How do you run an international sports event in China?

0:03Hello and welcome to another edition of the Leaders Worth Knowing podcast, the podcast by, about, for With Leaders in Sport. My name is David Cushnan. I'm the content director round here. No James Emmett this week. We're sort of doing a tag teaming act over the next couple of weeks as the final preparations continue for Leaders Week London. Now just two weeks away. A reminder in case you needed it and in case you still need to pick up your pass that the summit at Allianz Stadium Twickenham is on Wednesday the 1st and Thursday the 2nd of October. We've got a great programming. We've got all the sports industry together in one place.

0:47Private forums, all sorts of surprises in store as well. Before that, during the week, Tuesday the 30th of September, don't forget the Leaders Sports Awards, back better than ever at the V &A Museum in the heart of central London. Always a great night of celebration. We've got our Leaders Club forum happening on Tuesday the 30th as well. We've got a private attention seekers workshop happening on Monday the 29th of September. Check out the full agenda for the week and start making your plan for how to maximise your Leaders Week at leadersinsport.com slash leadersweek. On the podcast today, we are going to have a conversation with Kirsten Lutz, who is the CEO of the Billie Jean King Cup, which of course is the national team competition for women in tennis.

1:43And the finals are taking place as we speak right now in Shenzhen, China, the top eight teams of the year competing for victory. This is a competition that has a pretty grand history, known previously as the Fed Cup, of course, but taken over by Billie Jean King and Mark Walter of the TWG Group, owner of, amongst other things, the LA Dodgers, also heavily involved in Cadillac's new Formula One project, the Professional Women's Hockey League, as well in the US. They took over in 2023 and as the operating company for the competition. Kirsten joined in April last year, April 2024, coming in as CEO and taking over the operations of the tournament, building out with a mandate to build out its commercial programme and also work on this first year in Shenzhen, a multi-year deal with the Chinese city.

2:48She's going to talk us through all of that, how it came to be, how preparations for this year's tournament have gone, what she's expecting from it as well. I think you're going to enjoy this one. A timely conversation with Kirsten Lutz, the CEO of the Billie Jean King Cup. Kirsten Lutz is with us, the CEO of the Billie Jean King Cup, all the way live on the line, direct from Shenzhen, China. Kirsten, how are you? Good, good. We're excited. We're kicking off. It's been a long year in preparation, so we're excited it finally starts. Excellent. And I imagine you're dealing with hundreds of little problems as the final build-up gets underway, such is the nature of running big events.

3:37Exactly. Maybe tell us, first of all, about your experience of Shenzhen. I imagine a lot of people listening won't have been there. And I guess that's part of the reason why they're hosting this tournament in order to draw more attention to that part of the world. What sort of city have you encountered in Shenzhen? A very young city. It's only 45 years old, developed from a very little fishing town into one of the top three cities in China. So So in terms of the business, you feel it. It's very business, very tech, very innovative, like in terms of what they're bringing in. It's a beautiful city.

4:23It's very green. They're very focused on sustainability as well. So it's probably not what you would expect when you come over. But I have to say, the people have been fantastic, welcoming. They're working very, very hard. I have to say we've been really quite surprised with the effort that's been put in over the last three weeks, especially to get it all together from pretty much a bare stadium into what we have today. So, no, it's a very vibrant, very young city. And a lot of people show us great support here. So we're very happy. You mentioned the local organization there. Maybe tell us a little bit about the genesis of this deal, because it's a multi-year deal, as I understand, for Shenzhen to host the finals of the Billie Jean King Cup.

5:13And this is year one, so all very new and different, I'm sure. Who are the key people that you're working with in Shenzhen and how have those relationships blossomed over the past few months as you get towards the start of the competition? Yeah, there's several different parties involved. Starts with the China Tennis Association, who are obviously very closely linked to the event. But also the district here, which is the Nanshan District, which is a district which a lot of the big tech companies and the new companies are hosted in. So it's a very business driven area of the city. Then the city of Shenzhen themselves, obviously, with the Cultural, Tourism and Sport Bureau.

6:01And then the organization is all done by a group called China Resources Group. They own the stadium that we're in, and they're really together with us and the ITF running the event. So there's kind of these four groups that are very heavily involved. with the closeness to Hong Kong. We're also interacting with the Hong Kong Tennis Association on the front, but they're all very, very closely linked. And it's been, obviously, when you come to a new city, we've seen that every time is you have some getting used to working with each other, with different cultures, with different politics, with different ways of getting things done.

6:46so a lot a lot of learnings over the last few months but the good thing is it was always in a very good spirit and and in in collaboration everybody wants this to be a success and and shenzhen itself has brought out a couple of excellent tennis players there's a lot of focus on sport and wellness and and health in this city as well that you really feel when when you're in the city. And tennis is a key sport for them that they also want to continue to develop. That's why we're here. What's your advice to any rights holder who is looking to stage an event, be more active in China? Obviously, the country has been on the radar of the international, the Western sports industry for many years, of course, bit of a pause, bit of a dip during and after the COVID period, but now I think clearly re-emerging.

7:41Given your experience over the last few months and the last few weeks and probably the last few hours, what advice would you have for anybody who's working for a league or an event looking to host something in the country? I think the understanding of the region that you go into in terms of how the government is structured is very important. And you need to find a good connection with them because they're obviously absolutely key in getting things done. And they want to be involved and they want to be helpful. So I think that that's a key learning for us. You can't get it done without their support.

8:23The link to the federation, I mean, for us, it was very important to have the link with the CTA through the ITF as well. I think the Chinese people are very interested in the performance of their national teams and their athletes when they're representing the country. So for us as the Billie Jean King Cup, we can bring that, right? We're a nation's tennis, which WTA and ATP don't have. So the play on that is also very important because that will buy you a lot of support locally. But also don't think they don't understand what they're getting themselves into. They're very careful with how the money is spent and that they get a benefit out of it.

9:10I think that's, you know, they're very savvy when it comes to that as well. So you're dealing with very experienced people that know what needs to be done, but they're very open to working internationally. We felt that. They really want international events to come. they've opened up again after covid which was a very difficult time for them as well like everybody else so uh yeah but that that structure and and how you get things done i think uh we definitely needed help without that you know you can't do it on your own that's absolutely clear let's talk a little bit more generally about the uh the billy jean king uh cup and uh obviously a huge history previously known as the Fed Cup and now under this relatively new branding.

10:02And there was this key moment before you joined the organization back in August 2023 when Billie Jean King, but also Mark Walter and the TWG group got involved in the competition and took over the operations of the competition. Tell us a little bit about, first of all, your experiences working with both Billie Jean King and Mark Walter and how that new operating structure has grown and evolved since then. I think forces of nature is probably the right word for both of them. For both of them. Mark Walter is just absolutely key in terms of supporting women's sports, right? He was one of the first ones to invest in it.

10:44And that ethos sort of comes through in everything that we discuss with TWG Group. That is very clear. They want to make sure that it's a sustainable business. you know it's a it's a meant it's not a charitable donation from there so you know we have a business plan that we need to work towards and it's expected that that we're delivering on that front but but they kind of let us get on with things um uh Billie Jean herself is is very involved you know it it carries her name this is this is a legacy project for her and she does everything to make sure where she can support. She does support. She's here today.

11:26She met with all the teams to make sure that they understand what we stand for. You know, when you have the name of Billie Jean, you stand for something automatically. And that we're trying to live every day. And we want the teams also to be aware of that. And it's beautiful to see how they embrace her. You know, when she comes, everybody wants a picture with her still. So this is, you know, it never gets old to have her support. And obviously she and her partner, Ilana, who is on the board, Ilana Kloss, they open many very, very important doors. And that's been invaluable in pushing our agenda forward.

12:09And you also have the, as you mentioned, the International Tennis Federation involved in terms of sanctioning the tournament. and they have historically been involved. Where do they sit now in this new structure and how does all of that work together? Because different dynamics amongst the key stakeholders. Certainly different dynamics, yeah. And it's a balancing act, to be honest, because you can imagine the ITF, you know, the guardian of the sport, right, who obviously has a lot of different things to balance and we're just one part of it, right? And then on the other hand, you have somebody who bought into this as an investment and really wants this to do well.

12:53So it's a balancing act to make sure that we strike both levels. The good is they all know each other very well. There are good discussions, you know, that you need to try to find, again, a compromise in making it happen on both sides. But so far, I have to say, we've experienced the support of both of them. And honestly, we need both of them to make this happen, right? We need somebody who pushes the commercial agenda, but somebody who also, you know, guards the sport and understands the sports politics in tennis, which, as you probably know as well, are not few. Yeah, interesting in your take on that, having come into the role, and we'll talk about your role in particular in a moment.

13:40But as you hint, tennis has many different stakeholders, whether that's the four grand slams or the ITF, as you say, the ATP, the WTA. And there's a lot of conversation we know happening, sometimes public, sometimes not so public in terms of shaping the future of the sport. As somebody who's got a window into that now and is part of some of those discussions as well, I'm sure. Tell us what the reality of that sort of working ecosystem is like. Where are the challenges? Where are the pinch points? But also what opportunities does having the power across the sport maybe separated out, potentially open up?

14:25I was surprised how divided it seemed, you know, first when you get in. But like you said, I think there are a lot of opportunities and everybody is aware of those opportunities. It's just making sure that they all come together and everybody needs to compromise a little bit. You know, and that's the challenge that you have in every other sport as well. You know, I mean, it's 25 years in football. It's no different there, you know, to make sure the clubs agree with the federation and so forth. That's always your objectives come first. But, you know, for I think everybody has their space as well, which I find maybe sometimes it's a bit forgotten.

15:09You know, the ITF is developing the sport on the not just profession, but grassroots level, you know, without the structure of the clubs and the coachings and the official education and all of that. That is the base for the sport. Right. And then you have the tours who are about the professional aspect of it. And we come in as a nation's team event, which really doesn't compete with the WTA in many aspects. Yeah, of course, we argue about calendar. Of course, we argue about players. That's very natural. But in a way, they can really very well sit next to each other. And we have a good relationship with the WTA.

15:53There's a very open dialogue about the issues that we need to work through. but they're not easy discussions, but they're being worked through. So I hope to see a lot more, like everybody says, a lot more unifying and tackling this as tennis, because there's so much competition out there. You know, if we compete against each other within the tennis ecosystem, I don't think we do each other service. So I think as a joint tennis kind of proposition, We need to tackle the market and go in this together. We're really not competing with anybody as Billie Jean King Cup. I wanted to touch on the, I suppose, the overall almost year-round nature of the Billie Jean King Cup.

16:37Obviously, this is the finals and we've got the eight finalist national teams competing over the next few days. but you have almost the qualifying process, the qualifying system happening at various levels through the year. Just maybe go into a little bit of depth about the, again, the challenge of, I guess, fighting for space in a very, very busy tennis calendar. And also the way that you organizationally balance up this moment, which is where the spotlight will be very firmly on the competition and the finals, but also making sure that the process, the calendar of qualifying rounds that you have through the year has the same, I guess, care and attention applied to it.

17:30Yeah. I mean, the difference with the final is that we're organizing it, right? We're doing it versus the qualification, the playoffs, and then the regional groups, they're hosted by the national associations. So we're not that deeply involved as we are with the organization of the final, but we're trying to build them up a bit more and actually exploit their commercial value as well. As with many other tournaments, the commercial value sits in the final, but the qualifiers and the playoffs where you can, or even with the regional groups, you literally cover 150 markets in terms of where you can activate, where you can be in as a sponsor or with our broadcast partners.

18:17It's a huge competition. And if you want to truly leverage it, you should leverage as a whole competition. Of course, you will always pick your flagship events to bring the most commercially sensitive things to the table. But we're really trying very hard to now build the qualifiers and the playoffs a lot more. Also, we're starting to sell those, whereas before it was really the focus on the final. But we think it's really the entire competition that would provide value to any kind of partner that comes on board. But it is so vast. It's the biggest team competition for women in the world. It's a beast.

18:57So if you really want to get it all on your radar, then it's a very big thing. So we go step by step now, but the final will continue to be our flagship event. And it's an amazing event when you see it come to life. As you think about the future of the event, two, three years down the line, in your mind, in your team's mind, do you anticipate what we're seeing this week being very different in two or three years time? Or do you think now you've got the essentials in place to make the next two, three years an evolution of what we'll see? Yes, definitely. I mean, it's a very different proposition to the previous years.

19:41Yes. When you come to this final, it's really very much a step up to what we had before. We are in an amazing facility. We're in an amazing city. So the logistics and everything around it is really amazing now compared to the years that we had before, where sometimes we had to deal with temporary structures, for example. You know, just to have an actual massive stadium that we can work with is a huge step for us. so um yes hopefully we can have an evolution from this and this is also why we're really trying very hard to stay in a city for three years so we can build on it you know we can take the learnings and there's plenty of learnings over the last couple of weeks only that we can build on that and make it better every single time we come here but in terms of what they've done the branding the setup and all of it, it's a massive step forward for us.

20:42Now, Kirsten, I have been keeping an eye on my inbox over the last few days, and I've seen a steady stream of partner announcements from the Billie Jean King Cup. They have been coming almost, not quite by the hour, but pretty close to that. So you must be delighted with all of that. Rolex, Adidas amongst them, several more as well. what does that say about where the the competition is at and also again the sort of evolution of what you've been saying in terms of building out your team and the commercial prowess of the competition yeah i think it speaks for women's sports uh to start with that you know there there are a lot of brands out there who want to get involved in women's sports um but they want to do it with a property that uh stands for something as well you know although i have to say a lot of women uh women's sports properties do focus on purpose, focus on community.

21:42So it's a very different cell, I feel, generally in women's sports. So, you know, the association with Billie Jean King, obviously, which stands for something as a brand. Some may not like that, but a lot of brands we feel do really resonate with her message and her fight for equality and women empowerment and just giving everybody the same opportunity. So I think we were able to really package that up in a way that was attractive to key brands out there. I'm not just happy that we have many partners, but the partners that we got in terms of Rolex, MasterCard, GameBridge, Elf Cosmetics, You know, these are all amazing partners that we want to associate with and we want to make sure that they fit with the values that we have.

22:36Because only then can we really also deliver the best value to them. You know, this is what we need to do to attract those partners. So, yeah, I have to say we're very happy. We're very proud of that effort and hopefully also very thankful for them to come on board. Now, you joined the event in April last year, so nearly 18 months on the job, a new job after a very long period working at team marketing. Big move for you. I wonder, and I guess you've sort of touched on this in what you said earlier a little bit, but what was the key in terms of you making the decision to switch out of the role working at team into something very new with a different spotlight, I guess?

23:29Yeah, first of all, tennis is my sport. I grew up playing tennis. So, you know, when you have the chance to work in the sport that you deeply care about, for somebody that has shaped the sport in a way you can imagine with Billie Jean, that obviously was a huge drive. And, you know, I've done football for 25 years. I've done team for 25 years. You know, at one point you think, what more can I deliver to the organization? And I think a team, I'm very proud of what I've done a team. But I think it was also a time to move on. And, you know, the role as a CEO is also something that's obviously interesting.

24:15and I wanted to grow into the role and got the opportunity, which I honestly didn't take for granted because 25 years in one organization, that might be frowned upon by some, but they embraced that and they wanted somebody to come in who understands tennis, likes tennis, but also brings in experience obviously from other sports. So it was a huge challenge also to sort of a reality adjust to, you know, the Champions League figures to, you know, coming to where in effect a smaller property, you know, to rebalance and recalibrate your commercial understanding was hugely interesting and just fascinating to see what's going on outside of the Champions League.

25:07Yeah, I was going to ask about the, I suppose, the skills and experience that you gained working agency side that you feel you've been able to bring across and transfer and apply on the rights holder side. Is there anything particular that you would point to? Because we will have a lot of people listening who work for agencies who are maybe thinking at whatever level of a move to a property rights holder side of things. how does agency life set you up for this i would recommend to everybody to start on agency side you know because it's um it gives you an insight into almost every aspect of of it because a team i was involved in i started you know in sponsorship is is kind of my background but i was out at venues doing event management as a broadcast manager and you know you deal with merchandising you deal with media sales at the end you know I was looking after all the broadcasters so I was kind of involved almost on on all sides with within the the ecosystem so I think I had a very well-rounded view on on what it takes in the industry but I think one of the key things was also very used to being in that sandwich position of UEFA on this side and sponsors and broadcasters on that side.

26:33And as a team, you always had to mediate between the different groups and, again, find the right balance between the different things. And this is exactly the position we're in at BJKCL. We have the ITF. We have TWG. We need to find the best solution for all parties to make it work and to be able to listen and see both sides and then sort of come up with an idea with a compromise. I think that was probably one of the key skills I took with me from that side. But I have to say, once you're out of the agency world, it's probably going to be tough to go back into it as well, you know, because it's just great when you can call the shots, you know, when you can actually make the decisions rather than just make recommendations.

27:22How many interviews did you do for this role? And at what stage in the process did Billie Jean King come into that process? Because I imagine she must have at some stage, right? Yeah, yeah, she did. So the good thing was with T-squared, the last year a team actually was more involved in T-squared, we had discussions with the ITF. So I knew the people at the ITF already. So I think that helped. So actually it wasn't a very elaborate interview process. So I met Billie Jean on the second interview. um i flew to the final in seville and met her i met twg and and alana um and i had a very good time with them and i saw the final first time live in action which was very helpful um and then i met um the itf people one more time but again they they knew us we've worked with them so um that was the easier your part so yeah and then it went pretty quickly after that very good very good um What does your week look like during the finals, Kirsten?

28:29I imagine you've got an incredibly busy diary. Is it more operational stuff? Is it more making sure partners, stakeholders are comfortable, happy? Are you shaking lots of hands? How will you spend your week? Yeah, luckily not so much on operations. I have a very experienced team and Chris Dent on our side is leading those operations. and that's in very good hands. Now, I will be shaking a lot of hands. I will hopefully be watching a lot of tennis that I'm excited about. And yeah, look, seeing all of our partners, obviously from the broadcasters to the sponsors, but also engaging in discussions about the future with the government, the district, the city and the organizers here.

29:18So it will be intense. And what constitutes success at the end of this, both for you and the tournament, but also for your partners in China? There's obviously going to be a wealth of data created. There's going to be broadcast numbers. There's going to be attendance figures for you. What are the metrics that you're going to have absolutely front of mind that will determine at the end of the week whether, yes, we got this right? Yeah, I think the numbers, like you said, are always the base, right? Those are the expected things. And we need to see how much of that data we can gather within China, which is not the easiest thing to do.

30:00but we have now I think we have five actually broadcasters streaming platforms and CCTV five who will broadcast it so that that will be an important factor what what what's the the feedback within the country because we have a couple of the partners that came on specifically because we are in China so it's important that it is a success in China but obviously also international audience figures are very important. The attendance here within is going to be important. So we're hoping for nearly a sold out stadium, at least for the China matches and then semifinals and finals. I mean, as with every other tournament, you will see that some of the neutral matches will probably won't be sold out, but it will be a good attendance.

30:52And then that we have the interaction with the fans here on site is going to be important. The feedback from the teams is always important because we need to make sure they're happy, they want to come back. It's a very special time for them as well. You know, sometimes it's difficult to convince them they should be putting this in their calendar from the start of the season. But when they're here, I think it's such a different experience from their day to day. While they're still practicing hard they have good experience they have great matches but it is a very different experience for them and when you walk around here there's a lot of laughing there's a lot of joking around between the teams as well so that is another very important success factor for us are the teams happy there is something great isn't there about in tennis but in other sports as well we've got the rider cup coming up in the next couple of weeks in golf obviously but team team competition but national team competition in what are usually very individual sports there is there's a magic there isn't there that I guess you're you're trying to capture yeah very much and you really feel it when you're here and and it's I think the players they go sort of through stages obviously at the beginning of your career you know you you need to make sure it works for you as an individual player.

32:14And then they start to come here and they see it. And then when they end, they sometimes regret not having played it more, right? Because it is such a special experience when you're winning as a team, you know, it's just different. And to represent your country, because as a tennis player, you have the Olympics where you do that. And that's kind of it. So I always felt that as an athlete to represent your country, that's the ultimate, isn't it? But obviously the tennis player has a bit of a different mindset but once they I think experience it and this is also Billie Jean's thing for her it was the most important thing to compete for your country and to be successful for your country so we hope that every time the players come and compete in this competition they feel it more and more and it becomes sort of I want to play the Billie Jean King Cup I need to factor that into my planning.

33:04Well it's Monday morning here in London Monday evening with you in Shenzhen. So I'm going to guess you've got a busy evening ahead, just making sure everything's ship shape for a play starting tomorrow. Yeah. Last run. Yeah. Last sort of rehearsals on everything, making sure everything is ready. We have tomorrow. We kick off at five o 'clock tomorrow. So we, if anything is not quite ready, but we're not going to leave today until we find everything is ready to go now. So it's It's super exciting though. Sometimes it's like you said with the big events, it's got to start at one point. So we're very happy it starts tomorrow.