Pull up a Chair: Richard Thompson on delivering memorable moments for prospects and clients

0:03David Cushnan:And welcome along to the Leaders Worth Knowing podcast, the sports industry show from leaders where we talk to the people worth knowing in sport. On the show today, we're talking big picture hospitality trends in the company of Richard Thompson. Richard has been at the heart of the sports and entertainment game for many years now. In 2013, he sold his talent agency Merlin Elite to MNC Saatchi, and he remains involved to this day as global chair of MNC Saatchi Sports and Entertainment. He was the long-time chair at Surrey County Cricket Club and is midway through a second term as chair of the England and Wales Cricket Board.

0:45David Cushnan:This conversation, though, centres on his most recent chair role, steering Levy UK and Ireland, the Compass Group-owned hospitality giant, and Liveira, the new umbrella brand set up by Levy to house brands including Keith Prowse, Gulliver's Sports Travels and the Iluka Collective. Richard brings all his experience from all angles of the industry to bear in this conversation, what he does to anticipate trends, what he's seeing in the hospitality experience market at the moment, and the evolving role of hospitality as a business tool. He's absolutely fascinating on that. This is the third and concluding episode of our series with Liveira discussing all of this.

1:29David Cushnan:Scroll back through the Leaders Worth Knowing feed for excellent conversations with Liveira CEO Charlie Buck and Felicity Shankar, the CEO at iLuca. But for now, here we go with the chair of Levy UK and Ireland, Richard Thompson. Richard Thompson is in the studio and it's a delight to see you, Richard, at the end, well, sort of near the end of a golden summer of British sport and, you know, sports hospitality, I guess. How are you doing? Absolutely. Yeah, no, it has. I mean, I think when the sun shines, it makes life a lot easier, despite the fact that probably the sun shone maybe a bit too bright at times and created some challenges brought on by a lack of water.

2:12But And this is an English summer like no other. So you probably look across that whole pantheon of great sporting events and not too many umbrellas are required. And people really did enjoy the weather and the opportunity to be outside without worrying about what might happen.

2:27David Cushnan:When does an umbrella become a parasol, I guess, is the question we don't need to get bogged down in. I think it definitely did happen a lot this year. Yeah, indeed. And throw a World Cup in as well. There's been a lot going on and we're going to talk a little bit about, as a follow-up to the conversations that we've had with Charlie and Felicity from your team at Live Era, trends in sports hospitality, what you're seeing. And I suppose some of the experience that you're bringing to bear in your role as chair of Levy UK and Ireland, but also working within the Liveera group, as we have learned, which has sort of come together as this umbrella organisation for a number of brands in the group.

3:11David Cushnan:Tell us a little bit about your role as chair, how you see it, and I suppose how you define it. both Levy UK and Liveira are very significant businesses and from the perspective that Liveira you know might be a startup it is actually a very well established amalgamation of existing Levy businesses that are coming under that one umbrella it requires oversight bearing in mind that we are part of a very significant 50 billion dollar PLC and compass and both businesses are required to ensure that they are led in the right way, that there is good structures and processes in place, good succession planning, a good sense of kind of what might be around the corner, all the things that you would expect a business that's got revenues in the hundreds of millions to have a chair.

4:10And my involvement in sport, entertainment, media enables me to chair those organizations with a degree of experience and understanding, both as a former client, as somebody that goes to probably is lucky enough to go to probably a number, if not all of the principal global sporting events. You're there to help that CEO, that board, fulfill its potential and enable it to achieve its goals and ambitions that they would have laid out within their business plan.

4:40David Cushnan:You've obviously chaired and continue to chair a number of organizations across sports and entertainment, as you say, M &C Saatchi, sports and entertainment, ECB. In this particular role, where you are chairing an organisation, as you say, with lots of businesses operating underneath it, are there specific challenges that you've encountered so far or specific differences in terms of the way that you observe and then guide and steer those organisations? Not really. I think when you do what we've done here with Liveira, Liveira is a really sensible, obvious thing to do. Sometimes when big organizations create change and create a new identity, they might be doing it for the sake of it, or they might be doing it because it kind of, it sounds good or looks good in a business plan.

5:27But this makes so much sense to the customer, to people internally, into making sure that we can come together and make the most of our reach of our muscle in this area and obviously listen to where the market's going what you should never be doing is kind of following a market but trying to lead a market by doing what we've done by bringing together a series of established brands that people are very familiar with we're trying to get ahead of the market to enable our offering and our proposition to reflect where the market's going rather than necessarily where the market is.

6:03David Cushnan:And tell us a little bit about the Levy part of your role and the Liveira part of your role. A lot of overlap, I would imagine, a lot of shared priorities, but possibly some distinction as well. Look, they're pretty much one of the same because Liveira reports directly into Levy. I chair both. Is it double the meetings, Richard? Not really, because we amalgamate a lot of those meetings and a lot of it. I mean, the great thing is when you're out and about as I am, you're meeting teams at various venues, you're meeting the leaders when you're in situ. So you can kind of double up a lot, which is what I do.

6:40So I can achieve a lot by going to one event by meeting the number of people that I would. But I think the reality is that the Levy business is an extraordinary business in scale and size. There's nothing quite like it in the UK. I think we all recognize, you probably better than anyone, is that sport's going through a real significant series of changes. And it's probably quite binary. If you're involved in sport, you're either being disrupted or you're the disruptor. I think it's kind of one or the other. We've taken a position where we want to be the disruptor and we want to work with rights holders, partners to enable them to navigate the changes and the scale that we've got, the understanding globally, internationally, domestically enables us to help our clients.

7:26So we're not perceived as the contract caterer. We are a business partner and we're embedded in an organization. So it's a far less transactional relationship.

7:36David Cushnan:And what does that look like in practice? Is that about stoking a shared culture of creativity and innovation, trying wherever possible to look at things with a blank sheet of paper approach? A lot of cliches in that question, but you tell me. Take Jockey Club as an example. That's an extraordinary deal. £100 million worth of investment. It's the second most watched sport in the country. We think it's got great untapped potential. From a hospitality perspective, when you have a day at the racing, you have a day. It's not 90 minutes or 80 minutes. You are with a client, a prospect, for a whole day.

8:18And that enables you to achieve far more in terms of building that relationship. and so the jockey club relationship is a strategic investment in the growth of racing and we want to help the jockey club grow grow their business grow participation um and allow them to become across a 12-month season bearing in mind you've got flat and you've got the jump season you know from Cheltenham to the Grand National to the Derby and everything in the middle um that's a unique combination of sporting opportunity where I feel we can bring to bear so much of our experience to elevate what somebody might experience at the races and help at the end of it.

8:59You know, you look back in, say, five years' time and it is in a sense of was the food better, was the drink better? That's sort of a given. But have we helped grow racing will be one of the key performance indicators over whether that relationship has developed.

9:14David Cushnan:And when you and the businesses are going in with that approach to rights holders like a jockey club or across all sorts of different sports and all sorts of types of organization. What's your general assessment of the market at the moment? Are you finding that rights holders are generally receptive to that kind of approach or is actually there's still a little bit in some quarters a bit of caution and not wanting to necessarily be seen as the disruptor or having a disruptor come and change you know what has been the standard over maybe decades i think yeah probably the word disruptor sounds a bit too dramatic but i mean it is the sense that there's so you're you know you're in racing what are you competing with you're competing with someone's attention at the end of the day they might not be race goers but they're deciding where they want to take clients where they want to spend their day you've got to give them more reason to come racing than do something else and that might be a day at the seaside you know, wandering around London looking at museums, it could be anything or from a perspective of a big corporate, you know are they going to take them to this event or that event and why choose racing so I think in that perspective we want I suppose the issue of premium is a really interesting one because we're seeing premium events become more and more premiumised So the important thing we need to do is to make sure the ones in the middle don't get left behind.

10:40Otherwise, it becomes all about the kind of the Blue Ribbon events, the Derby, the Grand National, Cheltenham. But what about the meeting at Haydock or what's happening in Kempton Park or at Sandown? And making sure that they're making the most of their broader inventory. So we're sweating every asset, not just the premium assets.

10:59David Cushnan:You've been somebody who has spent many years in, I hesitate to call you a veteran, Richard, but I might be forced. Please don't call me a veteran. I might be forced. No, please don't. Somebody who has seen a lot in various different roles across the sports and entertainment space. So I think a really good person to give a, you know, a top level, a helicopter view assessment of actually sports and entertainment, hospitality, and how you are seeing that changing, and maybe how you're seeing the definition of hospitality changing, maybe the definition of premium, as you say. What are some of those big, broad trends that you're seeing?

11:40David Cushnan:You talked about anticipating those trends earlier. On one side, you could talk about something quite technical, which are the GLPs. So the GLPs are the weight loss jams. So you're seeing people maybe not eating or drinking as much. So we are having to change certain ways that we put a menu together or consumption in general. And that at the moment is a small trend, but you can see that that's beginning to play out more. So in which case, you've got to make far more of other elements to make that event more memorable. So I think there's no question you want to be personalizing events as much as possible.

12:17So you're talking to a client about, you know, you have a generic approach to maybe how premium you can make something, but there are lots of small touches you can help to hyper-personalize something far more. Someone that works a lot of talent over the years, people want to get closer to the product, closer to the talent. They want to peep behind the curtain. They want more access. You know, tunnel clubs have become, you know, quite established parts of football now. but anything that enables a customer, a prospect to just get closer to the action, that feel like they're getting something that no one else is getting, that makes it more special, more memorable.

12:55And in that case, it's a conversation with whoever you're working with, the kind of what level of access can you give us? Because there isn't a ceiling. For instance, we're a very significant business in the US. We will see what plays out at the US Open, where a few hours before the final for the US Open at Flushing Meadow, you can go and play on that call with a former champion and then have lunch with them. And then there'd be your personal commentator. And then you go and meet the champions at the end of the match. So those things become more and more part and parcel of what you're offering.

13:30And then what you tend to find is that large organisations tend to start expecting these things. But it's for us to ensure that, you know, there are certain parts of sport that should remain sanctuosanct and untouchable. But it almost starts effectively when you go back to Netflix's first All or Nothing, where you get these access docs and you get the opportunity to really see what goes on in a dressing room. And then that creates a secondary expectation when you're going to an event thinking, I feel I've already been in that dressing room. So does that give me permission to get a bit closer again?

14:03And it sort of does, because it trickles down in that effect that people want more and more access to feel like they are experiencing more and more.

14:13David Cushnan:Just to build on a couple of things you said there, strikes me that field of play access is something that is continuing to be something that presumably, you know, people want and rights holders are having to increasingly think about. And there are obviously certain sports where that's appropriate and less appropriate. The other one that it made me think of was when you were talking about talent and you're somebody who has a long history of working with prominent individuals, you know, athletes, celebrity talent. And I wonder whether we are seeing this sort of general movement in the media world from institutions to individuals, you know, taking control of their own brand and being the sort of, you know, the forward-facing brand in and of their own right.

14:59David Cushnan:I wonder whether that's something you maybe see coming into the the hospitality space where actually it's it's it's athlete fronted hospitality offerings as opposed to the event or the league or the team and whether that's something that that you know you're either seeing already or is starting to be something that is coming on radar I think with any talent I mean you've got to make it authentic first and foremost so if you try and make something look like it's athlete fronted and it kind of isn't you've got to get the packaging right but what you do want to do is to have an athlete there that's really unprepared or a celebrity that's prepared to really be honest and and you know not just feel like they're turning up for the fee and they're looking at their watch and then they want to go they want to you know you as the consumer want to feel like they want to be there with you sharing their experiences so I think it's important if you do it because it's become a bit commoditized so when you start to use talent now you've got to use the right talent I think talent have got to do more are expected to do more and offer more offer either more insight or offer something around the event it could be pre-match it could be post-match it doesn't necessarily be at the match so there's different touch points with that talent but it's I think where talent do look after their own brand I mean look I mean I think one thing we're seeing now of every event, you can look at how Instagrammable anything and everything is.

16:26Wimbledon is a very good case in point where there are touch points around the whole event that work very well on Instagram. So you can go and show off that you've been at Wimbledon for the day, but you want to be standing next to Billie Jean King or talking to Tim Hennman. All of those things are all part of bedding in the experience and then being able to socialize that to your following. So, you know, I think social media has accelerated this need for hospitality to become more memorable with talent. And in many cases, that could be that interaction with the talent, which is the most memorable part of the event.

17:02David Cushnan:It's interesting because certain sports events, US Open would be one. I was reading a piece about it this week and we're recording in the first week of the US Open. the number of influencers that they have brought in, you know, deliberately to come and promote the event and amplify the event and reach new audiences and actually a little bit of pushback on that. So there is a bit of a balance to be struck, I guess, in terms of that professional social media stuff that you need versus, again, the sort of authenticity and the, I suppose, the general fan experience, whether that's in a hospitality area or not.

17:41CMOs need to be very, very cautious here in the sense that social media for it to be effective by the nature of what it is, is unfiltered. So if you're handing a camera and you're given permission to an influencer to wander around that venue and do things, and you've got no control over the edit or what they put out, you know, we live, cancel culture is still a big part of what plays out in social media, you've then got to be quite careful over the way they see the event rather than the way you want the event to be seen. So as much as you're trying to attract Gen Zs or attract a different audience, sometimes be careful on the way those things operate, where you might reach a new audience, but you're doing it in a way where you've got no control over that content or where that content goes or how people comment on that.

18:30So I think in certain events, it works well. I still you know take the masters I think that's the only event where you've got to hand your mobile in when you arrive and there's something pretty special about that so what it means you're in the moment you're living in the moment I know there are certain clubs I've got two teenage daughters where they hand their mobiles in a reception because they want you to go and enjoy the night they don't want you constantly distracted taking pictures of everything so I think these things you know i think it's not cyclical but i think there is a trend sometimes to overdo certain things where you can become too distracted and i think the masters is a fascinating example that they've stayed true to the quality and the integrity of the sport so phones aren't going off you're not constantly taking a picture of uh that particular drive or that shot you're actually

19:23David Cushnan:experiencing enjoying it for yourself would the masters make your top three personal most memorable hospitality experiences? Ashes has got to be the one. But I mean, I think in terms of events that have not commercialized, that have retained very much to themselves, probably Wimbledon and the Masters stand out as the two unique events that have retained a degree of integrity and a lack of commercialization that probably no other event is able to do. The British Open isn't far off that. But there is some certain magic about Augusta, which I think kind of conjures something up that I think probably anyone involved in sport, I'd say probably that's the number one thing on their bucket list.

20:09David Cushnan:Now, you're an agency man, Richard, at heart. I think you've spent many, many a year working and owning agencies. And I just wonder, doing what you do now at Liveira, whether you've noticed or observed changes in the way that agencies use hospitality or approach hospitality and whether that is something that has shifted over time. I think yes it has and I think they're looking to get more value and more bang for their buck from the day from the event which is why you're looking to try and personalize everything and elevate things so you're offering something more than you've ever offered before and I think the point is this is a very competitive space so with each year you go back to that same event you're expecting something a little bit more something a bit more heightened something dialled up a little bit more.

21:04So from that perspective, we're constantly looking to push that boundary to enable the fact that we are going to offer something more. But I mean, it is, there's no sense that you can premiumize a premium event, but you should always be contemplating, which we're doing is premiumizing events that aren't necessarily the open or Wimbledon is other events that you can still elevate and offer a far greater experience that makes it more memorable. and that's something you know you could say that you have hospitality at one level and general admittance another but in the states and what we're acting a lot on is something more around ga plus something that sits between the high-end hospitality ticket and a standard admittance ticket so something that is you're packaging in a little bit more it's not full-on hospitality but it's somewhere in the middle it's a bit like saying well look we're not just offering first class, business class, we're offering economy plus as well.

21:59We're offering other offerings for different budgets where you're finding that people that don't necessarily buy in hospitality, they might buy a GA plus grouping and take a group of staff along to that. And what we are seeing more of is probably more prospects going to events, more staff going to events. So this isn't just the domain of your best customer that you take along to a day at the rugby or wherever. You're also taking prospects and staff. 10 years ago, that would never have happened. Five years ago, I'm not sure it would. But I think post-COVID, that craving for live has happened more and more.

22:37And now you're thinking, okay, we need to come up with something for a budget to bring staff to or prospects to.

22:42David Cushnan:Craving for live. And I guess the craving for team building in a slightly more hybrid working world. Yeah. Hospitality as a business tool is obviously something that is talked of a lot. Everything from chairman's whim. I don't know about your personal experiences of chairman's whim, but the idea of relationship building, relationship nurturing, if you're lucky, doing a deal over a glass of champagne in a hospitality suite at some amazing sports event. That's the sort of illusion maybe that we hear about a lot or the stereotype. What's the reality? What have you experienced? And what are the sorts of environments that work particularly well in terms of hospitality areas, experiences, being this sort of crucible for business and, as you say, prospecting and client relationships?

23:36I think the whole world of hospitality and building relationships has never become more important than it is now. I mean, you could look at anyone's diary and say how much of that diary are virtual meetings and how much of them are in person. And you see at events play out that some people probably only meet face-to-face a handful of times a year. That never used to be the case. So what you don't want to be doing is having a business where your relationships are virtual, they're too transactional with your staff, but certainly with your clients. So the The only opportunity you might have in a year might be those two or three occasions that you're actually inviting someone along to an event.

24:15So taking away that kind of transactional nature of modern business where virtual meetings might be 50 % of the interactions, hospitality is way more important now than it's ever been. And it is that sense that you are building relationship. And most events, we're looking to try and create opportunities that might be two hours before the event rather than one hour or one hour after the event rather than a half an hour after the event to extend the day where you might be bringing more people on from the office that are you know not just that necessarily the account director but other people for them to meet as as part of that relationship building exercise but i think it is uh i've seen you know relationships that go from being um well realizing people have got far more in common people by people You know, people by people, people are buying something while you do it and you get to know somebody a lot better and that creates an emotional connection and that might embed that relationship between that supplier and that customer.

25:17David Cushnan:Where do you see the big growth opportunities then in this space with your Liveera hat on? We talked to Charlie and Felicity and Charlie was again talking about this general admission plus idea. here, are there markets? Are there particular sports? Are there types of experiences that you've got your eye on? And I suppose my question is, going back to your first answer, impossible question to answer. What are you trying to anticipate at the moment? We would try and anticipate the fact that you've got to make events must-haves. You want to create as much FOMO as you possibly can. So there are certain events that are always very, very popular and you want to make them even more popular and you want to premiumize them even more and you want to get the pricing absolutely right.

26:12But you need to ensure that every category of your offering is selling out and you're not just selling out the premium. I don't think there's a ceiling on premium, certainly in London. I think with overseas buyers coming in and where you've got certain absolute world-class events that sit above everything else. I think you can keep taking those further and further, more heightened, more premium, more memorable, investing more in those. But I think, you know, generally speaking now, we're seeing technology play a bigger part in this, frictionless entry. So when, you know, those touch points, when you enter a venue, you want them to be as smooth as they possibly can be.

26:54You're probably bringing in concierge, you might be cutting the travel element out so you're actually chauffeuring them to the event and taking them home you know what you might call the schlep factor you're trying to take that out because some people you know high-end CEOs and chairs might have three invitations to the same event and they've got to decide who they're going to go with well they want to go with the one that's actually going to say well they're going to take me they're going to pick me up they're going to take away all of that other hassle or they're going to invite my children or they're going to allow me to bring my partner.