Are You Doing Play “Right”? What Toddlers Actually Need to Learn & Develop with Tania Johnson (Institute of Child Psychology) | Ep. 141

0:00Hello and welcome back to another episode of the Learning to Mom podcast. If you're new here, this is the podcast where you get the inside scoop on all things motherhood from your official mom friend, me, Layla. Now this is the only podcast that grows with you. So season one covered all things pregnancy and birth. Season two is all things postpartum and baby's first year of life. Now we're covering your baby's second year of life. So topics you'll encounter when they're 12 to 24 months old here in season three. Each season is 52 episodes long, a whole year. So if you get pregnant again or have a pregnant friend, tell them about season one.

0:39Now, basically I was the first of my friends to get pregnant and become a mom. So I didn't have anyone to ask my first time mom questions too. So I wanted to give you the resource in your motherhood journey that I wish I could have had in mind here. You'll get your questions answered by experts without feeling judged, belittled, or overwhelmed. This is a safe, judgment-free, super honest space. I am so glad to have you here. Each expert guest, including myself, comes with their own perspective and background. So please note the content presented in this podcast is designed for general educational purposes only and is not a substitute for personalized professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.

1:18Tenya, welcome to the Learning to Mom podcast. Thank you so much for coming on today.

1:23Tania Johnson:Oh, Leila, it's such an honor. I've been excited to chat with you. This is a very exciting episode. I'm very passionate about play. I am so excited to learn alongside the listeners for today's episode. But before we get into today's episode, really all about play, can you just share a little bit about yourself and what the Institute of Child Psychology is all about? I am a registered psychologist. I'm also a registered play therapist which is good for today's podcast i'm one of the directors of the institute of child psychology what we wanted with the institute of child psychology was basically a meeting place for parents and professionals to empower themselves with tools and strategies to really helping our kiddos be the very best version of themselves so tell me an idea the director we both started off in clinic i still work in clinic with kids but the people we really wants to be talking to were the parents, the grandparents, the teachers, the daycare providers.

2:22Tania Johnson:That's where both of our passion really lies. Well, then that just sets it up perfect because today you're talking to parents. So talking about play when it comes to a 12 to 24 month old, what really constitutes as play so this age group is absolutely beautiful because this is this gorgeous point where they're really starting to explore their world and basically they let everything that they're doing is play we can divide it up into different play categories whether it's sensory play or physical play or object play a more natural way of really talking about play at this age is that as they put that little object into their mouth or as they stack caps or as they pretend to copy mom with a toy phone all of that is playing and that is how our kiddos learn it's through touching exploring really starting to dive deep into like oh what is mommy doing on the phone i'm gonna do the same thing as mommy right now all of those moments are play with our children and that is how they learn they learn through play all mammals learn through play, including our kids.

3:35I never thought about it being an experience shared with mammals.

3:39Tania Johnson:If we look across the animal kingdom, we see all babies playing. And play is how they learn about their environment, which obviously when our children play less, it becomes worrying. But play is the vehicle for learning for our children. Yeah, I just never thought about that. But you're right i'm thinking about like the baby monkeys or like the puppies especially little kittens all of them play yeah oh my gosh okay so i want to just let's start off with talking about the importance of play and what it does to their sweet little brains so as i said our kiddos they're learning about their world through play and as they play and as they have repeated this is the golden key here the repeated experiences of play as they repeatedly explore or they touch the thing or they stack something or they play with the sand or the mud as they have those repeated experiences we start to see these big beautiful brains really starting to develop and it develops all areas of the brain so it develops the prefront cortex it develops the motor areas it develops literally every single part of the brain so that prefront cortex many of us will only really lights up much later on in life that'll be five to seven years old for children who are neurotypical but in these early stages 12 to 24 months basically what we're doing is we're building the staircase from the bottom parts of the brain to the top part of the brain through repeated experiences that create these strong neural pathways so every single time they dip that little hand in the mud or they take that twig and they start like pounding it every time they do that they learn something new and that neural pathway gets stronger and stronger the staircase from the different parts of the brain gets stronger and stronger and really our work is to help our kiddos to develop these beautiful integrated brains and it's all done through play and these foundational years later are huge it's like we're we're putting the foundation of the household in place.

5:47Tania Johnson:And if that foundation is strong, then the top parts of the brain are likely to be strong. But when kiddos have difficulties or that bottom part is fragile, that foundation is fragile, it can lead to later issues later on in life because the top part isn't as strong if the foundation isn't strong. So right now, 12 to 24 months is absolutely pivotal in terms of a child's long-term wellness and development. Let's get real for a second. Parenting can feel isolating. You're making big decisions every day and sometimes it's hard to know if you're on the right track. That's why I love my mom club on Patreon.

6:31It's where you get access to more content, but it's where moms come together to talk about what's really going on, to ask honest questions and to feel seen in every version of motherhood. One mom club bestie said it perfectly. I'm in a few different Patreon groups, but the mom club is hands down the best. You get a community and so much incredible content. If you've been craving a community that really gets it, this is your place. Come join us at learningtomompodcast.com slash join. That links in the episode show notes in case you forget or can't write it down right now. I cannot wait to welcome you inside mom friend and become real mom friends.

7:16So making sure that they have such a great foundation through play, what would you say is the recommendation for like how much play a child should be getting every day? Yeah.

7:27Tania Johnson:So at this age, they need to be playing as much as possible the very basic recommendation from the world health organizations that they're moving at least three hours a day which you will know if we've got little ones at home that's not a lot like our kids really need to be moving way more than that and you know when we're talking about movement we're not talking about anything crazy we're not talking about highly highly highly active day all the time we're just talking about them being in the living room exploring out in the backyard. But really, as they start to learn about their world, we really want to see that our kiddos are involved in play and exploration for the most part of the day.

8:07Tania Johnson:And we actually discourage it from always being adult led movement, exploration and play. There's different types. It's really important that our kids are also exploring by themselves in a safe way. So then what are those other types? So when we look at play, one of the main ways that we really want our kids to be exploring is their child led play so with child led play particularly at this age this can be with an adult sitting right next to them or can be with an adult nearby but they are having a look at all the different blocks and starting to build those blocks they are taking a little toy car and rooming it back and forward or they're starting to mimic what adults are doing in their world during this type of play right now they're the one leading it entirely and there might be a parent there who goes like oh look the red one's going on top of the blue one or oh that one is going faster than that one so while we might kind of narrate what they're doing which is actually really helpful for our children they also need spaces when adults steps back and lets them just explore begins to play because that is truly where probably the most growth happens is when kids explore without having this hovering adult nearby who is directing all parts of the play.

9:27Tania Johnson:There are times for structured play and there is value in structured play but what we're seeing more and more is a kid's play is being taken over by highly structured interaction play with adults or by electronic play unfortunately and what our kiddos need is just that space to explore and learn about their world without it being constantly directed all the time. I want to get deeper into that. Let's first talk about the electronic play. So Lila, I'm going to say unequivocally, and it's funny, it becomes a little bit more nuanced as our kids get older, but unequivocally, there is nothing on a screen that can help your child to learn about their world that even begins to rival real world play.

10:16Tania Johnson:and there's lots of programs out there we had the whole saga with baby einstein as an example but there's lots of claims out there of teach your kid about their shades teach your kid about colors we know that the way our children under the age of two learn is through hands-on to exploring through this deep sensory experience of their world we also know that our kids learn from adult interactions so sitting there with an adult and talking about what's actually happening the research is super clear on this that your child will not have the same impact on their learning from a screen as they will from in-person real world interactions when it comes to childhood development we want our kids off those screens before they age or two full stop you know and sometimes for some parents it's like i just have to stick on a show when i'm trying to make dinner we'll do what we need to do to survive but i also don't want us to think that it's actually teaching I kid anything in those moments.

11:14So I feel like sometimes we think, okay, well, I'm going to put on Miss Rachel comes to mind, right? I'm going to put Miss Rachel on because then they're learning the shapes and the colors or whatever, at least. And then when you say like, well, this is, they actually aren't really learning from screens. Does that mean that there is a big importance on us being the ones to be like, this is blue all the time? Or is it more just like, you have fun, kid, you like, you know, and take some of the pressure off? Or is it really like, now I have to be Miss Rachel?

11:49Tania Johnson:Such a great question. So as a mom and myself, I'm going to say that sometimes we absolutely can eat Miss Rachel. Interrupting this week's episode real quick for this week's segment of MomMail. If you're new here, this is the part of the show where I answer a listener submitted situation or scenario. Basically, you write in your tricky situation and I give you advice only a real mom friend would give. Here's the email we're answering this week. Hi, Layla. I hope you don't mind answering this question. You don't have to share anything personal or even answer this email if you don't feel comfortable, but I need help.

12:25My husband and I haven't had sex for months. We have an 11-month-old and I'm truthfully just exhausted. I absolutely have no desire. My husband is very frustrated and wants intimacy, which I do understand, but I literally just have no desire and I am so tired by the end of the day, which is why we haven't had sex in months. How do I magically get a higher sex drive? P.S. I love my husband. He is great. It is not him. It is me. Oh, friend. Okay. Where to start? One, thank you for writing in and being so vulnerable and honest. It's an honor to come alongside of you and to know these intimate details.

13:08So thank you for writing in. Secondly, I do think that in the early years of parenthood, it's not necessarily uncommon. It is a struggle that many people experience and go through, and I have gone through it myself. It's very difficult. I'm just wanting you to know that like, it's kind of a common struggle. Okay, so while I'm recording this, I am in the middle of recording next season's episodes before I go on maternity leave. So I had a guest, she's Ellen from Charting Towards Intimacy. And I actually asked her all about this. So I'm going to give you some advice that she passed on to me that will be coming out later.

13:56I know a lot of people will talk about connecting with your spouse and going on date nights and talking about things that aren't just parenthood. And I do think that those things are really good tips, but I will say I was really blown away by her episode and I'm really, really excited for you to listen to it on this upcoming season when it comes out and she just dives into all of this. So what this guest shared was basically that sex for men is a survival or like a physical need, whereas that is not the case for women. So if the world was ending, men would still be like, we need to have sex. And women would in turn be like, we cannot have sex right now.

14:35I have no desire. And that is physiologically appropriate because our body knows I can't get pregnant because the world is ending. Then I'm going to be having a life inside of me and I'm going to have to give birth while the world is ending and all this stuff, right? So hopefully that makes sense and it just paints a picture as to what is happening in your brain because your brain, it sounds like you might be in a state of chronic stress or experiencing a lot of stress, especially because you just said that you were exhausted by the end of the day. So essentially your body is like, I cannot get pregnant.

15:12Therefore, I cannot have a desire for intimacy because I cannot handle a pregnancy or another baby right now because I am in so much stress. The world is ending. That is what we're telling our body. And essentially what we need to do is do some things that will help our bodies understand that the world is not ending. She talks a lot about making sure you're getting a minimum of eight hours of sleep at night, lowering your stress load and eating enough calories. When all of those things, we're not sleeping enough. We're not eating enough calories. We're literally continuing to tell our body like, yeah, the world is ending.

15:55We cannot do this. And then over time, that literally turns our desire off because our body knows I cannot get pregnant right now. I am running from a state of depletion. I have nothing else to give. So we need to give back to our body and we need to love our bodies and be gentle to our bodies. I am so excited for you to listen to Ellen's episode. I learned so, so much and I'm implementing so many things from that episode. But again, I'm really, really excited for you to listen to that episode that comes out later this

16:27Tania Johnson:season. Now, if you're looking for advice, email me at learningtomompodcast.mommail at gmail.com with the subject line, mom mail, and then keep your ears open because we might just answer it in an upcoming episode. And, you know, if you talk to parents, they'll say, you know what, Tanya, my kid has learned so much from a TV show. They're saying words that I know that I haven't actually taught my kiddo. They're not in any form of programming. It's come from the TV. I'm going to say, yes, that's there. But we know that deep learning happens from, again, that exploratory hands-on play. So there needs to be this beautiful mix.

17:04Tania Johnson:If and when possible, we turn those TVs off, we turn those screens off, hopefully little ones under the age of two don't have an ipad in their hands those things are all turned off if we're already going for gold standard here we turn off those screens and there's a blend between we're just naturally teaching our kids those colors we don't need to sit down and have a full lesson with them it's just you know as we're cooking we're like oh you've got the red block end of story so we're naturally teaching them as they explore their world and there needs to be also times where they're just exploring by themselves obviously because they're little in close proximity so that we know that they're safe.

17:39Tania Johnson:That's where the best learning happens. That 12 to 24 month period, there's so much exquisite brain development happening for our children. And when we place them in front of a screen, those experiences we know don't help to build those strong neural connections. In fact, when kids are watching screens where there's frenetic quick activity it's actually a detriment to what's happening in terms of brain development for our kiddos so while they might know from the tv show that is an orangutan who lives in africa they might throw out some words and we go like whoa that's amazing how did you even learn something like that it's not what's needed for that strong foundation so as i said when and where possible i'm going to say to everybody under the age of two turn off those screens, put those iPads away, let them learn through developing.

18:33Tania Johnson:And you don't always need to be the primary teacher for your kiddo. Their world and their play is the primary teacher for them. That is such a good reminder. I think that is very like Western civilization of us to be like, it's all on me. When you look at what other cultures are doing or what the majority of the world has been doing for thousands of years is really that approach of like the world is the primary teacher and you can take some of that pressure off. Absolutely. Absolutely. And they will learn. They will know their colors. They will know their shapes in time. It will come. But I think the more pressure that we place on ourselves to be everything, to be teacher, to be mom, to get the dinner going, when we have that much pressure, it's hard to actually enjoy where they're at and the stage that they're at.

19:21Tania Johnson:And more than anything, they need us to delight in them. They need us to find joy in those moments. And they need our presence more than a mom or a caregiver that's coming in highly stressed with this highly structured agenda. So great. That was so beautiful. What about the types of toys or materials are most beneficial at this age? So we're really looking for kind of open-ended toys as much as possible, whether it's kind kind of silk scarves that they can play with, whether it's wooden blocks, anything that doesn't have an outcome that says this is the way that it needs to look. At this age, we want kids kind of the curiosity to really be piqued.

20:05Tania Johnson:This is what we're focusing on right now so that they go like, oh, look at this. What happens if I kind of apply the silk scarf in the sky? What happens when I stick my fingers into this sand right now. Right now when we can spark a child's curiosity, that's what creates its strong foundation for the brain. And while there is a place for put the circle in the circle spot on the board or learn how to pull the laces a little bit back and see what happens if we start to tie them, there is a space and a place for those types of toys. But I'm going to argue that this 12 to 24 month age group, which is just, it's such a beautiful age group to be focusing on.

20:48Tania Johnson:That is the curiosity element that is the most important. So really, when we're buying toys and we're thinking about toys, we want to ask ourselves, does this spark my child's creativity? Is there an end outcome or is it kind of the thing where we're going to put in those, you know, nature elements? So shells, rocks, maybe some twigs. When my child is going to look at it and go, oh, what do I do with this? Pick it up, move it around a little bit, maybe start to create something depending on their development. That's what we want for our kids is what sparks creativity that doesn't say to them, you are a witch.

21:26Tania Johnson:This is how you push the button so that it whirls or twirls or beeps. We want to stay away from those toys as much as possible and instead anything that sparks their creativity and also their sensory experiences of the world. I would choose the curiosity-based toys over the result-based toys, hands down, every time. Okay. How can we as moms set up a play space that encourages that, even if it's small or if you're in an apartment or whatever? So really, the research is so interesting in this. I'll give you a study that they did. They took two groups of kids. And with the one group of kids, it was a ton of toys in their play space.

22:08Tania Johnson:and then they had another group of kids where there was just a handful and these were i think they were about three years old so they were little ones so just a little handful of toys and what they found was that the children who were in the play space with a lot of toys they would engage in what we call exploratory play but in a different way to what we're talking about right now one of the most common questions i receive is what pregnancy or nursing safe skincare and makeup do you recommend? Now, in case you didn't know, it is so important to be using pregnancy and nursing safe skincare during those seasons.

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24:01Tania Johnson:so basically they would flit from toy to toy so they would push this button then they would go the next toy they would maybe try to build something for a couple of seconds then they would go to the next toy so they move from toy to toy very quickly during the play time the children who were given just a handful of toys they engaged in that initial play but then they also went much much deeper into their play and their creative processes were much much deeper when they only had a handful of toys so we know that the true benefits from play come from play rooms where there are less toys and less to actually engage in because then they actually do have to use some of their own self-motivation to go like oh okay well I've looked at the toys now which one interests me what I want to play with what I actually do with this thing the beauty is that when children are in an environment and they start to go like, oh, I don't know what to do here.

24:56Tania Johnson:They start to feel a little bit bored. We know that that is when the deepest creativity happens. So this isn't just about this ongoing, like, oh, new toys, new toys. This is more about this is what's in your environment. This is what here, this is what we have to play with. And within that, they then start to explore instead of constantly providing new stimulation for our children. I do agree with that 100%. I think our society is obsessed with making sure our children are occupied and entertained the whole time because like, God forbid, they get bored. And I remember growing up and being bored all the time.

25:30And my mom was like, never worried about it, obviously, because it shouldn't be an issue. But I just remember being like, I'm so bored. But I think we're trying to create an environment today for our children where they don't experience boredom and I don't get that.

25:44Tania Johnson:Totally like you and I are on the same page here I think that's somewhere we all drank the kool-aid and believed that we had to become our child's constant entertainer with items and toys they constantly entertain them and that's not actually what they need like children need space to grow and to develop and again the research is clear here that when children are bored that's often when the deepest creativity happens it also when our kids on the go all the time so we had baby music class followed by baby gymnastics followed by new toys in the playroom what happens is that their sympathetic nervous system is on go all the time so it's like go go go interesting wow what's happening here oh what's mom doing now oh now it's cooking time with mom so even though it's fun stuff that that sympathetic nervous system which is the accelerator of the body is go go go go go but when we stop all of that constant stimulation when they are bored what happens is we have that initial like frustration hump that we have to get over with them of i'm bored i don't know what to do and once we're over that frustration hump the the parasympathetic nervous system the relaxation part of our body the breaks of the body start to set in which is what our kids need in order to rest repair and also to consolidate new learning but when they're on the go all the time that stress system is in place and that new learning doesn't actually get consolidated so kids desperately need time to be bored to daydream and to not be constantly entertained yeah so i have a patreon and on the patreon we do a monthly book club and meeting and i'm rereading but it's for this book club so i have i read hunt gather parent when my first like a newborn and it was really great ideas and i hadn't picked it up again until right now at the time of this recording.

27:30We are meeting Thursday to talk about the book. And it's just been so amazing because now I have a three-year-old. And so it's just hitting completely different points. And that was something that the book talked about so much was just like the importance and the beauty that you give your child when they are afforded the opportunity to be bored. And one of the things that it does allow them to do is to then actually be more involved around the house and like help you out and learn how to be a contributing member of your family and therefore society and all the things. But if they're like entertained and put in front of a screen or put in front of a thousand toys, there's no desire for them to help you in the kitchen.

28:11Tania Johnson:Yeah. Okay, back to play a little bit. What are some of the biggest misconceptions when it comes to play for this age? I would say that play is just something that they do. So play is what they do when they're not doing the important work of life. I think that that's the main thing. I think what I would really love parents to really hold is that play is learning. Play is how they understand their world. Play isn't something that they do after baby music class. Play is their vehicle in understanding and exploring and learning about their world. So that would be the first one. I think the second one that we've already just touched on right now is that play is only really play when an adult is involved our kids like i said they need all types of play they need some play with an adult and then they also need lots of play by themselves so those are the biggest two that i see that plays this extra thing that they do it's not and that parents always need to be involved with their play they don't Yeah.

29:16Okay. Those were good ones to hit. Before we wrap up here, I want to make sure that people know where they can find you. So where can they do that?