578: Kings of Anglia: Our snap thoughts from Middlesbrough as Town falter at the Riverside

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0:57Hello, everybody. It's me, Roscoe, and welcome to our latest Kings of Anglia, Itchavichtown podcast on location. I'm here with Alex Jones and Stuart Watson. If you're watching on video, I went to Alex Jones, I looked at Stu, and then I went to... Anyway, as you can hear, my voice is pretty much gone, and we're recording this at what time, Stu? 11.40. 11.40. And our Premier League in Middlesbrough, Itchavichtown, of course, lost two goals to one. and hopefully you'll like this something a bit different. We just got from the ground, we just checked into our hotel and we're here in the cafe bar where we'll be having our breakfast, which I'll be smashing later, which something's just happened over there.

1:37Anyway, boys, my voice is nearly gone, so you're going to carry the podcast. AJ, how are you? I don't know, Ross, to be perfectly honest. I feel like the last maybe 12 hours of my life have been a bit of a fever dream, especially the last four or five. but yeah it's only football mate yeah came into things quite happy a bit of a buzz nice to be back at the football and now it's a bit sad and a bit deflated but I think we're both all three of us are at the stages where I don't really think we know what's going on and those are the best podcasts as well especially off the back of a defeat and a pretty frustrating performance yeah which we're going to get stuck right into but before that we're going to speak about Stuart Watson's guns if you're watching on video boom Stu how are you though?

2:24I'm all right, mate. Don't be sad, AJ. I can see over there the continental breakfast that you can get stuck into probably in just a few hours' time, to be quite honest. I can see the cornflakes, the cocoa pops, a variety of options. You've just named two series. You're still thinking about the bad news, aren't you? Come on, let's get into it. Yeah, we're going to get right into it. Also, big shout-out to our sponsors, Moleclu. no because of my voice I can't do that just come on shout out to our sponsors Molecular who do the best car products ever anywhere I don't know if I can actually say that but I think they do personally and also to Stardust Spirits do the hands somebody yeah if you're watching a video yeah Stardust Spirits who do in my opinion the best spirits local companies both of them we've been able to sample some spirits Mark Stardust Marcus sampled some car products and he says they're really good and yeah, we love both of our sponsors.

3:26Thank you for sponsoring us. Yes, thank you. Stu, town loss 2-1. Overall thoughts quickly. This is the stage of the night that people don't normally get to see of us where we're slightly... Fazzled? Yeah, I don't quite know the word for it. It's normally me that goes into the silly hour but I think it's caught on you too. Squash. Right. Right. Ipswich Town have lost 2-1 to Middlesbrough, their second championship defeat of the season. Struggles on the road continue for Ipswich Town. Still kind of getting my head around how I feel about that game because it was so close to tipping the other way tonight.

4:09I didn't think there was a lot between the two sides in general. But as Kieran McKenna said, too many mistakes, both ends of the pitch. And it's resulted in a defeat. Yeah. AJ, international break's done. We were obviously buzzing from the Norwich game and now we've sort of gone back to like, oh, God's sake. But, you know, overall thoughts on the 2-1 defeat? I thought a guy over there was going to attack us. I was a bit worried when he dropped us. I thought this team member was going to come on and say something. That would have been good. Sorry, yeah, the football. Overall thoughts on the defeat.

4:44Yeah, I came into it feeling quite good. I was wary of Ipswich on the road not being brilliant and there was something that I flagged where I said there's a lot of reasons to be positive but it's the away performances that we've seen so far that have concerned me the most I don't think they've played well away from home really in any of the games I'm not totally convinced by them and this was a continuance of that unfortunately there were enough reasons to be positive because I don't think Borough have been great in their last few games statistically not as good as as the table suggests, but they were the better team.

5:19I think they deserved to win, as Kieran McKenna said after the game. And they played well tonight, but they played well and capitalised on Ipswich being pretty poor. I disagree. I don't think they deserved to win, but that's just me. What do you think? Was it a draw on reflection? I think a draw would have been a fair result. I think Town, when they got equalised, I think they would have deserved to... No, not got equalised. When they pulled a goal back for Adar O'Shea, I thought they were obviously the team on top, and I thought they would have warranted an equaliser, but I don't think overall they should, yeah.

5:49I think Barra, they weren't bad. They weren't bad, but we'll get more into that, Stu. But yeah, an unchanged XI from the Norwich game. Obviously, big talking points was Sindre, Wally Aghelli and Samy Swadduks, they were sort of doubts going into the game, especially Samy Swadduks, who was seen with a boot, but they both started. They did. we wondered whether there'd be a little bit of rotation like you say whether certainly in Sammy Smodik's case whether he'd be wrapped up in cotton wool given that there's two home games coming on the horizon pretty fast but he's decided to go with unchanged team I think that's what a lot of people have been calling for to start trying to sort of bed in a team get some chemistry going

6:36so yeah I don't think anyone had too many complaints about that starting 11 and then the start of this game was pretty frenetic, wasn't it? It felt like a bit of post-international break energy waiting to come out from both sides. It felt pretty open. There wasn't tons of chances in that first 20, 30 minutes from memory, but it felt like quite an open game. It felt like my nil-nil score prediction. I was losing confidence in rapidly as the half went on. And AJ talked about a 12-hour fever dream. I would certainly say there was a good 15-minute fever dream at the end of that first half. I mean, smoke coming off the keyboards there with the live updates because, yeah, really from the George Hurst penalty appeal on 30 minutes onwards, it was like a basketball game, wasn't it?

7:33It was crazy end-to-end stuff. I mean, can we try and recap the order of events? I mean, I'll start with that one on half an hour. I think it's a Leif Davis cutback, isn't it? And George Hurst hits it first time, and it hits the arm of Alfie Jones, is it? Down by his side, slightly out to his side, but nothing drastic, but it clearly hits his forearm, forces his arm backwards. I lose track on what the letter of the law is now with handballs in the box, with penalties there was a stage, wasn't it, where it was unnatural position then I think they changed it to kind of if it's a hand, it's a hand and it's a penalty so if that is still the law then by the letter of it Ipswich should have had a penalty they didn't get one on half an hour and then as I say, from that point onwards it was just chaos It was.

8:29And when was the semi-smartics off the line? Was that... That followed, I think. We won't know because Stu brought the wrong notebook down. Bit by the curtain. Stu, yeah, it's got... I've got a notebook here, but this has just got some of my tax notes and stuff like that on it. Just general house admin shopping lists. So that's going to do us no favours here, is it? No. But from your mind, AJ, because we're only a few hours removed from the game, Normally we record this on a Monday And we've had a few hours Days now to sort of recover or not But this is a few A few hours removed AJ yeah give me a nice little snuggle If you're watching on video you can see AJ being a very nice You know younger brother Comforting me and all that But yeah Sammy Smollocks Needs that goal And off the line this one Yeah I mean from Smollocks' Perspective I thought that he did well i don't think i've seen sammy smoddicks get on the end of too many headers since signing for switch town or to be perfectly honest it is quite long football career given the fact that he's probably a little bit taller than i am um so i didn't think the headers would be his uh his forte but he gets he gets on this one really well he heads it up it looks like it's going in it's a really good goal line clearance from dale fry um part of it is a pass from george hearse that sets it up and it's again it's kind of what is the alternative the alternate universe for for george hurst where um on another day he wins that penalty uh that we've just spoken about on another day he gets that crossing for sammy smoddick since headed in he gets an assist and on another day well yeah he could have had more yeah so i'm just seeing a very nicely dressed man in a tux looking very good my friend looking good um stew where do you want to go from here sorry i'm I'm just derailing this podcast.

10:23I'm easily distracted. I would say this is borderline unusable at the moment, but we're going to put it out for the people anyway. Yeah, in amongst that sort of end of first half chaos, Alex Palmer makes four saves in amongst there. I lose track. Yeah, some of them very, very good ones. A few double saves, weren't there? Yeah. He was still on the floor, and it was like, boom. Yeah, there was two in the space of a minute. There was a Hayden Hackney one that I think took a low shot that took a bit of a deflection that he had to react really well down low to. One of them probably should have led to a Middlesbrough goal because Shrelick puts the rebound chance, guilt-edge chance over the bar.

11:12So Middlesbrough, loads of chances. Ipswich, as we've mentioned, have chances in their schmodics off the line. and then we get to 44 minutes and Ipswich do get a penalty. Oh, they do. Is it a penalty? Has the referee got the earlier one in his mind? It's pretty soft, but I think it probably is. Yeah, Leif Davis is fouled, but not fouled. I don't really know. It was right in front of me, but he just... But you should know. You've got the best of all of us. Yeah, but it's just like last minute, last ditch defending, wasn't it? It's a cross that gets deflected back straight to him. And because of his momentum, the defender is then the wrong side in the box.

11:56At first, you think he's run across his heels. I don't think there is any kind of contact on the heels from the one replay that I've seen. But what he does do is he has a tiny little tug at the shirt. And the referee is straight down the line of it. And I think he sees the shirt come out a little bit. It's fairly minimal, but it's a penalty. Yeah. I'm sure if it was the other way around, we'll be like, no, no, no penalty. By a note, not at all But yeah, AJ, big moment in this game George Hurst steps up I thought Sammy Smollett was going to step up He had the ball at one stage I thought, come on Sammy, get that first goal But now it's George Hurst And oh dear, my friend Yeah, I mean the first thing to say is I think across the two decisions At least one of them should have been a penalty So whether it's balancing out or not Then, you know, it's the football gods doing their work But unfortunately the football gods worked against George Hurst And they have kind of at times this season I think he's been unfortunate, even though he's kind of maybe not helped himself at times as well.

12:54This is a penalty that when you look at it, my first reaction was, a poor penalty, should be doing better. And as Stu says, if he dives the other way, he'd probably say, no, it's a good penalty, he's taken it well, he's given the keeper the eyes and gone the wrong way. So, I've seen worse penalties, for sure. I've seen worse penalties, scored, missed by Itzwich players. Sorry, Ali. sorry Ali that was the worst but it's just the last thing that he needed he wants to build up some momentum it feels like every time that he does he has a game where he's either quite anonymous or he just chases it doesn't work or ones where just nothing falls for him so in that sense he's just struggling to build anything and that's where you need things to go your way and this was a night where literally everything went against George Hurst I think unfortunately I saw Rich Woodward from Blue Monday posted a clip of George Hurst leading up to the penalty and he definitely looks where he's going to take it.

13:59I mean, that could be a double bluff, couldn't it? Sometimes penalty cases do that, sort of give the keeper the eyes and then maybe he was trying to double bluff or maybe he just telegraphed it too much. I don't know. When you reverse them back the other way, do you lose a little bit of power? He didn't hit it that cleanly. Wasn't right in the corner. Was it a reasonable height for the goalkeeper? Not the worst penalty, not the best penalty. As I said to Alex, the goalkeeper dives the other way. You go, send the goalkeeper the wrong way. It's not a penalty miss, it's a penalty save. But it's a glorious chance for Ipswich to take the lead right on half-time and that would have changed the complexion of this game because I felt like, you know, for all the talk about Middlesbrough being high-flying and as we sit here now, they're top of the championship table ahead of the weekend fixtures.

14:53They did come into this with one win in five to their name. There was a feeling that their form had just started to tail off a little bit. They'd lost to Bortsmouth last time out. And I felt a little bit of edginess in the crowd. A couple of times, a few times, they gave the ball away. There was a few groans. and I think if Ipswich had scored there, they could have really turned that home crowd. For half-time as well. Right on half-time and they didn't and then they compounded it. I mean, before we move on, George Hurst, you know, he scores the pressure penalty at Birmingham in stoppage time, opening day of the season, but then he's had one.

15:29Bromley, that was a save from the spot in the shootout and he's had another one saved here, which is kind of people are now revisiting, I think an interview that Alex did with him talking about that's my bread and butter was that Sky interview

15:46confidence strikers I think thrive on confidence maybe George Hurst has just taken a little bit of a knock at the moment he's how many goals is he on? three but he could easily have double that he's spurned some chances but his overall game just isn't looking at its sharpest at the moment so there will be a debate now undoubtedly going into these next few games as to when is even Azan's chance I would say and that's probably a valid one at this juncture so the penalty's saved and then I was going to ask AJ that question the big question what he's just sort of covered there Ivan Azan is it his time to sort of start, he started against Bristol City obviously we've got a three game week so yeah I love you staying deadpan into the camera I don't know why I'm just gone at this point yes absolutely 100 % you should be starting against Charlton Athletic in midweek I think that I'd go back to a similar team that played against Bristol City in that 1-1 draw I think that Pullman Road we'll come on to Charlton in a bit there's an opportunity there to build up some confidence and momentum for some players who maybe need it I think he's one of them there'll be some others as well and yeah it's a good opportunity for him and the fact that George Hurst maybe hasn't had the best run of games recently if he can come into the team in midweek start that one put in a good performance then he'll give Kieran McKenna a decision to make going into West Brom next week but for me definitely has to start against Charlton We're going to talk more about the game but you spoke to Ivan during the international breaks too what was that like and yeah check that out if you haven't read that already but yeah the Spanish striker how was he?

17:35Very nice young man, very humble, grounded young man. I can tell he comes from good stock and he puts real value in family values. His parents, his grandparents have encouraged him to have a well-rounded view on life. He's travelled, he's learned different languages, he's studying an industrial engineering degree that he's still hoping to finish this year. Devastly handsome as well, annoyingly so. and talks with real enthusiasm about his style of play, the way he likes to ruffle a few feathers and put himself about a bit and how he feels that's well suited to English football. And we're jumping ahead a little bit.

18:17I thought he came on and showed some of those qualities in the second half when he came on. Again, the subs made a difference, but we're jumping ahead of ourselves a little bit there. I just thought I was always talking about him. It was the time to talk about him 100%. But yeah, he will start one of these next two games and I think Alex is right. I think it could well be Tuesday night against Charlton. A goal is coming for him as well. AJ, Cedric Kipre. I don't want to say hero to villain because, you know, I know he scored an own goal, but, you know, he scored an, he's angling a derby win, so he's still a hero in our eyes, but he does put the ball in the wrong net to make it 1-0.

18:58Very literally, yes. Hero to villain is harsh. 0-0 probably in this kind of case is the unfortunate way of putting it look it was a pretty tough night for Cedric Kipre for both goals to be perfectly honest and this is one where I've seen so many own goals where you turn around you say it's unfortunate isn't it it's unlucky it's hit his arse and gone in or it's bounced off his head or it's ricocheted awkwardly this is a poor goal from Cedric Kipre unfortunately the ball comes in there's a bit of static defending it's across from the right and um as it rolls towards him i initially thought it got stuck under his feet but it doesn't he tries to to clear the ball it's a sliced clearance and it just bobbles into the back of the net um it didn't look like a ball that he was overly prepared for and then yeah just the way that he goes for it it's not not not good watching the only slight difference i mean first of all leaf davis gets muscled off the ball a bit too easily in the build-up to it.

19:56The cross goes through Jenske Euster's legs. Could he have done better to block it? Was that a little bit sort of powder puff attempt to block the ball? The ball goes through his legs. Does that catch Kipre unaware? Possibly, but he looked like he had his eyes down the run of the ball and he's just, like you say, he's just got himself in a real muddle, hasn't he? just just complete mishit and sliced it into his own net so it was interesting I shared some some stats about Jacob Greaves that I happened to see on social media a few days ago and how he comes out really really highly at the top of the championship pack in terms of headed jewels and ball progression and people have come back and said well that's just two metrics and obviously the eye test tells us that he's made some high profile errors that have led to goals and penalties has Jacob Grease so far, but that's told me that his overall game, and that backs up what I've seen with my own eyes, has been pretty solid, actually, and Ipswich in general, I think, have been pretty solid.

21:03The goals against have been moments, lapses in concentrations. Tonight, as Kieran McKenna said, was against the grain in terms of how open they were and the number of chances that they conceded, but there was, off the back of that tweet, it was suddenly Jacob Grease's error-prone, Cedric Kipre is not because he's had a very solid East Anglian derby and rightly so he was showered of praise off the back of that game but I do remember West Brom fans vividly and you spoke to many in the summer that says he can look like a Rolls-Royce he looks really calm on the ball he's obviously a big man mountain but he'll have some moments where you know he'll have a rick in him you know you only have to look back and he's had some some odd hand balls that he's conceded in the past and rash challenges.

21:52So I thought it was just a little bit black and white, as I've said all along on this podcast, that suddenly one player good, one player bad. It's not as simple as that. And we've seen that in a microcosm now with Cedric Kipre from Norwich to this own goal. As you say, hero to zero, a bit too black and white. But yeah, I mean, if you miss the penalty or you have the penalty saved, fine. At least go into the break level. that was a killer blow on what 47 minutes yeah because you're going to half time game plan changes I'm sure for Kieran McKenna always do this AJ this is my standard question how are you feeling at half time?

22:37a little bit all over the place because I think we were still catching up where the whistle had gone for half time and I was still writing about the George Hurst penalty miss I think at that point and by the time that I'd done everything including like formatting the photos ahead of the second half I looked up and the players back out again which did sum it up so I didn't really have that much time to gather my thoughts but I was probably thinking typical you know you've had all of these things happen you've had so many chances to score a goal and you've conceded a really really stupid silly one right on the stroke of half time but I was thinking to myself I know say the Bristol City game where players came on and made a difference, where they got that penalty to equalise.

23:22I felt like there was enough in there to come back into that game. So even though I wasn't exactly thinking, yep, Town are going to come back and win this, I thought that there was something they could take from it. Yeah. But obviously Borough made a 2-0. That first opening 10 minutes, Stu, in that second half, I just felt, I don't know, Borough just were really up for it, weren't they? Yeah, and Ipswich, again, were too open. And the second goal was hard to pin it on any one individual, but I just thought collectively they weren't tight enough. And, yeah, it's a low cross that Alex Palmer can maybe do better with, sort of pushes it out into the danger zone, and Morgan Whitaker takes the rebound.

24:08But, you know, you can always go back a phase or two earlier and they were played through a little bit too much tonight and a bit like the Bristol City game, they looked super vulnerable to rapid counter-attacks, whether that was ground passes, whether that was the long straight one through the middle.

24:31Defensively, that wasn't great and that is something that needs to be looked at because as an attacking force, they're not there yet at the moment. It's a new team. we've seen signs of when it does click and when the individual talent is on show it's a dangerous team but as a collective they're not there yet at the moment they're not in a position to go and outscore teams 4-3 and 3-2 in the meantime they've got to tighten up at the back they do and there's been a lot of people in group chats on me and they don't see identity there yet AJ what's your thoughts on that? yeah I think that's natural I mean, while Stu was talking, I was thinking about Middlesbrough, and I think that I see a lot of similarities between Middlesbrough, the way that they play, and maybe some of what I've seen from Ipswich in the championship, the last championship season, being quite direct at times, but also just the way that they can play through teams and that kind of cohesive nature, the way they know where everyone is.

25:33And I've seen them in a couple of games now. The one that stands out to me was they beat West Brom 2-1, and there's a move where they didn't create too much in that game but they just played kind of right to left, played through West Brom, Hackney gets the ball in the box, it's a back heel and it's swept in. And that's a team that, yeah, they've added in the summer but they've kept this core group at Borough over such a long time. Of course, they've changed manager as well but that's something that I think is helping them and we'll come back to this, we've said this for so long, the identity's not there because it's a totally new group of players.

26:05The identity was there in the last championship season because they played half a season under McKenna before, played a full season that got them out of League One, and then they had all of that momentum and the identity that they built and been able to develop from there. It's a totally different situation here. With that, you have to be able to caveat that your quality has to be enough, and it should be with the fact that you've got£20 million players on the pitch, and you have to be able to defend. And they didn't really do that. With the second one, I think, I'm not too sure about what the phases were before it, but you look at Kipre, he's played through with a 1-2, he's left totally out on that side.

26:41Leif Davis isn't anywhere to be seen. Dara O'Shea is static in the box as the ball comes in. Palmer, the closest thing he's made to an error tonight, I think it would be harsh, but maybe should be able to hold on to the ball. It's quick play that Ipswich just weren't able to react to, and that's where I see when I look at Middlesbrough, I think, wow, actually, you know what? there are some similarities to that cohesive quick attacking play that the dips which have no they're not outscoring but when they go forward i see definite kind of similarities within those patterns i'm gonna i'm gonna contradict myself from what i've just said to be honest actually because i say they're not in a position to outscore teams they could have done tonight actually when you think about it um we've mentioned had a penalty saved had a stonewall penalty turned down which could have been another one schmoddix had a that was a davis cut back to Schmoddix in the first half that was a really good chance.

27:37What else have we had tonight? Then O'Shea scores, of course. There was a spell where Clark almost set up Azon when they were chasing the equaliser. So there was enough good chances in that game. Sindra had a chance, didn't he, in the first half where he blasted over, but he had a chance. Yeah, from the half-clear corner. So there was enough chances in there, but don't put pressure on yourself where you have to convert three or four of them to be in a position to win a game. And Kieran McKenna said it afterwards, we can't keep going 1-0 down away from home. And probably all of the games, as he says, away from home, Ipswich have had chances to take the lead, not taken them, gone behind.

28:20And that changes, especially away from home. It changes the dynamic of the crowd. you know we saw it at Preston concede a penalty that gives them something to defend

28:33Blackburn in the abandoned game obviously that was a strange game but a similar situation Birmingham, what else are we missing? That's it isn't it? The league away game probably they've held behind as well I mean I know it's a different group of players but it's those same kind of patterns and there does come a point as well where, Bristol City of course is the other one, where no matter which players it is, it's something that Ipswich have to address where, take a side, everything that you do on the pitch, you can't let it become a mentality issue, you can't let it become a thing where there's a mental block that you have to overcome where they'll go into a game and they'll be big favourites and they'll fall 1-0 down against a goal that comes off someone's arse in the corner and they have that mental block to overcome it because the longer it goes on, the more it is likely to become a psychological issue and it's something that they will need to address sooner rather than later because we have seen things that I think have been psychological issues for Ipswich in the past.

29:32Look at last year in the Premier League. I know how hard it is in the Premier League but things like the home record and being able to do those things after a while sometimes I think there's a mental block there and there is an aspect that Ipswich need to be able to get that out of the way as soon as possible. and Stu I lost train of thought there for a second they didn't drop their heads though didn't they Tal I felt they weren't beaten at that stage because some teams when they're 2-0 down away from home as well and you've had the moments in the game you think oh they'll just drop their heads and that'll be done but of course they got back into the game with Daro Shea and at that point I thought as I said earlier in the chat I felt they were worthy of maybe getting an equaliser because they were pushing and the subs made a difference once again they did yeah and it's a set piece that leads to it the set pieces weren't that great over the course of the night, were they?

30:18Yeah, we need to address that. I'm sorry, Leif. Those set pieces, they need... One corner in my mind sticks in my mind where it just sort of went over everyone and out for a goal kick. There was first half, Filagene took a deep free kick quite early on and didn't really beat the first man to get it into the box. Davis off the wall. That was a really good opportunity, I think, quite early in the second half where Filagene and Davis were over it. Good opportunity, and Davis just smacks it into the wall. So they weren't great, but they do get the goal back from a set piece, and Nunez is one of the subs who comes on and makes a difference.

30:51Lovely header from O'Shea, isn't it? Beyond the near post, glances it in. And from there, all of that tension that I talked about, we felt in the first half could brew. I could feel it then. It just went very quiet in the riverside. And we were thinking there's still plenty of time here with stoppage time for Ipswich Town to get back into this. And I don't know how long that period lasted where they really pushed for it, maybe 10 minutes. the best chance in there was Jack Clark again, who injected some energy off the bench, almost picking out a zone. And then it kind of petered out a little bit, I would say.