Katie Phang Discusses Major Win in Epstein Documents Release Case

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2:25Michael Popok:Welcome to a special edition of Legal AF. You know the top line already. Katie Fang has prevailed in her case against the Trump administration and Todd Blanche to obtain the rest of the Epstein files. But there's a story behind that that's important because this, I believe, opens the door, breaks the glass ceiling for all independent journalists. This is not going to be the last case. This is going to be the first case. This is the blueprint. This is the trailblazer case for independent journalists, because we know mainstream media won't do it, to step into the fray, step into the breach, and file lawsuits against the Trump administration to get the information that we so desperately deserve, to get the transparency that the Trump administration has been promising us, but has been peeing down our leg and telling us that it's raining.

3:19Michael Popok:Those days are over. This will be taught in history books and in law school books about how an independent journalist got off the sidelines of commentary and went after the administration to obtain the documents that she needs to do her job and to support the survivors and the victims of the Epstein file. Now, I can keep going on, or I could bring in Katie Fang, the plaintiff in the case and a friend. Hi, Katie. Wow. That's an intro. I told you, I might make you blush. That's how I feel. I believe that this is not the last. First of all, I don't think it's your last case. And I think this is now a blueprint that all independent journalists that are in a like position, because you made such great arguments.

4:08Michael Popok:We'll talk about the nuances and the way you got around the Epstein files, Does the Transparency Act have a private right of action or not? Who cares? There was final agency action when Todd Blanchett told the American people, we're done. That's all the docs. We did some redactings, things we're not going to do. We're done. That is what we call in the business final agency action. The Administrative Procedures Act says that people can sue if they don't like the results and they want oversight over that final agency action. We'll get into all of that. That was such a brilliant strategy to get to the bottom of it.

4:46Michael Popok:But why don't we start with things that people wouldn't pick up from reading the filings or even this amazing order, which we posted on Legal Life Substack by Judge Emmett Sullivan. Talk about why you didn't bring the case for sensationalism. You didn't bring the case. So people know you already. They love you already. Why did you bring the case? And what are you trying to do both for journalism and for the survivors of the Epstein scandal? You know, Mike, I've talked a lot about how I didn't grow up to be a journalist, right? I mean, frankly, I didn't even grow up to be a lawyer. But being a journalist, it's taught me that a lot of what we learned as lawyers is very relevant, right?

5:30As a journalist, you want to be able to deliver the facts and the evidence to readers, subscribers, viewers, whomever. and in the absence of being able to do that, what are you supposed to do? Just stand there on the sidelines and pretend like you're contented with what has being offered to you? I think all of you know, and you especially, Mike, you've known me for decades, I'm never contented with just crumbs. And I'm especially not going to take a corrupt department of justice that is being led originally by Pammy Jo with the bad hair, who's now been jettisoned and now Todd Blanche, both personal lawyers for Donald Trump.

6:05I'm not going to let Donald Trump use the Department of Justice to only spoon feed to me, to you and others here in independent media, information that legally is insufficient. Because then you and I just end up being mouthpieces for a federal government agency that is blatantly breaking the law on the daily since December 19th of 2025. And so not only did I realize that these redactions made it nearly impossible for me to be able to do my job, but there was a kind of temporal sense of urgency for some of it, especially as we get closer to the November midterms, it becomes a politically radioactive issue, which we know it has been.

6:44But then I'm also suffering economic harm because subscribers, viewers lead to income for me. And again, never been about the money. It's always been about kind of being able to be the person that breaks down that door so that everybody else and the hordes of truth seekers and justice seekers can now go through that open gate. And I got to tell you, I geeked out yesterday when this happens because not only is this order spectacular, but it calls Todd Blanche out on the mat for his just arrogance and his disregard for the rule of law. Yeah. And Judge Sullivan clearly knew where he wanted to go with this memorandum opinion.

7:26But yesterday's events in the afternoon, I just want to mention for a minute, are incredibly relevant. We did a notice of supplemental filing on Wednesday afternoon showing Judge Sullivan that the DOJ was talking out of both sides of its mouth. It had spent so much time telling me, as Katie Fang, the plaintiff in this lawsuit, that FOIA, the Freedom of Information Act, was the remedy for me and not the Administrative Procedure Act. And that's why my lawsuit was defective. But then we got our hands on a response to a FOIA request that was made. And the response was from the DOJ. And guess what they said to this guy who wanted Glenn Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein documentation from DOJ.

8:07Oh, sir, FOIA doesn't work for you. The Epstein Files Transparency Act works for you. I mean, it's like truly the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. But beyond that, Mike, it also showed they're trying to play games and they're playing games with child rape, child predation, sexual abuse, and child trafficking and sex trafficking. Because it wasn't just the children, there was also adults that were involved in this. And so we filed this notice of supplemental filing on Wednesday and Thursday morning at like 10 a.m., Judge Sullivan orders the Department of Justice to respond by 1 p.m.

8:39Eastern yesterday. And I loved this. In his order, Judge Sullivan says, do not repeat the same things that you have been repeating so far because he was just done.

8:47Michael Popok:First they missed the deadline, right? They never filed anything at all. It's not that they missed the deadline, Mike. They never filed anything at all. And so fast forward, yeah, they blew past it. And as practitioners, Mike, you and I would never ignore a federal order. Even if I had nothing to say to the judge, I would file something that says, judge, we rely upon our previously stated arguments and our response and opposition, but I would never ignore a judge. They ignored it. They wiped their ass with it. And so the judge actually made sure there was a footnote in his memorandum opinion stating as of the filing of this memorandum opinion, the DOJ has failed to respond in any way whatsoever to my order.

9:28Michael Popok:And when I get to certain passages that prove your point, you know, he chastises Todd Blanche for only focusing myopically on a failed argument that you did not have standing. And we'll talk about that. And you didn't have the type of informational, reputational, economic harm. And the judge says you do. And it was great. It lays out your entire successful career as an intrepid reporter and journalist and legal commentator, including citations to how many views you've gotten on your channel, which I loved. It was like a commercial for the Katie Fang News Channel by Judge Emmett Sullivan in the middle.

10:05Michael Popok:But it also chastises, as we would expect, Todd Blanche, for his violations of the Epstein Act and his failure to respond substantively to your arguments. And therefore, the judge says, since you didn't respond substantively, you have waived your opportunity. We have to assume that what her argument is, is correct. You and I would never have a brief that made a series of points we would never have ignored. That's debate 101 from high school. You have to address each of the points or you lose. Yeah. So Judge Sullivan said repeatedly in his order, the attorney general has conceded that he has violated the Epstein Files Transparency Act, which bigger picture, I've been talking about this with some folks since yesterday, you know, his confirmation, his Senate confirmation hearings coming up in front of Senate judiciary, July 15th or 16th.

10:59And this is a very big deal. I expect this to be a very big part of his confirmation process, because how can you have an attorney general in the permanent capacity of AG who violates the law and has conceded in a federal case concerning the greatest stain on American history with the greatest, you know, most horrific pedophile in American history, Jeffrey Epstein, that he's conceded that he's violated the law?

11:25Michael Popok:Your case and the result and that finding by the judge, if that's not the first module of questions that are asked in cross-examination by Senator Sheldon Whitehouse and Blumenthal. Cory Booker. Cory Booker, I'd be shocked. About a week or so ago, 101, you and I covered it, 101 state judges yoked together. I know now Judge Ludig was also involved in that. State and federal judges, yes. They filed a bar complaint. I'm a member of that particular department, of the first department in New York that Todd Blanche is a member of, and laid out in a 62-page single-spaced... Bar complaint. I mean, that bar complaint, that should just be...

12:09Michael Popok:But now they got to add the Katie Fang filing. Let me just read a couple of things. And I had Judge Lutte gone two days ago, and I asked him point blank. I said, let me ask you something, Judge. is Todd Blanche fit to be the attorney general of the United States. I've interviewed him a dozen times. I've never seen him this angry. And he was like, he's just like looking at me like this, Michael, this is the most corrupt Department of Justice and attorney general in 250 years. And then it went on from there. Let me read from some aspects of the order by judge, the 48-page decision by Judge Sullivan.

12:58Michael Popok:And you and I, when I had you on originally when the case was filed, I was like, you got a great judge. This is a great judge, great judge for the case who takes things seriously. Here's what he wrote, among other things. It says on page 13 about you, Miss Fang seeks the information that she claims has been illegally withheld, quote, because as a journalist covering the Epstein story, she owes her audience, the public, and the victims of Epstein, Maxwell, and others, the most accurate and comprehensive reporting possible, and talks about the illegal conduct of that. Earlier, he finally got around to calling, which I'm glad, Ghislaine Maxwell a child sex trafficker, as opposed to the person - She should never be exempted from the proper titling.

13:42She's been convicted. Yes, He deserves it.

13:45Michael Popok:And just as a little bit of background, your case stepped into a void that was created by a number of federal judges because of procedural reasons and other reasons that refused to provide the oversight over the production of the Epstein files that was required. Two judges in New York, right? Judge Engelmeyer and Judge Berman. Even a judge that we know down in Florida was like, you know what? I got limitations here on what I can do. I'm really the court judge on Maxwell and Epstein. And they and they they passed. And then Congress ran in there. Democrats ran in there. And you know, special master.

14:22Michael Popok:We need a special master. I'd like I can't. And your case, now you've got your order to show cause that either produced the documents that have been redacted. They reduced those documents about the complaint from the woman who said she was 13 and sexually abused by Donald Trump. They released the foreign language documents or they show why they cannot. And they start translating those foreign documents, right? Yeah. So, yes, they never even bothered to touch the foreign language documents, which is stunning because, I mean, I'm going to be spending actually some time in Europe over the summer.

14:57And part of that is to be able to investigate more on the Epstein sex trafficking ring internationally. How do you not translate that? Blanche says, eh, we don't have capacity. It's the largest, most powerful law firm in the world. And you don't have capacity to bring in somebody to do a translation of these important documents, number one. But number two, one of the biggest things that you just mentioned is a special master, Michael, which I love a special master because we've seen them effectively do work and big federal prosecutions and other cases, even civil cases, right? They help the judge manage something that is voluminous and very overwhelming when it comes to content.

15:33But the special master asked by me was obviously inspired by Ro Khanna and Tom Massey, who were told, as you said, by the federal judge of New York, I wish I could, but I can't because you people don't have standing to come to me and try to have this done. And he did it politely, but he said, look, what you're asking for, I'm sure somebody will be able to do. So the fact that Judge Sullivan said, not only do I have standing to come forward and pursue this, Mike, but the special master thing becomes very important because this is just a preliminary injunction. But inside his order, Judge Sullivan said that I am likely to succeed on the merits of my lawsuit, which speaks to the bigger success of my lawsuit because the ultimate goal, Michael, is the entirety of the Epstein files produced, including the shit that Blanche continues to sit on, making sure that they're properly redacted.

16:20Who's supposed to find out if it's properly redacted? The special master. And so it all kind of fits together in the bigger pieces of the bigger picture puzzle. And of course, they'll appeal and they'll take it to the D.C. Circuit, which has people auditioning every day for the Supreme Court. But we have done good. You, me, Midas, everybody who's tuning in. This is a collective win for all of us because Judge Judge Sullivan made it clear in his order, Blanche must produce this quote to the public. He didn't say produce to Katie Fang, the plaintiff. He said produce to the public because he understood, Sullivan understood that I'm not doing this for me.

16:57I'm doing it for all of us. And most importantly, for the survivor community, which has been reaching out and just stunning in their support and just stunning in their appreciation for just somebody saying, enough, we got to fight. And this is how we move this ball forward.

17:15Michael Popok:Yeah. When I interviewed somebody that you sent my way, Danny Bensky, who you did that great Donald J. Trump and Epstein Memorial Library visit with, very moving, poignant. Danny, I know you know the stat, but for our audience, of the 1 ,400, 1 ,600, whatever the total, 1 ,400 or so Epstein survivors and victims, I asked her, because we always talk about them, I said, how many have actually voluntarily come forward? It's a very tough thing to do after being trafficked, being preyed upon and sexually abused to come forward. I don't expect it. It takes tremendous courage. And it's an individual decision, despite Melania Trump saying they should all testify in Congress.

17:56Michael Popok:Like, you're right. The victims. On the congressional record. It's the only time the truth comes out is on the congressional record. Yeah. Rape victims need to go to Congress in order to get justice. OK. So I asked Danny, just as a point of reference, how many of the 1 ,400 have actually come out? She said 25. Think about it. She said the total story has not been told because it can't be told because there's only 25 of us that have come out and told our story, right? And so not everybody, so, you know, she can only tell her story. She, you know, her personal story. And they have to come forward because as Danny has explained, Jenalisa Jones, Charlene Rochard, and others, they were intentionally siloed by Epstein and Maxwell.

18:37And so their awareness of each other as survivors and victims has only come out from those that have been willing to step forward. But then we also, at the other end of the spectrum, have to talk about the people that didn't want to come out but were outed either intentionally or through gross negligence by the Department of Justice when they improperly released these files. We have now heard from a few victims and survivors that said, I never wanted to come forward. I always wanted to be either a Jane Doe or never known. Because look at the surrounding fur and media around all of this, right?

19:08And so a lot of them said, including one at the shadow hearing in West Palm that I attended at House Oversight Dems did, Rosa is the name that she used. She never wanted to be outed. She never wanted to be identified. And she's like, I am now here because I want people to understand that there has to be something done. If you are going to make me a public figure, now you have to actually have the people pay the price for what they have perpetrated. And this is part of the goal of this lawsuit.

19:35Michael Popok:And back to how I started, you being the trailblazer. And I really believe it's not just because we're friends. It's really because I would say it even if I didn't know you. because we all waited, and now I understand why, for one of the 25 to come forward and want to be the plaintiff in a case like this. Because whether we were going to have the argument about the Epstein Transparency Act, private right of action, or the APA, we thought, well, maybe the standard bearer for this case would be a survivor. But look what you, why would you want to subject yourself to that, to that. I mean, one thing, you and I got a rhinoceros hide, right?

20:16Right?

20:17Michael Popok:We're out there. We're out there fighting the fight. I mean, but you know, Michael, it's one thing for a victim, but then think about this too. Let's talk legally. Let's say a victim survivor comes forward and says, you violated the law, Todd Blanche, because you put my information out there in violation of the law. The immediate remedy is limited to just that victim. And they would say, oh, sorry, oops, my bad. It's now been redacted, republished now on the DOJ website. The fix has been made. It's too narrow. My lawsuit is for everything, right? It's not just for the Dani Benskis who still has part of her identity still out there, ridiculously so after all this time.

20:55My lawsuit's not just for Dani. It's just for everyone to be able to look at and be able to obtain this information. And that's really has always been the goal. And so I sit here now and I still am the only lawsuit pursuant to the Epstein Files Transparency Act. It's just crazy, right?

21:13Michael Popok:Let me read to our audience what we just talked about on page 35 of the order. This is about your likelihood to prevail on your claim, which is we're in a preliminary, just for people joining late, we're in a preliminary injunction, which means the judge is taking a peek under the hood, looking down at what he thinks at the end of a trial, who will be the winner or loser. There's other factors for preliminary injunction, but the one, you got to be, in order to have an injunction issued in your favor, you got to show the judge that you're likely to win at the end of a case. And they're sort of looking down the road now.

21:52Michael Popok:Here's what he said about that. Ms. Fang argues that she is likely to succeed on the merits of her APA claim relevant to the motion. Ms. Fang identifies five categories of violations of the Epstein Act. First, the Attorney General has violated the Epstein Act. That's Blanche now. by redacting the names of senders and recipients in at least eight email exchanges with Mr. Epstein regarding a torture video and sexual activity with young women, including minors. Second, the Attorney General has violated the Epstein Act by redacting the names of co-defendants in a draft indictment, the names of individuals identified as co-conspirators, and the sender and recipients in a department briefing email.

22:34Michael Popok:Third, the Attorney General has violated the Epstein Act by withholding certain materials mentioning President Trump. Specifically, notes from FBI interviews with a victim who has alleged that in the 1980s, when she was 13 years old, Epstein introduced her to Trump, who in turn assaulted her. Fourth, this is all from Judge Sullivan. The Attorney General has violated the Epstein Act by not reviewing or producing any foreign language materials. Fifth, the Attorney General has violated the Epstein Act by failing to publish any redaction logs. The attorney general does not respond substantively to any of these arguments.

23:11Michael Popok:Rather, he states that based on his jurisdictional arguments, which by the way, the judge says you don't even give me like case law for it, Ms. Fang's APA claims fail as a matter of law. By not responding substantively, the attorney general has conceded Ms. Fang's merits arguments in the pending motion. And then he cites a case about accordingly. Miss Fang is likely to succeed on the merits of her claim injunction granted. Yes. And the judge says not only are your case citations not applicable to the facts at hand, but in some instances, Todd Blanche, you didn't even bother to cite to any case law.