Around the world with IMG: a region-by-region guide - Episode 1: The Americas

0:03Hello and welcome to Around the World with IMG, a region by region guide. Today's episode, the The Americas. My name is James Emmett and with me here in the studio in London, welcome. It's Hilary Mandel, EVP and head of commercial Americas. Is that right, Hilary? Is that your job title changes every year? I hope you get a pay rise every year. I hope I don't change every year. No, you're right. Well, you know, we have to keep it fresh. But James, thank you for having me in what is the coolest studio I've been in in a long time. Oh, well, thank you. It's very worth the six-hour plane ride and another hour outside of the city.

0:48But this is very cool here. Thanks for coming over, Hilary. My pleasure. We are recording in the midst of Leaders' Week, which, as your listening listener, will be sometime in the distant past. But it's a busy time, so thank you for coming along to do this. Hilary, we're looking at the Americas today. I mean, obviously, it's a huge region. North America, certainly the most important region from an economic perspective in the whole sports market. We are going to be speaking with a couple of your colleagues. Evandro Figuera, who is an IMG VP based out of Sao Paulo, but looking after most of South America.

1:31and Brian Pressman, who is VP of Brand Partnerships and looks after football slash soccer in North America. I think he's based in the New York office or a New York office. This is correct. With you. But Hilary, thinking about, and I appreciate these are very broad questions. Before we bring the guys in, what is the number one sports industry story right now, as far as you can see it, North America? North America, number one story. Or the most significant one, as you said. Well, I think timely and what will be significant, I would have to say would be the pending, rumored, pick your word, acquisition by Skydance if this WBD-Turner discovery deal is really going to happen.

2:25I think, you know, I've said this before, consolidation has massive impact for everybody and what that could look like, good and bad, by the way. But when something of that magnitude is kind of sitting to the side and could happen, which would be seismic, it's hard to not focus on that or just to sort of freeze and see if that comes true. So I think that there's a lot of eyeballs looking at that, right? A lot of industry eyes looking to see if that is on track to be a reality. I mean, there's certainly, you know, my intel is that it's very, very real and plans are, you know, afoot. And some of the questions that at least I've asked a few people with the how would this work seem to have some answers.

3:16So I think that leads one to believe. And if that is the case, obviously, you know, you've created like this behemoth overnight. And the impact of that is intense, you know, it's crazy. So I think that's a big one. Yeah, I agree with you, Hilary. James, are we in violent agreement? I think we're in violent agreement. I'm also intrigued by, I mean, I know there seem to be new people added to the list of US entities that are supposed to be taking over the US arm of TikTok as well. But I think Skydance is one of those as well. Right. What? Is there a media entity that they're not after? They're very busy.

3:56Yeah. David Ellison is off the leash and ready to go. Pinted energy. It's exciting. Hilary, I have greatly enjoyed interviewing you over the years. I think the last time, well, the first time that I interviewed you might have been, I'm going to say about 2015 at Sporter. So we were both in the business in 2015. You are just out of nappy, just out of diapers, I suppose. I know. I was really, I know, child prodigy. Yep. Hilary, explain your purview at IMG for us, will you? What do you look after? What do I look after? I look after, I'm going to give it a twist today, James. I look after our IMG business in the Americas because I think that's what's really evolved.

4:48Our media business is changed, you know, to this really strong advisory and consulting role across so many different areas of expertise. Media is certainly a great muscle, but there are others. and in that same way, some of that carries forward to the rest of, you know, I would say our strengths. So that's our, while Barney is certainly our head of global production, I'm his partner here in the Americas and that the success of that business is my success and I need to be doing what I'm supposed to do to help grow that and that's the same for our digital business and frankly the same for, you know, we're going to talk to Brian in global partnerships, because that's something new, by the way, that in the past, certainly not in 2015 when you and I sat down, what TKO, our latest move into TKO has done is, again, brought more expertise kind of under one roof.

5:52And the fact that our brand partnership business, which is global, but as you will find out now very much in North America, we were a business that was really looking after our owned and operated properties. But the very big announcement is we are open for business now in a very, I'd say, competitive and dynamic way to start working with third parties. And hopefully Brian will talk about some of that, that they've already had some success. So my role is to help all of these other groups as well be successful in what we will call the Americas. The Americas. Are you not a fan of the word the Americas?

6:33The Americas. Well, you know, listen, I only had North America. It was really exciting to add the rest of Americas to my title. Yeah, I think anything with the on the front of it, you know, that's big time. It is big time. We spoke more or less one year ago, Hilary, and you were celebrating a couple of big wins. You'd just done, well, I guess in the 12 months previously, you had closed a big media rights deal for the NWSL. I think the USTA had been done not too long before that as well. this year uh you couldn't move at the img summit um back in september for senior folks at img calling you out for your role a pivotal role in the massive um billion dollar deals that have been signed across all the tko properties wwe ufc they've all done multiple sort of industry shifting media rights deals all for multi-billion dollar amounts.

7:41Netflix has come in a big way into the sports rights market on the back of one of those properties. You mentioned Skydance and obviously David Ellison and Paramount in for the UFC as well. UFC? Yes. Yes. And yesterday's announcement too. What happened yesterday? Boxing space. Oh, who's that? It's that Paramount. Yes. Great. Winner is. Anyway, Hilary, you seem to be, if not the architect, then certainly right in the mosh pit of how these deals get done, moving people around and sort of staking out positions, getting things done. How do you do it in the North American media market? How do you, here's a question, how do you do a billion dollar deal in the North American media market?

8:26Well, James, that was a big question. It was a lot. It was a bit of context and then it was a question. It was a good context. First of all, I'll say one thing. When you're doing a billion dollar deal, I'd actually say if you're doing a million dollar deal, what we do is a team sport. It is a team sport, capital T. And, you know, you're talking about the top down, as you heard at the IMG Summit, too. I mean, you know, it is a testament to, I have to say, it's a testament to our leadership that when you're working on a property that's owned and operated, that is that important, that there is that level of trust that you can kind of get in the circle and figure out where you can lean in and help and get the results that we got.

9:14So I give Mark Shapiro and Mark and Ari together, but certainly and then the rest of the leadership from Nick to Lawrence and so forth, appreciation and credit for the fact that they recognize that as well. So, you know, what's the secret sauce? I mean, you've heard this over and over again, I think. And it is not unique to our business, but it's essential in our business. I think it's trusted relationships. I think it's that you can't do a deal of that magnitude. You can't have a serious conversation with anybody unless there is that, I think, the trust that you're going to be able to deliver on what you say and that you're representing, you know, that there's like kind of that honest, you know, we can get pretty far in this because I know that you're going to be a person in a company of your word.

10:11And I think that starts at the top on down. You know, that even goes back to, you know, my younger years, certainly when we were IMG, even working under Barry. Like Barry Franks, certainly the motto was always relationships. And again, that that's just a basic rule. So I think it's how do we operate? It's being in this marketplace week in, week out, and you're as good as your word. And you're as good as, again, the ability for the other side to trust that you might not get it done, but you're going to have a real run at something and it's going to be a fair race. And I think that in this case where we had a lot of people interested, so the ability to kind of keep it straight and what is it going to take to get you here and is it worth the work?

11:01I mean, we get it. You know, to get there, you know what has to happen on the other side. It's a ton of work that has to go in. And the last thing you want to do is waste somebody's time. And I hope what happens when you're talking to us is that, you know, there's not going to be a time waste, that, you know, there's a real opportunity to get there. So for me, I think that was part of it. and being able to understand what the dynamics are, what matters to the different entities that you're talking about. I think that's, you know, and that goes back to, we don't just drop in and drop out. You're here when you're here with the kind of consistency that we are.

11:35And that's where I think having the portfolio helps us. You know, some people say you have too many properties. Say, well, that's up to us to make sure that we're doing our job to make sure that you don't feel that way. But the information and the intel and the understanding that you have, how different companies at the table are operating, I think that's what we bring to the table to try to represent that and see if we can help, you know, make a deal. So information, good intel, data, honesty, integrity, backing up your words with actions. And I guess the history of doing all of that really helps in your favor.

12:14But if you had to point to one sort of from all of your years of experience and the many, many deals that you've done, if you had to point to like a negotiation tip, you know, something relatively that might seem relatively trivial, but that always seems to work for you, what would you say? I wish there was a trick or a tip. People have written books about this, Hilary. There are a lot of... Well, that's good if you're trying to sell those books. I don't know, James, is there one piece of it? But you know what often rings true? And I think, again, I would apply this outside of our work, but I think perhaps there is the notion that nobody gets everything that they want.

12:55And that's true on both sides of a deal, right? Nobody and that ability, the best deals that we do, everyone's a little uncomfortable, right? And that seems fair if there is such a word, if that marriage works, that maybe it's just too wishful to believe that everything I want and you want, we're going to align perfectly. But I think that you see that if you can kind of, as things are trying to come together, recognize that, you know, this overlap of it's not perfect for me, it's not perfect for you. Well, maybe that makes it perfect. I think that rings true often. I think that's something in human nature there, isn't there?

13:37It's almost sort of hospitality and humility. If I can show you what I have given up or given in order for you to be comfortable, then you might reciprocate in a human way. I think so. Getting deep. I think it's time to bring some other guests on. Right. We're going to dig into North America in a bit more detail. An amazing few years coming up, particularly with the World Cup next year. So we're going to bring in your colleague, Brian Pressman, who's VP of Brand Partnerships and head of football events in North America. But first of all, we're going to bring in Evandro Figueira, the VP of Brazil.

14:20excellent pronunciation my friend yes yes uh very quickly before we bring him in uh brazil south america exciting market to you absolutely i mean yes we know latam is exciting um not to take anything away from evandro we just brought in uh another uh vice president um francisco pesmino who uh great experience in that region in certainly uh in mexico and parts of latam because we believe that there's great opportunity there to grow. And yes, it's... Do you like going? How often do you go? Not as often as I should, although I must say I have to go back because on the last trip that we made, and I will confess it was my first time, we did four, three countries and six cities.

15:07And I managed to go to Rio, which I'd never been to before, in what was an absolute torrential rainstorm. So I'm owed a better trip there. and same folk. But you will see us now going more often. And also now that we've renewed our Commonwealth deal, we have our IMG team down there working on that that will also inspire some more trips. Yeah, right. Not the worst part of the job, right? No, it's not a bad trip at all. Right, let's bring in Evandro. Fantastic. Well, joining us now from Sao Paulo as advertised is Evandro Figuera. Evandro, thanks for joining us on the podcast. And here I am with your boss.

15:51Nice to see her over here in the studio. Good to see her as well. And you too. Evandro, let's start with the basic stuff, if we may. Could you explain your role and responsibilities at IMG? Yes, I've been with IMG for the past eight years. And my role here is, you know, I started as Brazil only. And then my role expanded a little bit more to South America. So currently, I manage the whole of South America, Spanish speaking and Brazil. And I also do some deals in LATAM. We have another executive up in the north where we split the region in different permutations when we need to. And we work very collaborative together to get the best deals we can for our clients.

16:44So that's how we do. And, you know, basically my role is on the media rights, but we also support all of the other companies around the TKO group. So the UFC, WWE and others. So, you know, the main role, media, but we do a little bit of everything else. And Evandro, I'm on your LinkedIn here and it tells me that you used to be a teacher. Is that right? Yes, I was a teacher for an MBA class for sports marketing. Okay. I did that for three years, so yes. Wow. So what's it like sort of swapping teaching for, I mean, is it the real thing? Is it going from teaching to the real thing? No, no. I already worked in the real thing.

17:30So I was using part of the expertise that I got in the market to actually share with the students. And I think actually that helped a lot, not only in sharing the knowledge that I got from the market, but now also seeing a lot of those students being in the market and being collaborative as well and helping and being very successful on their roles after taking the classes. And Hilary, on the teaching kind of vibe. Sounds like a side hustle to me. Yeah, big time. I wonder how much you got paid for that. Is that a sign about the way we're paying people? I have to call HR on that. Well, you know, on the teaching sort of theme, what would you grade Evandro's work?

18:15And how would you grade the business that IMG is doing in Brazil and in the South American territories in general? Tricky question, Hilary. All right. Well, I'm going straight down the middle here. You can see this by, you'll know this more by chatting with Evandro through the end of this. Yeah. Evandro is getting an A. OK, getting an A because we've had great results in this region. And, you know, the thing that I learned, this is the, you know, in the time that now we've expanded, you know, where we were North America only. And then several years back, we started looking at the world from the America's point of view.

18:53And I think a lot of people make this mistake. We refer to LATAM as this like big soup, right? Latam is regent. And my teacher on the screen right there was very apt to point out that Brazil is a massive size country, massive in terms of population and culture. And Portuguese, they speak Portuguese. You know, we use this word Latam like Spanish speaking X. That's not the language and that's not the culture. And to, I think, sort of put that country into one and one big tagline diminishes the entire proposition and it really underserves what that region can do. So just the minute that we recognize that it's deserving, I mean, I want to say that in the right way, it's important.

19:46And the fact that we have somebody who's really experienced, I mean, Evandro's been a buyer, which is always a great skill to bring to the table. He's been a buyer, he's been in production, really like a jack of many, many trades. And to bring that perspective into, remember, what's the overall IMG proposition? an expert on the ground locally, serving what we also know is our global expertise. It was a perfect fit, and he's really done that with not a ton of resources, I might say. So hail for that. And then his work has really shown even greater as we've gotten even a bigger presence, because as you know, we represent Comma Ball, and we've created a division that, Vandral will tell you more about that, that he leads the media for.

20:35And so our presence is growing and he's highly responsible for that. So A. Well, Evandro, it sounds like A for pay rise, the silent P maybe. For sure, because I've got to get him out of the teaching gig. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you're right to talk about LATAM like that. It's very easy in sort of English speaking Western world to think about LATAM as this sort of amorphous mass exciting market but it's all one blob really of course it's not and brazil and lucophonic countries right i heard that lucophonic countries is something like the fourth it's the fourth biggest uh fourth most spoken language in the world portuguese um and brazil is clearly going great guns you know the nfl um coming there recently it's not just soccer in the market anymore and evandro i wondered um if we were in brazil alongside you today what's the biggest sort of sports industry story where you are right now um i think uh you know using using what hillary just said you know comobol is by far the biggest the biggest property and the big story in market right now uh due to the work that you know comobol has done uh in the past eight years and then with everything that us as IMG and we do have a group of people dedicated exclusive to that Comma Ball project.

21:56So we have about 65 people spread in three different offices, which is Brazil, one here in Sao Paulo, one in Paraguay and one in Buenos Aires, where people take very good care of Comma Ball on the media side, on the media business, also on sponsorship and digital. So we do a lot for them. We've seen that the growth of the interest, not only from the broadcasters, but also from the clubs to participate in the Comma Ball Club competitions, is grown a lot due to prize monies, due to the right treatment that we're doing and Comma Ball is doing for the product itself. with now centralized production, with a sponsorship-related 360 strategy, with the right media partners that we do the deals for them.

22:52So we see that the interest and the big benefits of that growth and all the dedication that Comma Ball has put into the competitions and with our support. And IMG renewed the deal with Combo just this year, was it? Earlier this year? Yes, correct. Which is a huge pat on the back for everyone involved in that. Another long-term deal and clearly successful on all sides. Evandro, I wonder whether you could take us inside the kind of market dynamics in Brazil at the moment. I do think it's a fascinating territory. I remember, do you remember that sort of spell? Maybe you were teaching at the time, Evandro, So maybe you weren't around for it.

23:36But there was a spell in the early 2010s when there were a few major industry events in Brazil. Sportel went a few times. It was all around in the build-up to the Brazil World Cup and the Rio Olympics. But Sportel was in Rio a few times. Soccer X went there as well. And I remember at that time, there was such enthusiasm around Brazil as a potentially burgeoning sports market. there were there they've always been these gigantic football clubs this amazing uh audience for football in particular but it strikes me that the market just as an outside observer the market's never really fulfilled its promise there are all these sort of attempts i remember clube dos trece was formed uh to try and uh have a sort of collective where the brazilian clubs would get together and sell their rights collectively.

24:30Globo is obviously the dominant force in the market. But now you've got really interesting things happening, the Brazilian media market in particular. Casa TV, obviously a huge success story there. Take us inside what that market looks like at the moment, Evandro. Is it a buyer's market? Is it a seller's market? Tell us some of the kind of dominant forces where you are. I think a little bit of the changes that happen in the Brazilian market. And back in 2010, I was already in production and on the buyer side, as Hilary said. And the change from that to what we live today is that we see now the other broadcasters, not only global, looking in and buying a lot of sports.

25:20you know I think IMG was key on that change and I say that because in 2020 when we had the the pandemic you know we had to change and to find a different broadcaster for the combo club competitions when we had a few that decided to you know to cancel their deals on a unilateral decision. So when we made the moves and we got, you know, new players into the mix, you know, mainly SPT coming into the mix, you know, the Combo TV that we created down here in Brazil, we show the market that there could be space for others to actually be part of the sports marketing and the sports rights industry. And since 2020, we've seen a lot of changes.

26:13We've seen, Formula One going to Banderantes back in 21, I think. We had some of the state championships also moving from global to different broadcasters. We've seen new players coming into the Comma Ball Club competitions. We've seen now the creation of, as you said, Casa TV back in 2022 during the World Cup in Qatar. So yes, there is a lot of new players in the mix But also understanding that some of those players are still not ready to compete for the high premium rights So being present and being in region, not only in Brazil, but also in South America in general Of course, being in Brazil as my homeland and being here every single day gives me the right perspective and who should I talk to every single day to get the deals that we need to get done and also to service our clients in terms of giving them expertise on the market and saying, hey, listen, you have your partner here that is doing a great job for you, but when the time comes, we should look into different alternatives as well.

27:29So finding that balance between every new thing and the old traditional media is something that we do every day. You know, it's a good one. You might find this interesting, James. Evandro, just to give a perspective on what the streamers are doing in Brazil. Who's coming and who's not? I think that's a good take. Yeah, I think, you know, we do have, in Brazil, we do have two kinds of streamers. We have the SVOD streamers like Paramount +, like HBO Max, Netflix, and Disney+. And we also have what we say the AVOD or the free streamers, which are the ones using the platform of YouTube like Gazette TV.

28:13We also have GOAT. Now we have N Sports that just announced a deal with SBT to collaborate into the FIFA World Cup next year. So we see a lot of movement coming out of that. And that's what makes the strategy work on our side on how we actually use all of the different media outlets to get the best deal and the best visibility for our clients. Evandro, obviously, they're sitting in Sao Paulo, working closely with clients and partners that you have in region. But Hilary, from where you sit, predominantly in New York. But not at this minute. Not at this minute. You're here in Wimbledon with us. What do you find that the folks that you talk to in the U.S.

29:00sports ecosystem, what are they excited about or concerned about when it comes to LATAM and Brazil? Sure. Well, I think the exciting piece you're seeing. I mean, obviously, the NFL going to Brazil. As we know, the NFL tells the story. They're the first storyteller. And then a lot of people follow after that. And I think Mexico sits right next to that. And that, again, back to my learning to try to untangle that word LATAM and say, what are the components, who are the countries and what makes them, where are the opportunities? I think Mexico is there as well. You know, I think the saturation in the U.S.

29:43is such that, I mean, the world is global now. I mean, and the ability to take content and make it local is so appealing that how could it not be that if you're a U.S. property and you're sitting here and you're looking south and I mean, it's been much easier for, I think, sports properties to find, at least to go north into Canada. But I think that it's just a combination of it hasn't been done correctly because the need to make it particular. And I would say, Evandro, outside of Mexico, content needs to be further localized. Mexico is one country and then we keep going further south. And that's where technology meets expansion and globalization.

30:27So if you have the production technology, if you have the ability to create content in local language and give it context digitally, which I think is, you know, another new tool in the box, then it's the land of opportunity. And what we've all, again, learning, I definitely put myself in the student category here, while free-to-air TV and pay TV has certainly, you know, proliferated, you know, the digital penetration is growing. I mean, it is by no means saturated, perhaps not even in the US or here sitting in the UK. And all of that is just pasture, green pasture that it's too enticing to not want to find ways to grow and build your property there.

31:11Evandro, from your perspective, what's the most challenging thing about operating in your market? Do you have an hour? I was going to say. And bear in mind, your boss is here. So let's get it all out. Like I said, do you have an hour? I think the, you know, two big things actually stand out on when the answer, the question comes up. And one of them is definitely the language barrier. We do have a lot of our clients in Brazil that don't speak English. So, you know, Portuguese is mandatory to get to the bottom of what we need to do. And then also in Spanish speaking, LATAM in general, you know, if you come and you speak the language, it's much easier to get answers.

31:55And not only on getting the deals done or the business done, but also to create the relationships and to make sure that, you know, there is trust between companies that you can develop a good relationship and find the right balance between, you know, what you need to do on your day to day. So I think that's one of the points. And also understanding a little bit of the economy and how the economy in this part of the world actually works, because one day we have the exchange rate going up, the other day it's now coming down to 2 % or 3 % out of that. So understanding the differences between that and how that impacts the deals that we do and also the business, how it impacts the business of our clients in each individual market, that will give us the perspective of how we can get a deal done, how we can advise also our clients to get your best out of each specific market.