What happens when you sell a Hundred franchise

0:03Hello and welcome to another episode of the leaders sport business podcast the podcast about leaders in sport from leaders in sport. My name is James Emmett. I'm the editorial director here at Leaders. I'm still a bit croaky and I'm with my good compadre, the content director at Leaders, David Cushman. David, how are you? I well, thank you, James. And may I say you're sounding a little brighter even than you did a few days ago. So yeah, good to have you back. Thanks. Yeah. Ready to go, Dave. Big week for us this week. Yes. I mean, big podcast coming up, but newsflash, we're doing an event. We are.

0:43We are going to be in the heart of central London over the next couple of days at Leaders Meet Innovation. It's Leaders Meet Co-Lop Innovation, isn't it? Yeah, it is. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that's how it appears. Okay. Leaders Meet Innovation. This is our private closed door forum for C-suite director level executives from across the world of global sport. we've got a fantastic participants list that we have put together and we are heavy on the chiefs it's heavy on the chiefs and we're bringing people together for a couple of days of discussion debate ideas sharing maybe a little bit of solution finding as well and as an opportunity to hear a range of perspectives from outside sport on the bigger broader global issues so think Think climate change, think geopolitics, think the rise of AI, think about the workforce of the future, think about how organizations are going through cultural transformations.

1:47Then there will be lots of great stuff on some slightly sport adjacent subject areas like the retail industry, the music industry, the wider technology space. We've got a fantastic variety of sessions planned. I think it's going to be a really stimulating couple of days. And we are going to be there and in the thick of it and sort of picking up what we can, despite the closed-up. It's Chatham House rules, isn't it? It is. So we're going to have to pick through that, aren't we? Yeah, we're going to give you a sense. Interpret our way around it. We're going to give you a sense of what's being talked about.

2:23Yeah. And we're going to… Maybe use air quotes rather than real quotes. But we're going to put that out in a podcast later in the week. Yeah, great. Live on tape. I'm looking forward to a couple of things I'm really hotly anticipating, David. Tell me. The Met Office, talking about their use of AI. I love weather and I love weather predictions and I'm becoming increasingly addicted to the weather. So looking forward to slaking my thirst for it there. Yeah, Kirsteen Dale, the chief AI officer at the Met Office, and she has the most amazing story of how the Met Office at PACE was forced into developing its own AI capabilities, hiring all sorts of different people, changing the skill sets or changing training for its employees because it got wind of the fact that the tech giants were starting to forecast the weather using AI.

3:22Yeah. I'm also really hoping that I'll be able to catch the conversation between Claire Cronin and the executive director of Waitrose. James Bailey. James Bailey, who I thought was a singer, but is actually the executive director of Waitrose. Retail, fascinating and fast paced, you know, selling a hothouse, basically. So really looking forward to sort of Claire picking through with James. All the latest from the high street, basically. Yeah, we're getting James in the small window that he has between the retail hotspots of Mother's Day and Easter weekend. Is Easter big? Yeah. Oh, yeah. He was, I would suggest, you know, even visibly stressed by the prospects of Easter.

4:13Have you seen what Waitrose are doing for Easter? No, go on. They've got this thing. Should I explain for international listeners that Waitrose is a, I would say an upmarket supermarket. They've got this thing. It's kind of like what Guinness have been doing this year with their all Guinness shortage. But Waitrose for some reason have got their own brand Easter egg, their top of the range Easter egg. And you've got to have an ID to buy it. You've got to bring in your own ID to buy it. As in you've got to be over 18? I don't know whether you have to be over 18, but you have to have a piece of identification.

4:48This isn't this Dubai chocolate craze that's sweeping everybody. No, I don't think so. I think that's something else. Yeah, good. Anyway, I think the point - The secret of that is pistachio, by the way. Pistachio. I think the point we're trying to make is Leaders Meet Innovation is going to be super. We're really looking forward to seeing everybody there. If you're listening to this and it's Monday, there is probably still time to take one of the very final spots in what will be a very exclusive room. Do you know what? Have a look at the website. It's invitation only, isn't it? But you can email a demand to be invited.

5:23Exactly. Right. Exactly. That's how it works. Yes. So we're looking forward to that one. Okay, David, something a little bit different on today's podcast. I was unable to join you last week in the sunshine when you went off to Lourdes to interview the chief executive of Lancashire County Cricket Club. I was unable to join you because of my voice, of course. Fascinating sort of landscape in cricket at the moment. Lancashire, one of the top tier English cricket teams and the sort of operators of one of the sides in the hundred that have just been bought. Tell us about what you and Daniel spoke about.

6:09Yeah, so Daniel is, as you say, has been CEO of Lancashire County Cricket Club for quite a while and Manchester Originals part of that. And that means he's been right in the thick of the process of selling off a stake in the Manchester Originals. And you'll remember this is the long process that has been going on that has been just recently concluded where the ECB has sold stakes in 800 teams. An incredible result at the end of it. Eight teams in the hundred. Yes, which led to a total valuation of£975 million for the eight franchises. The Manchester Originals were sold in a slightly different way to some of the other teams in the 100 in that Lancashire have given over a controlling stake.

7:05So over and above the 49 % stake that the ECB was selling, Lancashire County Cricket Club has effectively given over 70 % ownership to its new partners. RPSG Group, the owners of the Lucknow Supergiants and the Durban Supergiants. So IPL know-how coming in. So this is an Indian industrialist group, right? Yes. It's one of those Indian conglomerates that does all sorts of stuff. And quite a lot of what they do is invest in sport. They own a football team, but also cricket in different parts of the world now. IPL, obviously the headline, but they are taking a stake in the 100. um and daniel is excellent uh talking about uh what went on how this is a relationship that was forged over many months and wasn't just a a last minute uh you know bid that came in as as a final part of the process and it's a game changer it's a game changer for english cricket a huge injection of funding did you say how much they bought the stake for the valuation of the originals 116 million pounds at the end of this, with now 70 % owned by RPSG Group.

8:18And a game-changing moment, an opportunity to clear the decks, as Daniel talks about in terms of debt, but also allows investment potential in all sorts of areas of the Manchester Originals and what's going on with the 100, but more widely, Lancashire County Cricket Club. Daniel's background actually is in venue operation and management. For a long time, he was in charge of the Rico Arena in Coventry, which has had several different sports part of it, the home of Coventry City Football Club, of course. And now as part of Lancashire County Cricket, he is looking after Emirates, Old Trafford, a long time test venue, but increasingly a cricket venue that is doing lots of other stuff outside sport, whether that's hosting music or hosting conferences, events.

9:10There's a hotel part of that as well. So there's a real opportunity now with this funding injection to plot the next era, the next growth phase of English cricket. And that was the reason, or at least partly the reason why Daniel was at Lord's last week. He was having one of his regular check-ins with all the other CEOs and chairs of the county cricket clubs across the country. And I think fair to say the mood is far more positive than it was at this point last year when there was a lot of uncertainty about how this process would go, what would the result would be, would there be any interested parties, would there be as many as they ultimately got.

9:53And I think the general verdict on this process from an ECB point of view, from a club point of view, from the point of view of Deloitte and the Rain Group, who were very closely involved in creating the process and bringing the various bidders to the table, is this did surpass pretty much all expectations. Yeah, nice to go into the cricket season for all of these various stakeholders with a fat wad full of cash in the old pocket. It definitely helps. It definitely helps. Shall we hear from Daniel? Let's hear from Daniel Kidney now. Daniel Kidney thank you very much for joining us on the Leaders Sport Business podcast it's a beautiful early spring evening in London we're at the home of cricket lords a bit of an away fixture for you but you've been here for for meetings today how's it been down in the the big smoke yes it's very good although some of our supporters would say the home of cricket is in Manchester of course at Emirates Old Trafford but no it's great to be here and thanks for the invite No problem at all.

10:57What a busy start to the year you have had. I know you've spent a bit of time in India, which perhaps we can come on to talk about. But the headline news, of course, across English cricket has been the sales process, the sales auction for the stakes in the various hundred teams. and you've been in meetings today with lots of the key people around English cricket. Just give us a sense of the mood. I mean, from the outside, it seems like a remarkable result. What is the feeling? Is it surprise, delight, relief, a combination of all those things? I think, you know, people talk about, you know, spring being a time of hope and renewal and it genuinely feels like that.

11:40I've been in the game a while now and, you know, cricket has had a, you know, a bit of a history of eating itself, criticising itself. And genuinely, this has been something that has brought the game together for the collective good. And I have to praise, you know, the leadership of Richard Thompson and Richard Gould at the top of the ECB, chairman and chief exec, respectively, because they've achieved what I believe I don't think everybody else would have done, which was bringing the game with them on a project. And cricket doesn't have a brilliant history of doing that. They bring parts of the game, but not all of the game.

12:17And they brought all of the game. And genuinely, the feeling is one of hope and excitement. Take us inside your last few weeks. In fact, I know it's been going on a lot longer than that, the whole process. But as the CEO of Lancashire, what has it been like to engage in this process, probably immerse yourself in this process and get to the point which we'll come on to that you've got to with new ownership for the originals? Yes, it's been challenging. You know, I think as you develop in your career, you're always looking for new experiences and to challenge yourself. And it's certainly done that.

12:54It's been very interesting. It's very, it's not kind of normal. People who've been involved in M &A work or corporate transactions knows that that's not day-to-day running an organization. And so the skills often can be quite different. You know, sometimes people are specialists in mobilizing new contracts or working on M &A or working on specific projects. Running a large organization for a long period is a different skill set. So it does challenge you in a different way to work on something that is complex, very specific, very time-based, and that has significant benefits for multiple stakeholders, the way it's been set up with cricket.

13:39But certainly very, very different from the day-to-day. And there was obviously that period just a few weeks ago where the process was actually happening, the auction was happening. Just take us inside that bit and how that worked, how you saw that from your perspective, because you'd obviously been talking to a number of interested parties, but take us inside the sort of, you know, the five minutes to midnight almost. it's challenging the um my father owned an engineering company when he was alive and and he told me that when you do deals people buy people and so if you if you think about that for a second it's very difficult to go into a cold process and expect somebody to make that kind of level of investment so it was our late chairman sadly passed away during covid uh david Hodgkiss who said to me and colleagues India is the future for Lancashire and we've been the most active out of all of the counties pre-season tours for our men and women over the past five years it all started with the India-Pakistan game and the men's world cup 50th world cup in 2019 at Emirates Old Trafford unbelievable and the sheer passion and interest of celebrating a single game of cricket and you know what traditionally we're a bit boring in this country with how we watch cricket and that really opened my eyes and so we've been in India on pre-season tour for the past five years men's and women's teams have been um and we started to build relationships and some of my colleagues would say to me at the time you know how can you justify spending the money on a flight and a hotel because you know we'd only do that if we could get an immediate transaction there and then this was before the hundreds of some kind of commercial deal and I said what I've learned with India is the culture is different to the UK and you have to respect that and that it's you have to build relationships and take your time and be authentic and show the Indian market that you're serious about being present and active in India and that was a big lesson for me is to recognize that we had to make that investment in time and money to start with in terms of getting ourselves active and visible out there and so we built relationships with a number of the key players because we knew that we'd come to a point when we'd have to make some choices.

16:01I genuinely don't know how some of my peers have gone into a process where they're making a decision of this magnitude with people that they met two weeks ago. And there's a couple of people, a couple of my colleagues in different venues who were out having meetings 10 days before the auction. you know and put it in perspective Mark Chilton our director of cricket and myself had two hours with Dr. Sanjeev Goenka the billionaire owner of RPSG over a year ago and we as we had done with other owners of IPL teams we'd always said we wanted an IPL partner and so we we believe we had a bit of a head start because when people coming in the room and we were doing management presentations, we'd met them before.

16:53So it wasn't kind of starting from scratch. We felt that was a really, really big, important point for us. I know when the announcement was made, you talked about them always being your sort of preferred partner in this process. So a great result in that respect. They had sort of put their money where their mouths were in terms of following up on that. But even as that was sort of fairly well known I think did you have people knocking on your door or in your inbox last minute sort of you know coming in to see what was possible well I think it's fair to say that yes they were a preferred partner of ours but because of the way the process was set up we couldn't guarantee exactly what was going to happen at the end and so we had to build relationships and we decided early on as a board that we wanted an IPL team we wanted a big brand that could help us grow our data and help us with our with our customer perspective and data in this country but also we wanted a sporting partner somebody that we could work with that could help Lancashire achieve its ambitions on the pitch as well as Manchester Originals and the word partner is really important there and so we built relationships with the five biggest IPL brands um you know I don't like using the term hedging bets but effectively to give ourselves some comfort that that when we came to the final knockings that we could we could work with any of that group of five even if we had our preferences but it it is complicated because when you have a governing body that own 100 % of eight teams and then they decide to sell 49 % of each team separately and gift 51 % of each team to the host venues which is fantastic for us and for the game of cricket and then you have I think it was 130 people expressed initial interest and then round one you could as a bidder you could bid up to five teams well if you think about four-dimensional chess that's quite the complex in trying to predict exactly how that's going to flow through.

19:06It's a tricky spreadsheet to manage that, isn't it? Very much so. And I think Vic Banerjee at the ECB did a really good job. It was, and with the advisors, Rain and Deloitte. But I think even they would tell you that there were times when there were ebbs and flows in terms of how conversations and relationships were building that I don't think they were entirely sure how it was going to flow out. And if you Think about maths and a decision tree about if this partner doesn't go forward with this group, what does that mean? If they do go forward and then go with that group and say you might have somebody who was shortlisted by four venues, what happens then?

19:46So that was quite complex in doing that kind of route analysis of the decision trees of what might happen when. And there was also the schedule of auctions as well for different teams, which I guess played into it. Fascinating stuff. So Manchester Originals, men's and women's team, you have sold 70 % of that to RPSG Group who own the Look Now Supergiants, also the Durban Supergiants in South Africa. and as you say it's that controlling stake over and above the 49 % that the ECB was selling as part of this process. The reported total value 116 million pounds. Tell us about your new partners then RPSG.

20:36Who are they? What are you getting? You talked a little bit about the expertise and the skills but paint a picture for us as you're getting to know them having known them already for quite a while yes so what the big thing that i noticed was if i go back to that first meeting informal meeting um with the billionaire owner dr goenka with myself and mark shilton in his office in kolkata for two hours he gave us two hours of his time with nobody else in the room and and what came across was his genuine passion for cricket and and for us that really resonated we wanted a cricket partner you know for some of some of our some of the host venues wanted private equity we were clear we didn't want a short-term investor we wanted a long-term investor who had a sporting pedigree that you know that could come together with us there are certain things that we're very good at and certain things that we knew that we could benefit from from some help on and if you can get two like-minded organizations that bring complementary skills to the party um quite difficult to achieve in mna work but it's i believe that we've managed to find it but also down from dr goenka um and the management team particularly vinae chopra the ceo um gopal rathi head of mna and satra jitmal apotro who also works in mna just nice people generally nice people not you know sometimes when you do deals you'll have seen it David you get people who are just deliberately aggressive you know something my father taught me was you know it's really easy to say no it's much harder and an art to know when to say yes and when to concede something in the negotiation and um and we never had that it was everything all the way through was being fair balanced reasonable and we'd find a way through the discussions and I think that for me was what came across was not only did they have sporting pedigree they own an IPL team they own a South Africa T20 team but they also own a football team in India Mahon Begin who they've owned for I think at least seven years they've just won the title in India and they had I think that was owned by a lot of members and they retained the members still retain shares in that club.

23:04So for us, that kind of gave you a little flavor. This isn't a hard-nosed corporate. You know, the fact that they let those members retain some ownership in that football team, I was really quite impressed with. When I say they're not a hard-nosed corporate, they love their sport, but they are an enormous conglomerate PLC, but just majoritively owned by one family, which is, that's quite unusual in the UK. You don't really get that. Yeah. How is all this going to change your role as CEO? I mean, is it more meetings, double the meetings i'm hoping it doesn't i think the um i just see it as as another way that lancashire cricket club is expanding so we've grown our turnover in 12 years from 9 million to 36 million my role has changed over the years as our business has changed and evolved and i just see it as something in a different kind of evolution so manchester originals limited is a separate company.

24:03We will have board directors that are Lancashire shareholder representatives, of which I'll be one of them, and to represent Lancashire's interests on that board in that company. It'll just become different. I think I will have to prioritise. It'll mean members of my team might pick up some of my day-to-day tasks, but ultimately I see this as a positive because if we get this right and we get the particularly the cricket workings right with Mark Chilton who I believe I'm biased is the best director of cricket in the country we certainly have the best pathway you know we we develop more players than any of the county I think in 2022 in terms of what they call caps of people who played in the T20 blast or the county championship who came through a particular county pathway.

24:56We were by miles out in front at 447 caps. The lowest county was at 70. I've been kind of selling Mark's qualities that Mark can help them in South Africa and in AIPL in terms of developing a pathway. A pathway costs money, takes at least 10 years to embed. Not every county does that. I think what we do is the best in the country and that's something that we can definitely, we can definitely provide so it's very much a partnership so people focus on the percentage splits but this I see very much as a two-way partnership and as ever with anybody who runs any sort of sports organization you are managing multiple very different stakeholder groups whether that's partners or fans and it seems to me that through this whole process what is and has to be to a large extent a private confidential process but nonetheless one that is playing out amongst you know quite a lot of media scrutiny and quite a lot of public interest how do you feel the the communication process with fans has been from your perspective from an English cricket perspective and how important is it to uh really focus on that in your role now as the as the new ownership comes in and presumably there will be at some stage some changes probably some more visible than others but it seems to me that's that's a pretty fundamental bit of this in terms of taking all groups but I guess particularly fans particularly fans of long-term fans of Lancashire County Cricket Club with you on this next phase yes very good question we were very very clear that our you know we've got just under 10 ,000 members one of the highest levels in the country and a lot of them very traditional love the county championship and the red ball a lot of them actually you know like to bring their nephews nieces or grandchildren to come to a hundred game because it's hundreds of brilliant acquisition products to get new people into cricket and then it's our job to convert into longer forms but we were very clear that we wanted to over communicate so i we did more engagement sessions with our members than on this particular subject than any other county but also we did more communication on this subject than we have done on any subject since I've been at the club.

27:17So I think we ran 13 different engagement sessions over about 18 months where we just, even if we didn't have a lot more to say, but just to keep members and fans updated of where we were, what was happening, what the mood music was, and asking questions. What are the things that are on your mind? And we got really good feedback because that we'd engaged, we had open conversations. We said, this is where we're at. there's nothing more specific to update today this is kind of the direction of travel where the board are leaning what are the things that you're concerned about because quite often when you have a vacuum people invent things and people worry about things and and so for us it was very much about making sure there wasn't a vacuum so i think we've we work really hard on this process because it's big stuff to communicate often and early and over communicate and and as a result you know i think the last session we did where we explained the decisions that we made the partner that we had the percentage splits the valuation pretty much i think all the members said well yeah fair enough even if said some somebody said to me i don't like the 100 but i think this is a good decision for the club which is you know you can't ask for anything more i want to touch on venues particularly your venue up in manchester emirates old trafford um one of the the premier cricket venues in the country, if not the world.

28:43And one that I know with your background in venues is being increasingly, if I can use a word that I don't really like, sweated. Obviously, with the investment in the Manchester Originals, and in fact, any of the 100 investments that we've seen, the real estate is not included. But nonetheless, do you see opportunities? Do you see a pathway to continuing to develop and evolve the not just the infrastructure but the experience at emirates old trafford yes very much so i we've spent we've had a 75 million pound refurbishment at emirates old trafford over the past 12 years focusing on our hotel and conference business and building hard ebitda generating assets that develop revenues that are diversified away from sport because as we know professional sports teams don't generate revenue 365 days a year and now I think it's very much the time for us to invest in some cricket infrastructure some of our cricket infrastructure needs some love so our cricket centre is quite old now and that's something definitely that we want to invest in we've got a second ground coming up in Farrington I think that's the only project of its kind in the world where we've partnered with Lancashire going to council they're investing circa 20 million pound on two ovals an elite and a community oval it's an amazing project working also on a schools program with them and so there's some enhancements we'd like to do there so there are definitely things we can do to improve cricket from a training and a practice perspective and also um we also want to look at heritage and guest experience in the stadium these are things that we you know that we should be doing regularly anyway but it's something that gives us a great opportunity to refresh.

30:32I don't know if you've heard but there's quite a big regeneration project in Manchester that's been planned. There's a lot of renderings knocking about. Have you been involved? What do you make of it? It's obviously quite early stage but it seems from a wider regeneration standpoint pretty ambitious. I think it's very exciting for the area. We think it's great. I don't see any downside for us. We were in Old Trafford before they were. I think we've always been good partners, ourselves and United. And I think my only question would be is to make sure we're ambitious enough. And, you know, it's great that Andy Burnham and the Greater Manchester Command Authority are going to support Trafford because I think, you know, if you look at the current plans, it only really kind of talks about the regeneration kind of the other side of the stadium rather than kind of one of the original visions was like a processional route from Old Trafford tram stop past the cricket club all the way up to the football ground but that kind of ambition requires some stomach for some compulsory purchase orders you know if you're trying to clean up that bit on Chester Road intersection and when you have existing businesses that are making money that don't want to move that's where you need a power of something like a gmca to um to take a longer term wider view of actually how do we how do we master plan this properly and i think that if we can get that bit right and if we are ambitious enough in terms of our local stakeholders then this could be incredible let's talk a little bit about um formats which is obviously high on the agenda anytime cricket is mentioned um anywhere essentially and obviously uh we have the hundred uh format how bullish are you on that competition and on the format and what's the sense you're getting from not just your new partners on the investment front but the various partners who have who are coming into english cricket about their feelings towards the hundred as a format yeah it's interesting this you'd be amazed how many times i get asked this question there's quite a lot of noise around oh it should have been t20 and my perspective is if you look back at the original objective like in any product launch campaign this we need cricket needed an acquisition project the product that could drive more families women in particular um to the sport and without question the 100 has been a resounding success from a from an acquisition perspective and from a percentage of of buyers that are brand new to the sport and for me one of the things that I love about cricket but I'm an old badger is is the maths and the complexity um but for a brand new person it's difficult to consume so I've got members of my family you think I can't you know I know you love cricket but I struggle to follow it because it's complicated the thing about the 100 is it's it's just under 20 overs but it's not that dissimilar it's a short format competition a lot of the skills are the same and but two really important factors is from a broadcast perspective it gets it under three hours so which is so if you asked sky or bbc in the room they say they love the format from that perspective but also for somebody watching it for the first time it's really easy to consume there are 100 balls and it's one team has to score as many runs as they can in 100 balls and then the other team has to score as many runs as they can in 100 balls it's not it's not complicated so for an acquisition product it's absolutely done its job and our partners are very happy with it and do you know what there's a billion pounds or just under a billion pounds worth of investment people coming into a sport and there is nothing in any contract that says that's conditional on it becoming T20.

34:44So I think that probably answers, there's a billion reasons why the format will probably stay. And the other format I did want to touch on, which you mentioned earlier, was county championship cricket, which is obviously a staple of the English summer. I mean, is county championship cricket in your mind, and you talked about the members and some of them being really avid fans and that being a big important part of their lives really is that actually the rare instance of a competition a format that is really actually okay just to be in survival mode i mean is there a magic bullet that can that can take all sports all competitions talk about on this podcast and leaders events and everywhere we talk to people about the next growth phase the next growth spurt.

35:32Is that the case for county championship cricket or actually is it okay as a sort of steady Eddie? Yeah I believe it's okay as a steady Eddie. I would love to find ways to innovate and I would love to challenge the governing body to think of ways to innovate to make it more attractive to people who don't currently watch cricket. At the moment I've got to it's quite a long journey quite a long escalator to convert a hundred viewer into becoming a a four-day country championship viewer. I think we've got Langs TV, which makes it more accessible for people to consume from around the world, which helps.

36:09But I think with ECB, there are ways that we could probably look at, I think with regs, that we could try and find ways that make that more attractive. But it's not a commercial sport. You know, country championship loses money. But I think that's okay. And I'll tell you why that's okay. Because my favorite form of the game is the purest form of the game, which is Test Match Cricket. And without a county championship, you can't have Test Match Cricket. There are some people who will tell you that, yeah, you can. You can just recruit every Test Cricketer from short format leagues. I don't believe you can.

36:44If you look at the BCCI recently, there was a couple of players who didn't want to play in the Red Bull Rangie Trophy and the BCCI suspended their IPL contracts until they did. Recognising that the core basics come through from playing long form cricket. And for me, we have to have a strong and thriving counter championship, even if we recognize that it will be more of a development competition and a performance pathway to test cricket. But we have to love it and support it both financially and in innovation to keep it relevant because otherwise it will become really, really hard to sustain. And if we let it go, then test cricket, in my view, controversially will be in threat.

37:28A couple more questions for you. You've got or are about to get an injection of funding, quite substantial funding. What is that going to be used for? A lot of counties have talked about it being an opportunity to wipe out debt, to get on a slightly more even keel. How are you thinking about how you're spending or how, you know, the strategy behind that investment? I start with, you know, you mentioned the enterprise value of 116 million. I think we were delighted with that number. We were third highest outside of London. And in fact, actually, you know, the oval was reported at one, two, three.

38:05Our revenue multiple was higher than the ovals. So Manchester definitely punched above its weight, which I think Manchester likes doing generally in life. so we were really excited by that I think it's a game changing opportunity to recapitalise the game of cricket so you've got a number of international venues that have spent between them £300 million refurbishing their venues with about£200 million of debt this is a once in a generation opportunity to recapitalise the game and most of our debt funnily enough is around our hotel and conference business which is more than serviceable but this does give us an opportunity to pay down some debt and also to build liquidity and cash reserves policy and also to invest in some cricket facilities for the next generation so i i think you'll get to a point when you know our balance sheet becomes much stronger and our cricket future becomes much stronger and i i think that as a combination is is just magic for the game and what do the next few months look like as you onboard your new investment partner?

39:11I mean, how will things be different from last summer in your world? Yeah, 25 is going to be interesting because 25 technically the ECB is still managing the tournaments. There's going to be a transition year. But, and that's going to be interesting because I think the ECB are managing the tournament. But then you've got ourselves and our new partner who, you know, you mentioned earlier about the 70-30. There's often a big difference. People don't understand the difference between equity percentage and actually what day-to-day control means you know you know the ineos own 27 and a half percent of united but actually control united so we've we've got a genuine 50 50 partnership and we're the only team out of the eight that has negotiated a joint venture operating agreement so even though you've got the equity splits we'll be running the team together so it's going to be ourselves rpsg and ecb we're gonna have to find a way of working out how we do that together in 25 so that's going to require some thought but then in 26 literally the shackles are off i think it's it's very exciting and daunting because ecb are effectively going right there you go guys here's a load of commercial revenue but now you've got to pay a large percentage of the running of the tournament so actually you've got a lot of cost to manage and deliver now as well so and i think there's a big responsibility on us as owners to justify the legacy that the ecb has given us and so that in five six years seven years time people go wow the ecb were right they'd had a great launch but actually look at what these eight different investors have brought to the table with eight counties and look at what that combination is now done for the game good stuff uh congratulations on the deal good luck for what's to come uh daniel gidney thanks very much for joining us thank you