Legal AF Full Episode - 11/26/2025

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28:06Michael Popok:Chief Judge Bozberg in D.C., back in March, that's how old this matter is, right at the beginning of the Trump administration, when they try to use the Alien Enemies Act to start deporting human beings without due process in the middle of the night, sometimes children, sent 200 Venezuelans to El Salvador to be tortured at the Seacott prison in return for El Salvador getting$6 million for the United States. And Boesburg didn't like it, especially when the ACLU ran into court early and said, they're fueling the jets and they're sending them to El Salvador away from your federal jurisdiction after the suit was filed, judge.

28:48Michael Popok:And he said, no, they're not. I'm going to hold a hearing. And he held a hearing and he ordered that all planes that had left yet be grounded. He ordered the ones that were in the air be returned. And they didn't do any of that. Then they sent in a purposeful, willfully blind lawyer named Drew Ensign who said to the judge, I don't know, I told him about your order, Judge, but I don't know what they're doing. And that was all a lie. And how do we know that? Because there's a whistleblower named Erez Riveni, who I just learned today, has joined Democracy Forward working with Sky Perryman as a new lawyer.

29:24Michael Popok:Boy, is he going to be a secret weapon for Skye in her hundred cases that she's, especially in ones involving immigration. And so hats off and congratulations to Skye Perryman, Democracy Forward and Erez Riveni. And Erez had a 35 page or so whistleblower complaint right at the time that Emil Bovee, Donald Trump's former criminal defense lawyer and number three, the Department of Justice was nominated and up for confirmation hearing to be on the Third Circuit Court of Appeals. There he is, sitting in Philadelphia, of all places. And Emil Bovey said, I was promoted on March, I think March the 13th or 14th, right around the time of the hearings with Judge Bozberg.

30:06Michael Popok:And right after I was promoted, I was ushered into a room. And I was there with all the other immigration litigation people for the Department of Justice. And there was Emil Bovey who told us in no uncertain terms that we are to hide the fact that we're using the Alien Enemies Act to whisk people out of the country and that we're to tell judges who ask about it to go F off, literally to go F off. And he was very, very concerned about that, and he refused to do it. He then phoned in for a hearing with Judge Boesberg, the one I'm talking about now, in which he says Drew Ensign, who was his boss, effectively lied to Judge Boesberg about the planes and where they were located.

30:47Michael Popok:I still think they're lying because I read the new filing they made last night, Karen, and they still are fudging the timeline of when planes were not in the air. So he, Judge Boesberg, started a contempt proceeding. He asked the ACLU if they wanted contempt. They said yes. He started a contempt proceeding. Now, subsequent to that, he started it in April. The United States Supreme Court vacated, blocked his earlier temporary restraining order and found that he didn't have the power to do that. This is a different issue. This isn't about whether his order later was overturned by the Supreme Court.

31:30Michael Popok:The question is, at the time, it was a valid and binding federal court order from one branch to another, whether you're allowed to just stub your nose at it and flout and say, well, I think you're going to be reversed one day, so I'm just going to keep flying my planes away from federal jurisdiction and oversight. And I think the answer to that question is no. And there's just case law that's longer than my arm that's out there about you have to comply with the federal court order unless and until you're told otherwise by an appellate court. And you can't just on your own use self-help and violate it.

32:04Michael Popok:So after a bunch of appeals, he restarted this hearing. And the first thing he said at the hearing a couple days ago, Karen, was, I want to hear from Erez Riveni, which is exactly what you and I had said. When Erez Riveni's 35 pages came out, whistleblower. I said, there's two people that are going to want to hear from Erez Reveni, Judge Zinnis about the Abrego Garcia case and Judge Bozberg, because now we have the answer. Why weren't they listening to Bozberg and Zinnis in their orders? Because Amel Bovee told the lawyers not to listen to the judges and effectively told the Homeland Security Director, Kristi Noem, to keep flying the planes and we'll deal with it later.

32:50Michael Popok:So now we got this amazing potential hearing with some very interesting guest appearances under oath to talk to Judge Bozberg. What do you think, Karen? Look, this is really this one's going to be interesting because Christy Noem says that she sought legal advice, right, about whether or not they had to listen to Bozberg's order. So they're admitting that he gave an order, but it was an oral order at the time, right? He said it on the record orally. And so she claimed she saw it, and I'm putting air quotes for people who are listening and not watching, legal advice from Todd Blanche, Emile Vove, and others, and asking them, do I have to listen or not?

33:37And she's claiming that they gave her legal advice that she didn't have to listen and she sent the planes off. Now, the reason I bring that up is because there's a defense, right? There's this advice of counsel defense. She can kind of rely on that in this criminal contempt proceeding that's happening in front of Judge Boesberg when he's looking at whether to bring criminal contempt. And she's going to lean on the, well, I was relying on advice of counsel, which is, I think this one's going to be hard because this is not really within the law, within the bounds of the law. Of course, an oral order of a judge is enforceable.

34:13I mean, I was thinking when I read that, that that's their position that, well, it wasn't in writing. Well, first of all, it was on the record, meaning it was transcribed by a court reporter. Therefore, it is in writing. And I'm thinking about all the times there are never writings. like in an emergency search warrant that you have to do orally or an emergency eavesdropping warrant that you have to do orally. Those have complete full effect in cases, right? Judges orally do things. Or if a judge tells you to do something or orders you to do something on the record and you don't, then they can hold you in contempt.

34:46Not everything comes out in a written order. I mean, so to me, it's just such a preposterous position to take that they are taking that this was advice of counsel. So this is going to be, I think, a major hearing where they're going to try to call Emile Bove, who was at the time the number two at the Department of Justice, but is now an appellate judge, a federal appeals court judge. So I don't know how you call a federal appeals court judge to testify. That'll be interesting. And Todd Blanche, who's currently right the number two at the doj who's going to have to also talk about this that they gave this advice but i mean what what a what a pickle this this has they've created by making these claims

35:30Michael Popok:bovie was three and blanche was two sorry i don't know i promoted him i promoted him i apologize and now stan woodward is number three who just showed up on the 46 people who donated to donald Trump and his transition campaign. Five of them are now in the administration, including Howard Lutnick, Linda McMahon, Stan Woodward, and a couple of other people. Talk about pay to play. All right. So we're going to see what's going to happen with Judge Bozberg. There's going to be appeals again. And already the administration, I said in an earlier hot take today that that the Boesberg's not going to be pleased with the filing by the Department of Justice, which effectively told them to go pound sand, that he was wrong, that the appellate process said he was wrong, that they were not in contempt.

36:24Michael Popok:And then they fudged the, which I think is another perjury problem, except it wasn't done under oath, but it's a problem for the lawyers who signed that pleading. I think they got the time of the planes wrong. was I've seen earlier versions that the judge was focused on, which said that some of those planes were not out of U.S. airspace. And I think now they've wallpapered over that with they just alighted over it with a with a little flick of the pen or the computer screen. And I think they're going to be in big trouble. But, you know, Boesburg, they're trying to undermine Boesburg left and right.

36:59Michael Popok:You know, you got Pam Bondi saying he's a terrorist enabler. I'm just crazy shit to say out loud by the chief legal officer, or the Attorney General of the United States against a federal judge. I mean, I can't wait. I wish I could just time travel to the end of this administration and get a Democrat back in office and get the Department of Justice right again. And, like, if I never hear – it's like a silent movie star. Like, I never want to hear from the Attorney General unless I really have to. instead of these crazy, insufferable press conferences, you know, with her resting attorney general face that she's developed.

37:46Michael Popok:You know, hmm, hmm, hmm. Like, do I need to see this? I mean, this isn't wallpapering over your defects, your lack of ethics, your lack of leadership and independence as an attorney general. And it's not working with the American people. You know, so I don't know why they continue to play this card, except they're pandering to the only person that matters to them, which is Donald Trump. But we'll be them if we're right that the slip on power has happened. And Donald Trump was already like closing, putting the lid on his day at three thirty, four o 'clock in the afternoon. And, you know, and all of that there, they don't have presidential immunity.

38:26Michael Popok:and some of the things that they're within a five-year statute of limitations for some of the crimes that they have committed. You know, they act so imperiously, so like they're never going to be caught for what they're doing. They are. And I think they're starting to realize it as we're watching the implosion of the MAGA movement. It's all you can call it. You know, Mike Johnson's not going to be there through the midterms. It's not just Marjorie Taylor Greene. It's going to be the permission that Marjorie Taylor Greene has given to others in her party to throw up the middle finger to the White House and say, I'm tired of being abused by effing Stephen Miller.

39:08Michael Popok:Who elected him? Who elected Pam Bondi? Who elected any of these people other than Trump? And if there's three, four or five people that go, I'm out even before the midterms, forget about playing with the maps, the congressional maps. they'll lose their hold on power in Congress now. And it's just, I don't know what they thought. It's just the abuse of power. They just got power mad, drunk on power. And we'll have to continue. I agree with you, Popok, that for the first time, we're really seeing fissures in the MAGA movement. You're really seeing that there is infighting. There are problems. There are people like Marjorie Taylor Greene and others who are fed up with the fact that the Trump administration is not doing what they said they were going to do.

40:02And it's not just Epstein transparency that they promised and assured everyone that they were going to be. But it's also putting America first. Right. Right. No prices aren't going down. Trump is flying all around the Middle East and and buying up companies for him for his own his own edification and making him and his family members more wealthy and not spending time at home. I read something recently talking about how he seems really tired and he's falling asleep and he doesn't come down from the from from his part of the White House until noon. and then he stops all his meetings at five. I mean, I think you're really starting to see that he is ailing, he's aging, and he's really losing his support from a lot of his base.

40:51And I think he feels it, because you can see by what he's panicking about, but with his screeds. So it's interesting. And I think you're 100 % right. We're seeing it and we're seeing it play out in real time and nothing could make me happier.

41:04Michael Popok:Look at the six paragraphs that he wrote against the New York Times reporter who wrote an obvious story about what we're watching with our own eyes. His flagging energy, his putting a lid on the day early. And then he called her, I mean, he can't help himself. He called her ugly inside and out, the failing New York Times. Here we go. I stopped eight wars. I don't, what wars? I know. Name what? Forget eight. So, I mean, even Ukraine, Russia, they bombed Ukraine yesterday. Nine more people died. What war is ended? You know, so it's just that implosion we were hoping for. I didn't think it was going to happen in month 10 or in, you know, so soon.

41:54Michael Popok:But it's here and we need to capitalize on it. I want to talk about Eric Swalwell. So Donald Trump figured out, and I called it a mass conspiracy, that if he had Bill Pulte, the Nepo baby from the Pulte construction fortune, who he took over Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and have him go after Democrats for quote unquote mortgage fraud, he'd get a lot of mileage out of it, political mileage out of it. So all of a sudden, you know, three months ago, here's the conspiracy. Bill Pulte, at the demand of Donald Trump, goes and writes a phony memo. And then he sends that memo and on his social media post to Pam Bondi.

42:32Michael Popok:And he says, oh, look at these signatures on these two documents, not looking at the rest of the file for a mortgage or anything else. Oh, this is mortgage fraud. They're two primary homes. Or this is a secondary home, but you can't rent it out. And what's the niece doing there? I mean, just crazy shit about how people run their lives. And, of course, ignoring the fact that his own parents, the Pultys, committed this, quote-unquote, mortgage fraud in Michigan and Florida in claiming two primary residences, or that Scott Bessett, the Treasury Secretary, did the exact same thing, or 20 % of the Cabinet did, including the Transportation Secretary and the Labor Secretary, because it's not fraud.

43:14Michael Popok:It's not fraud if the bank isn't defrauded. If the bank knows they're lending you both loans, they know you can't have two primary homes. If they gave you a lower rate, it's because you're a good customer or it's because you're the attorney general or because you're a senator. They're not worrying about you going bankrupt like Donald Trump or foreclosing on your house. So he slaps this together and puts up this, look at these signatures. Oh, this is interesting. And then shade is cast on these people. and then because Pam Bonilla, oh, I'm going to open up an investigation. Who can I use? Oh, Ed Martin.

43:49Michael Popok:Oh, John Cercote. Oh, Lindsay Halligan. Oh, oh, oh. And now you've got the front page headline that Donald Trump wants. It's all he wants. That's his pound of flesh. Federal criminal probes open about mortgage fraud. Adam Schiff, Shifty Schiff, Patricia James, Jigaboo James or whatever he used to call her, Peekaboo James. And who's the last one? Oh, Lisa Cook on the Federal Reserve. And then we had a report last week that maybe, although I'm not sure it's true, maybe in a grand jury, some DOJ people were actually looking at Pulte and Ed Martin to see if they committed any crimes. But now we've got Eric Swalwell, I think right on time, like exquisite timing, because there was a referral from this Pulte guy about Swalwell's mortgages.

44:39Michael Popok:He said, screw that. I don't need a criminal referral hanging over my head. I'm going to sue Pulte. So take it from there and tell our audience what judge just got assigned to it. Yes, Judge Boseberg, our favorite judge. So basically, what Pulte's saying is that, I'm sorry, what Swalwell's saying is that Pulte abused his position by going through and scouring the databases of mortgage records and selectively looking for records to create these allegations, these fake allegations of mortgage fraud, and ask the judge to declare Pulte's actions illegal. and direct him to withdraw his criminal referral.

45:21And so it's almost like a vindictive prosecution claim in advance because a criminal referral is slightly different than a prosecution. It basically, what criminal referrals are is government agencies who don't have the ability to prosecute, but they uncover illegal activity within their agencies. They can refer the matters to the Department of Justice. And so, Pulte's agency has made this criminal referral. And what Pulte's essentially doing is saying, this is vindictive, even though he's not really exactly using those words, because vindictive prosecution is a term of art after a prosecution has been brought.

46:03But that's essentially what he's doing. This is like that. It's like he's saying, it's vindictive in advance. And because, you know, there's look, there's all sorts of federal privacy laws that prohibit officials from going into the private information of citizens and use this, use that information to go after your political opponents. And so he also raised First Amendment claims, basically saying that the effort to get the DOJ to investigate him was retaliatory and to punish him for his political speech. And he writes in his filing, you know, the First Amendment is first for a reason. Freedom of speech comes before all others.

46:41And I'm allowed to say what I want to say, but you're not allowed to then vindictively go and search through confidential information looking for something against me. So it was this is I think he's got a great lawsuit and I'm glad he brought it. And, you know, let's let's see. Let's see where it goes. You know, Pulte is also the guy who sent a referral, by the way, that led to the indictment against Letitia James, the New York attorney general. That was dismissed by Judge Curry as well on Monday, I think it was. So I think I think it'll be interesting to see where this goes.

47:21Michael Popok:In the meantime, you know, he's the head of something, which means there's an oversight capacity to Senate and the House. And with the slip on power by Donald Trump and MAGA heading for the exits, certainly not wanting to run in his shadow. Who's going to want to now with Donald Trump's independent, independent voter approval rating at 26 percent? Who's who's going to want to run clinging to Donald Trump? You know, his superpowers are effectively done. The rapidity or velocity at which Donald Trump has lost his powers to help candidates is stunning, really stunning. I think it started with well before election night three weeks ago, but certainly proved itself election night three weeks ago.

48:05Michael Popok:And the perfect timing, exquisite timing by Eric Swalwell to take on the administration, take on Bill Pulte head to head. And he's got the right judge and Judge Bozberg. We'll see what happens next. And we will report on it. And Pulte will one day be in front of a committee having to answer questions about that, which he's done. And if I'm in the oversight committee or the committee responsible for financial services or the mortgage industry, I bring in Pulte right away and talk about his side gig at being Donald Trump's attack dog and rummaging around the private records of Americans and putting them out for public display in a half-assed manner in order to throw shade on them.

48:48Michael Popok:It's not right. It's not fair. It's not democratic. It's not American. And it needs to stop along with this administration, right? Yeah, absolutely. You know, it's funny. This reminds me that growing up, my parents' generation was very much about privacy and not letting the government get your information and not letting the government have personal stuff about you. And I always thought they're so paranoid, you know, because it was all like the age of the Internet and being being suspect of all of computers and databases and that sort of stuff. And again, I always thought it was kind of paranoid.

49:25But you look at what they're doing. You look at what this government is doing with people's personal information and going into databases, whether it's Doge with going into everyone's social security information. You look at what they have access to. And not only do they have access to it, but that they are going through our personal information in order to go after their political enemies. It is frightening. And we are living in a time that is frankly, really frightening. And thank God for the judges who are the last check, but is stopping so far a lot of the stuff that's going on and the abuses that are going on.

50:09And I want to give a shout out to all the judges who are holding down the fort. You know, the founders who had three branches of government and checks and balances, etc. were so just genius and prescient. And because Congress seems to be not showing up and not doing their job and really just feckless, it's just amazing that the judiciary has held up and is holding the line. even Trump-appointed judges and are ruling against him. So that's a good thing. And I think there's reason for us all to continue to have a lot of hope because we do have this great system of checks and balances. And so let's keep fighting and keep bringing these cases and keep pushing back against this authoritarian regime.

50:59Michael Popok:Can you imagine if Congress was strong and the president was strong and the judges were weak? Imagine we just had a, first of all, I don't know what our show would be about. We lost again today in federal court. Federal judges not doing their job. I guess that would be the show. But I'm glad you're right that the last firewall to protect democracy and our rule of law is holding strong, even if we have to hold our breath every time a case gets to the United States Supreme Court. When we come back, I want to take another break. I wish everybody an amazing Thanksgiving. Now's the time to pull your family even closer and friends even closer.

51:39Michael Popok:Thanksgiving has always been my favorite holiday, not only because it's just what it sort of represents about family. And I love all the foods. It's also very close to my birthday. So I've always loved Thanksgiving. In fact, there's a great photo of my late mom and me. God, I think I was about five or six. And I was obviously at a Thanksgiving table at my grandparents' house in Long Island, of all places. and I can see the birthday cake for me on the table because they would use that to kind of kick off my birthday. So I always have fond memories about that. And so for those that want to help us in going into 2026, what an important year for us to continue what we've built together brick by brick here on Legal AF 2026.

52:22Michael Popok:Wow. I mean, if it wasn't obvious before that that's the year where real change happens. It is now. But we're doing the right thing, being together now. Legal AF, been there from the start, five years, as you know, a five-year-old podcast. Help us on the audio side of this podcast. Come over to Apple and Spotify, leave reviews, five-star reviews and comments. The audio does really well, but we could always do better on YouTube. And you can send it off to people in your life and ask them to join us. And that helps us stay at the top of the YouTube rankings along with some other work that I do along the week.

53:04Michael Popok:And then we've got the Legal AF YouTube channel. That's where we really drill down. That's where the TED Talk meets the law school class, 12 different contributors. I do the first four videos a day. And then I've got Adam Klassfeld, All Rise News, and Sidney Blumenthal, and Sean Willence of A Court of History. We've got the ACLU over there. We've got Democracy Forward over there with us. We've got Court Accountability Action, one of our first contributors that joined right away. Dina Dahl joins me once a week to talk about the Supreme Court on a show called Unprecedented, all on Legal AF YouTube channel.

53:44Michael Popok:With your help, we'll cross the 1 million subscriber threshold, that important ceiling to give us street credibility to bring on the guests that you want to hear from, the elected officials. the judges, the former judges, the law professors, help us cross that million subscriber barrier. And then, of course, we've got Legal AF, the Substack, which is where you can read the orders that we talk about on the show. We've got live reporting there that we can only do there, not on YouTube because of the nature of the platform and the rest. So come over to Legal AF Substack as well. And now a word from our sponsors.

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57:01Michael Popok:Welcome. Welcome back to the Thanksgiving family edition of LEGALAF. Yes, this is Francesca, my daughter, for those that are wondering, future podcaster, president of the United States and or and or chief justice of the United States Supreme Court. You be the judge. I saw Ben brought in his daughter. I was like, wait, I want to bring in my daughter to work day. She's so gorgeous. She's so gorgeous. Hi, Francesca. Look at that little face. That's Aunt KFA. That's the face of a future Supreme Court justice. That's what I see. All right. We're going to take we're going to take let's pick it up with Georgia.

57:43Michael Popok:And I'll turn it over to you, Karen, while I take care of my daughter for a second. Georgia there was a prosecution it was brought by somebody named Fonnie Willis remember that it was so long ago Fonnie Willis decides she's got a Rico case racketeering and that so long baby and that she's going to bring it against Donald Trump and a whole bunch of other people including Rudy Giuliani and all of his lawyers and it looks so great and at one point it was leading and then your old office Alvin Bragg he got ahead with his prosecution and then what happened Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's Bonnie Willis had an unfortunate relationship with her lead prosecutor that then called everything into question and the case spiraled out of control.

58:27and she was ultimately taken off the case and they were looking for another prosecutor to prosecute the case and what just came out is the in Georgia there's a I guess a head prosecutor or or a consortium of prosecutors that they all belong to and and the president of that basically said I couldn't find another prosecutor who would take this case nobody wanted to touch it besides you couldn't prosecute a sitting president until after the president is no longer president. So we'd have to wait for three years for that. And besides, presidential immunity has come down. And so we'd have to sort through all the immunity questions and essentially just said, we're dismissing this case.

59:13The prosecutor, this prosecutor also said, which I thought was ridiculous. I mean, all of those things are disappointing, but I understand them. What I thought was ridiculous was he said that that call to Brad Raffensperger, the Secretary of State of Georgia saying, find me the 11 ,800 and whatever number of votes, that that could be interpreted in two different ways. And when there's ambiguity and things can be interpreted in two different ways, the tie goes to the defendant, which is a concept in criminal law. But there is no way, in my opinion, you can say with a straight face that that was what Trump was doing.

59:54He was absolutely trying to have there be basically trying to get fraud, you know, find fraudulent votes is, I think, pretty clear. Anyway, that's a question for the jury to decide. And he was indicted by the grand jury. And that's not the only charge. It was a sweeping RICO case that You can't just look at that one phone call out of context. You have to look at it in the context of everything else that he was charged of doing, like getting fake electors to come in and, you know, all the other schemes that were going on. I mean, 18 people were indicted and it was a huge, sweeping, very long indictment that that had charge after charge and Rico predicate after Rico predicate and overt act over overt act in the conspiracy.

1:00:44I mean, it listed out such a web of lies and fraud and deceit. And when you look at that phone call in the context of the entire case, there is no way, in my opinion, that you can say, oh, well, he could have just been saying, oh, look, I'm questioning the election and there could be irregularities. So let's do, you know, let's look for the irregularities. I mean, I think that just is bananas. So I think I'm really disappointed that he said that. But the bottom line is no one in Georgia, no prosecutor is willing to touch it with a 20-foot pole that they think it's a political hot potato and no one wants to get under Trump's ire.

1:01:29He also said, by the way, this is more appropriately brought by special counsel Jack Smith, but that case was dismissed because he has immunity. How is it more appropriate for Jack Smith if the president, if Trump has immunity? That makes no sense either. So it's just clear that they didn't want to touch it. Georgia is basically a red state and they don't want to go after Trump because it has, you do that and it has consequences for people who are elected. I still support Fonny Willis. I don't think her relationship, her personal relationship is anyone's business and certainly is not a disqualification for this case.

1:02:08I think that was a little bit of a, of a just, I don't know, hatchet job on a black woman in the South. and I think she brought a incredible case. She put a lot of work into it. It was a righteous prosecution and I'm thankful that she at least brought to light all of the abuses of all of the individuals that participated in that scheme and that that will be a record in history going forward and even if nothing happened with it, it's not going to get completely swept out of the record books of history. So, you know, but that case is over for now or forever, I guess.

1:02:49Michael Popok:And then you got the crazy House Oversight Judiciary Committee going after Jack Smith and Jack Smith's prosecutors. You know, who's going to take, I mean, I give you a lot of credit for being a prosecutor for 30 years. Who want to take this job, especially when you're being attacked for just doing your civil service, just doing in a nonpolitical way where the facts lead you and wielding your particular prosecutorial power in the right way. I mean, the fact that Jack Smith even has to answer to these yahoos in the House, and it's not helping them. If they thought, they didn't obviously get the memo of what's happened since the shutdown and since election night in America and since the Epstein scandal has so spectacularly blown up in the face of Donald Trump.

1:03:39Michael Popok:And the fact that after yet another year of high prices and no relief in sight, and a president that seems out of tune, completely out of tune with the sufferings of America, and even goes out of his way to make Americans suffer, that they still think that people care about them going after Jack Smith, where it doesn't boomerang and hit them back in the head. That's not what it looks like to the American people. It looks like an out of control, deranged MAGA elected officials doing Donald Trump's bidding, what's left of them, to the detriment of the American people. I just saw a number before we came on the air today.

1:04:21Michael Popok:Get this number, Karen. The American people are going to foot the bill for over$300 million for Donald Trump to go golfing while he's in office. $300 million.

1:04:38That's crazy. That's absolutely crazy. You know, Popak, you just reminded me of something when you said who in their right mind would do this, right? Who in their right mind would be a prosecutor and subject themselves to this? You know, I was a prosecutor, as you said, for 30 years. And the last third of my time, I was the number two at the Manhattan DA's office. And when Cy Vance, the Manhattan DA, told me that he wasn't going to run again, I had to make a choice because whoever the next DA was going to be certainly would want to bring in their own number two. So I had to decide, do I want to run for office myself?

1:05:19And do I want to be the next Manhattan DA? Or do I want to leave and go do something else? And I actually went through the process of thinking about running and going through what it would be like to your family, to your life, to be a politician, a prosecutor in this day, right, with what everything is going on. And I ultimately made the choice that I made, which is not to run. And and I but I think about all the time what you just said, which is what all these people who do make that choice, these amazing public servants who give up so much of their privacy. see the people who are getting attacked by the president of the United States and others who he has appointed who are getting doxxed, who are getting these terrible bomb threats, these fake bomb threats at their houses, who have to have security 24-7, who have their personal lives turned upside down and who are completely just attacked for just being normal people.

1:06:30and yet these are people who are public servants. They don't make a lot of money and they are here to serve us and we abuse them. And I don't mean us, but we, our society right now because of who the president is. And so it's really, I just hold people who do make that choice to be prosecutors and to devote, to make the sacrifices that they're making, especially now, which is an unprecedented time. Those are people who deserve our praise and who deserve our support. And I, you know, I really, I just want to give a shout out to them and the judges and all the other public servants out there who are upholding the rule of law and who are trying to do the right thing because the Department of Justice right now is unrecognizable.

1:07:17They're, they, what is happening in the Department of Justice and the prosecutors who are there, how they're, how, how they, the things they are being asked to do and not do is beyond atrocious what's happening. So I hope when the Democrats are back in office and we can return our society back to a society of laws and order and justice and not political vengeful retributions and bringing cases that don't exist out of thin air against people like James Comey or Letitia James, all the people at Adam Schiff, these are all public servants. These are people who have sacrifice to serve us. And being a public servant is not easy.

1:08:00So I, you know, I, I, I'm just appalled. I'm absolutely appalled at what's going on.

1:08:06Michael Popok:And to our audience and back to my point about 2026 being so important. And the last week, I've had interactions with like 13 or 11 attorneys general for the Democrats live and in person when I went out to Arizona to interview them. And the product of that is now up on Legal AF YouTube channel. And I spoke to Lee Galert, who's the head of the immigration litigation division of the American Civil Liberties Union. And they all unsolicited said effectively the same thing, which is we, and they're talking about the lawyers that are in the courtrooms, on the front line, and are the first responders.

1:08:46Michael Popok:We need you, Legal AF, and your audience, and the support that you're giving us, that's the heavy artillery that's pinning down the elected officials as we do battle in the courtrooms. And they put it in those terms, almost in those exact terms. And it was interesting because to hear from the actual, newsmakers is the wrong word, the actual litigators and trial lawyers and organizations that are in the courtrooms every day. We learned that the Democratic Attorneys General talk every other day, all 23 of them and their staff, about how to defeat the Trump administration and its lawlessness every other day in a way that they never did before.

1:09:33Michael Popok:The ACLUs of the world, the Democracy Forwards of the world, they say they can't do their job without our support, without our audience, without the coverage that we provide for them. It's not ego. It's not like, oh, I got 300 ,000 views on my video, you know, interviewing Lee about the new case. It's the attention that is brought to bear on an issue and how it impacts the body politic and those in power. And that made everything that you and I and Ben do on Legal AF World and our contributors there, it made it all worthwhile to hear that from their perspective, they need not just us, Legal AF, the channel, the platform, but they need our audience to be focused on these things.

1:10:24Michael Popok:And they're so respectful and they're so supportive of everything that we do here. And I wanted to accept that compliment and praise on behalf of our audience. But I wanted to talk about it here on our Thanksgiving edition. I love that, Propag. That's like I have the chills. That's like the most wonderful thing I've ever heard. That's like, thank you for saying that. because I love our audience too, so much. And just the community that has developed. And I'm so happy that they also recognize how important they are and what a part of, but just what's going on and how important it is to stay informed and to know what the issues are and to be a part of, you know, the people who show up at these protests, right?

1:11:12And the people who, the No King's Day. And it's because people are involved and engaged. And I just think it's so wonderful. So thank you for sharing that story.

1:11:21Michael Popok:Absolutely. And thank you to our Legal AF audience. We got big things planned here in resistance, if you will, on Legal AF and all its different formats in 2026. But we're not done. You know, we're not pulling in our oars on the eve of Thanksgiving. And I'll be, and Karen will be too. We don't miss a beat. full day of programming up on Thanksgiving Day on Legal AF, the YouTube channel. Back at it on Friday. I'll be traveling for a bit. I got a birthday coming up soon. But, you know, I have a mic. I have a bag. I've got an understanding family. And you'll see me recording while I'm traveling as well.

1:12:01Michael Popok:It's just that important at this moment in time. Nobody wants to look back and say, I could have done one more thing to help the defense of our rule of law. And I never want to look back and say, I could have done one more thing without doing it. So thank you to our audience. Enjoy your family and friends on Thanksgiving because they're so important and to honor them. We honor you. Thank you. We'll see you on Saturday with Ben Micellis and me on Legal AF next week, following with back with Karen Freeman and me here on Legal AF. In the meantime, shout out to the Midas Mighty and the Legal AFers.

1:12:39Happy Thanksgiving.

1:12:49Seriously, why aren't Democrats in Washington doing more to stop Trump?

1:12:52Michael Popok:I know. Have you heard about Phil Weiser in Colorado, though? No. Is he different? Yeah. A.G. Weiser sued the Trump administration 65 times. He's beating Trump in court again and again. Things like protecting Obamacare against Trump's illegal tariffs. And he even won against Ticketmaster. So he actually gets results. Exactly. As Governor, Phil will fight for Colorado. Paid for by Phil Weiser for Colorado Registered Agent, Anna Neskazi. Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same premium wireless for$15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities.

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