Legal AF Full Episode - 7/19/2025

18:55Ben Meiselas:that. I want to remind everybody that Michael Popak has a law firm. A lot of our legal AF-ers had been saying to Popak, you got to start your own firm. Popak started his own firm, and we've been getting a huge amount of calls from our audience and our listeners. So if you have been in an accident, if you're the victim of an accident, whether that's a a bad car accident, a bad trucking accident, a medical malpractice. If you know somebody who's been in a bad accident or been involved in a catastrophic injury or a wrongful death or been a victim of sexual assault, maybe at the workplace or somewhere else or sexual harassment or any case like that, call up Popak.

19:43Ben Meiselas:His firm will take the call, free consultations. when they represent you, it's on a contingency, meaning they only recover if you recover. Popak, where can they reach out to you?

19:52Michael Popok:Yeah, we made it very, very simple. Thanks, Ben, for that intro. It is a 1-800 number if you want to talk to somebody directly, 1-877-POPAK, that's P-O-P-O-K-A-F, made it easy for you and for me, and website. If you want to go there and start the process through a free case evaluation contact form and read more about the firm and what we do, you can go to www.thehopockfirm.com.

20:24Ben Meiselas:Everybody, make sure you subscribe to the Legal AF YouTube channel on their way to 1 million subscribers and make sure you subscribe to the Legal AF Substack. And of course, make sure you're subscribed here on the Midas Touch Network. All right. We will be right back after a quick break from our pro-democracy sponsors.

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24:04Ben Meiselas:Welcome back to legal AF. Thank you to our sponsors. They make this show possible without outside investors. That's how legal AF and the Midas Touch Network grows. So thank you to all of them. Oh, and lots of people I saw were calling the Popak firm. So also in the description below. If you want to, you can click the website in the description below. All right, Popak, let's get into it. You describe this as the stupidest lawsuit ever from a legal perspective. It's frivolous. It opens up Donald Trump to discovery. Trump's like, I'm going to take Rupert's deposition. You probably aren't. Rupert will get dismissed right away in this case.

24:40Ben Meiselas:There's really no basis to sue Rupert Murdoch at all for this as an apex person in the organization. So good luck with that lawsuit, number one. Number two, they're going to take your deposition. and Michael Cohen, I think really showed the path of how you deal with the Donald Trump lawsuit. The way you deal with it is you right away notice his deposition, call him out. It doesn't matter how many documents you need. Just call his deposition, put him under oath, and then Trump folds. He breaks right away and runs away from his deposition. Now, in other cases where he's tried to get out of his deposition, where he's had to take the deposition, one of them in New York, He invoked his Fifth Amendment rights against self-incrimination, you know, in cases.

25:26Ben Meiselas:And let me show you right here, though, the deposition in the E. Gene Carroll case, which which he sat for that deposition. And he finally was compelled and had to speak. Here's what here's what went down. So he was describing why it was that he wouldn't have sexually assaulted E. Gene Carroll. and he said, she's not my type, not my type. And then he goes to the lawyer who's asking him the questions, Roberta Kaplan, and he goes, you're not my type either. I wouldn't sexually assault you because you're not my type. Here's what he says. Here, let's play. When you said in that video that Ms. Leeds would not be your first choice, you were referring to her physical looks, correct?

26:12Michael Popok:Just the overall. I look at her. I see her. I hear what she says, whatever. However, you wouldn't be a choice of mine either, to be honest with you. I hope you're not insulted. I would not, under any circumstances, have any interest in you. I'm honest when I say it. She, I would not have any interest in.

26:32Ben Meiselas:The question was sexually. He's saying I wouldn't have sexually. He melds interest.

26:38Michael Popok:Yeah. I won't rape you, Robbie.

26:41Ben Meiselas:Because you're not my type to the lawyer. And then earlier he goes regarding the Access Hollywood tapes that we played. And he's like, well, it's true. You know, that's what men say. You know, historically, for millions of years, that's just the way it is. Fortunately or unfortunately, rich men grab women by their genitals without their consent. And fortunately or unfortunately, here's what he said at that deposition.

27:07Michael Popok:And you say, and again, this has become very famous in this video. I just start kissing them it's like a magnet just kiss I don't even wait and when you're a star they let you do it you can do anything grab them by the pussy you can do anything that's what you said correct? Well historically that's true with stars It's true with stars that they can grab women by the pussy? Well that's what if you look over the last million years I guess that's been largely true not always but largely true unfortunately or fortunately you consider yourself to be a star i think you can say that yeah and

27:49Ben Meiselas:so you see michael popock uh he doesn't do well in depositions doesn't do well in this one will be about in this case against murdoch murdoch will have the best lawyers out there um by the way roberta kaplan's you know maybe he hires roberta kaplan but he'll have the best lawyers out there like a Roberta Kaplan. And they're going to go into all the connections with Epstein. I mean, could you imagine what that deposition will look like? Trump can't get out of that deposition. He's sued.

28:20Michael Popok:You're, you're okay. Let's go. And I'll connect it right to the lawsuit filed in Miami. In the Roberta, he is so disgusting that there is reporting, including from Robbie Kaplan herself, that at the end of that, I don't know if it was that day of the deposition or another day of the deposition. When he stood up, he called through a secret abbreviation that everybody knows. He called Robbie Kaplan, the C word, on the way out. He said to her on the way out, I'll see you next Tuesday, literally. And she was confused. And she reports that she asked her staff, we don't have anything on Tuesday. What is he talking about?

29:00Michael Popok:And they had to tell her, he just called you the C word. That's how Donald Trump goes into any relationship with a woman on the other side. We all know by now his misogyny, his abuse of women. It's legion. It's not legendary. It's notorious. And you didn't show the clip, although we have shown it before on Midas Touch, where he stepped in. He was easily a trap was easily laid for him in the deposition, which he stepped right into about that same issue, about whether somebody was his type or not his type. he then screwed up because he was shown a photo by Robbie Kaplan of a picture of himself with E.

29:49Michael Popok:Jean Carroll, his first wife, Ivana, and her husband, John Johnson, a reporter in New York. And he said, well, yeah, there's me with Marla Maples. And she said, I mean, Robbie was not ready for that. She said, I'm sorry, what are you talking about? The person you're pointing to, You think that's Marla Maples? Obviously somebody that he did found to be his type. And he said, yeah, that's me and Marla Maples. And then Alina Hava had to bail him out and say, that's E. Jean Carroll. That's Carroll, you know, because she had to help out daddy. And he said, oh, wait, that's Carroll. So and that got played.

30:26Michael Popok:And that was one of the major things that led to his losing an$83 million defamation case. The reason we're going on about this is Donald Trump is terrible in deposition. and the lawsuit that he filed, not only does it republish the very thing that apparently he thinks is defamatory in excruciating detail within the body of the complaint, which he didn't have to do. I mean, he goes over every detail that the black Sharpie marker being used on the woman's genitalia for pubic hair and the obscene photo and the comet, I mean, over and over again. Then he lists all the social media places that republished it.

31:11Michael Popok:I was hoping Midas would be in there. I'd look closely. He skipped Midas on purpose, I'm sure, because I'm sure we're giving him, we're giving that story the biggest runway. But that gets filed. He files in Miami a short 18-page, relatively short complaint led by Alexander Brito, Coral Gables lawyer near my office, who already sued, I guess you'd say successfully, the Paramount and CBS throwing the Tiffany network into the gutter along with 60 Minutes, which also ultimately led to Stephen Colbert losing a 30-year career on television because he criticized publicly his parent company for settling with Donald Trump over a 60 minutes interview with Kamala Harris and the same Brito brought the case against ABC News and Stephanopoulos because Stephanopoulos in an interview with Nancy Mace about E.

32:05Michael Popok:Jean Carroll's case that we just talked about said that he was a judge to be a rapist instead of a sexual abuser and Donald Trump was going to sue for defamation for the difference in a jury's mind between rape and sexual abuse which the judge in that case already said had been resolved that he was technically a rapist as a judge by the jury. But you had these settlements by these parent companies. Again, this is why you and I so focus our careers on independent commentary and journalism without corporate parenting and look to our supporters, our audience, for the support that we need. So you've got that going on.

32:44Michael Popok:The suit gets filed. I look carefully thinking, well, they're going to shoot for Cannon, right? File the case in the same division of the federal district, Southern District of Florida that I practice in, which runs from Fort Pierce down to Key West, file it in West Palm Beach over the bridge from Mar-a-Lago. Makes sense. You got a 50 % chance of getting Cannon again. Try it. Why not? Cannon so helped him out in the Mar-a-Lago espionage obstruction of justice case. I mean, who helped him out more than her? Declaring for the first time in 200 years that a special counsel can't be appointed without Senate confirmation by an attorney general.

33:21Michael Popok:By the way, the Trump administration just did exactly that in trying to, they're going to do it again in New Jersey, trying to do an end run around the interim attorneys, the interim U.S. attorney problem that they have. This is an administration that's six months in the making. They haven't gotten one federal judge through. They haven't gotten one U.S. attorney confirmed. Well, that's for another day and another hot take, another podcast. So I'm thinking canon, right? Take the shot. Maybe you get Rosenberg, maybe you get Middlebrooks, but you got a pretty good shot of getting Cannon. No, they clicked the box for Miami.

33:55Michael Popok:Now, they filed some other cases in Miami that didn't go well for them. So it's not like, yeah, we'll do well in Miami. Michael Cohen case in front of Judge Gale, terrible, you know, for them, not for Michael. Michael, great, terrible for them. Folded right when the deposition was about to be taken and other things. So no real great track record in Miami. So why Miami? So I have a working theory that I will develop and keep an eye on that they want to keep Cannon on the bench and they don't want the awkwardness of having a case in front of her in case Pamela, Pamela Joe Bondi gets finally fed through the wood chipper completely by Laura Loomer and others and has to be removed as attorney general.

34:36Michael Popok:because there was very good reporting at the time that was never really denied by the Trump administration when he was president-elect that there was a chart that had Aileen Cannon as the attorney general, Todd Blanche as the number two, not Pam Bondi. And now that Pam Bondi may be on the way out over the Epstein scandal, which it looks very likely, they may not want it. To me, I don't think they wanted the awkwardness of having a case in front of her and then having her slide over to be made attorney general and have to get Senate confirmed. That's a theory. I'll keep an eye on it. The case that just got filed, I agree with you.

35:19Michael Popok:I don't understand it. First of all, I don't know about motion to dismiss, certainly summary judgment. Everybody likely gets out of this. Truth is a defense. Donald Trump has to carry his burden of showing actual malice, a standard under the Supreme Court precedent, which is still standing, of Times v. Sullivan, which says that the paper has to run the article either knowing it's false, no way, or that they recklessly disregarded its truth or falsity. They have an insider, not the name, but the concept is in the article, inside the Department of Justice who prosecuted Maxwell and gave them or showed them or confirmed for them all of that, the scrapbook with the page devoted to Donald Trump's entry.

36:05Michael Popok:So they have that. There's also the fair reporting defense, which papers get to use. And Donald Trump knows well because he tried to use the fair reporting privilege against E. Gene Carroll to continue this loop here on this segment because he tried to say when he was denying E. Gene Carroll's charge of rape that he was just doing fair reporting and should be given that defense like a media outlet. That got rejected, but he understands fair reporting. But here, you've got a document, whether it came out of the grand jury evidence toolbox or it came out of the cutting room floor of other evidence and materials, Brady or other materials collected by the government that was or was not used against Jelaine Maxwell.

36:46Michael Popok:It's something that the paper, having gotten a copy of it, needs to be able to report on it. That's the principles of free speech and First Amendment and freedom of the press. What were they supposed, what's in Donald Trump's world? They're supposed to ignore this? Once they get it, they just have to confirm that it's authentic, that it's not a hoax, which they did, and that it's not fabricated. I mean, there have been stories in history. You and I would be remiss if we didn't talk about it. There have been papers that weren't really papers and diaries like Hitler's diary that wasn't really Hitler's diary and papers ran with those stories.

37:22Michael Popok:I get it, but not this story and not the Wall Street Journal and not Rupert Murdoch. This was done intentionally in order to draw out Donald Trump and see what his next move would be. And they figured out they can weather the storm with their, they assume they can weather the storm with their Fox News platform. But this is Murdoch in his final days, because the guy's almost 100 years old, and Lachlan Murdoch saying, we're going to take on Donald Trump and we don't care of the repercussions. The lawsuit has not yet, at least on our recording, our live, has not been yet assigned. But there's very few judges there that are going to be favorable for Donald Trump.

38:00Michael Popok:And he could pull somebody like Gales or one of the other judges like Williams who have had cases involving the Trump administration that have not gone the Trump administration's way already. The judge is going to be important here. I'll report on that once it comes out. Process and procedure. The suit's been filed. If it's been served, there's 20 days, maybe 30 days in this case, depending about how it was served for the Wall Street Journal and the rest to file their response to the case. It could be an early motion to dismiss or it could be exactly what you propose, Ben, which is once you're in the 30-day mark, they can set the deposition whenever they want.

38:41Michael Popok:And you and I, in our cases, have set early depositions, catching the other side off guard with like, well, don't you want to get my documents? No, I don't need your documents. You already denied the existence of this thing. Sit in the box, swear, you know, get sworn in and let's go. And I've done that as a strategy. I'm sure that's something they'll do there to call Donald Trump's bluff. Donald Trump doesn't think he's going to win this case. He thinks either, he didn't have to list the$80 billion number either in a pleading. All you have to say it's over the jurisdictional limit amount requirement, which it was for diversity jurisdiction, which is two different residents of two different states to get into federal court.

39:20Michael Popok:But he did for a publicity standpoint. He doesn't care about this case. He doesn't think he's going to win this case. He just needs a talking point to distract from what you've outlined and you and I have outlined on Legal AF and Midas Touch, which was a terrible, terrible Epstein week for Donald Trump. FBI caught scrubbing and searching for Donald Trump's names in all of the files. His former chief of staff going on Al Jazeera to say that he's sure that there's information about Donald Trump in the Epstein files. all of MAGA world and leadership coming out against Donald Trump to release the files.

39:55Michael Popok:And then Donald Trump says, oh, release the files. But he doesn't really ask for the files to be released. It's a subset. We don't give shit about the D. I care about the grand jury transcripts. But once they're completely sanitized, I don't care about that. I want the evidence box. I want the search warrant results from the search warrant in the home in Florida and in the Upper East Side townhouse. I mean, Michael Wolfe, Michael Wolfe, the journalist who's been on Legal AF, been on Midas Touch, says, I interviewed for hours Jeffrey Epstein in 2014 for a book. He showed me the safe. I saw the photos.

40:33Michael Popok:I saw the photos. This is Michael Wolfe's testimony. I saw the photos of Donald Trump with a young girl on his lap with a stain on Donald Trump's pants. That's Michael Wolff's journalism, right? That's his story. That's what he has said. You never hear a denial from Trump world on that. And so what happened to the safe? What happened to the materials in there? This is a pedophile. I'm sure he kept artifacts of his depraved conduct somewhere in there. That's what we want to see. Is there a client list? I don't know, but let's look through all of his papers, his documents, and his hard drive. Where is that?

41:09Michael Popok:It's not the grand jury that we want. That's a distractor again for Donald Trump, hoping that the media will run after that. But the lawsuit is the dumbest thing at this moment. It's literally pouring. It's like pouring kerosene onto a barbecue as it blows up in your face.

41:27Ben Meiselas:He arms, though, his MAGA zombies with their talking point. He filed the lawsuit, $10 billion. He doesn't doodle. He doesn't use this language. Why would the information not already be out there if Donald Trump was on it? It is out there. That's what I'm trying to tell you. 10 % of the file has been released. Donald Trump's name appears more than almost anybody else's other than Epstein and Ghislaine. I mean, Donald Trump is on the flight logs. He's on the call logs. He's showed you Virginia Giuffre talking about when she was an underage girl. She was recruited for the sex trafficking ring at Mar-a-Lago.

42:12Ben Meiselas:That's an undisputed fact. Trump saying Epstein's a great guy. All of these stories about Trump partying with Epstein, having what I read for you, it's out, like it's actually out there. And I think some of my frustration being a journalist was I'm saying, hello, like, do you see what this guy's saying? You know, and how are you okay with that? Like his language. And by the way, he's been found liable by a jury for sexual assault. He's been found liable in a civil case. What's his defamation? That a letter hurts his reputation more than a finding by a jury that he sexually assaulted E. Jean Carroll and that he's on tape bragging about it.

42:57Ben Meiselas:I've shown clips before of Donald Trump at young Republican events recently, 2024, saying that he loved how he called sexually assaulting women on the Access Hollywood tape, locker room talk. He was speaking to high school kids, locker room talk to kids. I mean, he's on videotaped saying that. I showed him in a high school in Iowa. I'm not going to play the clip because people get grossed out when I play it. When during a speech, it's like, Melania knows that I don't like golden showers. They say that I like to get peed on by hookers. Melania knows I would never do that. You're in a high school.

43:43Ben Meiselas:Why are you bringing that up? And why as a society are we all just not like this is outrageous you know there's a standard for intentional infliction of emotional distress and the standard is like would that just make you go outrageous is that beyond the bounds of a civilized society and truly donald trump's conduct always in my view met the standards of intentional infliction of emotional distress of the people you know because but it was always like well donald trump gave a speech in iowa today and the speech focused on bringing down the price of mortgages and i'm like no he he talked about getting peed on by hooker did you hear what he just said what what are you talking about why are you normalizing this is your brain mush and that's always been like and i think why midas touch has grown the way it has is that the rest of the human beings out there by and large, other than this MAGA mush crew are like, yeah, thank you.

44:45Ben Meiselas:We heard him say it. And I'm like, yeah, he's saying it. And now, and I think it's because we're leading the media now and leading cable news. It's like, at least for now, it's like people are like, okay, I get it. Like this is an important issue to focus on because he doesn't have the, to me, it deals with everything else. All of his other lies, whether it's about he's going to bring peace to Ukraine in 24 hours, whether he's going to make things more affordable. He now claims inflation is gone and he's fixed everything. He claims we're living in a golden age. He claims he's brought in$17 trillion and everything's amazing.

45:25Ben Meiselas:And it's like, guys, gals, this is a felon. This is a bad guy. This is a sexual abuser in a civil case. This is a bankrupt. This is a loser. This is a guy who hung out with Jeffrey Epstein and John Casablanca. This is who this guy is.

45:46Michael Popok:Listen, this information that you're giving, which is so important, is aimed at the independents, the moderates, and the Democrats, because the Republicans, the MAGA Republicans, and even the country club Republicans don't care. The polling has gone up for Donald Trump since the revelations about Epstein. 92 % of Republicans now think Donald Trump is doing a great job, up from 88%. So they are sticking with him. And we have to stick it to them by using everything in our power on this network and on Legal AF to draw attention to it the way that you have, the way the brothers have, the way all contributors have.

46:26Michael Popok:Because we're fighting for the heart and soul and the hearts and minds of not the Magagugu and the Republicans that believe we're attacking their fearless leader. And therefore, they're going to stand with them. And the more we attack in some perverse upside down world, the more they're going to support him. They are a lost cause. We will never penetrate, no matter how much content and how many views we get, we're never going to penetrate that self-created bubble that they have placed themselves in of self-preservation, apparently, to believe the mythology of Donald Trump. But fortunately, we don't have to convert everybody in this country.

47:11Michael Popok:We just have to tell the truth, which we do every hour, every day, to the people that can make the difference in the vote count come the midterms and the 2028 election and beyond to reclaim this country. It's not about making America great again. It's about reclaiming the democracy that is the promise of our constitution and ultimately our Bill of Rights. And so when we talk about it, I want people to think that we're creating an echo chamber, that we're immune, that we do live in a little bit of an alternate universe, but we have a lot of people here we're trying to continue to bring in. I think the reason, as a flip side to that number I just gave, that more than 70 % of independents have headed for the exits on this administration six months in is because of the focus and the reporting and the commentary I might as touch on on Legal AF.

48:05Michael Popok:That is for sure. So we have to keep up that heavy revelation of our reporting to go for there. But I know the comments and come up like, they'll never listen. Right. Let them vote. But we need to outnumber them at the midterms and beyond.

48:25Ben Meiselas:I want to talk about, I have a perspective on that as well. That's similar, but slightly, I don't want to say different, but how I view it. But I will talk about that when we get back. I want to remind everybody to check out the Legal AF YouTube channel. Let's get that channel a million subscribers. No reason. It shouldn't have a million right now. Just go and hit subscribe there. Secondly, subscribe to the Legal AF Substack. And then as well, the Popok firm is crushing it. So many Legal AFers, listeners, subscribers with their own legal cases have given a call. We've signed up so many clients.

49:06Ben Meiselas:You've signed up so many clients. But the types of cases, catastrophic injury, meaning if you're the victim of a bad car accident where you had to have surgeries, a trucking accident where like surgeries were required. If you know people who were killed in an accident, unfortunately, wrongful death cases, sexual harassment and sexual assault cases, whether it's at the workplace or elsewhere, medical malpractice cases, consultations free. The cases are handled on a contingency, meaning you're not paying hourly for lawyers. They only recover if you recover. Popak, where can they reach up?

49:41Michael Popok:Thanks, Ben. Easy. 1-877-POPOKAF, P-O-P-O-K-A-F. And we have people standing by to talk about your case and evaluate it and all that good stuff. And then if you'd rather just go onto a website, I appreciate that, go to www.thepopokfirm.com. We've got an amazing group of national trial lawyers in every jurisdiction that are expert in what they do, that work with me. In fact, I'm getting together with them in a conference in August in Chicago. But this has been such an honor and a blessing for me to be able to provide this kind of legal service off the back of everything that you and I do on Legal AF.

50:28Ben Meiselas:When we come back, I want to talk about Jim Jordan had his deposition taken in the Ohio State University case involving a doctor on the wrestling team who was sexually assaulting the athletes and Jim Jordan covered up for that doctor. We're going to talk about that. I'm going to show everybody what we know about that. I've actually interviewed Michael DeSabato, one of the victims. I'll be airing that interview tomorrow he's giving me exclusive email with Jim Jordan that nobody's seen that'll drop tomorrow we'll talk about that we'll talk about a Supreme Court ruling when we get back as well let's take our last break

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54:50Ben Meiselas:Welcome back to Legal AF. Thank you to all our pro-democracy sponsors. Support them. In the description below, you'll see the discount codes. We don't have outside investors here. They go a long way to help build this independent media network. All right, Popak, you know, Donald Trump surrounds himself with enablers and people who cover up for him, cover up for everything. So, you know, Donald Trump gives his marching orders. Mag and Mike Johnson and Jim Jordan and the Republican just go, he couldn't have done it. It's a hoax, hoax. You know, the Epstein hoax to this and to this and to that. And then Maga Mike Johnson says Trump could never have wrote that letter because he doesn't do drawings and he doesn't talk like that.

55:35Ben Meiselas:Obviously, you've seen he does draw. He does talk like that. He talks actually much worse than what we saw in the letter. But here, just play Maga Mike.

55:43Michael Popok:Sirens on drugs. because someone drew it in 2003 might have drawn a picture of a I don't know a body letter before the guy even you know all the the real info hadn't even been out at that point I don't

55:58Ben Meiselas:think about this guy the the president and I talked about that ridiculous allegation this morning he said it's patently absurd he's never drawn such a picture he's never thought of drawing such a picture and he said did you see the language of this bogus supposed communication or card or something I supposedly sent to Epstein. He said, I don't talk like that. I don't think like that. They're literally making things up. He's so frustrated by it. And he's going to wind up, I think, suing some of the media outlets that had put all this out there because they informed them that it was totally contrived.

56:30Ben Meiselas:So look, the president is the most maligned and attacked political figure in the history of American politics. There's no question about it, but he's also the most resilient. And you see at the same time, his approval ratings. And Popak, you make the point to me separately on our side chat, that why is that even on CNBC? Well, because that one host is an ultra MAGA guy, and they've allowed their financial coverage to be co-opted by propaganda, by the Trump regime, and by other corporate interests that are collusive in nature and trying to screw over the regular folk. And speaking about screwing over the regular folk, I mean, you know, I agree, Popak, this is an important issue for the midterms, but I've always I always view it very separate, you know, you know, separate.

57:17Ben Meiselas:And to me, this is where my wife always says, well, Ben, you do like politics. Stop saying you don't like politics. And the reality is maybe I do. I don't know. I don't like politicians, but I like human beings and people. And I like speaking to people and trying to offer my legal background, which I utilized for 15 years before doing this to try to just to try to be helpful and navigate crazy and turbulent times and get to the truth. That's what I'm trying to be focused on. So to me, as I look at all of this, we know it's undisputed that Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell were involved in a sex trafficking ring involving dozens, potentially hundreds, maybe even thousands of young girls who were sexually assaulted and abused and had their lives destroyed.

58:14Ben Meiselas:We know some of them through the cases. We don't know all of them. And we know that this sex trafficking ring involved rich men, decamillionaires and billionaires who preyed on young girls. And when Donald Trump and MAGA say this is all a hoax created by James Comey and Obama and Clinton. It is, I'm at a loss of words to describe what an awful thing that is. And I just think sometimes in a political environment, it does get gamified in the sense of here's the Democratic position. Here's now the MAGA position. Here's where the independents are. And let's bring on the talking heads. You saw on CNBC, you have the Trump supporters.

59:20Ben Meiselas:They have their talking points. Okay, now bring on a Democrat and a Republican and let's fight it out. Nah, F that. Like in my view, you're covering up for a sex trafficking ring of young girls that we know exists. When Trump says it's a hoax and not just shut down the investigation, not just don't produce the files, shut down the investigation, you're enabling the worst of the worst behavior imaginable out there. So to me, I just think at a human level, and then when we see Donald Trump in these settings, you know, in the Access Hollywood tape, you know, as he walks, He's about to see a woman that he's about to have a business interaction with, a professional interaction with.

1:00:11Ben Meiselas:And he's saying all of these things about her body, how he grabs women by their genitals. He can't stop himself. He just does it. And he talks about her chest there, you know, and then he goes out and he goes and he goes, good to see you. Good to see you. How are you after being in the bus like that? And we see that. It's disgusting. It's disqualifying. It's vile. And it seems to me that these vile people have all found each other. I mean, you have MAGA Mike, you have Jim Jordan. He had his deposition taken on Friday. He was an assistant wrestling coach at the Ohio State University where there was this guy, Dr.

1:00:57Ben Meiselas:Strauss, and Dr. Strauss would bring in the male athletes and sexually assault them by performing examinations is what he called them, but they weren't examinations. He would sexually assault the athletes. And when I speak to him, you'll see the interview I dropped tomorrow with Michael DeSabato. He's like, Jim Jordan was in the showers with us. Jim Jordan saw it. Jim Jordan knew what was going on. We all knew what was going on. We were men. We didn't know how to articulate what was happening to us. We were afraid of getting cut from the team or not being as part of the team. And so now, knowing that, let me show you a few data points.

1:01:36Ben Meiselas:First, a supercut that Midas Touch made of Jim Jordan and his relationship to Dr. Strauss. Strauss has since died. But here, let me show you this.

1:01:48Michael Popok:Five, former Ohio State wrestlers accusing Republican Congressman Jim Jordan of knowing about a team doctor's alleged sexual misconduct.

1:01:56Ben Meiselas:43 men who say they were sexually assaulted, abused, molested, or harassed by Dr. Richard Strauss. Hundreds of sexual assault victims of Ohio State University Dr. Richard Strauss have never been closer to getting their day in court. The United States Supreme Court today rejecting OSU's bid to dismiss lawsuits brought against the university. Today the Supreme Court left in place a ruling to move forward with lawsuits against the late Dr. Richard Strauss. And this allows more than 230 men to sue the Ohio State University over decades-old sexual abuse by Strauss. And now here is Michael DeSabato's younger brother, Adam DeSabato, at a hearing in Ohio's legislature talking about how Jim Jordan called him, Adam who's one of the victims and said you can't be with your brother anymore you can't help him you can't come out with what happened with Dr.

1:02:59Ben Meiselas:Strauss keep it quiet please and Adam DeSabato who was on the same wrestling team who was also a victim of Dr. Strauss said that Jim Jordan called him crying please you're going to ruin me please you're going to ruin me here watch this

1:03:16Ben Meiselas:this is disgusting you people have the power to do something ohio state is too arrogant they think it's going to go away jim jordan called me crying crying

1:03:37Ben Meiselas:groveling on the 4th of July begging me to go against my brother begging me crying for a half hour

1:03:56Ben Meiselas:that's the kind of cover ups that's going on there Now, you guys can sit and act like it's not going on, but I got a lot of other stuff here. Emails that were taken out of my mailbox. That's a crime. Michael Popak. So finally, Jim Jordan has his deposition taken. I mean, just think about how long these lawsuits are because Ohio State had been fighting this lawsuit. on statute of limitations, went all the way up to the Supreme Court and back down. Finally, Jim Jordan has his deposition taken. But we see so much of this, don't we, Popak? Yeah.

1:04:40Michael Popok:I mean, this is the ecosystem around Donald Trump that enables him. It's people who have equally have moral, immoral blind spots in their own lives. It's a joke that somebody like non-lawyer Jim Jordan heads things like the Judiciary Committee of the House when he himself is embroiled in his own sex scandal, that in any other world, in any other corporate environment, would lead to his downfall. But here he is celebrated and rewarded and fails up because Donald Trump needs as many people who are as ethically and morally compromised as him to surround them as possible. And so the tone is set from the top in any organization.

1:05:30Michael Popok:The administration is an organization. The tone is set by Donald Trump. And that's why you and I are so upset on episodes like this, because we have families, because we have daughters, that Donald Trump gives permission and creates a permission structure and reinforces that permission structure to allow people in government and outside of government to abuse and sexually abuse men, women, and others in our society. And that is, we always, you know, the presidency until Trump, for me, as a child, as a young adult, as a college student, as a lawyer, and as a now legal and political commentator, was always, prior to Trump, a person to look up to, to be admired within the country.

1:06:22Michael Popok:And we usually rate it or rank that way in polling. They think they stopped that polling after Trump. He is supposed to be the leader of the free world. He's supposed to be the moral center of the country. He's supposed to be the consoler-in-chief at times of crisis, unifier in chief in times of war and strife. And we not only don't have that in Donald Trump, but we have, along with his entire infrastructure of leaders, we have depraved people who are immoral and lack any type of ethics. I wouldn't leave my daughter with any of these people for an hour to go run and get a cup of coffee. I wouldn't let them run a bath, let alone run a government.

1:07:12Michael Popok:And yet in the MAGA world and the Republican world, and I do agree with you, there's no daylight between our positions, that you just need to call out what is immutable facts that are disgusting and depraved and immoral that don't have, there's no aisle to it. There's no left side, right side, middle side. It's just immoral. And this normalization that has happened which every so often we're able to pierce it with testimony and the interview you're going to be, you've gotten exclusively with victims. And it matters. It matters. And the fact that we have a commander in chief, it's hard to believe, that, you know, has ordered his Department of Justice and his civil rights division, for instance, to go into court and declare that human life, and especially that of colored people that are black or brown, Americans don't have any value is disgusting.

1:08:12Michael Popok:You know, Breonna Taylor, you know, the Justice Department now filed a brief for sentencing that said that the police officer that killed her should only get a day, including the time served, because they've taken the Civil Rights Division and turned it on its head and are now going after people and promoting people who violate civil rights. This is the administration that you have because it rots from the head. And we need to be empowered with this information in order to continue to form the resistance and the defiance that we have. I mean, we have, I'll just transition quickly, we have a Supreme Court that on the things that should matter and do matter to everyday Americans show that the Supreme Court is completely out of step with the morals and the values of America.

1:09:09Michael Popok:They live in a different time. They live in a time, as one of my colleagues said, that seems to be just a few years after the Reconstruction period in America. They don't live in 2025. They don't share our values. And so they go out of their way to defend and support not just the presidency, although that is the outcome from the precedent that they've established, but they are rallying around and supporting this particular president, Donald Trump. And so in their most recent decision, which everybody should be up in arms about, is the destruction of the Department of Education, created during, I believe, the Carter administration in a bipartisan way because of failing test scores and other major issues, including discrimination in public school and through higher education.

1:10:05Michael Popok:And so the Department of Education was not an entity created to level society to make us mediocre. It was made to lift us up and to support public education in America. I don't want to live in a country that doesn't have a strong public education component to it. and the Republicans, of course, and MAGIT don't support that. One of, you just have to go to Project 2025 created by Russ Fought. Now you're head of Office of Management and Budget and others. And right there it says the Department of Education should be eliminated because they've seen it as a bane to their existence of having public money used for private institutions so they can send their kids to private school and private religious schools without having a Department of Education in their way.

1:10:55Michael Popok:They also don't like the Department of Education protecting mainly women on college campuses from sexual abuse. I've handled cases, so have you, involving just that thing. And the Department of Education has a tremendous role in our society, or had until it was defunded and now allowed to be destroyed by the United States Supreme Court. We are a lesser society by allowing and having allowed Donald Trump to destroy the Department of Education. Linda McMahon defunded it. She reoriented or reoriented it away from its mission to protect students, to protect women on campus, to protect equality on campus, to make sure that testing scores and testing materials and education materials lift up students in public school to give them an ability to compete in society and to put them on equal footing with the rich and the powerful that send their kids to 200 or 2 ,000 private schools in America.

1:11:59Michael Popok:That was created by Congress. It's now been destroyed by the United States Supreme Court. Now, they'll tell you in private or even when they give their public speeches, we didn't make a final decision. That's been all of their decisions has been by administrative stay or procedural defect. But they hand Donald Trump on purpose, complicitly, a win. And what they're saying is, sure, destroy the Department of Education. We'll figure out through the appeal whether that was right or wrong. There won't be a Department of Education at the end of a normal appeal a year from now or more. And that's the point.

1:12:35Michael Popok:And that's why Ketanji Brown-Jackson and Sotomayor and Kagan have been writing for the history books and for law students and for hopefully the near future, the opposition briefs, the opposition position, which is the status quo. You should keep the Department of Education in place and fund it until the appeal is over because we can't unscramble that egg once Humpty Dumpty falls from the wall. But to this administration, their natural instinct is to allow Donald Trump through Doge and the wood chipper and defunding and everything else to hand him win after win after win. And you and I have to cover it, along with the other contributors and Legal AFL and Midas Touch, in order for us to have an appropriate report card and scorecard to use against Donald Trump and the Republicans, because they're the only ones at the midterms that are on the ballot.

1:13:34Michael Popok:Biden's not on the ballot. Kamala's not on the ballot. The only thing on the ballot is a pass-fail for the Republican Party, led by its fearless leader, Donald Trump. And we can't allow him to, we have to pin all of these depraved policies and events supported by the Supreme Court squarely where it belongs. on the back of the Republican Party, the Republican leadership, the Republican House, and the Senate, when they, in the middle of the night, rip away another$90 billion of aid and foreign aid to NPR and National Public Radio and public broadcasting and U.S. aid abroad by doing another process after the reconciliation process on the bill, we need to hold them accountable, which I know Midas will do, Legal AF will do, so that people know why they need to vote against anything from dog catcher up to, you know, up to member of House or Senate at the midterms and why it's so important.

1:14:43And then lastly, it is working.

1:14:46Michael Popok:I want people to understand that. I think you do a good job with that, too, when you do your hot takes. The resistance and the defiance is working. I know there's a little bit of fatigue. Oh, another Supreme Court reversal of something that happened below. But we have to continue with the 400, soon to be 4 ,000 cases, the public interest groups, the attorney general's groups, the plaintiff's groups, all of them joining together, filing almost daily, if not hourly, the lawsuits. That's one way, the resistance movement in the streets. The other way, the town halls and our participation there in this participatory democracy.

1:15:24Michael Popok:You have to lean forward, not back in this moment in history, and find community and fellowship on the Midas Touch Network and Legal AF.

1:15:34Ben Meiselas:Michael Popak, well said. A difficult episode to talk about all of these things, but imperative that we do so fearlessly and lay it all out. And I'm glad that we dedicated pretty much the full show to it because it's an issue that is that important. Everybody, make sure you hit subscribe on our YouTube channel here. Subscribe to the Legal AF YouTube channel. Legal AF YouTube channel is on its way to 1 million subscribers. I'd really want to see that hit 1 million by the end of this summer. Let's go. Subscribe to the Legal AF sub stack. It's doing really good as well. And also, if you or anybody you know has a civil case, if you've been involved in a catastrophic injury or you know someone who's been involved in a catastrophic injury or wrongful death type situation, whether it's a car accident, a trucking accident, some other type of negligence, where you're the victim, you've been the victim of sexual harassment or sexual assault at the workplace or anywhere else, frankly, if you've been a victim of medical malpractice or just have a case, reach out to the Popak firm, consultations free.

1:16:49Ben Meiselas:They represent you at no cost unless there's a recovery. And then there's a contingency fee, as it's called in the profession. And lots of people who have watched this show and watched this network have reached out to Popak, and you're representing dozens and dozens of people right now. Where can they find you?

1:17:10Michael Popok:Yeah, 1-877-POPAKAF, and there'll be somebody on the other end of that phone call to help talk about your case. And then alternatively, although it ends up with a live person, no AI here, you go on our website, www.thepopakfirm.com. read about the firm, read about me and the relationship I have with all the lawyers that are working with me and under me related to these cases and the different practice areas, different types of cases that we represent. And then, of course, there's a multiple ways to fill out a form to end up talking to a human being.

1:17:45Ben Meiselas:Thank you, everybody, for watching this week's episode of Legal AF. We appreciate you as always. Let's keep fighting. Let's keep staying true to the facts. And ultimately, I believe truth and democracy is going to win, but we got to stay in the fight together. Thanks, everybody. We'll see you next time on Legal AF.