609: Kings of Anglia: A monumental waste of everybody’s time

21:11And this has been a season of fans having to work really hard

21:19Stuart Watson:to bond with a new group of players. And we've talked about it so long, about moving on from the past and this new group winning people over. And there's always been this sense of one step back, one step forwards, one or two steps back. And there was a chance to build upon Derby and start to build a bit of momentum at an important side time of the season and this has just felt like another little sort of dampener and again all of that sort of bubbling angst and worry um and concern gets brought right to the surface again so um that's what made it so disappointing um in terms of the team

22:04Stuart Watson:i step back and i look at it and you read it out on paper the first thing you got to ask yourself is was that team, should that team been good enough to compete and do better? Palmer's your first choice goalkeeper going into the season. He's only lost his place through injury. Kipra was obviously the one that has been a sort of fan's favourite and kept his place in the team. I'm just going through these in order of what's on the team sheet. These are in squad number. Dan Neal, I think everyone wanted to see him make his full debut. Valerio Gelli is the championship record signing. George Hurst went into the season, at least, as your starting striker.

22:41Stuart Watson:Jens Kajusta is employed by Napoli and was playing in the Premier League last season. Ben Johnson has lifted the Europa Conference League at West Ham. Plenty of Premier League experience. Casey McAteer, best part of£12 million. Jacob Greaves, he keeps£15 million. Tuba Atpom, former Championship Golden Boot winner. It's only Elkin Baggetts, the really sort of youth player, inverted commas, and he's not exactly a kid anymore. So it's not a team that's been picked that you can go, well, that's an absolute disgrace that that team's been picked and they've picked to throw the game. But it's throwing them all in together at the same time, which creates that sort of disjointed nature.

23:25Stuart Watson:I think there needed to be changes. I get the logic of certain people need a rest, Certain people need to be brought up to speed so that they're ready for when called upon. Is there a halfway house? I mean, the team that I predicted was eight changes, and that would have had Azor Matasi were still in the team. It would have had Leif Davis still in the team. Just one or two more of your kind of regulars, would that have helped the others and made it a bit more of a joined-up display and giving you that bit of extra chance? that would be my feeling, that it didn't need to be 10, maybe 7 or 8.

24:06Mark Heath:Yeah, I mean, my take on this is, am I sad that Ipswich Tannery got out of the FA Cup? No. Am I sad at the way they went out of the FA Cup? Yes. Not sad so much as just frustrated. Like McKenna said before the game, we're going to have a swing at it. They didn't have a swing at it. There was no swinging in there. They just went out meekly, timidly, almost apologetically, which I think when you think of all the fans that have paid all that money and taken time off and gone all that way it's pretty poor but equally I think don't hate the player, hate the game and it's not Kieran McKenna's fault that the FA Cup is basically a sideline competition now where there's really no money or prestige attached to it anymore and in the context of what's important getting promotion is you know, hundreds of times more important in terms of finances as well as everything else.

25:02Mark Heath:So, I think he did the right thing in terms of prioritising the game this weekend. But it's just sad that we've got to this point, I think, with the FA Cup where...

25:13Stuart Watson:Will it help this weekend? Because there's certain players now that have come into this game having not played for two weeks.

25:21Mark Heath:Yeah.

25:22Stuart Watson:It's not like Rexham go to Bristol City tomorrow night. So you can understand it a bit more from their point of view. When I talk about that halfway house of selection, they made five changes, but they kept with the same goalkeeper and back three that they normally play, which gives them that sort of consistency, that solid base. And then the changes came elsewhere in the team. But if anyone was going to make the number of changes, surely it would be more them because they've got a game on Tuesday night, which now have gone from the high of Derby. It's going to be a fortnight until this league game against Wrexham.

25:54Stuart Watson:and certain players in there have had sort of a fortnight off from playing and lost a bit of rhythm and that may be harmful. We'll see. Maybe they needed that rest. Maybe that's a chance to, you know, let their bodies recover after what has been a pretty gruelling schedule ahead of, again, you know, what is going to be a hectic period ahead. The proof will be in the pudding. This will soon be instantly forgotten about if Ipswich go and win on Saturday and go on a bit of a run. But what it has done is now put a bit of pressure on, hasn't it? There's no excuses now. Windows shut. You've made your decisions around the transfer window.

26:31Stuart Watson:You've made your decisions around what you've done in this FA Cup. You've got to go and deliver now.

26:37Mark Heath:Yeah. Well, that's exactly it, isn't it, Stu? We won't know really until after the game on Saturday as to whether it's the right decision or not. But as you say, if they go now and lose on Saturday, it just compounds things, doesn't it? And it adds to the, again, the kind of two steps forward, one step back, or in this case, one step forward, two steps backwards. if they lose again at Wrexham. Just generally, Stuart, on the FA Cup, as football fans of a certain maturity, shall we say, do you think there's anything that can be done to save the FA Cup?

27:06Stuart Watson:No, I think the horse has probably bolted on that front, to be honest. And it does sadden me as someone who, you know, as an Everton fan, I was 10 when they lifted the FA Cup in 95. and I remember getting up excitedly and watching the build-up from the minute it started on TV at like 9 in the morning and watching the footage of the coaches leaving and you'd have comedy sketches and FA Cup songs and all the family gathered around and it was such an event, FA Cup final, and it's just been, can't really put your finger on it, But over time, it's just lost its magic, hasn't it? I think Man United opting not to play in it was probably the first step in the early 2000s.

27:57Stuart Watson:Was that the Club World Cup or the version of it at the time? Semi-finals at Wembley takes away the showpiece final. the final not being the proper last game of the season anymore um games being spread over a number of days all spread over a number of broadcasters some odd choices from the terrestrial broadcasters just pick the the big names to get the viewing figures rather than the ties that we all want you know sunday i sat down and thought oh great i can sit down i had a few hours what game i'm going to watch and i looked through and i was like nothing's really exciting me i look at Arsenal already got 2-0 up.

28:42Stuart Watson:I can't be bothered to watch that. So, you know, you still get moments along the way. We had Maidstone, obviously, at Portman Road. We've had Palace being dumped out this year. But ultimately, you know that one of the big boys is going to win it. Everyone, you know, Ipswich won't be the only team that have made that number of changes this weekend. It will be replicated across the country. Unfortunately, yeah, money is king, isn't it? And that's what's created this, whether you're trying to qualify for Europe and how many teams can get into Europe now, plenty, trying to stay up in the Premier League, trying to get into the Premier League, trying to stay up in the Championship.

29:25Stuart Watson:Money talks and it's a shame the FA Cup has kind of gone the way it has.

29:30Mark Heath:Absolutely. It is what it is, though, as they say in football. The other big conversation I wanted to have, Stu, is I think it's something we've touched on a few times this season, but I think it's worthy of having now.

29:44Mark Heath:The social media discourse around players' performances and how fans interact with players or have their say on players on social media and how useful that is. Cole Fuller, one of our columnists, has written something today basically saying that it's got to stop this abuse of players on social media, particularly highlighting George Hurst who's kind of been the, I guess, the biggest target. So I thought it would be worth having that chat to you. Shall we hear from George first and then we can kind of talk around the issue itself? So this is George speaking to Brenner after the game.

30:24Stuart Watson:You look like a player that needs a goal at the moment, George. Yeah, you could say that. I think that's been something that I've been playing on my mind a little bit recently and I've had chats with the boss about it. Striker, you go through hebs and flows throughout your career, it's never going to be plain sailing the whole way through. I think it's probably the first period I've had since I've been at Ipswich. I found myself probably getting a little bit too eager and a bit too keen to try and get a goal and do something amazing and all that sort of stuff and get the fans on side and all this sort of stuff.

30:57But speaking to the boss and speaking to the coaches, It's just doing the basics. It's working hard. It's doing what I do for the team. And, yeah, the goals will come. And all I can do is keep working hard every day in training and, you know, putting the work in behind closed doors. And, yeah, like I say, if I keep doing that and keep doing the right things, then the rewards will come. How difficult is it, though, when there's flack and criticism flying around? It is what it is. I'm not really too bothered, to be honest. It's, you know, everyone's entitled to their opinion. When I'm scoring, you know, it will be good things being said.

31:29and when I'm not scoring, it'll be not so good things being said. And that's ultimately the life of a striker. It's not something I'm alien to. I've been around my dad a lot, walking through Sheffield when I was younger and I've heard a lot of things that have conditioned me. Like I say, people are more than entitled to say whatever they want to say. I take it on the chin. Like I say, if I'm not scoring and they want to say something, then ultimately then get back scoring and you don't have to listen to it. So, like I say, just keep working hard. All I can do is put myself in the right positions at the right times and yeah, the goals will come.

32:00Does your dad help in moments like this? Of course, yeah. You know, he's been through it himself. I think you speak to any striker, they've probably been through it at some point. You know, a little period of time where they've not got on the score sheet and all the confidence isn't flowing through your veins as much as it has done at times. Yeah, it's just a matter of, like I say, working hard. All you can do is keep putting the reps in in training and get to a match day and, like I say, keep doing it, keep doing it, keep doing it. It doesn't come off, it doesn't come off and you keep doing it.

32:24Simple as that. And yeah, the results will come, the goals will come and like I say, if I can keep working hard, then I'm not worried about that.

32:31Stuart Watson:And you know, it's like the chances are you get one, then you get a second, then you'll get a third in a few games. Yeah, of course. It's, you know, cliche, like London buses, you wait all that time and then the next thing you know, you get the one and you're off and running again. So, yeah, that's, like I say, life of a striker. I wish I could score every single week. Don't get me wrong, but that's not the reality of it. So, yeah, just keep working hard and put myself in the right positions in the goal of the call.

32:57Mark Heath:Okay, I mean, first of all, obviously, this is a wider societal issue. This is not just an Ipswich Town issue. It's not just a football issue, but it's definitely something we're seeing around football, getting more and more of an issue. And George there saying people can say what they want. I would slightly disagree with because I think criticism is fine, obviously. You can criticise people, but abuse is not. And we're seeing a lot of the time that line being crossed. and for me there's no way that helps anyone when we get to that point um what's your take on it all

33:36Stuart Watson:he speaks well doesn't he and i think it's important that people people hear that um and people read it and we'll get those quotes out as well um

33:50Stuart Watson:we've spoken about it so many times haven't we um it's very easy to forget that these are human beings that we're talking about they're kind of these you go to a football stadium and you sit up high and they're just people that run around in a shirt with a with a name and number on and you forget that they're humans that are going home and and and uh other things going on in their life and where do you stand on this? Because look, again, we talk about money. Money is everything in football with the FA Cup and how that's changed the game. Unfortunately, a by-product of the amount of money that sloshes around in the game and where Ipswich have found themselves in that now having got to the Premier League and had a taste of it is that you've seen it.

34:36Stuart Watson:There's more of a distance. A distance grows between fan base and players when there's a sense of these guys are driving massive cars now and earning silly amounts of money, earning as much in a week that you do in X amount of time or whatever. And that's not their fault, but it is a by-product of that. So I think that that is an element of it with football at the moment.

35:05Stuart Watson:It's not helpful, is it? look I see like the club posted yesterday happy birthday George Hurst as they do with all the players and you only have to go through and look at some of the response to that some supportive yes others you know sarcastic um it's always been the way in football hasn't it I think but that those sort of conversations used to be contained to sort of amongst your mates down the pub um and now they're kind of played out online in a public forum where said person can find them and probably don't have to work very hard to to find them so no it's not helpful if it's not something that you would say to that person face to face then maybe stop and have a think about should you be writing it on the internet is is what i would say look we've all we've all sat here and said yeah it doesn't bother me everyone's entitled to their opinion and i would probably say exactly the same in george hirst shoes and if you were saying about you know the thing but it's human nature of course it's going to affect you it just has to catch you on on the wrong on the wrong moment doesn't it where you're not feeling great about yourself and something might touch a nerve slightly it's not it's not helpful is it no i mean we get a tiny

36:33Mark Heath:taste of it don't we steve in the job that we do um and as you say it's human nature you can get whatever how many ever comments saying you know you're great but it's human nature to pick out the one that says you're not um and then that multiplied multiple times with the sort of things that Hurst is getting, that then becomes an issue. And it's going to affect your confidence. And he, as you say, he can't really say anything other than people entitled to their opinion. They are. But for me, it's a line between criticism. I don't think you're playing very well, George. I'd like to see you do this better, do that better.

37:09Mark Heath:And it just, or just straight hate, vitriol, whatever. And generally speaking, it seems like we're going down that line in society more and more, aren't we? heading towards almost people competing so you can be the nastiest, the meanest, all that kind of thing, which I think is a sad thing, a sad state of play when there are many other alternatives. And particularly, George is, what is he, 25, 26, 27? You know, he's slightly older. I'm not saying that that makes it any better. But the thing that bothers me as well is for Sindra, who's 19. And again, I don't know how much of the players see. And it would be quite interesting to ask them, maybe, Stu, if there's an approach they take with social media.

37:51Mark Heath:I think Leif talked about coming off it, didn't he, before when he talked about his kind of dropping confidence and people saying things about his family and this, that, and the other. But Sindra, so you maybe talk about Sindra a little bit, 19 years old, away in a country where he doesn't, I know he speaks English, but it's not his first language. Huge pressure on him. And again, it's not going to help him get any better in terms of crossing that line, in my opinion.

38:22Stuart Watson:No. No, it's not. I try really hard to put sort of a foot in both camps with this because, you know, we've talked earlier about how much money fans pay out to go to the games. And I think having made that journey to Wrexham at the weekend, you know, you set off at lunchtime on Friday. Some people will have had to take a day off work on Friday and have lost out on pay because of that potentially. Travelled up. There was a problem on the M6. I took the M6 toll. So that cost however much it was. And then you've got parking. Then you pay for a hotel. Then you pay for food. Then you pay for your match ticket.

39:07And we're talking, you know, you're getting into£100 plus comfortably.

39:14Stuart Watson:um then i saw other people like that have flown in from other countries for the game and stuff like that it's a lot of money so and i so i understand when emotions are heightened and you feel like you haven't your efforts haven't been matched by the efforts of the players in in your that's your feeling in that in that moment of course the players are trying it didn't work so I get all of that but then I try and look at it from a human perspective from the player's point of view

39:48Stuart Watson:and yeah I just know that you know if that was me I would probably 90 % of the time be quite good at making good decisions to kind of block it out not be on social media tell myself that filter out the opinions that matter in your life and those are the people those are your employers those are your loved ones if uh if it's good enough for them then you're doing a good job um but as i say it just takes it to catch you at the wrong moment um and it's not particularly helpful and you've got to remember you know ultimately you should be wanting you should be rooting for these guys you should be wanting them to sort of turn it around um so it's a difficult debate to to have because you don't want to you know i'm just mindful of what fans feel that they put into it.

40:40Stuart Watson:And of course, you know, we follow football too. It's a game of opinion. That's why we love it. And we're a big part of that. We provide the platform to discuss that. We discuss whether players are playing well or not. We grade them out of 10. We say all those things. But hopefully what we try and do is we say it in a constructive, productive manner. and yeah, I'll just maybe think sometimes just in the hour after the game, take a moment to breathe and then if an hour later you still feel strongly enough and maybe then take to social media and you might write it in a slightly different manner than you would in the heat of the moment.

41:18Mark Heath:Yeah, generally a rule for life, don't be a dick, I would say. Yeah. So fairly simple, try and be a decent, kind human being. Stu shall we move on I think that is an interesting conversation it would generally be interesting to hear further down the line as to what kind of stance the club take on social media and the impact it has on players I wonder if they do have like an approach that they'd share with us anyway we can talk about that on another day there's a big game tonight Stu in the Championship because while Ipswich Town were tumbling out of the FA Cup in a grimly predictable and fairly meek manner there were games in the Championship which means they're down to fourth in the league now.

41:58Mark Heath:Millwall gone above them, although obviously Town have got a couple of games to stand on them. And there's a big one tonight at Coventry, between the top two, a top-of-the-table clash. So, what do we want, Stu? The obvious answer is a draw, but do we... What are you leaning towards?

42:15Stuart Watson:Yeah, Millwall came from behind to win at Sheffield Wednesday. I was kind of watching that from afar, thinking, could Sheffield Wednesday do something against the odds? but no, Millwall come from behind to win, which is something Ipswich haven't done for a long time that people have pointed out. It's tight at the top end of that table now, isn't it? Middlesbrough 61, Coventry 59, Millwall 56, Ipswich 54, Hull 54, and then a bit of a drop-off to Derby 48, Preston 48, Wrexham 47, and then a whole bunch of teams around similar. So I think draw, to be honest, and just try and stay in touch with both.

43:03Stuart Watson:You want to be chasing down two, not just one. And if Middlesbrough go and win this game, and then I think their next two games are both home. Let me just remind myself of those because I heard talking about it on the radio about some favourable games coming up. Let's have a little quick look. Right, yeah, so Middlesbrough after tonight at Coventry, they've got Oxford at home and then Leicester at home who are in a bit of a state at the moment. So if Middlesbrough went to win those next three, if they won tonight and the following two, you start to worry that that becomes a bit of a sizable gap with the game starting to run out.

43:43Stuart Watson:So, yeah, a draw and trying to keep them both in touch, to be honest. yeah, I know Coventry looking the more more catchable, but cliche time. It's about what Ipswich do, isn't it? As much as we're worrying about the machinations of everyone else. Exactly.

44:03Mark Heath:I think that Sheffield Wednesday game, the game that Millwall won, I think I saw a stat there and that was the first time that Wednesday had scored at home for 11 games and they haven't won at home all season. And of course Ipswich Town still ought to go there at some point, haven't they, Stu? So, that's what happens there. Right then, friends, We're coming to the end of this podcast. Anything else you want to discuss, Stu?

44:27Stuart Watson:No, I guess we'll reconvene, will we, later in the week to discuss Wrexham Take-Two and who plays and what the reaction will be. But yeah, a bit of a flattening feeling after the FA Cup on Friday. And as we say, only time will tell whether this lingers in the memory or not.

44:50Mark Heath:What was the journey like with Ross, by the way? because you shared a picture in the group chat where Ross looked. It reminded me a little bit. There was one a few years ago of Hutchie sat in a pub kind of just bleakly staring into his phone. It looked like his very soul was leaving him. It was a similar picture of Ross.

45:05Stuart Watson:Yeah. Service stations are, I would say, always the moments where the job feels its bleakest, when you're kind of away from loved ones at the weekends, stopping eating some food that you don't even really want overpriced that's not good for you but it's pretty much the only option um you're a long way from where you want to be um so yeah that was on the way there which probably set the tone um yeah journey there was okay took about about four hours you get you get sort of past birmingham and you're going along quite smoothly And then the last bit where you're kind of going up through Shrewsbury and up through the A-Roads and roundabout after roundabout, that seemed to sort of take quite some time.

45:56Stuart Watson:I ripped my coat. I put a massive hole in my coat. That's ruined. I don't know how that happened. Must have caught on one of the chairs. It was very cold, very cold, as you probably saw in the post-match video. So all in all, pretty bleak trip, to be honest. Alex can feel very smug if he's listening to this at some point on his flight home maybe from New York you did well to miss this one

46:23Mark Heath:well luckily and thrillingly and excitingly you can go back this weekend and do it all again trip to Wrexham this time it's personal so we will see friends just to remind us for our sponsors use the code KOA at Stardust Spirits for 20 % off stardustspirits.co.uk for 20 % off all their excellent alcoholic beverages and also use the code KOA10 at molecular-uk.com for 10 % off all their car cleaning products. The banana dine, I keep saying, is generally almost life-changing for me. The inside of my car looks like, you know, when you get into a transfer from an airport, Stu, and the car is gleaming, you know, it smells clean, it looks clean, it's got a nice sheen to it.

47:04Mark Heath:That's what the inside of my car looks like now, and it's all down to banana dine from Molecular. So get yourself some of that.

47:10Stuart Watson:also the opposite of uh how the pool car was left obviously ross yeah i drove ross to wrexham and back uh he just jumped out the car yesterday i've gone to take it back to the office today um he's just left all his rubbish scattered across in the back of the car um i'd love to know what

47:29Mark Heath:ross's house looks like inside um does he treat his house like that i don't know but interesting and also friends obviously excitingly KRA live is what just over two months away now Saturday April the 18th against Middlesbrough is the game hopefully that day please Lord let it be that day £10 a ticket, tickets available now quite a few haven't gone already so if you do want to be there make sure you grab your ticket it will be the usual kind of mix of post game chat, hopefully post game chat questions, thoughts from the audience, lots of audience participation there'll be a strike in there there'll be games involving the audience as well Stu you're looking forward to getting back on stage I know you are someone who absolutely loves the limelight massive ego you were born to perform Watson I bet you can't wait to get out there again

48:20Stuart Watson:yeah we'll bring a bit more energy than this pod I've realized it's been a bit of an hour today so yeah we're hoping for a very different different vibe going into that one um middlesbrough what a game to pick for it um we'll have to see what the mood is like around that but either way it will be good fun i promise yeah stew speaking of mood and exciting things have you um have you got your metal detector out yet uh no no my uh no i don't know where it is my garage is an absolute mess at the moment do you now need a metal detector to find the metal detector in your garage yeah i've i've got into sort of a diy era now uh since hitting my 40s and um moved house last year i've now gone out i'm i'm collecting power tools a workbench i've got protective goggles uh yeah hands so i'm just yeah just doing woodwork now that's me nice carpenter watson just a humble

49:23Mark Heath:carpenter what is it what's been your biggest projects to you is there something you're particularly proud of i say have you done shelves shelves yeah shelves bespoke shelves though it's

49:33Stuart Watson:it's like a an awkward shaped cupboard nice um yeah i had to put together like framework for them and everything i'll send you some pictures mark you'll be impressed this sounds impressive

49:44Mark Heath:what's the um the wall chart you've got behind your students to have interest it's just my my

49:48Stuart Watson:my year planner ah i'm trying to try and get myself organized a bit more nice lovely stuff

49:53Mark Heath:All right, friends, we will take our leave. As Stu says, it's been a bit of a downer, this podcast today, but necessarily so, I suppose, after Friday night. I hope you have a good start to your week. We'll be back later on this week to start the build-up to the return to Wrexham. In a world where every town have just gone out of VFA Cup, can they make it worthwhile?

50:14Stuart Watson:Race course redemption.

50:17Mark Heath:Race course redemption. That's what we'll be building up to later on this week. Have a good one, friends.

50:28Thank you.

50:57Thank you.

51:29Thank you.

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