Mark Darbon: the R&A CEO navigating golf’s disrupted ecosystem

0:04David Cushnan:Hello and welcome to another episode of Leaders Worth Knowing, the sports industry podcast from Leaders, where we talk to the people worth knowing in the business of sport this week. I'm David Cushnan. I'm the content director round here at Leaders. On the show today, it's a chat I recorded earlier this week with Mark Darbon, the CEO of the RNA. Mark was up in St Andrews where the organisation is based. And it's a fascinating organisation with a mission to grow the game of golf around the world. It's one of the governing bodies of golf alongside the US Golf Association, developing and honing the rulebook, the guardian of a single code for the rules, equipment standards, amateur status of the sport of golf.

0:51David Cushnan:And the RNA is also the organiser of the Open Championship, one of golf's four men's majors, of course, as well as the Women's British Open, a host of other events as well at all levels of the game around the world. We dig into all of that in the conversation, plus how the RNA is funded, where that money goes, technology and innovation at the Open Championship, the relationship between the RNA and golf's other major organisers, including, of course, Augusta National and the Masters, the women's game and how it can be further developed, the relationship between professional golf and the amateur participation side of the sport, and of course, the wider professional golf landscape right now, amid a swirl of speculation about Live Golf's future, changes coming at the PGA Tour under Brian Rolap's new leadership, and the dynamics of the relationships between tours around the world more generally.

1:44David Cushnan:Mark has a really good perspective on all of this. He is relatively new to the game of golf in an executive sense. He became CEO at the R &A around 18 months ago after several years running English rugby union team, Northampton Saints. So he's got a really broad and valuable perspective, I think, on the sports industry and some of the disruption and change that it faces. We also talk a little about leadership styles, about what brands get when they buy into the R &A and what Mark and his team look for when they work with agencies and third-party suppliers. So I think you'll enjoy it plenty in here.

2:20David Cushnan:Let's tee off now with Mark Darbin, the CEO of the RNA. Mark Darbin, the CEO of the RNA is on the line. Mark, very good to see you. And I'm assuming you're in St Andrews. So what is the scene in what might be the world of sports most picturesque office? Yeah, it's not a bad spot here. Nice to see you. I am looking out over the first and 18th holes of the old course. So it sort of gets you every time you come into this office, actually a pretty special place to work and privileged to be here. Fabulous. And for those who can't see, you've got a couple of very interesting pieces of silverware just sitting behind you.

2:59David Cushnan:I think I recognise them. Yeah, indeed. I've got the claret jug behind me and our AIG Women's Open trophy. Obviously, the two pinnacle events that we stage in our portfolio of championships. And I guess a timely comment on them as we look ahead to championship season this summer. Yes, we're going to get into all of that. Maybe let's start, Mark, with the RNA itself and actually your role leading it. Just give an idea to everyone of what the remit of the organisation is, because it serves several purposes. Yeah, I guess we're a somewhat unique organisation. The origins of the RNA can be traced back to 1754 and the formation of the Royal and Ancient Golf Club of St.

3:42Andrews, a unique golf club in many ways here at the Home of Golf in Scotland, a golf course-less golf club. So one of the misconceptions about the RNA is that we own and operate the old course here in St. Andrews and the other brilliant links courses that I look out on. We don't. Those courses are owned by the town and run and managed by a trust and the members of our golf club have

4:06David Cushnan:access to them, but we don't control them. And I think it's important to understand that history because our role in golf has evolved over the years. I think it was in the 1800s that the Royal and Ancient Golf Club of St. Andrews was asked to codify the rules of golf. And in many ways, that signified the start of our journey as one of the global governing bodies within our sport. But the modern organization has evolved dramatically. So we're now really club and group, two separate but related organizations. And I guess the easiest way to describe what the RNA group does is to refer to our new strategy.

4:42We see our role and remit as being here to open golf to the world. We believe in this brilliant sport. Golf's in our DNA. We want more people playing and engaging in golf in more places all around the world more frequently. We believe in the wonderful benefits that flow from golf to individuals and to communities. And through our role and remit in the sport, we think we're uniquely placed to capitalize on the momentum that golf has right now. Specifically, I guess, we focus in three main areas. We try to unite the sport through our role in governing the game. We try to inspire millions of people to engage in the sport through staging world-class championships.

5:25We've already touched on the Open and the Women's Open, but we stage a broad portfolio of championships all around the world. And then we play a leadership role to try and shape golf's future in partnership with national federations and other bodies around the world. And that means investing into initiatives that drive participation and sustainability within our sport. So three broad areas of focus that stem from our unique role as custodians of the game of golf.

5:52David Cushnan:There's a lot in that and we'll try and unpack some of it as we go through the conversation. But in terms of your role then heading up the organisation, where and how are you spending your time and how are you looking to prioritise? And I suppose, classic question, what does the average week look like for you? I spend the vast majority of my time on group activities. And a lot of how I spend my time flows from the nature of our model. So essentially, we generate the bulk of our revenue and pretty much all of our profit from one event, the Open Championship. About 80 % of our revenue flows from that one event.

6:31And then we reinvest all of the profit back into the game. It's the profit from the Open Championship that funds our activities in governance. So that's setting and orchestrating the rules of golf, overseeing equipment standards in the sport, a role in shaping the world handicap system that's so unique to this game. Leveraging the history and tradition of our sport, but being flexible and progressive to ensure that our governance model means golf is a game for all. And the profit that flows from the open also underpins then our golf development activities, that point around leading to shape golf's future in a positive fashion.

7:09So we partner with nearly 170 national federations and other organizations around the world to drive initiatives that are focused on getting more people playing this sport. So we're very focused on initiatives to drive participation amongst underrepresented groups, particularly women and juniors. We invest into programs that ensure there's a sustainable future for golf courses, given the focus on environmental sustainability across the sports industry and more broadly. We're investing into technology to future-proof and enhance the sport. We work with federations to drive high-performance programs, to put the pathway that exists across the game.

7:48And then also, because the Open is our commercial driver, we can use some of those proceeds to stage other events. So whilst the Open generates a really healthy profit for us, the Women's Open is an investment into our sport at the moment. We think it's a critical one. And on top of that, we stage 20 plus amateur events. So events that sit at the top of the tree in the elite amateur game. Of note, I would say in that space are our continental championships. So the Asia-Pacific amateur, the Latin American amateur, the African amateur, both the males and females. Those events are really the pinnacle of the amateur game in those territories and create a strong pathway to professional golf thereafter.

8:27So a lot of my time is spent thinking about how we enhance the role of the open plays to underpin our wider model. And then in particular, on the relationship side, given that breadth of activity that I've just described, we have a pretty complex stakeholder web that spans a significant geographic mix of markets. And so a lot of my time, as I say, is spent on the relationship side too.

8:50David Cushnan:We're talking, and I hate to remind you of this, Mark, but I think we're 85 or 86 days away from the first round of the Open Championship. Royal Birkdale this year, of course, the championship moves around the country on a rotor system. 85, 86 days out. What's keeping you up at night at the moment? Tell us, is everything on track for this year? Everything is on track, on time, is on budget. I started my journey in sport working on the Olympics in 2012 in London. And so that on time, on budget, thought process is seared into my mind, I guess. No, we're in a good place, actually. Really excited for the championship season that lies ahead.

9:28I mean, for the Open, Birkdale is a wonderful venue. It's a great golf course. I think it staged the Open, you know, on 10 previous occasions. Tends to produce brilliant winners. We've had Arnold Palmer, Peter Thompson, Lee Trevino. Tom Watson all win there. There's some changes that have been made to the golf course since we were last there when Jordan Spieth won. So a new hole and some significant redesigns on a couple of the other holes, new practice ground. And so look, in general, I would say I'm optimistic and excited rather than being kept up at night. I think the nature of what we do in terms of the venues to which we take the Open Championship means there are always some unique challenges.

10:06You know, we operate at greenfield sites. We pop up a venue, often in challenging locations, on challenging terrain. And in doing so, we try to deliver an experience that compares favorably with fixed venues, given that the client groups are similar. We're trying to design a model that works for fans and broadcasters and media, obviously the athletes themselves. You know, compare and contrast, I guess, is a timely example of what we do versus what plays out at Augusta National for the Masters. You know, fixed venue versus a rotation, greenfield site versus permanent infrastructure. But we're proud of that differentiation and think we do a good job on that front.

10:45We're a sport that's open to the elements. You know, you want weather that challenges the players but doesn't ruin the spectator experience.

10:52David Cushnan:It's a very specific amount of rain that you're looking for and wind. Yeah, let me talk about the Open Championship being forged by nature. You know, the elements are a big part of what we produce. It's one of our points of differentiation. And so you definitely want some weather to roll in. But as I say, you don't want that to interrupt or interfere with the spectator experience that we're very proud of. And I think the final thing is that the nature of our sights. I mean, we always have some logistical challenges, like the last mile to our venues is often complicated. We're trying to secure a large site.

11:23At times we're in semi-remote locations. Actually, Birktale is better than most of our venues on that front, but can still be complicated. So we've got a great team and I'm excited for what's to come.

11:33David Cushnan:You mentioned the Masters. What do you make and what can you take from the Masters as an event, as a spectacle, bearing in mind the very different proposition that you have? How do you take in Masters week when you're looking at it through the lens of somebody who is effectively in charge of organising another major? So I'm just back from almost two weeks out there. In the same way that the Open is, the Masters is a bit of a melting pot for the industry. So it's a full on 10 days or so out there. Many of the stakeholders across the game gather in the same way that they will at Birkdale this summer.

12:05And you do get a really nice insight into that event. I grew up watching the majors in golf. So to have the chance to experience Augusta on the ground alongside the other events has been a real privilege in this role.

12:18David Cushnan:There's a lot of things I think they do really well. You know, they curate a great experience for the different stakeholder groups that they're looking to manage. Clearly, you know, things like the no phone policy get a lot of attention. I can tell you that's a nightmare when you're running from one meeting to another trying to locate people across the site. But I think it does lead to really strong engagement from, you know, in their terms, the patrons that are on the site watching. But I think it's the attention to detail that always stands out for me. You know, they have a lot of consistency in staff year on year.

12:48And that means they're well trained, they're well orchestrated. They greet you really effectively and personally with a personal touch. You know, when you arrive on site, they've got a couple of brilliant characters. There's a guy who's on the front gate as you drive in down Magnolia Lane, who just gives you such a warm welcome every day. And it makes you realize how important the people in volunteering and operational roles are to the success of these major championships. We spend months sweating on the details, but the first and often last touch point for most people that visit the site are with a volunteer.

13:23And so, again, how does that translate for us? We're very thankful to the volunteer pool that we have that bring the Open Championship to life. I think the other thing I'd say is that we have a really strong relationship with Augusta National. We do a lot of work with them on some of our championships and across the governance of the game and our other activities more broadly. And so there's a lot of knowledge sharing. And so whilst I would say our two propositions in many ways can't look and feel more different on the ground, there's a lot of similarity in the way that we approach our proposition and the experience that we're trying to deliver.

13:54And I'll give you one specific example. So a lot was made this year of the new player facility that Augusta National invested into. And it's a remarkable facility. But as they were shaping and designing that facility, they spent a lot of time with our team learning from what we've done with a pop-up facility at the Open Championship. We're consistently regarded by players and their support teams as delivering the best experience in golf throughout the course of the year in terms of the player experience during Open Championship Week, something we're very proud of. And you could see some of the things that Augusta have learned from us to influence their thinking.

14:30Now, their translation of that is into a permanent facility that they're able to construct and then evolve year after year. So different context, but lots of similarity in thought.

14:40David Cushnan:You touched on it there, but how closely do you think the organisers of the four major championships, so there's obviously the RNA, there's Augusta National, the USGA, US Golf Association, the PGA of America, each running these centrepiece events of the golfing year, how closely do you work together? And actually, where do you see the opportunities in future to maybe work more closely as a four? So we do work very closely together, actually on our championships, but more broadly too. So to give you a couple of examples, let's stick with Augusta National as one. Last year, we announced that we were aligning some of the pathways into our respective championships.

15:22So one of the things, again, that we've always prided ourselves on at the Open is having a really global field, identifying the world's best players, giving them roots in from various tours that exist around the world. And so we have a series of qualifying events. It makes up what's called the Open Qualifying Series, whereby people can qualify and earn a route in through a meritocratic basis into the Open Championship. And Augusta came to us and said, we really like what you're doing. We'd like to ensure that our field is global moving forward. Can we align some of the thinking on pathways into our events?

15:55And that was a partnership we embraced and we worked together to design a model that we believe will service in good stead moving forward. So there are lots of points of interaction. And that extends actually beyond just the majors, but to the elite tours too. We have a group that gets together pretty regularly. We call it a leadership group. It includes representatives from the majors, but also the PGA Tour and the DP World Tour and representatives from other bodies, elite events and other around the world. And so there's a lot of collaborative discussion. Do we agree on everything? Of course not.

16:27It would be unhealthy if we did, but I'd say there's good collaboration. And as we look ahead and you think about the majors, there are definitely opportunities for further collaborative behaviour. So from a media rights perspective, golf is pretty fragmented. You know, I think there's a question around whether there are opportunities for rights holders to work together appropriately to both enhance the proposition for the golf fan and quite frankly, drive economic value. There are other commercial opportunities that exist as well. There are certainly opportunities as it relates to data across the sport of golf.

17:00So I think there's lots of positive discussions underway, but the starting point is strong in that there's good, healthy debate amongst the key stakeholders across our sport.

17:09David Cushnan:You're somebody who has come into the sport fairly recently, actually as part of a bit of a new wave of leadership across golf in terms of some of those stakeholders that you mentioned. There's obviously a lot going on in golf at the moment. What is your overall health check on professional golf right now? Thinking about not just the majors, but you mentioned the tours, because it's quite a dynamic, fluid situation. Yeah, it is. I mean, you're right. There is a lot going on. And there's a lot going on, actually, at all levels of the sports. We should talk about the areas of our sport that are not just the elite professional area, too.

17:43But if we focus on that to begin with, yeah, I think my perspective here and the RNA perspective is that you don't find too many sports globally. that are healthy and consistently growing unless there's a strong shop window at the top of the game. And I think it's fair to say as well that golf shop window has seen some disruption in recent years. You know, as much as anything, I think the conversation has often been about cash rather than competition or the quality of courses, et cetera, et cetera. So there's clearly been some disruption. At the same time, if you look at the last 12 or 18 months, you have the audience across key elite professional golf properties has been really strong.

18:25You know, broadcast audiences are up for the PGA Tour. They're certainly up for the majors and the most significant other golf events around the world. And I think from an RNA perspective, our key thought is that golf is a global game. And so it's really in our interest to see strong, sustainable elite professional events taking place all around the world, supported by the world's best players. That's a natural perspective, I think, for us to have given our geographical remit within the sport. We also want to see really strong meritocratic pathways into those elite professional events. And I think we also continue to believe that the majors are the pinnacle of the sport.

19:07And so we, in our role, will continue to influence on the basis of all of those points. I think there is a lot going on at the moment. The PGA Tour, yes, it's been interesting for me. I've been in the role about 14 months, but I can no longer rely on that newbie tag because since I joined a new CEO at the PGA Tour, got O 'Neill coming in as CEO very shortly after me at Live Golf, a transition at the LPGA and more latterly the Ladies European Tour, change at the PGA of America. So there's lots of new faces around the table. And there's a lot going on. The PGA Tour are looking at their own strategy and their scheduling work.

19:46The DP World Tour are thinking about how their relationship with the PGA Tour may evolve. There's obviously a number of questions at the moment around their long-term model and what that looks like. I think from my perspective, we've got really good relationships with all of those key stakeholders. And as we've just said, I think there are opportunities for enhanced collaboration moving forward. We work with all of those stakeholders to create routes into our own championship. We've had to be flexible in recent years to offer places to live golfers and to create pathways that service a global game, not just the PGA Tour, which is primarily focused on the US.

20:23David Cushnan:And so I guess we're trying to influence the sport positively to ensure that it remains a global game that showcases the world's best to all markets. And we're also focused on controlling what we can control to make the Open as good as it can possibly be into the future. Just specifically on Live for a moment, There's obviously a swirl of speculation recently, and I think there are probably very few people who know the real situation. But you mentioned that probable need to look at new ways of funding live moving forward. I just wonder from an RNA point of view, in terms of that overall remit that you mentioned, how involved would you want to be in those conversations?

21:00David Cushnan:What kind of visibility would you like to see thinking about the broader mission of the RNA and the work you're doing around the world in terms of growing the game and ensuring it is sustainable, ensuring there is long-term planning? I think first and foremost, it's not our job, I guess, to shape the LIV funding model into the future. But we have a vested interest, given what I've just said, which is we'd like to see a strong global proposition for our sport. You know, we'll come on to this, I'm sure. But the game is booming all around the world. In almost every market, the sport is growing. You can see when the world's best players travel to certain markets, we've seen it with the Australian Open recently, we've seen it with the Live event in Australia and South Africa, when big name players turn up to markets which have quite frankly been underserved by elite professional golf in those markets.

21:54the crowds turn up there's interest you know there's engagement and that's a real positive and so we'd like to believe there is a model where there can be a strong global footprint for our sport moving forward and I don't think that's dependent on you know live being in existence or or not far from it we want a sustainable model and we have a direct role to play there so one of the things that drives strong events is when players know that there are routes into the major championships. And so you tend to see a spike in strength of field in markets or events around the world when we're offering places into the Open Championship through our Open Qualifying Series, or as I talked about earlier, the Masters are doing the same through our alignment and approach in that space.