Legal AF - 2/26/2026

18:05KFA:And he tried to lie to all of us, but people know what's really going on. And that's what I sort of took away. It was a very kind of cringy night. I thought he really knows, he acts like someone who's kind of losing and he knows he's losing. And so he's trying really hard to make people feel good because we have these American heroes and giving out these awards. But I mean, half the Supreme Court justices, including his biggest supporters, right, the MAGA ones, half of them didn't show up, which, again, I didn't understand kind of any rhyme or reason there. It wasn't like the liberals didn't show up and the Democrats did.

18:43KFA:I mean, and the MAGA wing did. It was like, you know, it was a mixture. But he criticized the Supreme Court justices, which was, you know, I think atrocious and appalling and really disrespectful. full. And he just lied the whole time. He said some really things that were really terrible too. He basically made it seem like all foreigners are murderers and violent criminals. And that's just a terrible message. And it was just offensive, to be honest. What he did say that was not giving out hero awards was offensive to me and lies and gaslighting. And that's the best he could say, even in his own world of lies where he spins things, if that's the best he could say, that to me is really telling.

19:33KFA:Because I thought he was going to go on and on. I mean, he did take credit for eight wars that he claims he solved. Half of them I didn't even know we were in or that anyone was in or was in conflict. But it was just bizarre to me, his whole rant. What about you?

19:51Popok:Yeah, let's start with the economy. The economy is in the shitter and he knows. He tried to blame Biden. Again, this is his economy. It's a full year in. And everything he said about the starting point of Joe Biden's economy is false. Income is down. The gross domestic product, the measure of the productivity of our economy, service and goods and agriculture is down. It's actually in deceleration. Job and job creation is way down. He said he'd make millions and millions and millions of jobs when he was campaigning. He made 180 ,000 jobs in a year. Biden made 1.5 million jobs in a year. Inflation is up.

20:38Popok:Unemployment is up. The percentage of Americans that hold jobs is down. We know it, as you said, because we're experiencing it in real in real time. His lies about investments that he was able to finagle with tariffs, tariffs that have now been shot down. He keeps fudging the numbers,$18 trillion of investments. His own website says$9 trillion. Prior reporting was$5 trillion. And there's doubts about whether there'll be any investment made by foreign countries, especially now that the tariffs have been ripped down and where that money is coming from. Sure, South Korea built a data center out in the middle of America, but that was off of the Biden, a Biden Chips Act.

21:23Popok:That wasn't a Trump, he takes credit for things that Biden, the seeds that Biden planted. And then he looks at his backyard and says, look, apple trees. Yeah, the apple trees are not yours. They were planted by the predecessor. And then you look at his claim that tariffs are going to replace income tax Okay, tariffs at best or worst, if the Supreme Court hadn't ripped it down. And shout out to Amy Coney Barrett, who got attacked personally by Donald Trump, after she ruled properly that the statute and Constitution don't allow Donald Trump to tax and tariff his way into economic ruin. She showed up, you know, even though he called it out and said her family should be embarrassed by her.

22:08Popok:Good luck on birthright citizenship, Donald. Good luck on Lisa Cook Federal Reserve firing. Good luck on lots of other things now that I think you're starting to lose some of the MAGA 6 like Gorsuch and Amy Coney Barrett. But this whole notion that$300 billion worth of tariffs is going to replace$4.7 trillion worth of collected taxes. I didn't graduate from a mathematical academy, but I do know that$300 billion is a lot less than$4.7 trillion. you'd have to raise tariffs to 150 % and create another 200 countries for the math to work. So the math with Donald Trump never works because he's just making cheap political points, hoping that we all move on.

23:02Popok:The ending of eight wars, ask Hamas and people in Israel whether they think the war is over. Ask the Ukrainians and the Russians, especially Ukrainians, whether they think the war is over. I mean, Cambodia and Thailand, I didn't even know there was a war. He claims credit for wars that he solved that I didn't even know there was a war. India was really going to use nuclear weapons against its border country, its border rival Pakistan. I mean, it's just the fantasy world in which Donald Trump lives is just remarkable. Now, it gives him cheap applause lines. You know, it gave just the Republicans in the House some things to laugh at.

23:45Popok:You know, it should have been, it should really be my third term. You know, as if, again, you know, in his spare time, rather than trying to wreck the hopes and dreams of Americans, he should go read the Constitution about that. And he can't even get basic facts right. He said the American Revolution started in 1776. It started in 1775. They declared independence in 1776. I mean, just like stubborn little things like facts always seem to elude his grasp. But look, the Democrats and the American people are wise to it. Do I think this changes the poll numbers? Do I think some people go, hey, maybe I was wrong.

24:23Popok:Maybe it's a much more successful presidency than I ever thought based on that rambling speech. No effing way. And I think in seven, I love the contrast. Two hours of Donald Trump's lagaria throwing up on the American people, you know, against 17 minutes of Virginia governor and superstar, white hot superstar, Abigail Spanberger in rebuttal. Let's play that clip.

24:51KFA:Tonight, as we watched our nation's lawmakers gather for a joint session of Congress, we did not hear the truth from our president. So let's speak plainly and honestly. And let me ask you, the American people watching at home, three questions. Is the president working to make life more affordable for you and your family? Is the president working to keep Americans safe both at home and abroad? Is the president working for you? We all know the answer is no. In his speech tonight, the president did what he always does. He lied, he scapegoated, and he distracted. And he offered no real solutions to our nation's pressing challenges, so many of which he is actively making worse.

25:45KFA:He tries to divide us. He tries to enrage us, to pit us against one another, neighbor against neighbor. And sometimes he succeeds. And so you have to ask who benefits from his rhetoric, his policies, his actions, the short list of laws he's pushed through this Republican Congress. Somebody must be benefiting. He's enriching himself, his family, his friends. The scale of the corruption is unprecedented. There's the cover-up of the Epstein files, the crypto scams, cozying up to foreign princes for airplanes and billionaires for ballrooms, putting his name and face on buildings all over our nation's capital.

26:30KFA:This is not what our founders envisioned, not by a long shot.

26:40So I'll ask again, is the president working for you?

26:43KFA:We all know the answer is no. And yet, our president has sent poorly trained federal agents into our cities where they have arrested and detained American citizens and people who aspire to be Americans. And they have done it without a warrant. They have ripped nursing mothers away from their babies. they have sent children, a little boy in a blue bunny hat, children to far-off detention centers, and they have killed American citizens in our streets. And they have done it all with their faces masked from accountability. Every minute spent sowing fear is a minute not spent investigating murders, crimes against children, or the criminals defrauding seniors of their life savings.

27:34Our president told us tonight that we are safer because these agents arrest mothers and detain children.

27:42KFA:Think about that. Our broken immigration system is something to be fixed, not an excuse for unaccountable agents to terrorize our communities.

28:00Popok:Wow, such a powerful, powerful presentation. I want to get your reaction to it. You were one of the first people in the Midas world that saw her speech and had some great insight about it. But we'll talk about that. I will also pick up with the decision by the Trump administration, Department of Justice, not to pursue a criminal prosecution against. Good idea. Again, six members of Congress, Donald Trump, lying to the American people again about the Epstein files, including making sure that his name was scrubbed off of some pretty scandalous allegations against him that were on a PowerPoint, apparently, to be investigated and yet are not being investigated.

28:45Popok:and we'll talk more about that as well. And the rest, the way to support what we do here on Legal AF, you're here, you enjoy the Legal AF podcast, come over to Legal AF, the YouTube channel, hit that free subscribe button, hit the paid subscribe button, even better. We have no outside investors. This is the way we people power our way into being independent media, all with your support. Separately, we've got a Legal AF sub-stack community It overlaps in a way with the YouTube community and the podcast community. But there's other people that are just living on Substack, and we appreciate them and honor them with 10 or 12 pieces of content every day.

29:25Popok:I try to do one or two live reports a day to update you over on Legal AF Substack. And of course, support as you have. I'm really speaking to those that haven't had a chance to. Support the Legal AF podcast, sort of the mothership of all that we do at the intersection of law and politics. come over to the audio podcast platforms like Spotify and Apple and leave five-star reviews and comments. We read them. Helps keep the show up at the top of the rankings. YouTube, the same thing. We're regularly in the top 20 to 50 in terms of our overall ranking. And that's great. That gives us the street cred to continue to bring on the guests that you want to see, have the content that you want to see.

30:08Popok:And that's all, again, a people-powered movement here on Legal AF. And then we've got our sponsors, some of which we've had from the very beginning, some of which have joined a little bit later, all support our viewpoint, our First Amendment rights and yours, and want to speak to our audience. So we've tested these items. We like them. Jordy, one of the brothers, curates it. And now a word from our sponsors. Let's talk about something no one wants to talk about. What happens when you die? Because unfortunately, it's going to happen to you, to me, but you can be prepared with Trust and Will Online Estate Planning.

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33:48Popok:Colostrum is packed with over 400 bioactive nutrients that fortify gut health, fuel fitness recovery, and strengthen immune health, supporting your best performance every day. Take back control of your health. We've worked out a special offer from my audience. Receive 30 % off your first subscription order. Go to armrud.com slash legal AF or enter legal AF to get 30 % off your first subscription order. That's A-R-M-R-A dot com slash legal AF. Welcome back to our Legal AF audience here on the Midas Touch Network. Karen, give the audience from your perspective how effective you think Abigail Spanberger, governor of Virginia was, newly elected governor.

34:37Popok:She had been in the House. and what your takeaway is from an advocate, somebody who argues for a living like you and I do as lawyers, how effective do you think her 17 minutes was against Donald Trump's two and a half hours of ramble?

34:56KFA:I mean, look, I'm a lifelong public servant. I spent 30 years in the public sector. And I'm the first person who gets the chills, you know, when the Star Spangled Banner plays and, you know, all the pomp and circumstance. And I love this country and I'm a total patriot. And she just gave me all those feelings, right? You know, she started with talking about the historical perspective of the room she was in, how that very room is where so much of our nation's beginnings started, right? In the early 1700s, before there was a constitution, before there's a declaration of independence, that's where Virginia, that's where so much of our nation began in that very room.

35:43KFA:And I just, you know, it's, she just like set the tone of really what, what is going on and where we are. And, and she talked about how important really what we're fighting for is. It is for this country. It is because we all ultimately love this country and And we all really love what it stands for. And we are all patriots. We've just gotten so divided. And she was just, she talked frankly and told the truth. And she told people exactly what they're experiencing, what they're feeling and what they're hearing. And I just thought, wow, she is the real deal. She is someone you can trust. She's someone you can listen to.

36:20KFA:And she, I thought, was incredibly effective. You know, she didn't just make things like, oh, it's the greatest economy of all time. She backed it up with numbers and statistics and talked about real, actual evidence and real, actual facts. And, you know, she didn't just say, oh, no one's ever seen anything like it before. This is the greatest thing ever, the way Trump does, right? She just kind of told people what's going on. And it was, I think, a legitimate State of the Union. I think if you want to know the State of our Union, listen to her 17-minute rebuttal. and I think we need more of her and more of people like her and and Mikey Sherrill who you said yeah when when they were both elected and I heard both their speeches I was like oh my god I had a girl crush on both of them and they're just great they're fantastic and they're the kind of people that I really look up to and think are the future of this country and of this nation and I think it was incredibly effective and I'm so glad and honored that uh that she did that on behalf of the American people.

37:26Popok:I totally agree. I love everything about her. The attorney, up right now on Legal Half YouTube channel is my interview with the attorney general of Virginia, who was in the room just off camera from her, swept in along with her, first black attorney general in the history of Virginia. And we have a really great briefing for our audience about how Virginia is going to lead here. And I joked at the end, I said, well, our first president came for Virginia, maybe our next one will. And I just kind of left it as to which between the two of them. By the way, they'd be a great team together if that ever were to happen.

38:02But you mentioned

38:04Popok:that the Epstein survivors were in the room. One of them was my client, Lisa Phillips. And of course, Trump and his administration, no one in the FBI, no one in the Department of Justice has ever met with them, has ever spoken to them. It's very hard to conduct an investigation when you haven't met with the victims. Trump won't acknowledge them. He won't meet with them. And he was too busy celebrating the old boys network of the men's Olympic team, which kind of went down a few notches for me. You know, I'm a kid that was 14 when the miracle on the ice happened. And, you know, Arruzioni scores the goal in the first time, second time in American history, we win the gold medal.

38:47Popok:And, you know, and then you see these yahoos, you know, celebrating with Kash Patel, swigging, swigging out of a bottle and wearing a gold medal around his neck, stolen valor once again, this administration, and then allowing, you know, frankly, nobody stood up for the female Olympic team, which is actually better than the male Olympic team in terms of their success. And allow Donald Trump to get away with yet another misogynist comment about all often invite the women too, you know, I'll be impeached if I don't. It's like, oh my God, everything he says that comes out of his mouth, I've got to put my hand, if not that my daughter's old enough to listen, I got to put my hands around my daughter's ears, you know, because he's so immoral and so disgusting, which the American people are onto now.

39:30Popok:That's a good thing. The American people are onto it. So the Epstein files, we've got a new development related to the Epstein files.

39:36KFA:By the way, before you go on to the Epstein files, I just have to talk about the hockey team because you have to understand my family is a huge hockey family. We're not huge sports people. Certainly, I'm not a huge sports person. The only sport I love is hockey, and we watch a lot of hockey. My husband played hockey, and every member of my family loves hockey. And so leading up to this, there's this great kind of docuseries called Face Off, and we watched every episode where they talk about the life story of so many of the people, so many of the Olympians who played both on the Canadian and the USA team.

40:11KFA:And so many of them are such good guys. And they talked about the Gaudreau brothers who were tragically killed last year. And, you know, it was just a lot went into this. And I agree with you. One of the greatest movies of all time was Miracle on Ice. And I remember that too, right? The 1980 US Olympic hockey team. So this felt like that kind of a win. It was really exciting for us. And I agree with you that what happened with Kash Patel and then Donald Trump and this team was so disappointing and so upsetting on an emotional level. Because really, if you know the story of Johnny Goudreau and Johnny Hockey and just these players and what good guys they are and where they come from and Jack Hughes, who scored the winning goal in overtime for the United States, his bomb actually is the coach, one of the coaches of the women's team.

41:09KFA:And the women's team chose not to go. I mean, there's just a lot there. And so it was personally disappointing that they didn't stand up. And like I said, five of them didn't show up, and I respect that. But it was really upsetting on a personal level, the men's hockey team there.

41:30Popok:Trump wrapped himself in a flag wrapped around the Olympic team, and they allowed him to make them into props. and or they agreed and they thought it was funny, his locker room humor, which is not funny, attacking women and demeaning them. And the other thing for me is we've got new reporting that came out today that Cash Patel is so busy running around spending taxpayer dollars, that trip cost$100 ,000 on just the personal jet, so busy running around on the personal jet that it's interfering with investigations. There's new reporting that they were slow on the Brown University shooting and the Charlie Kirk shooting because he's so busy with his girlfriend or other things running around on the personal jet instead of doing his business.

42:19KFA:Right. They only have the FBI has two jets, apparently, and he's out running around doing personal things like like this and not showing up, not so they can't show up to crime scenes. And by the way, not that we wanted it to

42:32Popok:happen. I don't want Democrats or not are not the Grim Reaper. I don't wish this on there. But could you imagine if something tragic had happened at the same moment or around the same moment as Kash Patel was swigging beer or champagne with a gold medal and partying with them? How about if we had another mass shooting? How about if we had another Charlie Kirk on the other side? How about fill in the blank? And where is he? That's why you don't do that. And from a prosecutor standpoint and from a federal lawyer standpoint, we have a name for what we're watching with this administration besides kleptocracy.

43:06Popok:It's called theft of honest service. They're not doing their job.

43:12KFA:I couldn't help but wonder while he was in that locker room doing that whole beer thing, and it was just repulsive actually watching him. I couldn't help but wonder how does Savannah Guthrie and her family feel that he's not out there trying to help find her mother, you know, right? Instead, he's partying, you know, with the Olympians.

43:33Popok:I mean, what's the connection between the FBI and the hockey team? Right, exactly.

43:37KFA:He's just using this.

43:38Popok:This is this is a kid who never got any attention from his parents or some other psychological thing happened to him. And now he gets to be now the high school quarterback is paying attention to the little nerdy kid in the corner. Oh, I get to be in the locker room and celebrate like I played hockey. Like, no, you get to be the FBI director that you're woefully unqualified for. But, you know, don't you know, it's like saying I got to go backstage. Like, no, actually, you don't. Why are you there? Right. Why are you in the locker room? So true. So it's just disgusting.

44:13KFA:Anyway, thank you for letting me go on my little hockey talk. But I just.

44:16Popok:Something I learned about you, which I did not know about.

44:19KFA:I was just so upset about this.

44:20Popok:In fact, I think we should change the lower third tonight. I think it should be breaking. Karen Freeman Ignifolo reveals that she is a secret hockey fan her whole life.

44:33KFA:It's just hockey. Hockey is just, it's actually a really great sport. It is. It's one of my favorite live sports. And the players are just these humble, good guys as opposed to like, whatever. It's just of all the professional athletes and fans, I just love hockey. So that was my whole family.

44:51Popok:And then they blew it. And by the way, he had plenty of opportunities to celebrate other things. Well, if we're in the mode of I need to distract from my state of the union and my woeful performance, and you want to even stay in the Olympics, how about Lindsey Vonn, who almost lost a leg trying to persevere as an American patriot wearing the USA Journal. How about Michaela Schifrin and winning her gold medal to kind of rewrite a lot of women besides the women's hockey team, in addition to them, that you could have pointed to instead of the –

45:26KFA:Alyssa Gow, like, you know, the skater. It was just – Oh, I love her. I love her. I love her. That was amazing.

45:33Popok:Won't even acknowledge her.

45:35KFA:Of course not. Of course not. But she was unbelievable. By the way, it reminds me of the time I learned that you were basically a pro dart player, right?

45:44Popok:Yeah, in college. I played on the Metropolitan Dart League.

45:47KFA:And what was your dart playing name again?

45:50Popok:Vic. I had my own sign-in name. Vic, yes.

45:57KFA:That's just, that's legal AF gold.

46:00Popok:Seriously, that's what you learned. All right, good night, everybody. All right. So with that, let's move on to Epstein. So we learn now, as we suspected, that Donald Trump, FBI, DOJ, scrubbed references to Donald Trump after lying to the American people. See, this is why at least Bondi and Todd Blanchard are going to be impeached when the Democrats return to office and take over the House because they just lied to the American people. And that three-page cover letter, hey, everybody, we're releasing three million pages and we didn't do any redaction for any kind of embarrassment factor or because of somebody's political role.

46:46Popok:Yes, you did. In fact, and this is an allegation, but it made its way to a PowerPoint that apparently got left behind and nobody's investigating. The NPR, of all things, which Donald Trump has tried to crush, comparing the pile of documents that were produced in the Maxwell, Ghislaine Maxwell prosecution, to what was up on the library available to the public for the Epstein files, the ones that were done. they found a lot of mismatch. They found a lot of things missing, including a material witness for Ghislaine Maxwell, one of which claimed that when she was 13 years old, Donald Trump tried to force her to perform oral sex.

47:31Popok:She bit him and he assaulted her. Now, I don't know if that's true or not, but that is in the pile of material. And she was a material witness, even though I'm not sure she took the stand, in the Ghislaine Maxwell. There's actually a PowerPoint for follow-up where that, along with other witnesses who made claims against Donald Trump, there was a PowerPoint about what needed to be followed up on that wasn't. See, now we're back to, and we'll get there again when we get to Judge Cannon. It was Joyce Vance, by the way, who wrote the Substack article. I knew it would come to me eventually. Joyce Vance put it perfectly.

48:09Popok:The DOJ is Donald Trump's personal private law firm, and his favorite judge is Aileen Cannon. And so both have exhibited a lack of independence in process. Pam Bondi, I'd love to get her back. I'm actually going to whisper this in the ear of some senator that I interview, like Blumenthal or something, or Jamie Raskin on Congress. Say to her, how did you come to the conclusion? Show me the provision of the special counsel's law, Department of Justice Manual, where you concluded that there was no ethical conflict so that you did not have to appoint a special counsel to investigate all things Epstein when it was clear that your patron, your boss, is implicated in one way or the other in the relationship or the files.

49:03Popok:How did you come to that conclusion? How did you decide not to appoint a special counsel so that it's not you and Todd Blanche who work and are not independent working for Donald Trump? Walk me through your process because she should have appointed a special counsel, right? I may not like the special counsel rule in all of its iterations. I may have objected to having Robert Herr talk about Biden in his dotage, who was just a nice guy. If he wasn't so senile, I probably would have indicted him. I mean, I had to sit through that. We had to take that and hours of testimony in Congress and the audio tapes perhaps being revealed.

49:44Popok:So why wasn't there an independent counsel being appointed here? And now you see the reason. They would have pointed this out. They would be investigating and they would be reporting back to the American people. So, and then you've got Europe again leading the way about the Epstein files. I just ran a video of the Irish Parliament now effectively going to be demanding that the Epstein files be released so that they can go after the rich and powerful predators who are involved. We came on the air. Larry Sumners is out at Harvard. We knew that was coming. You know, people in business, in law, in the royal family, in academia, in Hollywood, everywhere but Trump world are being brought to justice.

50:34Popok:And Europe and Canada and the others are leading the way. And states are leading the way. Like New Mexico is opening up. Hey, they figured out they got a potential pedophile ranch being operated there. And so they're going after it. That's why we have to rely on the state attorneys general to kind of go after and follow up on these particular leads. But you've been a sex abuse prosecutor. So from your perspective, the revelation that Donald Trump's name got scrubbed and that they're not following these leads. How does that hit you?

51:02KFA:Yeah. I mean, first of all, I love Joyce Vance. I'm glad you brought her up. And anyone who doesn't subscribe to her sub stack should. She's really just one of the smarter people who comments and provides information on all the topics that we talk about. And I'm a big fan. Um, so these, the, this, this allegation, um, is stunning to me because essentially what happened was this woman was 13 at the time, between 13 and 15. She's not entirely sure exactly how old she was, but the range of time, she was either 13, 14 or 15 when it happened. She didn't come forward until 2019 when Jeffrey Epstein was arrested because she knew she was assaulted and raped and trafficked by someone named Jeff.

51:57KFA:But she didn't know because she was so young who it was. And when he was arrested, she said, oh my God, this is the guy who did this to me. She came forward and was interviewed not once, not twice, not three times, but four times by the FBI. guy. And when she said, I still have a picture saved on my phone of, of, of Epstein and of who it was. And, and one of the guys that he was with who also assaulted me, but I want to X out the, I want to X out the, the other guy in the picture because, and they said, well, why, why do you want to, why do you want to black that out? And she said, because I'm afraid, I'm afraid of retribution.

52:40KFA:I only came forward because Epstein has already been arrested. I'm afraid to come forward. Who is the other guy? It was Donald Trump. So this is the opposite of someone who's looking out to kind of get Trump. She's actually trying to hide what happened to her because she's afraid of Trump. Okay, that's the opposite of someone who has an ax to grind or someone who's going out to, you know, is anti-Trump. That's number one. Number two, of these four interviews, one, the first interview where she talks about Epstein but didn't talk about Trump. She talked about Trump allegedly in those second, third, and fourth interviews.

53:20KFA:They released the first one. At least that's what the reporting is. Because don't forget they take out the names of the individuals, et cetera. But based on the timing, based on serial numbers associated with the logs of the documents and the FBI reports, the reporting is they piece together that one of these talks about what she said happened with Epstein. But again, she was too afraid to come forward against Trump. Now, the allegation, as you said, was he, you know, he tried to make her perform oral sex on her. He exposed himself and she bit him and he viciously and brutally beat her. That's the allegation.

54:07KFA:And they are not releasing that. They have not confirmed or denied it. What they are saying is, oh, no, we've released everything. We didn't hide anything from embarrassment, et cetera. But they did say, DOJ did say, however, that we, if there's an ongoing investigation, we're withholding things. I wouldn't hold my breath. That's why they were withholding this, that they're actually investigating Donald Trump. I think she her fear and her fear that that she wouldn't that that there could be some kind of retribution or retaliation, et cetera, is probably well founded. But I think this is a story that cannot go away.

54:49KFA:I think people have to demand that this be released. And frankly, the courage she showed to come forward and now what she sees is happening. and the fact that nothing is happening. I mean, I agree with you that there is some accountability in that people are losing their jobs, right? Whether it's the, you know, Brad Karp at Paul Weiss or Larry Summers at Harvard or other few people are losing their jobs as a result of this. There's no prosecutions, right? Who's making arrests? The, you know, the UK, you know, they're arresting, you know, Prince Andrew, former Prince Andrew. He hasn't been charged, but he's been arrested.

55:25KFA:Other countries are making arrests. that's what the American people want to see, not just people losing their job. They want to see people actually be investigated and prosecuted. And the only people that were investigated and prosecuted were Ghislaine Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein. And there was a document out there, a draft indictment that had six co-conspirators. And I think people should demand to know who those are and what's going on with those investigations. And the fact that the Epstein survivors have not been interviewed by this Department of Justice and this FBI tells you two things. Number one, they aren't coming forward anymore to this FBI because they know, first of all, they're terrified and afraid I would be too.

56:12KFA:And they know that nothing's going to happen. They're not going to hold powerful people accountable. But it's more telling that no one's reaching out to them. Because if I was a prosecutor and there was these allegations and I knew that there was these victims and there was 3 million documents that talk about all the things that happened, I would be absolutely reaching out, opening my door and saying, please come in and tell me what happened. And I'd be investigating these claims. But the fact that there's no real investigation, I think just shows and the fact that Donald Trump didn't even acknowledge the survivors in his state of the union didn't even mention this at all He's gonna try to pretend like this is not part of the story of the state of our union right now that this is not going on But the American people aren't gonna let this go away There is this is a massive cover-up of not just pedophiles, but sexual assault of powerful people who are sexually assaulting women and girls and And there was many, many, many, many powerful people who either participated in that or enabled it or financed it or facilitated it or looked the other way or covered it up.

57:21KFA:And hopefully nobody will stop demanding answers until we finally have the full picture. and again he he can try he can not mention it in his in his state of the union um you know his uh his like show because that's what it was it was a show in his performance but that doesn't mean that it's not on top of everybody's mind and i applaud the survivors for being there and having the courage to keep and continually showing their faces and saying we're here we're available

57:56Popok:Yeah, one of the reasons I wanted to cover the State of the Union, address legal AF, is my client was inside and I wanted to honor the Epstein survivors. I mean, I am all about counter-programming and turning our back on a ruthless, immoral, unethical criminal president. but you know there were people in the room that needed to be honored and so that was sort of my point at the time so I certainly agree with with uh with your approach here let's talk about um Donald Trump's inability apparently to get grand juries and or prosecutors to indict his political critics it's a long list now now we can add six members of Congress led by Senators Mark Kelly and Elise Slotkin, to the list that includes Letitia James, New York Attorney General, Adam Schiff, Senator of California, James Comey, former FBI Director, James Brennan, the former head of the CIA, you name it.

59:00Popok:The only person that's got, is John Bolton. The only person that's gotten actually indicted is John Bolton. And listen, wherever the chips fall, if you have a proper prosecutor and you got proper evidence against them, you know what? He'll have his day in court, but everybody else, they can't just, they can't get a grand jury to indict. Now we thought it was, I thought my, it was so eyebrow raising. I thought my eyebrows were going to float away off my head when we heard that they were trying to get an indictment through the D.C. U.S. Attorney's Office led by Janine Pirro, formerly of Judge Janine or whatever she was on, and against Kelly and Slockett and four others for doing a 90-second public service ad expressing their First Amendment rights to remind fellow members of the military, because they're all former members of the military, that they have an obligation and sworn oath to uphold the Constitution and not follow illegal or unconstitutional orders.

1:00:04Popok:Now, there is a statute on the books that says if you interfere with armed services, morale, discipline, chain of command, that type of thing, you can be prosecuted for a crime up to 10 years. No one's ever prosecuted under this. And there's rigorous First Amendment protections around that, especially when somebody like Senator Mark Kelly is on the Armed Services Committee. Providing oversight to the military. So we had two things break out, right? You had Janine Pirro trying to prosecute them and going to a grand jury and having that grand jury 10 days ago say, nope, we're not prosecuting these people.

1:00:41Popok:And then you had Pete Hegseth start a process to sanction and censure Mark Kelly as a retired naval officer, take away his pension, his stripes, all this other stuff. Kelly runs the federal court, gets Judge Richard Leon, who issues an injunction, says his First Amendment rights are being violated by any effort as a retired member of the military. He has lots of First Amendment rights, especially since he's a sitting senator. Hexeth goes off and takes an appeal on that. That's a loser. But at the same time, you've got this grand jury thing. Now, I thought maybe they'd try and try again. That's not what happened, right?

1:01:22Popok:Right, Karen? Right.

1:01:25KFA:The reporting is they're abandoning it. I think they're cutting their losses and they don't want to end up like another Letitia James situation or Jim Comey where they keep indicting over and over and over again until they find someone who will do it and then it obviously gets dismissed. So we'll see. We'll see what ends up happening. But for now, they're abandoning it. I think they realize that the public sentiment is not there. These are sitting members of Congress. These are heroes. Mark Kelly's a hero. He's an astronaut. He's a former military. He's married to Gabby Gifford. I mean, these are not people, this is not going to go over very well.

1:02:06KFA:And so I think they're cutting their losses and moving on, thankfully. Yeah.

1:02:13Popok:And look, another federal prosecutor's office could pick it up. But every time Donald Trump wants to do something underhanded or politicized, he runs the Jeanine Pirro. She's the same person that's investigating Federal Reserve Chairman Jay Powell for cost overruns about 200-year-old buildings that have to be renovated. and she won't drop it despite the fact that at least one senator who's on the committee that has to approve and confirm the next person on the Federal Reserve under Donald Trump, Tom Tillis, has said, I am not, and he can block it alone with his one vote based on the, the, how the committee is, is, is formed or composed and comprised.

1:03:00Popok:And he said, I'm not, If you don't drop the investigation and get that cloud off of Jay Powell's head, I am not going to vote for Donald. Because Donald Trump's already got a guy that he wants to get on the Federal Reserve and then elevate in May when Jay Powell's term is over as chairman. He stays on for another two years and tells us and said, nope, I'm not doing that until you drop it. And Jeanine Pirro's like, well, it's not my fault. It's because we sent nasty letters during Christmas. Nobody responded. So we had to get a subpoena. Like, what? What? It's just mind-boggling to me how feckless the Department of Justice is and the people in it are just willing to do and say anything, regardless of what it means for their future bar license or impeachment proceedings.

1:03:43Popok:Everybody proceeds at their own risk when they work for Donald Trump. Because if you're not named Donald Trump and you have a license, you have a career, and you don't have criminal immunity, you don't have any of those things. And so you're all, you know, one misstep, one more misstep away from being impeached and removed or indicted and prosecuted. And yet that doesn't seem to stop them at all. I have a working theory, which I'm going to develop more on a series of hot takes, that based on the Supreme Court bashing that Donald Trump has done, which he cannot recover from, you can't take back a low blow.

1:04:29Popok:You know, you're a hockey fan, I'm a boxing fan. You hit somebody below the belt a couple of times, okay, you can't take that back, okay, especially when it's intentional. It's a, what do they call it in some sport? An intentional foul, you know, a grade one foul or whatever it is. Can't take that back. And so the immunity decision exists, but you and I spent a considerable amount of time along with Ben analyzing it 70 or 80 or 100 pages. And we saw a lot of loopholes and murky language and things that weren't exactly clear that could easily be the subject of a future immunity decision where they fix a lot of the problems, just like they tried to continuously fix Roe versus Wade until they finally just got rid of it after 50 years and taking away a woman's right to choose.

1:05:19My theory is that Trump will do things

1:05:24Popok:that will be criminal and may not be within and to test the limits of that immunity decision, the future Department of Justice under a Democrat, be that Spanberger, be that Gavin Newsom, or people we haven't even thought of yet, whoever gets through the process, that Department of justice could try to bring an immunity case and try to indict Trump. Then it's up to Trump to try to use the immunity decision to say, I've been immunized, but not for everything. And so then you test the limits, giving the Supreme Court the opportunity to perhaps put part of the genie back into the lamp and fix the problems with their immunity decision, having now seen what Donald Trump did with it in a lawless way for four years.

1:06:16Popok:So there may be five votes if an indictment comes up. I mean, a federal judge, let's say a federal judge dismisses it. Okay, goes up to the United States Supreme Court. And the DOJ at that time will have to argue why they believe their indictment survives the application of the immunity decision. And that gives the immunity decision people the opportunity to roll it back, to reframe it, to walk it back. That's a fantasy of mine, but I think it could be a reality. I'll develop that more. What do you think about that, though?

1:06:48KFA:I think Trump will say, I pardoned myself in my mind.

1:06:54Popok:Well, that's true. But you know what? Force him to do that and to have that stain and that scar that he felt he had to pardon himself. I might even live with that. But if the indictment starts after, you mean he had a pocket? So we'll have a fight over the pocket pardon.

1:07:12KFA:I hope you're right. I mean, because the immunity decision was so wrongly decided, so much more dangerous than Sotomayor's dissent said it could be and would be. I mean, I don't think anyone envisioned how bad and how rogue he could go and how lawless he could be.

1:07:32Popok:But the only way they could address it, because some people have said, can't they just issue another ruling, it has to be about presidential immunity. They can mention it in a side note and something else and try to clarify, but it really would have to be they get an indictment that's been dismissed or something or a motion to dismiss, and then they go, you know what, here's an opportunity to go under the hood and fix something that we did now that we've seen how one person used it. We didn't anticipate it. So that's something I'm really hoping about. But listen, when we come back, let's talk about some other developments that are out there at the intersection of law and politics that you and I like to talk about.

1:08:12Popok:But before we do that, including Judge Cannon and her lack of what I consider to be independence, but let's first take a quick break, tell people how to support what we do here on Legal AF, the podcast. Legal AF, the YouTube channel. We are well over 1 million subscribers. In fact, we're about to get our 1 million subscriber plaque. Yeah, I've been waiting on this plaque for a long time. Take it in your honor. Take it in the honor of our audience from YouTube. And we've got a paid membership level and a regular membership level. We're completely people-powered. No outside investors. Now's the time to subscribe to Legal AF YouTube and keep us on the air.

1:08:54Popok:Legal AF Substack, what an amazing audience. And there are people like Joyce Vance and Michael Popock and Legal AF that are up on Legal AF Substack. Go explore it. Become a member. Become a paid member. I'm running a sale right now to help us out there. And those are the two ways. Third way is to support the podcast and keep us at the top of the charts on audio versions or on YouTube like we do here every Wednesday and Saturday. And then, of course, we got our pro-democracy sponsors. And here's a break to hear from them. Are you looking for a smarter way to unwind? Soul makes feeling good simple.

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1:12:26Popok:We never want to be taken off. We always want to be here for you. And with your help, we will. We framed today's episode around both the state of the union, what I like to call the shut the F up of America. And also this observation that the Department of Justice, the most corrupt in history, is also Donald Trump's private law firm, doesn't do things that are independent, quite the opposite. And we also have one particular judge that seems to go out of her way to make rulings that are in Donald Trump's favor. This one does ultimately screws the Department of Justice, I believe, in other arguments that they are making about like Lindsay Halligan and the indictment of James Comey that they're trying to salvage at the appellate court, while at the same time arguing to Judge Cannon that the Mar-a-Lago, what we call volume two for shorthand of the Jack Smith report, a couple hundred pages that he worked on and finished like every other special counsel, like every special counsel as required by the statute to deliver that volume to the attorney general who then almost always, except in this case, just releases it to the American people.

1:13:38Popok:Volume one got out already, but volume two was under the jurisprudence and jurisdiction of Judge Cannon because she made it so, subject to the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals. So what happens? There's no adverse party here. There's no adversary process. This is why it's a fraud. she gets together Trump, his Department of Justice, which he owns, and the co-defendants in the Mar-a-Lago case and says, hey, guys, should we bury forever the Mar-a-Lago volume two report? Yes, Jack Smith was illegally appointed and you found that. And his indictment was invalid because he wasn't confirmed by the Senate.

1:14:23Popok:That's interesting because that's the exact opposite position they're taking with Lindsay Halligan. And you should never let it see the light of day, and you should actually make an order binding the future Department of Justice. So it never goes into the trash can of history. Now, normally, if a judge wanted to have any semblance of independence and an appearance of propriety, they would turn to another party in the room, who's on the other side of the issue, and say, what do you think? Well, what did Aileen Cannon to. I think kind of too. She blocked the door. She locked the door to allow any other parties in to or at the door to oversight public interest groups, the Knight Foundation for First Amendment for First Amendment and American Oversight.

1:15:10Popok:He said, oh, no, no, you're strangers to this transat. You're strangers to this proceeding. You're out. You're out. So no, I don't want to hear from you. No, no. But judge. No, no, no. You might make good arguments. I don't want you to I don't want to hear from you. You're out. So they had to go to the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals. and the 11th Circuit is now kind of going to decide whether they should be in or out. So now she's left everybody on one side of the room. She has nobody pushing for the opposite side in our adversarial process. Now, what should she have done, Karen? We know exactly what the judge in New York did about the dismissal of the Eric Adams, Mayor Adams indictment.

1:15:42Popok:When the Department of Justice is captured by the presidency and there's no one to argue the other side, what does a federal judge do? You remember, you appoint, a independent officer of the court, whether you want to call him a special counsel or whatever, to give you advice. So in that case, he, so there'd be, because he looked around, he said, there's nobody resisting, there's nobody advocating for the other side. That's not our system. So he appointed Paul Clement, the former Solicitor General under George W. Bush, to give the court advice as an officer of the court. Did Cannon do that? I'll turn it over to you, Karen.

1:16:23KFA:Nope, she didn't. Okay, good night, everybody. I know, I know. This was like 15 or so page ruling on her part that was just, she might be the most partisan, the most in the bag federal judge there is. even even Kazmarek in Texas I think she she even I think beats him in terms of her lawless decision making and the fact that she is just bending over backwards for Donald Trump and she permanently barred the Department of Justice from releasing this report she used words you know she she personally criticized Jack Smith she said this was a a brazen stratagem by compiling this detailed report even after I ruled in July that the appointment was unconstitutional and dismissed and you spent taxpayer dollars doing it.

1:17:20KFA:And, you know, she, here's a quote, special counsel Smith and his team went ahead for months undeterred preparing the report using discovery collected in connection with this proceeding and expending government funds in the process. To say this chronology represents at a minimum, a concerning breach of the spirit of the dismissal order is an understatement, if not an outright violation of it. You know, she's just, she said, releasing the report now would contravene basic notions of fairness and justice and amount to a manifest injustice because the case never reached a jury. And, you know, she says, well, it's true, formal, former special counsels have released final reports at the conclusion of their work.

1:17:58KFA:It appears they have done so either after electing to not bring charges at all or after adjudication of guilt by plea or trial, but she couldn't find a situation similar to this. She doesn't at all acknowledge the fact that, okay, because the law requires special counsel, any special counsel to do a report. Jack was following the law. And by the way, she's the only judge who has ruled that a special counsel is invalid. And so it's kind of outrageous what she did. She said, this was, I found interesting. She said, releasing the report would cause, irreparable harm to the president. And I had to scratch my head and say, why?

1:18:42KFA:Are the facts that bad? Is it that bad what Jack Smith found that this would be irreparable harm? In some ways, this is just an admission that these facts are so bad because if they wouldn't, why would anyone try to hide it? Why wouldn't Trump be saying, why wouldn't he say, put the facts out there, transparency. I did nothing wrong, but he's not. He's doing everything he can to bury this because he doesn't want anyone to see what the facts are because the facts are that bad and that harmful. And from the little that we did see from the indictment and from what we could see when the case was brought, this wasn't just a, oops, I had some documents and didn't realize it.

1:19:21KFA:This was, this was not only multiple efforts to try and obstruct getting those documents back to the archives where they belong and returning them. And he was given multiple opportunities to do it. There were lies. He lied to his lawyers. He lied to government officials. And just the way he kept these things. And some were hidden, some were just in unlocked storage rooms spilling out all over the floor. Anyone could have access to them. Some where he was waving them around and bragging about them to people who don't have top secret clearance. I mean, the facts are really, really bad. This was a deliberate attempt on his part to not only steal our nation's greatest secrets, but to then keep them and use them improperly.

1:20:14KFA:And so I think they have a lot to hide here. And that's why they don't want this to ever be released. And she's doing everything she can to try and help this administration. She is MAGA all the way. And she is the least judicial judge. You're supposed to kind of sit on top and not be partisan and call balls and strikes. This is another defense attorney in the room, and now another prosecutor, since the prosecutor is the Department of Justice. So as you said, Popak, the fact that she didn't invite anyone else to give another perspective, the other perspective to help the court is highly unusual.

1:20:57KFA:And the fact that she would criticize Jack Smith for doing exactly what the law required him to do, which is to write this report, and that they are all hiding this, I think history is not going to look favorably upon this. And I'm hoping somehow, some way, this report sees the light of day someday.

1:21:14Popok:Yeah, I think what I'm hoping will happen procedurally is that the 11th Circuit has the final word. They're still having watched again Eileen Cannon interfere with the future executive branch. They already punished her twice, reversed her twice on interfering with the executive branch and controlled by Biden at the time in doing their investigation and prosecution of Trump. Before it was even a prosecution, it was just an investigation. She tried to interfere on it based on a search warrant. And they said, you can't do that. Stay in your lane. You're a judiciary. You're not executive branch. And so they didn't like that.

1:21:55Popok:And here, what is she doing it all over again? It's just another version of interfering with the executive branch, except the future executive branch by tying the hands of the incoming attorney general about what they can and cannot do and can and cannot release. I don't think the 11th Circuit is going to like it. And their quickest fix for it would be to reverse her decision to ban the involvement of American Oversight and the Knight Center for First Amendment rights. get them into the case, let them make their argument, which she will obviously reject and won't reconsider, then take that up on appeal for the whole thing.

1:22:34Popok:Right now, the 11th Circuit may want to say something, but there's no appeal avenue because, again, as we said at the top of the segment, everybody's sitting on one side of the table. There's no one on the other side. Who's going to appeal? The Department of Justice, run by Trump, wanted this decision, proposed it. It's exactly from their motion, including the language about the future Department of Justice, which we caught, circled, did hot takes on. We knew this was happening. It's all choreographed. The only problem is while I'm able to choreograph certain things in a courtroom, I'm never able to choreograph the judge.

1:23:11Popok:And here, it looks like they can. So we have to get an appeal avenue. The cleanest appeal route is by the 11th Circuit reversing her, telling her she has to consider the arguments made by the Knight Center and by American Oversight. than when she says, well, yeah, I'm not changing anything that I wrote, most of which she spent trying to chastise Jack Smith. I mean, it really called me to watch her go after Jack Smith and say he was lawless and he was rogue. Lawless and rogue? You mean like Donald Trump? Talk about gaslighting. Oh, he worked overtime to finish his report before his term was over.

1:23:54Popok:Have you read the independent counsel, special counsel statute, he has to prepare a report. He can't say, well, I was going to prepare the report and comply with the statute, deliver it to my boss, the attorney general. But I don't know, this lady down, this judge lady down in Miami, you know, or Fort Pierce seems to have it in for me. So I'll just won't do it. I just won't do it. You know, she, he didn't have to get her permission in the executive branch to complete his job. Again, a blind spot, a healthy blind spot, not understanding separation of powers, which has got her into trouble twice before.

1:24:32Popok:So I think the 11th Circuit is going to make its own path here to communicate, get that up, and we'll watch it. You and I will follow it. I guess by the end note here, I don't think we've heard the last of this particular issue, and I'm not yet ready to say permanently she's banned future attorneys general from releasing this particular report. I mean, people say, why does it matter? It's in the future. I don't know. Donald Trump's releasing the JFK shooting reports and UFOs now. I mean, it matters, you know, that we ultimately that we speak to history. You know, when I interviewed the attorneys general, 12 of them, for the Democrats last week, and now we're putting up that content over the last couple of days, there's one in particular that I liked.

1:25:20Popok:In fact, I'll make a note to our producers to make sure we clip that, is when Chris Mays, the amazing attorney general, no pun intended, of Arizona, who I hope also wants to go into higher office. I'm glad she's an attorney general right now, but she's certainly ready, a former Republican, by the way, certainly ready to represent the Democrats. She said she believes that our

1:25:49Popok:foreparents are speaking to us now, people in this era, and she hears them about defending the Constitution, that this is the moment like no other in our history. And she just put it, I'm butchering it. She put it so beautifully, it'll be up soon. I think we got that panel going up tomorrow. But the fact that she believes that not only do we stand on the shoulders of our founders and framers and those that defended the rule of law and democracy and put this, but that she hears them and communes with them and is animated and motivated by them. It's so perfect. I feel that way. I feel like that if I ever get to heaven and I get to have that perfect dinner that I've always wanted with like George Washington, like Jefferson, Elvis, I know you'll have, I don't know, Cam Neely or something sitting around the table, that I'll get to ask him all these amazing questions.

1:26:53Popok:And I want them to say to me, Popak, we got to just tell you, big fans, what you've done from your slender perch of being a podcaster to help defend democracy. And, you know, even as a fantasy, it's one that gets me up in the morning. What about you, Karen?

1:27:09KFA:I think Prince would be at my table. The more I talk to you and learn about you, the more fascinated I am about what you like and who would be at your dinner or on a desert island. Freddie Mercury. Oh. Prince. Those are my.

1:27:28Popok:And then I'd have like sitting next to Einstein.

1:27:30KFA:My grandmother. Yeah.

1:27:31Popok:Oh, yeah. It was like, well, I certainly have my parents there. But, you know, like Einstein next to Elvis. Prince. I mean, just. But I would definitely have. You know, I've always been enamored with Abraham Lincoln. Alexander Hamilton. Yeah, Hamilton, although you probably want Linda and Well to be playing him in the reality. Like, you know, Abraham Lincoln. I mean, how many book reports did I write about Abraham Lincoln and George Washington? But anyway, we've reached the end. Before we beander more, we've reached the end of another, hopefully, entertaining yet educational and fulfilling episode of Legal AF, the podcast with Karen Freeman-Nignifolo and Michael Popok.

1:28:15Popok:Only one place on your listening and watching Dial the Midas Touch Network. Take a minute and help us out. If you like our videos, which we know you do because we see the numbers, if we could just get 10 % of those people to also subscribe for free on Legal AF YouTube channel or hit subscribe on the podcast, leave comments. It would really go a long way to ensuring our survival, I guess is the right way to put it. And we do appreciate all of you. Come over to Legal AF Substack. What a great community there, including Legal AF with 10 new pieces of content every day at the intersection of law and politics.

1:28:52Popok:Appreciate all of you. Glad to always have my time. It's one of my jams to be with Karen Freeman Ignifilo and then Ben Micellis on Saturday. Appreciate you all. And thank you for watching. Shout out to the Midas Mighty and Illegal AFRAS.

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