How to Help Your Baby Talk, Babble and Sign with Wee Talkers | Ep. 101

0:00There's a lot of pressure on parents to have their kids meet milestones and like be really good at everything. And I think that out of that comes an increased pressure that we inadvertently place on kids. And so when we say, what's this, say this, and we're kind of like quizzing them, it's totally good intentions. You want to know what they know, but it actually gives the opposite effect. And it oftentimes makes kids shut down, especially if they can't yet. do those things. And it also just kind of stifles the conversation. Hey, mom friend, welcome to the learning to mom podcast. This is the only podcast that grows with you.

0:42So if you're new here, let me give you the tea. First off. Hi. Hello. Welcome. My name is Layla, your official mom friend. And I'm right here next to you, figuring out this motherhood thing with you. Season one was all about pregnancy and birth. And now season two is about your baby's first year of life. And then season three coming out next month is all about your baby's second year of life. So come listen to the episodes that apply to your life phase and stay a while here. You get the answers to all your gazillion first time mom questions. As I ask experts all our questions and seek tangible information.

1:21Please note that the content present in this podcast is designed for general educational purposes only. You're going to get a lot out of this week's episode, MomFriend, so let's get right into it. Hi, Carly. Hi, Katie. Welcome to the Learning to Mom podcast. Hi, Layla. Thanks so much for having us. I'm so excited for our conversation. Can you guys, for those who may not know you guys, do you mind introducing yourself and just sharing what made you start WeTalkers? Yeah, we'd love to. We're super excited to be here today. I'm Katie, and I am a pediatric speech language pathologist and so is Carly.

1:56We have six kids between us. Carly lives in Vancouver and I live in Tempe, Arizona. So we actually met on Instagram, which is kind of wild and just really like aligned and WeTalkers went from there. But before WeTalkers, we were practicing in all different sorts of settings, early intervention, in people's homes, hospitals, schools, clinics, private practice. So we've gotten a taste of a lot, but our jam is birth through five. I don't know. We just feel like super lucky to be able to do it. But We Talkers started. Carly, you want to chat about that a little bit where that came from? Yeah, sure.

2:37So we work with a lot of toddlers who are late talkers and we would be in our therapy sessions and thinking like, gosh, we really think all parents could benefit from this information, not just these kids who are coming in for one-on-one therapy. We felt like people didn't really even know about our profession. And we wanted to get the word out about the importance of language development and talking and singing and reading with your baby right from the start. And so we love that you want to talk about, you know, kind of that birth to one year age range, because I think people usually think of language development starting when a child starts speaking, but really there's all these little amazing mini milestones happening along the way as your child grows and develops.

3:19And I think we're going to dive into that today. Yes. That's actually like the perfectly way there, Carly. What are the, like, kind of give a timeline as to what first time parents can expect for communication, like at what age those mini milestones start happening? Yes, there's a lot. So I'll just kind of touch on a few through the different age ranges. So from birth to three months, you're going to see your baby like quiet or smile when you talk and you're going to see them alert to different sounds in their environment. And these are kind of like the first little building blocks that we see with communication.

4:00And then they're going to start cooing, which is kind of those vowel sounds like, ooh, ah, things like that. At four to six months, we're going to see them starting to vocalize different vowel sounds. And you'll see that getting like a bit more complex. They're going to look towards like objects of interest and start like being more aware of their environment. And they'll even do really cute little things like blow raspberries. They're getting used to, yeah, it's like play. They're getting used to like, wait, where's my mouth? Where's my lips? What happens when I vocalize? They're kind of like learning all of that through playing around with sound.

4:38So it's definitely something we want to encourage and foster. And then as they grow a little bit more into that seven, 10, nine month range, this is something that is on a lot of parents' radar, but it's babbling. So they'll be like, ba, ba, ba, ma, ma, ma. So you'll usually see that around then. They'll start looking at you when you call their name, which is so cool. It's kind of like that first sign of like, oh my gosh, like they understand what I'm saying. which is really incredible to see. You're like, I'm pretty sure they're a genius. Like it's so cool to just start doing that. And then you're going to start seeing more gestures, which is something that always comes before first word.

5:16So things like reaching their arms to be picked up by 10 to 12 months, they'll start pointing and waving and like showing you little objects, which is really exciting. They start trying to copy sounds you make leading up to that 12 month mark is when they usually start saying like a word or two around that age. So pretty exciting. It's really fascinating how, you know, like hear English speakers, that this would be just applicable to any country, like before they really have language. And I know we're going to talk a little bit about babbling, but even like there are studies that show that like, depending on what language the babies around, their babbles are different.

5:58So their babbles consist of like the sounds that they hear. So, you know, English speaking babies babbles are going to sound different than another language, which is really cool. That is so freaking cool. And that was the first topic that I wanted to talk about was about babbling. And I guess, why is it important for babies to babble? How do we encourage them to babble? So usually babbling, it's a big range. It's between six to 10 months, which I think it's like one of our number one questions we get asked, like parents being really worried that their baby is, you know, seven months and not babbling yet, but it is a wide range of when they start to babble.

6:40So six to 10 months is what we expect. If you have a baby who's not babbling by the time they turn one, we would definitely recommend bringing it up with your pediatrician, because the reason that we keep an eye on it is because we know that kids who don't babble are like more prone to speech and language delays. And so they can receive early intervention sooner and get that support sooner, which makes a really big impact. So six to 10 months is what we look for. And like Carly said, that babbling is going to become a little bit more complex. So at first it's going to be just like one consonant and one vowel.

7:13and as they progress it's going to be a little bit more varied the other thing that babbling tells us is that the sounds that they use to babbles like if they use a lot of m's or they use a lot of b's those will be the sounds that are in their first word usually in the first couple first words um so that's neat to look for you know if a baby has a lot of da da da sounds then they're probably more likely going to say da da than mama first right because that d sound is in there. That's what we come in and we start going, right.

7:49Just really work on that. And no, it's like the best to hear your kids say that. So we get why moms want that sound. So yeah, that's, what's typical. And then some things that you can do to help encourage it. If you have a baby, who's not babbling a ton, or you're just kind of wanting to work on it. This sounds like really simple, but they just need more opportunities to babble. One thing that we recommend is being face-to-face with your baby when possible. And that doesn't mean like you're going to carve out time to work on babbling. It means that like when you do a diaper change, you're going to be face-to - face.

8:22When they're like on a blanket, you can be face-to-face. When you're dressing them, just think about when you are face-to-face because we all have mirror neurons, which is basically like a cell that, that helps us imitate when we see somebody else do something, then that is how we, um, kind of like the basis of imitation. And so if they can see the way that your mouth's moving and they can see your expression, then they're more likely to try to imitate that sound. Um, so using what we call parent ease, which is kind of like the natural way that we talk to babies. It's kind of that like rising inflection.

9:00I'm trying to think about the Miss Rachel voice. Yeah, it's like the Miss Rachel voice and maybe a little bit toned down if you're just, you know, without a camera, but similar, very similar. And then you want to imitate their babbles. So when they babble, if you can imitate that back, what you're teaching them is that back and forth of communication, which is what language is, right? We're like sending messages back and forth to one another. And it teaches them the basis of imitation. so they start to learn what imitation is and then the hope is that they will start to copy you okay so you want to actually mimic the sounds that they're already making as opposed to introducing like if they're not like yeah yeah so you want to like obviously use real words and stuff with them but when they're playing around with their voice when you imitate what they did they like kind of understand, oh, they acknowledge what I said, like this has meaning and it encourages them to try more.

10:05Okay. You know what this made me think of, of the whole babbling thing is all those videos that you see of twins like babbling back and forth. Do those know anything about like, is that real? Are they like really talking to each other? Yeah. I mean, I think they understand each other, like for sure. I think that they totally understand each other, but we do know that twins are kind of more prone to language delays just oh weird yeah so uh we have a lot of twins and and i mean a lot of twins don't need speech therapy but there are a lot of twins that do need speech therapy but i think they rely on each other a lot to get their ones and needs met you know that makes actually like a lot of sense yeah a lot of sense i relied i didn't start talking until i was four really that's like the thing of the family was that i didn't start talking to us for, I had two older siblings who just talked for me.

10:53And then the joke is that I just haven't shut up since. I'm like, that is so fascinating because talking seems like your thing, you know, you're so great at podcasting. You're just taking it all in. Yeah. So most people hear me talk about truly free laundry detergent and yes, it's amazing. And the only laundry detergent we use, but what a lot of people don't realize is they make everything when it comes to cleaning products. And we have slowly swapped all of our cleaning products over to their stuff. You literally won't catch me buying from any other cleaning brand because this stuff works. And I don't have to worry about the chemicals I'm spraying around my home, what we're breathing in, what my baby's crawling all over.

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12:14I've slowly swapped out all of our products with Truly Free over the past year, and now there's nothing in my cleaning cabinet that isn't from them. If I have to spend my own hard-earned money on cleaning supplies, I'm spending it at Truly Free. And you can get 30 % off by being a listener of the podcast by going to the link in the episode show notes below using that link and then the code LEARNING2MOM. I cannot wait for you to try them. now okay so my first question on the google doc you know is the baby babbling thing but then what you guys were talking about when you first just started talking about baby vocabulary development and stuff was like actually the things that come before baby babbling so let's maybe take a step back and you were like reading to your baby in this like singing to your baby so before they're in the babbling age what are the things that we needed to be doing before six months to encourage baby communication?

13:11Sure. Yeah. One thing we recommend for all parents from day one is talking, singing, reading with, and creating opportunities for independent play, which when they're really little is just, you know, having a safe space on the floor where they can kind of explore little toys. It doesn't have to be, you know, they're not playing like pretend play or anything, but you know, those first levels of play. So yeah, with talking, it was like Katie was saying before during your daily routines and the things you're doing with your child anyway, just explaining to them what is happening. And that's helping to build their understanding of language, which also comes before they'll talk.

13:47We have to have the idea formed and know what we're saying before we're going to start saying that on our own. So if you're a mom or dad, who's a little bit more quiet and you're like, wait, I don't know what to say to this little baby. Who's not yet responding back. Like they're just kind of sitting there. I don't know even what to say. One tip we have is think of your five senses. So what is your baby feeling? What are they hearing? Like feeling on their skin? Like if you're changing a diaper and you're like, okay, I'm going to wipe your bum now. Oh, this feels a little cold. So you're labeling what they're experiencing with the word and that is going to help promote their language and communication development.

14:26And then reading, this can be really simple in the beginning, just spending maybe 15 minutes a day. It doesn't have to be right before bed. A lot of people do it as a part of a bedtime routine, but really whenever it works for you. If you think about it, you know, your child's hearing on a typical day, they're hearing their words in their environment. But when you open up a book, it's like opening up a whole new world. You know, your baby who's itty bitty hasn't ever been to like the zoo or seen all these different types of trucks. So just hearing words from books is helping build their brain connections.

14:58And even if they don't understand what it is, it doesn't matter. It's really, really great for their language development, reading, and then singing. So you don't have to have like a great voice. You don't need to be super musical to do this. You can remember songs, you know, maybe from your childhood, even like Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star, Wheels on the Bus. We really love singing for a number of reasons. Marty in the USA. Exactly. Exactly. I know. Whatever you're feeling. so many great examples of that on like tiktok and instagram of moms just singing you know their favorite song and having fun with their baby so a few follow-ups about all of that so at what age do we really need to be like oh i can't listen to that song anymore in my car you know like i mean we all have different parenting choices and decisions but like you know when there was a newborn i didn't care if i was watching burgerton with her on my chest she didn't know right or when I was listening to some rap, which I don't know why I said that.

15:56I don't listen to rap, but anything, but you could. Yeah. Right. So many songs, I mean, I mean, I could say for my kids, they were picking up on it, maybe more like three or something. Wouldn't you say Katie? My kids were more like two, I think. But like my kids were really sensitive to all the, I mean, Are You My Mother? Do you remember that book? Are You My Mother from Your Childhood? Oh yeah. Milo loves them. Yeah. Yeah. No, I, my oldest was like 18 months and I had to like hide it in the closet because he would just burst into tears when he couldn't find his mom. They're just like highly sensitive.

16:30Sensitive. Yeah. So they picked on it earlier. Yeah. That is a really good point. And I think that's with so many things with parenting. It's like you judge for yourself, like you'll know Layla, like you'll know. Okay. Like we're not going to listen to this. Yeah. yeah okay with her and I think that is a really good point Katie of like you're so family dependent mine we're older it's so family dependent and yeah you know a lot of people yeah don't mind it's a personal decision but I'm saying you'll notice when she's like picking up and like mommy what's that matter okay um I know you guys talk so much about baby sign like oh wait wait no before I asked that okay when you guys were talking about actually Carly I think it was when you were talking about the diaper changes and you were like, Ooh, that's cold.

17:15And I remember even the first, like kind of, it was like sounds that Mila said first, it was like, and like, so that comes after babbling. And do we just encourage that by just making all those fun sounds all the time? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Make, make the fun sound. So those are going to be easier to say than a word. So if you think about it and this relates to sign language as well, Speech is a very complex skill. Next time you start speaking, think of all the little fine movements that your lips, tongue, jaw are making, plus your vocalizing, plus coordinating the breathing. Like we don't think about it, but it's very complex.

17:53So our little ones aren't going to come out the gate just speaking in words that are fully intelligible. So it's really great and something that we would be super happy to see with little ones. so that is like an important milestone and I guess the reason that I'm thinking of that is because I have a friend a good friend whose toddler was delayed and that was like the first thing they worked on was just like increasing the amount of yum or yeah all those yeah and they still like communicate meaning too you know like you know what they mean when they when they use those sounds so and it builds up their confidence to try those harder words which is important for some little ones.

18:38Yeah. Just since we're talking about someone being delayed, like, is it when they hit 12 months that then it's kind of like you could be delayed or can you be diagnosed as delayed? Clearly I was just, my mom was like, it doesn't matter.

18:58Is it possible to seek help and treatment before you turn a year? Yeah, for sure. Some baby are born with disabilities that they know are like these, you're going to have developmental delays. And so early intervention starts right out the gate for, for those kids. And then, you know, some kids are typically developing in all areas except for language. And you notice like, Oh, they didn't really babble on time. And Oh, they aren't really saying like many sounds and Oh, like their friends are putting two words together, but they're not using words yet. And like, you know, those are all signs that they could possibly benefit from support.

19:37So we just recommend any time that you're feeling concerned that you would reach out to your pediatrician or a local speech therapist. And, and maybe the answer will be like, no, they're good. They're, you know, within the range or, or come back in three months and let's check again. But keeping that concern to yourself is not our recommendation because I think that it creates a lot of worry. it also creates a lot of like you feel really alone in it and you don't have to be alone in it, nor are you expected to be a speech therapist to your kid. Okay. That's good. All right. Back to sign language.

20:11Why do you encourage using sign language? Okay. So just as we were saying with speech being a very complex skill, motor movements, like movements with the hands are going to be a little bit easier than actually saying the word. So it can kind of be like a bridge towards communication. And I want to be really clear. It's not essential that you teach your baby, baby sign language. It's optional, you know, kids all over the world learn to speak without doing it. It can be helpful in terms of decreasing some of that frustration, even like picking a handful of signs. You don't have to be like, okay, we're becoming fluent in sign language.

20:51Like you can just learn a few. Um, and we can, we can let you know what are, what we find are helpful for signs. Um, but yeah, it just can help a child learn that what they do has meaning. I'm sending that communication message and it's easier than saying the word initially. Right. And also, wouldn't you say Carly that it like also really helps understanding. So like they're having like two modalities. So if you say like banana, if you say banana and you sign banana, then they're hearing and seeing that word represented, which I mean, so when you give a direction, like put your shoes on, it's like they have two ways of knowing what you're talking about.

21:35So even kids who aren't signing back yet, they just, it's helpful for their understanding, even as like a toddler. So at what age do you like start introducing these signs? So it's really up to families. Some families start as soon as they're born, they're signing like milk when they're feeding or they're signing like all done when they're done with a diaper change or bath. But some families wait until close to like their first birthday or like when they're starting solids. I feel like mealtime is kind of like when families sort of are like, oh yeah, signs. so it's really up to you yeah more yeah right yeah so I think you know anytime that you want to it's never really too late or too early to start but they don't normally start signing back to you until like 9 to 15 months usually okay depending on how like consistent yeah depending on how consistent you've been with it like you can't just show them at nine months like three time and be like, why aren't they doing it?

22:37It has to be kind of like a part of your routine. So for families that really want to teach their child some signs, it's actually more about like the parent remembering to do it. So maybe like put a sticky note on the wall behind their high chair or something like that of like, these are the signs we're practicing during mealtime or, you know, somewhere that kind of sparks your memory because it takes a lot of repetition before they'll start doing it on their own. Right. What signs are like the easiest to start with or that you would recommend? Yeah. So we really love using signs that kind of are helpful for their day to day, like useful signs.

23:13So like, I think I said, bath more all done, open milk diaper. But we also really like signs that just your child shows interest in. So if they're really into cars, like toy cars, car, or like baby or light. My oldest was like really into like the lights turning them on and off. So it was like first word was the sign for light. Ball. So just if they're interested in something that can be fun and motivating for them. So kind of a mix between like functional, useful things and things that they seem interested in that are fun science for them. And if a child is hard of hearing or deaf, like that might be the goal, that they are fluent in ASL, in which case you would want to really be learning from deaf educators and have that on board.

24:06This is just like a bridge to spoken words. And we're not really picky on things. You know, this is a sign for cracker. If they signed cracker like this, we wouldn't be like, no, no, it's cracker. You know, it's, it's just like if they said, bah for ball, we wouldn't say, oh no, get that L on there. Like it's just, they're learning. So one of my friends was graced with never having experienced bad acne before. So the other night she tells me, I just don't really understand why people haven't figured out why they have bad acne yet. And I about lost my S H I T. Now I know what my friend was trying to say.

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26:17You don't have to click all around their website to find it. And if you use the link that's in the show notes with the code advocate 10, you'll get 10 % off. Seriously, go click on it now. So you don't forget. I love you, mom friend. That is all. I have this question for you. So I'm just going to ask it now. You said that it's okay if they start signing something else for ball to keep that gesture. But what about with the verbal words? For example, I'm just going to throw myself under the bus. I don't think I should be doing this, but I do. She says nana instead of banana. So it is now a nana in our house, and we don't correct that.

26:56What are your thoughts on saying not the correct pronunciation? You're not throwing yourself under the bus. That's totally fine. Yeah. Because I have heard otherwise, actually. I'm very surprised that you said that. I've heard that you should say or be like, oh, banana? You want a banana? I mean, I guess that would be the most professional recommendation. But to us, it's like, okay, it's one word. It's not really a big deal. If you were going around all day being like, daddy booty nana, Like we'd be like, okay, like use the words. But I think it's very normal for families to kind of have some little fun words like that or little things like that their kids said.