Toddler Sleep: Transitioning to One Nap, Bedtime Battles, and Nightmares with Brittany Sheehan (12-24 month olds) | Ep. 108

0:00So ideally, it's 12 hours overnight, three hour nap during the day. If they're under 14 months, still two naps at least, but between 14 and 18 months moving to one nap. And that is really the only nap transition where we're not actually reducing the amount of total sleep. We're just consolidating it.

0:18Brittany Sheehan:Hi, it's Layla, your official mom friend, welcoming you to another episode of the Learning to Mom podcast. Here, we discuss all things motherhood so you can be empowered and educated without feeling overwhelmed. Each expert guest comes with their own perspective and background, so please note that the content presented in this podcast is designed for general educational purposes only and is not a substitute for personalized professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. You're going to get a lot out of this week's episode, so let's get right into it, mom friend. Hi, Brittany. Welcome back to the Learning to Mom podcast.

0:53Thank you so much for being here. I'm so stoked to talk to you again. Me too. I was so happy when I got your email. I was like, yes, queen, I'm coming. Let's do it. So for those of you that may be new listeners, Brittany came on last season to talk about,

1:08Brittany Sheehan:I did so many sleep episodes last season because it's such a large topic. You were newborn. Thank you. Yes. And so I was like, she's the one. I'm going to have her on to talk about toddler sleep. In case someone has not listened to your last episode, do you mind just introducing yourself and your business? Yes. I'll keep it very brief. But yes, I am a pediatric sleep consultant. And I work with families one-on-ones. They'll hire me to help with their child's specific sleep struggles. And I also have courses as well for families who either, you know, they don't need to talk to me every day to solve things.

1:42Maybe they just want the schedules, all that good stuff. And I also have my own podcast called The Snooze Button. and that's where we are. We're talking about toddler sleep today and I'm very, very excited. So I first just out of the gate want to talk about what does a healthy sleep schedule typically look like for a 12 to 24 month old? It's a very, very tough age. When I get clients who come to me at this age, like they've never worked with me before, they've struggled with sleep their whole life and the parents are like, we finally have to fix this. I'm always really honest with them that like this is probably the hardest time to do it.

2:15They'll be successful and it works, but it's that age where it's like all energy and stamina, not a lot of comprehension, right? Like at some point, a little baby needs multiple naps. Like they're just tired. They're going to fall asleep. Whatever method you do at some point, they're just like, I'm tired. And a child you can talk to and be like, honey, this is why like we're going to sleep in our own bed tonight. There's like more strategy around like the conversation and the things you're doing during the day. With like a 15 month old, they're just going to scream at you because they're 15 months old, right?

2:43No matter what. It could be because of sleep or because you gave them a waffle when they asked for a waffle. So I always caveat with that. And I will also say that when I tell you the amount of hours of sleep, it's going to sound crazy. And I get that some kids get a lot less sleep than this and they seem fine. Just the way we all seem fine when we get six and a half hours of sleep, but like we should get eight to 10, right? So ideally it's 12 hours overnight, three-hour nap during the day. If they're under 14 months, still two naps at least, but between 14 and 18 months moving to one nap. And that is really the only nap transition where we're not actually reducing the amount of total sleep.

3:19We're just consolidating it. So prior to that, it's two hour and a half naps. And then you hit 14 months and you can go down to one nap. And that's typically what time? And what times wake up, what times nap, what time is bedtime? Yes. Like outside of, you know, we have to drop off for daycare at a certain time. Working parents, we need to put them to bed later so we can see them. Otherwise, we wouldn't see them if they went to bed at seven. Outside of things like that, typically we're still on like a seven to seven. And then I generally suggest parents start the nap at noon. So the like initial nap is 12 to three.

3:55But this is really the first time that I do see sleep needs start to like diverge more than they did in the first year of life. The truth is most of them need roughly the same amount of sleep, right? And the same kind of timing. They will be ready for fewer naps at different times and all that kind of stuff, but it's like pretty uniform. And then once we get to one nap, some kids could not stay awake past noon, just full stop. They need to be on a 12 to three nap until they're like two and a half. Whereas plenty others are able to stay awake a little bit longer. So I always tell parents to watch out for that.

4:26And then you're putting them down at seven? Yep. Until they're usually around two and a half. And this is again, another situation where you do get to a point of course, where at some point they need less total sleep than that, right? They need less than 12 hours overnight and three hours during the day. But then I really think it comes down to a combination of that child's unique needs, but also the parents' lifestyle. Because some people are, maybe they have a baby that goes down at seven and they're like, I want everyone to sleep at seven. This is like for art sanity. You know, it's the only time we get to be adults.

4:54So they're like, okay, we're going to shorten the nap. maintains 7 p.m. bedtime. Other families are like, we like when bedtime's later, that nap during the day is like life-changing. So they keep that three-hour nap like for a really long time and bedtime is getting later, right? And so they have like a young three-year-old who's still sleeping for three hours during the day, but their bedtime is like 8.15. And both of them are fine. It's just more like a personal choice. Okay. Yeah. Now when will, just for parents who are looking ahead. When do naps stop? Well, I will tell you when they ideally should stop, which is around four.

5:32Holy cow. Oh yeah. Okay. We talked about wake ups and bedtimes.

5:37Brittany Sheehan:Let's talk about, yeah, the signs. You have a 13 month old who's taking two naps a day. What are the signs? It's like, they could drop it at 12 months. They could drop down to one at 16 months. So what are those signs for when you need to know? So this got into my head. When is any client going to call me that I worked, when I worked with them, when they were like three or four months, if I was like, when are they going to call me? Be like, Brittany, everything's been great until this week. You need to have a call. It is at 12 months or it's between 11 and 13 months. And they're like, I know what you're going to say.

6:07Don't drop to one nap, but let me just tell you what's been happening. And I listened because someday someone will surprise me. So far, It's always the same things. And that 12 month growth spurt is real. It's not a regression. It's a huge moment of like gross motor skills are coming together. A lot of kids are learning to walk or cruise or they were walking out. They were trying to run and cognitively a ton is going on. And there's just like so much going on in their little brains that they just like go crazy. And a lot of times that manifests in sleep trouble. And what parents then will understandably think is like, okay, they're, and it's almost always fighting the second nap.

6:40They're like, she still sleeps well in the morning, but she's just like not taking the second nap. and then they move to one nap and now the kid like cannot stay awake until noon. So they're like passing out at, you know, 1045, taking a short nap. And then they have another crappy nap in the, it's like a whole thing. So I always tell parents, like, even if you really feel like they're just fully not taking the second nap, don't move to one nap until at least 14 months. And what happens pretty much all the time is the sleep comes back. Right. So they go through that growth spurt, but everything's crazy.

7:08They come to the other side and then the parents get like three more months on two naps. So if anybody's listening with a 12 month old that is fighting their second nap, that's my message for you. Just wait.

7:19Brittany Sheehan:So one late night I stood at my sink scrubbing mustard stains out of tiny pajamas and thought, why is every single cleaner in my house either useless or full of junk? You know what I'm talking about. You're trying to do the right thing. So you grab the green spray, the free and clear detergent, the dish soap with leaves on the label, And it either doesn't actually clean or you find out later that it's still full of hidden chemicals. It's just hiding behind great marketing on the front. So I finally found a line of products that is legitimately non-toxic, but actually cleans without using artificial fragrance to just make you believe it's clean because the scent is masked.

8:03Brittany Sheehan:Their dishwasher detergent and dish soap, game changers. The multi-service spray, I'm obsessed. and I can use it on our countertops and my baby's high chair tray and their toys that can't get thrown in the wash, but still need to be cleaned. Little by little, I've swapped over everything we use. And now I don't second guess labels. I don't spend hours Googling and I don't worry about what's touching my kid's skin or floating in the air. We're breathing after I sprayed cleaning supplies. It's just one less thing to carry on my mental load. So if you're ready to stop guessing and just know you're using something safe and effective.

8:41Brittany Sheehan:Here's the shortcut. It's truly free home. Head to the link in the show notes, use that link and my code learning to mom to receive 30 % off. I want to talk about, I just remember getting to this age and all of a sudden bedtime got a lot harder, like putting them down. So can we talk about why? And can we talk about tips and tricks you have for? Yes. Yes. And one thing I've done in the last few years, like more frequently with my baby clients is not only telling them what I'm going to tell you, but explaining that this might not seem super necessary right now when they're like three, four, five, six months old.

9:18But if this is already kind of your mindset around bedtime, when they do get older to this age and they start testing, they have this back context as to how things happen. So I work with clients and this is obviously really important with toddlers, but that like the sequence is really clear for them. Because a lot of people like, you're busy, you have like maybe another kid, you're trying to cook dinner, whatever. It's like, they're coming in and out of the room, like someone's like putting on their PJs in the bathroom. And then like, someone comes over there, they want to go ask dad a question, they're coming back in.

9:46And it's like bedtime becomes this, especially as they're newly mobile. It's like this sort of like nebulous, like, when does it end? When does it start? What's happening? It's like very unclear to them, which doesn't matter when they're six months old, you can be like, hey, I'm gonna like burp her out here. But as they get older, they're starting to like figure things out. And like the less structure and routine you have, the harder it is for them. And they're just going to keep pushing back. I think at this age too, it's usually the first time as a parent that you see your kid like have opinions and you're kind of like, you almost, I feel like people get like unnerved by it.

10:18Like they're reading the book and they make a more book. And they're just like, oh my God, she wants another book. And it's like, you're not really prepared for that. So you're like, of course we'll do one more. So in that moment when they're pushing back and are like, more book, more toy, whatever. You're like, no, buddy, we read two books every night. Like, let's pick out our book. And it's like, you already know the answer. And like, the clearer it is for them, they understand, like, I was playing in the living room with my parents is doing whatever. They bring me into this room. They always sing me my song.

10:44They read me my two books. We do our prayer, our mantra, like whatever people do. And then they like lay me down. They're like, bye-bye. And I'm supposed to go to sleep. Like the door closes. So it's really clear, like when one activity started and finished because kids don't do great with gray area, right? Especially the really little ones. It's like the more black and white you make it, it doesn't mean they won't push back ever because they're toddlers. That's what they do. But it'll make it a lot less painful. So you believe that it is more for them testing boundaries and finding their own voice than it is them like all of a sudden struggling with separation anxiety?

11:18I think they have the separation anxiety, but I would say if anybody's noticing that isolated to sleep, no, right? Because that it would manifest everywhere else too. It would be like you're cooking dinner and they can't be out of your sight. And that stuff is really normal. Right. But if it was only happening during sleep, like isolated to that, that's not separation. That's something else. Right. Like why, why sleep, why sleep so hard specifically. Now kind of going back to the two nap to one nap schedule, when we go from the two naps to the one naps, is that a really hard transition? And what can we do to make that smoother?

11:54Yes, it is. It isn't always hard. I am very like anti unnecessary fear monitoring, like plenty of kids. It's not a big deal. But if you have a kid either who transitions in the past have been tricky or not, like this is, if one is going to be tough, it's probably this one. But my best advice, if I'm catching anybody before they do the transition, this is the time to really work on them being good nappers and being able to take like a 90 minute nap, because that's when you really run into trouble, right? It's like, if you're taking those chronic 45 minute naps, when you're four months old, you can kind of get away with it because you can just do a bunch of them.

12:27But at some point they need fewer naps and that doesn't really work anymore. So then trying to get a kid who can never sleep past 45 minutes to sleep for three straight hours in the toughest stage for them to like make sleep changes is like really brutal. So that's the best thing is to really work on connecting sleep cycles and even getting like like 90 minute naps going into it. And then being really consistent, being really consistent with the timing. As you know, I only do schedules with clients past the newborn stage. But if you are a family that's still been doing wake windows on two naps, this is the time that I would change that and say, you know, even if your schedule isn't what I would suggest that it's like 1230 or 1130, but that's like the time the nap is, that will help a lot too.

13:07Because part of it is their body adjusting to like when they're supposed to sleep and being tired at the same time every day. That helps a lot.

13:15Brittany Sheehan:Interrupting this week's episode real quick for this week's segment of MomMail. If you're new here, this is the part of the show where I answer a listener-submitted situation or scenario. Basically, you write in your tricky situation and I give you advice only a real mom friend would give. Here's the email I received this week. My husband thinks I'm being controlling. Our toddler just turned two and every night before bed, he, my husband, sneaks our toddler cookies or candy for fun, which I get. he's gone all day and wants special memories and giggles with our son. I've told him multiple times that it makes bedtime harder, but he says that I'm too uptight and he's making happy memories with him.

13:53Brittany Sheehan:I don't know what to do because I get the happy memories point, but I'm the one who actually does bedtime, which is always a struggle. What should I do? My advice for you, friend, your husband should do bedtime. Why isn't that happening? I totally understand the happy memories. If he wants those happy memories and those bonding memories, great. But I don't think anything is going to change until he sees the results of that sugar before bedtime. So I think it would be really beneficial for him to take bedtime for a few nights after the sugar is given right before bedtime for him to kind of see, oh, this is what happens.

14:34Brittany Sheehan:And after that, perhaps he would have some more creative ideas for how they can have happy bonding memories that doesn't result in a sugar high right before you put your toddler down for bed. Just a thought. That's obviously just what I would recommend. I don't know your situation. I don't know your relationship. But that is just an idea. I don't think you're wrong for being upset. And I don't think you're being uptight about this either. If you're the one who's struggling with bedtime because he's the one who's giving a sugary treat and making your child have a sugar high right before bed, I think you have every right to be upset and frustrated.

15:12Brittany Sheehan:There's other ways that your husband can go about with making happy, fun memories without giving your kid the zoomies right before bed. So, just a thought. I hope that helps. If you have a scenario for me, don't forget to write in at learningtomompodcast.mommail at gmail.com with the subject line, mom mail. And then keep your ears open because we might just answer it on next week's episode. I'm so glad that we're talking about this because it's making me ask you all these questions that I didn't plan on asking. Like, what tips do you have for taking a trip and your kid's sleep sucks? And not that you're not prioritizing it.

15:50You could be going back to your hotel room and trying to put them down and they're just like, not about it. What the heck do you do? Yeah. I mean, the first thing, and this is like a non-answer, but I can give you actual tips. But my first answer is like, if you know you have a trip coming up, work on the sleep when you're at home. That's the best thing you can do. You know? And I, cause I will often have clients who were like, we're at the near the end of our two weeks together. And they're like, we're going to Vermont, you know, next week. And I'm like, kind of scared all this isn't gonna be ruined.

16:14And I'm like, it won't be because you just did everything to make that easy. Now you have a kid who puts himself down by themselves. They're not upset about sleep and they're not tired anymore. They're not exhausted. You know, like that's the biggest thing because travel, you know, we all get like a little bit grumpy and tired when we're traveling. But if you're already exhausted, then you're just like, I would be a disaster too. Right. So that's like the biggest thing. And then beyond that, like depending on the kid's age, silly things like making sure they're not dehydrated. It sounds really dumb, but sometimes you're like at the beach with your family and it's like they had blue dye five for all of their food groups that day.

16:46And like that can really cause like night terrors and nightmares and things like that is like diet. So things like that and introducing the sleep environment before you put them to bed, especially because I want to be honest and not make it sound like, oh, you do things my exact way and then you'll have a perfect sleeper for your whole life. Obviously, every kid is different. And some kids do struggle more with transitions. Like they could use a little bit more prep going into like, hey, we're going to get on an airplane and like, you know, all that kind of stuff. So especially if you have a kid who struggles with transition, that you're like showing them the room they're going to sleep in.

17:17Mommy's going to be over here. You're going to sleep here with your brother, blah, blah, blah. And then not like skimping on your routine. So if you usually read them a book or two, do that when you're at the hotel, you know, and making sure you keep them on their schedule too, as much as you can. It's not going to be perfect. But I always tell clients like, you know, if you're going, because I'll get a lot who go to Europe and they'll be like, you know, we're going to land at this time and we want to do like late dinners. I'm like, great. So, but like, don't do everything at once and then be surprised when it's really hard.

17:46So either you commit to like one nap on time, you know, stay in the hotel while they nap, I'll sit in the bathtub and read a book, or you commit to like being home for bedtime, but just don't do all of it, right? Don't do every single nap in the stroller and keep them up until 11 PM. That's, that's just, you know, it's hard for them. And then my best advice too, is if you have a kid who no matter what, even if you do everything perfectly they struggle during travel if you hold the line the first night like whatever you would have done at home you stick with the first night it generally clicks and they're like oh it's the same here as it is at home you know because I think some kids will get the back context like when we're in a hotel room if I freak out they let me get in their bed so they might be like great at home but there's just been a few slip-ups in the past and now they have this like on trips I go crazy and don't do anything crazy like decide to put them in a bed for the first time on a trip you'd be surprised how often people will ask me if they should do that and I'm like no they've been in a crib their whole life and you're gonna just like toss them in a bed in Vermont on a ski trip no don't do that that's tricky though the trip thing and like towing the line because you have neighbors and your kid is screaming yeah so that's what screwed us over with our first.

19:06Yeah. And I mean, it kind of depends on the place. That's a good point. Cause if it's like, you know, I'll sometimes have clients be like, should we do our plan? We're going to be on this like trip part of the way through. I'm like, are we talking like you're at your parents' house and they're not there like a beach house or like, what is the layout? Cause I get it. If a kid is sharing a room with three other kids, you don't have a choice. Right. Um, so maybe a hotel, if they were screaming in a hotel, maybe you would have to do something differently. Maybe I hope not, but yeah, it's possible.

19:34You have to give a little bit more support. But I would still say in a situation like that where you have no choice, you're like in a room with other people, whatever. It's still, I would do as little as you have to to stop that and not just not go zero to 60, right? Like they started fussing. So you grabbed them and brought them into the bed.

19:51Brittany Sheehan:Yeah. Being honest with you, mom friend. For years, I felt like makeup was this trade-off because on one hand, it gave me confidence. And as someone who struggled with acne for years, literally since middle school, I didn't really feel confident in my skin naturally. So I had to rely on heavy foundation and makeup just to allow myself to walk out of the house without being embarrassed and without wanting to hide when I saw someone I knew out in public. But then on the other hand, I always knew deep down that what I was putting on my skin wasn't actually good for me and was probably part of the problem.

20:24Brittany Sheehan:My acne wasn't actually getting better because my skin couldn't breathe. And then once I became a mom, it hit me even harder because what I was putting on my face was ending up on my kids' faces, on their clothes, on their little cheeks when I kissed them or snuggled them. So I'd go back and forth, right? Do I wear the makeup that gives me the confidence to show my face in public? Or do I try the clean brands that never actually perform the foundation that melts off by noon, the lip gloss that's sticky and weird? It felt like I was choosing between feeling confident and feeling safe. And then I found the brand that made me realize I don't have to choose.