Secret Incriminating Texts Inside Trump DOJ Surface!!!

12 Jul 2025 · 21 min · 8 chapters

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In short

The episode alleges that Donald Trump’s DOJ leadership, specifically Emil Bovee (nominated to the Third Circuit), directed or enabled lawyers to defy or undermine court orders in immigration/deportation litigation under the Alien Enemies Act, using “incriminating” text messages and claims of misinformation to federal judges.

Guest backgrounds

No guests are interviewed in the transcript. The host, Michael Popak, discusses whistleblower Erez Ruvani (15+ years in DOJ immigration litigation; fired after telling Judge Zinnis the truth about an illegal deportation) and references DOJ lawyer August Flinchy.

Key claims

Texts allegedly show DOJ lawyers discussing telling courts “fuck you” and ignoring orders; the episode also claims oral injunctions were not properly disseminated, leading to flights taking off.

Notable examples

Senator Adam Schiff’s cross-examination of Bovee; alleged March 19 texts (“submit an emoji of a middle finger”); “planes needed to take off no matter what” discussion; Bondi’s rebuttal calling Ruvani a “leaker.”

Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.

Chapters

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Whistleblower Revelations on Emil Bovee

1:30 to 4:25

Discussion on whistleblower Erez Ruveni's claims against Emil Bovee and the DOJ's actions.

“Text messages, the receipts may hang Emil Bovee and the Department of Justice under Donald Trump in front of federal judges.”

Text Messages and Bovee's Testimony

4:25 to 9:25

Analyzing the text messages and Emil Bovee's controversial statements during a hearing.

“Worst thing that Pam Bondi could have ever done was to fire Eris Reveni.”

Text Messages and Bovee's Testimony

10:02 to 10:13

Analyzing the text messages and Emil Bovee's controversial statements during a hearing.

“Again, that's trymiracle.com slash legal AF to treat yourself.”

Implications of Bovee's Testimony

10:13 to 14:01

Exploring the fallout from Emil Bovee's statements and their impact on legal proceedings.

“And that's not the only thing that came up during the confirmation hearing that's coming out of these text messages.”

Discussion on Court Orders and Whistleblowers

14:01 to 16:20

Explore the implications of court orders and the motivations behind whistleblowing in the DOJ.

“I did over the course of time, as many lawyers have, provide advice about the scope of court orders.”

Critique of Pam Bondi's Statements

16:21 to 18:08

Analyzing Pam Bondi's claims regarding court orders and DOJ ethics.

“Bove testified, there was no court order to defy.”

Upcoming Senate Judiciary Committee Hearing

18:09 to 18:36

Preview the Senate Judiciary Committee's cross-examination plans involving Emil Bove.

“The next step in this, the Senate Judiciary Committee will use this in the continued cross-examination of Emil Bove.”

Upcoming Senate Judiciary Committee Hearing

20:33 to 20:57

Preview the Senate Judiciary Committee's cross-examination plans involving Emil Bove.

“I lied to you when you asked if I knew what a deductible was.”
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Transcript

Automatic transcript. May contain errors.

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1:59state.

2:00Michael Popok:Text messages, the receipts may hang Emil Bovee and the Department of Justice under Donald Trump in front of federal judges. No, this is not Grim Reaper time on Midas Touch. We got some great news. Remember that whistleblower, Erez Ruveni, who worked in the Department of Justice immigration litigation for over 15 years, and they fired him because he committed the crime of telling Judge Zinnis the truth that Abrego Garcia was illegally deported by ICE. Remember that guy? Well, he got a lawyer and he decided, I'm going to be a whistleblower because I know what happened with Emil Bovey. Emil Bovey, Donald Trump's criminal defense lawyer, now the number three in the Department of Justice, up for a lifetime appointment to the appellate court, the Third Circuit Court of Appeals.

2:49Michael Popok:He's in the middle of a confirmation hearing, not going so well, especially when you have Erez Ruveni who everybody who ever worked for the guy and worked with the guy and came up to the Department of Justice with the guy said as an Eagle Scout he cannot tell a lie they believe him Pam Bondi runs around or Pamela Jo Bondi as they like to refer to her in the whistleblower world she says he's not a real whistleblower he's just a leaker seeking his five minutes of fame. Five minutes of fame? The guy's LinkedIn picture is a courtroom sketch of him in court with Judge Zinnis. He's been toiling away in the Department of Justice as a nameless, faceless lawyer for 15 years.

3:33Michael Popok:And now suddenly he wants to have his five minutes of fame and it's 15 minutes of fame anyway, Bondi. Let me tell you what just happened with the text messages, which confirm that Emil Bovee told, this is according to the whistleblower, told the assembled masses in March that as it related to the immigration and deportation actions of Donald Trump under the Alien Enemies Act, that they, and I quote, were to go tell federal judges to go fuck off. Pardon my French. Tell them to go F themselves. Give them the middle finger. That's what Erez Riveni heard. And that's what he confirmed and was joked about in text messages that he has with other people in the Department of Justice like his boss, August Flenschen.

4:19Michael Popok:So you've got the goods and you're here on Midas Touch and Legal AF. Let's get down to it. Worst thing that Pam Bondi could have ever done was to fire Eris Reveni. They should have just let him toil away. We never would have heard from him. The resistance and the defiance would never have been exhibited. But no, they fired him. And for doing his job, for telling the truth consistent with the rules of professional responsibility and has swore an oath as an officer of the court. Now, when he came out a month ago and said, I was told that 27 pages to the Senate Judiciary Committee that he claimed, I was told in a meeting with my boss, including Drew Ensign, who has been lying to federal judges according to the whistleblower complaint, I was told by Emil Bovee himself, that we were going to give the middle finger and tell judges to go F off.

5:14Michael Popok:We were not going to comply. We were not going to give them the information about these deported and removed people when asked. That's why Drew Ensen apparently when asked by Judge Boesberg in the D.C., the chief judge of the D.C. federal court about the 200 people in front of him. He was given misinformation about whether planes were landing or taking off after he had grounded them. Emil Bovey also is the one that came up with the brilliant idea that because the injunction was only issued or the block was only issued by Judge Bozberg from the bench and hadn't been written down yet, they could ignore it.

5:49Michael Popok:And then they also lied to Judge Zinnis, same lawyer, Drew Ensign, about their ability to bring Abrego Garcia back from El Salvador. And it's all come together now with these text messages, which I'm going to read to you from. First, I want to run a clip. of when Adam, this is just a couple weeks ago, when Senator Adam Schiff cross-examined Emil Bovee about whether he told the group there, including Erez Riveni, the whistleblower, to go tell federal judges to go F off. Wait till you hear his response. It may or may not shock you. Let's roll the clip. Turn to the meeting that Mr. Riveni, the whistleblower, has written an extensive of complaint about.

6:33The hearing started with the chairman reading a social media post by the Deputy Attorney General Blanche, who is present today, but not under oath, nor is that social media post under oath. So let me ask you, since you are under oath, in the complaint it says Beauvais stated that DOJ would need to consider telling the courts, fuck you, and ignoring any such court order. Did you say anything of that kind in the meeting? Senator, I have no recollection of saying anything of that kind. To the extent I use the... Wouldn't you recall, Mr. Bove, if you said or suggested during a meeting with Justice Department lawyers that maybe they should consider telling the court, fuck you?

7:16It seems to me that would be something you'd remember unless that's the kind of thing you say frequently. Well, I've certainly said things encouraging litigators at the department to fight hard for valid positions that we have to take in defense of our clients. And have you frequently suggested that they say, fuck you and ignore court orders? Is that also something you frequently do such you might not remember doing it on this occasion? No. And as I explained, I have never directed. So did you or did you not make those comments during that meeting? Which comments, Senator? You really need me to repeat it?

7:51Did you suggest, as Mr. Ruvani wrote, that DOJ would need to consider telling the courts, fuck you, and ignore any such court order? I did not suggest that there would be any need to consider ignoring court orders. At the point of that meeting, there were no court orders to discuss. Well, did you suggest telling the courts, fuck you, in any manner? I don't recall. You just don't remember that?

8:17Michael Popok:I can't recall. And as any good prosecutor, cross-examiner like Schiff, and I've been known to do that myself in 35 years of practice, you just say a version of, you can't recall a meeting from March where you told somebody to go F off. I'll put you down for a yes. And then you move on. The weather, it's heating up, and your nighttime bedroom temperature has a huge impact on your sleep quality. If you wake up too hot or too cold, I highly recommend you check out Miracle Maid's bedsheets. Miracle Maid sheets are inspired by NASA, and use silver-infused fabrics that are temperature-regulating so you can sleep at the perfect temperature all night long.

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10:12Michael Popok:Thank you, Miracle Made, for sponsoring this episode. And that's not the only thing that came up during the confirmation hearing that's coming out of these text messages. Let me read to you from the text messages, and then I'll go to the next clip about Emil Bove coming up with this grand scheme. In one text message, which The Guardian and others are reporting on, in which they also diss Pamela Jo Bondi, here's what the initial complaint said that Bovee had told the Justice Department they would need to consider telling the courts to F you and ignore any such court order. We just saw the clip where he said he can't recall.

10:52Michael Popok:I'll put that down for yes. But then the text messages back and forth between Erez Riveni and August Flinchy, another lawyer in the Department of Justice. This is coming out of Bloomberg Law, reported in The Guardian, were the following. Here's the quote. guess we're about to say F you, spelled out, to the court. Super, Riveni texted a colleague. The colleague replied, well, Pamela Jo Bondi is, not you. In other words, don't worry, you're not telling the judges to F off. Pamela Jo Bondi is.

11:28Michael Popok:During the hearing, as you saw from the clip, Bovee denied that he ever instructed a Justice Department attorney to defy a court order. But the messages released by Riveni suggest that the Justice Department lawyers were aware of the possibility that they might have to ignore judicial orders because one of the newly disclosed emails by Riveni shows that Bovee gave the okay to deplane the flights on foreign soil because the order from Bozberg blocking it or stopping it was oral in nature. Let's run the clip of that coming up during the confirmation hearing. Roll clip number two. Well, let me ask you this.

12:06It also says in the complaint, Beauvais indicated and stressed to all in attendance that the planes needed to take off no matter what. These are the planes that a judge was ordering not be used to render people to a maximum security prison outside the country. Did you say during that meeting, did you stress to all in attendance that the planes needed to take off no matter what? Senator, your characterization is not accurate. it's not my characterization it's the characterization of a decorated prosecutor was in that meeting are you saying that he's lying as i said at the beginning of the hearing no no i'm not interested what you said at the beginning of the hearing i'm interested in whether you stressed to people in attendance that the planes needed to take off no matter what did you say that i certainly conveyed the importance of the upcoming operation well don't don't paraphrase here.

13:01Did you tell people in attendance the planes needed to take off no matter what? I don't recall the specific words that I use. Wouldn't you recall saying that if you had instructed that the planes needed to take off no matter what, including whether the court ordered otherwise? You wouldn't remember that? This is a mischaracterization, Senator. There were no court orders at this point. Well, there was a court order, wasn't there? Wasn't there a court order by Judge Boesburg, if not in this specific case, then in related cases, that people not be sent out of the country until the court could rule?

13:33Wasn't there a court order? Not at the time of that meeting. Did you participate in the decision not to disseminate that oral court order prior to the written court order to other agencies so those planes would not take off, so those planes would turn around? Were you involved in the decision to withhold that court order from the responsible agencies? I think it's clear that I participated. Yes or no. I participated in this matter, and I'm not going to get into the contents of legal advice. I did over the course of time, as many lawyers have, provide advice about the scope of court orders. I'm interested in whether you participated in the willful violation of court orders as alleged in this complaint.

14:12Absolutely not. Let me ask you this, Mr. Bouvet. If there are notes of that meeting, will you provide them to this committee? I defer to the committee and to the executive branch on the procedure. And if the committee requests them, will you provide those notes to the committee? I defer to the executive branch on the handling of that request.

14:29Michael Popok:Now, according to Riveni's text message, here's how that came about. And so he's got the receipt, putting a lie to what you just saw in that testimony under oath by Riveni. At this point, this is what somebody wrote. This is what Riveni wrote in the March 19th message to someone. At this point, why don't we just submit an emoji of a middle finger as our filing to the federal judge? A picayune middle finger. So stupid, his boss, that's August Flinchy, wrote back. The message shows how the lawyers were talking about it at the time. Again, everyone that's ever worked with Riveni says the guy is on the up and up and should be trusted.

15:15Michael Popok:And it sounds like him. Bondi comes back on X, of all places, of course, and tries to tear him down. She says, quote, we support legitimate whistleblowers, but this disgruntled employee is not a whistleblower. He's a leaker asserting false claims, seeking five minutes of fame conveniently timed just before a confirmationary. When else is he going to bring it up? He didn't know at the time that he got fired that Emil Bove was going to be nominated to be a lifetime appointed Third Circuit Court of Appeals judge, having never been a judge, having been wholly unqualified in just the short amount of time he's been in the Department of Justice, all the unethical things that he's done.

15:55Michael Popok:He didn't know that at the time. And yes, if I'm a whistleblower and I'm getting my things together and I see the guy that should never even sniff a federal judgeship being nominated for one in a confirmation hearing, of course I'm going to come forward now. It just shows you he doesn't want his 15 minutes of fame. He wants to make sure Emil Bove goes down in flames, understandably so. She continued, as Mr. Bove testified, there was no court order to defy. What? Pam Bondi. I don't know what law school you went to, if any, or as my late mother would say, it was out of a Cracker Jack box, your law diploma.

16:42Michael Popok:A federal judge gives you an injunction from the bench orally, you better comply with it or you're in contempt. This is another instance, she says, of misinformation being spread to serve a narrative that does not align with the facts. I don't understand. He got fired because he violated his ethical duties to the department. He got fired because he wouldn't lie for the Department of Justice. He was complimented by Judge Zinnis for telling the truth in her courtroom. I could never imagine the day in 35 years of my career where a Department of Justice lawyer, which what had from a legal department that had been one of the finest and most revered in the world, would have to be complimented, pointed out, called out and complimented by a federal judge for telling the truth in her courtroom.

17:33Michael Popok:Isn't that the lowest? Isn't that like the basic thing that has to happen? That he has to tell the truth in a courtroom by way of his sworn oath as a lawyer, as a member of the Department of Justice representing the United States of America in court? That shouldn't be complimented. That should be assumed, but not with this Department of Justice. as I've only half joked. How do you know when Pam Bondi's Department of Justice is lying? Their lips move when they speak, period. I'll continue to cover it. The next step in this, the Senate Judiciary Committee will use this in the continued cross-examination of Emil Bove.

18:18Michael Popok:And if I know people like Adam Schiff, they're going to rip Emil, pardon the expression, are going to rip Emil Bove's heart out and show it to him during this must-watch TV. It'll be up on MidasDutch. We'll do it on Legal AF TV as well in the confirmation hearing for Emil Bove. I'm Michael Popak. You're on MidasDutch Network. Hit the subscribe button here. Slide over to Legal AF YouTube channel. Hit the subscribe button there as well. No paywall. We don't have outside investors. This is it. Help us this way. Take your receipt and hit those subscribe buttons. Until my next report, I'm Michael Popak.

18:55Michael Popok:Can't get your fill of Legal AF? Me neither. That's why we formed the Legal AF Substack. Every time we mention something in a hot take, whether it's a court filing or a oral argument, come over to the Substack. You'll find the court filing and the oral argument there, including a daily roundup that I do call, wait for it, Morning AF. What else? All the other contributors from Legal AF are there as well. We got some new reporting. We got interviews. We got ad-free versions of the podcast and hot takes. Wear legal AF on Substack. Come over now to free subscribe. With summer coming to an end, you're going to be spending more time indoors.

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From the publisher

Who says there is no proof that Trump’s DOJ senior leadership told its lawyers to tell federal judges to go “f’ themselves” about Trump’s deportation and removal activities?, After the DOJ’s Emil Bove denied in his appeals court judge confirmation hearing before the Senate Judiciary Committee that he uttered those words, the whistleblower found real time texts that prove that he did and threw Pam Bondi under the boss for good measure. Michael Popok explains that if this doesn’t tank Bove’s appeal court nomination, it will certainly catch the attention of Chief Judge Boasberg and Judge Xinis who were on the receiving end of the “f u”.

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