Charlie Buck: the Lyvera CEO on the value of 'roaming' and other sports hospitality trends

0:03Charlie Buck:Hello and welcome to the Leaders Worth Knowing podcast, the sports industry show from Leaders where we talk to the people worth knowing in the business of sport this week. I'm Leaders Editorial Director James Emmett and on the show this week a discussion about sports hospitality with our guest Liveira Chief Executive Charlie Buck. Now Charlie was made Chief Executive of Liveira when the group was founded back in March this year. Sports hospitality giant Levy launched this new umbrella brand for its portfolio of businesses. Liveira is the name and it's part of ambitious plans to double turnover for the group to 350 million pounds by 2028 some familiar sports industry names within that group live era comprises keith prowse gulliver's sports travel the experience golf line venue portfolio events international the venues collection and the iLuca Collective.

1:16Charlie Buck:They have some standout clients across the world of sport. Between them, Wimbledon, St Andrews, the Jockey Club, Allianz Stadium and tens and tens of rights holder organisations through Levy across the US and Europe. On the agenda, trends in premium experience. What's selling? Why? environments are becoming more playful um more ambulatory if that's a word people are able to roam at sports events more than they used to be and where things are going as well as leadership and charlie's own career journey that's taken him from player representation at wassman through various sales roles at city football group wasps iron man warner brothers discovery and surrey county cricket club this is charlie buck and with us now in the studio is charlie buck charlie thanks very much for being here where have you where have you come from charlie uh where have i come from today i've come from hartfordshire it's his home but i uh hot stepped it back from royal burkdale yesterday um and actually on the way up from edgebustin on tuesday so it's been a sporting week and it's great to be back in Wimbledon because I haven't been haven't been here enough in the last three weeks.

2:42Charlie Buck:Yeah I'm sure the sarcasm dripping through there Charlie yeah it's a mad it's an amazing period I mean it's always this sort of period of the summer here in the UK anyway it's just sort of sports event after sports event but it does feel like this year it is particularly busy or there is a particular demand for sports tickets and sports experiences maybe it's something to do with the fact that um obviously the world cup is in the mix as well uh amazingly sunny weather we haven't had a single day of rain i think for any of these major events um let's talk about a few of them then how was birkedale yesterday what did you what did you see what was your experience like yeah it's great i did i'm a big golf fan and that's a traditional open setting with the sun kind of baked out the fairways it was i mean some places it was just a it was a beach where the grass had sort of separated from the dunes you know hundreds of thousands of fans there um really great setting was up there hosting some um some partners from the from the jockey club uh obviously great place for for meetings got some of our experienced golf guys up there uh so so meeting a few people from golf got to follow a few holes which was nice um yeah lots of sport on but you you really get to sit down and watch a bit so um yeah really good and some some good new stuff up there uh peppermint uh one of our our levy brands is delivering a lot of the concessions up there as well so good to see some of some of those units while i was up there as well golf is i think one of the best it's one of the best business hospitality environments i think just because it's not non-stop intense action you can you can do quite a lot of chatting and and and sort of moving around as well i always find golf interesting environment it's great for meetings as well you don't have to go inside anywhere you know i met a couple of people yesterday and it was let's just go walk a couple of holes you know talk catch up and yeah you might see some some shots as well yeah you might see some world-class golfers on your on your walk and talk um so you mentioned wimbledon there um live era and the various brands underneath live era particularly Keith Prowse known for historic work with Wimbledon how was it for you this year yeah it was great uh not just Keith Prowse so so obviously our ownership company Levy deliver all the all the food and drink at Wimbledon and have been doing for a significant number of years now and yeah as you rightly say Keith Prowse deliver all of the exclusive hospitality across the championships for the for the two weeks and it's just such a showcase event for us um you know i was down there for probably a good 10 days it went fantastically well for us it was it sun was out uh makes things a lot easier really well oiled uh drill team great partnership with the club down there so it went really well uh but the great and the good of sport there you know loads of different industry people there so the ability to to showcase what we do uh is a huge opportunity for us so lots of show rounds uh lots of meetings um and it's just a sport that's that's going from strength to strength and and that all england club and the brand of wimbledon is um is exceptional uh and keeps growing we're already back on on sale for next year um i was actually chatting to sally Bolton the outgoing CEO at Wimbledon yesterday and as you do I was sort of quizzing her on what she thinks her legacy is going to be and one of the sort of big things that she pointed to was enhancing the experience across the grounds for every level of guests she was talking about having brought in the folks from Disney experiences to sort of train people and offer new types of experiences and the hospitality offering really at the core of that.

6:47Yeah so and we've evolved that hospitality offering since around 2019 and it's in line with the themes of premium experiences and experiences itself so we've got different experiences, more traditional kind of Skyview suite boxes that you would expect to see. We've got an amazing inbuilt temporary facility structure with a sort of counter-levered balcony, the Rosewater Pavilion, which is again more formal, kind of sit down, but live music, on-site, Centre Court tickets. But then we've sort of gone across the road and got a bit more creative with our lawn facility. and within that we've got a 60 person Le Gavroche offering which we broker with Michelle Rue that's been in place we took that concept off the high streets the only place you can attend Le Gavroche is the two weeks of Wimbledon we've got an outside sort of mini Henman Hill environment with a mini lake and a slide that comes down from our treehouse facility which was our sort of nod to more flexibility more informal bowl food sweet shops fun music it's very playful and i think it's when people want to come and have that experience but they don't want to be sat sort of wedded to their person next to them or a table of 10 it's come in out go watch some tennis return back when you want uh similar similar types of things that i think most most sports are trying to move to to offer that flexibility that creativity with the offer as well let's take

8:32Charlie Buck:a step back charlie and um and maybe uh drill a little bit into the role so you've relative relatively recently um been um installed as ceo of liveera group what is that yeah i joined uh I joined Levy probably 19 months ago now. I was a commercial director at the Oval and a client or we were a partner of Levy at the time of the joint venture there. And I guess it started with a conversation with John Davies, the CEO of Levy, around the offering that Levy has away from the food and beverage side of things. and their journey towards a more full-service partner offering to rights holders and the brands that they had in place there.

9:19And we got talking and I sort of found myself coming across to sit across those businesses. So around the sports and entertainment marketing and experience side of Levi's businesses. So at the time that was Keith Prowse, Lime Venue Portfolio and their diary managed business that sells events into iconic sports venues when sport isn't being played. Right. And then the experience golf business that we had at the time and the remit was to come in and how do we join those businesses up to create a more cohesive proposition and to be able to offer a more rounded service alongside Levy. at the time finishing the acquisition of Gulliver Sports Travel and the Events International business.

10:09And we had just started conversations around the iLuca Collective at the time. And the sort of the simple proposition was is what you have there is a fully fledged experienced business separated into a multitude of different brands. And how do we clean up that proposition to the marketplace hence the creation of of live era group and then separating that out into four very clear sectors which would be premium experiences combining our events international proposition with keith prouse our sports travel business uh gulliver sports travel mixed with the play side of the experience golf um our events and and hotels business so essentially how do we bring business and corporate events into iconic stadiums and venues on a non-match day.

11:01And then the only place we weren't sort of playing in was how do we create experiences for brand partners and sponsors? And the iLuca Collective have been doing that for a good number of decades now across a multitude of major events. So we can now, you know, we've got a full comprehensive offering selling to corporates, high net worths, VIPs, sports fans, sports players, and now brand partners.

11:25Charlie Buck:as well yeah okay and as ceo of the group what do you find yourself focusing on the most at the moment where do you spend your time um so growth growth in a few different ways um looking still looking at you know mergers acquisitions to to build our offering further international expansion typically our offering has been mainly uk focused uh but with sport being you know such a global sport the the customers that are coming in from the us to experience some of our events in the in the uk from wimbledon to tost andrews um we've you know we've got uh links to australia with levy and what we've done there we've done some consultancy work down there it's how do we set this proposition up in a more international scale so uh and then sort of transformational partnership deals uh the the jockey club is a is a good sort of moment for us to say look you know if we um if we come with from significant investment we you know we have the ability to take on more services um you know and so that's that's translated into extending that food and beverage deal to full premium experiences both on a race day and a non-race day as well.

12:46So it's largely growth focused, setting up from an international structure and then working with the MDs of the relevant businesses and to ensure that there's more of a look across the businesses. So they've been absolutely excellent and wonderful at doing what they know best, but we really feel we can win and rights holders can benefit by combining a lot of what we do, combining that expertise, so getting the MDs to work more with each other across those business lines is a key fundamental for me.

13:22Charlie Buck:I'm interested in your view, your sort of macro view on premium experiences in sport, the sports hospitality market. I suppose. And I appreciate that you guys don't, you know, you haven't worked on the World Cup, but there's some extraordinary figures coming out of the hospitality operation at the World Cup. I think something like 600 ,000 premium hospitality sort of spaces allocated across the tournament. They've got 16 ,000 premium guests for the final this coming weekend. And who knows how much revenue that has driven for FIFA, but it's not insignificant. We mentioned earlier the kind of glut of sports events that we're going through at the moment here in the UK, just in the space of two weeks.

14:13Charlie Buck:We've got, you know, the British Grand Prix, Wimbledon, the Open is one thing after another. Is this a golden era for sports hospitality or is it sort of stretching what the market can bear? um no i think sport is is going through a moment um i don't think we can be we can just accept that growth will just continue to come and come and come but i think right now the demand is certainly there i think we've found since covid people want experiences perhaps over you know tangible gifts and things they'll they'll save up they want to experience those moments with friends colleagues colleagues family etc so the market is still definitely there i think the key is that each year you just have to keep it's almost that constant feedback cycle right you've got to keep iterating the product you've got to keep adding value so you're not just stretching the price because you know the consumer's there and they want it each time you've got to keep adding value but right now yeah i i did you look at the not just on the experience side of the marketplace right the investments coming into sport as a as a whole it shows that sports going through a moment and people want to experience great moments and that's the passion point for me right is you know you're at the open yesterday you're you know walking past Hemman Hill or Arthur's seat or whatever we're calling it and seeing Arthur Therry do what he did for two weeks yeah sport has that sort of untouchable um are we calling it Arthur's seat?

15:51Charlie Buck:I have no idea. I just, I think I read that. Yeah. That might be early. Makes a degree of sense, but yeah, I think we're going, I think we're calling it early. I think we're calling it early there. I think I'll forever be on Hemman Hill, unfortunately. It's Rosetsky rich for me. Yeah. I mean, it's about, sport has that, you know, untouchable moments will always be created. You've got to be there. Can I get the ticket? I must have the ticket. and you know as you'll see from some of those numbers of the world cup right that higher end market of accessing the best ticket you can is is there right now yeah um what are you seeing yeah i mean you talk about iterating the experience and like if you're going to charge more and try to build in revenue growth next year you have to be demonstrating that you are growing the product as well and offering something new so what are the the kind of big trends that you're seeing in premium experiences in sport and that you're tapping into and and helping to iterate yourself yeah i think it comes back to that flexibility uh you know the stuff we we spoke about with with the tree house and having a slightly different offer you know i think we have one downstairs which is a sit down you know three course meal but you you can give people a glimpse upstairs with a with something else you know go have a look around and that might be for them next year actually I do want something more informal something more playful uh and I think that is the move that the sports industry you know should be going towards a you know we don't do up the open but walking around yesterday they've they've done some really good things around the hospitality offer there um you know I think when you when you go to golf hospitality as you said you want to be out watching golf walking the course and sitting down in a fixed location for a long period of time is probably not conducive to that so what they've tried to do is combine a few different spots on the course so you know you could you have your breakfast somewhere but then you might walk to seven and you've got another place that you can check into with a viewing platform etc which kind of creates that flexibility with the offer um and you're not you know fixed to one to one spot which in turn for me as a as a golf fan yeah would would add value to my proposition and and therefore you know increase the price point or or whatever it is so it's definitely that um it's definitely tapping into what the customer wants what the what the what the partner you're working with as well we want we um you know it's important to have a a partnership with the rights holder and venue that you're working with so you can understand what they're after too um it's a simple example but the emirates buggies that we use to you know to go from gate five to the treehouse it's you know i feel like the walk is fine but it's just that little extra layer of personalized buggy service will pick you up will take you to the treehouse will drop you back at the gates but you know knowing what you know wimbledon want in terms of creating assets for their brand partners is how do you wrap around an Emirates proposition, an Evian meet and greet station that's going to add value to them and their partners, but then also to our guests on the ground as well.

19:16Yeah. What about in terms of, I guess, marketing these propositions?

19:23Charlie Buck:It does strike me that in general, the sort of consumer economy is moving towards, we're going through the premium economization of everything, if that makes sense. You know, in the airline industry, this sort of creation of the premium economy category has been wildly popular. And the idea that you've got multiple tiers of hospitality, I suppose, or multiple tiers of, you know, premium experience. Do you see that translating into a sort of sports hospitality environment as well? Yeah, definitely. I think for a long time we've operated hospitality at what I would call the middle tier, which is the hospitality offer that everyone would have in their heads.

20:10And the two areas that are really growing in this space are the ultra high end, the top, how do I get the ticket, is it the best ticket? And, you know, as long as I'm getting value for money on that, that's, you know, I don't mind what the price point is. that other the sort of the the premium ticket or ticket plus or entry-level hospitality is that is that other end i'm going to save up i never you know go for a slightly nicer experience maybe less queue time or a slightly nicer meal that but informal relaxed hospitality is is definitely the other area that we're seeing huge huge growth in where people want to come with twos or fours it's an online purchase.

20:57There's a huge amount of growth in that and flexing the offer to sort of change the percentage from almost X amount in GA, X amount in hospitality. It's almost GA, GA plus entry level, you know, mid tier premium and then ultra high end to give that flexibility of choice. I think everyone's going to be, you know, trying to focus on with their with their offer and and and they're around their venues or or events that they're looking at

21:28Charlie Buck:so choice um playfulness and giving people a glimpse of other hospitality environments that they might want to experience at another time freedom to roam you know to roam yeah the oval corinthian roof terrace yeah um stuff i said at the open the tree house you know it's that I can go and watch what I want to watch. I can come back. I can eat. I can have a drink. I can have a chat. I can go back and watch the sport. It's that freedom to roam, which I think people are really responding to. Yeah. What about elsewhere? Outside of the kind of Liveira, Levy, Keith Prowse kind of environment, what's really impressed you recently?

22:12Charlie Buck:Are there particular sports events that you've either witnessed firsthand, maybe even other premium environments? We talked about airlines or I talked about airlines. What's impressed you recently? Oh, it's a good question. I tend to spend a lot of time at the events that we're in. I did, I think actually, I attended the Winter Olympics in Milan. And what was interesting there is almost the out-of-venue hospitality, which is interesting. I think, you know, as such a scaled event like that, it's a case of I've got my ticket, but I've traveled to the games. what am I doing with that as well? So the branded fan parks and the houses that were in situ there were really interesting in the activations there and the narratives around the Olympic story.

23:16So you came in and an immersive experience and the Samsung one stood out for me. That was really interesting. So I walked, it was in a grand house in the middle of Milan and it was a really immersive experience as you can imagine with loads of digital screens, Olympic torches. I think they had every Samsung phone from the various different Olympics that existed when phones were around. So you had the flip phones and everything. And there was a story and an Olympic moment attached to each of those phones. And again, it was that sort of experience that you were getting and you were walking through the different rooms before you then sat down, had a drink, had a meal.

24:02Yeah, I found that pretty interesting.

24:06Charlie Buck:This development, I mean, I think what you're tapping into there is, again, it's the idea of choice, isn't it? And sort of ability to roam around a particular sort of complex of venues. And I think this idea of a hospitality house, whether it's a sponsor, whether it's a sort of rights holder, there's definitely been growth in that area attached to kind of major events. Olympics has been really good at kind of developing that and I know I Luca the folks at I Luca are out in New York at the moment delivering FIFA house is it for the World Cup final what else is on your slate at the moment can you here's a test now Charlie within the group who are the who are the sort of current slate of partners that you're working with obviously Wimbledon you've got some Andrews as well who are the other major partners that you're working with yes so we've got Wimbledon Queens uh the LTA we've got the Oval Edgbaston from premium experience perspective we've run tours down under from Gulliver's from the Lions to the Rugby World Cup that we're doing right now Ashes tours um I can't list them all so I know if I've forgotten anyone we Iluca currently working at the World Cup with FIFA, but have been working with the Olympics for a long period of time and activating their brand partnerships, your Deloitte's, Adidas's, TCL's, running houses and activation programs there.

25:39And then on the sort of event management and sales side of things, we're selling all non-match day events at Man United at Old Trafford through our line venue portfolio and our diary managed business. And we do that. across a number of different venues, Burnley, Sheffield United. And then we've got, you know, as a lot of hospitality premium experience agencies do, a lot of agency contracts where, you know, if someone wants a ticket, we'll find it and we'll broker it as well. So I've probably forgotten a fair few there. And then there's the Levy ecosystem that we plug into that has over 50 old venues in the UK.

26:25And now in Germany, we've got, I think, seven or eight venues. We've got the Johan Cruyff Arena in Amsterdam. And the Levy brand is down under now working on the Australian Open. And then the US business is vast and huge with Levy restaurants out there.

26:41Charlie Buck:So, yeah, there's a fair few things on the slate. Big old list of clients, yeah. is there anything that's particularly exciting you at the moment are there any particular projects anything new any recent deals that that you're that was a lovely tip that was a lovely tea up because uh the most recent major one uh jockey club so yeah yeah we we extended our jockey club deal um it was a levy food and beverage contract we've uh we've taken over all of the the premium experience marketing sales and delivery and all of the non-race day as well as the the merchandise there as well um so that i mean that launched in in march post cheltenham festival so there's a lot of feasibility work going on around how do we improve the tiering and the offer uh what should we be investing in either infrastructure or changing the um the tiering around so there's a huge amount of work going on behind the scenes with with those race courses and those festivals and how we can move those forwards.

27:44And that's a huge, you know, 20-year deal, long-term deal. So a lot of investment going into getting that right. So that's keeping us busy. There's, as I mentioned, a five-year extension to St. Andrews, and we're launching actually our 1867 club next year in the build-up to the Open. so that is a female only 16 person event across four courses up in in Scotland which is going to happen a couple of weeks or three or four weeks before the open with the grandstands up 1867 was the first time women putted at the old course and that mirrors our her story concept at Keith Prowse where we run a female focused hospitality program across the championships at Queens and and Wimbledon as well.

28:37So we want to be creating more of those concepts as we move forward. And yeah, there's a few larger deals that we are looking at, which would encompass a few of the different, I guess, verticals under Live Era that are definitely keeping us busy at the moment as well.

29:00Charlie Buck:The racing deal, the jockey club deal, um it always strikes me that horse racing in the uk at least is kind of a bellwether for how the sort of sports hospitality industry is going like if if attendances and premium experience sales at the top racing events are good and growing then the rest of it is good and growing and you know the converse is true as well i wonder where you think racing is at the moment in terms of its offering and take up yeah and we we've seen a good start for for next year's i mean entries continue to go in from from strength to strength i think what they've done with the whole fan experience at entries is fantastic um over the course of those days um and sales going well there and i think and we'll try and look at it from uh yes you want to capture that racing market but you want to put on great events that people want to get to and experience and if you can land the playful roaming different levels of experience then it becomes a booking or a a yearly feature or staple for for someone to go i want to i want to go to that event and then there's racing there as as well so yeah that's what we're investing in and we're investing in the product to ensure that, you know, people want a great day out at the end of the day.

30:26And then, yeah, the racing sits with it as well.

30:29Charlie Buck:Yeah. As we talked about, relatively recently installed as chief executive of this new holding group, Live Era, focused on growth in general. And I guess telling the story of Live Era to various different stakeholders. um what have you what keeps you up at night as a ceo of this organization what have you found is sort of niggling at you um since you've taken over um i think it's very important for things not to keep you up at night um as a ceo so i probably i probably start there i i tend to try and focus on controlling the controllables and you've always got a plan the the next day when you wake up and get on the train and start sifting through emails so i'm fairly good so far uh not having things keep me up at night but i think it's um protecting the core relationships that we have with the with the brand the hugely successful brands that we have already ensuring that you know whilst we've created this this holding group the the idea is that those brands are better together and we're offering a you know more cohesive stronger proposition to the marketplace um you know rather than fully changing anything so it's just ensuring that that message is communicated well that the you know the teams are incentivized and motivated by the the growth journey ahead of us and the the expansion that uh that we want to make uh and and with that comes people so So, you know, for me, just ensuring that the people are motivated to come on this journey with Levy and with Live Era is probably the main focus.

32:23Because, you know, the deals and the conversations and the creation of new products and experiences, that's the fun bit. And we get to impact loads of people's lives in a really positive sense there, right? people experiencing great moments in in sport the more we can do that the better um and just making sure that you know the people within live era making that happen you know are really motivated by that you know how many people there are across the group now i do yeah with the with the venues collection the hotel group it's it's around 800 so yeah yeah it's a there's a there's A fair few.

33:00Charlie Buck:Yeah. And bearing that in mind and, you know, the four different areas that you've got live era businesses sort of working in and then the hundreds of clients that you work with and you listed a few earlier. That's a lot of stakeholders for you to get to grips with. And that's just in your kind of immediate environs. um what is your now that you are a sort of leader and a hub for all of those stakeholders what is your approach to stakeholder management um our patience um patience calmness logic uh is probably what i've and so i preach it but that's it's it's maybe what i try and focus on because there is always, you know, there's always solutions.

33:58There's always a way to look forward on things. And if you're calm and you can deliver your message to the right stakeholder in the right way, then you're usually going to get to a decent place. And then ultimately the respect for people that you're dealing with as well. You know, everyone on the same level, everyone above you, everyone below you is an expert in what they do. so ultimately they're going to come with with great insights and great value and so you need to be able to listen to all of those and take those on board and then if someone needs you to then make a decision based off that yeah then that then that's great but from my perspective everyone that I speak to is more of an expert in in the field than I'll ever be um so that's quite quite key to to respect that and um and recognize that when you're having those conversations with

34:50Charlie Buck:those different stakeholders yeah and what's the nuts and bolts of the kind of corporate structure and process at the moment obviously you've got all of these distinct companies and brands but are you effectively operating as one whole company or are you operating as distinct companies and you have a kind of weekly monthly board meeting uh more the latter so we definitely want to move to a bit more of one group, but ultimately maintaining the individuality of those businesses. So as I said, we've got, well, actually we take from the top, right? So you've got Compass, Compass Group, FTSE 100 or whatever company, massive global caterer, Levy sport and leisure arm of that.

35:35And then Live Era sits as the sort of sports entertainment event arm of Levy from a sales marketing and delivery perspective. So Liveira is under Levy. Yes. Yes. So John Davis, CEO of Levy. Yeah. And then I've got a board, Board of Governance for Liveira. And then I've got group roles that will sit within Liveira and I guess sort of oversee excellency across each of the business groups. And then MDs that will run those brands and those businesses still. And then I have a, um, exec leadership team, uh, that consists of those, um, leaders of central functions and then the MDs them themselves, uh, that ladder up to me and then I ladder up to my, to my board.

36:24Charlie Buck:Yeah. Okay. Um, and what have you found challenging thus far about that? Um, everyone's got their own number to hit. and everyone yeah I mean everyone has their day job and their focuses right you've got Iluka at the moment in the US delivering FIFA house and you know Keith Krause has just come off the back of of Wimbledon and straight into Edgbaston you know there's a lot of there's a lot of stuff going on so there's a balance between yeah oh let's let's align focuses here and let's think strategically about Live Era with actually no let's deliver the very, very busy summer that we've got going at the moment.

37:08So it's essentially ensuring the, you know, day-to-day is looked after, but freeing up that 20 % of time for the MDs just to stick their head above and go, right, okay, how can we best, how can we improve as a business based off those other business units? Or how can we bring some of that expertise into the partners that we're working with? So that's the tricky bits, freeing up that time and that focus to be able to do that.

37:33Charlie Buck:Yeah. Is your LinkedIn up to date? Do you know? Is it true? Yes. Good. Good. Of course. Well, if it is true. I think so. You've had quite a varied career, you know, in the field of sort of sales and sports leadership. But just looking back at the various organizations that you've worked for, starting off at Wasserman Agency, City Football Group, Williams, Wasps, So I see lots of sort of rights holders in different sports there. Ironman and then a spell at Warner Brothers Discovery on their golf channels, selling into the golf channels. And then Surrey County Cricket. And then here you are now.

38:18Charlie Buck:Across those different roles in sort of different types of organization, what skill or skills do you feel like you have acquired and refined as you've gone through your career? that you didn't have at the beginning? Yeah. So, I mean, if we go back to the start, so I'd like to say Wasserman was, I was working for the football agency side of the business. So that was a really good... As in representation? Representation, good grounding in sales. You know, short amount of time to convince players that they may or may not want to come and join your business. But I also, I had the opportunity to start Tim Cahill's Coaching Clients in Australia.

39:00Um, so sort of first out the gate was working across different time zones, um, uh, traveling, putting on events, uh, which was, was interesting. So it was, it was a, it was a mix and that one just taught me drive and, uh, working hours and volume that you could, that you could probably achieve. Yeah. Um, and then, you know, fortunate enough to join a, I would say entrepreneurial huge growth engine of City Football Group at the time where it was pretty much just launching. I actually joined Man City and then two months later the New York City FC deal was announced and I was in a 10-person office in Mayfair that transitioned into a 60-person office within about six months and had the benefit of selling global sponsorships with all the different clubs.