Behind the scenes at Leaders Week London

0:03Hello and welcome to another episode of Leaders Worth Knowing, the Sports Business Podcast from Leaders in Sport, for Leaders in Sport. My name is James Emmett. I'm the editorial director here at Leaders. With me on location at Allianz Stadium, it is in Twickenham in London, is my great good colleague, the content director here at Leaders, David Cushman. David, how are you? I'm okay. Thank you, James. Just to give listeners a little bit of colour on when and where we're recording. Actually, I don't have the time on me. I'm going to say it's about 5.30, Wednesday, end of day one at the Summit, Leaders Week London, coming to you from what is now a slightly eerie creative stage, completely empty, save for a couple of stragglers.

1:00But outside, my goodness, There's nearly 2 ,000 global sports industry executives ready to dance the night away, chit-chat the night away, certainly, and enjoy some great hospitality at the end of a banger of a first day. Yep, there's going to be the traditional disco to end things off on day one here at the summit in Leaders Week. We've also got a special guest with us, David. There's somebody else on stage with us. Please welcome and say hello to, it is the man behind the terrific Outlines podcast. It is Owen Connolly himself. Is that right? It is the Outlines podcast, right? It is, yeah. Because you grimaced there.

1:40I think that was a smile. I attempted a smile. Maybe it's the time of day. I interpreted that smile as a grimace. Or the eerie lighting that David has insisted on for this recording. Owen, welcome to the show and thank you for being with us. and you've been sort of our eyes and ears on the ground today as uh james and i have been uh busy doing stuff on the stage in the ob truck around the corner watching everything so he's our sort of eye in the sky to take us around the grounds how many metaphors that's a lot of metaphors i've been in the content oh it's been watching some of the sessions let's hope he's recorded some of those thoughts for the benefit of this tape.

2:23Top line thoughts, David? I see you've got your shoes off. I have had to take my shoes off because I'm wearing a very comfy pair of shoes that have just in the last hour or so just started to rub. So I'm taking the opportunity of this being an audio-only podcast. I don't know. We could scratch and sniff, I suppose. Chill, chill, chillax a little bit. Okay. I think it's been a really fantastic day. Very busy, very buzzy. I've never seen things so busy out on the floor and in the many sessions that we have scheduled across three different stages, some private forums as well. Top line thoughts, artificial intelligence.

3:10I'm not sure there was a session today, certainly on the tech and innovation stage and the creative stage that didn't mention AI and its potential and some really interesting thoughts on it, which we can perhaps come to a little bit later. But that, I think very clearly is the dominant theme and the dominant thing that a lot of sports industry executives are frankly thinking about how to make money out of. So my experience is similar in that there was a lot of conversation around AI automation in general in the various bits and pieces that I was involved in. I am pleased to report that there are at least some people in leadership positions in the sports industry who are considering the human impact of AI as well.

4:04Definitely some discussion in one of our private forums around the process and the humanity that has to come with a lot of these automation processes that are being brought into sports broadcasting in particular. Ultimately, it does mean that there are going to be fewer jobs in the industry and that has to be handled very sensitively indeed. It's worth saying though that a conversation about AI puts bums on seats And we've seen that across a number of specific sessions that we have run today, including one hosted on this very stage by Richard Ayres that I didn't catch a lot of that featured Craig Hepburn and the formerly of UEFA and Art Basel and the folks from Montserrat.

4:52I don't know if either of you saw what Richard Ayres donned for that session. It was, and do dig out the photos, it was a, well, I can only describe it as a jacket that had a circuit board design on it. A green jacket, a bright green jacket with a circuit board pattern across it. He's a cad, isn't he? Richard Ayres is moving into his pantomime dame phase. The pantomime dame of the sports industry. And he's leaning into it. And I'm all for it. He's becoming a caricature. But he marshaled a fantastic session. What I would also say just on AI, because this is where we are, on the tech and innovation stage, a lot of people, I think every session talked about AI, some more explicitly than others.

5:40A lot of organizations who are looking to sell in services to teams, leagues, event owners are definitely using fan engagement, fan enhancement as a bit of a byword for AI solutions at the moment. So AI being baked into an idea of a better, richer fan experience. And that came through in quite a few sessions today. Owen, top line, top line takeaway. So there are a couple of things. One, Taylor two World Cups, one that's just finished and one that a lot of eyes will be on. One that's just finished here in the last few days. And we had a snap wrap, which we will get to, I'm sure. a little bit later.

6:25A snap wrap? A snap wrap. That's really annoying you've said that because snap wrap is a much better title than the one I gave it when we put this sort of last minute session together with Alan Gilpin, the CEO of World Rugby and Sarah Massey who ran the World Cup here over the last few weeks. Yeah and Laura McQueen, your boss getting their thoughts on that and we'll get some of those I think later later in the show. And the day started with Victor Montaliani talking to Amanda Davis about the World Cup next year. Quite a frank, bruising encounter at times. I didn't see that session, but I have heard that it was relatively punchy and that, I just feel like mixing my metaphors again, but Amanda did go in sort of two-footed on Victor.

7:20we absolutely were expecting a no holds barred conversation there and I think we probably did get one the reports that I hear without what having seen the whole session is that Amanda took Victor to task but that he acquitted himself uh I think that's fair that matches what I heard as a review um and I think when fairly you know fairly experienced weathered sports industry uh beat journalists come up to you and say, yeah, Amanda did really well there. I think you get a sense that Amanda did well in terms of asking the questions. But equally, they said, Victor's, you know, clearly very well briefed.

8:02He clearly knows his lines, but he's actually not afraid to tackle some of these questions head on. Yeah, lots to ask politically and geopolitically, not just around that tournament, but around football more generally. And I think there'll be some headlines made. I saw some headlines made off the back of it. A couple of other things that I noticed. One was culture. Lots of culture. Oh, yeah. Lots of city-based ideas and topics talked about. We obviously had the owner of Birmingham City, owner of the Minnesota Vikings. So that kind of thing came into it and the role of kind of real estate and local engagement and things like that in those clubs.

8:45and also I think talking about where sport fits in lifestyle and music fashion that kind of thing it's not a radical idea anymore so I think it just sort of it just sort of filtered percolated through a lot of other conversations though it's like when digital sort of became part of every conversation rather than sort of siloed off into its own discussion because sport is acknowledged as central within a wider cultural discussion now I think. Should we do a little round the grounds then Owen and I think you've because you have been watching a lot of the sessions for us you've teed up a few clips that we will be able to play in now.

9:33The first one is from one of the sessions that you referred to earlier it's um sarah massey uh what did you say earlier the the snap uh what was your phrase snap rap the snap really good it did have a uh a different title david what was the actual title i'm the only one sitting here without the actual in front of me the actual all right owen i'm not saying that's that's probably been a long day more uh an indication of my level of preparation than anything else we're trying to do this with a bit of prep snap reaction was the name of the session but the idea was to essentially and we are you know just what four days on from the conclusion to a pretty much a six-week world cup i think or maybe even longer um to get the the snap reactions of alan gilpin and sarah massey and sarah was on stage today talking about one of the one of the initiatives that has been launched in parallel with the staging of the tournament, Owen, the Where We Belong campaign?

10:32Yeah, so I'd say as well, it was a good session all round. Alan Gilpin, very interesting on the kind of change in commercial model leading into the tournament and World Rugby kind of taking on a bit more responsibility for delivery, but that meaning that they could invest more heavily in production and the athlete experience, stuff like that. And I think, you know, hopefully more of that to come in the newsletter. but yeah one of the things that Sarah Massey talked about was this Where We Belong initiative which is basically trying to get more women into more different functions in the sport and in the delivery of the event across the board I think she said it it led to an all female ground staff at Twickenham for the final as well.

11:18And it must be said actually that the, just a couple of days on from that World Cup final here at Allianz Stadium, the pitch is pristine Well, they've got another game. They've got South Africa against Argentina in the rugby championship at the weekend. Do you know, if you want a pitch done properly, get an all-female ground staff crew. I saw a couple of people on the pitch today. What? Name names. Well, I couldn't quite clock who they were, but please stay off the pitch. Here is Sarah Massey on the headline stage. Say just a little bit about the Where We Belong program, because people may not be aware of that.

11:56Yeah, so us as an organisation, so between World Rugby and England Rugby, the legacy programme is very much about participation, increasing number of players, increasing people down to clubs, increasing officials and coaches. And what we decided to do as an organisation, and we could do that, we could be unapologetic about it, being a women's sport, is that how can we use the power of this tournament and the platform that we've got to really champion women and underrepresented groups off the pitch? So it was a whole big campaign about, you know, Women can do anything, be anything, belong anywhere in rugby, in sport and in society.

12:30And how can we bring that into women who deserve to be in their chosen careers? How do we showcase women in roles off the pitch? And we did that across so many different match day roles. Whether that be the commentators or the photographers or the DJs or the people on the field. Whether it was the police commanders, the team security advisors. And as soon as we kind of did this, it was amazing how many organisations. then we want to showcase women in our organisations as well. And that just snowballed, you know, and sort of culminating in things like the all-female groundskeeper crew at the final, you know, on Saturday, which was just brilliant.

13:06And, you know, hopefully some of the organisations that have worked with us will continue that. UK Sport, we are taking forward some of the practices that we tried to put in place around inclusivity and cultures and workforces so that they will carry that on into the future and future events that happen in the UK and other major events that come here. So that's kind of the legacy that we built, particularly from an organisation point of view in England specifically. Sarah Massey there in conversation on the headline stage today here at Leaders Week London. You were talking there about the pitch, David, before we played the clip-in from Sarah Massey.

13:45Yes. You'd like to say more about the pitch? Yes. Well, you mentioned that you were about to tell tales of who you saw besmirching the pitch here at HQ. So the NFL are out in force across the two days here, and Commissioner Roger Goodell will be speaking tomorrow morning. And I've been running through the... You're the logistics guy, aren't you? I've been running through it. And just be careful what you say here. I've been running through some of the logistics with his security detail, liaising between the security here at the stadium and also the NFL's comprehensive security detail. And it transpires that when the NFL was last here to play a game in 2017-ish, I think, maybe, the chap who was doing security from the stadium, who's a lovely chap, absolutely rode roughshod over his own rulebook and allowed NFL dignitaries to cross straight down the pitch.

14:53Not going either side, straight across, because the governor of Arizona gets what the governor of Arizona wants. Really? Well, you know. Rules are there to be broken, aren't they? That's right. That's right. But yes, the NFL are here in force this week, not just central league office NFL, but a really good number of the teams, not least the Minnesota Vikings, who are right in the middle of, well, the most international of international visits yet for an NFL team outside the US, because they were in Dublin last weekend for the first game to be played in Ireland. And they have traveled to London because they're playing this weekend in London.

15:38Handy timing for us to have a number of the Vikings folk with us, not least the big dog himself, the owner and president of the Vikings, Mark Wilf, who was on stage for a one-to-one conversation. And Owen, you had your eyes on this one as well. I did. Give us a flavor of, you know, Mr. Wilf's appearance with us. What's the time, Mr. Wilf? so he he talks about a few things i think the clip is kind of a summation of uh the international experience for the vikings and for the nfl more generally and where that project is at he talked about um his group's ownership of a couple of other teams couple football teams our our version of football mls and nwsl down in florida um he talked a bit about yeah the vikings were out in force because Minnesota is quite, as we learned during the 2024 presidential campaign, quite a business-focused state.

16:43And Governor Tim Walz was in Dublin last weekend talking at some kind of trade delegation. Do you think he got on the pitch at Croke Park? Governor Tim? Yeah, probably. Don't know. Mr. Wilf was in conversation with Sophie Goldschmidt, who's the chief executive of US Ski and Snowboard. And it's something that we really like to do here at Leaders is match significant industry heavyweights with each other. And I am always a great admirer of certainly the way that Sophie runs interviews, runs conversations. And I think we should probably play that little clip in now. So here is Mark Wilf on internationalization.

17:26We've been very supportive of it. this will be our sixth international regular season game. We had many preseason games before that, our fourth in the last couple of years. So we're very much bullish on the growth of our game internationally. Now there are currently, I think, 14 million fans in the UK of the NFL. And we've seen the growth just in the past 15 years since the first games were played here. Fans are super educated. It's not just expats. Many local people and people from all over Europe are coming to the game and we saw it in Dublin now, a new market for us as well. So excited about the possibility to help grow the game.

18:03UK market is actually a marketing environment for our team as well so we're trying to set up our club here as well and we're growing that and we've devoted staff and resources to that. And then what's the reaction been from the fans? Over here we've seen mixed sort of reactions when the Premier League's threatened to take games overseas. Have your fans embraced it? They've been tremendous. Do a lot around the games as well. We have tremendous fan sport. They travel, many from America. Our sponsors come over here. We use it as an opportunity to engage our business community. In fact, the governor of Minnesota was in Dublin doing a trade event around the game.

18:42So there are many opportunities around it, but our fans have been super supportive and we're growing fans all over. And the Vikings actually, including our logo, have a European presence and feel. We have people from Scandinavia and from all over Europe coming to our games as well. That was Mark Wilf, the owner and president of the Minnesota Vikings. And one of the other areas that he touched on, Owen, that I know you wanted to mention was flag football, which we are hearing quite a lot. And we're hearing it, and I think we'll hear a little bit on flag football from Commissioner Goodell tomorrow on stage.

19:16It's a big focus moving into LA 28 where it becomes an Olympic sport there's also some interesting things happening I know Tom Brady and Fox are going into business for a flag football event that's going to be staged as part of Riyadh season out in Saudi Arabia so there's there's a movement here this is the sort of also the the NFL's youth play if you like in terms of broadening the participation base and a sort of entry-level way to get into football. But what was Mark Wilf's take on flag football and its potential and how it can be beneficial? Yeah, so one of the things that he talked about was the capacity to bring young women into the game a little bit more easily.

20:05Obviously, you know, football being kind of the high school sport, the kind of um the blue chip high school sport in a lot of us states but participation being not that easy to generate in in um for for young women and girls um and i think the reason i wanted to bring it up and you know it's interesting you mentioned roger goodell because i would not be surprised if that is a big focus of what he talks about um because i think internationally that's going to be quite a significant play for them i mean it's not going to be kind of big numbers necessarily but it's a way for the nfl to generate some kind of cultural currency if you think that participation internationally is not very high for american football um and it's a very expensive sport to get off the ground takes a lot of players takes a lot of equipment takes a lot of kind of safety measures etc flag football you can play in the park um and it can kind of start to replicate some of the kind of cultural relevance that basketball has and the NBA has in some of these international markets.

21:13So it's not just a spectator thing. It's a thing that kind of becomes a focus for communities as well. I always get confused about bull or a bear. What's the good one? You're a bull. Are you a bull on Flag Footballer? Bullish. Bullish is good. You're sounding... I just think it's going to be... The NFL kind of run the table in media and commercial terms, don't they so you know this is just the thing they can try and i think it'll be interesting to see and the olympic thing is crucial that is where it's all you know all efforts over the next couple of years are going to culminate in what that olympic tournament looks like yeah um and i think it will be it will have a little bit of novelty value at la 28 as new sports often do but if it has got the might of the NFL properly behind it from a promotional standpoint.

22:05What does that look like, the might of the NFL? Surely the discussion will come down to what NFL players will be allowed to participate. Yeah, I think there's that element. But I also think there's the promotional might of the NFL and the shield. And if there's, you know, there's probably an arrangement to be struck between the IOC and the NFL to have, even if it's clips going out of, you know, on both channels, you know, co-posting stuff will absolutely raise the profile and presumably be seen as a bit of a win-win for both parties. Yeah, I would suggest. Right. Let's move away from the NFL and let's go back to real football, shall we?

22:50Owen, you talked about a tale of two World Cups earlier at the top of the episode and we trailed the fact that uh concaf president uh fifa vice president the uh head honcho at next year's world cup in the americas were in um usa canada and mexico victor montagliani was in town kicking things off here at the summit uh coming uh under the kosh a little bit uh in a one-to-one with Amanda Davies from CNN. What was the overall gist of the session, Owen? So yeah, there's noise around that particular tournament for reasons that we don't particularly need to go into. And the leadership of the three countries and the antagonism, unexpected antagonism that emanates from the leader of the, well, not unexpected in the case of Donald Trump, but unexpected in the case of three historically very close countries suddenly having all these other things going on.

23:53For a second there, I thought you were going in hard on Mark Carney. Perhaps not. So there was a lot of discussion about how convivial, how kind of collegiate, that's the word I'm looking for more than convivial, the relationship between the different parts of the United 2026 organization were. And, you know, Victor was very clear that it's a very good relationship between those, not just the governing bodies, but also at government level between the three countries. There's all sorts of complexities around, you know, Israel are unlikely to qualify, but Iran are likely to qualify. and their presence on the ground in any one of those countries.

24:43These sort of things came up. It was quite hard news topics. On a complete side note, I was at a thing the other day where Mike Pompeo was speaking, former Secretary of State, and he was asked on his opinion on banning countries from competing in particular competitions. and he said he just let everyone compete doesn't matter uh which i think is a view of quite a lot of politicians whatever stripe they are the sport doesn't matter uh is the view of a lot of politicians and anyone should be allowed to compete and pompeo said oh no but i'd ban the russians from the olympics yeah yeah just the just but just the olympics seem to matter the Olympics have a set of values associated with them and this sort of sense of national soft power and projection that the World Cup doesn't seem to have certainly in Pompeo's view.

25:46Interestingly one of the things that Victor Monteliano said was that or the line that he used was that the game is bigger than the leaders of those countries and obviously in democracies which they all are, you would expect the game to outlast the leaders of those three countries. So, slightly different tenor from, yeah. It is worth saying that Victor Montaliani has completely transformed the fortunes and reputation of that federation, which was trashed, really, 10 years ago in the scandal that hit FIFA as a whole. and the change of leadership that precipitated a corruption scandal. Who would have thought 10 years ago that CONCACAF is arguably the most influential football confederation in the world at the moment, the one preparing to host the World Cup next year?

26:46And a large part of that has been down to Victor Montaliani's gentle and persuasive leadership style, I would say. and yeah, they are set to welcome the world to what will be, for better or worse, the biggest World Cup that has ever taken place next year. And I think we should play in a little clip from that session where CONCACAF President Victor Montaliani reflects on a decade of change at CONCACAF. So here is Victor Montaliani. Just to wrap up, it's hard sitting here now to imagine it is 10 years since FIFA imploded, CONCACAF imploded. You weren't in this role 10 years ago. I mean, could you ever have pictured that journey of where you have been, where CONCACAF has been, and where football in your region has got to?

27:46Yeah, I mean, to be brutally honest, I don't think I would have been Confederation president if that didn't happen. I'm not sure a Canadian would figure out a way how to do that but the reality is yeah you're right ten years ago when the proverbial you know what hit the fan in Zurich my Confederation was morally bankrupt financially bankrupt and football bankrupt and in ten years we've been able to steady the ship to the point where we, I don't think if we would have done that, we would have been even in a position to put a bid together for the 2026 World Cup as a confederation with the three countries.

28:30Obviously, our financials are in a very good state. We've grown like, you know, a billion percent. And our football is, we have more games. I mean, especially on the women's side, we had like zero women's football. Although, you know, we had a couple of really good teams. Other than the U.S. Yeah, correct. But that's all we had, right? But now we have a Nations League. We have a robust Women's Gold Cup. Now we have thousands of games. We have a Champions League for our club ecosystem. Something that 10 years ago you couldn't imagine. So we're in a much better spot and we're ready to, as a confederation, welcome the world.

29:12Because the great thing about our confederation, especially the three countries that are hosting, is that the 211 members of FIFA all see themselves in our countries because they have a relative there or somebody there. So there's a piece of every member of FIFA in one of our countries, which is kind of unique. It takes me back to when we were all colleagues. FIFA corruption and all that. That specific story anyway. Victor Montaliani in conversation on the headline stage earlier today. A lot of fun was had here on this stage, on the creative stage. I'm not sure how much of this you caught, Owen, but this is our place where we like to bring the brands in.

30:01We like to bring in a little bit of left field stuff. And actually, we like to bring in a lot of conversation around marketing strategies and such like. One of the things we did here on this stage was a, by all accounts, fascinating conversation between the Chicago Bulls and Ferrari, who we brought together as examples of two sports organizations, sports teams who have really transcended their sport. and, you know, through merchandise, through brand heritage, through brand appeal, through great histories and I suppose through great storytelling. And I mean, I don't know if you watched any of this session or picked up on it, but I think there's some real, it's one of those things that's really hard to achieve, sort of transcending a sport and you're not necessarily in control of it.

30:56but it is something that every single rights holder organization who was here today frankly is striving to do somehow yeah yeah for sure and you know um lorenzo giorgetti of ferrari talked a lot about the heritage of ferrari as um a mark and the kind of what he described as like the duality of that particular brand where ferrari the car manufacturer places a premium on scarcity he said you know however many cars we need to build we'll build one less um i think there was a stat about you know i can't remember the exact figures but the number of cars they produce in a year nissan produces in about three days but at the same time ferrari the formula one racing team or the kind of racing brand is inclusive and open.

31:50They've got the same sort of strategy with winning in Formula 1, don't they? How many wins they need in Formula 1? One less? No? Several less this year, unfortunately. Many, many less, yeah. But I mean, there's something about that. You know, I remember at the start of this year, they did a lot of great stuff with Lewis Hamilton when he joined the Ferrari team. and one of the things you got from that was this guy kind of and obviously it has mattered since that it's it's maybe not gone as well competitively competitively as he might have liked but he just looked like he was having a great time and kind of people will have got the idea like it's fun to drive a Ferrari he did the video with um Edward Norton where they they kind of inserted themselves into into uh that famous ferris bueller sequence and yeah the the two of them you know we're talking about different aspects different ways you you kind of use that that brand equity that you have that familiarity and and and value you have as a sports team in in different areas um and susan goodnow from the chicago bulls was talking about not just the way they show up in culture and the way that they the way that they meet their community but also the way that they deal with their own legacy and of course they were an incredibly successful team in a period that is now really quite culturally relevant let's hear now from so susan goodenow from the chicago bulls on that culturally relevant period for the bulls which was the 1990s.