Legal AF 9/17/2026

25:48Popok:And she said, yeah, I'm going to file the lawsuit. And so she filed the lawsuit. And it's been an uninterrupted string of victories, including today, more than once in front of Judge Sullivan. Why don't you give your overview of what happened today and what has been ordered? And I'll kind of do some color kibitzing behind the scenes. Well, right now, Judge Sullivan has rejected the Trump DOJ's claims that they shouldn't be forced to hand over the FBI interviews, the FBI interviews, of course, of the woman who was then a teenager accusing Trump of sexual assault. Judge Sullivan will inspect those FBI interviews known as 302s privately after rejecting the Trump DOJ's claims that they couldn't share them because they were, quote, duplicative.

26:44He said there was no reason at all. I'm going to read from the ruling right now. The court rejects defendant's assertion that the underlying handwritten FBI notes that form the basis for certain FD 302 reports were properly withheld because they are substantially similar to and therefore duplicative of typewritten reports. The review protocol contains no directive requiring the withholding of substantially similar and duplicative documents. And he went on later to say these aren't duplicative. There's evidence that shows that they have identified nearly 100 additional examples of handwritten interview notes produced by defendant.

27:29Also, there's the judge ordered the disclosure of foreign language documents. And who knows how large a tranche that is. Remember, this was a global sex trafficking ring. It operated in France. It operated in Eastern Europe. And one of the and there was a very stinging rebuke of the rationale to withhold those documents that Judge Sullivan said that it was without merit. They cited no authority for administrative inconvenience. Basically, the Trump DOJ was saying we don't have the manpower to translate these documents. And therefore, there's, you know, the risk that victims identities can be exposed.

28:16They said administrative inconvenience is no excuse. And Judge Sullivan ordered the release of those. He's ordered a list of the administrative record. I mean, it's a sweeping win, Popak. And as you said, this litigation has been an uninterrupted string of victories from Katie Fang. And I think that most of the folks thought the key hurdle to this lawsuit was one that she vaulted months ago. It was standing. And as soon as Judge Sullivan accepted that a reporter suffers informational injury when the government doesn't release documents that were mandated released by Congress, that was when she won.

29:03And ever since that moment, I mean, the law was clear. All of these excuses, we can't hand over these Trump-related interview notes because they're duplicates of the typewritten reports. That was easily rejected and was rejected by Judge Sullivan today. And the last time I remember us speaking about this case, you know, it seems like a couple of months ago when Judge Sullivan read the Riot Act to the Trump Justice Department where he's going that reminding them that he's the only federal judge in that circuit that has found the government in civil contempt. So, you know, this is her latest victory, but I don't think it's going to be her last one.

29:50No.

29:51Popok:First of all, as you said, on September 24th, the judge is going to get in his private review the dozens and dozens of pages of handwritten notes of the victim who says she was sexually abused at 13 by Donald Trump. Handwritten notes. Judges already said these are not duplicates. These are separate documents. And I want to review them. Review them on the way to producing them. He's going to release them eventually. We're doctored to protect the dignity and the privacy of the victim to the public as well and to Katie Fang. That's happening. And so, you know, that if you're, you know, having been a lawyer, having to report occasional bad news to a client, the phone call from Todd Blanche to Donald Trump was, boss, you know, those 30 or 40 handwritten pages of interview notes with a woman who said you sexually abused her at 13?

30:44Popok:Yeah, they're going to the judge and they're going to be produced to the public eventually. What? So that was not a good phone call from Blanche in. I also like the fact that on the administrative record, the reason that is important is because the secret sauce for Katie was not only proving informational standing, but also that this was an Administrative Procedures Act case. that they had made, that the agency was the Department of Justice, that they had made a final agency action by announcing in two pages that now infamous two-page memo, unsigned, undated. Nothing says transparency like nobody wants to put their name on it.

31:27Popok:That came out and said, we're FBI DOJ. We're done. The investigation is over. There is no list. We're not prosecuting anybody. And, oh, by the way, Jeffrey Epstein committed suicide. We're done here. That was final agency action for an agency called the Department of Justice and the FBI. Therefore, they are also entitled to the administrative record about that decision making and about the decision making about we're done producing. Once they announce we're done producing documents, we're done. Three million, that's it. That was final agency action. So they're going to get now the administrative record about the decision making, about that decision, what went into the box, what didn't go into the box, how it was filtered, how it was redacted.

32:12Popok:That should all be there. And you know it's not going to be. So there's going to be a fight over the administrative record that the judges now ordered. You know what? In October, I want to see the list of the documents. And in the middle of October, I want to see the actual documents for the administrative record. This is not, this is the tip of the iceberg, literally. The preliminary injunction that Katie brought with her lawyers, Brendan Ballew, of Public Integrity, is just about five subcategories of documents. The underlying case is about all of the production, the missing millions of pages, and whether a federal monitor should be put in place like a former federal judge to both look back and look forward, look back at what they did and look at what they didn't do, and make recommendations and make a report to the judge.

33:01Popok:That's what the underlying case is all about. This is all a fight mostly about the five categories subject to the preliminary injunction. So we got FBI and we've got you. You got to start with the foreign language documents and you got to do review and produce them. You don't have to translate them, but inevitably they have to translate them because you can't produce things. You don't know what they say because you might get in trouble that way. So he's got that up and running. And then I love the point, Adam, when the judge said, since he did the reporting and I did the reporting about in the courtroom, when they said, when Andrew Blocks for the Department of Justice said, well, if you could just issue an order, he says, you mean another order, an order that says I mean it this time?

33:46Popok:So now he said, if you think what I've just written is not clear and unambiguous, let me know that by the 21st of September and I will clear it up for you. Because they don't want any more. This is the trap being laid, right? They don't want any more. Well, we couldn't really figure it out in our good faith interpretation. No, F that. Tell me if you can't figure it out. I'll set you straight right now. And then on the answer side, he also found waiver. He said, you're going to have to answer the suit now. You have to file an answer. Join the case so they can move for summary judgment. And no, you don't get to have another motion practice.

34:25Popok:You don't get to move to dismiss or complain again because you missed all the deadlines. And so, no, you know, talk about being at wit's end. You can see he's at his last raw nerve with the Department of Justice, and he's giving them these tripwires of September 24th and October. And then I think it's just a major explosion in his courtroom where he lowers boom and he lowers the boom. What do you think? Right. Right. No, I think that's exactly right. And if listeners are thinking that, you know, if they find it frustrating by all of this process and all of these dates and all of the, you know, putting the ducks in a row, just remember what we've seen throughout Trump's second term.

35:07We were talking about the Kennedy Center earlier during the last order blocking Trump's name on the building again. Judge Cooper made a point about the Trump DOJ's verbal. I think it was linguistic gymnastics. And that's what they do. They try to find an escape clause. And that's what happened in the fight over the turning away of the planes from El Salvador and the defiance of the judges' orders to bring the planes back. The government tried to come up with some sort of excuse of, oh, that was your verbal order in the court, but you issued a written order later. And two judges on the D.C. Circuit accepted it.

35:52So I think that all of the judges, and certainly Judge Sullivan here in the Epstein case, are wise to the Trump Justice Department's game. They are preemptively taking away any excuse that can lead to even more of a logjam on appeal. before lowering the boom. And, you know, we talked earlier about the kind of slow, deliberate method that Judge Cooper was setting up. I think it's double as much for Judge Sullivan because with Judge Sullivan, he's already tipped his hand that contempt is in the picture here. He's warned them, I've done it before. I'm the only one in this circuit who's done it before.

36:38so don't test me and that's why i definitely agree with you michael he means business yeah

36:44Popok:and um you know this is the you know i think this is a um a lesson or has set a blueprint so proud of what katie fang has done and i think she won't be the last this won't be the last we've heard of katie fang suing it won't be the last katie fang lawsuit and hopefully other independent media also says, you know what? We have standing, we have informational standing under the FANG doctrine, which I think will be taught in law school now. There wasn't many cases that were cited to support that. That was a new finding by a judge about the analysis of informational injury. And I think it should open the door to other cases.

37:30Popok:I mean, listen, frankly, we've thought about it. I've thought about it. You know, we've, we've, well, maybe we should bring that case, you know, maybe we should bring the FOIA, the Freedom of Information Act thing, or maybe we should do it. And, uh, you know, for me, it's always been, I sort of want to be on this side of the glass, but, but when you sit around long enough and justice isn't being done and mainstream media is reticent and won't do it and others won't step forward, like the survivors weren't going to do it. Why put them, why is it required that they have to sue to get justice in that way?

38:07Popok:You know, it was a perfect opening for somebody like Katie to step forward. So I'm so proud of what she's done. And imagine the kind of alternate reality where it was the survivors that brought this case. The entire Trump DOJ defense has been, they've been claiming to withhold all these documents for the survivors and kind of set it aside for a moment. the fact that they released private information of these survivors and had to be, you know, who had to go and take these files off the internet. Some of them photographs, I mean, horrible stuff. Imagine if the survivors actually brought this lawsuit and they were saying, we can't release these documents for the plaintiff who is seeking this.

38:56But, you know, Katie Fang was the one who did it. Katie Fang is the one who established this precedent. This is something that, you know, this is happening in the District of D.C. And so it's a new host of documents that every D.C. reporter can access. It'll probably be used as, you know, it'll be cited in other courts around the country, maybe not binding there. But D.C. is big. D.C. is a news center of the United States. It's a significant win, not only for the release of the Epstein files, but also for freedom of information more broadly. You don't need to resort only to FOIA. If the government has a legal duty to release documents and they're not doing it, then you are injured as a journalist and you can sue.

39:52Popok:Yeah, absolutely. And a good week for Epstein survivors overall. You've got Leon Black, financier, friend of Jeffrey Epstein, took dating advice, got fixed up with women apparently through him. also funded Jeffrey Epstein's empire, you know, a billion dollars given to Jeffrey Epstein at a time when he was, you know, spending money on thousands and thousands of flights to fly, you know, on Air Epstein, all sorts of a shady network to bring women from dozens of countries to meet with powerful men and himself to be preyed upon. And so he didn't want to answer questions that were proposed to him by the bipartisan House Oversight Committee led by MAGA, led by Chairman Comer.

40:39Popok:And now he's got a finding of contempt against him. And now a referral over to the Department of Justice. You know, when Steve Bannon and Peter Navarro didn't want to respond to the Jan 6th Committee, there was a referral of contempt to the Department of Justice, and they were prosecuted and put in jail. But what is this Department of Justice going to do next? What do you think is going to happen? You know, we will see. We know that the operation and the order of the day for the Trump Department of Justice is reward friends or protect friends and clobber enemies. And so I do not think that a referral from Congress means much unless it's the administration really wants to do it.

41:25About Leon Black, he was also the subject of a probe by Senator Ron Wyden, who's the top Democrat on the Finance Committee, and of the kind of follow the money investigation. And you had mentioned that this was an overwhelming bipartisan vote for the referral for Leon Black. But Senator Wyden, when pulling the money trail and writing the report, you know, I mean, Leon Black was a main character of it. And he had no help from Republicans there. They wouldn't join him and give him subpoena power to look under the hood there. So with the I want to make that point because with the upcoming elections, so the midterms coming up, Senator Wyden can have subpoena power.

42:12Leon Black, as Senator Wyden's report found, was Epstein's single largest funder for a certain period of his life. That money that was paid to Epstein purportedly for tax and estate services, which the senator is very skeptical of, was used in furtherance of Epstein's sex trafficking scheme, according to this report. And that's how Epstein used the money that he got this way. So it really shows the stakes of the election coming up that if there, you know, I doubt that if Senator Wyden has subpoena power that he's going to let this go just because the final report is out. And sometimes, you know, it's great when there's bipartisan cooperation, as there was in the House Oversight Committee, but there isn't that in the Senate right now.

43:15Yeah.

43:15Popok:And then finally, absolutely. You got Kash Patel. You know, while Todd Blanche was busy, this is this is like this is not getting enough press. Todd Blanche thought it was appropriate to fill in as the press secretary for a day. I mean, to be the political propagandist for the administration while he's the head of the Department of Justice, and he thought nothing of it. Like this is some sort of talk show where they had a rotating guest host to try to pick the winner. You know, taking questions both as the Department of Justice head and as the mouthpiece and spokesperson for the Department of Justice.

43:53Popok:I mean, it is the levels of immorality and lack of ethics of this, of Todd Blanchett, the Department of Justice, just boundless, just absolutely boundless. And while that was going on, that shit show circus was going on. You got Kash Patel and that circuit, that dumpster clown fire, whatever that's supposed to be, in front of the Senate Judiciary Committee. And he was asked dozens and dozens of questions about what he was doing about the Epstein files. How did you read his performance? And then we'll tie it to the Epstein scandal. Well, the FBI 302s we were talking about earlier in connection with Katie Fang's litigation, he claimed not to know about them.

44:40And that just doesn't pass a laugh test. I mean, this has been a topic of national conversation. They were withheld. You know, there's a reason they are being withheld. And he just claimed entirely not to know about them. We had this kind of ongoing pattern where he insults the people who, the senators, who question him vigorously. And he suddenly, you know, you had mentioned that bestiality sidebar earlier. And, you know, it's interesting that anyone thought he did so well with his performance when those are the headlines. That's the headline. How many headlines ran that day about Kash Patel defending, lowering the standards to allow applicants who have engaged in bestiality?

45:34And that was the question that had caused Senator Kennedy of Louisiana to, you know, be aghast. And, you know, even he was giving tough questions to Kash Patel at one point about that. But that was what jumped out at me, his denial of any knowledge of these 302s in response to questions by Senator Whitehouse. I spoke to Senator Whitehouse recently on Legal AF and All Rise News on this subject about his attempt to get the information through Congress. It's not only going through the courts, it's the courts and Congress searching for information about these FBI interviews. So that was the biggest moment for me.

46:21What was it for you when in terms of Kash Patel's performance talking about the Epstein files?

46:29Popok:Yeah, for me, it was just this this complete inability to answer straight questions with the truth posed to him by people like Senator Whitehouse. He said, there's no open files. They're not going after any predators. There's nothing to see here. It's all a lie. When you talk to survivors, as you and I have, like Danny Bensky, she said point blank that none of the survivors that she knows of have been interviewed or even been tapped on the shoulder by the FBI. They're actually unwilling to go and pick up the phone call themselves because they don't think there's a receptive audience in the FBI to do it.

47:03Popok:they'd rather cooperate with state authorities like New Mexico and maybe New York, get out from under the federal prosecutors who they don't believe have any incentive or any interest in good faith to pursue their leads. Danny Benski knows of at least five predators that have not been brought to justice. And you can multiply that by the other members of the survivor community that have come forward. And yet he sits there with his shit-eaten grin, making it all about him. Oh, you're attacking my girlfriend, my loved one, my how dare you. It's like, you know what? That got old really quick, Cash.

47:40Popok:And your burned book going after, you know, what do I say against Dick Durbin? You know, this Pam Bondi school of, you know, trying to run out the clock and make it all about you. It's not all about you. It's about our national security. It's about if we're ready for the next 9-11. It's if and how to prevent it. It's are we ready to track down the next serial killer or political assassin? And does anybody out there have confidence when they go to bed at night that we are a safer nation because Kash Patel and his girlfriend are on the job? I don't think so. And I think they have underestimated, talk about the political side of law and politics.

48:32Popok:I think the Trump administration has underestimated the public disgust and ire with how they have mistreated the Epstein survivors and how they have allowed clownish figures like Kash Patel to have his hands on the levers of power when it comes to our national security. I think people have had it. I think it's not just the people, the tens of millions of people have taken to the streets. I think there's a pent up demand to vote and to take them out. And I think they have underestimated it, hoping that the news story will somehow shift and the winds of fortune will shift in the next 48 days in their favor.

49:13Popok:and from what I'm seeing, what I'm hearing, and the polling that I'm reviewing, this is going to be a bloodbath, rightly so, for the Republican Party. Right. I mean, because Republicans themselves, and in particular, the MAGA coalition, do not like what the Trump administration is doing with the Epstein files and the Iran war. Those are two of the most unpopular actions of the many unpopular actions of this administration. You had mentioned public safety, national security, where that actually kind of collides with the Epstein story is a story that I talked very recently with Senator Whitehouse about.

49:56There was a Washington Post investigation that the Trump Department of Justice isn't cooperating with international probes on this. So this has to do with, one, our mutual legal assistance treaties with other countries. The government of Poland wants to look into Epstein's possible ties to the Russian government. Why are we stonewalling that investigation? Right.

50:21Popok:It'd be one thing if we don't want to do it, but right. Why are we blocking? Well, why are we blocked? Why were we blocking for years the investigation of the Tate brothers? Why was the Trump administration and those around him interfering with the Romanian investigation of the Tate brothers. Another, how many international child sex trafficking rings and one president do I have to talk about or you and I have to do commentary on? I mean, one is too many. Two is obscene. Absolutely, absolutely. And, you know, now the Tate brothers, their arguments failed in court. They're going to have to stay in jail en route to their prosecution if they are extradited.

51:04But they didn't get to get bailed out by saying we were lying about our ostentatious wealth. The court didn't buy it. But you're right. Once too many, two is obscene.

51:16Popok:Absolutely. As you and I have said, and I do believe this in my heart of hearts, if the Epstein scandal wasn't on the radar and the stench of it all over Donald Trump, I am quite confident that if it was just the Tate brothers, that Donald Trump would have been intervening a lot on their behalf. You know, Barron Trump's buddies, he would have intervened on their behalf, but he couldn't do it politically. Even Donald Trump couldn't do it politically, given the ire over and the public outrage over how he's mishandled and insulted the Epstein survivors. Right, right. And about that Epstein Poland investigation, I just want to put a fine point on it.

52:01We're talking about this during a week when we find out Don Jr. had a Russian oligarch bankroll his wedding festivities. And why are we stonewalling the Polish government's quest to get information about what possible ties to the Russian government Jeffrey Epstein had? That's what we're dealing with.

52:28Popok:How about the standard, the new standard that Todd Blanche came up with when he was questioned about, are you going to investigate Umar Kremlev and the Putin, obviously the Putin connected money, money laundered through the International Boxing Commission through Dubai into Don Jr. and Bettina's wedding account. Are you going to investigate that? Here's the new standard. I don't know if you caught it, Adam. The Department of Justice won't investigate if Todd Blanche has never heard of the person. Right. Or or or if he's heard that he's a good friend of somebody. He actually said in response, I don't know.

53:06Popok:The president doesn't know who it is. I don't really know who it is. It's the Don. The president's son has said he's a friend of his. So what would I be investigating? I don't know. Why don't you investigate and find out who he is? How this is easy, Todd. Umar Kremlev doesn't spend a dime of IBC money without Putin's approval. That money didn't come as a wedding gift, you know, with a check or a savings bond from Umar Kremlev to the happy bride and groom. It came through a series of accounts. We call that, what's the word for it again? Money laundering into, and no, it's not a defense. Here's the other thing.

53:52Popok:I don't know if you've heard of Adam, and I definitely fell asleep during law school during this. If you are the recipient of money laundered funds, but you put in all caps in your social media that there's no conspiracy, that is an automatic defense to a criminal case. Did you ever hear that? Also, if you call it a hoax all the time, and if you repeat the name of the country with which you have a troubling relationship, say three times, that is also ironclad. Or we're not being fair, you and I as independent commentators, because Umar Kremlev and Putin didn't pay for the way he paid for the after party.

54:35Popok:See, it's the after party defense. Right, right. Well, you know, just a couple of days of festivities on a private Bahamanian island. What's that between friends, especially when the benefactor was involved in an organization that is sanctioned by the Ukrainian government for abducting kids? I absolutely I had to rub my eyes when I saw the name I was like is this a long lost episode of Rocky and Bullwinkle is this Boris and Natasha the guy's name is Umar Kremlev is that is that I mean seriously is he having like a black hat and a black trench coat basically see the photos basically so so when we when we come back we go into the home stretch of legal AF at the midweek.

55:23Popok:I'm here with our good friend Adam Klassfeld of All Rise News. We're going to talk about the grand conspiracy. Did it collapse? Did it not collapse? What started as a silent resignation became a noisy resignation for the head conspiracy theorist in the Trump administration, a top prosecutor named Joe DiGenova. But there's more in that story, and I want to break it down with you with Adam. And then why do I have to talk about Lindsay Halligan again? And why are they fighting to bring her back? She should be happy that she got fired from the job she was incompetent to perform when she went after James Comey and Letitia James and others as an insta prosecutor.

56:05Popok:And now, no, they're fighting to bring her back, fighting for the president to be able to appoint anybody with any title and make them into the U.S. attorney at will. No, there's a thing called the appointments clause. And you and I will cover all that when we come back. Legal AF, the YouTube channel, which is, you know, the, we stand on the shoulders of the podcast, but the YouTube channel, we are two years old tomorrow. Cue the balloons, cue the confetti cannon. Do we have that? On constitution, constitution day, two years ago, there they are. Wouldn't it be memorable for all of us if you became a subscriber on Legal AF YouTube channel, 2.24 million subscribers strong, over 815 million views, all because of you.

56:50Popok:Do us a favor, do me a favor, become a subscriber. It supports independent commentary and journalism like ours and like Adam Klasfeld, who does his YouTube work with us over on Legal AF YouTube channel. Legal AF Substack, it's a whole nother world parallel to the Legal AF community, but But we do live reporting there, commentary and writing and videos, new content and filings and orders of judges all on Substack. Become a member there as well. Keep us in the top 20 of all U.S. news Substacks. Download the audio. There's a help out the show button right above Adam's head. There it is. And that helps.

57:30Popok:I know it sounds old-fashioned. Like, Polpok, we're in the world of AI about to link up with Skynet and kill us all. What do you mean we have to download the audio? Yeah, it's still a thing. I know it sounds analog, but we still got to download the audio, especially if you're YouTube people. Hit that button, download it. We made it easy on you. And then we've got these specially curated sponsors, and we're going to take a quick break for them when we come back. Grand Conspiracy, you're going to want to get updated on that. And what's going on with all these U.S. attorneys who got fired? And why is Donald Trump trying to revive them?

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1:00:10Popok:That's smartcredit.com slash legal AF. Results vary. Cancel anytime. Welcome back to the homestretch of legal AF. the podcast at the midweek with Michael Popok and our honored, well, we're honored to have him as our guest host in Adam Glasfeld, All Rise News sitting in for Karen Freeman Ignifilo. Adam, why don't you take the lead on the grand conspiracy and Joe DiGenova and what we've learned directly from lawyers for like John O 'Brennan, the former CIA director, who's fighting it out in Judge Gia Cobb's courtroom, even before he's indicted. He actually rushed into court, filed his own motions, setting up his future motion for a vindictive prosecution dismissal.

1:00:58Popok:Why don't you catch us all up on the, what's going on with that grand conspiracy in front of, speaking of grand conspiracy, in front of Judge Aileen Cannon up in Florida. Well, take it from there. Sure. Thanks, Popak. You know, one thing I'll just say off the bat, I was not expecting Joe DiGenova, of all people, to make a noisy exit because Joe DiGenova, after having been a Reagan-era prosecutor, became a reliable MAGA stalwart and the type of person who showed up on cable for nearly the better part of a decade saying that Brennan is a traitor and arguing about the deep state. And he's the one, one might say, as a result, who was picked, handpicked to lead the grand conspiracy investigation.

1:01:47And now he's out. John Brennan, one of his main arguments in filing this lawsuit to just make the government preserve its evidence so that he could fight it with vindictive prosecution motions and things of that nature. one of the things that he pointed out is that Joe DiGenova was out to get him. And all of a sudden, Joe DiGenova turns around and says, makes a noisy exit and says, essentially, he's been pressured to move too fast, that he wanted to run a proper investigation into an absurd conspiracy investigation. Let's suggest we should remind listeners what this grand conspiracy investigation is.

1:02:31It's every sort of MAGA podcast bleeding that you've heard about the deep state wrapped into a criminal investigation. It is the theory that every investigation that annoyed Trump from Crossfire Hurricane to his criminal indictments was, in fact, a criminal conspiracy by the deep state and all the people he doesn't like. from John Brennan on Outward. Dozens of enemies on the list that he's checking off the box. Now, Joe DiGenova is out saying that he wanted to run it right, but the main justice wants to move too quickly. You know, it sounds a bit like a frustrated chef saying, you know, I didn't have the organic ingredients for my turd sandwich.

1:03:20It's absolutely ludicrous. But he's out. but the investigation is ongoing. They're still going to pursue this theory that an investigation that ran more than a decade ago is somehow going to vault the statute of limitations, and they're going to connect them all to an elaborate plot against Trump, even though the investigations that they claim are a criminal conspiracy led to indictments. In many cases, criminal convictions and in other cases would likely have led to criminal convictions had they gone to trial. So Joe DiGenova, the standard bearer for this investigation, the lead grand conspiracy theorist is exiting noisily, but the farcical probe continues.

1:04:13Popok:Yeah, they've got people inside the administration who are also conspiracy theorists, who are now, I guess, trying to replace Joe DiGenova. But they got a major problem that nobody ever talks about. You can't do a grand conspiracy theory prosecution and investigation in one location unless that one location is the situs for the crimes. And the Supreme Court made that ruling earlier this year about criminal cases, about venue. And everybody was like, oh, that's why Jack Smith did it at Mar-a-Lago and did it with, instead of doing it in D.C. because he knew that decision was going to come down. No one talks about that decision.

1:04:55Popok:I think that's why people come to LegalIF. You can't, whatever Barack Obama didn't do or John O 'Bretton didn't do or James Comey didn't do, they didn't do it in Florida. Right. And so Miami or Fort Pierce, Southern District of Florida, is not the proper venue. If they did anything, they did it in D.C. And so you'd have to be having a, you'd have to have, wait for it, everybody, Chief Judge Jeb Bosberg presiding over grand juries in the District of Columbia, who is on the enemies list for Donald Trump because of his, we haven't updated that on that recently, we'll do it soon, about his criminal contempt proceedings in Donald Trump's use of the Alien Enemies Act to remove people without due process.

1:05:44Popok:And so they've gone after Jeb Bozberg. They try to get as far away from him as possible. The problem is you can't just rant. Like some people may be thinking, well, why don't they just go to North Dakota? Why don't they just go to that one judge in Abilene, Texas, or Judge Kazmarek, right? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, if you could run a grand conspiracy anywhere, but the issue is you can't. So there's a fundamental flaw. There's a fundamental fly in the ointment when it comes to this grand conspiracy is it's that you can't cite it in Florida. And that will be the subject of future motion practice whenever they get any indictment off the ground.

1:06:24Popok:But I do appreciate the aggressive approach and posture to John Brennan. I'm watching it like, is this going to work? It's like genius if it works, where you sue first in D.C. in a friendly territory about your future potential indictment. Even Gia Cobb, who was presiding over the case recently, was like, wait a minute, you're not indicted yet, but you want me to order something about them preserving documents because you think they're going to. But just the fact they're having the hearing, John Brennan has won. The fact that there's even a hearing about it, whether he wins or loses, he's already won.

1:07:02Popok:So you and I are going to be reporting on this grand conspiracy. But I want people to put this episode at a time capsule. Popak says this will ultimately fail because you can't run it through a Florida venue just because you want to get Aileen Cannon to preside over it. because she's the most malleable of federal judges for Donald Trump. Right. And it's very transparent why they put it in Fort Pierce, Florida, because it goes to her. It's a very small courtroom. She's the only game in town. And I think you're right, Popak. It's a transparent venue gambit that is eventually going to explode in their faces.

1:07:43But then again, Then it's the old expression, you can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride. They just want to drag out the investigation. They want to get this if they can to indictments, and they don't care what happens after that.

1:07:59Popok:Absolutely. It's a version of, and you'll appreciate this because of what you do in courtrooms, it's a version of a perp walk. It's just a perp walk of Obama and Brennan and Comey in the form of continued publicity about an indictment that will ultimately fall flat on its face, but not after a year goes by and terrible headlines go up that have to be refuted by these people, much like Kilmer Abrego Garcia. Most people probably think Gilmore Obrego Garcia did something wrong and it deserves to be out of the country just because. And the end of the story where he gets his indictment dismissed for vindictive prosecution and gets a judge to release him from jail.

1:08:38Popok:And he's still in the United States as last I looked. That sort of is at the bottom of the birdcage. Right. And they're still trying to get him dumped in any country in Africa or any country that he does not have a connection to, has no link or desire to go to. They want to send him there just to send a message. They're still fighting him. And it goes to that expression. You can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride. And they recognize that. Yeah. So let's let's end our show with let's give an update about the Trump administration trying to bring and revive and resuscitate. And it's like a seance, bring back from the dead Lindsay Halligan as a prosecutor and John Zarkone, who just got bounced.

1:09:27Popok:So there's a series. In fact, they've lost every case that the Trump administration has taken up on appeal about these issues below the Supreme Court. They've lost the Nevada U.S. attorney bounced. They're still fighting the Central District of California in L.A. bounced. Sarkoni, Northern District, New York, bounced. Lindsay Halligan fired. Lena Habba bounced. So they're over, I don't know, six, eight, ten. And yet they and yet, you know, you've got to give them credit. It's like dumb and dumber. even when they have no chance, not in a million years, they don't even have the million years, and they're still bringing these appeals.

1:10:14Popok:Update our audience about what's happening with these. Well, earlier this week, the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals was hearing an appeal to resuscitate the Comey, effectively, to resuscitate the Comey and Letitia James cases by reversing the ruling about Lindsey Halligan's appointment. Now, it appears, based on what I heard of that hearing, that Comey and Letitia James are going to be fine. If I were to guess, and predictions are always murky on these things, I would guess that it's a two-to-one decision. It's astonishing that there is one judge that is taking the theory of the legitimacy of Lindsey Halligan's appointment seriously, but it appears that one judge is doing so based on what I heard.

1:11:06That said, what we have been reporting here on Legal AF and All Rise News all this time has been that the appointments clause challenge makes sure that the representatives of the people, which is to say the Senate, Congress, the Senate advice and consent process is followed. And what happens time and again, and it happened with Sarcone, it happened with Halligan, neither of these people have any qualifications and could be appointed through that process. So they tried to cut corners. And as you said, Popak, every judge who has heard these cases challenging the appointments under the Appointments Clause of the Constitution, under the Federal Vacancies Reform Act, has ruled against the Trump administration.

1:11:56I don't think that's going to change. Sarcone, it should be noted, he was trying to pursue a second investigation into Letitia James, and that collapsed when a judge found his appointment trajectory was so off that he couldn't even pursue a subpoena, an investigatory subpoena of the New York Attorney General's office. Pure payback from Trump because Tish James successfully brought the business fraud lawsuit against his business empire, the civil fraud case. And both of those cases collapsed because serious prosecutors won't do it. It's why Trump is working so hard to get these former lawyers, personal attorneys for him to stack the deck and to pursue cases that no serious prosecutor would do.

1:12:56Popok:Yeah, I think that's such a great summary. If you like great summaries and analysis about the intersection of law and politics, think about Adam Klassfeld, All Rise News on Substack, his video work over on Legal AF YouTube channel. We're on our two-year birthday. Adam has been there almost from the very beginning. I don't know if it was the first month, but you were there. I think we had like 25 ,000 subscribers. We now are 1.24 million strong and growing 815 million views, including a lot of Adam Glasfeld's work. Now's a great time. It'd be a memorable time, a personal favor to me to become a subscriber for Legal AF, the YouTube channel, and help us get to one and a half million by the time the midterms roll around.

1:13:41Popok:and then we're moving. Our goal is 2 million before the 2028 election. At the rate we're going, with the generosity of our audience, it will happen. Substack for Legal AF and for All Rise News, sometimes we join forces in a live report that I do on Legal AF YouTube channel. Top 20 in US news. These are not just stats. These are people. These are our audience and their devotion to what we do and commitment to what we do. And we are honored by it. We're motivated by it. to bring the heat, to bring the truth. I joked yesterday during my Intersection podcast that my new, I think I'm gonna make it my ringtone, when Chuck Grassley yelled out at Senator Cory Booker, will you just shut up?

1:14:26Popok:It was like a Ted Stevens moment. Will you just shut? No, no, the anti-Trumpers are not going to shut up. We are actually going to put that energy to good use come the midterms and beyond. And I think being here with this community is one way to do it. Adam, you're All Rise News on Substack, right? That's right. All Rise News on Substack. That's where you want to find everybody. And of course, shout out to our pro-democracy sponsors who have been with us. Some of them from the very beginning of the show, six years ago. Some from who just came on, but all curated through Jordi Micellis and me here on Legal AF.

1:15:09Popok:Adam, thanks for pitching in and always love having you here and over on Legal AF, the YouTube channel. Always a pleasure, Michael. We'll do it again sometime soon. Yeah, thanks for being here. Shout out to the Midas Mighty and the Legal AFers.