Car Seat Safety 101: When to Forward Face, How to Choose the Right One & Mistakes to Avoid with Michelle Pratt from Safe In The Seat | Ep. 136

0:00I would never, ever turn a kid before age two. If you don't have a fully formed spine and you don't have a body that is totally equipped to be able to help handle the crash forces that could come, then we're putting our kids at risk. When you're rear facing, their heads fall back into the shell of their car seat, right? If we turn our kids before they're ready, they're simply not developed enough on the inside to be able to handle those crash forces the way that we want them to be able to handle it. it's like I'd rather a broken leg than a broken skull I mean I know that's terrible to say but it's like you know that can be the truth and sometimes people need to hear that hey mom friend

0:39Michelle Pratt:welcome back to the learning to mom podcast I'm Layla your official mom friend around here we don't shy away from hard conversations we talk about the real and the hard parts of motherhood but we don't just stop there we give tangible advice for moving past the hard I started this podcast because I didn't have anyone to ask my endless first-time mom questions to, and I wanted to create that space for you. So take a deep breath. Let's dive in together. Each expert guest comes with their own background and perspective, so please note that the content presented in this podcast is designed for general educational purposes only and is not a substitute for personalized professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.

1:19Michelle Pratt:Hi, Michelle. Welcome to the Learning to Mom podcast. Hi, Layla. So happy to be here. You were actually, as I mentioned, like people told me you have to have Michelle on. She's so great. And then when your team reached out, it was just like, oh my gosh, this is a sign. It's a bend to be. This is going to be so good. Before we get into the heart of the episode, can you just introduce yourself to the listeners and share specifically what Safe in the Seat does and what you're all about? Yeah, you bet. So I'm Michelle Pratt. I'm a mom of two and my kids are a little bit older. there that my son just turned 12, which it's so true that the days are long and the years are short because I just like, cannot even believe that that, that I just said that out loud.

2:02And my daughter is nine and a half going on, you know, 16 as, as they do, um, safe in the seat really started out of my own personal need to find a resource where I didn't feel like crap about myself for not knowing about all of the car seat safety stuff. And I didn't feel judged or ashamed. So saving the seat really is all about education and support and really bridging the gap between the scary science techie stuff of car seat safety and bringing it into our like real mom life world. Yeah.

2:38Michelle Pratt:And I think it is so helpful because it's one of those things. Let's just add it to the list, Michelle. It's one of those things that like you just throw a car seat on your baby registry because you don't know what you're doing and like, Oh, my neighbor had this on her registry. So I'll just put it on there. And then when it's time for your baby to actually be in that car seat or when it's time for the upgrade to the next size or whatever, Oh my gosh, you're like, I don't know anything. So where do you start? So, I mean, that is so relatable. I think it certainly is to me and to every other person that I talked to in the safe and seek community.

3:16because it's like we ticked the box, right? We added it to our registry or we know we're supposed to get one that looks a little different than the infant seat when they grow out of it. But like, that's about all I know. Buy one, have one. And then from there, you're on your own. That's really where we try to come in. So you start by buying the right car seat and the right car seat is not the one your friend has or the one that looks the prettiest, though you can consider all those things if you'd like to. But you start by buying the car seat that's actually gonna meet your budget, it, your child's needs, your vehicle needs, your lifestyle needs.

3:49And there's, as we know, millions of options to choose from. And that's part of the resources that we provide is to help parents by asking them these six questions and then helping them narrow down what actually is the best car seat for them, because it is different based on what you need and want and the needs of your family and your kids. So that's kind of, to me, step one, let's get you in the right seat in the right stage. Okay. So you just said those six questions and now we all have to know what are the six questions? What are they? So, I mean, the shameless plug for our CarSea Finder quiz, because it's free, it's on our website, even from a recommendation standpoint, it can become incredibly overwhelming.

4:28So the questions are around budget, you know, just tell us what your budget range is. We give you some options. They are around your child fit. So we look at body types for children and we ask it to you in very easy ways. Things like, does your kid wear a larger size shirt than pants? Because we're looking for torso height. And again, we try to make it just very user friendly. So that can impact how long a car seat can last since kids sit in car seats. So we need to know if they're kind of longer on the top or longer on the bottom or pretty evenly spaced, if you will. We talk about vehicles. We asked some specific questions about things in vehicles that could limit certain car seats being compatible.

5:09So how great would it be to know that before you purchased a car seat that this one might not be compatible because you have fixed headrests, for example, or something else. We talk a lot about lifestyles. So lifestyle could be things like I need a car seat that I can easily move from one car to the other, or I am in an urban area and I ride share. or just anything that's like lifestyle related. I want one that's super easy to clean. I care that it doesn't have flame retardant. It's a great resource for people to at least give them a starting point of, of even questions to consider if they, like how would anyone know to consider those questions?

5:47Michelle Pratt:So that brings up a question that I have for you. And I know that this is a hot take, if you will, but you just know your stuff and you're the expert and you are very pro as safe as possible. Give us the ideal timeline for a child, like from booster seat to no, not booster seat, what infant seat or bucket seat is there called to is the last one, the booster where you're just like sitting on that. Yeah. I mean, the last one, we just created a guide on this actually, cause it's the number one question I get asked is when to switch from one stage to the next and it's the number one misuse for car seat safety but like zero to 12 is what you kind of have to have in your head that my kids are going to potentially be in something till age 12 and they're not 12 years not 12 months 12 years yeah I do think it's really good to know that from the start right because it's like you know you go from never having a car seat in your car to like now I have this big bulky thing in my car and if you expand your family of multiple of them and their pain.

6:49Like, I get it. They're absolutely necessary and we need to do it right. But it is a long process and we don't want to rush that process. Every stage, they can be less safe if they're not ready for that stage.

7:02Michelle Pratt:Interrupting this episode so, so fast to remind you about my favorite non-toxic clean makeup brand. The only makeup I wear because I don't want toxins rubbing off on my face and ending in my kids' bloodstreams. Because did you know that it takes less than 30 seconds for your body to absorb whatever you put on your skin into your bloodstream? So it matters what we are putting on our skin because it is ending up in the bloodstream of our children when we give them kisses, when we snuggle, etc. So if you're wanting to make a switch to makeup that you can wear without any worry and have it look just as good as whatever you're buying from Ulta or Sephora, let me introduce you to my ride or die.

7:43Michelle Pratt:It's so good and I believe it is so important to wear non-toxic makeup and skincare, especially as moms, which is why I'm annoying and don't shut up about this. So please, please go check it out. I have it linked in the show notes below for you, but because I know how overwhelming a whole website can be, I also have linked my everyday staples from them. So that way you can go check them out and you know like a good place to start. it's at learning to mom podcast.com slash makeup which I have a discount code for you on that page so big win now go check that out again it's learning to mom podcast.com slash makeup go check it out before you get distracted by a dirty diaper or something yeah so what give us like just so that we can be mentally prepared for years down the line how infant bucket seat there's a lot you have to start with that, but most people start with that, right?

8:36Then we go into the convertible, which could also be an all-in-one. I'll say what that is in a second, but like convertible, meaning it converts. It converts from, you know, you can have a real bra or a strapless bra. It converts, right? It has two different modes of use. So rear facing, and then it switches to forward facing, both in a harness. I'm talking that thing that goes over their shoulders, you clip in place at the crotch buckle and the chest clip. That's a harness. then the next stage is a high back booster so now they're in some sort of kind of car seat looking contraption but there's no more harness we're now using the adult seat belt the all-in-one seats have all in one they include that stage in it the convertible seats only convert to that rear and forward facing so there's no right or wrong answer there it's just they kind of overlap so then we go high back booster and we don't like to see a kid before age five in a high back booster because the vehicle seatbelt requires a lot of maturity to be able to sit.

9:30So we like you to wait as long as possible. Also just for your own mama sanity. Like trust us, the longer you wait, the better. Then we say to go into a no back booster or low back booster, they sometimes are called where it's like sitting on a phone book, essentially. That's that, you know, booster stage that you think of. And then they go into just a straight up adult seatbelt in the back seat. um a lot of people think when you're done with the booster then they now can go to the front seat that's not true um so booster and then usually they're in the in the back seat i guess if they were age you know 12 almost age 13 and they were still in a booster and then they went to the front seat but in general most kids are not in a booster at age 13 so then they go to the front seat when they hit age 13 okay or the back they can also stay in the back i'll probably I get major hate for being like, you don't have to put them in the front seat.

10:27But just knowing my own 12-year-old and the amount of crap he gives me to want to sit in the front seat, I will be hard-pressed not to let him when he turns 13. It's so understandable. I remember being little and that's all I wanted, you know? Oh, my gosh. Like, that's a sign that you are cool. You're cool. You get to ride shotgun. Like, I've made it. As a kid, I have made it. Exactly. All right. Something that we have to get into today, Michelle. I know it's coming.

10:58Michelle Pratt:I know it's coming and I'm so excited for it to come because this is a argument that I get in with, with my family members. So maybe I'll just take this clip. And I say that so sassily, if you were listening, I love you so much, but I may be taking this clip and be sending it to them. Absolutely. Why or when do our children go forward facing? Okay. I know you want a hard and fast answer. And believe me, if in this world of car seat safety, I could just say when it's not though. Yeah, I can say when it's not. I, I would never, ever turn a kid before age two. I would never do that. Never before age two.

11:40um but let me like back it up for a second and again like I try very hard to have people think in terms of like all right I'm a smart person I'm a well-intended everyone listening is that so let's just think about it our kids come out of our bodies or someone's body they get put in a car seat they are literally uh you know just like a lump right they can't hold their heads up they can't their their bodies are not developed their bones are not fused together, their muscles are not fully formed, all of those things. So we have this like little lump, there has to be a better word, but this little, you know, human ball that we're responsible for doing everything for because they can't do anything on their own.

12:19We put them in this, the most dangerous thing that they could possibly be on, which is a vehicle. We've done our jobs. We have put the car seat in there because we know their best protection is to be in this car seat that kind of retrofits the vehicle for their safe transportation. Now, that kid's head, if you guys haven't noticed, is probably a lot larger than their body. You know, we've seen that video where, you know, you try to get your kids to put their hands up around their head and they can't even do it because their heads are so much bigger than the rest of their body. That means their heads are heavy.

12:52And if you don't have a fully formed spine and you don't have a body that is totally equipped to be able to help handle the crash forces that could come from a really heavy head, right? Then we're putting our kids at risk. When you're rear facing, their heads fall back into the shell of their car seat, right? Their body's just kind of, they're a little turtle shell. They're kind of encased in this turtle shell. They fall back into the car seat. They're fully protected like they're in your arms, right? We're able to hold them all in the right place. When we turn them forward facing because they have a big old head and they still have an underdeveloped spine, then we have to know that the body is ready to do what it has to do and protect that head, neck and spine.

13:37If we turn our kids before they're ready, they're simply not developed enough on the inside to be able to handle those crash forces the way that we want them to be able to handle it. And I think when we back up, I kind of get goosebumps even so when I say that, because by the way, I turned my son right on his second birthday. I thought that's what I was supposed to do. So that was before I started this. And then my daughter maxed out her limits. So what I want to tell you guys is they will still be safe if you do turn them at two and you have absolutely proper use. Would I personally do it? No, I would not.

14:13I don't think that it's time if we can use the limits of the car seat, which means the height, the weight, and then there's a head height limit rear facing. If we can max out those limits, get them to be in that position as long as possible, then we pretty much know for sure that when we turn them forward facing, it's time. They're ready. that's generally how I would talk about it and explain it to people because there there are some scary visuals that you can see on our feed or in other places of what happens to anyone's body just think about your own body if you're in a in a crash and you're you're obviously forward facing right your whole body is thrown forward we want the insides of our bodies to be as developed as possible to be able to handle whatever those crash forces are and the other thing just for like listeners, when you turn your kid forward facing, your life in the car completely changes as a driver, as a passenger.

15:16Your kid is now nonstop with you in the car. Like, you know, sometimes like, okay, we'll get them in the car. They're strapped in. They can't go anywhere. Like I can give them a soft sided book or maybe this toy, maybe they'll chill for at least five minutes before they start, you know, yelling at mom for something that goes away. When we turn kids forward facing, you get, you know, mom, mom, look, look, look. And the amount of times you're going to say, I can't, I'm driving. I have a 12 year old. I'm still saying that I can't, I can't look right now. I'm driving. Like at what point is this going to sink in your snacks?

15:49Nope. They know about them. Like just all the things, the privacy, right? You're going to sneak a sip of something or like you open the granola bar outside of the car so they wouldn't hear the wrapper, but you're trying to eat it inside. No, no, I'm sorry. You're sharing that. There's no more secret French fry order or like that all goes away. And the other thing is kids are usually more uncomfortable forward facing. They're in a recliner rear facing. Now you got them sitting straight up in a bar stool where they cannot reach the little, you know, thing on the bar stool that holds your feet. So their feet are just dangling.

16:30And now they're complaining about their feet bother or their legs bothering them. And it's like, I didn't have this rear facing. So those are some of the things that we encourage people to think about beyond just like the safety factors, which are obviously very considerable. There's also some sanity factors that like we want to warn moms about before they move kids from that rear facing to forward facing.

16:51Michelle Pratt:So about the feet part you just said, what do you say when someone's like, but their feet are all, you know, when they're backwards, rear facing, the argument many times is to turn them because of the foot space. What do you say about that? Yeah, I mean, you could, depending on who you're talking to is kind of the level of how I would say that, you know, if you're a certain family member has said it 400 times, you don't know any other way to get it into their head. It's like, I'd rather a broken leg than a broken skull. I mean, I know that's terrible to say, but it's like, you know, that can be the truth.

17:30And sometimes people need to hear that. The reality is we don't see broken legs in rear facing crashes. The legs kind of fall back into the shell of that turtle shell of the car seat like we talked about, where they're kind of encased in it. Have we seen how kids sit and how they move their bodies and the weird contortions they get into? I think a lot of times we take our adult view of what would be uncomfortable for us to sit in for long periods of time, and we apply that to kids, right? Right. So a kid sitting in a rear facing recliner with their legs just either dangling over the side, straight up, crisscross, whatever is comfortable for them.

18:12We may not like that for an extended period of time, but they're perfectly fine. They're happy as can be. Their hip flexors are still working. Exactly. Right. They don't have trouble getting on and off the floor like we do, you know. So we can't put like our own adult views of positioning on to kids. no matter what, once their kids pass the end, like the edge of the car seat, they're always going to be past the edge of the car seat, right? So I a lot of times have parents saying, well, is the infant seat outgrown because their legs are getting close to the edge of the car seat? No. Your legs are always going to, from here on out, the legs are going to grow.

18:51They're always going to hang over the edge of the car seat. And I just, we don't hear kids complaining about their legs in car seats until they turn forward facing. So interesting.

19:04Michelle Pratt:You know what can be one of the hardest parts of motherhood? It's not always the sleepless nights or even the toddler meltdowns. Sometimes it's just realizing that you don't have the right people around you who get it, who want to see the joy in motherhood, who lean a little bit crunchy, love learning, and who are always asking themselves, is whatever topic the actual right parenting choice or just today's cultural norm? And that's exactly why I created the mom club on Patreon, because I wanted a space for like-minded moms. I wanted a community of moms who think like that alongside of me. It's not a hostile Facebook group or a bunch of random advice.

19:50Michelle Pratt:It's for real conversations between like-minded supportive moms. You get the full episodes of the podcast, no cuts, no edits. We go so much deeper. You get 15 to 30 minutes of every single episode and you get them two weeks early and you get to be a part of my monthly book club, meet other moms who instantly feel like friends and just feel less alone. Come join us inside the mom club. Head to learningtomompodcast.com slash join. Of course, that's in the show notes below in case you forget. And what would you say is, I know there's not a specific age because of course every kid has different body dimensions, but what would you say is the general ballpark so that we as moms can be like looking into the future?

20:36Yeah. So, I mean, our general recommendation is age four plus to go forward

20:41Michelle Pratt:facing. Yeah. To wait until they're, you know, we max out the limits of your seats and some kids are going to max out before age four. That's fine. If you've maxed out the limits of your seats, height, weight, head height, they don't fit in one of those. One and done is what I tell everyone. You hit one of those indicators, then it's time to switch to, you know, whatever the next stage is. If they hit those in there under two, I would, you know, use caution. Before I would switch them, I would look at getting a bigger car seat, but that's very, that's very, that doesn't happen very often. So anytime, get as close to four as you can be sure that it isn't before age two.

21:20Now, what about common mistakes you see when parents are installing the car seat?

21:28Michelle Pratt:Not necessarily just for the first time, but I mean, sometimes you take it out because you're, you have to switch cars or whatever. Yeah. So what are common mistakes that you see when it comes to car seat installation? I mean, everyone's going to be like rolling their eyes when I say this, but people don't read the manual. You know, I think we all, like we said, we buy the car seat and we think, okay, how hard can it be? I'm going to stick it in here. I'm going to attach it in what, oh, I see these lower anchor things hanging out. I'm going to stick these into the places that I think they go. I think reading the manual is, you know, relatively essential because this is a life-saving device.

22:03So you may throw out some other manuals that you get. Like I just got my new Vitamix and I was like, eh. you know, whatever. But this has a little bit carries a little bit different weight. I think the biggest things generally are what we talked about a little bit moving to the next stage too soon. But when it goes when it comes to insulation, it's just not getting the seat in tight enough. We want it to move less than an inch when we check it at the right spot. And a lot of times it's just people attach it, but they don't tighten it. So that's one of the big things. I also think, and especially for the, for listeners, rear facing the recline angle matters a lot.

22:41Let's talk about that. That's good. Yeah. You know, when we have, um, we first have our babies, as we talked about as well, they don't have neck control, right? So they can't hold their heads up on their own. So think about when they're able to sit, right. Or when you're able to hold them on your hip and they're pretty much able to hold their bodies up on their own. Now they have control. They can hold their own head up. When they can't do that, recline is even more important because we need to make sure that their heads stay back and that they don't kind of flop forward in the car seat because they won't be able to physically move it themselves.

23:14The great news is car seats have recline indicators to help know exactly what position they need to be in. So that is not a risk. So there's a, sometimes there's a bubble or a line or just, and then there's a lot of time, the footer that like drops out of the base of the seat, or, um, you can kind of with convertible seats, you can kind of like rotate it like a rocking chair a little bit to get it in the right recline, but making sure that your seat is installed tightly and then check the recline indicator to make sure that it's in the range that's required based on the stage that you're in is critically important.

23:50Michelle Pratt:In stage that you're in. So the recline will depend on your child's body dimensions, not their age and not your vehicle? Usually the, well, the recline range is going to be adjusted based on your vehicle and the seat slope. And I don't want to get super technical here, but you know, the, the car seats are made with ranges to accommodate vehicles that have different ways that the seat you're sitting on angles. So you want to check it on flat ground because obviously most of them have a bubble indicator and you know just like any level if you switch the ground or the level that you're working off of it's going to change where that bubble goes so yes just the when you install it there is going to be something either in your manual and on the side of the seat that says some have age ranges zero to three months it has to be this bubble has to be in this spot where this line has to be in the spot others just give you kind of ranges.

24:55The line has to be at this level for the whole time you're using the seat. Or it can be here for this time and here after this time. It's not complicated. You just need to read what it is for your seat and just get it in the right location. Okay. That probably sounded a lot more complicated than it is. I think the number one thing is just understand how your car seat reclines. If you can just figure that out, there's on infant seats, it's like I said, usually a footer that drops like a piece of plastic, essentially that comes out of the base of the seat that you can put at various levels on a convertible seat.