579: Kings of Anglia: Unacceptable

26:13is there an argument that you've you know we're coming back to the the tactical argument now that

26:19Mark Heath:do you have to go with the back three for well this is the next conversation is it do you do you go try and sort of solidify it a little bit too much leaf davis leaving gaps at left back is certainly sort of an area of concern at the moment the two center half certainly when it's man for man and teams played two up front last like last night are looking a bit exposed um there's an argument for that he did it briefly in the premier league when i think post the newcastle home game leading up to christmas where they got done four nil changed to a back three for a period and that worked to a point um if you remember they went to arsenal and limited chances off the back of that um that suited walthampton as kind of a ball playing center half in a three no longer with us of course but keep pray could probably do that we've seen he's quite calm on the ball but then you're giving up everything you want to do as an attacking force and um it's how principled kieran mckenna wants to be here he believes in entertaining fans he believes in playing with wingers.

27:33He believes in having plenty of attackers on the pitch and on the bench. I think that really went against what he wanted to do in the Premier League. That was only like had to get really bad in terms of goals against for him to do that for a spell. And then in the end, he went back to 4-2-3-1. I cannot see for the life of me him suddenly switching to a back three and a solid midfield three of out and out midfielders and two up front because they've not built the squad in that way um yeah in football it's always how do we change the team how do we change the tactics to fix it all ultimately it's just got to be players playing a bit better and being a bit more focused and being um showing a showing a bit more heart when when moments go against them in games um it sounds really simple but i think that is the overriding factor here stop conceding

28:35Mark Heath:rubbish goals just do better football yeah so it's right we'll see you next week i mean you're coming back to the kind of the the personality of the side almost you and the you know you leaders who would you say are the you say are your shares the captain has to be a leader you mentioned Matisseva already um do you see anyone else kind of grabbing the game by the scruff of the neck and not not in a not in a Sam Morsi style and I don't want to keep looking backwards but Sam Morsi not only led through vocally through through words but you know he led through actions in terms of when the chips are down give me the ball give me the ball in a telephone box and I'll I'll muscle someone off you and I'll turn 360 and I'll come away with it and just calm everybody down a little bit and and I think he was someone that had good in-game intuition he was an almost an on-pitch manager that felt sometimes you have to feel when it's turning a little bit you feel things in the crowd and you then know to say right this is when we slow it down or this is when we speed it up when there's a when there's a low block and there's a bit of frustration come on we move the ball quicker now we take a few more risks and and conversely when when things are going against you and momentum is against you right come on let's be sensible here let's you know call one or two more into shape and slow things down a little bit and take your time over taking a free kick we don't have to rush to get that goal back straight away you need someone on the pitch to make those decisions the manager can't really do much about it at that stage in the when things are happening within seconds within minutes we're talking about spells in games um is anyone doing that on the pitch at the moment not in not in a Sam Norsi manner I wouldn't suggest um the leadership group Kim McKenna's kind of wanted to keep that in house he hasn't sort of said who who is in it I think when you look at the team photograph that's gone out you can get a pretty good idea because you can see who's kind of sat around the manager on the front row Dara O'Shea obviously as captain.

30:45I would imagine Ashley Young is in there obviously with his experience. I hope with him being on the pitch that that would be something. The reason he was in there last night was to bring a bit of that calmness and leadership to it. But even he in that second half was sort of uncharacteristically making some loose touches and getting sucked into all of that. Matt to see who will be in it yeah I mean we've heard from Leif Davis recently talking about how he now feels he needs to step up as a leader and has been asked to step up as a leader but I don't know if that necessarily comes supernaturally to him I think he's someone who leads by example but you know certainly not in a typical kind of leadership manner is he so yeah those sort of the those sort of attributes need to kind of emerge don't they yeah the other thing about

31:40Mark Heath:moors is that he obviously was a great leader on the pitch and on game days but also from you know various stories that we've heard from from from players who were in that squad he was also a brilliant leader day-to-day driving standards you know on the training pitch we've heard from george hirst clattering him on the first day and i had people saying well he's he's being a bully there more so he's been what's he what's he picking on but he's you know if you've ever been in a sporting context, you know that's challenging someone to stand up to you and kind of show their mettle and kind of that's the way you become part of the squad.

32:11Mark Heath:And you wonder, is there anyone doing that? I mean, clearly we're speculating now, but that's what you need. You need that kind of leadership in a successful team. Just going back to tactics, Stu. Paul Merson, and I don't want to give him too much kind of airtime because I think sometimes he's got some, what I'd describe as old school views around football, but he was saying after the defeat at Borough on Friday, oh, they showed them too much respect. I can't let you know. Oh, sorry. They didn't show enough respect. Town, they were too wide open. Do you think there's an argument there that maybe when they come up again?

32:42Mark Heath:I'm not saying it would have been the case last night because you're not going to set up defensively against Charlton at home. But when they face maybe the better sides, is there an argument to be more defensively circumspect? Yeah, there was an argument for the Middlesbrough game. certainly the sort of is it a bit naive to try and go somewhere like that and be wide open and go toe to toe the counter-attacking part is really i do agree with mckenna on this point that that has only really started to become an issue of late i think not just the last two games i think bristol city i would i would throw into that mix as well um even in the norwich game they They had sort of some decent moments on the counter attack as well.

33:30So that is something that can't just be sort of, oh, well, it's just a couple of games. It has been more than that. But prior to those matches at the start of the season, they were kind of moments out of context with games. And I'm not a big one for XG, as you know, compared to our colleague Alex, but the XG against did back up the eye test. that Ipswich hadn't been conceding that many big chances in games. The goals against come from moments, from lapses in concentration, from one direct ball out of nowhere and someone making a mistake, whether it be Jacob Greaves with the penalty at Preston or you mentioned the Derby County goals as well.

34:16But yeah, as you say, you're not going to, I don't think anyone could, even with the benefit of hindsight, which was just set up differently going into that game against Charlton. We're talking now a lot about the defensive deficiencies and the mentality deficiencies in that second half, but be more clinical in that first half and the rest of it doesn't follow. So Kieran McKenna's argument will be, be better probably at the first part and then takes everything else that follows out of the equation. and there is an argument around that. But as I say, while they're still getting there as an attacking unit, they've got to sort out the other part of things.

34:58Mark Heath:Yeah. And I suppose, again, looking... We spent a lot of time mentioning the promotion-winning sides because that's recent success. But, I mean, they did concede quite a few goals, didn't they, thinking back? But they were also clinical and they scored a lot of goals. Yes, they did. and that will then, I know now people will be saying, well, can Kieran McKenna set up a side to be solid? Can he set up teams to defend? Because as you say, they conceded a hell of a lot of goals in that championship promotion season, but were able often to outscore teams. And the games that stick in our mind are 3-2 against Southampton and 4-3 against Blackburn and these high-scoring ding-dong affairs where we'll score more than you.

35:42But what people don't remember as much is they did grind out. They showed a lot of heart and they showed that they could roll their sleeves up at times. And there was a lot of 1-0 wins on the road. QPR away, Southampton away.

35:56Mark Heath:Blackburn. Bristol City, Blackburn. You know, there was a lot of games like that. Clean sheets. It's the old adage about attack wins games, but defence wins titles, et cetera, that sort of thing. Got to get themselves a solid base and then the attacking side of things can flourish. Right, Stu, 35 minutes in, we've been pretty, how can we say, negative, is negative the word? Downbeat off the back of last night. Clearly, it was a bad result. But there's always a danger of knee-jerk reactions in football. It feels like every game in football now is getting more and more kind of blown out of proportion, every result.

36:46Mark Heath:But, you know, wider, bigger picture time now, Stu. They're 10 games in. They still have a game in hand. It's not like panic station situation, is it? Clearly, after a game like that, you look on social media and you've got people calling for all sorts of things, you know, which are objectively pretty silly but the wider picture we're not as i say it's not like oh panic everyone no i have seen it's felt like any kind of mckenna out stuff has been limited to the extreme fringes yeah up until this point but last night was the first time that i felt that some of that debate has started to permeate into the more logical reasoned part of the fan base I don't think anyone in that field that I've just discussed is probably at a stage where they're really making a strong argument for it but just starting to say hang about has the recruitment been at the level that's required now and that is i think we need a bit more time to fully assess that i mean last night for example as i mentioned in the bit that you read out that's almost 30 million pounds worth of center halves that's not quite looking like that at the moment and there's there's other areas of the pitch why as i said the two best attacking players both in the same position 35 million pounds on clark and philogyne why did such a big chunk of the budget go on two players that say play in the same position and so there's areas like that in terms of recruitment that can be can be looked at can he set up teams to defend have they conceded too many goals over a period of time people now pointing out the number of wins over since the start of last season slightly unfair because i I think obviously Premier League season is a big part of that.

38:47But as I say, I'm not going to, as long as people have those debates in a sensible way, I think there is a fairness to start having some of those conversations. It still feels a bit early to me with 10 games in.

39:05Mark Heath:It's fair to say certainly that he's got to sort it out. a big challenge ahead of him to turn this round again. This is a new challenge now, as we said. Going into this, this is completely different to the last time they were in the championship. This isn't underdogs with momentum. This is... These are the favourites. This is Target on the back. We're hearing every manager every week coming out with superlatives, waxing lyrical about Ipswich falling over themselves. What a wonderful coach. What a wonderful manager, brilliant players, but we're going to come up with ways to try and hurt them. And Nathan Jones sort of last night said, you know, I said to him, this is a great team, but let's really go up against them and see what they're made of.

39:53And we found out after, he said, after a dramatic pause. So teams are raising their game against Ipswich. They are changing their tactics. They are showing Ipswich a lot more respect. and this is where Kieran McKenna earns his corn. He became one of the highest paid managers in the Premier League last season when Ipswich saw off that interest and gave him a bumper new deal. This is now where he and the big money players and the more experienced players have to step up and show that's why they've been recruited and paid the money they are. Yeah, I'm not going to hold back on... I try not to be too reactive to things.

40:37It's only a fortnight ago that we're all basking in the glow of a, of a Derby win and saying, you know, three wins from four was it an unbeaten spell and they've turned a corner and the new team's coming together. And isn't this great. And now here we are having this conversation. So I don't want to get sucked into that too much. There's still a long way to go, but I think it's important that we, sometimes you've, you've got to maybe see a little bit of trouble coming down the track. and I'm just fearful sometimes you think, was the good games the anomaly in amongst this? And you've got to try and see where the underlying themes are.

41:14Ultimately, Ipswich have won three games and two of them against Sheffield United, who were in absolute disarray and the manager went afterwards, and Norwich, who seem to be in a really dark spot at the moment as well. So I hope that's not the case and I hope that this can be a sharp and a steep learning curve because it has to be.

41:33Mark Heath:There is a danger, isn't there, in constantly getting platitudes, people saying, wow, what a team, what players, that kind of stuff. You start to believe that. And I guess it's almost like a different challenge for McKenna in the promotion-winning seasons. He had to convince the players they were good enough. They could show they were good enough. And now maybe these players, he's trying to do the opposite. You're not too good for this level, that kind of thing. Yeah, that now needs to be the general theme of the conversation, I would say behind closed doors is these lot think you're soft. These lot think that they can get at you.

42:11You need to prove to them that we're not just a pretty fancy playing team that, you know, want to play with, just want to dribble and pass. And, you know, you've got to show them that, you know, we've got a bit about us on the other side of things as well. That would be the topic of conversation that I would be leaning into now going into these games ahead.

42:33Mark Heath:there's a great saying my granddad i think i mentioned it before he used to be a kind of a what you call an early strength and conditioning coach back in the day used to work with derby county and stuff and he always told me because i didn't have a lot of talent um he'd always say to me hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard um and that is an absolute truism i think in life and in certainly in sport um if that talent is not up for it isn't working hard hard work and and kind of desire goes a long way. So, yeah, big challenge ahead for McKenna. All that being said, Stu, another big game at the weekend.

43:09Mark Heath:They're all big games. West Brom are home. It's, you know, a good opportunity to write things and get back in the winning frame of mind. And if they do win on Saturday, you know, this whole conversation probably changes again. And we're going, ah, pretty good. They showed some character there. West Brom, though, what would you like to see in terms of a team? Because this feels like a big game. For me, you have to go with your strongest team. And we've already said that maybe he doesn't know what his strongest team is. What would you do in kind of the contentious areas, shall we say? You know, Greaves and Kipre and Hurst and Azan and McAteer and Aghelly and, you know, Philogene and Clarke.

43:44Mark Heath:I mean, that's an odd one, isn't it? As you say, the two kind of most informed players can't play in the same team.

43:54Mark, I haven't got a clue. I've not really thought about West Brom an awful amount too much. I'm still sort of, you know, I watched the game last night. I left the ground gone midnight, got home, put my laptop on. I wrote that verdict. It was early hours of the morning, went to bed, woke up, immediately have jumped on this to discuss about it a little bit more.

44:20Mark Heath:I'm not asking for a prediction. I'm just really asking you for who you'd like to see play. I know, and I'm trying to think on the spot what to do, really.

44:31Part of me wonders whether I'm just looking at West Brom while we're talking about their 4-2-3-1. I think I would stick with that, as much as we're talking about maybe putting a bit more of a solid base in place. I think I would stick with that. And I would try and pick the players that you think in your mind are the ones that you really want to establish. And if that means going with O'Shea and Greaves again, then that means that. Furlong back at right back. Walton is going to be in goal again. That sounds like it's a reasonable calf injury for Palmer. Matasiwa obviously comes back in.

45:21Yeah, I think you've just got to go Mattisirica used to. You've got to try and play them two as much as you can together as a partnership. And then the front four.

45:32Mark Heath:Well, Philogene's got to come back in, surely. Yeah, Philogene's got to start. But Clark was probably the only player that came out with any real credit from the game last night. I thought he was really good. I thought he was good in that opening spell when it dominated the ball. he was the one most likely to make things happen when the chips were down in the second half he was the one that kept wanting the ball kept wanting to try and take people on so it would feel really harsh to take him out but I'm not that keen on Philogene and Clark in the same side and shoehorning one of them in on the right hand side because they tried that a bit in in pre-season and the balance of the team didn't look quite right so that's a really hard call um but I think he may He may be tempted to do that, to be quite honest, because McAteer, he showed a bit more last night in the early stages, but probably not quite enough.

46:24I think I'd now try and stick with Akpom. I saw some more signs of what he was about last night. I think you brought him in from Ajax for a reason. You've got to stick with him. And then up front, did Azan do enough last night?

46:44or do you want to hang your hat on George Hurst and back him to play himself through a slightly difficult part of the season and go, we gave you the number nine for a reason, we believe in you for a reason, you've had a little dip out of the team, a little rest, now go again. Tough call that one.

47:01Mark Heath:I've seen some people saying, why can't ACPOM start up top? Killy, when he signed Kieran said he can play all four of the front positions and this and the other, Although we know he had this great success at Middlesbrough playing the 10, he has also played a striker. Do you think if they're even considering that, that's a massive kind of blow? What would two up front look like for Ipswich Town? Charlton did it last night. Not many teams do in modern football, rightly or wrongly, but they decided last night that two up front and going man for man against the two centre-halves with power and pace, in Nathan Jones' words, was the way forward, was the game plan.

47:37And it obviously worked. I think that's something that sort of underdog teams tend to do more. You know, he said we can't be as open and fluent and free-flowing as Ipswich because we haven't got the resource or the talent. So you have to find another way. So would that work for Ipswich? They haven't got tons of out-and-out strikers on the books. But as you say, you know, they've got Hurst, they've got Azon, Akpom can play up there. What would that look like? It would be three, just thinking out loud, it would be the three centre-halves. So then you go O'Shea, Kipra at the heart of it, Grease on the left-hand side.

48:15I could see that that might work as a balance in terms of left-footed, right-footed, et cetera. Davis looks like he'd be well-suited to a left wing-back that can get up and down all day and has got a bit more security behind him. Central midfield, you'd then be able to get Matasiwa, Cuyusta and maybe then Nunez in as a kind of a with the shackles off a little bit more as a playmaker then you could have your two up front as you say Hurston Azan or Akpom could be one of those two right wing back would be the issue I think looking at that system probably the most suited to it is Ben Johnson. He looks way out of the picture at the moment for whatever reason, but I think he'd be quite suited to a right wing back role.

49:08He's not fully trusted as an out and out right back, but he's got the physical attributes to play as a wing back. But for whatever reason, he's kind of been jettisoned a little bit at the moment. I know he came on last night towards the end, but he's not been making match squads before then. that's how in my mind a kind of a 3-5-2 system would look for ripswich um but i don't think

49:31Mark Heath:kieran mckenna's going to go for it no i'd be massively surprised but um interesting to think about isn't it stu at the same time i'll think about it um okay that brings us to the end of the kind of football section of the pod just wondering before we go i have to mention obviously a big fight for fabio wardley this weekend sorry that system that i've just outlined of course has no philagine and no jack clark in it who are the two sort of in form attacking players and that's what it will boil down to is that you're taking you know you've built a squad based heavily around wide individual talent players that can do things you switch to that yes it might be more pragmatic and solid but you're you're stripping away a lot of your attacking attributes so that's that's where that falls down but apologies yeah fabio let's talk about something a bit more uplifting yeah Good job we're not football managers, Ace.

50:20Mark Heath:Yeah, Fabio Wardley faces Joseph Parker this weekend at the O2. Second time headlining the O2. And this, in the kind of spirit of his career to date, is again the biggest fight of his career. Because he's facing the guy who's the second best consensus, second best heavyweight on the planet behind Alexander Usyk, who holds all the belts. And if he beats Parker, then in theory, Usyk would be the next fight. And Usyk has actually come out this morning, so he doesn't want to fight Tyson Fury again, because he's already whooped him twice. And frankly, I don't want to see that again, which would then lead the winner of this fight, you'd think to be next in line for Usyk, which would be insane.

50:56Mark Heath:That is indeed Fabio Wardley, given his background and the level that Usyk is at. So yeah, I went and did a little KOA special with him last week. There's a video on our YouTube and also the pod went out earlier this week to listen to. I saw Fab looking very relaxed and chilled out, as he always is, very confident. is there anything you'd like to ask me Stu about this fight by way of uh or do you want me just to kind of carry on rambling I'm just going to say the floor is yours break it down for me look I was there at Portman Road for the fight before um we know how that one played out probably out outboxed even as a layman watching on for the majority of that but the power punch comes from nowhere as as it often does what's this like stylistically as a fight for fabio does it does it suit him more well it's very similar stew um joseph parker is kind of similarly proportioned to justice hooney uh he's not a massive heavyweight he'll be a bit smaller than fab actually uh but he's also like hooney he's a very good boxer uh he boxes well he moves well he's fast and puts combinations together well crucially though you would say that he's kind of two big differences with Hooney is that he's massively more experienced.

52:11Mark Heath:This is a guy who has been world champion, was world champion. When Fabio, I don't think it even had even started boxing. He was world champion. He lost his belt to Anthony Joshua. He's been in with a who's who of the best in the world. Parker, he's fought and beaten Deontay Wilder. He's been in there with Zili Zhang, who's a big power puncher. He's been in with Andy Ruiz, the guy who upset Anthony Joshua and took his belts. He's beaten him. on form you'd say he's the most in form other than usic obviously the most in form heavyweight on the planet with the people he's beating and he also crucially i think he hits quite a bit harder than hooney if fabio gets caught with the sort of shots that hooney was catching him with that's going to be trouble for him because parker has kind of fight ending power whereas hooney i don't think packs a lot of power at the kind of upper upper levels so it's you know it's a big test for fab he should be the underdog it's a massive massive step up he's gone in a matter of two fights he's gone from fighting fraser clark for the british title to fighting joseph parker the second best heavyweight on the planet potentially for the next fight to be olexandrusik and all the heavyweight titles crazy story um so i would say that fab is the underdog but i would always say with fab that you never can count him out because he has that equalizer you know the most kind of important

53:36Mark Heath:attribute, I guess, is power in boxing. The sheer violence of it. And Fab has that, that he can pull out at any time, as we saw. He can lose every minute of the fight and still be dangerous in the final rounds because he's got that otherworldly power which will always give him confidence. Finishing power and heart as well. We've been talking a lot on this podcast about that. He doesn't know when he's beaten, does he? He doesn't, you know, something in boxing, sometimes you see some people, they get hit, and it lights something in them, and they dig deeper. And he certainly is. I mean, he's shown that he can dig deep, hasn't he, through his short but incredible boxing career so far.

54:20Mark Heath:I mean, that's a great point to you. He's a natural fighter, you know, on top of everything else. He's clearly extremely, you know, athletically gifted, given the complete lack of amateur background. He's just a natural fighter. I've heard someone compare him to Nigel Benn in terms of being among Britain's most naturally gifted fighters. And Nigel Benn, I don't know how much you watched of him, but he was a big one for me when I was a teenager. He was so dangerous when he was hurt. Nigel Benn almost needed to be in a bad spot to become what he was. And then he had this remarkable power, again, like Fab, that he can clip you with either hand and take you out.

55:03Mark Heath:So be under no illusions. It's a massive, massive ask for Fab. I think a lot of people think that Parker will just outbox him and maybe stop him or win on points. And he certainly should be the favourite. But, you know, as I say, you can never count Fab out. We've seen that time and time again. And if he can catch Parker, Parker has been dropped. He has lost. So who knows? And if he wins again, you know, the movie continues. And the thought that we'd have a guy from Suffolk who only started boxing 10 years ago to lose a bit of weight, could then be fighting genuinely one of the greatest fighters pound for pound of all time in Oleksandr Usyk for all the heavyweight titles.

55:46Mark Heath:That would be that's if you saw that in a film, you'd go, that is ridiculous. We're in rocky territory here. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, 100 percent. so um yeah really looking forward to it but also slightly dreading it at the same time stew because you know as much as we try and stay objective i make no bones about it i've followed fab's whole career i feel like he's a friend you know i want to see him do well um so it's always tough watching watching him fight but yeah that's on saturday night so hopefully town beat west brom and then there's a bunch of players and mark ashton going to the o2 i understand going down to to watch Fab's fight on Saturday night.

56:24Mark Heath:If you can't be there, it'll be live on DAZN. I think the ring walk is set for about 10.30pm, so quite a decent hour. And actually, when we went down to speak to Fab last week, who should wander in to kind of say, oh, I'm up next? Wes Burns, to do a bit for town TV. So I think, I'm not sure if that's out yet, but they were about to film something with Wes and Fab. So there we go. Something to look forward to there. Stu, I'm not going to ask you for a prediction for Wes Brown, because clearly you've You've barely been awake since the defeat last night, and we are, what, three days away from the game.

56:59Mark Heath:So I'll just ask you if there's anything else you want to mention before we take our leave. No, I don't think so. Hopefully that wasn't too downbeat, too negative. I try not to go there too soon, but I thought last night that second half warranted it. That's not to say that the season is heading in a certain trajectory. There's no point us keep looking back to players of the past. This is the group now. Yeah, hopefully everyone can have a bit of a reset. Players crowd us over the next 24 hours or so. And we go again. That's the beauty of the championship. There's always another game around the corner.

57:41Mark Heath:Exactly. And as we've already said, if they get a result on Saturday, the whole thing changes again, doesn't it? The mood. Because that'd be a good word against a good side in West Brom. And God, they've shown some fighting spirit. what we do need to see stew though definitely is some sort of reaction isn't it that you know you want to see them flying out of the gate really bang up for it straight from the kickoff on saturday um showing that desire that heart all that kind of stuff that you've maybe said you didn't see last night and i think a lot of people would agree with you friends just to remind support our sponsors use the code koa um at starter spirits.co.uk for 20 off all their excellent alcoholic beverages and also our newest sponsor is molecular uk uh they're at molecular-uk.com where you can use the code KOA10 for 10 % off all their cleaning products.

58:25Mark Heath:And I've got a whole box full of them that I'm going to get bang stuck into to clean up the old Heathmobile and make it look a bit more respectable. So, yeah, thanks for supporting us, guys. Always great to have Suffolk businesses involved. Also, friends, if you leave us a five-star review on iTunes, that'd be great. Just lift us visibility-wise in the charts and give us a follow on all social medias, Kings of Anger on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, X, TikTok, and me, Rossi, and AJ all individually on Blue Sky. Friends, as Stewie says, I hope you didn't find this too deflating, but it was kind of a necessary kind of counselling group therapy session, I think, after last night.

59:03Mark Heath:As Stewie says, there's still lots of football left to be played, and that is the beauty of the sport. It will all get again on Saturday when Tower will go again, and we'll be back again next week to break it all down, whatever happens. Have a great weekend. We'll speak to you next time.

59:48Thank you.

1:00:14Thank you.

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