576: Kings of Anglia: The wait is over - East Anglia is blue and white!

20:32Stuart Watson:Came at just the right time as well, didn't it? As you say, nervy start to this game, few errors, goal disallowed, get themselves in front from a corner. Okay, shake that off, move on, get in the, what's the word?

20:51Ross Halls:Not the hot seat, the driving seat. The driving seat, yeah.

20:54Stuart Watson:And then concede straight away, major body blow, how they're going to react. And then towards the end of that half, I'm just looking at it, 42nd minute, Josh Sargent sort of at the sea parted a little bit and thankfully hit a bit of a tame shot at the goalkeeper, edge of the box. Cernak rifled one just wide on 43. I'm not quite sure what the mood would have been at half time if they'd have gone in 1-1 or even 2-1 down. But then our moment comes and it's Jadon Philogene. And as you say, I've lectured on here a few times about lessons learned in terms of not judging people too soon. But I have to admit, I hold my hands up.

21:36Stuart Watson:I wasn't really having Jadon Filagene, not just because, you know, I accepted that he'd come in mid-season and he was a bit rusty and he was probably playing out of position and he was in the toughest league in the world while things weren't going well for it to switch. But I just, I wasn't seeing the off-the-ball qualities for him. You know, the nature in which he got injured, was it the Chelsea game where he kind of half pulled out of a tackle? You know, So Kieran McKenna was telling us all about his off-the-ball qualities, and I wasn't seeing that. But he has turned things around absolutely spectacularly.

22:13I mean, it helps when you're scoring weldies week after week, doesn't it?

22:18Stuart Watson:But his off-the-ball work has really improved as well. It's a hell of a strike. I'll pass it over to you boys. It was one of those. It happens once in a blue moon where I'm running the live blog and the social media, and normally first instinct, as soon as the ball hits the back of the net, head down, you're typing goal, checking the minute, what happened. This one, I just gave myself 30 seconds or so just to stop and applaud. This got me out of my seat and made me break press box etiquette. It was something very special, and we're going to remember it for a long time.

22:53Mark Heath:Yeah, it was an iconic Derby Day moment, wasn't it? I tweeted, goal of the season contender. Someone replied, contender? Yes, obviously, He was still early in the season. And at the moment, every goal he scores is better than the previous goal. So who's to say he hasn't got something even better in his locker? Left foot as well. Fantastic. Just for people's interest here, I bet people would be interested to know, what are the other goals you'd put in the pantheon of strikes that you've seen in your time covering town?

23:20Stuart Watson:Yeah, so this only goes back 15 years for me. There's people that go back a lot longer and will have other goals to throw into the mix. But the ones that always stick in my mind as sort of the technically the best goals is the Selina chip against Crewe in League 1 with the outrageous touch with his studs and then the high lofted lob over the goalkeeper. Wes Burns, Travella against Coventry in the Championship promotion season. The team build up to that, the outrageous outside of the boot finish would be right up there. Jens Kuyusta's goal against Nottingham Forest last season. I think that won Premier League goal of the month, didn't it?

23:56Stuart Watson:A bit similar to the Filagene one with the smooth spin before the kind of almost past bent finish into the top corner. That was a consolation goal, so I guess it loses a few points on that respect. But this one, I think just because of who it's against and what the game state was at the time, has to go right to the very top of favourite Ipswich Town goals that I've witnessed covering the club, I'd say.

24:24Mark Heath:Yeah. AJ, your thoughts on this goal? I make no apologies for spending a bit of time talking about this goal because it is, as you said, an iconic moment, will be remembered for years to come. It's the fact it is actually picking, if you watch it on replay, it's actually getting faster as it hits the net. It somehow picks up pace. Purely from aesthetic, it's beautiful as well. Yeah, and you talk about rifling the ball into the roof of the net. When you deal with football journalism, there are certain phrases that get carted out. That's a good one. And usually when you think about that, It's usually inside the six-yard box.

24:59It's a powerful strike. It's quite similar probably to Kipra's when you think about that phrase, about smashing it in, it's still rising, it hits the roof. But to have the technique to do that from, and I think we've had a bit of a debate on distance, I think we're somewhere kind of 25, 30 yards is the verdict, what we're going with. And to be able to do that is crazy. And in real time, it didn't look like it took a deflection. I've seen an angle. When you look at the actual replay, the TV replay, It looks like it takes a nick off Harry Darling. You watch it back, and it's the angle that you mentioned, the one where it's behind the goal.

25:32It's such a smooth shot. It doesn't hit anyone at all. It's totally clean. No deflection. I think it's the spin that also makes it, and there were a few in this game, the way that they kind of just sent Norwich players flying. One of my favourites was Kajusta did a spin. I know he lost the ball after, but he sent a Norwich player absolutely tumbling head over, which was funny. and the way that Philogene takes this one and just manages to take the ball off him with the spin. It's not a spin past the play. He gains possession by doing the spin to work himself into space. He kind of lines himself up and he has options either side.

26:10And remember, with Jadon Philogene's goals as well, they all have come from the left. They've all been brilliant goals where he's cut in from the left onto his right or done something like that or weaved in past the right back. This is such a central position. He had options. the bravery as well in a game like that to take aim like that um it ticks pretty much every single box for an absolute stunning goal and um i think that even people that have watched ipswich longer than stew have would probably have this one uh right at the top of best goals they've seen uh

26:44Mark Heath:scored by an ipswich player yeah and now you feel like he's up and running and he's you know his confidence could not be higher and it's something he's going to be able to carry through now he's not just kind of flashing the pan scored a hat trick and then he goes back to kind of struggling again he's backed it up and he's got goals brilliant goals in games that have been important for town and you don't get more important than this sort of goal in this sort of game um rossi you've watched ipswich for for longer than any of us as a fan where does it sit for you in terms of

27:15Ross Halls:best goals um that's an ideal an idea for a feature actually maybe if i look back so maybe something for our little chat after the podcast about weblogs and all that um yeah it's definitely up there um i'm trying to think the top of my head right now um weirdly sadly jimmy bollard's goal in the 5-1 defeat was pretty good but it didn't really matter because we were 3-0 down at that point um so that's probably the one i'm thinking of but obviously that was not a good salt. Jimmy Guan scored a free kick, but it was massively deflected. So, yeah, probably not that one. I liked Alan Quinn's goal in the last win, 3-2.

28:00Ross Halls:Giovanna did Santos setting him up and just a nice little finish. But yeah, sadly in my lifetime, there's not been many that stand out. But yeah, watch his space. I may put together a little piece on, you know, other good Derby Day goals, even the ones we lost in.

28:15Mark Heath:okay then um so that is tremendous jayden philagine that was something that we remembered for for a very long time and we'll talk about it again and again i'm sure and the highlight will uh will play on repeat two and a half time um classic another cliche next goal is crucial um and the second half it kind of felt like it was meandering a bit like it never really felt like town were secure because they always had it felt always like they had a bit of a rick in them and they had that vulnerability and there was another incident wasn't there with O'Shea in the was it Furlong in the second half or essentially it led to Palmer having to make a save um that he didn't need to make and that actually then led to about four straight corners didn't it um and also you'd have to say that George Hurst uh had quite a lot of chances in this game and and squandered all of them and he made it difficult for himself because he kept going wide wider and wider.

29:09Mark Heath:I don't know if it's because he was slightly worried about the pace of Cordova, who was mostly up against he was struggling with. But yeah, that was kind of frustrating, Stu, that they couldn't get that third goal because it felt like if they could, then Norwich would be done for. But the chances came and went.

29:29Stuart Watson:Yeah, it was a game that felt on a nice edge really all the way through until the the killer third from Ipswich, to be honest. I felt the underlying that Ipswich were the better team. But, you know, in the tension of the derby and the tension of playing out, let's give Norwich some credit. They pressed really well. They created some real issues for Ipswich. And there's a debate as to whether it was the right thing for Ipswich to stick to their principles and keep trying to force it and play out from the back, Certainly when the scoreline was so tight, I think Alex called it sort of heart attack football at times.

30:10Stuart Watson:And it was certainly squeaky bum time. There was a couple of real standout occasions. You've referenced them already. One, I think about half an hour in, in the first half. So that would have been at nil-nil with the first sort of little groans and moans came as it struggled to get out. And then early in the second half as well, the one that you mentioned, And Kieran McKenna loves it because he says that it's, you know, it's a sign of bravery. It's risk versus reward. If they want to be the dominant front foot team that they are, that's something that they've got to be able to maintain, regardless of whether things get difficult.

30:48Stuart Watson:And it doesn't get more difficult than trying to deal with the nervousness of a derby and a team pressing well. So he liked it. For me, sometimes I question the sort of the game management of it a little bit, where you're kind of two one up the crowd is a little bit jittery um is it wise to keep trying to sort of force it um look we're not football coaches i'm sure someone kira mckenna and co a lot wiser will sit down and statistically tell you that that's the way that you you force an overload and you get one or two men over and and it leads to the the quality of chances that you need to to score goals i don't know but it certainly had us all on on the edges of our seat the manner in which Ipswich approached this game.

31:34Stuart Watson:And as I say, it was like that all the way through until Ipswich got their third goal. Chances came and went. Norwich had their little moments here and there at the other end of the pitch. And yeah, I wasn't sure which way that this was going to go until the subs came on and did their thing.

31:54Mark Heath:Yeah, heart attack football, AJ. That's a good description. um what's your take on this because certainly i mean using that uh o'shea furlong snafu as an example they were going nowhere in that scenario you i was you know just just hope there has to be some kind of context doesn't there where you only bad things can happen in this scenario and that was definitely one of them you could see that happening before it happened um and obviously the principles of playing football is to be applauded and but surely there has to be some nuance to it as well yeah it's about being balanced and finding the right opportunities to do it ipswich tried to do it at blackburn at times and that was the absolute worst possible game to be doing that because of well everything we've discussed in the last few weeks and they would have been probably more successful in some cases if they just booted it long and i don't want to sound like you know someone in the crowd going boot it out but that's kind of how how you feel at times um i don't you don't mind the the heart attack football when it goes well and you're able to and there were plenty of times especially kind of when town were getting on top in the first half and some of the stages in the second half as well where they would play through norwich's back line all of a sudden they'd drawn the midfield out and there was acres of space to play the ball forward into and that comes from pulling people out of position by playing out from the back but norwich pressed a lot more than Ipswich expected.

33:20I think Ipswich's preparations for this game might have been in line with what I was expecting from it, which was I think Norwich are going to come here and set up pretty deep, low block, defend deep. I thought that McLean would drop into the back line. It would potentially even be a bit of a back five at times. It wasn't like that. They did chase and they did play a proper 4-2-3-1 and they did put pressure on Ipswich's centre-back. There's that sense of it. But yeah, definitely a case of needing to mix it up. They did do that in the second half to very, very loud cheers, having been almost caught out with a load of groans from the home fans playing out from the back.

33:57Then there came a point when the ball came to Palma and he just said, nah, screw this. I'm going long. Booted it. Huge cheers from the home fans. So yeah, it's about knowing and picking your moments. This was a difficult game because I'm not sure how prepared Ipswich were for Norwich's press. It's not something they've been renowned for. this season at all under Liam Manning. So it was just kind of a case of adapting to that and it took them probably into the second half to get to grips with it.

34:25Mark Heath:Right then, Rossi. So it was very much a 2-1 squeaky bum time. Always felt like they might make a mistake, which let Norwich back into it. But in the run-up to the game, we said Town have got some clear advantages in key areas. Namely, we talked about midfield and the fact that overall, player for player, they were better. But the big one we talked about was the bench. the heavy artillery they could bring off the bench and so it proved to be the case in terms of winning this game sealing the points because you bring on the likes of Nunes, Azon um who else came on in that in that in that chain that first chain?

34:59Mark Heath:Jack Clark yeah uh who obviously got the goal but I mean they really made a difference the third goal was literally all subs um Nunes to Azon and I so badly wanted Azon to score so badly it would have been perfect Nunes to Azon 3-1. It wasn't to be. Obviously, Jack Clark gets another goal and he's now becoming a super sub. But it really did feel like when they made those changes it was like, well, they are just different gravy. They're going to pull away now.

35:28Ross Halls:Yeah, very much so. There are great attacking subs as well. There's not many teams in a division that have the quality that we have to bring on. Three different players as well who can... Nunez is a good defensive midfielder at times, but he can also attack very well. Jack Clark, he's got the skills, he's got the ability. And Azad is just a big lad and he just busts us around. And I actually remember just hearing it hit the post and that was actually cheered by fans. People thought that was in. And then obviously Jack Clark, then that's when the cheers went more. But yeah, that is going to be our wild card for this season.

36:11Ross Halls:We've said this before, and when we've been in League One and in the last Championship season, subs are going to be so important for us to kick on this year. I think Stu actually asked him in the press conference. Sadly, I haven't got the clip to play, but you asked him, didn't you, Stu? And he knows it's very important for this team.

36:29Mark Heath:Yeah. Stu, thoughts on the subs? Because obviously they came on and created the third goal between them. I thought Nunes was fantastic in a really kind of pressured environment. He was creating things left, right and centre, kind of running the game, in fact, when he came on. Azon I mean you call him a big lad Rossi and he is he's sort of barrel chested but he's not physically large is he he has this ability to be able to kind of win thing without even jumping he's got this kind of brilliant way of controlling his body he's clearly extremely strong and that goal is going to come and I think you know we could honestly have a chat maybe we will later on in this podcast around Hurston Azon and the dynamic there perhaps going forward but we thought the bench was going to be key Stu and it was

37:10Stuart Watson:Yeah and that's all credit to Kieran McKenna and his staff for already creating this kind of squad culture and that's what carried Ipswich to the double promotions that team kind of rolls off the tongue by and large with the top four of Broadhead Chaplin Burns, Hurst when fit we're not quite there yet with this new group but people do forget the roles of people like Caden Jackson and Marcus Harness and others that you know really were there when called upon came on made such a difference Kieran McKenna's referenced it and he's told the players he's got the stats that across those two seasons certainly in that championship promotion season Ipswich were top, not just in the EFL or England, but across the whole of Europe, were right up there in terms of contributions from substitutes.

38:09Stuart Watson:He feels that Ipswich were ahead of the curve when the new five-substitute rule came into play in terms of fully utilising that, in terms of your front four are told, 60, 70 minutes, run your heart out, empty the tank, and then like-for-like quality comes on and you wear teams down. They got so many late goals in that championship promotion season. The boot was on the other foot in the Premier League, where suddenly other squads that had built Premier League squads over four, five, six, seven years, multiple transfer windows, were then Ipswich would stay in games for a long period and then get blown away by the subs.

38:46Stuart Watson:That was just where they were in the food chain. But now back in the championship now, my word, that strength in depth is frightening, isn't it? And, yeah, that was the difference this time. On they come and Norwich had nothing left to give and Ipswich picked them apart. And then once that third goal went in, it was party time, to be honest. They were enjoying themselves. Hometails were up, started to try different flicks and tricks and different things and more goals could have followed, let's be honest. That was game, set and match.

39:16Mark Heath:Yeah, at 3-1, Norwich, the fight went out of them, didn't it? I like the way, and I don't know if this is specific to town, but the way that they refer to you're not a sub you're a finisher that kind of terminology and it it's something similar in baseball you have starting pitchers then you have closing pitches and the closers are generally terrifying they're the people who come on and throw like 100 mile per hour fastballs and become iconic in the game because they finish the game no one can hit them um and it i don't it is great to see that we're getting back to that aj uh thoughts on nunes as well because this was a huge game for nunes absolutely love the trot the trolling by the way trolling trolling why can't i say that that's weird isn't it um on the front of the uh of the program that obviously the the painting and louise who does those pictures we should try and speak to it yeah there we go because they're amazing these pictures are incredible um but it's perfect time perfect game to have that on and he and he came on and you know clearly there were quite a lot of people in that stadium we wanted him to fail dressed in yellow um but he seemed to thrive in the environment and as i say when he came on i felt he was really pulling the strings he did um first thing i want to say is we get the actual print or might be a copy of the print like a big poster up in the press room yeah louise's paintings and they are great and like being able to see them in full size that we have we've kind of got our our settled seats in that press lounge now.

40:42It's right by where that poster is. Yeah, I really like the way that they've gone about the programmes this season and the work that Luis does. They're brilliant paintings. And in terms of Nunez's role, we all kind of expected it. And I think it almost suited things in a way where there was questions in the build-up to this, will he start? Because he wants to play against his former team. And I thought, actually, bring him on against a slightly tired midfield, bring him on to what would be a huge reception bringing him on knowing that he'd be warming up on the touchline and he'd get all of the chants from fans and the club also bought into uh the chant as well which is great which is zombie by the cranberries in your head um which was great and they played that and we got that and the fans bought into that and it's all over social media and he loves it and he knows exactly what he's doing and um with that it was all set up for him and he thrived in that situation.

41:42The pass for the third goal comes from him. He's the one who creates the move, and he creates the move because he's able to manipulate the space. It's Darling who comes wandering out from the back, loses the ball. Nobody comes in to cover him because Norwich's heads have just gone at this point. I think they're tired bodies, tired minds. No cover there, so Matassiwa moves it to Nunez. Nunez manipulates the space so much in front of him to play Azon in, and then we've spoken about the goal. he loved I think stepping up for that free kick even though it didn't go in if it had gone in I think he would have needed a police escort out of the stadium to be honest to avoid the away fans I don't know what he would have done with the celebration he just thrived in it he likes being the pantomime villain in this kind of case he's bought into the rivalry and everything that comes with it and you saw that with the celebrations afterwards and what he brought on the pitch as I said against a team that was just dropping off and he's not 100 % either is he because we saw that in midweek he's not quite fully sharp and fully fit I don't even think just trying to build his way back up to what we know that he is going to be in an Ipswich shirt but coming on into this game in this environment in this situation I think was perfect for him so to play a part in the goal and obviously all of the narrative around the match I think was was perfect yeah he really

43:00Mark Heath:embraced it didn't he and thrived in that kind of cauldron of pressure and expectation but so we say 3-1 Rossi game over uh Julie was shall we talk about players who impressed us um because there were there were quite a few and chief among them I think you have to say Cedric Kipre um was sensational coming in starting in a derby obviously he's only what started once this season um comes in not only does he score but he's so cool and calm on the ball he pretty much dominated joss sergeant physically the guy is so strong there was a a bit of a pushing and shoving they hired on tv and i don't know if you saw this on your monitors boys with um i think it was kenny mclean and leaf davis in the box and they're sort of pushing each other back and forth and then keep i just what just literally just steps in and just shoves mclean and he just goes flying like a you know like he weighs about four four stone um the strength of the guy is sensational um what can you say about him Rossi because he's brought in we expect him to be a backup he steps into the starting lineup on in the biggest game of the season and doesn't put a foot wrong

44:10Ross Halls:yeah big Cedric you know solid as a rock um and yeah I remember I think it was you and also Stu put a picture of him and Harry Darling in the Swansea Cardiff derby um and yeah that was a battle and I know obviously he wasn't going up against Harry Dabbing because they're defenders but he was yeah Josh Sargent had nothing I think Cedric Capra he's still got in his pocket but yeah he's even thought as he mentioned he was a striker you know back in the day as a young lad so he's got that instinct you know when he's up at corners but he's just so composed on the ball he's just yeah he's just so calm and cool and collected and he's also just so smooth talking with that interview we played um so yeah jake greaves i'm sure he's like going oh damn it um because yeah kieran mckenna's got a bit of a headache um because cedric kipray he's proven you know uh man match awards uh next back to that as well because he got he got planned a match in the portsmouth game um so yeah good start to life for tedric i love cedric kipray stew um he's my

45:21Mark Heath:new favourite player. Where do you think this leaves us with the Jacob Greaves thing? Why do you think he was picked over Greaves in this game, first of all?

45:29Stuart Watson:Well, Kieran McKenna kind of referenced two things. One, his physical size. I mean, Jacob Greaves is one of his key attributes, is winning aerial balls. But really, his calmness on the ball, I think, in a frenetic derby full of tension, that was the idea, that he was someone that could just cool cool everything down and he certainly did that um we talk about heart attack football there were a couple of times where he kind of was borderline too casual he just about sort of turned turned people and one time he sort of squeaked a square pass cardinal sin of sort of playing it back across your own goal a little bit but he always just about made it work didn't he um a couple of points of order just because cedric kiprae played very well The next breath doesn't need to be that Jacob Grease is therefore rubbish.

46:23Stuart Watson:We don't need to go down that route. So that's the first thing to say. Another thing is, obviously, Cedric Kipre is now on a major high in terms of this performance and obviously getting the goal-capped hit. There will probably be a moment down the line, because of the nature of Cedric Kipre, that he will give the ball straight to the opposition or he will make one of those big slide tackles out of nowhere, like the big splash up at Ewood Park that might lead to a red card or something at some stage. We've been warned by West Brom fans that he is a very silky, cool footballer, big old unit, pretty consistent.

47:03Stuart Watson:But now and again, he will have a little moment like that. And that's something that we probably need to accept. So let's not be too wild with the highs and lows around these players. But in terms of who plays going forwards, I was chatting to Alex Mathey recently. I think it was up at Blackburn and he wasn't sure about the balance of the two centre-halves that feels Greaves and O'Shea are perhaps too similar. And maybe Kipre is a little bit more balanced alongside O'Shea. In terms of one, O'Shea can sweep up. He can go win headers. He can do more of the defensive side of things. And then Kiprae can be the ball-playing centre-half alongside him.

47:48Stuart Watson:Obviously, Wolfenden and Burgess were sort of yin and yang in the promotion seasons. I want to see two play week in, week out and build a partnership. I'm not into centre-halves rotating. But maybe Kieran McKenna will go down the horses-for-courses route and sort of parachute players in and out for when he feels, you know, different opposition suits it better. Remember George Edmondson sort of coming in for the odd game here and there because, you know, he felt that he was better suited at times in that Championship promotion season. But, yeah, in the driving seat, to use a phrase that I used early on or struggled to grab, Kit Price put himself there.

48:31Mark Heath:Let's continue this praise fest, AJ. Next, I want to look at the midfield, who expected to be a kind of key area of town strength in this game. And Azul Matasiwa, again, I thought was great. I saw some stats after the game. Actually, I'll bookmark them. Where are we? Ten ball recoveries, two interceptions, four blocks. Felt like he was everywhere. Again, I know there were a couple of times where he gave the ball away and that was frustrating. But again, I thought he was great. Jens, again, we've spoken about a couple of times he got himself into trouble. but he's so class. And in this game, I was really impressed with the defensive effort as well.

49:07Mark Heath:He made a couple of really key tackles at Jens. Do you want to talk a little bit about those two? I assume you were impressed with them. Yeah, I'm really impressed. I think, I mean, I'll start with Matasiwa. It was, in the best way possible, it was a bog standard, as all Matasiwa performance. This is what we've come to expect from him. It's exactly the level. and that is nothing but praise in terms of what he's able to bring where ever since that debut against Birmingham he's just got better and better and better now he's at a stage where these performances that are kind of solid eight out of tens just normal they're normal level performances for what we're used to um I don't think there's anyone better in this division at what he does which is just being everywhere covering loads of ground uh big tackles but also just making everything look effortless.

49:57And it was one of the things that I kind of noticed when I looked at the videos and clips of him in France is that he has all of these big numbers when it comes to defensive contributions. But there's a quote, isn't it, to do with centre-backs. The best performances from centre-backs are the ones where they don't come off covered in mud because that means they're not making last-ditch tackles and defensive actions. And he's kind of in that boat where he makes it look so effortless and he looks a level above because he is. and that means that when he's coming up against his opponents that he's trying to shield the back line and do all of that.

50:30He just looks clear and he's able to do it with such ease. Obviously, then there's the side of things on the ball, which naturally is going to be harder. High-pressing Norwich team trying to play up the line. So there were a couple of nervy moments within that, but I think overall really good from him. And Kijusta, I kind of, again, when I spoke about this game going into it, I thought that he would be the key because I thought he'd have a lot of time on the ball and it would be Norwich sitting off and the link up with Davis and Philogene down that left would be crucial. And it actually wasn't that at all.

51:06And it then became a really tough game for him because of that, because of all of his on the ball stuff, then becomes so much harder when you've actually got kind of players like Mattson, who was really on him and trying to press him and Topic doing the same thing, playing in that 10 role. So that became a harder test for him, maybe one that he wouldn't have expected in this, but he was still able to do all of those big spins and break into the final third. And then as well, as you mentioned, it was the last-ditch tackles. It was big defensive contributions. I've seen kind of suggestions that as good as Jens is, he's not the kind of heart-on-your-sleeve, big tackle player, is he?

51:44And I think he showed some of that in this game. He has got it. It's just not naturally within his nature in the championship.

51:50Stuart Watson:They look after each other, don't they? The two central midfielders. And that's what you need. If you make a mistake, your teammate is there to bail you out. I think the epitome was that early in the second half where Azor gave the ball away and Jens made a proper last-ditch kind of hooked tackle where it didn't look like he could really get to the ball, but he somehow managed to wrap his leg around, I think, Topic and toe the ball away. When he signed, he talked about sort of feeling that he was suited to English football and he loved a good old-fashioned British challenge. So he has got that in him.

52:25Stuart Watson:I think, remember, was it Manchester United where he made that sort of iconic last-ditch tackle as well? So he has got that side of his game to him. And likewise, Matasiwa, although his prime duty is to protect the back four, he's someone who can pick a forward pass and build attacks as well. So the two of them seem to be complementing each other quite nicely at the moment.

52:44Mark Heath:Yeah, he makes everything look so easy, doesn't he, Jens? So languid. and then Matissi will. Whenever you get a little close-up shot of him on telly, he's never puffing. He never appears to be tired in any way. Rossi, Sindri Valle Egelli started this game, just as Stu thought he might. Clearly a big game to throw in a teenager with the pressure of the championship record signing as well. I think stats show that he was the most threatening player for either side in this game. What did you make of him? Because going forward, obviously he's the future, you would say, on that right-hand side or indeed wherever else he gets played.

53:19Mark Heath:Thoughts on him?

53:21Ross Halls:Yeah, I thought as a 19-year-old lad, he showed some cheeky skills. There's a clip I saw this morning where he... I don't know how you explain them. AJ, you probably know a bit better because you're just not on your head. He kind of... He flicks it over his head. He brings the ball down. He's got the defender to the side of him. And instead of trying to turn it into space, he just flicks it over his head and runs down the other side. he's got that kind of bit of skill for a player of his size doesn't he he does yeah juggled would be the phrase

53:51Stuart Watson:I'd use there juggled the ball over the opponent's head yeah a bit like Gascoigne against Hendry at 96 Scotland yeah

54:00Ross Halls:yeah love that love that yeah that's why you're the right journalist I'm just the snappy snapper but yeah he got a little bit of slack didn't he with the Bristol City game because of free kick but I'm like that's just you know that's just that but in the derby for him to sort of start first of all and yeah he had a few bright moments and um yeah he's got a big future lads um you know he's he's got a lot of pressure on his shoulders a little bit with the price tag but um i actually bumped into him on the waterfront on um on thursday um and he was wearing a flowery jumper it's like a massive like blue flower on his jumper i thought interesting, very Scandi knitwear.

54:43Ross Halls:But yeah, I'm looking forward to see what else he can produce in the Itchers Township.

54:48Mark Heath:Siri, what do you think is the significance of it looked like Casey McAteer was going to come on and replace him. Ended up being Jack Clark came on and it was actually Jadon Fullerjean went out to the right-hand side, wasn't it? Do you think we can read anything into that in terms of McAteer?

55:06Stuart Watson:Probably not. No, maybe he's not hit the ground running as an Ipswich Town player. Not all of them are. Didn't have his best night on Tuesday at Bristol. So was that a little confidence thing just to hold him back for a week and then really sort of get stuck into him over the international break and sort of building him up again? Maybe probably a bit of wanting to leave Philogene on the pitch because he's a magic man who can produce something out of nothing. so I wouldn't read too much into that to be honest then Tuba Rappom came on was the fourth sub and he only came on in the 86th minute but he put himself about I can't remember he was squaring up to a Norwich player quite late on as well so yeah an embarrassment of riches really and it won't be like it all season they're in a place where they're pretty much injury free Wes Burns, hopefully not too far off as well.

56:05Stuart Watson:So throw another one into the mix. But there will be injuries. There will be suspensions. We've seen it in pretty much every season over recent years, certainly when the games start coming thick and fast. But for the time being, it's a nice headache for Kieran McKenna to have. We're going to keep debating who should start. Keeping everybody happy is going to be a challenge because it's one thing having that kind of squad unity. And I think I've referenced some players that were coming off the bench before. Someone like Akaden Jackson was probably very accepting of his place in the pecking order, for want of a better phrase, his role in the team.

56:46Stuart Watson:A bit different when you're trying to deal with all of these players, a lot of whom have commanded big money, have been key players throughout most of their career. it's a different conversation now for them to try and get their heads around that being their role but they seem to be making it work so far and it does seem to be that they're starting to get that that secret source that sort of first squad unity very much building again which is great to see I'm going to chuck you this one AJ

57:17Mark Heath:George Hurst, Ivan Azon we talked about Keepe and Greaves obviously Hurst has been the the starter and was expected to be the starter for the season. And I know he put himself around and got himself into threatening places in this game, but he didn't have his shooting boots on. And he's maybe not, he's certainly had an up and down start to the season. I think I can think of three or four chances in this game where he made things harder for himself. And had he been sharper with his taking of the opportunities, it would have been five or six one. And in the limited cameos we've seen of Ivan Hazan, he's hit the post twice.

57:53Mark Heath:he's shown himself to be extremely proficient in terms of the physical side of the game. Do you think that's a debate, a conversation to be had going forward or not? It's definitely a debate. I mean, Hurst in this game should have scored twice, I think. He should have scored up at Preston as well. Mr. Cittadine and probably has had a couple of other games where there were goals that he should have had. So I can't remember off the top of my head how many he's on, three or four. He should probably be three. He should probably be on six or seven. And to be fair, that will put you in the mix for the top goal scorer after seven or eight games, wherever we are now.

58:35I think that to support George Hurst, because I've seen a lot of criticism that he's faced, I think it's important to highlight the fact that he's starting against fresh legs. He's battling centre-backs. He's having to run from the start. Ivan Azan, as good as he has been, has come on against tired legs. He's been able to look at the moment when he hit the pipes. Norwich's heads were gone. They were absolutely finished at that point, Norwich. And it's Nunez's pass that opens up the space for him. And that allows him to have the chance. And you have to kind of factor those things in. Strikers in an Ipswich system in particular are not all about scoring goals.

59:17and I don't think it can be or should be underestimated the work that George Hurst is doing in battling centre-backs and coming up against Harry Darling and really trying to go for a head-to-head physical battle. The one time that we've seen Ivan Nazon, possibly the criticism I would have is that he kind of got barged out of the game by some, as I said, multiple times after the Bristol City game and described them as big, beefy centre-backs. That's how they felt, that's what Bristol City had. And I kind of thought that centre-hurst might have been better suited for that. Hurst also, again, played an instrumental part in a goal that I think should have been in the first half where he comes up against Harry Darling, and he's stronger than Harry Darling.

59:58And I don't think that was a foul, the one that Jadon Philogene fired in. So there's enough there for me to like what George Hurst is doing. There's naturally a debate about who should be starting. There's also, and this is the key bit, there's a lot of games coming up after the international break to kind of mix and match. and with a striker it's easier to do that it's not the same as she says with the centre-backs there will be chances coming up but Ivan is on especially I think on Tuesday nights look at that Charlton game for example we'll get a chance to start and prove his worth in kind of an easier game let's say at home where more chances should fall his way and then we can reassess from there but it's difficult when you're looking at one striker who's playing against fresh legs for an hour for 65-70 minutes and having to do the hard yards against someone who comes on full of energy against tired defenders, naturally there's going to be more to work with.

1:00:47So one to come back to, I think.

1:00:49Mark Heath:Stuart, you've unmuted yourself, so does that really leave me to believe that you have something to share with this?

1:00:58Ross Halls:Agreed on Alex's point.

1:01:00Stuart Watson:Agreed. No, I thought, you know, we talked a lot about lots of players in this game. I want to praise both George Hurst and someone who's probably gone under the radar a little bit, Sammy Schmoddix as well. I thought the two of them ran their absolute socks off, didn't necessarily get the rewards with goal contributions, assists or goals themselves, but they put the hard yards in. And as Alex says, you need those kind of starters to soften up the opposition for the subs to come on and do what they did. It's great that the subs get the headlines because I think that sort of keeps them feeling like they're contributing.

1:01:37Stuart Watson:but let's not overlook what those guys, the yards that those guys did. I mean, Hurst was constantly running off the shoulder, running the channels, didn't quite come off for him when the opportunities arose at the top end and no one will be more frustrated than himself. He's referenced it, as Alex says, he's left a few goals out there already this season but he's doing a lot of work for the team that shouldn't go unnoticed.

1:02:02Mark Heath:Sammy Smolik is definitely a good shout out to you because although he didn't obviously do anything, particularly in terms of highlight reel stuff, he was constant motion, wasn't he? Running everywhere.

1:02:11Stuart Watson:We talked about him being suited for Derby Day, having that little bit of grit about him. I think within the first few seconds, he kind of left one on an Orange player fairly early on to kind of set the tone of it being a Derby Day. He looked particularly fired up when I look at the footage of that O'Shea team talk beforehand. Swept in that cross for Hurst at the start of the second half, where Hurst probably should have done better. Thought he was here, there and everywhere. Thought he played really well.

1:02:39Mark Heath:Yeah, in terms of the press, he's really important, isn't he, as well? Because he closes down much quicker than you'd expect him. He's excellent at that. Rossi, give us someone else, if indeed you have anyone else you want to highlight before we start wrapping this up.

1:02:53Ross Halls:Darnell Furlong. It's such an easy word to say, but I still bet you.

1:02:58Mark Heath:You got it right, Darnell Furlong. Yeah, but I literally said it wrong.

1:03:02Ross Halls:I literally said Furlong. It's Furlong. Just solid once again. I think he'll go under the radar a lot because, yeah, he's a right back. He's not that flying right back. He's just that solid right back. And, yeah, I think once again, that was a sign that a lot of people going, hmm, was he needed? But so far, so good, in my opinion. And, yeah, I just thought we had a solid game. I thought we just had a nice little shout out to a right back.

1:03:30Mark Heath:Nice. Stu, unless you've got anything else in terms of notes from the game, what what does this put a cap on this what does this mean

1:03:44you've frozen i feel like you had more to say there i am i back you're back excellent what does

1:03:52Mark Heath:this mean and then you just ah yeah i didn't have a stroke that was the that was the wi-fi um friend in the wider context of it's which town they we you know you've covered them doing historic things, back-to-back promotions, playing in the Premier League and now they've finally, for the first time in 16 years, beaten Norwich. You spoke before this game about this being a huge opportunity to build bonds with this new group of players. We have the bus welcome. They've done something that even that double promotion winning side didn't do and they've done it with an iconic moment in terms of Jadon Philogene's goal as well.

1:04:26Mark Heath:So where do you think this kind of sits in the Ipswich Town journey?

1:04:33Stuart Watson:I think it's a very significant moment indeed for that for that reason we talked about being in this kind of in-betweeny stage I think for Ipswich fans at the moment pretty bruising six months towards relegation back end of last season then the mass exodus of the former promotion heroes a few niggling doubts for people have is the money been well spent are they any better than the players of old bit of a slow start to the season i think objectively when we all took a step back there's reasons for that uh birmingham away and southampton at home is probably sort of couple of the toughest fixtures that could have been given at a time where the squad was still very much in a state of flux and people were still finding their feet but naturally there was a little bit of uncertainty in the air and it was only going to take shared experiences to to kind of grow those bonds again between supporters and players and beating Norwich at home to make it three home wins on the spin as well I think that home record this calendar year has been a big part of that's where the majority of your your your fan base get to see the players up close and personal So they've had very little to cheer this year.

1:05:56Stuart Watson:So three straight home wins, a win against Norwich finally, as you say, doing something that the previous heroes weren't able to do. It feels like a big moment now and you can start to feel it. Players are starting to get their own chance that are established now. And yeah, players that maybe whose reputations took a bit of a hit in the Premier League, people going, are they that good? They're now starting to prove their worth. and Philogene's the prime example, starting to live up to price tags a little bit. So it feels like a very significant moment, not just for losing the record, but more importantly, for what it means for this, for momentum going forwards, I would say.

1:06:38Mark Heath:I also want to thank whoever came up with it in your head, Chant for Nunez, because all it's done is served to remind me what an absolute banger that song is. So good. Anyway, let's hear from you.

1:06:48Stuart Watson:I think it was the Ryder Cup, wasn't it? I think it was the Rory McIlroy chant at the Riding Cup, and that seems to have now kind of seeped into the football world. But it suits Nunes perfectly for this game, didn't it? Given I think he's very much in Norwich heads at the moment.

1:07:05Mark Heath:100%. Let's hear from Kieran McKenna for the final time about this win, and then we can start to put a cap on this.

1:07:11Kieran McKenna:Yeah, nice to have it boxed off. Look, I won't say it now because we've won. It hasn't weighed on me. I think we've been pretty happy celebrating other successes. I think the big thing is trajectory. As I said, we were middle of League One four years ago and Norwich were in their second of three seasons in the Premier League. The stadium wasn't anywhere near what it was today. The pitch was muddy. The dugouts were a tin shed. The training ground was a long way off where it's going to be and a lot longer off what it's going to be next year. so I think the biggest thing is the progress that we've made but I know how it is as a supporter and until you have that win you'll always get a year but down the pub or in the office or online from your rivals so nice to take that one off for them

1:08:04Mark Heath:Another one ticked off look how far we've come etc look at us all that sort of business unless you've got any other things to mention there's quite an important shout out we need to do to finish the show which Alex is going to tee up for us Is there anything you boys want to say before we get to that?

1:08:20Stuart Watson:Do you want to have a little discussion? Sorry. I was just going to say, it's very quick because we've already kind of spoken about him, but I do just want to mention him again. So impressed with Sindra Valarageli. I think he's so good. And I love when he cuts in from the right onto his left and delivers that ball over the top. I hope he doesn't become a bit of a one-trick pony in that sense. I'm sure he'll develop into doing lots of other things, but so impressed with what I saw from him stepping into a game like this.

1:08:45Mark Heath:Good, good. Stu what did you want to have a debate about

1:08:49Stuart Watson:Nunez did he cross a line with his post-match celebrations I've seen it labelled as classless in some quarters as Alex said he certainly sort of leant into this role of pantomime villain touching the badge winking down the lens talking about the colour blue it did raise a smile when I saw him waving the corner flag and sort of pointing at the Suffolk punch on it probably the bit that just tips it over is standing next to that the the banner of the tweet isn't it

1:09:22Mark Heath:what do you reckon i'm all for it i love it it's i mean sport is entertainment let's not forget um you know they're not doing they're not doing brain surgery out there we want to be entertained we want people to we want people to care we want people to get involved we want people to be able to cheer and boo it's a theater it's entertainment for me i'm all for that i don't think you know some people may get sniffy about it and say but for me that's why i watch sport i want to be entertained i want to buy into it can you imagine conor chaplin or sam morsey doing that in an

1:09:54Stuart Watson:opposition shirt and and how much the blood would boil if you were of an ipswich persuasion yeah but

1:10:01Mark Heath:it's not real is it stew it's it's it's theater it's fun for me anyway i mean i i accept that i might take a slightly different view because ultimately as we said sport sport matters because it doesn't matter that's why it's important it's just naturally part of the derby isn't it you want to buy into that i think conor chaplin would have done it if he scored against southampton to be fair but for um ipswich i think he always liked that one but um i mean in terms of that it's what you want to see and i have seen those kind of tweets where it's been mentioned oh you know class this kind of act how many times do we look back in in hindsight at for example Adabayor running to the Arsenal fans at Manchester City, running the length of the pitch to celebrate in front of the away.

1:10:45And we don't look back at that now and say, wow, it was classless. We go, wow, that was, and I'm sorry to use the term on the pod, but it was top-notch shithousery, wasn't it? Let's be honest. And it's just part of the fun. And you also have to be able to give a bit and take a bit back, as Ipswich and Norwich have done plenty of times within this rivalry. Norwich fans came with their plastic snakes and chanted at times about how they wished that Marcelino Nunez would be no longer. And if Nunez can bite back with a little bit as well, then so be it. I don't always think that it's a case of having to be the bigger man, especially in a derby.

1:11:22Enjoy yourself as well. And it's part of the, I think, yeah, I agree with Mark, it's part of the theatre of football. Not every week, but when it's something like this, for sure.

1:11:31Mark Heath:Yeah. I mean, somewhere I would say the line was crossed. He was in the Ryder Cup. but I'd say that was that was different because that became um what Rory McIlroy's girlfriend or wife getting hit by a drink thrown by an American fan all that kind of stuff that you know there's no place for that um and people lobbing things onto the pitch in this game again no place for that in in the kind of realm of Nunes picking up the corner flag and waving it and buying into that pantomime villain I've got absolutely no problem with that at all I love it feed me more inject it directly into me all that kind of stuff um shall we talk about this video that AJ got sent from one of his friends now this is extraordinary now um by way of setting this up i'll let you set this up uh aj but we know that ki is global it's worldwide it's it's you know it's a phenomenon shall we say we've had messages from all the corners of the globe we've had people messages from japan south korea australia new zealand loads in america all over the world um and generally speaking it's fair to say that you know um we get messages nice messages from people quite a lot but this one aj it definitely falls into the wow kind of box so if you want to set this up i'll play the video you explain who this is and what this is and then we can do the shout out yeah so i'll explain this first and we'll play the video uh i have a friend called connor who likes to just take himself off on random holidays just just on his own just just for fun i enjoyed when he went to hamburg just on the day flight there and back on the day fair enough and this time he decided you know where i'm going to go on holiday finland um with a little stopover in i believe it was estonia as well so he's been out in finland and connor's a big football fan big cambridge fan and uh he decided what else to do on holiday but go and watch some fourth tier finish playoff football fair enough why you're mates um yeah do you remember when i spoke about watching that player in the second the spanish yes yeah didn't you pay to watch the air okay well he paid yeah anyway he went to watch FC Honker, love that name brilliant name and when he went through he noticed that there was someone there wearing an Ipswich town coat and Connor, the extrovert that he is went over to talk to this guy and anyway I then get a message through saying that there's a video coming my way and well I think this is probably the best chance to play it let's play the video and then we can do the extras so Alex bereavement I'm not lying I'm here with Villa at FC Honka FC Honka and he's a massive it's rich man who wants to say something to you I really enjoy the podcast keep it up and if I can get a small shout out in the podcast after the Norwich match we will of course win so I'd appreciate that so come on you blues I'm absolutely staggered oh in the tier of lovely stuff That goes right to the top of lovely stuff, AJ.

1:14:25Mark Heath:He was right, of course. We did beat Norwich. Do you want to give him his flowers? Who was that? Yes, this is Villa, who I believe actually is working at FC Honka, who, as far as I'm aware, I think won that game as well. I think they're now going to go through to a playoff final. That's great. I know they've got some Ipswich links as well, which I'm going to tee Ross up to mention in a bit. But yeah, Villa, who just followed me on Instagram as well. I think he's written a book about flight simulators too. Has he? I think there's some tie-up with Leif Davis here. So we need to get those two to meet up, definitely.

1:14:58He'd been in England for the Chelsea game as well. So he's a good omen. And he will be back in England for the Wrexham game. We need to meet and have a pint because that is amazing. It's crazy that just one of my friends went on a random trip to a fourth-tier Finnish football club and bumped into a pod listener. I love that. It's great. it shows out koa is worldwide and thank you villa for really i mean derby aside making my weekend

1:15:27Mark Heath:because that was that was brilliant yeah villa you are a legend and thank you very much for listening and getting involved uh fantastic well see what are the links you were saying is there's

1:15:35Ross Halls:links from town to fc honker yeah obviously chef tacucci the flying fin uh he um his first management job was there and he uh signed pablo canago obviously there we go teammates and stuff so They had two which we've town links at FC Honk.

1:15:50Mark Heath:All FC Honk, aren't we? Anything else to mention before we take our leave? It's been 75 minutes, but obviously we've really enjoyed and marinated in the finally beating Norwich today.

1:16:00Stuart Watson:FC Honk, I feel like a team that Ipswich might run into in the Milka Cup.

1:16:06Mark Heath:Absolutely.

1:16:07Stuart Watson:Had that ever got to its conclusion, we'll never know what happened in that. You mentioned Shefke there. He was at the game on Sunday, wasn't he? Shefke, back in England. I think he's been away managing in Kosovo. So I'm hoping to catch up with him soon. I think he's looking to get himself back into football. Rossi, you put your hand up.

1:16:26Ross Halls:Yeah, yeah. Yeah, sorry. I wanted to, you know, be the quite young man as I am. Jim Magilton was also at the game yesterday. And, of course, he was the last Itridge manager to win a derby and also Northern Irish. So that's a link that Kieran McKenna's got, obviously, because he's Northern Irish.

1:16:43Mark Heath:I'm going to say this on the old young man, Rossi. you're sliding towards middle age unfortunately yeah uh friends this brings us to the end of a historic pod the first time we've ever been able to talk about this in the long history of the kings of anglia podcast and of course the kings of anglia actually now has a more significant ring to it in light of what happened at the weekend um just to remind us for our sponsors you saw us all drinking and getting a bit giddy uh about stardust spirits on friday night's live pod and if you did join us for that thank you very much hope you enjoyed it a bit too early for that aj or is that just the empty from uh from friday it is empty don't worry i drank it all this morning excellent well we're all celebrating aren't we um so use the code koa at stardustspirits.co.uk to get 20 off all their excellent alcoholic beverages there as i've already said aj always always talking about the the biscoff vodka which is award-winning uh the cask aged rum and the single malt are also excellent i can highly recommend those uh and also our latest sponsor our newest sponsor another suffolk firm rossi you've absolutely nailed the pronunciation i'm going to keep getting the reps in who are they just remind us molek you laugh molek you learn that correct uh and their website as we all know you don't need the www.bit because only grandad say things like that it's molecular-uk.com use the code k way 10 at checkout to get timson off all that excellent stuff anything else to mention boys international break now yay

1:18:11Ross Halls:shut up end of TV now

1:18:19Stuart Watson:what better way to celebrate a derby win than buying some Kings of Anglia merch let's be honest when we came up with the name for this podcast however many years ago it was Kings of Anglia didn't quite have the strength to it that we were hopeful of yeah look what have we got there we've got a hoodie we've got what did you have there a warm warm drinks mug what do we call those this is a this is a travel

1:18:46Mark Heath:coffee mug stew travel coffee mug keeps your coffee uh warm or cold or indeed whatever temperature you want it to be uh this is our this is our best-selling item this is the uh the kings of anglia trucker hat uh which uh we know is currently being worn in australia by one of our listeners because he sent us a picture and obviously the hoodies are also incredibly popular this is the Yeah, the blue one. I like Rossi's contrast one. He's got a black one. We've got links to that all over our social media. Great way to celebrate, Stuart, as you're saying.

1:19:13Stuart Watson:Yeah. Am I right in thinking, though, when we came up with the brand name, it was just for League One. Norwich were probably Premier League at the time. I think Norwich had the overall better record in the derby. We did leave ourselves open to a little bit of ridicule there. We just about got away with it because we said we're the Kings. And that's why the name is there. and history and all of that sort of stuff. But now there's no denying, is there, Ipswich Town are the kings of Anglia. No more straws to grasp.

1:19:47Mark Heath:You've been on the Stardust as well this morning.

1:19:49Stuart Watson:Yeah, see you later.

1:19:52Mark Heath:Friends, as Jimmy says, no more straws to grasp. Truly, we are the kings of Anglia. Ipswich Town have finally broken the curse. They've beaten Norwich City in the derby for the first time in 16 years. Everything is rosy in the Ipswich Town Garden. I hope you've enjoyed today's podcast, truly a historic podcast. I hope it's helped lift you even more at the start of the week. Have a great week, and we'll be back next time to speak to you all over again. Ipswich Town Beak knowledge.

1:20:32Thank you.

1:21:04Thank you.

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