Legal AF Full Episode - 12/31/2025

11:25Popok:Police commissioner?

11:26KFA:You know, I'm good. I'm happy. I'm happy being, you know, doing what I'm doing.

11:30Popok:Right. All right.

11:32KFA:But mayor of New York City is an incredible job.

11:34Popok:Salty, weren't you thinking we were about to break the news? I'm sure he had an asset ready.

11:39KFA:No, no. All good. All good. I did my time in public service. I'm very happy.

11:43Popok:You certainly did. All right. Let's begin to doing their time in public service. Jack Smith. Remember him? Special counsel. Only special counsel in history not to be able to report to the American public the results of his investigation. Seriously. You know, special counsel for Nixon, special counsel for Joe Biden and the stupid document thing in his garage. Robert Herr, you know, John Durham, the multiple ones against Donald Trump and people related to him, you know, from Robert Mueller, et cetera, et cetera. And Jack Smith never gets to speak. And he's been trying to speak to the American people.

12:21Popok:Gave some interviews abroad with Andrew Weissman that pissed off Donald Trump, apparently. And then Jim Jordan, who thinks very highly of himself, thought that this would be a good matchup between Jim Jordan, who went to law school apparently but never took the bar, and Jack Smith, one of the greatest lawyers, one of the greatest prosecutors of all time, and that this would not be a tremendous mismatch when the video was finally released. And so we have nine hours of video. It's up on Legal AF Substack for our paid members. We've got the transcript, if you're really interested, also up on Legal AF Substack.

13:06Popok:And now we've had some time to digest it. And I thought, Karen, we would kick it off the way that Jack Smith kicked it off with a clip from his opening statement that he led off the testimony on the 17th of December in the Committee on the Judiciary in the Rayburn building in room 2237 with his lawyer sitting next to him. Let's play the clip of his opening statement. For nearly three decades, I've been a career prosecutor. I've served during both Republican and Democratic administrations, and I've been guided by those principles in every role I've held. I continued to honor those principles when I was appointed to serve as special counsel in November of 2022.

13:58The decision to bring charges against President Trump was mine. But the basis for those charges rests entirely with President Trump and his actions, as alleged in the indictments returned by grand juries in two different districts. Our investigation developed proof beyond a reasonable doubt that President Trump engaged in a criminal scheme to overturn the results of the 2020 election and to prevent the lawful transfer of power. Our investigation also developed powerful evidence that showed that President Trump willfully retained highly classified documents after he left office in January of 2021, storing them at his social club, including in a ballroom and a bathroom.

14:47He then repeatedly tried to obstruct justice to conceal his continued retention of those documents.

14:54Popok:Powerful opening statement, right? takeaway from you, Karen, from what you've, what, for the reporting that you've seen so far on what Smith accomplished and what Jordan thought he was trying to accomplish? Yeah.

15:07KFA:So what was really interesting. So I actually, I'm almost halfway through, I've watched it on double speed because it's nine hours. So, you know, if you put it on two times the speed, you can watch it quicker. It's, it's incredible. And I'm so glad they released it and that we're able to watch it. And what really struck me about the beginning and his opening statement was, first of all, he is the same Jack Smith that he's always been. He is just a good person, a public servant. He cares about the people he works with. He said over and over again how he's there because he thought that the people he worked with, especially the FBI agents who are the good guys, the public servants are getting vilified and unfairly attacked.

15:51KFA:And that when you attack the good guys in life, who is going to who are you left with? You're going to deter people from coming to public service. So he really talked about his motivation for coming forward and for wanting to testify publicly. You know, Jim Jordan wanted to make it seem like like he was there for for for bad reasons. And Jim Jordan was, you know, questioning him and talking to him and asking him to agree with things. that Jack Smith had no problem agreeing with, like principles of prosecution and ethics and things like that. And the big takeaway I had was he comes across as being totally forthcoming, wanting to answer as many questions as he can.

16:33KFA:He has made it clear that he can't talk about the Mar-a-Lago documents case because there's an injunction from Judge Eileen Cannon saying he can't. And so he was honest about that. When he couldn't remember something, he would say he can't remember, but not in an evasive way. He would say things like, even from somebody who was from the Republican Party who was clearly attacking him or trying to do Trump's bidding for him, he would say, well, is it true that this happened on this date? And he'd say, I don't have a recollection of exact dates, but if you say so, I take it as true. Like, you know, he wasn't combative.

17:10KFA:He wasn't trying to only kind of talk to one side and not the other. He was really trying to answer questions honestly. And so I highly recommend people watching it, at least watching part of it. Again, do it on double speed because it takes a lot of time to do it. But you get a real good sense of how just earnest and honest he is. And it's such a contrast to when you hear anyone in the Trump administration speak about anything, how they just attack you and fight with you and gaslight you and talk about facts that aren't true, also known as lies. And he's just totally the opposite. And in some ways, it's just such a breath of fresh air because we need more of this and more of people who just want to tell the truth and speak truths of power.

17:56KFA:One thing I found really interesting was when you listen, almost every single Republican person who questioned him, spent a really long time on the fact that they subpoenaed records, these call records, no content, just who called who on what date of that two-day period from, or I think it was even like 48 hours or 24 hours, January 6th, just to kind of get a sense of what was going on when Trump was not calling off the troops and when he was fomenting violence, etc. And they're like obsessed with the fact that you can subpoena those records. Again, no content, no nothing. And so they're clearly self-interested, not caring about the American people, not caring about the truth, and really just wanting to talk about themselves because, God forbid, someone subpoenas just their records of who they called.

18:48KFA:But I thought Jack Smith did a really great job of fighting back. When they asked him about interested parties who they spoke with and building a case against biased people, with biased people against Donald Trump, Jack Smith fought back and said, this case was built by Republicans. This case was built by allies. This is information that we got from people who are Trump's natural allies and from hard evidence. And so that was excellent, I thought. And another thing I thought was really excellent is they tried to say, oh, Trump has a First Amendment right to question an election. And again, Jack Smith was like, the First Amendment's not absolute.

19:29KFA:You know, you're not, he didn't say this, but you know, you're not allowed to yell fire in a crowded theater. You're not allowed to basically lie, cheat, and steal your way and defraud people. Yes, of course you can question it. Of course you can, you can say things and you can bring court cases like you did. And you can say things publicly, but what Trump did is next level. And he made it very clear that he would have prosecuted under the same facts and the same law, Barack Obama, Joe Biden, and anybody else. This was not political. And it was just a really, I thought, a really great, great testimony on his part, especially just how he handled him.

20:07Popok:Yeah, I'm going to show a couple more clips here. The opening statement we've seen for him, he made it clear he's angered by the fact that people who are public servants who are just doing their job in the Department of Justice and the FBI have been attacked. He said, the person who occupies the highest position in the land has called for me to be jailed. I mean, this is called, Right. Talking about himself for a moment. He said that this was not him going in to a prosecution with a predetermined outcome of finding a crime against Donald Trump. Let's remember that despite Jim Jordan saying that Jack Smith is some sort of zealot, Democratic zealot, that was going to pin a crime on Donald Trump regardless, Jack Smith wasn't even in the country.

21:01Popok:Jack Smith had been out of the country for a number of years at The Hague prosecuting war crimes, and that's why Merrick Garland picked him, so that he could not be attacked for being political. I don't know what his politics are. I don't know if he's a registered independent. I forget at the time what happened. But this is a guy who is out of the mainstream, out of the media world and limelight, doing his job as a prosecutor overseas. That's why he was brought in. He said it wasn't anything other than evidence, not politics, that dictated the outcome. And for those that attacked or found nefarious the timing of the indictments, Jack Smith said the timing had to do with the evidence.

21:49Popok:and when we were ready to indict, because under the Department of Justice manual, the rules of federal prosecution, you don't go after and bring a case as against a president on his way out, who's now campaigning to come back as president, unless you got the goods. You have to have probable cause to indict, that the person committed a crime and you can sustain that conviction through appeal. But Jack Smith went further in the testimony. He said, I had beyond a reasonable doubt evidence. In other words, I would have won on the election interference case, and I had credible evidence in the Mar-a-Lago case.

22:35Popok:In fact, we have a clip on just that point. Let's play it. You just made some pretty definitive statements about, you know, your belief that President Trump was guilty of these charges. Is that correct? Yes, I believe we had proof beyond a reasonable doubt in both cases. And doesn't the justice manual prohibit prosecutors from asserting that a defendant is guilty of something before a jury makes a determination? When a case is pending, yes. so jack okay so to distract from getting schooled by jack smith uh jim jordan came in there with a pre a pre-disposed approach and his was to use the toll records issue as you alluded to to try to argue that there was some sort of uh conspiracy and the problem with that is jack Smith corrected him.

23:31Popok:He says, I didn't get a wiretap. I didn't get a pen register. I didn't intervene. There wasn't a guy in a van. I mean, he didn't say this part. There wasn't a guy in a van with headphones listening to conversations from members of Congress. They had every right to follow the evidence and to see if Donald Trump was using members of Congress who would have been outside their speech and debate protection to interfere with the peaceful transfer of power and slow down certification to give Donald Trump more time to do whatever he was doing, commit crimes, according to Jack Smith. And so to go get effectively the phone bills for members of Congress and senators that only lists phone number originated, phone number called, and duration of call without more is not an invasion of privacy.

24:18Popok:And it is not an improper use of toll records. What Jim Jordan's pissed off about is that he didn't know because there was no policy that would require it, that they were having their phone bills pulled and that they were under investigation in that way. They weren't a target of the investigation. They weren't prosecuted or indicted. In fact, there's an email that Jim Jordan made a big deal out of during the cross-examination of Jack Smith in which he said, oh, you know, I wasn't even going to be indicted along with the rest of them. Right. That's a proper use of prosecutorial discretion. You're just not used to it under the current Department of Justice.

25:01Popok:Let's play one more clip of this losing battle between the House Judiciary Committee and Jack Smith. Let's play another clip. The timing and speed of our work reflects the strength of the evidence and our confidence that we would have secured convictions at trial. If asked whether to prosecute a former president based on the same facts today, I would do so regardless of whether that president was a Republican or a Democrat. So, Karen, what do you think now that the public has finally heard from Jack Smith directly, although not the way we would have wanted it to, which would have been at the time in a public hearing with questions being asked by others, you know, in Congress?

25:44Popok:What do you think the ramifications? Why was this important that this finally came to light, even though on a holiday day? And what do you think the impact is going to be moving forward?

25:56KFA:Yeah, look, first of all, just the timing of the release of this shouldn't be lost on anyone. This was released on New Year's Eve to try to bury it. The whole world is talking about 2025 and feel-good stories and anything in the news. All the reporters, everybody you could tell are sort of taking today off because they're not refreshing new stories very much. It's very much stuff that they had in the can before so everyone can take the day off or the evening off and focus on New Year's Eve and party. So they're burying this. That's why this was released today, number one. Number two, I think that it was interesting because Jack Smith said in no uncertain terms that I believe that Donald Trump is going to come after me if he can.

26:46He's going to try to come after me if he can and try to seek vengeance on me.

26:52KFA:and I thought that was a little chilling and I think what he's basically saying is I have nothing to hide I didn't do anything wrong I'm proud of what I did go ahead anything you dish out I can take it there's no one tougher than Jack Smith he can take it and he's not going to find anything on Jack Smith and so go for it and so you know he I think he was just basically he was calm he was collect cool. He was collected. He, you know, he was getting the rest, setting the record straight because again, the Trump administration loves to spin lies. They love to mischaracterize. And I think the record is very clear here and it's, people are going to be hard pressed to find anything that is going to be able to be proven as, as false, as political, as unethical, as anything other than actually exactly the right thing.

27:45KFA:But I also think the history books needed to be, you know, look, he was invited to testify, right? So they asked for this. And now there's a sworn record for the history books, because Donald Trump buried this, right? He's pardoned everyone under the sun, the cases had to be dismissed. And he's probably going to, you know, who knows, I shouldn't say this, who knows what's going to happen to all the records and the files, right? I mean, there's no clue about whether they'll be preserved or to what extent. And now we have a record from the person who led it, from the person who conducted the investigation of what happened, what didn't happen.

28:23KFA:And it really amplified his report and put a lot of context into not just the what happened, but how they investigated the case, how they prosecuted the case, how they came to the conclusions they came to, and really how this case stood out differently than any other time when a president, for example, questioned elections. And that's one of the things that he was questioned about is, well, what about, you know, what about this president who questioned an election? And Jack Smith would say, yeah, okay, they questioned an election, but no one ever did. And then he would list out all the things that Trump did that were criminal and why he deserved to be prosecuted.

29:04KFA:So I think for no other reason than just his history, this was just an amazing, incredible thing that was done. And in some ways I think backfired for the Republicans because now we have a fuller record of it. All right.

29:18Popok:Well, thank you all for joining us on our special New Year's Eve edition of Legal AF. We wouldn't want to let our audience down and try not to miss a beat. And we've got a special guest interview that'll be coming up after the ad break and our sponsor break of a dear friend of Karen Freeman Ignifolo, who's running for the attorney general position in Colorado, which is going to be vacant because of term limits. And I think you're going to want to hear from this really amazing prosecutor. There he is, Michael Dougherty. And speaking of ways to help on New Year's Eve, as long as you're here, I was pleased to wake up this morning to find that a legal AF substack was number one rising in U.S.

30:06Popok:politics on Substack. And to celebrate that, I'm extending for another day until tomorrow at midnight, a 30 % off sale on Legal AF Substack annual membership. Brings it down to about$6.77 a month. And to answer the question people ask, yes, that's where independent media is living right now, on Substack. And it's a way to show your support. It's a way to do some early voting, to show you like our content. We're doing our part. We're putting up 10, 12 pieces a day of original content up on Legal AF Substack. I'm doing now two lives a day, 12 o 'clock Eastern time and 7.45 PM Eastern time, two live reports you can only get on Legal AF Substack.

30:53Popok:And of course, since we last all together, we crossed over the 1 million threshold on Legal AF YouTube. That's a free membership. no outside investors, no paywall. This is the way to support the Legal AF community and make sure that our First Amendment rights are protected and we're not chased by the Trump administration off the air, so to speak. I'm glad you're all here. Help us with the next build to 2 million in the links below and you can join Legal AF Substack and Legal AF, the YouTube channel. And then of course, we've got our pro-democracy sponsors, some of which have been with us from the very, very beginning.

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35:56KFA:Welcome back. It is my true honor and pleasure to introduce my friend, my former colleague, and the potentially, hopefully, the future Attorney General of the state of Colorado, Michael Dougherty. Michael and I worked together at the Manhattan DA's office. We were baby DA's together. We learned and trained under the same people. And he has since gone on to do incredible things in the state of Colorado. He's currently the district attorney for the county of Boulder. And in that capacity, he's prosecuted some of the most high-profile cases in the country. He successfully prosecuted and tried the mass murderer from the King's Super supermarket in Boulder.

36:41KFA:He's now prosecuting the Pearl Street fire bomber who attacked the Jewish community members on June 1st of this year. And he headed up an investigation into the devastating Marshall Fire that destroyed communities and 1 ,100 homes. He runs, he does these 100-mile trail run races. I mean, the guy has more hours in the day than anyone I know, because in addition to being the district attorney of Boulder County, he is running for attorney general and he's standing up for democracy. And today there was so much in the news about Colorado. We had Donald Trump vetoing a bill that was going to bring clean water to southeast Colorado just to retaliate against Lauren Boebert's calling for the Epstein files to be released.

37:28KFA:We have him pardoning the trying to fake pardon because she was prosecuted in the state.

37:40KFA:The clerk who tried to who essentially smuggled someone in to make a copy of the voting machine and was not supposed to do that. And, you know, claiming that the election was stolen and he's trying to fake pardon her. So there's a lot going on in Colorado today, and we thought, who better to have on the show but Michael Dougherty, who worked with Jack Smith like I did, and he also is in the news today. So I thought, what a great person to have on and to introduce really to the Midas community, because Michael is someone to watch, someone to get to know, and someone who's going to really continue this fight against this authoritarian regime that we're in and fight in Colorado.

38:25KFA:So, Michael, welcome to Legal AF. It's such an honor to have you on the show. Well, thank you so much for having me on. And I appreciate that very kind introduction. And Karen, it is great to see you after all our years working together. And you left out one important part, which is you and my supervisor in the sex crimes unit. So I learned a lot from you and we handled some really difficult, meaningful cases together and helping victims and survivors through the criminal justice process after they've been sexually assaulted. So it's great to see you again and wonderful to be on with you and your team.

38:54Thank you.

38:56KFA:Yeah. So Popak, I know, I know, Michael, why don't you throw the first question to him?

39:02Popok:Oh, you're just here to do the introduction. No, no, I just figured you're chomping at the bit. No, no, I mean, this is great. I mean, and it fits well with sort of our ethos here to try to brief our audience about things that matter, not just at the federal level, but at the state level. I just had Rob Bonta, the California Attorney General on a few days ago, and the 23 Democratic Attorneys General, which you hope to join and replace a Democratic Attorney General whose term limited out but running for governor, it told us that we just hit a milestone. 50 5-0 suits have been filed by the Attorney's General, Democratic Attorney General, none of them, none Republican.

39:45Popok:I'd like to just say Attorney's General, but I can't. They're all Democrat. It's a milestone they never thought they would have to reach as part of the 400 or so cases against the Trump administration. But he said, we are fired up and ready to file the next 50 and the next 50 and the next 50 until this lawless Department of Justice and Trump administration is brought to heel. As you're running for office in Colorado, how much do you get into, like, what do you want the voters to know about your agenda? Whether you have an agenda, what you're going to do for the people of the state of Colorado and beyond vis-a-vis the Trump administration, along with Colorado's own interests?

40:29Well, having left the Manhattan District Attorney's Office, where Karen and I worked together, to come work at the Colorado Attorney General's Office, I know firsthand the impact and importance of that office on everyday lives for people throughout Colorado. But right now, everyone is aware of the role of the Attorney General. I think 15 years ago, if you ask people, well, what does the attorney general do? Often the answer was limited, if any. But right now, people recognize that the attorneys general across the country, A.G. Bonta, Phil Weiser in the state of Colorado, and others are the only thing standing between Donald Trump and the rule of law being violated every single day.

41:04So we see the constitution being violated and people being harmed, whether it be in Colorado, California, or elsewhere. It's the responsibility of the attorney general to stand and fight for the rule of law and to protect our democracy. And those lawsuits, the number of those lawsuits is actually unfortunate, unfortunate in that they've been absolutely necessary and required. And you need people with experience, the ability and the fight to stand up and protect our democracy right now.

41:30Karen?

41:32KFA:Michael, tell us what you think about this veto today and tell us about that issue. Well, what's particularly terrible about the veto is it was a bipartisan bill. And how often do you hear that word bipartisan in today's Congress? So the idea that it passed the House and the Senate with really strong majorities in both. And it's a bipartisan bill that's designed to bring water to a rural part of Colorado that's really suffering. As you pointed out at the start, Karen, Lauren Boebert spoke out against the president's veto. And I think that really highlights how surprising the veto was. And also the clear line that's being drawn between the decision to veto the bill and the president being angry and taking vengeful actions against the state of Colorado, in part, perhaps because the conviction of Tina Peters, who's a political crony of his, needs to manage her release.

42:19But the idea that we're talking about the president of the United States taking action against the state, she's unhappy with the state in some other respects, to me defies logic, but it absolutely requires a response.

42:31KFA:I think it's also because of the Epstein files, but, you know, because she spoke out against that. Talk about the Tina Peters case. Tell us about that. So Tina Peters, in a lot of ways, symbolizes some of the things we're seeing in this country right now. Tina Peters was a county clerk in Atlanta, Colorado, responsible for managing elections in Mesa County, which is a largely Republican jurisdiction. And that matters in a moment. But she was caught taking someone in and giving people access and engaging in then an attempt to influence public officials who were investigating the case and responsible for the overall election integrity in Mesa County.

43:07When that was discovered, the Republican District Attorney, Dan Rubenstein, did the absolute right thing. He realized it was a possible crime. He launched an investigation. He called the Attorney General, Phil Weiser, to ask Phil Weiser's office for assistance on this large, complex, major case. So you had a Republican district attorney and Democratic AG uniting and pursuing justice together. And as you know, in the criminal justice system, that's exactly how it should work. It shouldn't be defined by party affiliation or politics. To me, in my career as a prosecutor, it's always been about doing justice and doing the right thing without fear or favor or any concern about political affiliation or political impact.

43:46And that's what D.A. Rubenstein and A.G. Weiser did. They prosecuted the case, their two offices together. And they did that by presenting it to the grand jury in Mesa County. So again, largely Republican jurisdiction, choosing to indict the Republican County clerk. The case then went to trial, which was convicted by a jury, again, in a largely Republican jurisdiction, a state prosecution in state court, which is why the president actually does not have any legal authority to issue a pardon or take any action. Shortly after he took office for the second time, Donald Trump demanded her release and threatened Colorado with harsh measures, that was his quote, if she were not released immediately.

44:25I feel like that's something I would have read as a kid growing up in the paper about some third world country, but never about the United States, that a president is demanding the release of someone who's a political crony. To me, that's the height of public corruption. And the AG and the district attorney both have stood strong in saying she should not be released. the president then issued a pardon for her. And as Karen pointed out, the president does not have the legal authority to issue pardons in state cases. So that parting has had, in essence, no impact whatsoever, except once again, undermine the confidence and trust in the justice system and to cause front page news.

45:03But it's my expectation that she'll remain in state prison where she belongs for the consequences for her actions, because she's sentenced to nine years in state prison after being convicted at trial.

45:12Popok:I was bored today, so I read Donald Trump's high school roommates filing Mr. Tickerton. This is the lawyer, the lawyer of last resort for Donald Trump. When nobody will file for him, it is crazy crackpot theories. He hires our Tickerton volunteers. Literally, they were roommates in a military academy, and he practices law near me here in Miami. I'm not quite sure what kind of law. I've never seen it. I've been doing this for 35 years. I've never seen a brief that was filed at an appellate court, at least by somebody who's a practicing lawyer that cited in an appellate court, cited absolutely nothing to the record.

45:51Popok:No, just, just ticketing about the big lie and fraud in the election with no citations, ticketing on the civil war and casualties. And like he was watching that he fell asleep during the History Channel while he was dictating the brief. I don't know what the Civil War and that George Washington in the Whiskey Rebellion would have would have pardoned somebody like Tina Peters. I think George Washington would have hanged somebody like Tina Peters. Certainly a misinterpretation of the of the of the case and of Washington's powers. Again, not one case cited, let alone Colorado case law. But my favorite part, Michael, is where, talking about a rookie mistake, at the end, what he asked one of your appellate courts to do is two things, although I don't know how he gets past the first one.

46:40Popok:He says he wants the court to declare that they do not have jurisdiction or power over the appeal. And in the same breath says, and let my lady out of jail. Like, okay, which is it? They have power in jurisdiction or they're going to let your lady out of jail. I don't understand how they can make, I don't understand how those two things can exist together at the exact same time. Did you see this brief? I did. And I think it's clear to your point that they're throwing everything at the wall and hoping something sticks. And at the very least, I think they're hoping to keep the president's attention focused on this in an effort to leverage her out of state prison.

47:17And again, she was convicted by a jury and sentenced by a judge who recognized when the judge spoke in sentencing, he talked about the fact that she engaged in fraudulent conduct for which she showed no remorse whatsoever, and that state prison was the right and appropriate outcome for her and the right consequence for her actions. And I think that's so important that the rule of law be upheld right now. And the president issuing this pardon in a state case defies logic, violates the law, and should have no legal effect.

47:46Popok:Talk to the, as we round out here, this is your opportunity. You've had so many opportunities to speak to the people of Colorado about your being their chief law enforcement officer for the people, the people's attorney. That's one thing I came away with in interviewing your future colleagues at DAG, the Democratic Attorneys General, how many times they said and believe it's in the fiber of their being that they're going to be the people's attorney. Talk about what it means for you to be that in Colorado. And what is it, if you can have an elevator speech to the people in Colorado voting for you, what would you tell them about why you should be the next Attorney General for the great state of Colorado?

48:31Popok:By the way, for those that want to help Michael, we got a link below related to his website and fundraising. Go ahead. Well, thank you for that. And thank you for the question. I will say this is the greatest test of our democracy in my entire lifetime. This country has survived other tests in our history, but only because people stood up and fought for what was right. That's why I'm running for attorney general. I've been serving the public throughout my entire career as a prosecutor at the Manhattan District Attorney's Office and a leader there before coming to Colorado to work for the attorney general's office.

49:02So I know firsthand the impact and importance of that office, and I'm passionate about it. And having been an elected DA for the last eight years, I know how important it is to be able to lead a large law office through times of crisis. And indeed, we are living through a time of crisis in this country right now. And for us to weather the storm, we need the right people standing up and fighting with every ounce of our being and doing it with integrity to defend our democracy and the rule of law while also restoring trust in our democracy. And that's why I'm running for Attorney General. And as Karen pointed out in that introduction, I've had the responsibility and I view it as an honor of handling incredibly difficult and serious cases for my community from the marshal fire to the King Soopers mass murder, the firebombing upon Jewish community members in Boulder, and each time coming out on the other side of those crises with the right output, which is justice for the victims and for the community.

49:52And that's what I'm going to do as Attorney General, stand and fight for the rule of law, because the rule of law is the only thing we have right now at this test of our democracy.

50:02KFA:Michael, that's chilling. It's amazing. Thank Thank you so much for saying that. What can people do generally? What can the average person do generally in this fight? Well, a couple of things. If they're willing to support the campaign, that would be a tremendous help. I'm working hard to get the word out across Colorado so people are aware of my experience and the ability to hit the ground running on day one. This can't be a learn on the job experience. If you picture going to the airport and you have two pilots to choose from and one's been flying in storms for 30 years and the other's never flown before, you want to get on the plane with someone who's been doing it for 30 years.

50:37And that's what I provide with my experience and the ability to fight for the rule of law and to stand up and fight for justice. So supporting the campaign, volunteering with the campaign, that'd be terrific. But I would also highlight right now we have our nonprofits in our communities throughout the United States under attack. So I was at a nonprofit organization earlier today. They've had their funding cut by the Trump administration. So also supporting our nonprofits do volunteer work and contributions as well. So each of us has a ripple effect on those around us. Each of us has an impact on the community.

51:09And right now, for me, it means running for attorney general. But for each one of us, it may feel overwhelming at times what's coming at us every day in the news and every day from the Trump administration. But it's more important than ever that we stand up and have positive impact and fight for what's right.

51:26Popok:Michael Dougherty running for what is going to be the open seat to be the next Colorado Attorney General on the Democratic side. I was only kidding when I said what would be your elevator pitch. I should have said your stairwell pitch. Now that I realize where you're... Look at this leadership and can-do attitude of this candidate that came on Legal AF from a stairwell. Reminds me of Karen Freeman. I can't follow your friend. We appreciate you. We'll do everything we can in our power, and I'm sure our audience will too, to help get you elected and help contribute to the defense of our democracy and to be a supporter of all things related to the people of the state of Colorado.

52:10Popok:Thank you for joining us. Karen, thank you so much for bringing him on with us today.

52:13KFA:Michael, come back again anytime. I will. We'd love to have you. Thank you for having me on. Next time, I won't be in a stairwell, but I will always have the honor. Anytime I'm on, it will be an honor to talk with you both. I really appreciate what you're doing and you calling attention to these issues. And I was running between meetings, but being able to join you today is an opportunity I did not want to pass up. So thank you so much.

52:32Popok:Send a photo of your rig and how you have such a perfect, a perfect propped up laptop. I want to know. Anyway, thank you for doing it.

52:41KFA:It's probably on top of like an upside down trash can, which I have done many times.

52:46Popok:That's impressive. Thank you all. All right. We'll see you. We'll see you the next time. All right, Karen, that was great. Thank you for bringing on. Now I see why, you know, you're a big supporter of his and now by extension, of course, we are too. Let's get him elected to replace Phil Weiser, who's now running for governor in the great state of Colorado. Let's round out. We're in the homestretch here. Let's talk about the Epstein files. Another another dump. Todd Blanch in the Department of Justice, which by that I mean, wink, wink. Donald Trump writing the social media post for the Department of Justice thought nobody would notice on New Year's Eve Eve.

53:23Popok:What's another five million five million documents, which really means 20 million. I mean, with the Trump administration, you just have to multiply everything by four.

53:34KFA:And it's also not five. It's not five million pages, right? Each document has multiple pages. So we're talking a billion, you know, we're talking many, many multiples of that of just pages of stuff to go through.

53:45Popok:So eight days ago. Our colleague, Ben Micellis, going through the 100 ,000 pages we did get, which represents like 5 % or less of the Epstein disclosure that was supposed to be done by the 19th of December by Congressional Act signed by Donald Trump. He says, well, how could they only have 70 ,000 or 700 ,000 pages left when I have an email here from the U.S. Attorney's Office in New York about the Maxwell prosecution between an assistant U.S. attorney and some contractor that says 1.2 million pages or documents are in that. What about that file? 12 hours later, we have the social media post. Department of Justice says, we just discovered in the Southern District of New York.

54:37Popok:You just discovered? You mean Midas Touch just discovered? The 1.2 million files. We're going to be delayed, everybody. And we're like, okay. And as Ben said with me recently, it's not going to be a million. It's going to be multiple hard drives that they haven't located. How can you ever trust the word that they say? And right on time, it gets leaked and then a social media post that now they think it's 5.2 million and they want the public to feel sorry for them because they got to work around the clock during the holidays, pulling in 400 more lawyers. That's the original post. That's from nine days ago.

55:14Popok:They got 400 more lawyers. They got to pull in from Florida, New York and national security like we should feel sorry for them. And it's all hands on deck, Todd Blanche says, as if he's going to be there and Pam Bondi is going to be there. You know, all right. What? OK, so. The Democrats are their hair is on fire again. You got Ro Khanna, who said, are you effing kidding me? This is my paraphrase. You got five percent or less of the documents who have been produced on time. The Senate Democrats, you know, led by Sheldon Whitehouse and Senator Blumenthal, they've come out with, we want the inspector general for the Department of Justice and FBI.

55:55Popok:Well, that's, yeah, that's Rob Garcia's to get on top of this and look at the production, the process, and make sure it's transparent. And why are things just being found now? Who's in charge over here? Now, I will say one thing. The Department of Justice is not the right agency, but they are the ones to be producing documents like this. They're not built for this. This is not their thing. Sure, in a case, they'll have to produce something. But to go through tens of millions of documents around the clock, and I got one last comment. I'll turn it over to you. Just to show you, this is all a charade to slow this down.

56:37Popok:Where were the complaints by the Department of Justice, FBI or Donald Trump when the bill that was passed, the Epstein Transparency Act, had a 30 day timer in it? I didn't hear one complaint from 30 days. Are you kidding me? Well, that's outrageous. No, because they'd already spent March and April and May round the clock with FBI agents looking through the documents, trying to find Donald Trump documents. So they felt relatively confident they could make it in 30 days until they figured out, it's not like we only have the tip of the iceberg. They missed the iceberg. But on purpose, it's because they're not motivated or qualified to be searching for these documents.

57:17Popok:They don't really want to do it. They're not built for it. They lost 5 ,000 people from their organization. Can you imagine an organization, Karen, that loses 5 ,000 people that aren't replaced in 11 months and then has to do this? What's your takeaway about this as our final segment?

57:36KFA:I mean, first of all, it goes to show when people like Pam Bondi have said that she's reviewed the files. It makes you wonder what files did she review in the Epstein files since she didn't even know half of them existed, right? So they're just discovering all these files that existed in the investigation. And look, the Department of Justice is used to sweeping huge, complex cases that have terabytes, multiple terabytes worth of discovery that they have to turn over to the defense. They know how to do this. They can do this. But frankly, they've lost so many of the people who are the excellent prosecutors.

58:16KFA:There's Maureen Comey, for one, who was the lead prosecutor on the Ghislaine Maxwell case, who if you hadn't fired her because her last name's Comey, there's certainly no substantive reason to fire her. She was, by all accounts, is an excellent, excellent prosecutor with a great reputation, who also had a relationship with the Epstein victims and who could be sensitive to them and what their needs are and what their desires are. But they fire her for no good reason. And so one of the people who had the most institutional knowledge is gone. And there's a lot of people who either aren't familiar with it or who aren't going to touch it with a 20-foot pole or who are just people who are new hires by Donald Trump.

59:01KFA:I mean, they're going to enlist 400 more prosecutors. That's fine. And they'll do a good job at going through stuff, I'm sure. I still have faith in prosecutors at the Department of Justice, especially the line prosecutors, but they don't know anything about the case substantively. They don't know what means what and what's important to what because they're just going to be looking for God only knows what. And so I really do think that it's such a shame. You're going to see a lot of mistakes made. And frankly, more than anything, I really, really hope if any mistakes are made, they aren't ones that negatively affect the Epstein victims who have really, I think I'm worried about, and I'm worried about potentially the retribution that goes on in this administration against people who have spoken out against anyone close to Trump or anyone in a position of power that's close to Trump.

59:54KFA:I just really hope that their perspectives are handled carefully and gingerly and really that they do it well. Because I just don't know who's doing that in the Trump administration. So hopefully the people who they bring on in the Department of Justice to do this will be able to do that. But like you said, they're going to find more documents. They're going to find more things because nobody knows what's going on here. And again, I just don't understand how they're finding things now when we've been reassured that they've gone through the files, they've gone through the documents, et cetera. So, you know, this is to be determined, but I just think it's the very tip of the iceberg.

1:00:41KFA:And I look forward to seeing what comes next, because finally, maybe, maybe we'll get some transparency and not just a bunch of pages that are mostly blacked out.

1:00:52Popok:Yeah, I agree with you. I mean, the people that are looking at are They're not people that are, I mean, they're qualified as in the Department of Justice, apparently. They're national security there. They're in the captured Southern District of Florida office run by Jason Reading Quinones. They're in Jay Clayton's office in the Southern District of New York. They're offering them bounties of extra vacation time for putting in three to four hours a day to look at a thousand pages or a thousand documents. I mean, yeah, I've handled large, I don't know about, yeah, maybe millions, yeah, yeah, millions and millions of documents.

1:01:28Popok:There's different ways. There's AI, there's databases, there's platforms, there's, you bring in, you can't do it here, but you bring in, you know, temporary lawyers and paralegals, you know, and that type of thing. But it just shows a complete lack of good faith on the part of the Department of Justice because they're not moving heaven and earth to make it happen. They're not, nobody's properly managing this with any leadership abilities because all those people have left the government. And so it's left with, you know, like if I was doing a large production when I was a younger lawyer, which is what you do when you're a younger lawyer in big firms, you know, you'd sit down with a piece of paper and you'd be like, okay, where are all the potential locations for documents?

1:02:15Popok:Where would they be? And this is back when they were documents, not really even electronic. You can say, oh, in this office, in this office, about this matter, about this matter, and this hard drive, and that blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. We all knew sitting here, there was a case against Ghislaine Maxwell. It had a football-filled worth of documents. Where are they? You know, it took us to point that out, that there was a case that was being prepared by Maureen Comey, as you pointed out, for Epstein before he unalived himself or whatever the phrase is. Where are they? There was a prosecution and an investigation in the Southern District of Florida.

1:02:53Popok:Where are they? There are IRS documents. There are postal service, postal inspector documents. There are subpoena response documents. There are FBI search warrant and execution of search warrant documents. I mean, you have like a spreadsheet and you check who's doing this there. I mean, it's a complete brain dead organization. It's a dangerous combination. Lawless, immoral, unethical, and brain dead. That is a terrible law firm, by the way. The law firm of unethical, immoral, brain dead, you know, and incompetent. And that's what we're watching. But I feel for the survivors. Lisa Phillips has joined to do regular work on Legal AF.

1:03:40Popok:She's one of the leaders of the Epstein survivor movement. And, you know, there's another thing that Trump is worried about. Many states, including California, tomorrow opened their window for filing civil lawsuits, civil lawsuits against predators and people who abused these women, now girls, now women, and the rest. California's got a two-year window opening tomorrow. And I've heard on good authority that we're going to be shocked with some of the filings that may be coming out of the Epstein matter. Is Donald Trump continuing to cover up, as he told Marjorie Taylor Greene, for his quote-unquote friends so that they don't get sued?

1:04:25Popok:And what I said in a recent hot take is states like California should be extending their window to match every day that the Epstein files are delayed beyond December 19th as ordered by the court. They want to play a game. They want to wait a month, extend the deadline to file the lawsuit a month and so on. Six months, six months and match them. Because I'm sure that's on his mind about protecting his people from getting sued, protecting the rich and powerful predators again by Donald Trump. So anyway, you and I and Midas and Legal AF will continue to follow those things. Everybody in our community, thank you for making 2025, despite all of it, because of all of it, such a successful result for Legal AF and its ecosystem.

1:05:14Popok:The millions of people that have come here, Legal AF YouTube channel is going to hit 500 million views of its work. The podcast, Legal AF, the podcast, regularly in the top 50, 75, 25 of various charts that matter. my new intersection podcast also bouncing around between 20 and 50 on YouTube. The sub stack that we've built in the last year with 125 ,000 people, over a thousand people becoming paid members off of my sale, my promo sale in the last couple of days. This is all a testament and just the volume of content, you know, Ben's volume of content over on Midas and I join them when I can. Legal AF, 12 videos a day.

1:05:58Popok:You know, we're talking about 17, 18, 20 hours of content per day just to keep up with the Trump administration and bring them to heel. And that is all because of our audience. And I just, if I give everybody a hug, I would. And I'll leave it all this way, then I'll turn it over to you for the last word. We will overcome the rogue, depraved Trump administration together. There's no greater title that you can hold in America than citizen and join together the way that we are and banded together the way that we are through might as such and legal AF. We can do great things. It starts at the midterms.

1:06:35Popok:435 seats up for grabs in Congress, in the House. 35 Senate seats up for grabs in the Senate. Right. The hard work has already begun and is continuing here. Stay here together. Truth to each other first. Truth to power. hit the rallies, go to the swearing-ins, do the voter registration, and then vote. And if you can give us back the House and the Senate, we'll have the investigations, we'll have the oversight, we'll have the checks and balances, we'll have the impeachments, and we'll have the convictions. And if you can give me what I've now claimed is the sweetest words in the English language right now is a new Department of Justice or a future Department of justice that we can now see at the end of the tunnel, right?

1:07:23Popok:The light at the end of the tunnel. You give me that, you give us that, and I will give you the justice that you've demanded. Karen, last word for today.

1:07:32KFA:Yeah, look, as we close out 2025, it's hard to not look back at this year and have a lot of feelings about it, given that Donald Trump became president this year. And it was a very, very challenging and tough year in that regard. But, you know, having, watching Jack Smith's testimony, hearing from people like Michael Dougherty, who are still people interested in public service and who are good ethical, moral people, and being part of the Midas Touch network and community and the community that has been built over these last few years. Frankly, I have so much hope and I have so much hope going forward and it's real hope.

1:08:15KFA:And I have so much faith in people and in humanity. And just because we see right now a lot of loud voices that are the worst of humanity, and that's what we're seeing, and those loud voices also have a lot of power, we have more power and we're going to take it back and we're going to bring this country back to the beauty and wonder that it is. And it's going to start now. It's already starting. And 2026 is going to be the best year ever. I'm saying it out loud because we're throwing it out there and putting it out into the ecosystem and into the ether. We're going to will it to happen and happy new year to everybody and Popok and everybody in the legal AF and Salty, who's our amazing producer who's here with us every single week who this couldn't happen without you.

1:09:06KFA:You're my family. I love you. I love you all. And I just wish everyone the most wonderful, happy new year.

1:09:14Popok:Ring it in everybody. Shout out to the Midas Mighty and the Legal AFers.

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