The Intersection with Michael Popok - 1/13/2026

27:09We allege that the surge reckless impact on our schools, on our local law enforcement is a violation of the 10th Amendment and the sovereign laws and powers of the Constitution grants to states. We allege that DHS's use of excessive and lethal force, their warrantless racist arrests, their targeting of our courts, our churches, houses of worship and schools are a violation of the administrative procedures act on arbitrary and capricious federal actions. And we ask that the courts will end the surge of thousands of DHS agents into Minnesota.

27:54Michael Popok:And that was Keith Ellison, who I'll have back on to brief our Legal AF audience as well. My producer was able to find the statement made by Becca Good, who again, as we said at the top of this intersection, Joe Thompson quit as the Minnesota U.S. attorney rather than investigate and or prosecute this poor grieving widow. Here's what she had to say about her, the loss of her wife. Renee leaves behind three extraordinary children. The youngest is just six years old and already lost his father. I'm now left to raise our son and to continue teaching him as Renee believed that there are people building a better world for him.

28:35Michael Popok:But the people who did this had fear and anger in their hearts, and we need to show them a better way. Does that sound like a left-wing agitator who's been weaponized and for somebody that J.D. Vance should feel sorry for? Or should the sorrow run the other way? And I'm going to, when we come back from a quick break here, we're going to have another leading attorney general, state attorney general. We're going to have Rob Bonta come on and brief us about everything that's happening in the world of attorney generals having to step in against a corrupt and now imploding Department of Justice and winning in the courtrooms on behalf of the American people and the case of A.G.

29:19Michael Popok:Bonta, the people of the state of California. There's a lot of ways to support what we're doing here. We've already got the audience. We're getting a half a million people or so to watch the show every week. We're now in the top 50 or so of all YouTube podcasts because of you. People know me. I sit at the intersection of law and politics every day, 40 videos a week, if you can believe it. And I'm not able to catch up with everything we need to do on Legal AF YouTube channel and on the Midas Touch Network. And if you want to support what we do, give us the resources to continue to grow for 2026 and bring on contributors like the American Civil Liberties Union that's now joined Legal AF as a regular contributor about their cases.

30:06Michael Popok:new podcasts that we've now launched under the Legal AF brand, like Unprecedented, about the United States Supreme Court that I do with Dina Dahl once a week, the Court of History with Sidney Blumenthal and Sean Wilentz to put everything as best we can into a historical context. Then think about becoming a member, a subscriber of the Legal AF YouTube channel. There it is. We've got a new paid membership, which is reasonably priced for those that want to throw their weight behind Legal AF. And then of course, we've got the Legal AF Substack. We're regularly in the top 10 in rising of all US politics or political Substacks.

30:46Michael Popok:We're doing two, I'm doing two lives, two live reports a day on Substack just to keep up and to curate what you need to know. So think about becoming a Legal AF Substack member as well. And then we've got But our sponsors, some of which have been with us from the very beginning of Legal AF six years ago, and some are new. Either way, they know our point of view. They are in favor of protecting our rule of law and democracy, and they appreciate our audience's First Amendment rights and point of view as well. And here's a word from our sponsors. Delete Me makes it easy, quick, and safe to remove your personal data online at a time when surveillance and data breaches are common enough to make everyone vulnerable.

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32:51Michael Popok:Chanel doesn't care about politics, but she has extremely strong opinions about her food. If this show ever runs late, it's because she refuses to let me talk about global affairs until her Smalls cat food is handled first. It's 2026. Do you still feed your cat like it's 1926? This podcast is sponsored by Smalls. Smalls is protein-packed cat food made with preservative-free ingredients you'd actually recognize delivered right to your door. And Cats.com names Smalls their best overall cat food. Last time I fed my cat Smalls, she destroyed the bowl and followed me around like I changed her life.

33:30Michael Popok:I even did a legit taste test. No, not that kind. Two bowls side by side, and she immediately chose Smalls. Her fur is softer, her breath is better, and she honestly handles the news better than I do. And Smalls is so confident your cat will love it. You can try it risk-free. They'll refund you if your cat won't eat it. Make 2026 your cat's healthiest year ever. For a limited time, because you are a legal AF listener, Get 60 % off your first order plus free shipping when you head to smalls.com slash legal AF. One last time, 60 % off your first order plus free shipping when you head to smalls.com slash legal AF.

34:11Michael Popok:And thank you to our sponsors. But now I am so honored to have the California Attorney General Rob Bonta join us. Attorney General Bonta, how are you this evening? Hey, Michael, doing great and better now that I'm with you. Yeah, I feel the same way. Although you broke my heart and those of many who watch, because I think there's been a public announcement about your immediate futures. Am I right that you've decided that you're not going to run for the California governorship? That's correct. I am running for re-election as California attorney general in these difficult, challenging times with so much on the line, so much at stake.

34:50I think my place is here on the front lines in this moment, battle tested and ready for whatever comes next to protect our people and build a legal fortress around them to protect their rights and freedoms. And this administration, as we have seen and we're about to talk about, has showed not only no signs of slowing down, but signs of escalation, of raising the stakes. Absolutely.

35:14Michael Popok:Glad that you, either decision would have been great for the American people and for the people of the state to California, but I'm so pleased and honored to have you here on the front lines, leading along with the 22 other Democratic attorneys general. I don't know if you got to see, I'm sure you've been following your colleague, Keith Ellison in Minnesota. We were all together in Phoenix recently for interviews. I had Keith on a couple of days ago. I'll have him back. You've pitched your own battles about the National Guard and other federalized troops of Donald Trump on the streets of California and successfully won that all the way up to the Supreme Court.

35:53Michael Popok:What just let's kick it off with that since it's so fresh. What's your observations about the new lawsuit that Keith has filed, sort of patterned over one that was filed in Illinois about ICE on the streets and the importance of the attorneys general in filing such lawsuits against the federal government? Yeah, I'm really proud of A.G. Ellison, A.G. Raul, my colleagues, my friends, proud to call them both in Illinois and in Minnesota, standing up and pushing back against the unlawful actions of President Trump. We have shown time and time again for California, it's been 54 times in less than a year, that when we fight, we win.

36:33When we stand against an injustice and we speak up and speak out and take action and go to court and hold this administration accountable to the law and to the facts, we win. And our people deserve that. And the people of Illinois and Minnesota should be very proud of their two AGs, just like I am, for fighting. And this is what we've done over the last, it hasn't even been a full year yet, coming up on a year, time and time again, in case after case, watching, monitoring, observing, tracking every action that this administration takes. and, of course, permitting and allowing, as we must, the administration to do things that are lawful, that are within his actual authority, but never, ever letting him do things outside of his authority, never allowing him to act unlawfully and hurt the people of our states.

37:19We've been a bulwark, a check. We are battle-tested on the front lines, in the trenches, meeting him every time he tries to cross the boundary and cross the line into unlawful action and pushing him back in to his actual given authority. And we're going to continue to do that. And, you know, he has a very difficult relationship with both the facts and the law, especially having heard his statements about sanctuary cities today. So we know we're going to be busy in the years ahead, but we're grateful for what we've accomplished. We wish we wouldn't. He didn't have to do it. But if sue the president because he's unlawful, we must then sue him.

37:54we will.

37:55Michael Popok:And I heard coming on the air that last time we were together, which was just a couple of weeks ago, we were talking about crossing the 50th case threshold. I've been told that I think today you filed your 54th. 54th today. And what is that case about? That's about the Trump administration's imposition of an improper condition on funding to states that requires those states to certify essentially the erasure of the existence of transgender, gender nonconforming, non-binary Americans, and to adopt a view of the law that is not the actual law. It's just this administration's improper, unlawful, frankly, inhumane, cruel, and wrong interpretation of what the law should be when it's not.

38:45And they're trying to impose conditions on us to shove a hateful agenda down our throat, and we won't stand for it. We won't allow it. So we sued in the District of Rhode Island today, multiple states, based on that condition of funding, saying that it's unlawful if violates the separation of powers, because the Trump administration cannot rewrite Title IX, and also the Administrative Procedures Act as well. And It poses a condition that's arbitrary and capricious and provides no rationale for why it's a different condition than the prior interpretation of Title IX. So multiple causes of action.

39:27But essentially, we are going after the Trump administration for unlawfully trying to attack transgender Americans.

39:34Michael Popok:And the timing is so perfect, given today's oral argument at the United States Supreme Court about Becky Pepper's attempt as a 15-year-old, started as an 11-year-old. She's the only openly transgender high school student in West Virginia. The entirety of the West Virginia legislative apparatus in governor and MAGA have all come after this poor girl. And today, argued by the American Civil Liberties Union, who's now collaborating with us on Legal AF, they hit the headwinds of the ultra right wing of the Supreme Court. As soon as you hear Kavanaugh crying again about coaching his daughter's middle school basketball game like he did during the confirmation hearing with those crocodile tears, you know you're in trouble.

40:23Michael Popok:uh you know and you know the facts they're trying to make it just about her and the facts are she took puberty blockers and she never went through uh adult uh she never went through boy puberty ever she is a transgender girl all she wants to do is like throw the shot put i mean and the other person that the other case the hecox case uh which is as far as i'm concerned mute because she's no longer in college and doesn't want to pursue the case any longer she didn't even make her ncaa team she um made her club team i i mean the numbers here ag bonta for people to see what a wedge issue and political pawn the trump administration and maga have made of this this this fragile group this disadvantaged group that has no political power has no protection i mean other than what you do uh you know they don't have like large groups of voters or people in congress we have one openly transgender person in Congress and this and that, you know, out of 500 ,000 NCAA student athletes, 10 are openly transgender.

41:27Michael Popok:And yet you see what, you know, it started with gays in the military and then gay marriage and then abortion. And then when they, you know, they either vanquished all of those or couldn't, or the American people said, no, we're in gay marriage. no we're okay with that they were welcome who can we pick on who can we exploit for political gain oh the transgender population it's hard to see and you know this uh but what what is inspiring to see is this young woman's courage in the face of so much cruelty from adults who are playing politics and targeting her and going after her and she just wants to be a member of the team and do the thing that she loves and be an athlete.

42:12And the lack of humanity and the cruelty in it. And, you know, as you mentioned, the numbers, I think it's 1 % of all student athletes across the country are transgender or less. But they try to use it as a wedge issue to attack and turn it into a political weapon. But I think these people need to check their humanity. Check it or find it? They have to find it. They checked it at the door. They need to do some difficult searching to find it.

42:44Michael Popok:Kavanaugh kept talking about what, oh, the poor girl at birth who won't be able to be on the team because she's going to get kicked out. I'm like, what about the transgender middle school student that wants to participate in sport? There's not enough transgender people to have it like a transgender league. Right. I mean, so so so they're just denied all of the benefits. So sociological and psychological benefits, emotional benefits of being in a team sport or on a sport because Kavanaugh creates a hypothetical about somebody who's been bounced from a team because, you know, some you know, they always have the imagery, you know, the Iranian boxer or the, you know, some ridiculous picture that goes up on the Internet.

43:32Michael Popok:that and they never focus on the 11 year old who just wants to like run cross country. Be part of the team, learn how to win, learn how to lose, learn how to, you know, reach a goal and work towards it with, with, with friends and teammates. I mean, I do team sports my whole life. My daughter is a professional athlete. She played professional soccer. My daughter-in-law is a professional soccer player. And that what you learn in sports and, you know, most people will never be professionals. And most of the lessons that you learn are just through participation, you know, working with your fellow students, your classmates, your teammates, and learning how to support them and help them when they're down and boost them when they're up and overcome adversity.

44:15and you know they're just really going out of their way with their cruelty to target children it's disgusting and gross to see adults do that and try to rationalize it uh you know from from the bench or from you know the governor's office or the legislature whatever it is it's it's hard to see it so and it just makes me stronger and makes me more committed more resolute um more immovable in my commitment to uh protect the law and and protect those who are victims of abuse

44:42Michael Popok:Sure we can't get you to be governor? Not this cycle. We'll see what the future holds. I would be honored to serve four more years as AG and do my best for the people here and across the country. Many of the cases I've learned from you and the other attorneys general are where you've been successful in making sure that funding, a lot of dollars at stake in a lot of your cases, funding that would have been, the fuel supply of funding that would have been cut off between the federal government through Donald Trump and the states and state programs that matter. And many of it, even though you're arguing on behalf of the blue states and you have no red state colleagues next to you shoulder to shoulder, ultimately can benefit them as well.

45:25Michael Popok:You just got a temporary restraining order in New York about child welfare. Why don't you talk to our audience a little bit about that case? Yeah, great case in terms of the success, terrible case in terms of what the Trump administration was trying to do, you know, starting the new year the way they ended it with lawlessness and cruelty, going after our most vulnerable Californians, trying to withhold $10 billion of funding from five states. Guess who they are? They're all blue states in New York, Illinois, California, Minnesota, and Colorado, all of with whom Trump has a beef and is disappointed that they didn't vote for him.

46:03And so he tried to withhold critical safety net funding, funding for childcare, funding for social services, funding for job training and employment, housing, food, emergency relief from children, from families, from seniors, from the disabled who need it, based on an unsubstantiated, empty, baseless allegation of fraud. And at the same time, asking for documents from each of these states to see if there, I presumably see if there is any fraud. So they have the conclusion first that there's fraud and they've taken the action to block all the funding,$10 billion worth, and to hurt vulnerable Americans in the process.

46:50And then they're going to start looking into whether or not there's any fraud, which there is no allegation, proof, evidence, shred of evidence of any fraud. They didn't even bother to suggest any. They just put out the phrase, just like they use waste, fraud, and abuse and use that as their justification to do anything they want without any facts to back it. So we moved for a temporary restraining order. And the next day we got one. And the court gave us complete temporary relief for two weeks while the preliminary injunction is being considered where the funding must flow and the request, a very unreasonable request for documents and interviews, all which realistically really couldn't be completed within the timeframe, nor should we have to go through it.

47:39That was blocked as well. So complete early victory in the case. As you know, a temporary restraining order requires the determination of likelihood of success on the merits and irreparable harm. And so we feel we're in a good place as this case begins with this early win and hopefully with more to come.

47:59Michael Popok:And that one, just the inside baseball thing, you got kind of an emergency duty judge to enter that temporary restraining order. That's how strong the papers were. But it then gets transferred over, I think, to Judge Broderick or another full-time judge to handle the case. Is that right? I think that's right. Yeah. And there's even been cases where, to give our audience hope, where the Trump administration has folded, where they've just withdrawn appeals and walked away from the fight over the money. Why don't you give an example of that that happened recently with one of your suits? Yeah, we will take a win in any form.

48:43It could be a temporary restraining order, a preliminary injunction, more and more permanent injunctions after trials or after summary judgment motions that consider all the facts. And then sometimes we get the confirmation or the affirmation at the appellate level and then even the Supreme Court. And sometimes the Trump administration just backs down. They raise the white flag. They throw in the towel. and they say, you got us, you win, we lose, we give up. And that happened today on an appeal on funding that the Trump administration tried to withhold, Department of Transportation funding that keeps planes in the air and cars on the road.

49:28We had one in the trial court below, based on this being an improper attempt to coerce California's policy when it comes to what the Trump administration calls sanctuary jurisdictions, and we call them pro-public safety and pro-community trust jurisdictions. And we got a court order below. They appealed, and then they indicated today that they're going to dismiss their appeal. They're giving up. They're not going to continue to push here. They lost. So we'll get that funding just as we got Department of Homeland Security funding that was also being leveraged by the Trump administration based on our what they call our sanctuary status.

50:08And just as we got Victims of Crime Act, VOCA funding, twice that the Trump administration tried to withhold, they gave up on that as well. That was another example that Victims of Crime Act funding where they raised the white flag and threw in the towel and gave up. So we'll take the W anyway. We get it not because it's a W, because it means we get the funding and the people, the victims of crime, the passengers on the road or in the air, the folks that could be victims of cybersecurity or terrorism are benefiting. And that's what we want. And that's what we want to deliver. That's what we got here.

50:41Michael Popok:And most of your cases, I mean, you're only a year in because we're only a year into the administration, which is not a long period of time for a life cycle of a case. But you've got permanent wins in like, I don't even know what the 25 out of the 54, something like that. You already have in the bank permanently not to be challenged ever again as you continue along in, let's say, the other 20 or 30 cases who need to be progressed further, some of which has been filed in the last month or two. So an extraordinary winning track record on behalf of the people of California and throughout the country.

51:16Michael Popok:And for those that are joining sort of in progress, I think it's important for them to know how closely the Democratic attorneys general work together. It's not just you alone. That's why there's so many attorneys general joining together and states joining together in these cases. Talk just briefly about, without giving away the trade secrets, briefly about how the coordination among all of you happen, both because of personal relationships that have been developed and your stabs about opposing the Trump administration where it's necessary. Yeah, the 23 Democratic attorneys general are working every day together on behalf of the people of our respective states, collectively the people of our nation, to hold the Trump administration accountable.

52:08So we're always sharing information, sharing intel, sharing legal insight, strategy, thoughts on suits to bring. One example is California was the first state where the National Guard was unlawfully deployed. and we met the Trump administration in court. And then the same thing happened in D.C., then in Illinois, then in Oregon. And we shared our information with all those states. We talked about, you know, we shared our briefs and we shared our thoughts and we shared our strategy and we shared what the federal government would argue. And, you know, I think that helped those other states. And we have been communicating and working together and planning and preparing and strategizing since before the election of President Trump, and then after his election and before his inauguration, and then every day since his inauguration.

53:00At the staff level and at the attorney general level, being in close contact, we feel that we are able to deliver more as a whole than some of our parts, and that we have created something special. We like each other, Michael. We like our fellow AGs. that we enjoy each other's company. And sometimes when the stakes are really high, you got to have some humor and some humanity as well. And we have all that. We have rapport with one another, with deep respect for one another. And we feel that we're all part of a team fighting on behalf of the people of our state, protecting democracy, the rule of law, rights and freedoms, in some really important battles with a lot on the line.

53:43Michael Popok:And that makes our audience feel a lot better knowing that there's that union, that collegiality, that you're all vibrating on the same frequency to protect their rights. You're running collectively the largest law firm dedicated to public interest in the country. And you're up against a depleted, woefully understaffed Department of Justice, which is getting smaller and shrinking by the hour. Not complaining about that. Right. You'll take it. you'll take it. And we're so pleased to have you here. Attorney General Rob Bonta for the state of California running for re-election at the midterms. And I'm glad he's not going anywhere.

54:30Michael Popok:I'm sure our audience is thrilled to have you here. And thank you for being here. And please come back and update us on the 55th case forward against the Trump administration. Will do. Hope to come back soon. Appreciate you so much, Michael. You too. Thank you. Thank you, Attorney General Bonta. And we are back. And thank you all for being here. Let me segue into the Federal Reserve Jay Powell lawsuit. No, prosecution. That's the wrong word. And how it's already backfired in less than 24 hours against Donald Trump. He had this in his hand. This shows you the mental collapse of Donald Trump that continues, you know, where he's busy, you know, somebody hands him a secret memo or note like Marco Rubio in a meeting with the oil executives.

55:22Michael Popok:Oh, hold on, Marco just sent me something. Hold on. They want to talk about Chevron. I have no idea what that means. You know, this is what we're watching. And when you're watching that in action, Donald Trump had this in his hand. Jay Powell was going to step down in May of this year, because that was when his term as chairperson was over. He may have even stepped down to leave the Board of Governors. His term for the entire Board of Governors runs until 2028. And he had a process, Trump, to pick somebody else. I don't like the process, including going to private equity and hedge funds in New York, trying to find people who are woefully unqualified to be macroeconomists to run the Federal Reserve and have never been a central banker before or anywhere on the Central Bank.

56:17Michael Popok:Like, why don't you take one of the presidents of one of the regional Federal Reserves? You know, why are you reaching into some small shop in New York to run, pardon me, everybody, to run the Federal Reserve? But he had a process and he was going to appoint somebody and nominate them in the next week or two. No, he had to do a final trolling of Jay Powell to get him back, obviously, for him being embarrassed in public at the construction site. When he went down there with Tim Scott, we've all seen the video. I don't need to play it again. Donald Trump has Tim Scott hand him another piece of paper.

56:51Michael Popok:Donald Trump loves being handed pieces of paper and showing them off. New York Times interview. It's like, a Colombist president's on the phone. You can stay. You know, he's so fucking nuts. Belongs in a home, not the White House. So, you know, Tim Scott hands it to him as well. well, you know, Jay, you're over by$2 billion. He said, sorry. Yeah, these are your own. This is from the Federal Reserve. I'm sorry, Mr. President, I'm not aware of that. That number doesn't seem right. Yeah, well, it's right here. It's one of your own pieces of paper. And Jay Powell takes it and puts on his readers and his cheaters, and he's got his hard hat on.

57:29Michael Popok:Neither of these two guys should be wearing hard hats, if you know what I mean. And he looks at it and he goes, this involves an entirely different project from five years ago. You've added on an entirely different project because they're renovating a hundred-year-old building, 200-year-old buildings. I'm talking about that have not been renovated since the 1930s, a little bit less than a hundred years. That means heating, air conditioning, electrical, lead contamination, asbestos contamination. You know, this is a sick building that people are working in. And he is taking it on post-COVID when construction prices have gone through the roof through logistics and during the Trump tariff era.

58:09Michael Popok:So of course it's gone over budget,$700 million. Donald Trump's ballroom doubled in price on the wreckage of the East Wing. Is it criminal? But he didn't like the fact that he added in the other building next door that was done five years ago for the total budget. So he announces, they let it leak, that the D.C. office of the prosecutor, Janine Pirro, has a grand jury issuing subpoenas to the Federal Reserve about the construction, the construction cost overruns, and whether Jay Powell lied under oath. Now we're back to the same thing. They went after James Comey for what we call a 1002 charge for lying under oath to Congress in response to questions from like Tim Scott again and other people about the cost of the development of the renovation.

59:07Michael Popok:so Donald Trump's like well let's just you know and then he's got his resident scent hound pit bull Bill Pulte the Nepo baby from the Pulte construction fortune in the south who runs Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac who goes after all Donald Trump's political enemies with mortgage fraud allegations to claim that there's some sort of fraud here part of that conspiracy so they do it But what they didn't expect, and they thought that, well, Jay's a very modest person, true. He's a very soft-spoken person, true. But you don't want to get his dander or his Irish up, as people like to say. And this very modest person did a very un-Jay Powell thing the night when this all leaked two days ago.

59:56Michael Popok:And they, in the Trump administration, miscalculated about the steely resolve of the Federal Reserve chairman picked by Donald Trump. who has been keeping our economy and navigating our economy through troubled waters created by Donald Trump for this year and since 2017. And they didn't think he would fire back and call out Donald Trump and speak to the financial markets and calm them at the same time and bring to his side, with a rallying cry, not only the central bankers around the world, more than 20 of them, joining together in a way they've never done before to support the integrity of the Federal Reserve, not only because they like Jay Powell, but because they need the United States as the standard bearer for the world's economies to not be undermined by Donald Trump.

1:00:52Michael Popok:They don't want the U.S. dollar undermined. They don't want the treasuries and the price of treasury bills and notes to be undermined as the U.S. debt is the largest in the world. And so they need to keep him in his seat. And shout out to the Maple Midas, shout out to Canada, as Canada, oft maligned, disrespected, degraded by Donald Trump's attacks, you know, disrespecting their investments in America, their investments in tourism, in capital, in real estate, in the trade that keeps our economy humming in rare earth minerals and natural resources and electricity and the rest. Leave it to Canada and the Canada's central bank to step forward and support J-PAL.

1:01:43Michael Popok:That's not all that supported J-PAL. The Republicans on the Senate Banking Committee, including outgoing but not outgoing fast enough, Senator Tillis is supporting Jay Powell. And I'll tell you what that means in terms of any opening like the chairmanship of the Federal Reserve. But I want you to see Jay Powell in action. Let me just play the part of his video where he says what this is really about. Let's play the clip. The renovation project. Those are pretexts. The threat of criminal charges is a consequence of Federal Reserve setting interest rates based on our best assessment of what will serve the public, rather than following the preferences of the President.

1:02:28This is about whether the Fed will be able to continue to set interest rates based on evidence and economic conditions, or whether instead monetary policy will be directed by political pressure or intimidation. I have served at the Federal Reserve under four administrations, Republicans and Democrats alike. In every case, I have carried out my duties without political fear or favor, focused solely on our mandate of price stability and maximum employment. Public service sometimes requires standing firm in the face of threats. I will continue to do the job the Senate confirmed me to do with integrity and a commitment to serving the American people.

1:03:10Thank you.

1:03:13Michael Popok:And look at the guy. He's wearing like a taupe suit, a tan suit and a maroon tie. It's a guy that if you pass them on the street, you wouldn't look twice. He runs, as the central banker, the world's largest and most important economy. Does it well. Doesn't need this shit, but takes public service seriously. And he's going to stay in his job. And he's not going to leave early, as you can tell, not with this shade having been put on him. And now the Senate Republicans that matter here are fighting back. And it's not just Murkowski and Collins, but it's others. It's Crapo in Idaho. It's Tillis on the Banking Committee.

1:03:57Michael Popok:Now, the banking committee in the Senate oversees the Federal Reserve. It's the committee that, with the advice and consent, that confirms or has to confirm a nominee. Okay? It's made up of 13 Republicans now and 11 Democrats. If you get one to switch, and Tillis has already said he will not vote to confirm anyone that Donald Trump puts up for the Federal Reserve, including the chairmanship position, until they end the investigation of Jay Powell, plain and simple. If he moves from 13 to 12 each, we've got an impasse. Somebody asked in the chat tonight, what happens then? What happens is Jay Powell stays in as chairperson because Donald Trump can't get another one confirmed.

1:04:45Michael Popok:He'll just extend his time. And he'll be the de facto chairperson. Now, so all Donald Trump had to do was shut his you-know-what mouth, which he's incapable of doing, and just let his hand play out. And he would have gotten exactly what he wanted. And ultimately, he may have even gotten that fourth seat of the seven on the Federal Reserve Board of Governors in order to take control ultimately of the Open Markets Committee and the interest rate setting mechanism of the Federal Reserve. Because the Federal Reserve only has one blunt force instrument at its disposal. Really, that's it. Interest rate setting.

1:05:27Michael Popok:That's it. And through that one dial, that one switch, it tries to create maximum jobs, low unemployment and low inflation, and tries to balance those two things with interest rates. So what Donald Trump miscalculated is how many of Senate Republicans and House Republicans would peel away from him and choose Jay Powell's side. And they have, because Donald Trump's time is running out here, and it's running short. And if the Epstein scandal taught us anything, it's that some MAGA have realized that their political fortunes in time horizon is longer than Donald Trump's. And they better start making some changes.

1:06:22I want to move on lastly and talk about the Mark Kelly lawsuit.

1:06:27Michael Popok:So Mark Kelly has been a senator for the last four or five years, had served this country honorably 25 years in the military, rising to the level of captain, 39 missions, I think, in battle as a naval aviator. He has every cluster and ribbon and medal that you can think of for that position. He was shuttle commander, I think, four times and the last flying of the Endeavor. His wife, Gabby Gifford, who many people think should be in the Senate herself, running for that position or for re-election, was shot in the head during a campaign 20 or more years ago and left brain damage. still alive, still vibrant, still fighting for gun control.

1:07:23Michael Popok:But this is the family. His brother is also an astronaut, naval aviator, and the whole thing. Pete Hegseth, after the video went out, in which about 20 different members of Congress who were also in the military, veterans and or in the intelligence community, they made a video reminding members, service people, that they have a constitutional oath to defend the Constitution and not to follow illegal orders and not to give up the ship. Why? Because we have an erratic, crazy president who's given out all sorts of crazy orders through Pete Hegseth, who used to be, before he became the Secretary of Defense, was on the junior varsity of Fox and Friends.

1:08:10Michael Popok:He wasn't even on the weekday edition. He was on the weekend edition and did the ball drop during the New Year's. And now he's your secretary of war. And they didn't like the fact that Senator Kelly participated in that statement about under the Nuremberg principles, you can't just follow orders that are illegal. We saw that with the Nazis, right? And so Pete Hegseth and Trump almost simultaneously, like in a call and response on social media, Trump went so far as to say that Mark Kelly should be hanged, hanged. George Washington would hang him. And that Pete Hegseth suggested in a, no, said it in a censure letter to Mark Kelly that he has potentially committed war crimes by making this video, participating in this video.

1:09:11Michael Popok:Mark Kelly is fired back with his own federal lawsuit to stop the censure, to stop any criminal charges, and to explain to the American people that his

1:09:27Michael Popok:legislative authority and powers, First Amendment rights and rights under the speech and debate privilege are being compromised on purpose by Donald Trump because Mark Kelly helps provide oversight to Donald Trump and his rogue and lawless administration, to the various committees that he's on, the Senate Armed Services Committee, the Senate Intelligence Committee. These are all committees that are looking at the National Guard being illegally deployed, the takeover of the Venezuelan oil fields by Donald Trump, the threats and saber rattling on places like Cuba and Greenland. This is all part of the oversight of our checks and balance.

1:10:10Michael Popok:It is in 250 years, we've never had a president go after a member of Congress, a senator, and try to chill his First Amendment speech, his legislative privilege, and powers of oversight. And he wants a federal judge to declare that. And I think he's right. And here's a clip from Senator Kelly talking about his lawsuit. You have now turned Pete Hegseth into a defendant where through this process, he's going to have to defend what he has done so far. And in my reading of the law, as your lawyer stated in this complaint, he has violated the law that he claims his action is based on. well Lawrence thank you for having me on I want to commend you for the great summary of the lawsuit and I also want to say hey I told these guys I told Donald Trump and I told Pete Hegseth that I'm not backing down I'm not going away this is much bigger than me I flew dozens of combat missions over Iraq and Kuwait got shot at nearly shot down multiple times I threw flew in space on the space shuttle four times.

1:11:27I've served this country for 25 years. I did not expect that after all of that service and then continuing my service in the United States Senate, that I would one day have to sue the secretary of defense for violating my constitutional rights, my rights of freedom of speech, but also due process and separation of powers rights. But, But, you know, this is this is much bigger than me. What I really worry about are the other veterans out there, you know, that don't have a platform like I do, don't have the right to speak on the Senate floor. Where are they going to be with this administration if they decide to speak out?

1:12:10So, you know, that's really the reason for my action today. I had to file this lawsuit because I need to be standing up for all Americans, not just myself.

1:12:22Michael Popok:and we're glad that he's doing that any one of these cases that i've talked about tonight would have been enough for an entire episode but i like i'll just give you an example like today in doing my programming for the legal af youtube channel and for midas i did a collective nine videos about independent stories that have happened in the last 24 hours in addition to that, I worked in, in the last 24 hours, an interview with Senator Warner about what he's doing from the Senate side and on the intelligence community and as part of the Gang of Eight that's supposed to be consulted by the Trump administration about all things foreign and global, and an interview today with Richie Torres, the representative from New York, about some new legislation that he's proposing.

1:13:10Michael Popok:My point is there is a lot of information that is out there. You see how the Trump administration, left to their own devices, their natural instinct is to lie to the American people, even about video facts that you and I and the rest of our audience can see with our own eyes. And they tell us that what we see is not true. And here is the new narrative we want you to adopt in order to hold on and to understand what's going on and to be able to debate with your friends and your family and your loved ones and steal yourself for the election. You have to be, I think, on channels like Minus Touch, on Legal AF YouTube channel, watching our content here on the Legal AF sub stack and becoming members there.

1:14:00Michael Popok:Because there's just, even for me, and I'm a professional, not only am I a professional lawyer for 35 years, But I'm a professional political and legal commentator. I've been doing this for a long time before your very eyes with Midas and Legal AF. And it's hard for me to catch up, which is why we have, of course, other commentators and other people and playlists that help us capture it all. But at any given day, today alone, I'm just talking today, there were no less than seven different court filings that I thought mattered. Some didn't make the cut because, you know, I got to, otherwise the show would be two or three hours long.

1:14:42Michael Popok:If you want the show to be two or three hours long, put it in comments and I'll talk to my producers. But seven filings and then all the other things that aren't filings, you know, like the developments in cases or Department of Justice senior leadership standing up finally to the Trump administration about under the banner of honoring the memory of Renee Good, who got up in the morning on January 7th and never came home because she was a First Amendment protester about and a patriot. and was shot and killed by federal forces that are allied with Donald Trump. And they're Americans too, by the way.

1:15:27Michael Popok:I'm not saying everybody in ICE and Border Patrol and law enforcement is bad, quite the opposite. But you've got to start thinking about the administration that you're working for, the boss you're working for, like Kristi Noem and Pam Bondi and Donald Trump and the others. And you have to look yourself in the mirror every day. Now, I know it's tough because you have your own families and you have your own career goals and you have your own pensions to think about. But sometimes, you know, I've taken enough career leaps in my own life where I wasn't sure there was, you know, a lily pad after I took the leap because I wanted to accomplish something such as this.

1:16:08Michael Popok:when I made the decision about a year ago to leave the full-time practice of law. I still do a practice. We've got the Popak firm. We do a lot of work for people around the country and personal injury and the like, but kind of the day-to-day running my cases the way I had in the past to devote myself full-time to this. And you see why. It just, I mean, it would be professional malpractice for me not to be prepared for the show, not to do the videos that we do, because I feel this is the moment where only working together, only working together as citizens, as people around the world and in the United States, can we together bend the arc of history towards justice.

1:16:54Michael Popok:And we've got to do that working together. And I'm glad you're here on The Intersection. Thank you for being such fervent supporters of us. We'll see you next Tuesday. In the meantime, also remember Wednesdays and Saturdays are the Legal AF podcast. And then, of course, we've got all of our great work over on the Legal AF YouTube channel. So until my next report, shout out to the Midas Mighty and the Legal AFers.

1:17:33Michael Popok:including a daily roundup that I do call, wait for it, Morning AF. What else? All the other contributors from Legal AF are there as well. We got some new reporting. We got interviews. We got ad-free versions of the podcast and hot takes. Where? Legal AF on Substack. Come over now to free subscribe.

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