CNN: Trump’s Proposed Ban “an Illegal Assault” on Constitution

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0:44There's a reason millions of companies like Mattel, Heinz, and Allbirds continue to trust and use them. With Shopify on your side, turn your big business idea into... Sign up for your$1 per month trial at shopify.com slash special offer. Good evening, everyone. I'm Laura Coates. and you know I have been asked about this all day. So you know what? Let's just talk about it. That post from the President of the United States announcing that he is banning CNN and two other news organizations from the White House. Now, it's not clear what it actually means because CNN reporters were actually sold at the White House workspace as of this very evening.

1:21And the President went on to defend the stated ban in the Oval Office, including when he was asked if it would hold up in a court of law. You get so tired of reading and seeing fake news. But I think it's good. I think it's good to point it out whether it survives or doesn't. I mean, I don't think a court should allow. Depends on the judge you get, to be honest with you. I don't think that a court should allow fake news to be written day after day after day. It's sick. I mean, there's something wrong with a country that can allow people to write purposely negative stories. Now, if they want to write them, that's fine.

2:01But I don't have to let them into my into the people's house. Oh, you catch that? Yes, you do. The proverbial record scratch when he says my before saying the people's house. Now, that's the key to understanding all of this. You can tell someone to get out of your home. You can tell them to shut up in your home, your house, your rules. But when you're talking about the, you heard the people's house, we're talking about the government. And the government cannot violate your First Amendment rights. I know we all hear the words free speech all the time. And it is true the First Amendment protects free speech.

2:38But it's also true that there are limitations. You may be free to say what you want, but you might have consequences as well. Think of crimes like conspiracy or hate speech or perjury, right? You said what you wanted, but you can get prosecuted for what you just said. Let's talk about the government, though, and their limitations, because they can't be selective about who gets to speak freely in the people's house. Not when it comes to public spaces. And let's just take the White House and the press out of it for a second, right? Imagine the government allows people to hold rallies in a public square.

3:14Open to everyone, right? You know, let's just make it Pennsylvania Avenue instead. and someone from the government goes around and says you can speak so can you and and you and then they point and say but you know not you you can't speak I don't like what you've been saying that's the First Amendment issue that actually has a name as well it's called viewpoint discrimination silencing someone because of the content of their speech not just the act of speaking or because they weren't supposed to say it in a time or a manner or a place that the government chose. Now, the White House is not a public street.

3:51But you heard the president. It's the people's house. Yeah, I'm going to keep saying that. And if the government gives the access to the press in general, well, then you can't shut news outlets out of areas open to the rest of the press corps because it doesn't like their reporting at all. And tonight, CNN is putting out a statement. It says, CNN stands fully behind our White House team and their fair and accurate reporting. We have a right under the U.S. Constitution to do that reporting without hindrance or interference from the government. Should the ban which President Trump threatened go ahead, it would be an illegal assault on that fundamental and constitutionally protected right.

4:39Now, no one understands the pressure of a Trump-era newsroom better than my next guest. Marty Barron ran the Washington Post during the first Trump administration. He's also the author of Collision of Power, Trump, Bezos, and the Washington Post, and he joins me now. Marty, glad to have you here, but we are having a deja vu moment, it seems. The president has railed against the press ever since he ran for office, but this move is a real escalation in sorts. How do you see it? I think it is. I mean, I think it demonstrates yet again that there are no limits to Trump's aggressions against the press.

5:17He doesn't actually believe in the First Amendment. You know, he wants the press to be to serve as his stenographers or really his propagandists. You know, it's interesting that on his first day in office in this term, he actually signed an executive order. It was called Restoring Freedom of Speech and Ending Federal Censorship. But ever since then, all he's done is try to quash freedom of speech, to punish freedom of speech. And all he's done is act as a censor. He's engaged in all sorts of acts of censorship. And that's, again, what he's trying to do today. Well, here's a second, I think, trying to do.

5:54And that is to pressure outlets to start changing their coverage because they don't want to actually be next. They don't want to be restricted. It is a pressure campaign, right? It's an act of intimidation. He even says, I don't know if a court of law is going to hold this up. It's almost like I'll throw it out there nonetheless. Why? Because they've seen the pressure campaigns in other fields certainly impactful. Is that what's happening here, too? Well, I think he'd like to do that. But, of course, he's not going to achieve that goal. There's no way he's going to. I mean, look, look what happened at the Pentagon.

6:27The Pentagon ousted all the legitimate reporters because they wouldn't sign a pledge that they wouldn't report on or even ask questions about. subjects that weren't officially part of a press release, that weren't officially released by the Pentagon. Has that changed the reporting on the Pentagon, on the war in Iran? It has not. In fact, the reporting has been quite aggressive, quite energetic, as it should be. This country goes to war. There have been all sorts of reports that have talked in quite detail about how we got into this quagmire in Iran. So if Trump thinks he's going to change some behavior on the part of press organizations by excluding the White House, he's got another thing coming.

7:10Well, dig deeper for me because it might seem to people, oh, this is rich. You know, we're talking about the media fighting with the president and there is a head-butting happening. But this actually does directly relate to the American people. Explain to Americans why this matters to them. Well, look, freedom of the press is in the First Amendment for the Constitution. The press is actually the only profession that's mentioned in the Bill of Rights. And really, it's part of a broader principle, and that is freedom of expression for all people. But when, you know, James Madison, in talking about that First Amendment, he was the principal author.

7:55And he talked about the need for examining public characters and measures, public characters being our government officials and, of course, the president of the United States, who is the single most powerful person in the world. And I like to focus on the word examining, which is the word that was used by James Madison. And that means to investigate, to inquire into, to hold to account our most powerful public officials. That is the job of the press. That's the first assignment the founders of this country gave the press in this country, and it's why they provided for freedom of the press. There is no country in the world that has a democracy that doesn't also have a free press.

8:34A democracy cannot really exist without freedom of expression and without freedom of the press. There are those who might believe that that very notion requires universal solidarity. Do you think other news organizations should boycott White House events? Would that ultimately just hurt the public by reducing the coverage they need? You know, I think it's an interesting question. I don't know that it would be effective. I think that we have to cover what the president is doing. but I think by going to court the press can make its point. It did so during the first term Donald Trump's first term Jim Acosta was barred from the White House Jim Acosta at the time as you know was working for CNN CNN went to court they won in court and I think if the press goes to court now they will win again because this is clearly unconstitutional We shall see what the ultimate conclusion would be I can't imagine a court but, well, the president said they couldn't either.

9:38Well, Marty Baron, thank you so much. I want to turn to former chief counsel to Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, Alex Vogel, CNN contributor Lulu Garcia-Navarro, former chief of staff and advisor to the Biden White House press office, the embassy Aguawale, and former conservative lawyer turned Democrat, George Conway. He's also the co-founder of the Mark Pack. Glad to have you back here and talking about this. I mean, Alex, let me start with you. It's kind of unbelievable that we are here, and yet it's not too hard to believe that, in fact, we are here given the threats. But the White House is facing a lot of criticism and pushback from prominent conservatives.

10:15And Fox News says that if the president thinks this will lead to more favorable coverage, I think he is dreaming. That's Fox News' Brit. Why do this? So, a couple of things. Number one, let's remember this tension between the president and the media is not only not new with this president, it's not new with presidents generally. JFK tried to have The New York Times turn out of Vietnam because he didn't like the coverage in the Obama presidency. Anita Dunn said, I don't think Fox News is a real news organization. Don't call on him at the pool events at Treasury. We've seen that tension before. And until we know what the president means by ban, if he means, I'm not calling on you, and I'm not giving CNN or Politico or any news outlet a specific sit-down interview, I think he can probably do that from a constitutional perspective.

11:12If it's, we're going to pull the hard passes of specific networks because I don't like your coverage, I think the courts have been pretty clear on that, and I think it'll get resolved pretty quickly in that regard. But as I understand things right now, it's a little speculative. Everyone still has their passes, as far as I know. And so we'll see how that plays out. But I don't think we're quite at, you know, constitutional crisis. Really? When the executive head says there's a bad news? Well, tell me your responses, George. All right. I got a bunch of different takes, which a couple of them will be just agreeing with everybody, and one will be quite the other way.

11:45First of all, I agree with the legal analysis. I agree with your opening. I mean, you have to be contract neutral when you are dealing with the press and when you are dealing with anything involving free speech or freedom of the press. You cannot discriminate against one viewpoint and over another. That being said, I think you're absolutely right. If they were banning, if he was banning everybody, not giving interviews to anybody, not holding press conferences, he could probably do that. And I also agree about the importance of the free press to our democracy and to our society. And I believe that the concept of whether it be the Obama administration or or the Trump administration or any administration banning the press and not answering questions from the press, it's an outrage.

12:28That being said, I do not think that this is a terrible it's a terrible, necessarily a terrible thing what he's doing here. And the reason is he doesn't answer questions anyway. He's not capable. This president is not capable of giving rational, coherent, responsive answers to questions that are being posed to him. He just doesn't. If he's asked a question that contains any fact that is a factual reality that he wants to deny and he doesn't doesn't doesn't coexist well with his delusional brain. He won't answer it. But that's a cop out. And I'll tell you why I think so. I'm going to ask you guys to weigh in.

13:07And I think it's very valuable if that is how the president operates or how he responds or doesn't respond to questions. Part of the press's role is to show what the answer is. The press doesn't do it. Well, what press? You're talking about Laura Coates. This is press. What his answers show is that he's not answering the question. And that's very possible. No, what his answers show is that he is mentally ill. No. Yes. Yes. I'll go with it. Hold on. You're doing it. You're doing it. No, don't talk over me. Stop. Okay. What I'm trying to say is, when I'm talking about this, I'm not going to conclude somebody's mental illness because my JD, as yours, is not actually that level of doctorate.

13:48What I was saying to you, and I wanted you to explain a little bit more on this issue, is you're suggesting that because you're not satisfied by the answers he gives, he should be able to ban press because he doesn't want to hear it? No, no, I don't think he should be able to do it at all. I think that the press is not making... You just said that. I don't know. I just I don't think it's a great loss because the press doesn't do its job in asking the president and Marty Baron His book actually shows that he's a great journalist There's a whole chapter in his book where he was asked to by editors and others to talk about Trump's mental illness In response to an article I wrote in part in the Atlantic in the fall of night 2019 and they just wouldn't do it because we're not psychologists We're not psychiatrists, but as that tweet you showed is he is dreaming.

14:34He is delusional. What these answers, the press would be useful in asking these questions if they picked apart the answers and had experts say, this man is delusional. He's psychotic because he really is psychotic because he is out of touch with reality. That doesn't like the... And that's what makes this difference. Do you know what's problematic right now? What? It's psychotic to have these brilliant minds at the table and I can't hear from them because I'm only hearing from you. I'm sorry. Lulu, why don't you get your point in? Well, I don't even know how to follow that. Take it away. Take it away, Lulu.

15:08This is what I'm going to say about this. I do think I actually disagree with both of you for various reasons, which is this. The role of the press, among many things, is to be the representative of the people. We're in the room because people cannot be, right? We are there to ask questions, to work behind the scenes, to report, because the vast amount of Americans are not there to do that. And so when you ban a certain group of members of the press, you are saying to certain segments of the American population, I don't care about you. Donald Trump, the trick that Donald Trump constantly makes is that he tries to make it the people, tries to make it him versus the press.

15:54Right. And and that's not what's happening. It is him versus the people because we represent the people. And that's what infuriates me. Yeah, Missy. Go ahead. Excuse me. Well, I'll say somebody from just a staff perspective, having worked in a White House press office, that it is OK for a White House to get frustrated with the press. Yes, in Biden White House, we got frustrated a lot of times when we felt like they asked a question, the president answered, and maybe the response was misconstrued. However, it doesn't matter what the president responds. The press should be inside of there to ask the question.

16:27And I have to say, there are often times when the president can be doing a speech in a different room where you have to make the press pull smaller. You don't get to include all the press. That is so much different than making an outright ban. And you're right. We don't know yet if it's just he's not going to answer those questions or if he's going to take away the credentials. When we had conversations about having to take away a reporter, I would consider him a blogger's credentials that kept interrupting the press secretary, Karine Jean-Pierre. We went through White House counsel. There were weeks of meetings.

16:57We probably talked to every lawyer in Washington. This was just the president on truth social in what feels like a very abrupt moment. But can I tell you, and this I will agree with you, George, in this sense. Why is this happening right now? What was the thing that triggered this? What was the thing that triggered it? Because apparently, you know, it took members of staff by surprise inside the White House. And you only have to look at the polling numbers. You only have to look at gas prices. You only have to look at what is happening with the races. We are reflecting reality. Yes. And Donald Trump.

17:37I mean, Donald Trump is not embracing that reality and wants to. Exactly. Shut down the people who are actually. I want to go there. Stand by. We're going to come back and have more of this conversation. It's an important one. We're going to talk about this. The president is digging in on a number of things, including his name on the Kennedy Center and sparking protests outside. as one Democrat suggests, just let them do it. Plus a cautionary tale for the Pentagon, how an AI-assisted intelligence report got it wrong and really triggered a military attack.

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19:35Photos showed him reviewing potential plans to do just that. The president was asked about that photo today. Here's the problem with the Kennedy said. I should be very careful because Bobby's standing right behind me. And I cherish that, too. I actually like the name of Kennedy and Trump, Trump and Kennedy, because it showed bipartisanship. I can save it easily. But why should we be doing that and then raise money for the rest of our lives to keep it afloat? Because that's what you have to do if we get no recognition. I'm trying to remember the definition of public service. Hold on. Is it is it altruism and no record?

20:13We'll talk about it later. That's not what you can do for Donald Trump. Oh, are you quoting Kennedy? The irony there. Look, a judge did rule that Trump must give 30 days notice before any action is taken to demolish it. The panel is back with me now. I mean, George, I want you to jump in because you were there at the Kennedy Center tonight. What happened? It was a lot of fun. I think the thing that struck me the most was that there were probably 4 ,000 or 5 ,000 people there. Just guessing. I mean, literally. And lined up, you know, there are these barriers that are designed not to protect the Kennedy Center, but to prevent people from looking behind the curtain there to see the name Kennedy, because it's carefully designed to obscure the name Kennedy, because we don't want to see the name Kennedy if the word Trump isn't there.

20:59But there were 5 ,000 people against these barriers, and like three security guards standing in front. And there were no police to be seen except on the streets. Like, it was so peaceful, so, you know, and people were singing America the Beautiful. They were talking about the First Amendment and the Constitution and freedom of democracy and freedom of assembly. It was just a wonderful civic moment. Well, interesting enough, I want to play for you all what the former Obama advisor, Dan Pfeiffer, suggested. Give him that. Listen. Can I offer a solution to this problem? Yeah. Let him put his name on it, and then we'll just take it off.

21:44That's true. like why do we care easy one i like i think it's fine i think it's embarrassing for him i love him losing i love him just being just destroyed in his soul for not getting his name on it but if we're playing the long game let me put his name there better than letting him demolish it yeah what do you think you want to see yeah i i kind of agree and this might be a generational thing because i did see the protests outside and i thought it leaned more towards like the no kings crowd of maybe an older generation that feels very dug into this this is a threat to our democracy And I do feel there is a generation of folks who have had Donald Trump as president for 10 years and are tired.

22:22And maybe not every single battle, especially ones that happen inside the beltway, are large and impactful to the national conversation, especially at a time when we have consequential races at the midterms. So let him put his name on it. And if he builds up a ballroom, we're not going to waste the next administration that we have tearing it down just because he built it. There are certain stylistic things that I think the president is doing that don't reach as hard to certain groups of people. And so I'm in that camp. What do you think, Lulua? Is it something indicative of maybe the outside the beltway?

22:53Is this issue playing nationally on that issue? I think it has a lot of symbolism. I don't think I mean, I take your point. Obviously, the ballroom, not the ballroom, the Kennedy Center, Trump, you know, what does it matter to people? They might never go to D.C. to go see something at the Kennedy Center. But I do think symbolically it does a couple of things. It first of all shows someone who is obsessed with playing with his buildings and not really caring about people, right? And not really caring about addressing the many issues that are facing real people. So as a symbol, I think it does quite a bit of damage to this administration.

23:36And then I'd also say it's illegal. and the courts have ruled on that. And so what I guess... Because Congress has said that this is a memorial and it should be Congress's role to decide what name gets put on it. And he's demolished half of the White House and he's doing something without authorization. And the problem that we have with this is that, you know, how far does this go, right? I mean, if all of these things get eroded over time, it doesn't matter. Let him put his name on it. Oh, this other thing doesn't matter. And then you're in a situation where nothing matters. And there is no sense of how things should proceed.

24:20And certain people get to do things while other people don't. And that, to me, I think is deeply problematic. Alex, how does this, I mean, take us forward. I want you to respond, but take us to November as well. I mean, this is an issue that people are, I mean, it's not high or higher than inflation. But how does this help or impact Republicans in the midterms? I don't think it impacts anybody. I think if you went to the event tonight, my guess is it was a really big deal. If you live in Chevy Chase or Bethesda. Suburbs of Washington, D.C. The suburbs of D.C. No King's crowd. I don't think anybody in 435 congressional districts, especially the ones that are competitive, is going to bed tonight thinking, I'm persuadable, but I'm really focused on what's happening with the Kennedy Center tonight.

25:03But he spends a lot of capital talking about it. And so therefore, and this is his prerogative to do so. But I'm just look as to the question of, is this an impactful protest? Is this an impactful issue on the national debate? I think people are focused on what's happening internationally. They're focused on gas prices. I do not believe any persuadable voters are fired up about you. I don't think candidates. So did Marantua not thought the same thing down in Georgia? I don't think Abdul El-Sayed in Michigan is going to raise this in a speech or anything like that. I also think, yes, it's terrible.

25:38But will candidates pick it up and actually use it? No, they won't as well. Well, Senator, I want your answers. But Senator, really quickly, Senator Thune was asked if Congress may need to step in to rein Trump in and about the Kennedy Center. He said, quote, I hope we won't get to that point. that seems to be a strategy for some Republicans to hope that this issue goes away so that it does not take the air out of them in other areas. Okay, it's not about the Kennedy Center. And I absolutely agree with Lou. I mean, first of all, it's illegal. And this is the man who was sworn to uphold the laws in the Constitution.

26:07But what is that sublimat? And secondly, exactly. But this is the point. The second point, which is what you made, you talked about symbolism. It's more than symbolism, but you're absolutely right. It shows what he cares about. Okay? He is a narcissist of the highest order, a sick narcissist, and he absolutely does not care that people are paying higher gas prices, that people are paying higher grocery prices because of tariffs. You know, his defense department is lying about the number of people who died as a result of his war. He doesn't care about any of that. He only cares about a living memorial to himself, his 747 that he got from the Qataris.

26:50He only cares about his ballroom, his arch. He cares about putting his name on things. Well, we'll see at about 40-something days whether the American people care. Thank you, everyone. Still ahead, a new alarming story about AI being used in a faulty intelligence report that sources tell us almost started a war. I got the details on that next. and later the holdout juror in the Lindsey Clancy trial speaking out with a message for his fellow jurors and the public.

27:20Shipping, billing, admin, payroll, marketing. You're managing all the things. So why waste time sending important documents the old-fashioned way? Mail and ship when you want, how you want with Stamps.com. Print postage on demand 24-7 and schedule pickups from your office or home. Save up to 90 % with automated rate shopping. That's why over 1 million small businesses trust Stamps.com. Go to Stamps.com and use code PODCAST to try Stamps.com risk-free for 60 days. Well, CNN has exclusive new reporting tonight over AI use in the military that nearly led to armed conflict. An intelligence report circulated across the military in the spring falsely stated a Chinese ship in the Middle East was carrying components of a nuclear weapons program.

28:11Now, sources say the military immediately made plans to intercept the vessel with armed U.S. troops even preparing to board that ship until officials found out. The report was put together by an analyst with the help of an AI chatbot, one that misidentified the material on that ship. A source tells CNN the report, quote, quote, entirely false, and that it almost started a war. Joining me now, former Pentagon official and senior non-resident fellow at the Atlantic Council, Alex Pleetsis. Thank you so much for being here. I mean, how alarmed should we all really be by this reporting? I mean, could this really have started a war?

29:00I mean, it certainly had the potential to in the sense that, you know, it was a Chinese ship, and if we had taken military action against it, that could have then drawn a response from China. And then, as you just correctly noted, all of which would have been under false pretenses because this intelligence report was false and it was generated by artificial intelligence with placeholder data. What should the military be doing to prevent this kind of thing from happening or any close call like this in the future? Are there guardrails that could be identifiable and implementable?

29:34Yeah. And you know, it's funny that they exist and it's not all that different from what folks at home who are listening are experiencing. So if you're using chatbots in your own day job or if you're using it personally, you've ever asked it to generate something for you. How often does that happen where you end up with, you know, incorrect or placeholder data that's in there? Because the tools are still imperfect. You know, artificial intelligence is trying to get to artificial general intelligence or being as smart as a human in the next couple of years and then try to get to artificial super intelligence.

29:59But in the short term, it's still not perfect. And those same types of tools are being used in classified environments. They're just being hosted on a classified server as opposed to the stuff that you and I use every day in our regular lives. Well, can you give us a sense of how AI is already integrated into the military and its systems? This is one close call, but you said it's been used in the classified setting instead. How so? So in this particular sense, this would have been in a classified setting. So when you look at the military networks or across the intelligence community, for that matter, you have your regular unclassified Internet or your NIPRNet, right?

30:32Then there's a secret level Internet, which is a separate system. You have a top secret level Internet. And then there's other special programs that reside on different networks. They all have their own servers, but they're basically just computers that are connected through servers on encrypted networks. So it's no different in terms of computers or networks or servers than what we use as regular people, civilians, except for the fact that they're just encrypted and they contain top secret or secret or classified information. So the information that's flowing through the AI tools in those particular cases happens to be classified where it's just regular unclassified information that you and I would use.

31:06So, again, the same types of things that we experience during the day would be what they'd be experiencing in those particular cases. Something tells me this might just come up during that Trump-She summit next week. Alex, please, thank you so much.

31:22Still ahead, the lone holdout in the Lindsey Clancy jury breaking his silence and hitting back at the other jurors who openly criticized him. We have his version of what happened next.

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32:12So why waste time sending important documents the old-fashioned way? Mail and ship when you want, how you want with Stamps.com. Print postage on demand 24-7 and schedule pickups from your office or home. Save up to 90 % with automated rate shopping. That's why over 1 million small businesses trust Stamps.com. Go to Stamps.com and use code PODCAST to try Stamps.com risk-free for 60 days. Tonight, the lone holdout juror in the Lindsey Clancy trial is finally breaking his silence. He put out this statement through his attorney. I didn't have any doubts. As I tried to explain different possible theories during deliberation, I kept getting cut off as if I had doubts based on the evidence presented.

32:58Based on all the physical evidence, key witnesses, and what the prosecution presented, I thought it was enough proof that she, Clancy, knew exactly what she was doing and planned. The holdout juror came under a lot of scrutiny once his fellow jurors started going public. The foreperson said in an interview he, quote, admitted he had a reasonable doubt but still refused to find Clancy not guilty by reason of insanity. Another juror last week revealed to CBS's Gayle King that the holdout was a black man. His attorney described him in a statement as, quote, an American hero and champion of justice who supports our amazing leader, President Donald J.

33:41Trump, as a fellow defender of common sense, liberty and sanity, unquote. With me now, Foreign Master Chiefs Superior Court Judge Jack Lew, along with CNN political analyst and historian Leah Wright-Riger. Glad to have all of you here with me. Judge Liu, I'll begin with you, Your Honor, because the juror is disputing this public claim that he had reasonable doubt. Does that put to rest the questions about the judge's decision after speaking with the jurors not to remove him? It absolutely does. there was never any basis, I'm afraid, to the well-meaning but wrong-headed suggestions that the judge should have done more.

34:25The judge handled it exactly, which is delicately. That delicacy was perfect. That's the way he should have done it. And all of the talk about doing more was really good faith, but a mistake of judgment. Judge Lou, a YouTuber who spoke with the juror says that he insisted that he did disclose his arrest from a 2021 domestic violence misdemeanor charge, which was later dismissed. He disclosed during jury selection, the voir dire process. If he was selected while being fully transparent, is the fact of an arrest a problem? The short answer is no, absolutely not. An arrest, accusations or a civil restraining order, the violation only of which can sometimes be a criminal violation.

35:21All of that is these are all just civil or allegations of criminal conduct and are not a problem. It's a bit of a hysteria, I'm afraid. And even if he did disclose it, I'm afraid there's nothing that can be done. But if he disclosed it, it was nothing like a lot of folks thought at the beginning. It's a lot of well-meaning folks on social media trying to influence the legal system. And it's not a good thing. Leah, the YouTuber the juror spoke with, says this is the reason why he believes he's being targeted. Listen. he is a black republican he has conservative views he believes he might be getting targeted because of that i don't know if this is the reason he's not sure if it's the reason but he believes that's why he is getting attacked and this is also why some people are shocked that it's a black guy that stood his ground and not only that the world is going to be shocked now that it's a black guy who was a republican Leah, do you see this as an attack because of the jurors' political beliefs?

36:34So first, this is an absolute horrific tragedy. And I think it is just heartbreaking to watch this entire thing and to watch kind of the breakdown and ultimately the mistrial, particularly on behalf of those three children. and I am deeply sympathetic to all of the members of the jury, but in no way, shape, or form is this about whether or not this one holdout, this one juror is a Black Republican. In fact, no one knew that he was a Black Republican until he chose to disclose it to the world through a YouTuber in a series of interviews. Now, there is a world in which Black Republicans, Black conservatives can be and are oftentimes ostracized for their beliefs, ostracized whether it be from their racial communities or be ostracized because of their race, because for their from their political communities.

37:29But this is not the case. This is not actually what's happening here. Instead, what we are seeing is, I think, a breakdown from a group of from people outside of the spectrum who have no idea what's going on within these rooms. And yes, may be shocked that a Black person is what ended up being the holdout. But it's not simply about the political ideology. I think what's important to remember here too is that by politicizing this, explicitly politicizing this, this has taken this case to a different dimension. This trial now has a different aspect to it. And I think it's one that actually detracts from the overall complications and the overall implications from this case, right?

38:15It overshadows the ideas about the actual victims in this case by turning the juror into the victim, right? It overshadows what we have learned and what the country has learned about postpartum psychosis. And it's also overshadowed the fact that between 2020 and 2026, there's actually been an uptick and the number of men and women that are engaged in family annihilation. So we're actually hurting and harming their families and murdering, in many extreme cases, murdering their families. All of that gets erased when someone decides that they're going to make it about political ideology. Well, Judge Liu, as a judge, would you have reprimanded Clancy's attorney, Kevin Reddington, for calling out this juror publicly in open court?

39:02Or was he just being a zealous advocate trying to ensure that there was some what's known as a material necessity or lack thereof to call this mistrial? I would not have called out the lawyer, Mr. Reddington, because he's obligated to do that. He's obligated to throw everything, including the kitchen sink, in front of a and in the way of a of an incarceration of his client. But the problem, and I'll expand on that a little more, it's not Republican versus Democrat here that is the real societal problem. That's just the usual chatter. The real problem is that social media, well-meaning people on social media, including YouTubers and many thousands of others, are now trying to interfere in the legal system.

39:51And this case is the latest, but quite a very good example of social media, true crime interference with the legal system and with jury deliberations. And it's wrong. And the harassment of this juror, no matter what his politics, the holdout juror, it has been wrong. It shouldn't have happened. And we need to take action about this. Judge Jack Lew, Leah Ruger-Wright, thank you so much for being here. Right, Ruger, excuse me. Up next, it's time to lighten things up on the Friday night with the latest installment of one of my favorite series, Meet the Creators.

40:33Let's see your judgmental glare. Okay, it's a little dead behind the eyes. I need a bit more boredom, a little more disdain. Like, you looked at me and you already know I'm the problem. More like, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Judgmental glare, 8 out of 10. What, seriously? We are known in Brooklyn for our judgmental glare. you were there for a moment. Welcome to the Brooklyn coffee shop where the customer isn't always right. Pooja Tripathi, aka Time, is the internet's most over it barista and she has zero patience for the eccentric characters crashing her counter. The former corporate marketer turned content creator has racked up millions of views on social media with her Webby award-winning series.

41:16Her constant eye rolling has drawn in celebrities from and including Kumail Najiani and Padma Lakshmi, just to name a few. And Pooja Tripathi is my guest in tonight's Meet the Creators, where we introduce you to the people you cannot scroll past. I sure can't. Pooja, I'm so glad you're here. I love the work that you do. I think it's hilarious and witty and insightful, and I'm so glad you're here. So tell me, because you took a totally ordinary coffee run and turned it into a hilarious skit with characters that we all, who've ever gotten a coffee, recognize. How? I mean, first of all, thank you so much for having me and for saying all those nice things.

41:58I think, you know, I love satire. I love looking at the world and seeing kind of this is what's going on. And let's turn up a few notches. Let's turn up all the things you know about a character up. exaggerate them and kind of make people pay attention to the most ludicrous and ridiculous aspects of everyday life. And that's kind of the type of humor that we have on the show. And, you know, you just, you have different characters on. It allows you to talk about many different topics that I think are more relatable for people than I even realized they would be. They're so relatable. And I'm sure there's some coffee story and barista you were thinking about when you were doing this role and your path to content creation.

42:36It wasn't exactly planned. you were planning to go to medical school before deciding to take a very different path. So tell me what inspired you to make that pivot? Well, you know, I, so I left the medical school path very quickly. As soon as I realized that I cannot do needles, I can't even do the hospital lighting, like everything about it made me squeamish. So I decided to go into fashion and I was in the corporate world for a couple of years and you know, corporate isn't for everyone. And I think when you're like secretly a comedian in a corporate environment, that's something that's like always trying to burst out of you, you know?

43:11So I think I always knew I wanted to have a creative career ever since I kind of realized that wasn't going to be it. And, you know, I made a web series in the Netherlands in New York called Amsterdam Ave first. And that led me to get representation. And my manager told me, why don't you just try comedy? That could be your bread and butter, which I thought was ridiculous. No one had ever said that to me before, but I just decided to experiment on TikTok and And then, you know, landed on a few things that worked and ended up going in the direction of satire around characters in New York and L.A.

43:41And that's kind of what led me to starting Brooklyn Coffee Shop as well. I love that you bet on yourself. And I love that, as funny as you are, you thought that it was a crazy idea to do this full time. So tell me, for someone who is thinking about making the jump into content creation, who might be thinking of themselves in their corporate space, the only thing I like about my job is that my chair spins, what do you tell them? I would say if you're going to choose that past path, I would say really remember that there's going to be a period of time where you're not going to get a lot of societal validation.

44:15You know, you're going to leave this corporate company that maybe people know what you do for a living and they can understand what your job is. And for potentially years, for me, it was a couple of years at least, people will be like, what did you say that you do? And you're going to have to be like, yeah, I'm like an actor. I'm a comedian. And you'll be like a little embarrassed at parties. until you get the confidence or you start to get those small successes. And I think you just have to really believe in yourself and know that you're a little ahead of the curve and people may not see it yet, but when they eventually do, that's going to be a moment.

44:47I love that. I'm going to remember what you've just said. And I wonder, though, I mean, I love where you are right now. I love being able to watch it, but where is a Brooklyn Coffee Shop coming next? Am I going to see a television series as well? I think what's been so amazing about this format is we're kind of every week we're learning like how far the reach can go. I think it's pretty incredible the number of people that have seen the show in various industries, including obviously Hollywood. And I think right now we're very open. I mean, I think if the right opportunity came our way, that could definitely be a possibility.

45:21And, you know, casting directors are watching the show now. And that's something that DJ, who plays the other barista, he and I are noticing is that it's kind of widening our opportunity across the industry. So every week I'm like, what email is going to come in today? You know, you never know. And so I think I'm very curious as well to see where it all heads. Well, thank God for that hospital lighting. We never would have seen you otherwise. Pooja Trapati, thank you so much. Nice to meet you. Thank you. And thank you all for watching. The story is with Alex Michelson is next.

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