The Intersection with Michael Popok Full Episode - 10/21/2025

25:50Michael Popok:It helps. Keeps us on the air. It's a way to defend our independent commentary and show your love and support. It's like the hummingbird theory. I'm not quite sure what exactly keeps these things up in the rankings, but this will help. We're trying to break into the top 100 of audio podcasts for news. We're already in the top 100 of all YouTube podcasts. This is all a compliment to you. I'm not taking credit for it. I do my part from the content standpoint, but I don't take my credit. I don't take credit for that. Then we've got, if you want to become a full card-carrying member of the Legal AF community, we've got Legal AF YouTube.

26:26Michael Popok:Legal AF YouTube, let me just brag for a minute, is on fire right now. We've had more views in the last two weeks, in the last two days than we ever had ever in our life. We're about to cross 900 ,000 subscribers. We just crossed 330 million views of our work. And that's, again, a testament to you. Show your love for Legal AF YouTube. Hit the free subscribe button. That's all you got to do. And then set the reminders. And we'll continue to bring you the contributors, the new content, and the interviews that you've come to love and expect. Then slide over to Legal AF Substack, where for$6.77 a month.

27:03Michael Popok:You hear that number? sounds almost made up. $6.77 a month, you can become a full-fledged paid member of Legal AF. Some amazing benefits. You can only get that way and it helps keep the lights on, helps keep the editors paid, helps keep the content coming to you. That's how this works. And this is how you can help us in that way. So Legal AF sub stack and for live reporting as well, which I think you'll very much enjoy. And then, you know, we've got my law firm, the Popak Firm. We'll put up some information about it right now. That sits at the intersection of justice and our community. I'm representing hundreds and hundreds of people.

27:44Michael Popok:And we get contacted by 5 ,000 people a week from our community looking for help in personal injury. So if you've been injured, contact the Popak Firm. Go on my website. You'll see all the different ways. 1-877-POPOC-AF. I made it easy for all of us. Or thepopocfirm.com. Live callers 24-7 and se habla espanol. So let's take a break for our sponsors of The Intersection. I'm officially obsessed. This is my Lola blanket. And I'm telling you, it's not just a blanket. It's a full-on experience. The first time I wrapped myself in this thing, I audibly said, oh my God, it's insanely soft, like next level soft.

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30:26Michael Popok:Welcome back to The Intersection. Let's dive into the James Comey story. Former FBI director has now filed two motions, one to disqualify Lindsay Halligan. And that's going to go to a different judge than the judge Namcoff, who's presiding over the case in the Eastern District of Virginia. It will go to another judge because if they're right about the disqualification, because Lindsay Halligan was illegally appointed, then the judges of the Eastern District of Virginia pick her successor. So it'll go to a different judge somewhere else in Virginia or maybe North Carolina. That one's relatively easy.

31:06Michael Popok:the statute under which she was appointed only allows for one appointment per attorney general. So she only gets one pick. She picked Eric Siebert. Donald Trump didn't like him, even though he was a conservative Republican, because he wouldn't indict Letitia James and he wouldn't indict James Comey. So he fired him. Well, that was your one. Unless you get a permanent nominee. You know, the goal here, let's not forget the goal here. The goal here is to have a permanently confirmed U.S. attorney in 93 federal districts, not to have all these games being played with acting interim and interim acting and special attorney appointed and temporary attorney.

31:50Michael Popok:It's because Donald Trump puts up hack, MAGA, unqualified people who even his own party won't support. So then he's left with all of these gymnastics to try to get the Alina Habas and the Lindsay Halligans put into a chair for some short duration and for a defined purpose. Let's be frank. The defined purpose for Lindsay Halligan is to do that which career prosecutors wouldn't do, prosecute Donald Trump's political critics. I don't think she cares about getting confirmed. I'm not even sure she thinks she'll ever be put up to be confirmed. And so she won't be. But in the meantime, she'll get her indictments unless Pat Fitzgerald and James Comey get their way and she is disqualified because she's the second person to be put in by Pam Bondi, and Pam Bondi only has one to choose from.

32:39Michael Popok:And then it goes to the district court judges of the Eastern District of Virginia. That's got to be cited quickly. I mean, the whole case is quickly. The judge said a January 5th or January 6th start to the trial in 2026. So that's going to go quickly. And then on top of it, so probably the next 20 days, we're going to get a ruling on that. And then they filed a motion against the entirety of the indictment for vindictive and selective prosecution, which is sort of what it sounds like. Using the animus of Donald Trump against James Comey, which is legion, started in 2018, right after he fired him, all the way through today, to say that there's the animus and here's the prosecution.

33:20Michael Popok:You put them together, You got vindictive prosecution. And it doesn't matter what Lindsey Halligan thinks. It's not Lindsey Halligan's animus. She's just the stalking horse, as the case law says. And the true bidding is being done. She's taking direction from the chief legal officer of America, Donald J. Trump. So they lay out all the case law. They lay out all the attacks on James Comey and all the reasons Donald Trump hates him to make out the case. You can make it out by actual vindictive prosecution showing animus that a reasonable person would notice, or you can do it by presumptive vindictive prosecution or presumptive animus, and then the burden shifts to the government to prove that what they did was on the up and up.

34:02Michael Popok:Selective prosecution says nobody's ever been prosecuted for what James Comey's been prosecuted for in the history of the Eastern District of Virginia. They can't even get the indictment right. The indictment says it has to do with an exchange in 2020 on September 5th between Ted Cruz and James Comey, where Cruz fumbled and effed up the question. So already you've got a perjury problem. You've got to have a clean question and a clean answer. That's not true. Not a fumbled question. You know, Cruz said, do you stand by your testimony about the Clinton administration? He meant the Clinton investigation.

34:42Michael Popok:Hillary was never elected. And he says, I do. Because in 2017, in response to a question by Chuck Grassley, he said, I never leaked any information about Trump or Clinton to the Wall Street Journal, nor did I authorize it. Do you still stand by that about the Clinton administration? Yes. But that can't be perjury. So they point that out in the indictment and that no self-respecting prosecutor would bring this kind of case. So you got all that going on. Then just the day before to pay them back for trying to disqualify Lindsay Halligan. The government buries in the bottom of a Sunday night filing and says, well, we're going to release documents, but we have a problem, Your Honor.

35:24Michael Popok:That guy over there, Pat Fitzgerald, the lawyer for James Comey, he used to be the U.S. attorney in Illinois. He was James Comey's lawyer back in 2017 and 2018. And James Comey made seven memos and he sent the seven memos to lawyers to get legal advice, right? the sacrosanct bond between lawyer and client. And so, yes, he was sent that information. Now, at the time, this is the part they leave out because they say in the paper to the judge to try to defame Pat Fitzgerald, he got confidential classified information. He might not be able to stay in this case. Pat Fitzgerald fired back and said, let's make this clear.

36:01Michael Popok:There were seven memos written by my client. I was his attorney at the time and he wanted legal advice. The FBI director did not classify anything in there. And he's the first classification person as being classified. About nine or 10 days after the memos were sent to me, the Trump FBI upgraded, upclassified the memos after the fact. So when I got it, they weren't classified. and I didn't leak it to anybody. I kept them to give my client advice. So that's going to go exactly nowhere by the Trump administration, but they want to do a bunch of whataboutism, hoping the judge will make some sort of Solomonic decision.

36:46Michael Popok:Well, we've got two equally good faith filings about disqualifications of the prosecutor and the defense lawyer. Well, I'll just deny them both. That's not going to happen. Judge Nakmanoff is really smart. He's a Biden appointee and he was a former federal public defender. He knows his way around the Eastern District of Virginia the way Lindsey Halligan doesn't. Or as somebody once pointed out, the office services team in the courthouse knows more about that courthouse and how it works than Lindsey Halligan. So that was a good set of filings by Comey. And then that brings us to Alina Haba. It must.

37:30Michael Popok:Alina Habba was also illegally appointed to be the U.S. Attorney of New Jersey. And a criminal defense team representing a drug dealer filed a motion several months ago to get Alina Habba disqualified. And anything she touched to be declared void, including their indictment. It actually got to a judge that was assigned outside of New Jersey, same problem as before. And the Middle District of Pennsylvania federal judge ruled against Alina Habba. goes up to the Third Circuit Court of Appeals, sits in Philadelphia over things involving New Jersey and other states. And in that one, we had a three-judge panel, two Bush and one Obama.

38:11Michael Popok:And the Bush senior status judges took over. And they grilled the crap out of Mr. Whitaker representing the Department of Justice. Now, Alina Hava lied to the American people afterwards. words. And she said she was defending at an oral argument. She didn't say a word, just like Lindsay Halligan never says a word in court. Alina Habba, last time I ever saw her operate was at the Second Circuit Court of Appeals about E. Jean Carroll. And that went terribly. She got her head handed to her. She got told that she didn't properly raise the immunity issue in the sex abuse case and sit down. Let me play you a clip of the judge at oral argument, which we had up on Legal AF as a live recording that you can get right now.

39:01Michael Popok:Let's play the clip so people can see we're bringing the receipts here on the intersection. The first assistant is absolutely a political appointee. And I think that is an extremely odd result. But there's language in 3345 that would reference experience for the person 90 days within the prior 365 days. So it's hard for me to see when you look, when I look at the total section itself, because it's, you know, it's, it's not the best and most clearest statute that I've ever read. I'll, I'll grant you that. There's some confusion in it. But it does say to me that Congress had a very specific intent.

39:51They wanted an experienced person to be that acting officer.

39:55Michael Popok:Now, my prediction is the Third Circuit Court of Appeals, at least two to one, if not three zero, is going to find that Alina Haba and her and her masters, her her bosses, her her leaders there, her client illegally appointed her, too. Because as Judge Smith outlined, let me get let me let me go over all the different ways you violated the appointments clause and the confirmation clause for the Senate. okay you pulled her nomination and then you made her the number two you fired the person that the court put in and then we didn't extend her her 120 day term after it expired so you try to do end run around bring her up through the deputy attorney general the deputy uh u.s attorney position and then made her a special attorney all because we wouldn't let you do it under the statute.

40:48Michael Popok:Now, a major issue that has come up in the disqualification and at the Third Circuit is how that statute works. And wouldn't you know it, Sam Alito, now on the U.S. Supreme Court, when he was a young lawyer in the White House, the Office of Legal Counsel for Reagan, he said, in support of what Comey has written, in support of the motion against Alita Haba, that you only get one pick, one pick, and you don't get two if you're the attorney general. And then it goes to the federal judges of that district to vote for the person that they want. Which brings us to Lindsay Halligan. Nothing says, I am lonely.

41:34Michael Popok:I don't have friends. I don't know what I'm doing. And I'm going to reach out to a lawyer, reach out to a reporter without telling them that it was off the record and start texting with them or on a Signal app, which I think is disappearing, start texting them about confidential information about the Letitia James prosecution. It was so weird that Anna Bauer, who's going to be a regular on Legal AF, I'm sure, hopefully she'll come back in brief, was the reporter for Lawfare, who Lindsey Halligan knew, and starts to write her right after she's triggered by a couple of social media posts by Anna, in which she's reporting on the New York Times, disclosing information that undermines the indictment against Letitia James, that a grand niece for Letitia James testified to a grand jury that she was living in this$118 ,000 modest clapboard house in Virginia, that sometimes Letitia James visited it, and that she never paid rent.

42:38Michael Popok:So how did she violate some covenant with her bank that's basically out of business, by the way? They already sold the loan to another entity. How did they commit fraud when they said they were going to use it as a second home, which she's using it as a second home, and she's not going to rent it out. She's not renting it out. She's letting people live there, which she's allowed to do, and expressly allowed to do over a year. Well, Lindsay Halligan didn't like that. So she uses the Signal app. Remember that relatively unsecure platform with disappearing messages that Mike Waltz, the national security advisor at the time, now I think he's the ambassador to Iceland.

43:13Michael Popok:I'm not making it up. He accidentally added Jeffrey Goldberg from the reporter, editor-in-chief of the Atlantic magazine to a chain including J.D. Vance and Marco Rubio, Stephen Miller and Tulsi Gabbard to start talking about bombing the Houthis in Yemen to open up the trade port, the trade shipping lanes. Remember that? It was all the scandal. And they were using Signal with the disappearing messages. Well, she uses it again. They didn't learn her lesson. So she reaches out. And that's the article that Anna Bauer writes, which is the title of her piece, which is, hi Anna this is Lindsay and then a series of text messages well let me let Anna put it in her own words with a great interview I just did of her that's up on Midas Touch today let's play the clip the top prosecutor there and and then one day out of the blue I get a message from her or someone purporting to be her which I didn't believe at first you know I thought it was a troll and it turns out it really was her because she was able to tell me where we first met, who she was with and then we confirmed that it was her by obtaining her phone number which connected to the discussion and the Justice Department eventually confirmed it.

44:34Michael Popok:So to be clear, when you woke up that day to her text message, you're not planning to write an article about Lindsey Halligan particularly and some of her prosecutorial work on Letitia James. So when she later says, I didn't know there was a story, there wasn't a story. The story is her communicating with you, right? Right, and I want to be very clear here, Michael, because there's a lot of context here about how relationships between reporters and prosecutors work. So a few things that people who maybe aren't familiar with that context and just like how unusual this is and why this is even a story.

45:15I think it's important to keep these things in mind. So one is that it is normal for prosecutors and journalists to speak to each other. You know, it's the kind of thing that that's how reporting happens, you know. So that's not strange. But there are a few things that are really abnormal here. One is that it's the sitting United States attorney who's one of the most high-profile prosecutors in the country, who's already under immense scrutiny because of the circumstances in which she was put into this job and the cases that she is pursuing against Letitia James and James Comey. The other is that she is reaching out to me, who, you know, it seemed that she was reaching out to me about these tweets I wrote that was summarizing.

46:06But finally, nothing at no point did she say that we were off the record. And for people who don't know what that means, everyone who is a public figure knows very well that when you engage with the media, you can set at the beginning the basis on which you wish to speak. One way that you can do it is say, hey, I'd like to go off the record. And there has to be an agreement with the reporter that that is the basis on which you speak. And then they can't publish anything that you speak about in that off the record conversation. But if there's no agreement at the outset, the assumption is that you are speaking on the record and that everything that you say is fair game.

46:51And no backseat and no backseat. And there's no takeseat backseat. It doesn't work where you can retrospectively as a source say to a reporter, oh, hey, bye.

47:02Michael Popok:So. I don't know where to start. You've got an incompetent. Well, what did you what did Donald Trump expect? This is he had to expect this. She's inexperienced. She's never been a prosecutor. She's never really been in federal court. She was a fender bender lawyer in Florida seven or eight years out. Never been a federal law clerk. I'm telling you, the person that empties the waste paper basket in the courthouse, in the courtroom and in her own office in the Eastern District of Virginia, once proud prosecutor's office, knows more than she does. So, of course, she violated policy. She didn't call the public affairs office for the Department of Justice.

47:40Michael Popok:She didn't clear communicating. And then she panicked when Bowers wrote to the Department of Justice saying, I got a long text message, Jane, about Letitia James' prosecution from Lindsay Halligan, who I confirmed was Lindsay Halligan, because I asked her for the secret password. Where did we meet and who were you with? And she wrote back, the person Lindsay Halligan wrote back, I met you at the Breakers Hotel with Jim Trustee, the lawyer. Bingo, we're in. And the Department of Justice said, you're just doing tattletale reporting. Tattletale reporting? And then Lindsay Halligan says, everything I just told you nine days ago, that backsees, backsees, that's all off the record.

48:20Michael Popok:That's not how that works, Lindsay. You know that. You should know that now. And I didn't know you were writing a story. She wasn't writing, for God's sake, she wasn't writing a story, Anna Bauer. She was on the recipient end of your signal chat. That is the story. And the disappearing messages, I guess you've never heard of screen grabs before. It's just, you got to laugh at some point, don't you? Now let's turn to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals. So much going on there at the Ninth Circuit. We just got a new ruling, two to one, as we expected, based on the Oregon filing by Judge Immergut to stop the mobilization of the National Guard in Portland, because it was based on stale information, things that barely happened in June, certainly were not happening in September, when Donald Trump decided to embarrass Oregon and send in the troops and federalize them.

49:23Michael Popok:Now, I knew from the oral argument, and we put it up on Legal AF on the YouTube under the live playlist, that it was not going to go well. I mean, there's an old joke I've created. How many Trumpers, Trump judges does it take to screw up a constitutional republic? Two. And there were two Trumpers that were on there against the Oregon and against ultimately Judge Imrigan. And the two Trump judges, there was one Clinton appointee. The Clinton appointee and her dissent said there were not the grounds for Donald Trump under a statute called 12406 to commandeer the National Guard of Oregon and to commandeer it and to mobilize it.

50:07Michael Popok:And she worried about the slippery slope. She worried and she invited an en banc review, which means more judges in the Ninth Circuit taking a look at it. And she invited that in the way she wrote her dissent. She went through a timeline of all the events that were in the record. This date, 20 people showed up, low energy. This date, nine people showed up, low energy, wearing costumes. So I'm not wearing any clothes at all. And this is how Portland was demonstrating. Sure, there were some people that set fire to a car. Yes, there were some people that may or may not have been armed. There were some people that put a pole and a bike rack across certain intersections.

50:53Did it stop fundamentally the federal government and

50:57Michael Popok:Donald Trump from executing the federal laws with regular forces? No. Did it stop his capture of migrants without due process? No. Did it stop their detention and detention centers? No. this is the fundamental basis. But to the two MAGA Trumpers who were appointed by Donald Trump back in the first term, anything he says goes. In fact, one of them in their concurrence said, he gets to call rebellion and we can't do anything about it. What was the rebellion in Portland, Oregon? Have you seen the people of Portland, Oregon? Have you watched Portlandia with Fred Armisen? I was watching it. I've been there.

51:37Michael Popok:I thought it was a documentary. These are very peace loving people dressed in chicken suits and giant penis suits and frog suits. Now they're getting pepper sprayed and the rest on the streets of Portland. Is it stopping Donald? This is this is the question. Is it stopping Donald Trump from executing the laws with his normal federal forces? The answer is no. Law enforcement is doing their job. So that's going to go up on an en banc appeal. In fact, two judges of the Ninth Circuit have already said they'd vote for en banc. Now, once they vote, which means that I think a majority of the 20 plus judges in the Ninth Circuit have to say, yeah, we should have en banc.

52:22I mean, if they get over that, and that's going to be briefed tomorrow, then they create a special en banc panel of 10 judges of the Ninth Circuit with the chief judge on top, 11 total, who then vote.

52:36Michael Popok:Majority vote wins. Same thing's going to happen in California. In fact, things happened in Oregon that helped California in their appeal and their future en banc. In fact, I had Rob Bonta, the attorney general of the great state of California with me, great honor, on No Kings Day in California, in San Diego, as missiles and ordnance was being fired over the five, as they say, at Camp Pendleton. And I had Rob Bonta. And here's what he had to say about the impact on his case. in California that the federal government would suffer irreparable harm, that it was absolutely necessary that they had these troops on the ground in California to protect federal interests, to protect federal buildings and property.

53:24And they were so important that when there was an opportunity to send them to another state and away from California and Los Angeles, they sent the vast majority of them. They sent 200 to Oregon and they sent some to Illinois as well. And we called out that hypocritical action to the court with an additional filing and presentation to the court saying, if these National Guard are so necessary, if the federal government will suffer irreparable harm, then why are they being sent out of state and no longer here in California? And I think it speaks for itself. It's a very compelling argument. And it was a gift in the in the courts.

54:04And we have shined a light on it to the judges to make sure that they consider this action when they make their decision.

54:10Michael Popok:So the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, I think we're headed for the en banc. We'll see what happens. We'll see how it impacts California, because that case is still going on as we watch what happens at the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals related to the Illinois mobilization. All these things are separate. We don't have a final ruling, except we're still waiting for the United States Supreme Court to make a decision based on an emergency application by Donald Trump to the Supreme Court as to whether the Seventh Circuit stopping him from mobilizing the National Guard was right or wrong. We're going to get a ruling out of the Seventh Circuit.

54:47Michael Popok:Well, we're going to get a ruling out of the Supreme Court any minute now. They're either going to block the Seventh Circuit and let Donald Trump deploy while they're working out the niceties of his appeal, or they're not. and that will have a domino effect, cascading effect on all the other cases in all the other states. And we'll cover it right here. I'm so pleased you're here with me at the intersection. Support our sponsors. Become a full-fledged member of the intersection community. I don't have a name for that. I'm going to set it up here in comments. If you want me to give a name to the audience, like the legal AFers and the Midas Mighty, should we be the intersectionists?

55:23Michael Popok:I don't know. More creative types than me can put something down in comments. We'll have a contest. I guess the first vote in the contest is, do we need a name at all? The second vote, and second one is, if we do need a name, what is that name? Years ago, Ben branded people that followed me or liked me as Popakians. Not sure I like that too much, but, you know, it is an option. If you want to support what we do here, let's continue to show some love to the intersection. Go over to the audio podcast on Spotify and on Apple. Leave a five-star review and comment, and let's try to get the reviews up.

56:05Michael Popok:I think we got 200, 220 reviews. We're trying to get to 1 ,000. I think that's the magic number or a magic number. Let your friends know about it here. We broke in for the second time to the top 100 of all podcasts, regardless of what type of podcast in the YouTube weekly rankings. Let's do that here. Intersection audio there. People know me, hopefully, from the 40 or so videos I do, and as the editor-in-chief of Legal AF YouTube channel. I do my work 14, 15 videos on Midas. I do another 20, 30 videos over on Legal AF. We try to bring you the newsmakers, the lawyers, the law firms at that intersection of law and politics over on Legal AF YouTube.

56:48Michael Popok:I got 12 amazing contributors. I think you're really going to like the work then. And then finally, the icing on the cake, the cherry on the sundae is Legal AF Substack. And wait for this number. For$6.77 a month, that's less than a Starbucks special coffee. Will overwhelm you with material and interesting commentary, analysis, writing, video, commercial-free versions of things over on the Legal AF Substack and the Legal AF Substack Live. So consider becoming a member today. Thank you for being here. Appreciate all that you do to help us to continue to grow our pro-democracy channels. Shout out to the Midas Mighty and the Legal AFers.

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