How to Teach Your Child Independent Play (Without Feeling Guilty) with JillybeansNYC | Ep. 119

0:00We often have a view of what we think play is supposed to be as adults. and often what play is to our child looks different. Hey, mom friend, I'm Layla, and this is the Learning to Mom podcast, where we're growing, learning, and in motherhood together. Every week, I sit down with experts who help us get clarity on the big motherhood questions from sleep to feeding to navigating the toddler stage, all while keeping things practical and encouraging. So whether you're folding laundry, driving, or going on a hot mom walk with your earbuds in, I'm so glad to have you here. Let's jump right in. Each guest and expert comes with their own background and perspective.

0:45So please note that the content presented in this podcast is designed for general educational purposes only. Jill, welcome to the Learning to Mom podcast. Hi, I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for having me. I'm very, very excited to talk about today's conversation as we were talking about before we hit record. Could you tell us a little bit about yourself and what Jilly Beans NYC is all about? Yeah, so I am a play and parenting coach, a play expert, an early childhood educator. I'm a mom to a preschooler, and I actually have another baby coming. So I don't know when this will air in proximity to when we're recording, but she's coming this fall.

1:25So I will be a mom of two very soon. You know, my approach to play is really about empowering parents that are feeling overwhelmed. And play is a really big part of that. I feel like it is the best tool that we have to support our child through every stage of their development and through every area that we're hoping to see them develop in. So sometimes I think we get very lost in that being physical milestones and like that's one piece of it. But play is also our greatest support for social emotional growth and for critical thinking and problem solving and building frustration tolerance. A big part of my approach is really using simple play prompts or invitations to play to kind of kickstart children's play, but that are low lift for adults to help kind of bring the joy back and to make parenting feel a little less overwhelming and a little more manageable.

2:24In addition to the work that I do with families individually, because I do private coaching, I have a low-cost membership. I'm sure we'll talk about that. But I also do a lot of work on the brand side. So sometimes that comes in the form of consulting on product development for toys and brands that are in the parenting space. Sometimes that comes in the form of speaking on play and parenting at large corporations for employees that work there and kind of helping support them in their parenting journey. So a lot of different things that I do, but I would say play is kind of at the center of all of it.

3:01So, so cool that you do all of that other stuff, because obviously I just know you from your Instagram account. So it's really cool that you could do like product testing and like speaking to those corporations and stuff. That's Very, very cool. I'm curious what your take is on play versus just doing life, because I think at a certain age, I guess in my perspective, and I'm curious if I'm asking you, the expert, I'm like, is there really a difference between playing with her and her helping me sort the laundry? Okay, so I love this question because I think that we often have a view of what we think play is supposed to be as adults.

3:41And often what play is to our child looks different. So it's not always going to come in the form of like quietly stacking blocks, right? Or pretending to rock the baby or playing in the play kitchen. That is a piece. I want people to really think of play more as exploring and engaging. and there are so many ways that we can play and explore and engage with our kids and there are so many ways that they can do that with the world around them. Play really is the way that our kids make sense of their day-to-day experiences and what life is all about. So especially because I know today's episode we're really focusing on that 12 to 24 month period of development, I think that's a place especially where toddlers love to help.

4:29They want to be invited into our world. They're often more interested in what feels to us as mundane, like daily tasks that we like have to do for them. That's a really exciting thing to be a part of. And they want to be invited into that. So I would say, yes, it could come in the form of we're sitting on the floor and we're playing with trucks. That's one thing it could be. But it's really about connection and engagement, and that can come in all kinds of things. So some of my favorite ways to engage children this age that we're talking about would be inviting them to prepare a meal with us in their toddler tower or inviting them to drop the laundry into the hamper or into the washing machine.

5:15or depending where your child is in that 12 to 24 month range, maybe they're helping you sort the laundry and they're matching the socks that match, right? I think there are so many ways that our kids want to be involved in the world around them. And that for them is very much playful, exciting, entertaining, engaging. It doesn't necessarily look the way we imagine it to. Yeah, that's such a good point. Can I tell you something straight up? The book club with the mom club besties is honestly my favorite part of the mom club. We pick a parenting book every month. And no, they're not dry, boring books.

5:55They're good. Funny, even. Every mom brings her own experience and her own approach to the book club meetings at the end of the month. We all come together wanting the same thing. To be the best mom, wife, friend, and daughter we can be. And looking for support in doing so. We talk about the ideas in the book and how it's applicable and if we agree or disagree or if parts of the book annoyed us. But we also talk about life. We've celebrated births, engagements, moves, all the things with one another. In one book club meeting, a mom told us all via Zoom, you guys are my people. And I felt that to my core.

6:36Some moms come without even reading the book because they just want the conversation and the connection, and they still add so much to the conversation. It's where I truly get to become Mom Runs With You, which is why it's my favorite part, in addition to getting to read, because I love reading. But seriously, it's my favorite part of the whole thing. I look forward to it every month. Come find your people and join the best book club, in my humble opinion, at learningtomompodcast.com slash join. As always, the links in the show notes below for you. Talking about independent play specifically, what does independent play actually look like realistically in terms of how long or what to expect for a 12 to 24 month old?

7:18Yeah, so independent play is a huge part of the work that I do. I'd say both with private clients and also in my membership, a lot of the tools I'm giving are to help people support their children on their independent play journey. And a big part of this that I just want to touch on before we get into your question is that to me, independent play is not only one of the most beneficial things that we can do for our child, but it also is one of the most beneficial things that we can do for ourselves as parents. I personally, as someone who freelances, I count on those pockets of independent playtime to get work done and to take care of things that I need to or to get a minute back to myself, which ultimately makes me a better mother to my child.

8:04I think there's often a lot of guilt that surrounds it. Like we feel bad, like we're like doing it to our kids. And I feel like we have to reframe that and instead think about it like this is a gift that we give to both our child and ourselves. So I always like to kind of start there. It's tricky because some of this is going to look different, like most things in parenting. Every child is unique, right? Every child is growing on their own trajectory. Every child has their own unique personality approach. There's so many things that inform everything in child rearing. But right now we're kind of focusing on play.

8:38So there are going to be children that just more naturally can play on their own for longer periods of time. time, right? The same way that some of us as adults have an easier time sticking with one activity for a longer period of time than something else, right? So there's not necessarily like one hard and fast rule. It is going to change by child. And a lot of this also might depend on do they get a lot of practice doing this or is this a skill that's totally new to them, right? You can start kind of introducing independent play from birth. Now, if you're hearing this and you never have. That doesn't mean like hope is lost.

9:16You can also do it at any time. But I think that will make a difference because if this is something that's sort of been ingrained into your child's routine, it may be easier for them to play for a longer stretch than a child who's never done this before. Right. So we always want to start small. But I would say, generally speaking, most children's attention spans fall roughly between one to three minutes times year of their age. OK, so that's the average. It sounds daunting because it's like, OK, so what does that mean? Like I can expect three minutes like that's all I get. No, because part of what I support families with is how do we expand upon that?

9:57How do we build upon that? Right. But it's helpful, I think, for parents to know that as a starting point, because it really gives us an idea of what an age appropriate expectation is for a toddler. Now, when I say that, that's an average, which means some kids can automatically play for longer stretches than that, and some are actually going to be even less than that. So if you're listening to this and you feel like my toddler does not stay with something for more than 30 seconds, it's possible that that's kind of within the range of what's developmentally typical. What I think is reassuring is there are a lot of things that we can do to build those play skills and expand upon them.

10:35But when we think about that as a starting point, I think it gives us a helpful idea of what a reasonable expectation is. So if you have never done this before and you want to start with something with your 15-month-old child, let's say, we probably want to think about for a successful experience for both of you, then maybe we go into it for that first time. I'm thinking this is going to be like two to five minutes where I step back. And then from there, if they're going, let them go. Like, you know, it's not to say that that's like a hard and fast rule of what it will be, but I think it also sets both us send our child up for success if we go in thinking, OK, day one, more than five minutes might be a lot to ask of them.

11:16Yeah. Oh, I'm this is so good. Can you just speak about when your kid is independently what you do or what you don't do? Yes. Love this question. So I think a really good reframe for us as parents in terms of our role in play, because again, coming back to that piece of like, I feel guilty having my child play on their own. I feel neglectful. Like this is something many, many parents feel. And frankly, like I do this for work and I still understand that impulse, even knowing how important it is and that it's a gift and all that stuff. I think if we can instead kind of reframe for ourselves what our role is in our child's play, it can help with some of that.

11:57So I like to tell parents and caretakers to kind of think of themselves as the facilitator and not the entertainer. And I think that's a really important distinction. Like we are not the cruise ship director. I'm not here every moment to make sure that you have something that you need to do in front of you every second. It's not that. But it is about how am I offering support? And I think sometimes the way that we think we need to support is either that, right? Like that we have to constantly have something out or be involved or that we have to constantly be down on the floor doing it with them, right?

12:31I like to reframe it more as, no, there's actually a lot of other ways we facilitate our child's play. So one of those things is in curating the environment. It is not about like a Pinterest perfect play space that we're working in. I live in a city. We're in an apartment. We don't have a designated play space per se, but my daughter is an excellent independent player. And a lot of that comes from not that it's this perfect Montessori shelfy situation, but that it's mindfully curated. So what does that mean? It means that are our children's toys stored at a height that they can reach without us, right?

13:06We don't think about that a lot of the time. A lot of the time we have stuff kind of tucked away in the closet because it's like neater. It doesn't look as disorganized. But then if we want our kids to play on their own and they're getting going in their flow, right? And then they realize like, oh, I want my superhero figures. Oh, wait, those are up there. I can't get them. Mom, right? Immediately now we've broken it. So a lot of it has to do with how are we storing things? Can our kids reach them? Are they in bins that are open where they can see the contents that are inside or clear? When I do place space revamp like consultations with clients, a lot of the time it's about just replacing the bins they have with bins and trays that are clear.

13:47And then your kid sees what's in there. Right. And then it immediately they can expand upon their own play. OK, I'm kind of I'm building this. Oh, I see my animals. OK, now I'm going to bring them over. Right. So these are the kind of the connections that our kids are able to make when something is mindfully curated. We also want to think about, in terms of facilitation, the toys that are available to our kids. Are they open-ended in nature, meaning do they have a lot of play possibilities, or is this like a one-and-done where I press a button and it lights up and like, okay, now I'm bored? We want to have things that offer a lot of different options because they're going to get played with more and in many different ways.

14:27Right. So that's how we expand the amount of play that's happening. We also want to be thinking about as facilitators that we're like active observers in our child's play, meaning when they're engaged in something for like a couple of minutes, whether that's with a toy or maybe to your point from earlier, it's a household task. Like maybe your child right now, if you have a toddler, they're likely in a very schema driven phase of their play. And for people that are not familiar with schemas, it has to do with like patterns in the brain. So all kids, whatever their interest, wherever they live, are going through these same patterns in their play.

15:06And in toddlerhood, that often looks like if you have a kid who's like constantly throwing their toys and it's like making you crazy. They're not playing with it the way they're like, quote, supposed to. They're throwing it. That's actually a schema. That's trajectory. So from a learning perspective, their brain is developing the patterns to understand gravity, to understand force, to understand what happens when something goes from high to low. Because every child's going through it, it becomes almost like an obsession, which is where that thing comes in, the repetitiveness of it, where parents start to get crazy because they're like, you keep throwing it.

15:41And I keep saying, don't throw it. And you keep throwing it. if we think about it like they actually can't not, then we can reframe as parents as my child needs to throw. I'm not going to let them throw X because that's dangerous. I'm not going to let them throw their food because we're not doing that. But how can I offer an opportunity where their body and their brain does this thing that it actually needs to do? So this is where our role as observers becomes really important at any age, but particularly with toddlers, because play is often not looking like what we think it's going to. It often feels destructive.

16:18It often feels like we're not building the tower. We're just knocking it over. That's also a schema. So I think that when parents go into this role of being more observers, they pick up on these patterns and then they say, huh, OK, it seems like my daughter really needs to dump. I'm not going to let her dump every book off of her bookshelf, but what can I offer? And this is where play comes in, because we can offer a more appropriate and safe experience that also helps them take care of a developmental need. So I think for parents, being an observer and being a facilitator are kind of our number one jobs.

16:54At the same time, being an observer also helps with things like just noticing what is my child into right now? Like what's their play style at the moment? Are they super into imaginative play? Are they really into like physical play and jumping and running and, you know, that right now, like that's what's keeping their attention. Is there a certain character that they're really into? And how can we use that to then create prompts that are going to interest them? Because every child is going to stay more engaged with their play when it follows their current interests, the same as you and me. So I think that's more our role.

17:31It's more about paying attention to those things so then we can put out or organize our space to best serve our child so then they can do their job, which is to play. So good. So good. So if someone is used to always giving their child like constant interaction, what's a gentle way to, you know, no, you're going to play by yourself. Mommy's going to make dinner or something like how do we start that? It's such a good question. I think the first thing I would want to stress is that connection, well, it's vital to parenting, period, right? But it's vital to independent play being successful. But I think we often get confused as parents that connection has to happen with us playing with our child in that way, right?

18:20And I like to think of it instead as it's connective to be paying such close attention to your child's interests that you know exactly what prompt is going to excite them. It is connective to spend time with your child doing other things outside of playing with them. Play can be a part of the connection, but it's not the only connection. And I think that when we think about it like that, we can fill our child's cup in other ways, which makes the playing on their own a little easier. So I would say to a parent that really wants to start with this for the first time, starting small, right? Like we talked about earlier, Let's set both you and your child up for success.

19:01Maybe the first day out with this first couple of days, even we're hoping to get five minutes, five minutes where we step back. So if we're doing that, one thing I would say to that parent is make sure that you're filling that connection cup throughout the day leading up to that time, whatever that means. So maybe that means you read together before. Maybe you played together earlier and now you're stepping out. Maybe you prepared that snack together or went for a walk, whatever it is. There's so many ways that we can connect with our kids. And it doesn't have to only be sitting on the floor playing with them and next to them.

19:38So I think that's number one. We want to make sure that cup is full because it's going to make it a lot easier to then step back. The other thing I would want parents to know, and this one I feel like always blows clients minds, is that we often have this idea that independent play means that we're like, We're in the other room. And it doesn't necessarily. It could, especially if this is new to them. But young children feel more secure getting engaged and flowing with their play when they can see you or hear you. Now, that doesn't mean that you're in it on the floor doing it, but maybe you're setting them up in a creative way that isn't just thinking about play happening in the playroom.

20:19Maybe that means you're setting them up next to where you're preparing dinner in the kitchen. Maybe that means you're setting them up in a small area of your home office. You know, the days that my daughter is home with me are her most productive and engaged play sessions, even now at four, where she is OK kind of going off in the other room and doing her thing. But it's always going to be better if she's nearby. So it often looks like I'm sitting here like the way I'm with you. And she's a couple of feet back doing what she's doing. And she may come over and check in and show me. Oh, really cool.

20:52And then she goes back to what she does and I go back to what I do. So I think reframing where we are in the space is really helpful for people. And then lastly, we should be talking to our kids, whatever their age, I'm talking like from infancy, but about transitions before they happen. Always, always, whatever that means. So in this case, this is a transition, which means we talk about it before we do it and we get down on their level and we say a lot of the time, mommy and so and so. we play together. And that's super fun. I love playing with you. And sometimes I have to do work, whatever that means.

21:29Could be your job. It could be work around the house or it could be sometimes mama needs a minute. Mama needs a break so I can be the best mama to you. Right. Mama has to pee. Right. Whatever it is, fill in the blank, insert yours. And we say, and your job, your really important job is to play and play is your work. And we kind of like create this environment, we want to empower them. Toddlers love to feel like they have an important job. They have an important role. And this shows us we trust their capability. You have so many good ideas. I can't wait to see what you do. We don't just like, all right, I'm leaving, right?

22:03Like we would with any other transition. And I also think utilize prompts. Like this is the whole crux of my membership is that I give you like 15 to 20 of them a month that you stuff around the house. But the idea is like most kids do need help getting started. So let's put out something super engaging to kind of get them going. And then we step back and let them do it. So I think it's a combination of all those things. But if someone had never done it before, I'd say to start with those. Interrupting this week's episode real quick for this week's segment of MomMail. If you're new here, this is the part of the show where I answer a listener submitted situation or scenario.

22:43Basically, you write in your tricky situation and I give you advice only a real mom friend would give. Here's the email we're answering this week. She says, Layla, before I ask my question, I wanted to say thank you for creating this podcast. I love it. I look forward to the episodes every Monday and I'm asking for the mom club membership for Christmas. So thank you for all you do to support us first time moms. I don't really know how to word this, but essentially I'm pregnant with my first and I feel extremely overwhelmed. Do you have any tips for not necessarily not feeling overwhelmed, but just tips you have for postpartum or motherhood in general?

23:19I'm hoping that maybe it'll just decrease my overwhelm if I have some tips in my back pocket. Thank you. Friend, first of all, congratulations on your pregnancy. I am so excited for you. Motherhood absolutely rocks on that same train of thought. Motherhood can rock if you allow it to. Obviously, there are some circumstances like postpartum depression, some baby blues, that's going to impact the way that you experience motherhood. But outside of that, so many moms, just from what I see, have a hard time with motherhood because I think they don't. It's not they don't allow it to be great. Like you just have to kind of decide that you're going to have a grateful heart and that it can be fun.

24:12You just kind of have to like accept it. My mom said something really great in the Q &A episode that her and I did at the start of this season where she said it is so great but you have to allow it to be great and I just resonate with that so so much. piece of advice that I want to give you is the bassinet goes on your husband's side of the bed. That is absolutely crucial. I have noticed that especially in postpartum and especially if you're breastfeeding, if you put the bassinet on your husband's side of the bed and they are in charge of, you know, baby wakes up. So both of you wake up. He wakes the baby up, changes their diaper, gets them ready to nurse, hands them to you.

24:55He gets to go back to bed, but you will nurse. And sometimes in the early days, nursing takes 30 to 45 minutes. I'm unfortunately not exaggerating. So he will go back to bed. But you will stay up and nurse, obviously. And then once you're done, you wake him back up. He'll change the baby again in case they've gone to the bathroom. And then you get to go back to sleep because your job is over. I think that there is a lot of resentment that comes when the bassinet is on mom's side of the bed. And I understand that that's like traditional because they may feel bad for waking up your husband. But like, I have so many freaking thoughts about this.

25:34And unless your husband is in a safety job, unless he's like a fighter pilot or even a semi truck driver who's covering long, long distances, like or a police officer, a firefighter, they can get up. Like, I don't care if he is a lawyer. I don't care if he has a really big work meeting in the morning. You have a job of keeping this baby alive and awake, and you are recovering from birth, which is not easy. As a first-time mom, you don't know that yet, but postpartum is really hard. You need as much sleep as possible. So then the bassinet being on his side of the bed and taking ownership in this task is going to give you more sleep.

26:20It's also going to make you feel less alone because he's in it with you. When it all falls on you, you're going to feel jealous. There's going to be resentment. It is not good. So my biggest tip is that the bassinet goes on his side of the bed. And quite honestly, so we did that with our first, just because where my side of the bed is, there wasn't room for the bassinet. So it just happened to get on his side of the bed. It was the best thing that ever accidentally happened to us. And now I don't shut up about that one piece of advice because it has made such a big difference. Then when I was even pregnant with number two, and you know, we're nearing the end.