Legal AF Full Episode - 7/30/2025

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28:23Michael Popok:That's qualiolife.com slash legal AF for an extra 15 % off your purchase. Your older self will thank you. And thanks to Qualia for sponsoring this episode. Welcome back. Support the show, the sponsors, the Substack, the Legal AF YouTube channel, and of course, the podcast. Now we're back with our original content. I want to talk about Karen. I want to talk about Boesburg. I want to talk about Habba. I want to talk about Boeve. We're going to do a pick them. You pick the one that you want to talk about first and you lead. Which one do you want to talk about first? Well, I'm really outraged by what's happening to Judge Boesburg.

29:03I have to That's the one that just really irritates me, that Judge Bosberg is the chief judge in D.C. He's a great judge by all accounts. He's being jerked around by the Trump administration in his various these these these undocumented immigrant cases. and frankly the Trump administration has already violated his orders and he's initiating contempt proceedings as a result and he went to what's called the judicial conference where it's it this is the judicial conference of the United States it's a national conference of judges and not all judges get to go. I think it's one per circuit, not even one per district.

29:56And then it's like the chief judge in a circuit and then the chief judge of the appellate level and then the Supremes. So it's a small conference and this is a conference that serves as the policymaking body for the federal courts. So it convenes twice a year and they consider administrative and policy issues affecting the federal court system. And they make recommendations to Congress concerning legislation involving the judicial branch. This is something that has gone on for long periods of time. And it's not public. It is a private meeting of judges where they can discuss policy issues. They don't discuss individual cases, et cetera.

30:41And it's a real opportunity to kind of get together and come up with, you know, talk about concerns and things that are going on. And Pam Bondi filed an official complaint against Judge Bozberg, which, I mean, think about this. This is the Attorney General of the United States filing an official complaint against a federal district judge, which is kind of outrageous. And basically said, because it's against him, they filed it with the D.C. Circuit. It went to a judge there. I don't know how to pronounce his name. Srinivazan. Srinivazan. And this basically said that Judge Boesberg made, quote, improper public comments about President Donald J.

31:31Trump to the Chief Justice, meaning John Roberts of the United States Supreme Court and other federal judges that have undermined the integrity and impartiality of the judiciary. Now, what's this about? On March 11th, she says, 2025, Boesberg attended a session of the Judicial Conference of the United States that she characterized as which exists to discuss administrative matters like budgets, security, and facilities. Well, if you look at online what the Judicial Conference of the United States actually is, it says it's a conference that makes policy for federal courts. It's not just about budgets and facilities and security.

32:14This This is about policy. And so that's just complete false, the way she tries to characterize it of what this is. And the complaint goes on to say that he attempted to improperly influence Chief Justice Roberts and two dozen other federal judges, because he expressed what he said was that there are judges, his colleagues, who are of the belief that the Trump administration will disregard rulings of the federal court and trigger a constitutional crisis. Now, again, this is perfectly appropriate. He didn't talk about a particular case. He didn't talk about a preconceived notion about anything.

32:56He said, this is what the judges in my district are saying that they have a concern about this. And he wanted to bring it up to the court, well, to the chief justice in this private setting that's supposed to be private and confidential and a place, a free place to discuss issues. So, you know, she just went off and is accusing him of trying to influence the chief justice, saying that he's violated his canon of ethics, that a judge has to uphold the integrity and independence of the judiciary, that he has to act in ways that promote public confidence, that he shouldn't make public comment on the merits of any matter.

33:35He didn't do any of those things. This was absolutely a private conversation. These were not public. This is leaked information from someone who was there. And these were comments relaying concerns of his colleagues. It wasn't anything about preconceived notions of his own. So, you know, it's really an attempt to intimidate Judge Bozberg and other judges so that they don't do things like enforce orders. And, you know, frankly, another thing Pam Bondi said is, oh, the Trump administration always follows court orders. Well, we know that's not true. We've covered numerous, numerous times where they actually haven't done that.

34:14In fact, there was a, I think, 40-something page rule decision that Judge Boesberg had done, basically essentially spelling out how they violated his order by sending 150 members of a gang that they're alleging are Tren de Aragua, who are Venezuelan, to El Salvador. And that's what this whole thing is about, is that, in fact, that they aren't listening to his order. And so these are concerns that I think are perfectly appropriate to discuss there. And this is absolutely not a problem whatsoever. It would be like saying, you know, if a judge is in chambers talking to his clerks about an issue and they're sort of going back and forth on the issue that somehow if somebody leaks that or overhears that, that that was made public.

35:06That's ridiculous. So it's not a public statement. And certainly he didn't express that he had any preconceived notions if the reporting is accurate. You know, obviously we weren't there. But it was about his colleagues and concerns and what should they do about this? because no attorney general or president in the history of this country that we know of has overtly defied court orders. In fact, Emile Bove, who you teased already, that is, was the criminal defense attorney who represented Donald Trump in the Manhattan DA case, they got a conviction, of course, was just elevated to the Third Circuit as a lifetime appointment for a judge, despite the fact that the numerous whistleblowers, I think four whistleblowers have come forward to talk about how unqualified he is for the job and the fact that he himself said that they are going to basically ignore court orders and use the F word in describing what they're going to do with these court orders.

36:09So there was a reason for, I mean, he was the number two in the Department of Justice up until yesterday when he was given this lifetime appointment. So there is reason to believe that they might, in fact, defy court orders because A, they have said they would, and B, they have done it. And so it was perfectly appropriate thing for him to raise in the forum that he raised it. This is an absolute, ridiculous, frivolous accusation that's going to go nowhere. It's ultimately going to be dismissed. And frankly, if Chief Justice Roberts had a problem with what Judge Bozberg said to him at this conference, he would have said something then and there, but there's no reporting that he did say anything.

36:50This is really just an attempt to delegitimize the justice system, the judicial branch, and frankly, chill judges and chill others from making difficult rulings for fear of retaliation. This is just more bullying on the way.

37:08Michael Popok:And the complaint itself is retaliatory Because it comes on the heels on last Friday. It was 72 hours after Judge Boesberg had before him Department of Justice lawyers in the JGG case, which deals with the 200 people that were sent in the middle of the night over his court orders, which are also the subject of his probable cause to find criminal contempt that's been held up by two Trump judges at the D.C. Court of Appeals, the circuit court, the appellate court for the D.C. federal court. by Judge Rayo and Judge Katsas, who have been just sitting on it since April, just sitting on it. They state his contempt proceedings and just sitting on it.

37:48Michael Popok:And pardon me. You know what's interesting about this while you cough and clear your throat is as I think about this, what if the judge holds a hearing? What's he going to do? Call Chief Justice Roberts to the stand? I mean, he's the, you know, he is the witness. Like, it's crazy to me, this whole thing. Anyway, go on. No, no. So the retaliation is, so people know the timeline. Thursday, Boesburg calls into his courtroom all the lawyers for the Department of Justice, including the ones who had been outed on the one of three so far whistleblowers against Emil Bove, including Erez Riveni, who worked under, well, ultimately under Bove as the number three in the Department of Justice, but really under Drew Ensign in the Immigration Litigation Division, and said in a March meeting that that's where Emil Bove told people, you are to tell federal judges to go F off and go F you if they ask you anything about the Alien Enemies Act and Trump's orders to deport and remove people.

38:45Michael Popok:You are not to give them information. You are not to tell them the truth. You're going to lie to federal judges. That's, and what Boesberg said out loud on Thursday, this is three days before in retaliation, this complaint was filed against him, is he said, I may not be able to move the probable cause for criminal contempt proceeding forward. And people are frustrated because I'm waiting on the appellate court. But the lawyers in front of me, he always talks about the lawyers in front of them. It's not the first time he's lectured the lawyers like Drew Enson and others in the DOJ and said, you only got your professional reputation.

39:20Michael Popok:You've only got your license. You know, you better be telling the truth. You better not be misleading the court. You better not be suborning perjury or being contumacious. He's warned them before. And now he said, this whistleblower that's come out, and that was just about Eros Reveni. There's been two more since then. He said, that only strengthens my fact-finding about the criminal contempt proceedings. But now I'm looking at you guys, and I'm strongly considering making a recommendation, a referral to state disciplinary bar associations for disciplinary proceedings against your bar licenses, meaning getting to spark.

39:58Michael Popok:And then three days later, Pam Bondi citing something that happened in March. This is almost August, right? It happened, whatever it happened, it happened in March. Now they're going to try to claim, well, we didn't really learn about it until we were watching Fox News and John Hugh, a law professor at USC or UCLA, I think UCLA, said he just found out about it from some reporting from the Federalist Society, and they actually cited John Yu to manufacture this issue and to try to make it unstale. They said, oh, July 17th, he was on television. We saw it. Okay, the event happened in March. And as you laid out perfectly, Karen, he's allowed in this conclave of judges to, at that point, four months into the administration, to point out the obvious, is that do we have, he questioned it, do we have an administration that is disobeying and being disobedient to federal courts?

41:03Michael Popok:And if so, what do we do about it? Where else are they supposed to talk about it? And oh, then right after that, he started issuing all of these orders. No, he expressed a genuine concern as the chief judge of DC. Now look, He's been on Donald Trump's shit list and on his radar since he was the second half of the grand jury presiding judge for all things Trump criminal investigation, including the case in front of Judge Chutkin and part of the case in front of Judge Cannon in Mar-a-Lago. And he's the one that eventually ruled that Mike Pence had to testify. And so he's been on the crap list for Donald Trump in this list of, you know, we went into office with his long list of retaliatory things he's going to do.

41:51Michael Popok:You know, give me that list. Bozberg's been on there from day one. And so this is all just retaliation. Hopefully, Judge Stradivassian, who's the head of the appellate court that sits over Judge Bozberg, will see through this. And what they're looking for is not just a referral, like to have him his hand slapped for violating judicial canons. They want to remove from the JGG case. Of course, they want the judge that has him in the crosshairs for a criminal contempt proceeding for lying to him removed from the case, turning the world upside down. my gut is that Srinivasan is going to see through this.

42:27Michael Popok:He's not going to make a referral. He's going to find nothing wrong with it. It's very similar to the tactics that Donald Trump used against Judge Mershon in the criminal conviction case of his up in New York, where he filed bar complaints, judicial, judicial ethics complaints against him. And the guy had to get defend himself and get cleared related to that. We will see. And you and I will follow it very closely. Let's switch gears and go to Habba kind of touched on both. They already Habba. So Habba gets withdrawn from her nomination. She gets reappointed. They fire the person that the 17 judges picked to be the acting interim.

43:09Michael Popok:Desiree Lee Grace. She goes by Lee Grace. Poor 15-year prosecutor. She stepped into it. She was the acting interim for like less than a day. And then Donald Trump said, oh, no, I fire you. And then I'm going to make Alina Habba her own assistant. And then I'm going to elevate the assistant. Then I'm going to make her the special attorney under the Constitution with the powers to be the U.S. Like, why do you want this job? If this is what needs to happen, is that what your resume is going to say, your obituary? She was once the acting interim under an illegal, illicit appointment. This is what you want the job.

43:41Michael Popok:So now criminal defense lawyers like you and me filed a motion of a lawyer in particular at a drug case that was going to trial. like next week to have her disqualified and to have like the indictment dismissed because she's not a properly appointed confirmed U.S. attorney. And because she sued, because 17 judges opposed her being extended in her role under a statute, they were all recused and disqualified. So it got referred by the Third Circuit Court of Appeals chief judge to another judge in the Circuit, the Middle District of Pennsylvania, sort of sitting by designation as a New Jersey judge.

44:23Michael Popok:And he put a hold on the trial. Imagine the defense team. They're like, yes. The trial's put on hold while he considers whether everything that Elena Habba touches gets voided because she's improperly appointed. And then she had to file a brief with all her crap. Why don't you take it from that perspective? And one last little Easter egg. The lawyer who represents the criminal client, the drug dealing client, drug person client, he rents space in the Trump building at 40 Wall Street. You know, 40 Wall Street downtown pretty well. And that's where he rents space. I made a joke that he needs to start looking for new space.

45:03Michael Popok:All right, go ahead. I'll say as a criminal defense attorney, I will say the alleged drug dealer. I'm sorry. You're right. It's all alleged. I love what he's doing. I know. What's astounding and what I've never seen happen before is all federal court proceedings throughout New Jersey are canceled. They are literally getting administratively adjourned without a date because of this uncertainty about whether Alina Habba has the authority to serve as the acting U.S. attorney different than an interim U.S. attorney, which her term as interim expired. And so it's really convoluted and really difficult to understand what this is.

45:43But essentially, there are different ways to become a U.S. attorney. There's being appointed by the president officially and then being Senate confirmed, which is the normal way it happens. Oftentimes, though, presidents will appoint the person that they are nominating as the interim so that they can hit the ground running while they go through the confirmation process. And that gives 120 days while you're the interim. Well, her term expired and Trump then had nominated her officially to be the U.S. attorney. And so she was no longer the interim. And so what happens next? the 17 judges in federal district court went to go vote and decide, because they have the authority to do this, who's going to be U.S.

46:32attorney. They could have voted for Alina Habba, but all 17 voted against her because, or didn't vote for her, voted for this career prosecutor who actually has experience, who Alina Habba had enough respect for, and the Republicans had enough respect for, because obviously we know Alina Habba is not the ultimate decision maker. She's more of a MAGA puppet, if you will. They approved of Desiree Lee Grace. And she was, by all accounts, a respected federal prosecutor. Whether she's Democrat or Republican, it shouldn't matter. It doesn't matter because you're supposed to prosecute without fear or favor, which is what all prosecutors are supposed to do.

47:10You're supposed to be blind to politics, to parties, to all of that. It's just about whether the person committed the crime or not. And so she had the respect of everybody. So all 17 judges voted for her and they made her the interim United States attorney or the United States, the acting United States attorney. Well, what does the Trump administration do? They fire her and then make, instead, they make Alina Habba what she was, the acting, which is different than interim. This gives her 210 days to be acting. And so, but the argument is not over yet because there is a statute that says you can't be acting if you were also nominated by the president.

48:00And they're saying, oh, but he withdrew the nomination so that she can be acting for 210 days, which they did to try to play games here. But according to various legal experts who know about this sort of thing, what they're saying is it doesn't matter. It's not that whether you withdraw it or not, she was still nominated. And so you can't use this to get around the Senate confirmation process. And so the judges are saying, look, this is not non-frivolous. And so as a result, because we have to pursue this, because I don't know, we have to litigate this, we have to put everything on pause while we figure this out.

48:38Because otherwise, everything that is done by that office, by Alina Habba, who signs every single indictment and has to sign everything that goes out, she's the one who has the authority to prosecute. Obviously, to prosecute someone to take away their liberty, it's the ultimate power that somebody has. not just anyone off the street can do that, obviously. So if her appointment is not legitimate, then anything she does will have a waterfall effect and not be legitimate. So they have it on pause while they litigate this issue. It's a very, very serious thing that's happening. And criminal prosecutions at the federal level in the state of New Jersey are on hold because of it.

49:19Michael Popok:That's the big, I have not heard that reported that way. And that's one of the great, of many attributes you bring to Legal AF and to briefing our audience is that kind of nuance. because I've seen a lot of people like, oh, they focus on the Alina Abba drama part, and they don't focus on the impact on the criminal justice system in New Jersey, the fifth largest U.S. attorney's office in America, and its deleterious impact of playing games with trying to get your office wife to be something that she can't be. I'll leave it on this. In her filing that she just did to oppose this motion that I just talked about, she actually acknowledges on page two that there's something better than her, a Senate confirmed U.S.

50:05Michael Popok:attorney because she said, well, regardless about me, this case should go forward with this alleged drug dealer because they were indicted by a grand jury and a properly Senate confirmed U.S. attorney. I was like, well, that's self-confessional. I agree with that. There is something better than you and stronger than you. But because she's so stupid, she doesn't even know. The other thing I loved about her filing, it was there was actually an exhibit where in the same letter, not even two different letters, She said, I resign from the Office of Acting Interim U.S. Attorney. Next slide. I look forward to serving as the U.S.

50:42Michael Popok:Attorney for New Jersey. It's like, couldn't you at least do that in two letters? I mean, it's so hokey and so half smart. It's just ridiculous. Well, we've got to put our brainpower on because when we come back from our next break, we've got to dive into redistricting. And I don't want the audience's eyes to glaze over when we talk about voter disenfranchisement, the Voting Rights Act. I mean, I just learned, for instance, in Miami that the roles have been purged of over 250 ,000 Democrats and only 40 ,000 Republicans based on things like signature and registration issues by the Republican head of the county, the county clerk who's responsible for all these things, who's a Republican operative.

51:25Michael Popok:And that's what's happening. You may think you're registered, but you're not registered. And if you live in a red state or a purpley state, depending upon who the person is responsible, the secretary of state or others, go and make sure you are registered to vote. Because you don't want to find out and scramble on the day of the election that you get there. Sorry, you were taken off the rolls. That's what they are doing behind the scenes. We're going to talk about that. We're going to talk about redistricting, which is making the districts for congressional representation. conversation how many seats are we going to have in the house come the midterms as donald trump tries to steal the midterm election before our very eyes we can't let him do that we're going to talk about all that now we're going to talk about the ways to support the show you know it legal af the youtube channel hit the free subscribe button there we're doing some amazing work there 10 12 new videos every day this podcast top 20 on youtube podcasts you can you can help us by bringing more people to this audience.

52:23Michael Popok:Come over to the audio version. We can use a little love there. We're in the 50 to 90 range in terms of ratings. It matters because we don't have a corporate parent. We don't have outside investors. We don't have a paywall. So this is it. As I joked recently in a hot take, if only like 10 % of the people that watch my hot takes would just hit the subscribe button, I would stop having to ask. It's like PBS. You'll get a tote bag and you'll get a coffee mug if you'll support us. And believe me, they need support now more than ever like us. But come over to the podcast, the audio, leave a comment, hit your reminders, five-star review, and all that good stuff.

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55:47Michael Popok:Welcome back to the midweek edition of Legal AF with your co-anchors, Michael Popok and Karen Freeman, Ignifilo. Redistricting, gerrymandering, things that come off the census, the acts of the Republicans in red states to make them redder in places where there are Democrats in blue dots in red seas trying to go after their seats are all coming to a head. We're watching it play out in Texas, where they have rolled out a new map that eliminate five Democratic seats, just eliminate them, or make them so Republican-oriented that they will be eliminated, increasing power in a state that Donald Trump only won, I say only, by 54 percent, because that wasn't bad.

56:36Michael Popok:We're getting closer in Texas. And of course, Donald Trump doesn't want us to get closer in Texas. He doesn't want it to be purple. He wants to be baked in red for a long, long time, especially at the midterms. So the fight is not for this hypothetical, you know, 16, 18 months from now fights now over things like losing seats in Texas. Sure, we may gain a couple of seats in California. You know, New York, unfortunately, unfortunately, New York screwed it up and brought in some sort of, you know, this is why Democrats sometimes are bringing a knife to a gunfight. Sorry for that analogy these days, but they're not playing with sharp enough elbows.

57:17Michael Popok:And we're getting steamrolled by the Republicans who have their act together and are able to bring to bear in their states, they have no problems and no qualms about steamrolling Democrats. Democrats are always like, well, why don't we get an independent mapmaker? Why? Why do we need to do an independent mapmaker? We need to gain as many seats in blue states as we're going to lose in red states. That's how this works. And I know people get squeamish about that. Like, well, aren't we the better party? Yes. Aren't we above that? Yes. But that doesn't mean we're going to let them steal our lunch money every day on the bus stop.

57:57Michael Popok:I mean, it has to end. Or we're going to end as a party and the two-party system is going to end. So there's a guy, Karen, particularly in Texas that I learned a lot about in preparing for today, who's responsible for all of these maps. This guy, who I'm going to find his name in a minute, this guy, Adam Kincaid, who I never heard of, is the executive director of the National Republican Redistricting Trust. They put the word trust at the end of it, make it sound better. He's the map maker. They're spending a lot of time and money making maps, and they've got a Department of Justice and the Civil Rights Division with Harmeet Dillon, who is doing Donald Trump's bidding by not opposing and not finding a violation of the Voting Rights Act by anything the Republicans or Andrew Kincaid want to do or Adam Kincaid want to do.

59:00Michael Popok:So everything, anything he draws, she's like, well, looks good to me. Looks like it won't violate the Voting Rights Act. So if the DOJ isn't going to do what they did under Merrick Garland and others, they're not going to defend the Voting Rights Act, then that means public interest groups are going to have to go run into court and argue against redistricting with an opponent being the Department of Justice. This is the ramifications of elections and why elections matter. So and then J.D. Vance, why don't you pick up with J.D. Vance, maybe blowing the case that will eventually be filed and your own comments about this redistricting issue in Texas.

59:39Yeah, he put he put up a tweet that he then had to take down and redo because he kind of showed his hand. One says the gerrymander in California is outrageous. Of their 52 congressional districts, nine of them are Republican. That means 17 % of their delegation is Republican when Republicans regularly win 40 % of the state. Republicans in Texas are right to fight back. Well, obviously, that was kind of an admission, essentially. So then he changed it to the gerrymander in California is outrageous. Of their 52 congressional districts, nine of them. Wait, what did he hold on?

1:00:13Michael Popok:No, he had. How can they. How can this. Yes, exactly. How can this possibly be allowed? Exactly. Sorry. They took out the Texas should fight back and add, how can this possibly be allowed? Which is, you know, clearly, clearly an admission that the whole thing is screwed up. I've always thought gerrymandering is wrong, frankly. And if there's anything resembling close to stealing an election that Donald Trump keeps saying, it's stuff like this, right? It's ridiculous how they go through. And they literally look at, okay, where are the black and brown people? Where are the white people? Where are the Democrats?

1:00:52Where are the Republicans? And they stretch these boundaries to essentially isolate and contain people so that they don't have a voice. And it really just disenfranchises minority groups and doesn't represent the United States. But when you're deliberately, so the way it's supposed to happen is every 10 years, there's a census. and that's when you states typically go through and say you know let's look at who has come into our state where are they and how do we give them representation and you're supposed to fairly draw these these maps these lines so that people are represented in federal elections and and that's you know there's a there's the voting rights act there's all kinds of case law that interprets those including Supreme Court precedent.

1:01:45But gerrymandering, I think, is very problematic because it's political and it disenfranchises so many people. And here it's just blatant. And the fact that they're doing it not every 10 years, this is halfway through, this is five years, and they're doing it so that when the midterms come around, they can make sure that the Democrats don't regain any House seats. And why can they do that? Because the Constitution says that the time, place, and manner of elections is up to the states. So states get to do stuff like this. And Texas, because Texas is historically a red state, they love this. And so their laws allow for this.

1:02:24And other states like New York and California, because they care about things like fairness, because it is inherently unfair. If you were to talk to a kindergartner and say, is it fair to literally go and take a crayon and draw a map where you put certain people together just to get an advantage? Is that fair? That wouldn't pass muster for a kindergartner. Imagine trying to do that in elementary school. It is so preposterous, but somehow we have come to accept this ridiculous way of living and of voting. And so we have this. And the Democrats, though, in blue states are like, you know what, this is fundamentally unfair.

1:03:07And so we, because we believe in things like fairness, even if it means we lose sometimes, we're going to pass laws in our states that say, no, you're going to have things like independent commissions, or we're going to take certain things into consideration. And so, as you said, the Democrats are constantly bringing, I don't even know if they're bringing a knife to a gunfight, they're bringing just their fists to a gunfight. And we keep losing at 20 Ways to Sunday. But this is the way, this is our, one of our biggest vulnerabilities is the fact that most of the state legislatures in this country are red, they're Republican-led, and because the Constitution gives the time, place, and manner of federal elections to the states, this is how one of the many ways they are going to potentially create issues.

1:03:52It's not fair, it's not right, and we have to fight back, as you said.

1:03:57Michael Popok:Yeah, and this is the way, you know, this is that portion of the show as we end the show. That's opinion? No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Action. Action time. It's fists up, elbows up. People always ask me, what can we do about it? Okay. There's lots of things you can do about it. I mean, I just got invited and I'm going on Thursday to a town hall in a very red district in Miami being held at the Coral Gables Congregational Church, 7 p.m. on Thursday. I mean, it's hosted by the Democrats, but, I mean, all the Republican elected officials, including congresspeople, have been invited. I'm not sure who's going to attend.

1:04:35Michael Popok:They may be tried in absentia, but I'll be there. And we're going to talk about voting, voting registration, the purging of the voting rolls in Miami of 250 ,000 Democrats versus 40 ,000 Republicans. What we can do about that now. We know one of the benefits, I think, of this show is to give you knowledge and power now so that you can do something about it. There's an old Chinese adverb or a proverb. Sorry. I've been working all day about when is the best time to plant a tree? 30 years ago. When is the second best time to plant the tree? Today. Today. And not worry about what you didn't do. Just lean forward, not back.

1:05:19Michael Popok:And so we can't go back and fix the 2020 census. We can't go back and fix the election that just happened. We can't fix Harmeet Dillon being head of the Civil Rights Division. We can't fix the Supreme Court MAGA right wing totally emasculating or undermining the Voting Rights Act. We can't fix that. We have to work within the rules and the cards that we've been dealt. And so what we do is on the ground and on the street, we make sure that our people are voting. We make sure that we vote in important elections that aren't just presidential or general, that we make sure that we regain state houses because that's where it starts, right?

1:05:56Michael Popok:They were smart, the Republicans, and they worked on the state houses and getting the boards of education and getting the local government positions. and the Secretary of State positions. And we were asleep at the switch a little bit. We've got to wake up. We've got to wake up. And if Trump hasn't woken us up, then I don't know what will. He's like, I won't say it. But offline, I will tell you what I was thinking. So get involved. Find your local, whatever your party affiliation is. If you're independent, that's great too. There's ways for you to help with voter registration right now. There's ways for you to vote on call banking, calling into senators and the rest to help with some of the things that are going on at the Senate level and to reinforce and support the Democrats who are working hard for you in leadership but need us.

1:06:45Michael Popok:There's no greater position in America. It's not president. It's not congressperson or senator. It's citizen. Our framers and founders knew that, and we know that. And so we're in this together. I don't want people to ever walk off the show and going, oh, this is just one terrible story after another. It's empowerment. It's about speaking truth to each other first and then taking that and putting it into action. So we're at the end of our show. Karen, last word for you on Legal AF before we sign off for our shout out to our Midas Mighty and our Legal AFers. Another one bites the dust, Popak. Brown University is settling with the Trump administration to unlock funds.

1:07:27and there's words that Harvard is making noises that they might settle to. So my last words are Harvard, stay strong, don't capitulate and do whatever you have to do, but don't capitulate to the Trump administration. Those are my positive words.

1:07:44Michael Popok:Bad things happen when you bend over for Donald Trump. And I appreciate you calling out the Harvards. And now he's going after one of my alma mater is going after Duke and Duke Law. The new one is like, oh, the Duke Law Journal will let people on for DEI. I'm like, are you effing kidding me? Don't you have a day job? Aren't you supposed to be protecting our national security or economic security instead of running it all to ground? I am told that hospitals are being told that you are not allowed to put your pronouns in your Zoom name. You have to remove all of that. You have to remove all DEI, everything from anything that you have, including things like that.

1:08:31If you don't, they are incentivizing people in the institution to be whistleblowers. And they are financially incentivizing them. And they are, it is outrageous.

1:08:45Michael Popok:You set up a bounty of your own employee? Basically, that is what I am being told is happening across this country. It is unbelievable to me. And it's because of this, this so much federal funding for research, for science. And everybody's so worried about it. We saw it. We saw the Red Scare and what it did in America. You turn in your neighbor because you thought they were a communist, incentivizing bad behavior and unpatriotic behavior. I mean, if people are bored over the summer, go read Roth's Plot Against America, a novel, but it will send a chill down your spine compared to what we're watching now, Philip Roth's book.

1:09:24Michael Popok:but we should set up a Legal AF like an Oprah recommendations for books club we'll do that one day we should do that over the summer but we've reached the end of Legal AF midweek tune in Saturday when Ben Mycelis and I are back for the Saturday edition and then we've got hot takes about every hour at the intersection of law and politics over on the Legal AF YouTube channel my work of course on the Midas Touch Network and follow all of us I think we bring Our competitive advantage is you, our audience. So shout out to the Midas Mighty and the Legal AFers.