Legal AF - 6/20/2026

18:00Michael Popok:Like, oh, he released it. He released it because we had an arms deal to sell to Iran. We never delivered the weaponry because we were at odds with them, but we kept the money. All Obama did was give them back money for weapons we never delivered and then released about$50 billion from another account. We're talking 10 times that, 30 times that, and taxpayer dollars being released to them. There is no doubt in my mind that the world believes that Donald Trump just lost the Iranian war. And more importantly, even MAGA believes it. You don't trot out J.D. Vance to go with Megyn Kelly or on The View to start pushing this narrative that Iran is a win, okay, which he's failing to do if you don't think you have a major political and PR problem.

18:53Michael Popok:And you put that, this will segue to something, I'm sure, against this spoon feeding that we're getting, this slow drip, drip, drip of the chapters and pages from Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan's book, Regime Change. You know, the first bombshell was they ran the article about the Situation Room being the site of the cover-up at the highest levels of the Trump administration of the Epstein files. But now we're getting all sorts of things about Iran, about, you know, every day I get another, I feel like I read the book already. It hasn't even been released. Right. And here's the thing, though.

19:30Ben Meiselas:I don't want this deal to fall apart because I don't want us to be in this war or more war. I don't want to see more death. I don't want to see more war crimes. I don't want, I want as much as I must obviously reflect on the reality that America lost the war, that this is a weaker deal than Obama's actual deal, because this isn't even a deal. It's an MOU. It has binding provisions, but it's not an actual deal like the JCPOA, which was, I think, over a thousand pages in length, which had very specific requirements and did a lot to specify how multilateral organizations and nations interacted. It brought in China.

20:16Ben Meiselas:It brought in Russia. It brought in Europe. It brought in Asia. It brought in all of these people. But I want, now that there is an MOU of all of the options, this to me is an option that reflects if you break something, you have to fix it. And that's what the U.S. did and lost. So let's abide by the MOU. But then as we talk through this episode, Michael Popak, about Donald Trump's behavior, even when we'll talk about what happened in this Virginia federal court where a judge is saying, ah, OK, we're hearing from the DOJ and Todd Blanche that you are not going forward with the J6 slush fund or this agreement that Donald Trump entered into with the Trump government.

21:05Ben Meiselas:the regime with this collusive settlement after some$10 billion lawsuit that was frivolous that Trump filed against the United States government. I don't know how I'm going to be able to explain this to my daughter like this era, but that's what happened. Okay, so just put it in writing so we all know that you're going to abide by the terms. Even if you put it in writing, we don't think that you'll abide by the term, but let's put it in writing and we'll talk about in the next segment that the Trump regime is like, no, we don't want to put it in writing. We're just going to tell you we're not going to go forward with it.

21:40Ben Meiselas:And so what Iran very sophisticatedly did in this 14-point memorandum of understanding, they built in mechanisms to test Trump at each level as you go down, with the first test being the Lebanon test, which Donald Trump has not been able to create a lasting ceasefire in Lebanon, which is something that Trump promised. And again, whatever your view on that, that's what it says in the agreement. You go down deeper and deeper and deeper into this agreement and you see these other terms. And we know that Trump is the ultimate contract breacher. And now Trump has trapped himself in this 14-point memorandum of understanding where his instinct is to do the Trump instinct, fraud, lie.

22:28Ben Meiselas:However, as he's admitted, we are days away from tank bottom when it comes to oil reserves. We are days away from global economic attack. Trump has said that publicly now. And so Iran heard him say that. Donald Trump showed that he may hold cards, but he's showing the worst hand ever to the world right now. And Iran holds the cards. Iran has worked with Oman to sophisticatedly build this authority to govern the Strait of Hormuz. They've been solidifying their alliances with China and elsewhere. And the U.S. is left alone. The analogies, and we'll talk about this as the episode continues, though, to Trump litigation, again, it's so on point.

23:16Ben Meiselas:Trump would try to throw everything at Abrego Garcia. And all Abrego did was stand up. And it's not all he did. It's impressive. And he's a hero that deserves far more attention than he's getting. But Abrego wins. E. Jean Carroll, she wins. Again, Alvin Bragg and Letitia James. You could go through all of these cases. If you just can deal with the Trump relentless, you will win the litigation. No doubt Iran saw that, and they know they can continue to wait him out. And he'll flail, and he'll project, and he'll do all of these things. But these are contract. This is our purview, Popak. This is contract principles.

23:56Ben Meiselas:Here's what the MOU says. You're going to follow it, or you're not going to. Here's the thing. There's not a lot of great. I read the MOU, the Trump regime tried to deny that there was this MOU or that the points were the points. But now that it's been published, we all see it. So you either follow it or you don't follow it with the ramifications being global catastrophe that are, you know, that that's right here. Let's talk more about that, Popak. I want to also now bring this into Virginia federal court because it ties right into what Trump's doing. I'm just going to defraud the court. Before we get in there, I want to remind everybody to please hit subscribe to our YouTube channel, but more importantly, subscribe to Michael Popok's YouTube channel.

24:36Ben Meiselas:It's called Legal AF. Obviously, you know that. It's the name of this podcast. Subscribe to Legal AF. Get Legal AF 2 million subscribers, the award-winning Legal AF, of course, winner of multiple Webby Awards. Subscribe on Substack to Legal AF as well. Go on Substack and search Legal AF. And then also, if you or somebody you know has been injured in like a car accident or a trucking accident or because of the negligence of others, if you're looking for a lawyer, Popak, Popak still practices law and he's got a firm that handles cases for legal AFers. Go to call 877-POPAK-AF or visit thepopakfirm.com.

25:13Ben Meiselas:The consultation is free. See if you have a case. Popak mostly handles catastrophic types of cases, real serious injuries. So if you or somebody who knows has been injured because of the negligence of someone else or a company or something, call 877-POPOC-AF or visit thepopocfirm.com. All right, let's take our first quick break of the show.

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28:50Ben Meiselas:Welcome back to Legal AF. Thank you to all of our sponsors who make this show possible. Link to the discount codes for those sponsors is in the description below. Make sure you subscribe to Legal AF on YouTube, on audio, and subscribe to the Midas Touch YouTube channel as well. All right, Popak, now that we've kind of, I think, set the framework for Donald Trump not being a deal maker, he's a deal destroyer. He uses negotiations to lure people into good faith discussions to sucker punch, right then if he is end up signing his name to something i think he said this in the art of the deal which he didn't even write is that for him the deal is not actually a binding document it's the beginning of a discussion as a tool to manipulate which is not what it should be um and i think this is why he's gone bankrupt so many times and he's bringing us on the brink of that as a country right now and there are many people not his right-wing oligarch friends who may be impacted soon, but the rest of the country who's feeling this pain right now, and they feel that they're a casualty of the Trump bankruptcy MO.

30:01Ben Meiselas:But let's talk about it in the context now of this Virginia case. And when Trump is refusing now to sign a very basic declaration that Judge Brinkema said, and arguing it's a separation of powers issue, Popak, which would seem to also mean that any judge order is a separation of powers issued to the Trump regime if it's a simple request? Talk to us about it.

30:23Michael Popok:Yeah, there's a number of things here. It shouldn't be the art of the deal. It's the art of deception. That's all Donald Trump perpetrates. And I got another way to tie things together that you and I are going to talk about in this segment, which is the Trump administration has made a decision. They do not want Todd Blanch, and he will not testify under oath in any case, even if it means the Department of Justice will lose that case. Let me repeat that. Trump has ordered Blanche not to testify in any case, even when ordered to do so, or it's obvious that he has to testify in order to salvage a case.

30:55Michael Popok:He would rather lose the case, dismiss the indictment, be found to have been vindictively prosecuting or committing a fraud on the court, than submit an affidavit. We've got a case involving two major cases involving the anti-weaponization fund, one in front of Judge Brinkama, which is brought by Democracy Forward on behalf of a very diverse group of plaintiffs. That is currently being indefinitely blocked, the fund by Judge Brinkama. We got the case, the companion case, I call it, the parallel case in front of Judge Williams in Miami. And yesterday was a red letter day for both of those cases because two major things happened in those cases.

31:36Michael Popok:And they actually – it's almost like call and response. They actually smartly, the lawyers, whether it was the lawyers for the 35 former federal judges in Miami or it was the democracy forward lawyers, they know about each other and they know what's going on in the respective courts. In Brinkama, the issue was she blocked the anti-weaponization fund. The Trump administration ran back in and said, you don't have to block anything because the case is moot. Because didn't you hear when Blanche was testifying in Congress, he said it was dead on arrival. Now, let me back up for a minute because this plays on the Miami case as well.

32:19Michael Popok:Allegedly, this was begun by a lawsuit between two adverse parties, according to the government, Donald Trump on one side and Donald Trump's own IRS on the other, with the Department of Justice in the middle. And they tried to argue to Judge Williams in Miami that that was not a collusive lawsuit because all these were independent parties. Therefore, the lawsuit was legit. The settlement of the lawsuit was legit. The Department of Justice unlocking the judgment fund to pay out under the slush fund was legit all under the imprimatur of the lawsuit. The problem with that is, as we've seen in the last couple of weeks, the only party or person that either amended the agreement or announced it was over was one party to the deal, not even a party to the deal, a guy named Todd Blanche for the Department of Justice.

33:10Michael Popok:So if you're not, if you're fully diverse or fully separated, you would have needed the Treasury Department, the Department of Justice and Donald Trump's lawyers to all announce the end of the deal. And you'd need those same three parties in order to amend the deal, which Todd Blanche did unilaterally the day after the deal was announced to give Donald Trump and his family a superimmunity. So the fact that Planch is acting unilaterally actually reinforces the argument that there is collusion because how could he do it all himself? Where are the other parties? So Judge Brinkham has said in her hearing, and we did a great set of reporting on that on Legal AF.

33:52I had Sky Perryman in an interview last week.

33:56Michael Popok:She was in the room because her organization had brought the case. And I had Adam Klassfeld from All Rise News who was in the room reporting. And so they all, we kind of put it together for our audience. And what Judge Brinkema said, when Andrew Block, the lawyer for the Department of Justice came in, who had just argued a similar case in front of Judge Leon in the District of Columbia, the ballroom judge, she said, this is how the hearing started. You're a very brave man to enter my courtroom with these arguments. That's how she started the hearing. And she eventually said to him, I read the transcript with Judge Leon, and you said that Todd Blanche had walked away from the deal.

34:35Michael Popok:Or have you spoken? At the time, Judge Leon asked you, had you spoken to Blanche recently? And you said you hadn't. All right, it's three days later. The eyes of the world are upon this case. I can't believe you haven't spoken to him since. And Blanche said, well, I really haven't spoken to him. I really don't know his opinion. He says, yeah, that's not going to do it. So here's what we're going to do. I'm going to block indefinitely the fund. And if the fund is really dead as you say it is, in terms of the balance of equities, public interest, why do you care that I'm blocking a fund that's dead?

35:09Michael Popok:That I don't understand. So here's what we're going to do. If it's really dead, we're a court of law. She said this. In the court of law, I need facts and evidence that are induced in my courtroom, like in front of me. Not a statement that's made somewhere in Congress by one of the parties, especially when the president has said he would be sorely disappointed if the fund were lost. And she said, when he says things like that, that usually leads to the Department of Justice doing something in response. So here's what we're going to do. I want an affidavit, sworn statement under oath from Todd Blanche on the DOJ side, Scott Bessent on the Treasury side, and Stan Woodward who participated from the Department of Justice in the signing.

35:57Michael Popok:If you give me those three things, I'm done. I will dismiss this case. You will never see me again is my paraphrase. Jurisdiction over case moot. If you don't do that, I'll see you next month with your response. The block stays on and we go from there. And so we waited patiently. You know, Scott McFarlane and Midas, I was doing a good foot tap in his social media post. Still no filing. Well, they finally filed a piece of paper, but it wasn't the one that Judge Brinkley wanted. It was one that we expected, which was Todd Blanche announcing to the world, I am not testifying under oath in any court.

36:34Michael Popok:I don't care if we lose. See, and Judge, you mentioned Kilmer Abrego Garcia. In the Kilmer case, The judge was on the precipice of dismissing prosecution against Kilmer for finding a vindictive prosecution and that the government didn't carry its burden to show they didn't vindictively prosecute. And he basically told the government, you need to get me testimony from Todd Blanche or you're going to lose this case. And they refused to give him testimony. They'd rather lose on vindictive prosecution than have Todd Blanche testify. Same thing when you and I turn to it in Chicago and we talk about what's going on in two courtrooms over the corrupted grand jury by the Department of Justice there and whether it goes back to Blanche and the White House.

37:18Michael Popok:He will never testify there. They'd rather dismiss indictments than to have Todd Blanche exposed to being sworn under oath in a court of law. So here with Judge Brinkham, we get a piece of paper filed late last night that says you don't have the power. It implicates separation of powers. Not one case law cited underneath that filing. We put the filing up on Legal AF Substack. And you cannot command three cabinet members to file anything. It should be good enough for you that he said it in Congress. Good day. I mean, that's my version. uh so i mean they came up with their own version of what they wanted to tell the judge to go pound sand uh and that he's never going to testify and now she's already in her order said what's going to happen you don't file those motion those affidavits i'm going to just see you in a month with your response now they don't like all of this i guess they could do what they've threatened to do which is take an appeal um i would normally segue over to williams what do you want to do ben Yeah, segue over to Williams.

38:22Ben Meiselas:But the point on the appeal that they're arguing is, I don't think it's going to fly if it goes to the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals, right? I mean, they are saying this case should be dismissed because it's moot, because we've, you heard Todd Blanche in Congress, he said, we are not going forward with it. And we have said in open court, we are not going forward with the fund. Noticeably, they also don't address Donald Trump's super pardon of himself of all tax liabilities, tax evasion, criminal investigations into his own potential tax fraud, all of the things that are included in that waiver of all the past civil and criminal claims against his tax fraud.

39:06Ben Meiselas:But they said, just trust me, bro. Just trust me. And the federal judge says, trust but verify. And you've lost your presumption of regularity. We don't trust you. Your statements in open court don't matter and don't have meaning anymore. Your words are meaningless, right? The same way Trump's words are meaningless to the world. They don't matter. I mean, it's all a bunch of just nonsense. So you can put it in writing. And if you put it in writing, then I will dismiss the case. I will have a written document where I'll be able to hold Todd. I may not be able to, you know, fortunately the Supreme court gave Trump absolute immunity, which is ridiculous, but I will be able to hold Todd Blanche accountable and you accountable as the lawyers.

39:51Ben Meiselas:And if, if you violate this, so there will be some level of accountability. Although So I think in perhaps a few years, and I won't belabor the point here, I've done other takes on it, the idea of absolute immunity for Trump as it relates to his filing of this case in his personal capacity versus as the president of the United States actually means that he probably doesn't have absolute immunity regarding his behavior here. But at least during this term itself, I don't think that – yeah.

40:22Michael Popok:Yeah, I was just going to say, because you and I are going to do a lot of this over the next year. When the Democrats take control, hopefully, of the House and the Senate and springboard to the presidency in 2028, do not be shocked by a future Department of Justice in the hands of adults who are ethical, challenging the absolute immunity ruling by the United States Supreme Court frequently, and maybe even about Trump taking cases up to purposely argue to find out the proper contours of this freewheeling decision that you and I have said is about as clear as mud when it came out three years ago.

40:59Michael Popok:So even though you and I sometimes and others will shorthand it by saying the absolute immunity decision, you know, it's not done. There's going to be challenges. I'm not sure what the Supreme Court does with them, but there are going to be a future Department of Justice and Solicitor General's arguments that things that Donald Trump has done fall outside even their version of immunity.

41:20Ben Meiselas:Let's talk about Judge Williams in Florida, and this will tie into our other view in segment three about special counsels that are going to be appointed by federal judges to investigate the DOJ's behavior, ultimately tying into what you just said, Popak, with Todd Blanche, who's really the architect gives him too much credit because the term architect makes it feel like there's architecture happening, really the destroyer than the architecture. But talk about what's going on in Florida.

41:52Michael Popok:Yeah, absolutely. I've been in front of Judge Williams. I have a pretty good handle on and talking to judges and lawyers, sorry, talking to lawyers who are handling the case, including Andres Rivero, the local counsel, and Judge Michael Ludic is one of the 35 judges who he actually is probably one of the leading forces there about their filing and what last night as well, big red letter day for Donald Trump. And in hers, this could be the silver bullet because if Judge Williams finds that she was used, that the federal court was defrauded and that there was the seat on the court by Donald Trump's lawyers and the Department of Justice and the Treasury Department to give a phony imprimatur of legitimacy over the quote-unquote settlement to allow for a settlement, to allow for a compromise of claims, to allow for the unlocking of the judgment fund by the Department of Justice.

42:49Michael Popok:If she finds all that phony, then the whole thing gets, she can, and the judges have reminded her late last night of their filing, she can rip up the settlement and declare it a product of fraud, almost like the fruit of the poisonous tree, and throw it, it's amended settlement agreement, giving that super pardon to the Trump family and everything else and toss it all into the trash can. And they're imploring her to do that. Now, in the middle, a couple of days ago, Trump lawyers, a half-hearted response would be a compliment. The thing that they filed basically told the judges to go pound sand, we're not responding to you.

43:29Michael Popok:You say fraud and deceit, but we don't see it, okay? The 35 federal judges, all 35 of them, are hacks, even though many of them were appointed by Republicans who are there, you know, partisan hacks, and you don't have jurisdiction. And, oh, by the way, we didn't commit fraud and deceit. Think about this, Ben. No sworn statement, no under-penalty perjury filing. If I'm on the receiving end as a member of the Florida Bar and a member of the Bar of the Southern District of Florida of a order by a judge, effectively in order to show cause, just to prove to her that I have not defrauded her and committed deceit on the court, I know what my response would look like.

44:10Michael Popok:First of all, it would lead with, in no way did we ever intend, nor was the court defrauded, nor deceived. And here's why. And then I'd have affidavits, including my own, because, you know, she wants to hear from me. So I got to testify. So it wouldn't be a naked submission. It would be a verified submission, a sworn submission. And then I'd go get the answers to the questions from the Department of Justice, Todd Blanche, Stan Woodward, and the head of the IRS. And I'd submit those as well to show her that this is not a fraud on the court, that this was all legitimate. He doesn't do any of that.

44:47Michael Popok:He sends in a naked submission with no support, effectively no case law, just ad hominem attacks on people, and says, are we good now? And the federal judges wrote late last night. I just did a hot take that's up on Legal AF YouTube about it and said, it's not good. First of all, you don't even have to worry about the 35 federal judges and whether we have standing or not under the federal rules of civil procedure, which we do. But the judge, you have inherent authority as a federal judge. I mean, you and I have been saying this since moment one. Judge, you have your own inherent authority. You don't have to wait for anybody to come along.

45:23Michael Popok:I didn't want her to dismiss the case in the first instance. Use your own authority. And it is broad. It is expansive, they reminded her, including, they didn't list appointing a special counsel, I'll hold that point for a minute, but tossing the settlement agreement. And that she needs to police the justice system, her own courtroom, and only she can do it. And it doesn't matter whether the case was mooted or not mooted. If the fraud on the court happened, which they say clear and convincing evidence establishes that it has, she must act. And they get the final word in that final brief. Now, in there, they also say in the last week or two, there's more evidence that supports our position that under the circumstance of a party controlling the Department of Justice, they can never unlock the judgment fund to pay out money, period.

46:23Michael Popok:That's effectively their argument. They said the new evidence is you wanted to know whether it was collusive or not. Todd Blanche is telling the world that he alone can unilaterally put an end to the contract, that he alone can unilaterally amend the contract. I mean, you and I have been practicing law for a long time collectively. I mean, I would love to wake up the next morning after a deal is signed and say, I think I'm going to give myself a raise. I think I'm going to, I don't like this term. I think I'm going to buy that house for a lot cheaper, like half. I'll just do it myself. That's not how it works.

46:56Michael Popok:But it is an indication that it actually supports the fraud and the requirement, the necessity that the court go forward with an investigation. And that's the final word of a mic drop by those 35 federal judges. Now, here's what I think she's going to do next. I don't think she's got a sufficient record yet to find contempt, to find a fraud on the court based on the filings. And since the government didn't supply any evidence, I think she's going to have to open up an evidentiary hearing, a trial, if you will, where she's going to pull the parties in. And now lawyers are going to have to look her in the eye and say, for the Department of Justice, we're never going to testify.

47:38Michael Popok:And it's going to be the exact same thing they argued in Brinkham, separation of powers, you can't make us. She's going to say, I don't need, I need the Department of Justice to find out whether I've been defrauded and you're going to testify. So they might have a fight that goes up to the 11th Circuit, but she's going to do that relatively soon. I'd be shocked if it doesn't happen in the next week or two after she now, the dust settles on this final filing. So I think in other words, to sum it up, The Department of Justice and Todd Blanch have bought themselves not only an evidentiary hearing, but possibly the appointment of an independent special counsel to advise the court because she still doesn't have adverse parties in front of her.

48:22Michael Popok:And unlike in other countries, you know, if you have civil code countries where the judge can also be sort of the investigator, we don't do that in the United States. The judge is the trier of fact if they're sitting on the bench and the parties are expected to fight it out in discovery and otherwise and get those facts adduced in front of the judge. So she's done it before. She's had three very established lawyers, one a former federal judge, one a former solicitor general, and another top lawyer give her advice about the case. I think she does something very similar, which bounces us out to Chicago, where I think special prosecutors are going to be appointed by one, if not two, federal judges against Todd Blanche in the Department of Justice.

49:10Ben Meiselas:Take a look at that powerful filing by those 35 retired federal judges escalating their challenge against Trump's$1.7 billion slush fund and IRS super pardon deal. That's the language that they use. plaintiff's filings only underscore the need to investigate whether the parties have perpetuated a fraud on this court and corrupted the integrity of the judicial process. There is reason to believes the parties use this suit and subsequent settlement to give cover for a giveaway to the lead plaintiff who also controls the defendants. The plaintiff now seeks to complete that deeply concerning process by insisting that the court can do nothing.

49:54Ben Meiselas:Remember during Donald Trump's first term, as bad as it was, how horrific as it ended when there were all of these warnings, he was so close to doing this and so close to doing that. And could you imagine how bad it would be? Remember all those scenarios of people saying that here's what the plans were? And then the Trump regime would say, we didn't do that. And when the Midas Touch Network would say, here's their plans, here's what they're going to do, we would always get those fact checks from like the Daniel Dales of the world and the Snoops of the world. Trump said they didn't do that. There's no evidence that I said, look at what they're actually doing behind the scenes.

50:31Ben Meiselas:Let's look at their actions and let's call it out. And now that they're doing it and it's actually happening and you have 35 retired federal judges from all different political backgrounds who are out there. You know, it's just fascinating to me that, you know, those types of people, you know, kind of are silent, you know, and they kind of just move to the side and they don't recognize what there's no accountability for what they were doing trying to shill for Trump. In any event, we're going to keep on building at the Midas Touch Network and we got to build new structures to fight back at this.

51:06Ben Meiselas:And that's what we're seeing federal judges do also, So building new structures, frankly, on a bipartisan basis. I mean, judges from all different political backgrounds saying, how do we now deal with a DOJ that basically is not prosecuting the criminals that are the criminals? How do we deal with a criminal enterprise showing up, calling itself the DOJ, but are the ones covering up the child sex trafficking? How do we deal with these people? Talk about that when we come back. A reminder, if you or someone you know has been injured in a car accident, a trucking accident, if you've been injured by the negligence of a company or a third party and you're looking for a lawyer, call 877-POPOC-AF or visit thepopocfirm.com.

51:53Ben Meiselas:Michael Popok has lawyers and people across the country who will take your call to see if you have a case. The consultation is free. Maybe you know somebody who may have a case who was injured in a really bad accident. Reach out to Popak. The worst they'll say is that you don't have a case. 877-POPAK-AF or visit thepopakfirm.com. And also make sure you subscribe to the Legal AF YouTube channel and the Legal AF Substack. Let's keep both the Legal AF YouTube channel and the Legal AF Substack on top of all of the respective charts. And then let's take our last quick break of the show. Let's talk about what judges are doing.

52:28Ben Meiselas:We'll talk about what Democrats are doing, calling out Donald Trump's cognitive and physical decline as well. Let's take our last quick break of the show.

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56:50Ben Meiselas:Popak, let's zoom in on what's happening in Illinois and specifically Chicago, where the Broadview 6 prosecution, malicious prosecution that resulted in the dismissal there of the peaceful protesters outside the Broadview facility, when they uncovered all of this grand jury misconduct that was taking place there where you had the most obvious form of prosecutorial misconduct and grand jury misconduct called vouching, where a prosecutor tells the grand jury, I'm vouching for this case. You got to just do it for me. I wouldn't bring you a bad case. Let's get you out of here early. I'm giving you the most exaggerated example of it possibly.

57:29Ben Meiselas:Usually it happens in more subtle ways that are still misconduct, but that's exactly what the Trump DOJ did in that case, the Broadview 6 case. They literally said, we wouldn't bring you this case if it was bad. We've got a lot more evidence that we're going to show in the future. So just let's get you out of here quickly. Sign your name to this document. It's an indictment. And then we'll get you out of here quickly. We got some other good cases we'll bring you as well. Just do your civic duty, sign it, and then we'll be done with it. It's obviously improper. It's unethical. It's criminal, perhaps, depending on how you do it.

58:05Ben Meiselas:And it's resulted in the dismissal of that case. But then lots of other criminal defendants in that courtroom said, whoa, whoa, whoa, we should find out if the prosecutor was doing that in our cases from this Trump regime. That just seems to be the modus operandi for these Trump regime prosecutors. And it's very hard to get your hands on grand jury material because it's usually viewed as grand jury secrecy. It's protected material. But because the presumption of regularity for the DOJ behaving ethically has been destroyed by Trump's DOJ and Blanche and Bondi, federal judges saying, OK, we'll give the criminal defense lawyer the transcripts.

58:45Ben Meiselas:And then sure enough, the transcript show, whoa, this is what the Trump DOJ is doing in every grand jury proceeding, it seems. So we got to look at this entire courthouse now, and we're seeing cases get dismissed for real serious charges of fraud and violent crimes, big million dollar fraud cases and other really serious cases where, yes, everybody's presumed innocent. the allegations against some of these other criminal defendants, not the Broadview Six ones, just some of the run-of-the-mill cases that federal prosecutors are supposed to bring, which are serious charges, trafficking cases, and all these cases.

59:26Ben Meiselas:We're like, whoa, the DOJ has now infected all of their cases with misconduct. And now all of these cases, thousands of cases, could potentially be getting dismissed right now. And so just one more point I'll bring in before throwing Popak in. For grand jury proceedings, just the way our system is, because we've never had literally a criminal enterprise as the DOJ, the system is the prosecutor is with the grand jury. The judge is not in the room. The lawyer representing the target that the DOJ is trying to get an indictment of is not in the room. The standard is a lower standard than beyond reasonable doubt.

1:00:05Ben Meiselas:It's a probable cause standard. And that's been our system. And we've trusted the DOJ to do that work ethically. But now that's out the window. So, Popak, we're seeing in Chicago, they're saying, we need special counsels to investigate what's going on here. The federal judges are. We've seen other cases now, serious criminal cases involving COVID, fraud of people creating fake medical companies or alleged fake medical companies during COVID get dismissed. We're seeing a lot of serious charges get dismissed on technical grounds because Trump prosecutors have engaged in rampant grand jury misconduct.

1:00:47Yeah.

1:00:48Michael Popok:Well, shout out to the Broadview Six defense lawyers because they are not taking fraud on the court for an answer. They are continuing to push, and I think push very willing judges, two in particular, Judge Perry and Judge Coleman, about the corruption that may reach the highest levels, including Todd Blanche and Donald Trump, and they want to find out about it. So Broadview Six case, Judge Perry, Loretto Hospital case, Judge Coleman, both occupy courtrooms inside the Chicago Federal Courthouse, Northern District of Illinois. The reason that they're joining together here is there's a common denominator, a grand jury that met every Thursday for the last 18 months that was run by the handpicked, eventually by the handpicked U.S.

1:01:45Michael Popok:attorney, Andrew Boutros, for the Department of Justice. and then from there, you know, they always say the organization rots from its head. And then from there, you had even 12-year line prosecutors, ones who had won awards from the Federal Bar Association, like Sherry Mecklenburg, doing things that were eye-popping is not the right term. I mean, my eyebrows like flew off my head when you and I both got copies of the transcript. More importantly, it flew off the judge's head. Judge Perry was like, it's the worst example of prosecutorial misconduct in a grand jury that I've ever seen. And the one that you keep referring to, when I reread it, I get it now.

1:02:24Michael Popok:She had been working with this grand jury for 18 months. Could you imagine being on a grand jury for 18 months? You get called in every Thursday. And she starts it off with her boss in the room, with Andrew Boutros in the room, obviously there as an emissary from the White House. And it's this well-worn path that we've now seen in a number of cases where Trump and the White House put pressure on Blanche and his right-hand person, Akash Singh, who's the number whatever, the deputy whatever in charge of all U.S. attorney's offices. He puts pressure on the local U.S. attorney in that office who puts pressure on the lower level prosecutors.

1:03:07Michael Popok:We saw the exact same blueprint, well-worn path in the Kilmer Abrego Garcia case. And so what is the U.S. attorney doing sitting in on Sherry Mecklenburg's presentation about the Broadview 6 to a grand jury in which he also apparently gave a speech to the grand jury when it looked like they weren't going to return the indictment? like a pep talk, made sure the pep talk wasn't on the record, which is already a violation of the grand jury processes and rules, because he knew what he was doing was wrong. He didn't want it reflected on a transcript. And Sherry Mecklenburg says to them, oh, I said to my, he sucks in the young prosecutor into her conspiracy.

1:03:50Michael Popok:I said to my buddy over here that I got to bring this to the Thursday grand jury. Let me bring this one to the Thursday grand jury about the Broadview six, the six peaceful protesters against ICE, trying to curry favor with them. We've been in this together. We've been together for a long, long time. You know me. You know me. I don't bring you back. Like you said, I don't bring you back cases, the evidence here. And then she tries, not once, not twice, but three times to get the indictment. The first time she brings it, they don't agree with her. They return a no true bill. She tries again. And this time she says, it's my fault.

1:04:33Michael Popok:It's my fault. Like she was breaking up with the grand jury. It's not you, it's me. I did something wrong. I didn't explain it right to you. Let me try it again with her boss hovering in the background. And then she tries again. And that's when one of the jurors famously said, is this the same crap you brought in here last time? Like she's been with this grand jury so long that like this, this is the dialogue that they're having back and forth with each other. And then she like tried to dismiss the grand jurors that were not buying what she was selling. And then commented that she had conversations with the grand jurors in the hallway.

1:05:08Michael Popok:Then had to come back and say, now I got to tell you about something I shouldn't have done, which she, cause she has to admit it. And the weirdest thing is she uses, there's, she has like a Freudian slip. she says vouch during her presentation to the grand jury. She said, my colleague here can vouch. I'm like, does she know she's vouching? And that's why that word just came out of her mouth, which is when a prosecutor says, forget the evidence. Trust me. This is good stuff. You should indict on it, which of course you're not allowed to do. So second transcript, no. oh, is this the crappy case you brought last time?

1:05:45Michael Popok:Third time, she finally gets an indictment. Now, when the defense lawyers get the transcript released because they make the argument there must have been abuse, they heard about all these things, the judge says, send me the transcript. And then they send her a heavily redacted transcript, like 217 lines in it. She eventually gets the regular transcript and she sees why. Because they had abused the process, such prosecutorial abuse that the judge found it like eye-popping. They then, the defense lawyers say, we want our attorney's fees under a very little used rule of criminal practice called the Hyde Amendment, where if you have a bad faith prosecution against you, you can get your attorney's fees back.

1:06:30Michael Popok:You almost never win on a Hyde Amendment motion. So they file theirs, and they say, we got to show his bad faith. We need all the emails. We need all the emails between Todd Blanche and Andrew Boutros and the regular prosecutor and maybe the White House. We need them all. And that's when the Department of Justice and Boutros said, no, no, we're going to agree to the attorney's fees. We're going to agree. We're going to dismiss the indictment with prejudice and we're going to give you your attorney's fees. And God loved those lawyers for the Broadview Six. They said, yeah, that only proves that we need the emails because this is an indicator, a badge of the fraud that you're so willing to agree.

1:07:12Michael Popok:And we should all want, they actually said this, we should all want on both sides, prosecutor and the defense side, we should want these emails to know what happened here, right? And then they hit the final nail in the coffin for Andrew Boutros and maybe for Todd Blanch, which they said, we need a special prosecutor. We need a special prosecutor appointed here, judge. You have the power to do it under Rule 42. You need to appoint a prosecutor. And you and I have seen this before, where a judge believes that the Department of Justice is not going to prosecute or investigate itself, and so has to appoint somebody to be an officer of the court, and that's what they're now demanding.

1:07:51Michael Popok:That is now sitting with Judge Perry to decide. The woman, the judge who said out loud, I believe this is the worst case of prosecutorial abuse ever, and she wants to do something about it. Then you've got Judge Coleman, who's got a case called the Loretto Hospital case, having to do with COVID testing, fraudulent COVID testing and reimbursement to the tune of billions of dollars. Things are so bad with the Department of Justice that they have dismissed that indictment with prejudice, not because the people aren't guilty, because of the prosecutorial misconduct in the grand jury. Those two people are like, wow, we just got, we don't even have to go to trial.

1:08:36Michael Popok:So now they're dismissing, you would think, indictments that they worked hard to get because of the prosecutorial misconduct. And they're trying to do it to get out from under Judge Coleman. And Judge Coleman has told them, similarly to Judge Perry, you opened Pandora's box. She literally said that. And if you think dismissing the indictment is going to get you out from under this and the examination by this court as to whether there is fraud and the lawyers are involved, too, you've got another thing coming. And she was also pissed off that Andrew Boutros didn't show up in her courtroom to dismiss the indictment and sent some more respected prosecutor in the office hoping that that would do the trick.

1:09:14Michael Popok:It's not. I think we're going to see a special counsel or prosecutor appoint, more likely than not, appointed by Judge Perry, appointed by Judge Coleman, and maybe to round out what we did earlier in front of Judge Williams in Miami. This will be extraordinary. But this is the natural, inexorable next chapter when you have a corrupted and captive and captured Department of Justice led by now first Bondi, now Blanche, and really by Donald Trump. This is the natural extension of that in year two of that, as finally, finally, fed up federal judges, former and current, have figured out the tools in their tool bag and what they're going to do about it to protect justice.

1:10:01Michael Popok:The days of shock and awe, and I can't believe they just did that. And are they not going to abide by my orders? It's over. It is over in federal courtrooms. and then of course it'll go up to the appellate court and we'll see what the United States Supreme Court has to say about all this and how much they're gonna bend themselves into a pretzel. I'm talking about the MAGA six on the court to benefit their patron again, Donald Trump.

1:10:28Ben Meiselas:You know, I think about everything that's going on right now in this country. I think about the symbolism of Donald Trump telling everybody that the reflecting pool is crystal clear while it is more infested than algae than ever before. as Donald Trump promised that this was going to be his main cause, the reflecting pool, which is the oddest thing in and of itself. I think about that. I think about on Friday, Donald Trump doing a press conference in front of a Qatari jet that Trump turned into a Qatari Air Force One for the United States, which he's going to steal and make his own in the next 18 months that MAGA Republicans just let him take a jet.

1:11:11Ben Meiselas:We, the taxpayers, are paying hundreds of millions of dollars in renovations for a Qatari jet so that Donald Trump could own a billion-dollar plane. I think about Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan's books, Regime Change, where they talk about Melania not allowing Donald Trump to sleep in the master bedroom, even though Melania doesn't show up at the White House really on any meaningful period of time. But then Donald Trump sleeps in the second floor living room area. But then he, anything that is decorated in the White House that looks gold, Trump hoards and keeps in his second floor living room area.

1:11:52Ben Meiselas:And apparently, according to all the reporting, he sleeps in filth, wrappers, garbage all over him. Um, he insists that there be rugs and carpets, uh, in the bathroom, which have mold on them and are all wet and like disgusting. Um, and I think about what I observed at the G seven, um, his behavior, his physical and cognitive issues, which I don't want to let him off the hook for his, uh, vile, evil, malicious behavior. Um, but you know, one day that's where he's going to go. I mean, you know, and to, you know, it's fairly easy to predict where this is going. When accountability strikes, he's going to say that he was incapacitated.

1:12:42Ben Meiselas:And this was, I'm giving you my opinion now under the first amendment, I'm giving you my opinion. I think he and others, ah, it was dementia. It was Alzheimer's. It was this or that it was what Fred had and dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. You know, and all these stories are going to come out and, you know, and we're going to be like, yeah, we knew that. Like, it's obvious we're watching him. It's a combination of all of it. He was an evil, horrible human being. You compound that, the malignant narcissism, you compound that with the mental and physical decline right now. And you have the recipe, you know, for just kind of sheer and absolute and total disaster that we are, you know, that we're seeing right now.

1:13:21Ben Meiselas:And so, you know, we need the levers of government to work. We need a function in Congress. We need a function in Congress that does real oversight. I've set aside this political part. It needs to do real oversight. The most egregious violations are taking place before our eyes that were frankly unfathomable before. We need a re-understanding and a re-imagination of the Constitution because the Constitution has in it good faith and fair dealing through the take care clause of Article 2, and Donald Trump does not take care that laws are faithfully executed. He views laws as something to be broken, to put your middle finger at.

1:14:01Ben Meiselas:And he's involved in the most disastrous foreign policy, fathomable and imaginable. And with all of these things happening, it is impacting the American people's lives. And all of our reporting shouldn't get lost in all of the Trump weapons of mass distraction. We need to reflect on them, of course, and hold them accountable. But we should ultimately remember that the victims in all of this are the American people and people throughout the world, not just myopically talking about Americans as a result of this regime, as a role of the Trump regime. But the American people, as we record this live June 20th, are suffering.

1:14:37Ben Meiselas:They're the victims right now of this Trump regime. People are psychologically tortured as a result of what Donald Trump does. People don't know, am I going to be able to afford gas today? Probably not. When I go to the supermarket, am I going to be able to afford these meals? Probably not. Probably not. I mean, I'm sure you all experienced this too, where you go there and they start ringing up the items and you go, ah, you know what? Just take that back. Take that back. I'll just take, I'll just take these right now. Wow. I didn't realize it was that expensive. It is. And we, you know, people struggling to pay rent, people struggling with basic day-to-day stuff right now.

1:15:13Ben Meiselas:And Trump's out there bragging about luxurious Qatari jets and telling us the reflecting pool is blue and we know it's algae green and worse than ever and giving no bid contracts to people of friends of his who have donated to the campaign and all of this stuff. And it's, it's, it is there, there's a lot of concern and doom and dread, but I'll leave it on a positive note, which is we're here. June 20th, 2026, we're here. We're standing. We haven't fallen. This Trumpian nightmare, it still exists, but I think people are wise to it right now. And my only hope, my project is less a political project of this party, that party, this person, or that party.

1:16:00Ben Meiselas:It's a generational project of we need real law and order because our systems weren't capable of addressing a Trump, an authoritarian like this, as someone who fashions himself as a Nero version of the Caesars. We weren't equipped to deal with it. Project 2025, all of the Federalist Society destructions of our legal system was to hoist up a Caesar. They got right to Nero pretty freaking quickly, who as Rome burns, he's talking about Qatari jets. That's what's going on here. And we need to rethink the way we structure laws. We need to rethink the composition of the Supreme Court and term limits.

1:16:40Ben Meiselas:We need to really reimagine at a generational level what makes us Americans and why are we in this together? What are we trying to accomplish here? And that's, to me, what Midas Touch is all about, what Legal AF is all about, what shows like this are all about. So I'll stop preaching right there. Popak, anything you want to say before we sign off?

1:17:00Michael Popok:No, I think you've got, I just want people to understand that the reason that we focus on the mental decline of Trump is not as a counterbalance to his attacks on Joe Biden and Joe Biden's legacy. I mean, you know, going after the recordings that Joe Biden did with his biographer or his author, which has now been blocked by a federal judge subject to appeal. It's not that. It's not because we're trying to come up with another counterpoint to President Autopenn and all of that. We're talking about serious matters that people, somebody with his finger on the nuclear button is acting out in public, in public, in ways that are alarming and concerning.

1:17:47Michael Popok:and would indicate that somebody is in the throes of dementia, a lot of the acting out, the cursing, the weirdness, the lack of continuity of thought, the physical frailty. And for a person that says, you know, tries to act with gestures of transparency, like it's the most transparent presidency of all time. Of course, we know that's not true with the Epstein files, the Situation Room reporting that's now been done, but his medical condition, it's not normal to have 22 specialists crawl all over another human being. It's not normal to have four dementia tests over a period of 18 months. It's not normal to disappear for eight days after that visit.

1:18:36Michael Popok:And then when you do reappear and you take a relatively simple flight to Europe, you know, with all the luxury of Air Force One, that you showed up like something that the cat just dragged in, who can't put a sentence together, and seems beyond gassed during the G7, where he effectively, without recognizing the historical the historical parody of it. He at Versailles, you know, in France, he capitulated to Iran. I mean, you know, these kinds of things are important. So I think Democrats are doing their job just as the Republicans went after Biden and everything about his mental state. It's the same thing here.

1:19:23It matters who's running that government, you know,

1:19:27Michael Popok:and if it's not him, God help us. if it's who we think it is, which is the combination of Stephen Miller and J.D. Vance and Susie Wiles and other people in the inner circle or inner sanctum. So I'm glad that we're here together doing this. And to answer the question, there's two major questions that I get asked time and time again on this network and on Legal AF. Is my vote secure? And the answer to that is I feel relatively confident in the abilities of the attorneys general, the public interest groups to do their job inside of courtrooms and federal judges to do their job to protect the vote in real time, starting now all the way into the day of elections.

1:20:11Michael Popok:And the second thing people are very, very concerned about is will what we're watching, will the people who are responsible for the Trump administration, the enablers, the sycophants, the bootlickers who are abusing our constitution, our rule of law, will they be brought to justice one day? And I say, yeah, it's a combination of impeachment proceedings for those in the government, for obstruction of justice and other things, and then prosecutions when the Department of Justice is in the hands of the Democrats, because many of the things we're watching now will be within the statute of limitations to allow for prosecutions.

1:20:49Michael Popok:So the justice is coming, you know, like they used to say on Game of Thrones, winter is coming. Justice is coming for these people. The good news for America is that the other party can walk and chew gum at the same time. They're not going to be consumed by just doing investigation, investigation, investigation, the way this do nothing Congress has done. They're going to be able to do both, pass laws to help the American people around the kitchen table in the most intimate decisions of their life, yes, they can do all of that. And at the same time, root out corruption, reverse all of those executive orders, most of them, restore our position in the world and help the American people.

1:21:31Michael Popok:We can do both and do impeachment and criminal prosecution. So that's the, you know, we always like to leave this on a, not artificial, but a high note and a call to action for audience. So I'm glad that you kicked that off.

1:21:47Ben Meiselas:Everybody, make sure you subscribe to our YouTube channel here, but more importantly, subscribe to the Legal AF YouTube channel wherever you also listen to audio podcasts. Why don't you give Legal AF Audio a try? Subscribe to Legal AF Substack, not just their YouTube channel. Let's keep both the sub stack and the YouTube charts. Keep Legal AF on top of both. Also, if you or someone you know has been injured in a car accident, auto accident, trucking accident, if you've been injured by the negligence of a third party involved in a catastrophic injury, know somebody who has, have them or you, give a call 877-POPOC-AF or visit the POPOC-FIRM.

1:22:22Ben Meiselas:Call or text 877-POPOC-AF or visit the POPOC-FIRM.com. and tell Popak, see if you have a case. And if worst case scenario, you don't have a case. But Popak created this firm to help and he represents a lot of people who listen and watch this show. And the consultation's free, as I mentioned before. All right, everybody, we appreciate you. Thank you for watching this weekend's Legal AF or whenever you're listening or watching this. We appreciate you for hanging out with us and learning about all of the stuff. We love spending time with you and we'll see you next time on Legal AF. Shout out Midas Mike.