In short
Cricket business and market development (ICC), women’s rights/rightsholder unbundling, sponsorship and leadership moves, European club football season review, and the “problem with pre-game entertainment” (in-stadium concerts vs better fan-zone models).
Guests
No guest interview in this transcript. Main speakers are hosts James Emmett and David Cushnan. Mentioned guest: Anurag Dahir, Chief Commercial Officer at the International Cricket Council (from a separate episode recorded in Bangalore).
Guest backgrounds
Dahir leads ICC commercial strategy; hosts discuss his ICC OTT/media approach and rights strategy.
Key claims
ICC’s in-house OTT (ICC TV) is used to find “pockets of fandom” and data for emerging markets; development is a “development engine” (example: Nepal now has a rights-holding broadcaster). In-stadium music acts don’t work as a broadcast product; better to move concerts outside the stadium.
Notable examples
Nepal, Japan/Germany/South Korea/Nepal/China; Google partnerships with ICC women’s and men’s tournaments; Wicked performing at a Women’s T20 World Cup opener; Arsenal’s title win; Josh Kroenke/Kroenke Sports Entertainment; UEFA/FIFA pre-game concert debate; Wicked/Champions League concert discussion.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOCasual Catch-Up
0:45 to 1:44
Casual banter between hosts about their recent travels and experiences.
“Yes, we were just saying off-air that this is the first time we have bumped into each other here at the Leader's office slash studio since our recent travels, me to New York.”
Insights from the Indian Sports Summit
1:44 to 3:37
Discussion about the recent Indian Sports Summit and insights from a key speaker.
“Did you listen to the content that I brought back from India.”
The Business of Cricket
3:37 to 6:05
Exploration of the ICC's strategies and performance in international cricket.
“And at the outset of this conversation, there are a few things that I wanted to talk to Anir Ag about.”
Global Growth of Cricket
6:05 to 8:00
Discussion on cricket's expansion into non-traditional markets and new initiatives.
“as territories that have, he talked about them lighting up when there's a major event.”
Development Engines in Cricket
8:00 to 9:10
Analysis of how the ICC is developing cricket in emerging nations like Nepal.
“who is the head of digital at the ICC, getting in touch with us at the time that Nepal was lighting up on the ICC's channels during a T20 World Cup, I think it was.”
Women’s Cricket and Media Rights
9:10 to 11:11
Insight into the ICC's approach to women's cricket and media partnerships.
“And he used this really nice phrase, the development engine, that they're getting started in a lot of places around the world.”
Upcoming Women's T20 World Cup
11:11 to 13:12
Preview of the Women's T20 World Cup and its unique promotional strategies.
“that perhaps golf hasn't, you could argue, taken full advantage of a place on the Olympic program.”
Recent Sponsorship Announcements
13:12 to 14:01
Overview of notable sponsorship deals in the sports industry from the past week.
“But this is a tournament that has, we hear, record ticket sales so far.”
Recent Sponsorship Deals in Sports
14:01 to 17:09
Exploring notable sponsorship agreements signed recently in various sports.
“Well, we're going to talk about that kind of thing a bit later, aren't we?”
End of Season European Football Review
17:17 to 23:28
Analyzing the outcomes of recent European football finals and team performances.
“James, you have been keeping your eye no doubt on the flurry of end of season European football finals that we have experienced over the last couple of weeks or so.”
Show all 15 chapters
Arsenal's Branding and Success
23:28 to 28:00
Discussing Arsenal's recent success and its cultural and commercial implications.
“A few other interesting tidbits from the top of the tables across Europe.”
Updates on European Football Promotions
28:00 to 30:02
Learn about the recent promotions of various football clubs in Europe.
“So Tim Laiwiki, formerly of Oakview Group.”
The Chaotic French Open
30:02 to 31:48
Discussion on the unexpected turn of events at the French Open tennis tournament.
“Oh, and actually, sorry, Liga is really interesting.”
Critique of Pre-Game Concerts in Football
31:48 to 34:06
Explore the challenges and ineffectiveness of pre-game concerts in football.
“I love Roland Garros, what a property what a property.”
Debating the Super Bowl Halftime Show Influence
34:06 to 36:22
A discussion on whether football can replicate the Super Bowl halftime show experience.
“in the Super Bowl that cannot be replicated.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:04James Emmett:Hello and welcome to the Leaders Worth Knowing podcast, the sports industry show from leaders where we talk about what's worth knowing in the business of sport this week. I'm Leaders Editorial Director James Emmett.
0:17David Cushnan:And I'm Content Director David Cushnan on the show this week. Who's up, who's down and who are the real winners as the European club football season wraps up? Unpacking the business of national team cricket and how to sell it. And all killers, no fillers. The problem with pre-game entertainment. This is Leaders Worth Knowing. Good. Hello to you, David. How are you?
0:39James Emmett:Untime-specific. Untime-specific greeting to you. It's been a while since we've seen each other.
0:46David Cushnan:Yes, we were just saying off-air that this is the first time we have bumped into each other here at the Leader's office slash studio since our recent travels, me to New York. Me to India. Yeah. Yeah. Well, good to see you. Likewise.
1:00James Emmett:I was off for an extended period last week, the whole week. Yep. Half term. Yep, yep, yep. You took one day for half term.
1:06David Cushnan:Yeah. Kept things moving here at base. Yeah. Kept the newsletter going.
1:10James Emmett:Yeah. I went to the Alps, Dave. Yes. So I heard. The French Alps. What a place. The summertime in the mountains. So good. the UCI World Cup of Mountain Biking is having a stop off very close to where I was. And I did some mountain biking in the neighboring slopes. What a sport. Yes. What a dangerous sport.
1:34David Cushnan:What a challenging, dangerous sport.
1:36James Emmett:Fun though. Yeah. I love the mountains. Absolutely love the mountains. I would urge you to go to the mountains.
1:41David Cushnan:Okay.
1:42James Emmett:Yeah.
1:42David Cushnan:Well, not now. We've got a podcast today. Is that a small talk over? I think so.
1:45James Emmett:Yeah. Did you listen to the content that I brought back from India.
1:49David Cushnan:Yes, I did. I listened to your conversation with Anurag Dahir, the Chief Commercial Officer at the International Cricket Council, one of our speakers who we brought over to the Indian Sports Summit over in Bangalore. And by the way, congratulations to our friends at Royal Challenges Bangalore, RCB. Back to back. They've gone back to back. Men's IPL champions again.
2:15James Emmett:Can I just say on that point, So they have won. But when we did the event, this was two weeks ago, they had just qualified for the playoffs. And Mo Bobat, who is effectively the performance director at Royal Challengers Bangalore, did a session on the sort of building towards the success that they'd had the previous year, but also talking about what they were doing this season. And I would say Mo Bobat is, I'm going to say, the second most impressive performance speaker that I've ever heard. And he's got exactly the same thing in common with the first most impressive performance speaker that I've ever heard, which is Dave Brailsford.
2:52James Emmett:And then they are both excellent at naming a process and naming a project. And clearly it has such a galvanizing force. But yeah, he was talking about the back-to-back and how they were going to do it.
3:06David Cushnan:And did it have a name this year's project?
3:08James Emmett:I think they were calling it Back to Back.
3:09David Cushnan:Oh, Back to Back, I see. Well, congratulations to RCB. Anur Agda here, the Chief Commercial Officer at the ICC, was on stage and in the room with you in Bangalore. And you sat him down, I think just after he'd come off stage, for a very interesting podcast where he took you through a spin through the business of the ICC, really, and what's selling, what's not selling so well at the moment. And actually, one of the more fascinating elements of this conversation, I thought, which you can listen to just down the feed, was the way that he was talking about smaller, more emerging nations and some of the tactics that the ICC is deploying in those markets from a media standpoint, from a content standpoint.
3:58David Cushnan:Yeah, definitely.
3:59James Emmett:And at the outset of this conversation, there are a few things that I wanted to talk to Anir Ag about. There was sort of a few macro things going on in cricket that I really wanted his view on. First of all, there is so much cricket. There is so much domestic cricket. There's so much international cricket. It's a feeling that I think is propounded by the fact that there are many different formats. There's an unusually large number of formats for that sport, and ultimately it's all cricket.
4:25David Cushnan:Well, including one format that over the last 20 years has grown up quickly to become almost the dominant format of cricket. Totally.
4:33James Emmett:There is a growing centre, a newish and rapidly growing centre of power in the sport in India. And there are interesting pockets of growth going on in the sport as well. Geographically, most obviously in the work being done in the US and particularly around the Indian diaspora in the US, bringing they bought the T20 World Cup there. Cricket is on the program for the Olympics when it goes to LA, but also in other interesting and perhaps unexpected territories around the world. And there's also this growth fueled by the IPL and things like the 100. And actually, you know, even though it didn't come to pass the potential sale of the Big Bash franchises, there is new PE money coming into cricket as well.
5:24James Emmett:So lots of sort of macro things to dig into with anurag the thing that i was really impressed with was his grasp on new territories in cricket the development of some of these slightly unexpected pockets of fandom in cricket and he talked about the ott product that the icc has icc tv i think it's called um and he pointed to yeah clearly the u.s is is some is an area that they are working hard to try to build into a prominent cricketing nation. But then he mentioned this range of countries that you never would have expected. So Japan, Germany, South Korea, Nepal, China, as territories that have, he talked about them lighting up when there's a major event.
6:12James Emmett:And this really drives what the fundamental purpose of a lot of these in-house federation OTT products is, and it's something that I think sometimes industry commentators lose sight of, what's the purpose of an in-house OTT product, is to find and reach fans and to gather data to identify where there are pockets of fandom, pockets of value for the sport that traditional distribution methods would not have unearthed.
6:44David Cushnan:Yeah, absolutely. And I think the role of a federation, which is ultimately what the ICC is. For all, it's a commercial entity. It's a not-for-profit. It falls very much into the international federation bracket. And whatever it's doing from a media and content and exposure standpoint to grow the sport and identify the markets in which it can have a real impact, often smaller, more challenger markets, it is also in parallel with that thinking about and tasked with. And the mission of all these federations is to develop the performance. Well, first of all, to provide access to the game in these markets, but then to create the pathways and the structures.
7:32David Cushnan:And it's all the less than visible, you know, some would argue that the boring bits of being an international federation is to create the structures and the governance and ultimately the funding models that will create the pathways to allow a Nepal or some of these other markets to play at a more competitive level, which you can see is something that seems to be happening. Nepal, a good example that Anurag pulled out.
7:58James Emmett:Just to put a little bit more flesh on the bones there, an example, I remember Finn Bradshaw, who is the head of digital at the ICC, getting in touch with us at the time that Nepal was lighting up on the ICC's channels during a T20 World Cup, I think it was. And Finn himself has done a really good job of developing digital products to unearth audiences in places like Nepal. And the kind of flywheel is find pockets of interest, identify them, grow them, build in the territory, develop a competitive market there. And that's what's happened in Nepal. Anirag talked about the fact that there now is a rights-holding broadcaster there.
8:40James Emmett:They do not have to put everything on their own OTT there. There is an entity there that is paying for rights. And at the same time, that's a sort of self-fulfilling thing. You know, more people start playing cricket, they'll become a more competitive nation, et cetera, et cetera.
8:54David Cushnan:And it seems as though he has been allowed the freedom, I suppose, or the license to go for reach rather than have a specific revenue target in these markets, which is the way to go about these things if you are in a position to be able to do so. And he used this really nice phrase, the development engine, that they're getting started in a lot of places around the world. It actually made me think there are a lot of parallels between what the ICC is doing and what World Rugby is doing. And if you look at a couple of the qualifiers for the 2027 Men's Rugby World Cup, you've got Chile, you've got Hong Kong, you've got Spain, where a huge amount of work has been going on to develop rugby union as a sport.
9:37David Cushnan:And you can see the success stories started to come through. These are long, long-term projects. The work will have started perhaps a decade or more ago to be able to get to the point where you have a competitive team qualifying or being given a place in a World Cup in one of these sports. Another point of similarity is the work that
9:58James Emmett:both of them, both federations have been doing for some time now to develop China as a, I mean, obviously it's the land of milk and honey, isn't it? It's a land of such promise for sports entities. But both World Rugby and the ICC have been working through commercial entities and through government relations, through detailed on the ground partner work to kind of get their sports on the agenda, on curriculums, and then commercials follow.
10:28David Cushnan:And if you look ahead to cricket, as you mentioned, becoming an Olympic sport in LA 28, the way that has been framed, and both things can be true, but one way it has been framed is absolutely a way for the IOC to access India in a more substantial way through ultimately sponsorship and media rights and potentially even hosting the Olympics.
10:49James Emmett:Don't have a media rights deal yet, do they?
10:51David Cushnan:Don't have a media rights deal at the moment. The other way to look at it is paired with a International Cricket Council that is spending a lot of time and effort and resource to be able to try and develop more nations around the world as cricket playing nations, you can see how Olympic participation, presence on the Olympic program could be a real supercharger of that in a way that perhaps golf hasn't, you could argue, taken full advantage of a place on the Olympic program. So, again, another fascinating element in the long term to see whether Olympic participation is something that really helps drive the ICC's mission forward, because they will be thinking about that, I would suggest, as much as what it will do to further enhance the game in India, where it doesn't need much help.
11:45David Cushnan:Absolutely.
11:46James Emmett:Yeah, we talked a little bit about unbundling as well. I mean, this was sort of sparked by a conversation that Anurag was having on stage, sort of trying to, I mean, it's the classic women's sport question, you know, what is the true value of women's rights? And I feel like the ICC and the National Federation is underneath it. It's one of the more forward thinking sports, I think, in terms of the development of the women's game. And I was actually surprised to discover that ANURAG and the ICC hasn't fully unbundled its rights, sort of in the process of doing that.
12:22David Cushnan:And he flagged Google as an example of where women's cricket has been the gateway to a more bundled deal between Google and the ICC. So in September last year, Google came aboard as a partner of the ICC's women's tournaments. And then in February this year, just in time for the men's T20 World Cup, Google partnered up via Gemini with the ICC on the men's side. We're obviously talking just over a week out from the start of the Women's T20 World Cup here in England, which has, as I said in the newsletter last week, a tricky challenge in that it's going up against the FIFA Men's World Cup, which is a challenge for any sport.
13:04David Cushnan:And I think over the next few weeks, we'll just see how much oxygen the World Cup takes out of the sports industry atmosphere. But this is a tournament that has, we hear, record ticket sales so far. And there's a lot of really interesting work going on between the ICC, the ECB as the local organiser, and actually Sky Sports, who are the domestic broadcaster in the UK for the tournament. The latest wheeze. Did you see this, James? and I know you will have done because I know you're a fan of musical theatre is that Wicked, the cast of Wicked are going to be performing at the opening game of the tournament in a partnership that has been brokered by Sky as the broadcaster.
13:46David Cushnan:They're going to be performing. They're going to be performing hits from the show to celebrate the 20th anniversary of Wicked but as a way of potentially bringing in a new audience to women's cricket which is, you know, left field good old-fashioned left field alternative thinking I would suggest. Well, we're going to talk about that kind of thing a bit later, aren't we? We certainly are. We certainly are.
Read the full transcript
14:06James Emmett:Right. Shall we move away from cricket to the world of things that have happened recently?
14:10David Cushnan:Yes. Shall we run you through a couple of notable sponsorships signed over the last week or so? This one from last week, Gucci has been confirmed as the new title sponsor of the Alpine F1 team from 2027. The deal is believed to be worth between 50 and 60 million dollars per year at CAA Brand Consulting very much involved in brokering this partnership. Alibaba Group and UEFA are bringing the Chinese giants 360 degree replay technology to football. They've signed an exclusive six-year deal covering several major tournaments, including the Champions League and Euro 2028. And back to cricket, London headquartered global payments firm Sokin is the new front of shirt sponsor for the men's and women's MI London teams.
15:00David Cushnan:MI London is the new name for the English 100 team that plays at the Oval, formerly known as the Oval Invincibles. Reliance, owner of the Mumbai Indians, acquired 49 % of the franchise in last year's 100 auction.
15:14James Emmett:The NHL has made an extensive round of changes to its top leadership with Sean Eggert hired as CMO and Julie Yeffer hired as MD of International. Heidi Browning switches from the CMO role to a new role as Chief Digital Officer. Former MBA and MotoGP executive Dan Rossamondo has joined Sport5 in a new strategic role covering the agency's North American business. Dan Rossamondo, one of the funniest men in senior leadership in sport and the most well-travelled after his MotoGP job. Andrew Abdo is the new CEO of Tennis Australia, succeeding Craig Tiley. He leaves his role as CEO of Australia's NRL.
15:54James Emmett:NRL chair Peter Vlandis will step into an executive role on an interim basis while a permanent successor is sought.
16:01David Cushnan:Interesting note about former Red Bull Racing team principal Christian Horner. He has joined Oakley Capital as an advisor on investments in premium sports. Ronu Meir is the new general counsel at Whisper, while Chris Hatton has joined the organisation as strategic sales director for the EMEA region. And Ben Elshaw has joined podcast company The Overlap as managing director. So congratulations to one and all. Yeah, Whisper hiring a lot of people at the moment, aren't they? They are. They're on a tear. They're on a tear. HR department busy, I would say. Indeed. A quick break. If you're a future leader in sport, this is for you.
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17:17David Cushnan:James, you have been keeping your eye no doubt on the flurry of end of season European football finals that we have experienced over the last couple of weeks or so. Paris Saint-Germain, Champions League winners for a second successive season back to back. Aston Villa winning the Europa League. Crystal Palace taking the Conference League. And I know you wanted to talk about where we stand, where European football stands. Give us your end of season report as we're just a week out from the World Cup, of course.
17:50James Emmett:Well, I wanted to talk a little bit about Arsenal, David, because I support that football team, as do, it turns out, millions of other people. 1.5 million Londoners. It's been absolutely extraordinary. As an Arsenal fan, I have found this, at Arsenal, of course, Premier League winners and Champions League runners-up. As a fan, I found this season to be completely agonising. It could have ended up as Arsenal's most successful season ever, but it felt largely toe-curling all the way through. And to get over the line and to win the Premier League after 22 years, clearly there's been this outburst of emotion.
18:27James Emmett:And we are now, of course, in the digital era where we weren't the last time that Arsenal won the Premier League. But honestly, it's been absolutely extraordinary seeing the depth and breadth of the support for that team, not just in London, but around the world, like very visually evident. and it's obviously fantastic to witness as an Arsenal fan, but it's hard not to be struck by the visual diversity of the fan base. So people from all across the world coming together to do the same thing, celebrate, buy shirts, etc. And for some time, Arsenal's sort of been positioning itself, as a lot of teams have been trying to, as sort of at the center point between sports, entertainment, lifestyle, and culture.
19:20James Emmett:And for me, this has been the first time where a lot of those things have come together to manifest themselves as visibly organically true. To see such a broad range of people that you wouldn't necessarily normally associate with football fandom, with sort of stadium-going spectators sort of taking to the streets and coming together in one big community, passionate celebration. It's been really great to see and must be such a boost for all the Arsenal people involved, but specifically the commercial and marketing folks and the owners who've been strategically trying to come to this position, obviously on the pitch, you know, in terms of football success, but in terms of that brand positioning as well, they must be delighted with what they've been able to achieve the likes of Richard Garlick, Juliet, Slott, etc.
20:12James Emmett:And it's interesting that they would lose the Champions League final to Paris Saint-Germain, another team that has been doing the very same thing in terms of positioning itself as a sort of culturally relevant brand. I would say slight differences between the positioning. I feel like PSG are maybe trying to position themselves a little bit more Paris, a little bit more luxury brand type of thing. It's not my vibe, David, but it is a vibe. And I would say watching the Arsenal parade that they did on Sunday here in London, Josh Kroenke, who is sort of the designated owner, he's the owner's son, but he may as well be the owner, really joining in with the celebrations, wearing a T-shirt of a meme of William Saliba and Gabriel Magalais, the Arsenal centre-backs, and really going for it, no doubt endearing himself to many Arsenal fans along the process.
21:02James Emmett:But Cronky Sports Entertainment, the holding company that Arsenal sits within, arguably the most successful under-the-radar multi-club ownership entity in all of sport. Now, there's not lots of football clubs in that MCO, so you wouldn't necessarily talk about it as an MCO in the same way as Chelsea, for example. But the franchises, the teams that Cronky Sports Entertainment owns have now had an extraordinary run of success back to back in a kind of global way. So you've got the LA Rams, obviously sort of relatively newly installed in a city and in an amazing pioneering stadium who won the Super Bowl in 2021 slash 22.
21:46James Emmett:The Denver Nuggets, you know, a smaller market team who won the NBA title for the first time in their history in 2023 and now Arsenal winning the Premier League title in 2026. Whatever's happening at KSE, you've got to say that they've got the right formula.
22:03David Cushnan:Yeah. And at a commercial level, they created Cronky signature properties last year to sort of loop together the classic sort of sharing of resources, being able to sell across.
22:14James Emmett:Although I don't know what they've sold there. Yeah. Ball Corporation is the one that I can think of, which is across certainly the Rams and Arsenal. But yeah, they've had this overarching commercial entity for a year or so now.
22:25David Cushnan:And you can imagine there are, we hear, plans being hatched to think about how to expand the Emirates Stadium here in London. You can imagine there is know-how coming across from what they have done with SoFi Stadium, obviously, is a completely new build. But that stadium, yes, the NFL, yes, incredible concerts, but it's going to be an LA 28 venue. It's a World Cup venue. It's really making a claim to be the place where the US men's national team in particular call home and the biggest soccer matches, international soccer matches played in the US being played regularly there. So there's clearly a plan, which very often with these multi-club schemes, whether they're in one sport or across several sports, don't seem to have.
23:14David Cushnan:There's clearly a strategy. And as you say, Josh Kroenke seems to be absolutely at the heart of it and diving right into the celebrations as well, but not, I would argue, in a way that overshadows the team itself, the players, the management who have actually made it happen.
23:30James Emmett:A few other interesting tidbits from the top of the tables across Europe. So here in England, all sorts of different clubs qualifying for European competition, which of course is a big mark of success and also a gateway to more funding next year. Bournemouth and Sunderland both qualifying for the Europa League and Sunderland definitely not up for sale, in inverted commas, as the CEO Tom Burwell was telling me a few weeks ago. But that's an extraordinary story, Sunderland. That's absolutely incredible. And credit to BIA, BIA Sports Group, which is the vehicle underneath the ownership group. It's Louis Dreyfus family, isn't it?
24:13David Cushnan:Yeah. And to David Bruce, who stepped away, who you had on the podcast a few months ago, but has in recent times stepped away and moved into, I was arguing altogether, a more challenging role at Sheffield Wednesday.
24:24James Emmett:Yeah. And it's interesting how that came about because I had this chat with Tom Burwell at the launch of the Ultimate Sevens, the Rugby Sevens competition not too long ago. and this was before Sunderland had qualified for the Europa League, but we were talking about David Bruce and why he left. And Tom is effectively the Sunderland interim CEO at the moment. And it's very circumspect and careful with how he talked about David Bruce leaving, said he'd done a fantastic job and they'd parted on good terms and only positive things. But I definitely got the impression that as much as Tom was saying Sunderland is definitely not up for sale, I feel Well, like effectively any club is really up for sale as long as the number's right.
25:03James Emmett:And I would not be surprised to see that club changing hands quite soon. Apparently there's a dossier going around in the financial circles on that one.
25:13David Cushnan:Can we just talk for a moment about Bournemouth? Because that's another extraordinary story and plans afoot to... The daily vehicle. To expand the Vitality Stadium, which is a tiny stadium in Premier League terms. But Bill Foley is somebody who is enjoying great success with Bournemouth in the Premier League, but also the Las Vegas Golden Knights back in the NHL finals for the third time in the very short history of that franchise. So, again, in a not dissimilar way to the Cronky project, Black Knight Sports and Entertainment going great guns at the moment.
25:48James Emmett:Real Betis in La Liga, back in the Champions League 20 years after their last appearance and alongside the breakdown in the sale of Seville, their city rivals. Lille, second in Ligue 1 and qualifying for the Champions League. They're quietly owned by quite a large investment group in Luxembourg, also a potential sale incoming there. And Como in Serie A. Yeah. Europe's Glamour Club. Yeah, Europe's Glamour Club, qualifying for the Champions League, I think finishing fifth in Syria and qualifying for the final spot from that league in the Champions League. Well, I think this is their first year in Syria that they've just played, but they're owned by Indonesian tobacco conglomerate, the Jarum Group.
26:35James Emmett:I met the president of the Como football team at the IMG summit last year, a chap who he does have a surname, but he insisted Ronaldo style that he just had one name, which is Mia Wan. It's like you, isn't it? Who? You. You. You always, you know, yeah. Just James. No, I-I-A-K-A as James Emmett. But a really interesting story, this. Obviously, a very colorful character as president. He's also a very funny man, talking about Dan Rosamondo earlier. Seth Fabregas, the coach, is a co-owner in the team. They managed to build this slightly unusual model, a very glamorous location, obviously in the lakes in Italy, We're talking about Arsenal and Paris Saint-Germain as very consciously cultural entities.
27:24James Emmett:Como also has been positioned from the outset of this kind of era and this ownership group's tenure as a lifestyle brand. They've got all sorts of fashion collaborations going on. And yes, there is a strong whiff of glamour and nice merch, at least, about this organisation.
27:43David Cushnan:Just to deftly correct you, they actually finished fourth in Serie A and this is their second season in the top flight. Two errors. Yeah. Just two. But I did it deftly. I've been looking at the other end of some of Europe's top leagues, James.
27:57James Emmett:Well, there's a good segue to a newcomer to Serie A. Go on. Or Venezia.
28:02David Cushnan:Oh, yeah, Venezia. Yeah. So Tim Laiwiki, formerly of Oakview Group.
28:07James Emmett:And AEG before then.
28:08David Cushnan:A well-known figure in the US in particular, but in and around sports industry circles, is back on the scene and has invested with his daughter, I believe, in Venezia, who have just been promoted into Syriac. And I know that the folks at Syriac will absolutely love the idea of having such a destination city, again, represented in the top flight, if you consider their Made in Italy project where they really want to show off and showcase Italy in all its glory. So a big tick as far as the league is concerned there.
28:44James Emmett:Also Lifestyle Brand, they were the originators of this sort of football shirt as fashion, a sort of high fashion runway model style thing a few years ago.
28:55David Cushnan:Yeah, a couple of familiar names back in Spain and Germany next season in the top flights. So Racing Santander and Deportivo La Coruña, both back in La Liga. Racing back after 14 years away. Deportivo, who were once right in the thick of, I don't think they ever got to a Champions League final, but they got very close back after eight years away. Schalke back in the Bundesliga next season, after a season in the second tier. And in the Premier League, in fairly remarkable circumstances, notably the disqualification of Southampton from the playoffs, but Hull eventually came through quite a chaotic playoffs, championship playoff this year.
29:37David Cushnan:Asun Ilikali, the Turkish media and entertainment mogul who bought Interhal in 2022, has taken them all the way to the Premier League, where they will be, I suspect, favourites to come straight back down again. But I think that makes him the first Turkish owner of a Premier League club. Maybe. Discuss. Answers on a postcard. But notable nonetheless. Oh, and actually, sorry, Liga is really interesting. A couple of the promoted teams for next season. So Troyes, who are one of the City Football Group, talking of multi-club ownership, City Football Group properties are into Ligue 1. So more top flight involvement for CFG.
30:20David Cushnan:And Le Mans have also been promoted. And this is the club that is owned by a gaggle of notable people, including minority owners Novak Djokovic, former F1 drivers Felipe Massa and Kevin Magnusson, and Georgios Frangoulis, who is the founder of the Oakberry Food Company and is the fiancé, I believe, of Irina Sabalenka, the world number one women's tennis player. So yeah, a couple of interesting ownerships back in the French top flight from next season. He proposed the other day, didn't he, Dave? He did, yeah. I don't think she was that pleased with the proposal. I think she'd been expecting it for a while.
31:02James Emmett:Yes, I don't think she didn't think she was looking her best, I think. I mean, I'm getting this all from Instagram. I don't know them or their friends.
31:11David Cushnan:By the way, talking of tennis, as I think we were on it, the French Open is turning into one of the most chaotic... What's happening? Well, on the men's side, virtually all of the seeds are out. Is Zverev out? Zverev is still in and should go on to win. Very much the favourite now. But there's Raphael Hodard. you've got Jao Fonseca two 19 year old hotshots who are right in the frame and it's anybody's tournament to be honest a remarkable series of events that have seen Novak Djokovic go out, Yannick Sinner remarkably go out and of course Carlos Alcaraz injured and out of Wimbledon unfortunately out of the grass court season as well I love Roland Garros, what a property what a property.
31:53James Emmett:David you had a beef didn't you? You wanted to air a grievance on the podcast about music, was it?
31:58David Cushnan:Well, you, James, were watching the Champions League final as an Arsenal fan. I was watching the Champions League final as a sports business fan. And look, I like the Killers as much as the next person. And actually, they're probably the least worst band for this sort of gig.
32:14James Emmett:I'm surprised by how many hits they had.
32:16David Cushnan:Well, they sort of played a weird eight or nine minute montage of, I think, three or four of their hits over the years. But, you know, not a bad booking sure but this idea of football and we're going to see it again infamously in the world cup final of uh trying to do a pre-game or a half-time music extravaganza just does not work in the sport of football okay and i think there has been fifa and uefa on this quest to replicate the super bowl the pepsi i think it was who was sponsoring the kickoff show it's not a good experience for anybody in the stadium. There's nobody in the stadium who is, you know, it's a bonus to have the Killers playing a few songs, possibly before kickoff, 15 minutes before kickoff.
33:00David Cushnan:Nobody's buying a ticket to the Champions League final because the Killers are playing. As a broadcast product, it's not a good product. I don't know what was going on with the sound. It didn't come across very well on TV, I didn't think. So why are they persisting in trying to put music acts on in very small windows of time inside a football stadium where everybody in that stadium wants to just get on with creating an atmosphere, having a great time and doing their own singing, frankly, especially in a sport where you've got tribalism. You've got two fantastic sets of fans there, Arsenal PSG fans making a racket, having a great time.
33:36David Cushnan:It interrupts all of that. Why not do these concerts in another location in Budapest in a fan zone? It could be running at the same time. It could be combined with an enormous watch along for those, the thousands of people who we know went to Budapest, but didn't have a ticket. You're creating another revenue stream, you're potentially creating another touchpoint with a new audience or an audience that isn't that interested in football, but you can sort of build into your overall package for partners. I just don't understand why they're continuing to try and replicate something in the Super Bowl that cannot be replicated.
34:09James Emmett:Interesting view, David. And I would say, so my experience of it, I was in a pub and I could not hear the sound from the TV because 90 % of the pub were just belting out the... Mr. Brightside. They seem to know every single song, which was extraordinary. I was in the killer's pub in Hove. One of the designated killer's pubs, yeah. So from my vantage point, it did quite well at stoking up a bit of atmosphere. But as you say, TV product, not in venue product. I would say, you're right every kind of sports property is attempting to replicate the success of the super bowl halftime show but is the super bowl halftime show a product for the in stadium fan
34:56David Cushnan:probably not ultimately if you're designing it from scratch again but the super bowl halftime show has reached a level of it's iconic cultural currency that allows it to work and actually what the the giving the artist or artists freedom to do whatever they are within whatever it is the 14-minute window they've got, create something interesting. I don't even think you're getting that with, you're just plonking an artist into a football stadium. I sort of agree with you. There's no fantastic stage.
35:25James Emmett:Of course, in order to replicate the success of the halftime show, you have to be much more creative with the show element of what you do. But I do think you've got to start somewhere. And it's notoriously difficult to mix one art or performance form with another. Yeah.
35:42David Cushnan:So don't do it. Put them in two different locations in the city. You've got the stadium in Budapest for all the fans and the football. And you're creating an opportunity for even an alternative broadcast, if you want, of a proper gig for music fans who are probably more casual football fans. and you have a bunch of artists or a mini festival or whatever going on in parallel, broadcast can dip between the two. I think that would work much better and create a further revenue opportunity for UEFA and FIFA because nobody, apart from the people in your killer's pub, are getting the full benefit out of the current setup.
36:23James Emmett:I would argue that you've got to start somewhere with these things. And you, from a purely cynical commercial and marketing standpoint, what you're doing by introducing another element into the whole show is adding storytelling strands, theoretically appealing to different audiences. As you've said, you're opening up other sponsorship opportunities. You're giving Pepsi a big bit of inventory that they can hang a lot of their messaging on, which they have done, you know, their cringeworthy ads in the lead up to the Champions League final. I'm with you on the show needs to be a lot better in order to come anywhere close to being, you know, having the same impact as a Super Bowl halftime show.
37:06James Emmett:The concept of having a concert in a fan park or somewhere outside of the venue, that may well be much better for those in-venue audiences, that won't be a TV product. It's going to be really hard for a TV viewer to associate a gig that keeps being cut to that is not in the stadium and the stadium sort of in the build-up to the game. That association isn't there, I don't think.
37:33David Cushnan:I mean, look, maybe, maybe, but I still think it's not working as is. And this idea of, you know, everybody talking about, oh, yeah, we're going to make it like the Super Bowl. Let's see. Let's see what happens in the coming weeks. There's a huge amount of music programming going into the World Cup, whether it's opening matches in each of the three cities. And a longer period than 15 minutes allotted to the halftime show and the final. It's still all going to take place in stadiums. I'm not sure that's the optimum solution. No, indeed. Should we agree to disagree and just move on amicably? Let's do that.
38:06Let's do that. And let's return next week.
38:09David Cushnan:When, James? Next week, the World Cup starts.
38:11James Emmett:Oh, already? Goodness me. I've got to organise a sweepstack, I think. All right.
38:15David Cushnan:Goodbye. Cheerio.
From the publisher
In the red afterglow of Arsenal’s Premier League title win and celebratory parade in North London, James Emmett and David Cushnan shine a light on Josh Kroenke’s role in the multi-club, cross-sport success story that is Kroenke Sports and Entertainment.
They also reflect on the winners elsewhere across Europe as the club football season ends.
Also on the show, reflections on James’ conversation with International Cricket Council Chief Commercial Officer Anurag Dahiya and the development engine the organisation is revving up in new markets. And, after the Killers at the Uefa Champions League final in Budapest, there’s a discussion about a possible new way forward for pre-match and half-time music shows at football’s showpiece occasions.