagonist. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you can in your companion character. And so we thought it was fun to play with the tropes of like, okay, what if it's not a brute? What if it's actually scared of the dark and completely naive to things and loves muffins? And what if that's the take on it? So Valtor helped find this more adorable. Can't wait for the plushies. you know they're coming. Jay Overson says, Bruce, thanks for all your work on so many games that I grew up with. Jack and Daxter and beyond. Greg, as always, thanks for you and your team for bringing such interesting people each and every year.
1:11:24Thanks, Greg. You're welcome, Bruce. Thanks for coming through. Similar vein, Mute That Guy says, thank you for your incredible content. The love you get from the industry and us best friends is proof you are needed. Well, thank you. And with your support on all our platforms, we'll continue to be around. Zeke Speaks Super Chat and says Cersei is one of the most beautiful, quietly devastating books I've ever read and Ishiguro is a legend, Barry Giant especially Amazing Rex, everyone check these out Here's my thing with Cersei, how much do I need to know about the Odyssey? You don't She does an amazing job of building that character up to get her to the point that she's willing to make that type of decision but you don't have to know that, I just set you up you're good.
1:12:08Perfect. Great. Great read. Okay. And then final one goes to rabbit of, uh, canter by nog, uh, 13, a team cherry is the goat selling 7 million copies within a few months. Lots of praise by critics and fans. And the cherry on top is the announcing the DLC for next year. Only a few days after the game awards next year, which of course, isn't wrong for what I had said already about it. Can't wait for pizza. And I'm not going to end up buying Bruce a pizza next year. Guaranteed. And in one year you can come back and give me the pizza. Put it in your calendars. So I know about that. And of course, put on your Steam wish list, Coven of the Chicken Foot.
1:12:42Coven of the Chicken Foot. I'm very excited for this game, Bruce. I'm very excited to continue making it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, the team's great. They're like hitting a stride right now. We've got some real, we're ending the year on a high note with this build that we've got and now the trailer. And then I just want to say thank you to everybody out there that's giving us like, it's unheard of, the amount of positive response that we've got from this thing. We know that we're not like, you know, AAA. We know that we're a very specific audience now. It's a different type of game that we're making. But the fact that other people, it's resonating with this other audience and that they're excited by these two and learning more about their adventure is, the team is jazz.
1:13:22We're super excited to come back into the new year and just hit the ground running. I mean, I can't say enough about how your guys' response really has an effect on development. It really does. What you guys put out there comes back. it really it's it's amazing i love that well thanks again for coming up and doing this everybody go steam wishlist coven of the chicken foot right now thanks greg follow bruce and all his social medias thanks everybody no problem thank you and thank you everybody ladies gentlemen and bees for watching remember that this has been kind of funny games daily each and every weekday we run you through the nerdy video game news you need to know about live twitch youtube podcast services around the globe uh if you like that pick up a membership patreon youtube apple or spotify and of course Remember, we're a business all about live talk shows, and that means the content doesn't stop.
1:14:08We're going to roll from this into the Kind of Funny Gamescast and run through every game coming out in January. Then it's going to be a stream. Already forgotten what it was, though. No, I almost have it. It's sponsored. What was the other sponsor, Kevin? Flip the thing. Make the thing flip. Is that on a timer?
1:14:32There it is. What's up on a galaxy? Yeah, that's a stream. Then after that, of course, if you're a Patreon member, we're doing... That's how it is around here. They knew what they were sponsoring. If you knew that, we're doing the happy hour over on Patreon. But for now, we will bid you adieu and say, until next time, it's been our pleasure to serve you. Thanks, buddy. Thank you, buddy.
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Team Cherry announces Silksong Expansion, we got some more info on Divinity, and Dead Island 3 is reportedly aiming for a 2028 release.
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Run of Show -
- Start - HousekeepingCelebrate the end of My Hero Academia with Mike and Barrett as they watch the entire final season live for the FIRST TIME this Saturday at 5pm PT. Live only on twitch.tv/kindafunnygames!Today after, KFGD, you’ll get:GAMESCAST - Every game launching in January 2026After Gamescast is a Sponsored Once Upon a Galaxy streamIf you’re a Kinda Funny Member:December Happy Hour is happening later today at 3:15pmToday’s Gregway is gonna be great!Thank you to our Patreon Producers: Karl Jacobs,OmegaBuster, & Delaney "The Somm" TwiningThe Roper Report - - Team Cherry announces Silksong Expansion, Hollow Knight Refreshed, And More! - Team Cherry’s Blog - A couple of Divinity headlines - Dead Island 3 is aiming for a 2028 release, with the sequel now the primary focus of the studio - Connor Makar @ Eurogamer - With 15 days left, Nacon confirms its Terminator game isn’t releasing in 2025 - Andy Robinson @ VGC - Wee News! - SuperChats & You‘re Wrong
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